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Last updated on July 27th, 2017 at 12:53 pm
Here are a few examples of French overreaction to Hurricane Katrina:
“This tragic incident reminds us that the United States has refused to ratify the Kyoto accords. Let’s hope the US can from now on stop ignoring the rest of the world. If you want to run things, you must first lead by example. Arrogance is never a good adviser!”
“Bush had already been slow to react when the World Trade Center collapsed. Four years later, he was no quicker to get the measure of Katrina – a cruel lack of leadership at a time when this second major shock for 21st century America is adding to the crisis of confidence for the world’s leading power and to international disorder. As happened with 9/11, the country is displaying its vulnerability to the eyes of the world.”
“Katrina has shown that the emperor has no clothes. The world’s superpower is powerless when confronted with nature’s fury.”
In light of recent events, readers are invited to re-write those quotes. So how is France coping with foreign coverage of its ongoing suburban uprising?
The Foreign Ministry said it was concerned that foreign media coverage was exaggerating the situation.
“I don’t have the feeling that foreign tourists in Paris are in any way placed in danger by these events,” ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei said, adding that officials were “sometimes a bit surprised” by the foreign coverage.
At least he didn’t describe the coverage as a horrifying fraud.
- Trains between airports and the city were attacked.Does that not mean foreign tourists could be in danger?Posted by crash on 2005 11 05 at 09:44 AM • permalink
- o/t A concert called SEDITION will be held in Sydney by a “coalition” of comedians and “commentators”.Participating will be Max Gillies,Gerry Connolly,Wil Anderson,Andrew Denton and co-host Wendy Harmer.Don’t know about Connolly but the others are all heavily involved with or identified with the A.B.C.
- This has all been blown out of proportion. Even as we speak, the French government is organizing teams of Anger Management specialists to return calm to the agitated areas. The next priority, a national commission to find out “why they hate us”.Posted by Mystery Meat on 2005 11 05 at 12:36 PM • permalink
- President John Kerry, voted unanimously to the presidency in the last U.S. election against G. W. Bush, has used the enormous prestige of his overwhelming mandate, and his facility with the french language, to urge France to follow the lead of his administration here in the United States and negotiate a two-state policy with the local Muslim population. “I would urge restraint and avoidance of a continuation of the cylcle of violence. We have done so in the U.S. by unilaterally withdrawing from Detroit and all of Illinois and have succeeded in obtaining a truce while turnig our eyes away from the continued shelling of Washington. We have learned a great deal from the great country of France, but we have much to teach.”
- BBC World News (Sat 6 Nov)
In France, ‘riots’ are also ‘disturbances’ and ‘outbreaks of unrest’. (I’m feeling a little restless myself.)
Much attention drawn to daylight ‘peace marches’ calling for ‘calm’ before the ‘young immigrant men’ come out to play.
The violence and vandalism now spreading to other French cities are described as the ‘anger of the Parisian suburbs being adopted across France’. The ‘symbol’ of this anger is ‘flames’. Now that’s what I call a demonstration! The daylight people – pictured clomping glumly between burnt-out car shells – need to brush up on their symbolism.
- “This tragic incident reminds us that the French have refused to ratify the Iranian Jew Reduction Protocols. Let’s hope the French can from now on stop ignoring the Jew problem of the world. If you want to burn things, you must first lead by example. Arrogance is a good adviser!”
“Chirac had already been slow to react when Israel built the wall of hate and intolerance. Two years later, he was no quicker to get the measure of how the wall of hate has symbolized Jewish sovereignty towards it’s peace loving Palestinian neighbors – a cruel lack of leadership at a time when this second major shock for 1st century Eurabia is adding to the crisis of confidence for the world’s leading Islamic colonial power and to international Mainstream Jew Media disorder. As happened with the fall of the Sweden, the country is displaying its non hijab wearing Jew head to the eyes of the world.”
“Islam has shown that the emperor has no clothes. The world’s Jews are powerless when confronted with Islams fury.”
France’s Minister for Employment, Social Cohesion and Jew Relocation Jean-Louis Borloo Reports that the JRP ( jew reduction protocals) will pass in the next few weeks pending Chirac’s approval.
“I don’t have the feeling that foreign tourists in Paris are in any way placed in danger by these events,” ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei said, adding that officials were “sometimes a bit surprised” by the foreign coverage.
Whereupon he was helicoptered out to the Charles de Gaulle to form part of the new government-in-exile based in Quebec…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 05 at 01:28 PM • permalink
- Liberte! Egalite! Fraternite! Caliphate!
Le Francais doit terminer leur occupation illegal de la Rive Gauche!
Prendre d’assaut le Bastille!
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2005 11 05 at 01:50 PM • permalink
- In a little noticed news report, Suha Arafat has refused Chirac’s request for another bribe -OOPS- loan, this time aimed at disrtibuting some of her billions to welfare for the Muslim young in order to help end the riots. Ms. Arafat replied, as before, she is in favor of suicide bombing and would permit her children to partake of this pleasure but she is now too busy packing her bag for Ibiza.
- “These tragic incidents reminds us that France has refused to integrate its Islamic population. Let’s hope France can from now on stop ignoring the dangers of ghettoization. If you want to keep an undeserved seat on the Security Council, you must first act like a grown-up country. Arrogance is never a substitute for competence!”
- Rioting in France?..Oh well!Posted by starboardside on 2005 11 05 at 02:05 PM • permalink
If by “foreign coverage” they mean the U.S., they needn’t worry. We’ve hardly been told anything at all about it. God forbid the Exalted Blow-Dried of New York should publish anything negative about their beloved France.
But hey, we’re getting plenty of coverage of the small anti-Bush riots in a tony section of Argentina!
- I just wish everyone in the States would stop using the word “suburb” for these hellholes. It’s misleading to Americans. In the US, the suburbs are the nice places for people with a decent buck. When talking about the French suburbs, we need to translate it to “ghetto”, or more accurately, “projects.”
- Today’s headlines say that nearly 900 vehicles have been burned.
Some enterprising young French blogger will then produce photos of dozens of buses parked, fueled, and unscorched.
Recriminations in the ‘blogosphere about who should have gotten those buses to where they would have been useful will follow.
- Look! It’s a kitty-fada!!
Sorry, Frog, if in the midst of all the awfulness, we find something funny!
- Ring ring
“ALLO, Allo RENE hre”
“Hi we are two American tourists. we would like to stay the night at your hotel. Is that Ok?”
“Of course bien sur! there is no problem, only with the odd car. but you can park in our carpark. it is free”
“What car problem Monsieur Rene?”
Well a few cars have mysteriously caught fire. the police are looking into it but they have no answers”
“You mean someone is setting cars on fire?”
“NON non not at all monsieur l’americain, our local science teacher, Mr Said, he says it is the phenomenon known as “spontaneaous combustion . Very rare and unlikely to happen again”
“Very Well. Book us in. we’ll see around 6pm.”
“Mamselle FIFI. when the Americans arrive make sure you do not mention hurricane Katrina to them. it was a shsmeful cover up and they do not want to be reminded about it”
“Oui oui mon gros cheri, do you want me to use the feather duster again?”
- In further news, the USNS Apache was sent to tow the Charles de Gaulle to Quebec after her propellers fell off again.
- France counsels that “arrogance is never a good adviser”, so why should the French be surprised that we ignore them? And it strikes me that the Bush administration moved with much greater alacrity in dealing with the consequences of hurricane Katrina than the French government has demonstrated in dealing with those frisky “African” youths. Belloc said many years ago that Europe was living from “the whiff of an empty bottle”, refering to the residual cohesiveness of the rapidly fading civilization of christendom. Now that the bottle is smashed, and even the fragrance is gone, what is there to hold France together in the face of militant Islamic zealotry? Is there any longer an idea or tradition that can said to be France, or Europe, for that matter?
- #23 “France” and the “French” are more than the opinions of Figaro and Liberation,
just as “Australia” and the “Australians” are more than the opinions of Green Left Weekly, The Age, or SMH.Posted by pog-ma-thon on 2005 11 05 at 06:23 PM • permalink
- The news I am reading only refers to “waves of arson” which “continue to plague” Paris.
Oh, yeah, they’re talking about Paris Hilton. The waves of arson refer to all the leaf fired up at her Halloween party, concentrating especially on Christian Slater who was so stoned he fell off a neighbor’s roof.
Is there something happening in Paris, France?
- #23 As usual, Paco is spot on. For the French to lecture anyone about arrogance is breathtaking. They should remember that there are two kinds of arrogance – the arrogance of those who actually possess power, and the arrogance of those who once possessed power, and cannot bring themselves to admit that they no longer do.
…that foreign media coverage was exaggerating the situation.
The French know all about exaggerating events, especially when their own journalists (with the blessings of the French government) were at the forefront of exaggerating the so called “intifada” in Israel. Although starting with the Mohammed Al-Dura blood libel “exaggerating events” would be a pure understatement.
Now they have an intifada on their hands which has blown right back in their faces
- “France” and the “French” are more than the opinions of Figaro and Liberation,
just as “Australia” and the “Australians” are more than the opinions of Green Left Weekly, The Age, or SMH.However, in a highly centralized and bureaucratic country like France the opinions of ordinary people tend to matter a lot less than those of the ruling elite and their media cronies.
- Word now is the disturbances are moving out of the “suburbs” and into Paris proper.Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 05 at 11:09 PM • permalink
- These tragic riots remind us that France has ratified the Kyoto accords. And now, the return of more temperate climate conditions in Europe have opened the eyes of the North African Muslims. They have suddenly realized they’re in France, and they’re pissed! Let’s hope the rest of the world can now start ignoring France! If you want to run things, you can’t be French. Arrogance is a way of life there.
- Gubbaboy — Monsieur le Penn is still on a three-hour tour of the Louisiana bayous. Le Pen will probably show quite strongly.Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 05 at 11:27 PM • permalink
Le Pen will probably show quite strongly.
Unfortunately, there seems to be a gap in the political spectrum in Europe. From left to right, it goes:
Stalinist – Communist – Socialist – Leftist – Left of Centerist – Fascist – Nazi.
Obviously, we need to form a Classical Liberal Corps, volunteers who will go over to Europe with copies of the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, Hayek, Friedman, etc, and teach the poor savages.
- This isnt real original but hey… sue me!
Par-is Par-is Par-is is on fire
Par-is Par-is Par-is is on fire
Par-is Par-is Par-is is on fire
We don’t need no water let the little frencheeze burn
Burn frencheeze burn.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 06 at 12:58 AM • permalink
- (just filling in the ‘oafish/infantile’ quota for Sunday).Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 06 at 01:02 AM • permalink
- o/t Iran calls for the destruction of Israel and what does the U.N. Secretary General (anan) do?
He POSTPONES HIS TRIP TO Iran…
Gosh that’ll learn ‘em not to mess with Kofi.
MSM article on “Rioters” burning Paris describes the perps as “large immigrant populations,gangs ofyouths,youths,arsonists and minors caught with firebombs”.
Three quarters of the way through we are given a clue when it states “religious leaders are hoping to calm tensions with a march where the “unrest” is occurring.”
According to Paris Prosecutor Yves Bot,weblogs are asking other French cities to join the rioting in the Paris area.
- O/T On the Insidious today,the abc is revealing (not for the first time) how far left of the A.L.P. it is.Specially on anti terrorism laws…
Host to Arch Beavis ALP “so why did you and the others give the P.M. what he wanted?”
and “but you DID give him the original support when he gave you no direct evidence”.
and “but look at kids overboard and whenever the P.M. goes to you with anti terrorism -you give him what he wants.” and
“they must think that YOU’RE lying because whenever he goes to you -you trust him.”
“It seems the N.S.W. police feel the decision to reveal the threat has jeopardized the position.” and “you didn’t mention SEDITION as and outstanding issue.”
Today they scrambled Toothey,Mischa and Matt. Matt appears to be mellowing his lefty tirades.On I.R. he said “some union clown will try to get himself arrested.”
On the Talking Pictures section the Dismissal was wheeled out again with a reunion of journos on the steps of old Parliament House.Matt Price tarnished their nostalgia with “My main memory is of Norman Gunston”.
- #41 crash- Not sure if it qualifies as a lefty tirade, but Matt Price gives “kooky” Santo Santoro a good blast in the Weekend Australian
But Santoro’s ABC obsession is plain kooky. The gruff Queenslander has established teams of like-minded nitpickers who send 15 to 20 tapes a week to his office. Having waded through several thousand pages of transcripts, Santoro proceeds to bombard management with complaints…Did you know Barrie Cassidy referred to Kim Beazley as Kim on Insiders in June? Santo does.
- #41. Gough V Gunston? No contest! Gary McDonald has talent. Gough is… errrm…
As Habib would say, Gough was chased out of office like a poison troll ( i prefer to think that he was beaten like a red-headed step-child).Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 06 at 03:11 AM • permalink
- o/t. Greens party leader dead – has gone to meet ‘furious Gaia’ in the 7th level of hell.
Adios Wodney , you wont be missed.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 06 at 03:36 AM • permalink
- #42 Musta been a temporary mellowing aberration..
N.B. ABC website summons up the courage to mention the “m” word three times in its latest billet doux from Paris…well done aunty.
Also on abc site,Australian passengers on luxury U.S. liner off coast of Somalia safe after pirates attempt to board.Pirates firing rocket mounted grenades and toting machine guns……shiver me timbers lads.
Now David Williamson woulda loved that adventure.
and U.N. demands that U.S. Halliburton reimburse Iraq for $208 million which it (allegedly My words) overcharged them.
- Matt Price thinks Philip Ruddock urinates congealed ice???
Man that journo’s been overimbibing the porn which he has listed with loving detail as being superior to S.B.S.
Matt I’ll back S.B.S.‘S porn and blasphemy(movie with a man felating a statue of Christ(in church) which turns into a living person while he’s doing it)- against good old private enterprise porn ANYTIME…
- News from the french resistance :
According to the french Right Wing blogosphere, some in the government are seriously thinking that the rioters are organized. It’s been the 9th night, and groups of motorized (on scooter) rioters have been seen setting on fire buildings before quickly leaving.
The guerillas tactics are shared on the internet.We cannot talk anymore of riot, because these act of violence are more acts of terrorism, they are not any more acts of protestation but acts of destabilization.To reply to all AMERICANS BULLIES here, Chirac’s politicals choices are not reflecting French opinions. It is like saying all americans are behind G W Bush.
For Australians, it is like saying SBS or ABC, or the SMH are representative of Australians political opinions.
- French people are fed up with the elite of politicians that are slowly pushing them to the §Islamist’s slaughter house.
We, the french people have voted NO allready for the technocratic EEC constitution, we have allready said NO to Turkey, because we think that Europe has a judeo-christian heritage that cannot accept Islam as it is now. We do not want Europe to finish at the border of SYRIA and IRAK.
It is a serious issue that I would like to ask all Americans in this Blog.Why do the US government wants Europe to accept Turkey, which is at the moment ruled by a president that proposed a law condemning “flirt”, a president whose program is to destroy the identity of modern Turkey, by reintroducing Koran in its laws ?
- Violence and act of destabilizations havec spread since 3 days outside of Paris, touching various towns and important towns in France, Rennes, Lyon, Strasbourg….
The chaos is spreadind like a metastase, using the web, the Scum is competiting into the art of carnage.
Inbetween the usual Leftists are crying for indulgence, whereas the police is asking for the army. Citizens in some area have started to regroup into militias helping policmen.
- Urban violence continued for the 10th night straight
As France’s urban violence flared again for its 10th night straight, police become more robust in arresting trouble-makers, signalling the government’s resolve in ending the rampages.Here is a timeline of the unrest:
Wednesday, October 19:– Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy declares a “war without mercy” on violence in the suburbs.
Tuesday, October 25:
– During a visit to the Paris suburb of Argenteuil, Sarkozy is pelted with stones and bottles. He describes rebellious youths in such districts as “rabble”.
Thursday, October 27:– Two boys in the suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois, Bouna Traore, a 15-year-old of Malian background, and Zyed Benna, a 17-year-old of Tunisian origin, flee a police identity check. They scale the wall of an electrical relay station and are electrocuted as they try to hide near a transformer.
– Youths in the suburb, hearing of the deaths, go on a rampage, burning 23 vehicles and vandalising buildings and hurling stones and bottles at riot police.
Friday, October 28:– Four hundred youths clash with police in Clichy-sous-Bois, throwing stones, bottles and Molotov cocktails. Twenty-three officers are hurt and their colleagues are forced to fire rubber bullets to push back mobs. Thirteen people are arrested and 29 vehicles are burned.
Saturday, October 29:– Five hundred people hold a silent march through Clichy-sous-Bois in memory of the dead teenagers.
– Violence resumes at night. Twenty vehicles are burned. Nine people are detained, some of them for carrying hammers or petrol cans.
Sunday, October 30:– Clashes occur on the outskirts of Clichy-sous-Bois. Six police officers are hurt, 11 people are arrested and eight vehicles are torched. A police teargas grenade hits a mosque, prompting anger among the suburb’s large Muslim community.
Monday, October 31:– Running clashes between youths and police take place in Clichy-sous-Bois and in surrounding suburbs. Nineteen people are arrested and 68 vehicles are torched.
Tuesday, November 1:– Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin meets the families of the dead teenagers.
– Riots and clashes erupt in several suburbs to the north and west of Paris. Altogether, 180 vehicles are torched and 34 people arrested.
Wednesday, November 2:– President Jacques Chirac tells ministers “tempers must calm down.”
– Villepin and Sarkozy cancel overseas trips to deal with the spreading violence.
– Trouble erupts in 22 suburban towns north, south, east and west of Paris. A handicapped woman suffers severe burns when youths set a bus on fire. Police say 315 vehicles are torched and at least 15 people arrested.
Thursday, November 3:– A criminal investigation is opened into the deaths of the two teenagers.
– Sarkozy says more than 140 people have been arrested since the violence began.
– The riots resume at night, but for the first time spread to other areas around France, in Dijon, Marseille and in Normandy. Seven cars are also set alight in central Paris. In all, 517 vehicles are torched in and around the capital and another 78 people are arrested.
Friday, November 4:– Arson hit-and-run attacks take place in suburbs around Paris and other French cities. A total of 897 vehicles are torched and more than 250 people arrested.
Saturday, November 5:
– Paris Prosecutor General Yves Bot says “we can see organised actions, a strategy” in the violence.
– The rampages again take place in suburbs outside Paris and other cities. At least 70 people are arrested and over 600 vehicles burned. Police use seven helicopters with lights and cameras to chase fast-moving youths who set fire to property then flee.
- “Hundreds” of people peace march in the streets in Paris.
Latest sbs news -French gov THREATENS to crack down on arsonists..“the young men who are being BLAMED for the violence..(they’ve only been doing it for ten days!)
On the U.S. cruise ship which was attacked by pirates off Somalia..Le Len Chen assures us that twenty seven such incidents have occurred since March.Well the only one mentioned was the U.N. hired ship.
- Paris Burning
By Robert SpencerFrontPageMagazine.com | November 4, 2005Here is an excellent analysis of the French Intifada
- Hi Kim—-think you’ll find that Australians feel mostly that Europe got us all into this(our Prime Minister in the 1970s,Gough Whitlam signed all sorts of E.U. treaties which most Aussies disagreed with -but we have been so lashed with the racism card that then we allowed it to happen.)
Europe were our chief critics and the UN. and we went along with it for a while consumed with guilt.
Didn’t take that long however for us to come to our senses and see what was going on.We finally realized that minority groups and the left wing and Green groups would be happier to see ANYONE take over Australia than leave the conservative democratically elected government in charge.
They have encouraged our country to be split into many small groups (all opposing the elected government and our laws) and the mainstream,moderate Australians.
However the left wing via Europe has tried to grind us down with political correctness and force us to toe their line.
Europe has been rescued before by anglo based nations but I think they are disgusted by the political parties and the E.U. that Europe has continually elected for the last forty five years.The MEDIA HAS PLAYED A HUGE PART IN THIS. EUROPE has destroyed itself over and over.Meanwhile Anglos are laying down their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Rather than assisting them, Europe has thrown EVERYTHING in their path,to cause trouble.Maybe after ALL the ANTI ANGLO and ANTI AMERICAN SHIT thrown by Europe,the LEFT WING and others at the ANGLOS AND THEIR COUSIN COUNTRIES,they don’t feel inclined to help.Europe will be lucky if the U.S. puts itself at even more risk to save them,they are so arrogant and ungrateful.Europe has only ITSELF to blame and does it DESERVE to be rescued.It is up to the FRENCH and other Europeans to immediately come to their senses and help THEMSELVES. Maybe then,others will be inclined to help.Consider yourselves on your own until THEN…….we have our own countries to save.
- #2 crash, all we need now is Rod Quantock for Cirque du Lune to be complete.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 11 06 at 07:47 AM • permalink
- #53 Thanks so much for your timeline, Kim.
Also, what crash said.
There has been a perception that Europe, which tends to be seen more as France than other countries, has more than its fair share of arrogance.
Over here, the colonial attitudes of the French as personified by Jacques Chirac and the atomic testing at Mururoa Atoll back in the 90s. There was a lot of outrage expressed, but the response from France was one of disdain. We all have long memories for these sorts of things, and there is, as crash has suggested, an element of “well, they’re so great, they’ve been telling us how to run things, let’s see what they do with this one.”
That’s my opinion, at least.
I don’t know what the solution is, although the army and the Foreign Legion figure in my vague ideas.
I think I belong to the group who want muslims deported; those who preach Islam uber alles deserve neither welcome nor comfort in western/christian/atheist/other societies.
And then, if we do send our armies over to fight for you, who will fight for us when the ‘insurgents’ among us realise the time is ripe for them to add to the confusion and speed up the coming of the new caliphate?
How many dhimmis does it take to change a light bulb?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 11 06 at 08:18 AM • permalink
- Thanks for your answers.
Crash, I am from Vietnamese background and I consider myself French. I made the effort to integrate into the Western culture at a point where I know more about western culture than a lot of Australian, I don’t have any problem to integrate into Australia, I fell in love with Australia. There is something good about multiculturalism, as long as you adhere to the country you live in. And I consider that Australia has a good mix. Maybe I am wrong, time will tell, but I don’t think Australia would ever have the same French problem. Even if you have the crappiest Green party on Earth 😉
I think the French fiasco would be a eye opener for a lot of Left Wing politicians (even if they won’t admit it publicly)I have nothing against muslims, I have something against Islam. I have a problem about a religion that spread war against anyone who is not muslim since 600 AD. I have a problem with thinking about deporting people. It sounds like something coming from Europe, like Bosnia…
You have to make a distinction between propaganda and facts. Facts are that French diplomaty said no to Iraq. But France is part of the Coalition in Afghanistan. France is with the US against Syria.
And thanks for Nilknarf Arbed, I understand why you are so annoyed with the French diplomatic arrogance. We are a lot in France to be so ashame of what Chirac did to our country. In France some share the idea that Chirac sold France to the Middle East (remember Arafat, Saddam ?).
But you have to know also that when France was testing its atomic bomb in the Pacific, the Uranium was Australian.
- #51, Kim, to answer your question about Turkey: the thinking was that if Turkey, being the only halfway sane Muslim country in that part of the world, joined the EU it would receive the benefits of trade and secularization, become more prosperous, and be far less likely to turn into one of those nutjob Islamic Republics.
Maybe that seems like American bullying to you, but it looks like common sense to us. Still, we know the decision is yours and we can’t force you, nor would we. But you might ask yourselves if you want Turkey (who already sits on your borders) to be one of you, or one of them.
But you have to know also that when France was testing its atomic bomb in the Pacific, the Uranium was Australian.
Kim — Imagine Australia’s surprise when they found out the French could be so filthy (apparently no Australian premier has ever visited Paris). Perhaps they should have realized they nneded to have printed a “no dusting the blackfellas in Polynesia” clause on the sales receipt.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 06 at 12:29 PM • permalink
ABC news had two gems:
1) One of the rioters reasons for ‘rioting’ was to protest about crime!2) Its the politicians who are to blame for not doing enough for them!
Nic—remember, this is France, the country whose workers struck to demand greater worker productivity…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 06 at 12:31 PM • permalink
- Kim — Idle question: who kept electing Chirac? The Belgians?Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 06 at 12:34 PM • permalink
- About Turkey. Again, Europe was at war with Turkey for centuries. Turkey still doesn’t recognize the genocide it did on Armenian. Turkey is ruled at the moment by someone who is a fundamentalist, and who is against modern Turkey. Giving him the entry to Europe would give him an enormous political uplift against his turkish’s opponent that are secular and modern.
Did you forget how they didn’t help you at the beginning of the Iraq war ?
- PW
You deserve a formal ‘Groan’ for that one!
Kim
Thank you for the list, it is extremely interesting. Any additional information you feel you wish to post on the reactions of the ‘silent majority’ of French citizens would be very welcome.
Information on what the people in France feel about this Muslim uprising in France is either not available, or very distorted by the media. So I read what you say very carefully.
MarkL
Canberra
- Did you forget how they didn’t help you at the beginning of the Iraq war ?
That’s part of the political game. America doesn’t hold grudges when we might be able to get an unfriendly country to do what’s in everybody’s best interest. (This, by the way, is the very reason that Europeans say Americans have no sense of history.)
I feel moving Turkey into the EU would undercut fundamentalist Islam in that country. Somebody else here posted that people who have jobs and prosperity don’t have the time or energy to plot violence.
All that could change, though, if the current French intifada succeeds in pushing back French (and by extension, European) authority.
- In addition to the list Kim provided, another major sticking point is the Turkish security presence (if you listen to the Turkish) or occupation (if you listen to pretty much everybody else) of Northern Cyprus.
Without a resolution to that conflict, neither Cyprus nor Greece (which acts as something of a security guarantor to the island) will even consider letting Turkey into the EU.
- I feel moving Turkey into the EU would undercut fundamentalist Islam in that country. Somebody else here posted that people who have jobs and prosperity don’t have the time or energy to plot violence.
The question is whether joining the EU would actually lead to greater prosperity in Turkey over the long run, and whether it wouldn’t be overcompensated by the sloth and lethargy generally promoted by the presence of the European superstate.
Keep in mind that the “ideal” EU as envisioned by the Eurocrats looks very much like the French state. And we’re seeing how well that has worked in undercutting fundamentalism.
- Kim #68,
No, I have not forgotten how Turkey refused to support the USA and Britain in the Iraq Campaign. I have also not forgotten that part of the reason for that betrayal was that the French government put intense pressure on Turkey to refuse, threatening to veto Turkey’s application to enter the EU if the Turks allowed US troops to move through Turkey or support operations there from bases in Turkey. One more count against France.Frankly, after that I would have ceased to support Turkey’s entry. Not opposed it, mind you, just shut up about it. However, the Bush Administration is more farsighted and less emotinal than I am, and take a more realistic approach. They think by supporting what the Turks say they want we can have influence with them. Personally I think they are foolish to want to join the EU, and that we should instead offer them a free trade agreement in its place. That way they’ll avoid the disaster that is coming when the EU collapses.
I might point out that with the hostility of the French to Turkey’s entry the Turks now know exactly what French assurances of support, if they went along with French anti-American policies, are worth.
I have concluded that many years ago, maybe as many as thirty or more, the French government decided, quite deliberately, to become the adversary of the USA. In this it has the approbation of the majority of French people, acting out of a deep-seated sense of malicious envy and arrogant condescension. Since France cannot alone defend herself against threats, and has not been able to do so for more than a century, it was a very foolish and short-sighted policy to take against the main country that can save France’s butt the next time there is an emergency. This is the sort of sophistication and forsight we have come to expect from Marianne.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2005 11 06 at 07:16 PM • permalink
- 17 other Dave
But hey, we’re getting plenty of coverage of the small anti-Bush riots in a tony section of Argentina!
Oh, those. Those would be the “riots” rejecting Mr Bush’s goal of expanding free trade in the western hemisphere by establishing a wider version of NAFTA. For some odd reason, I’ve found myself wondering what Paul Krugman would say about that, and for all I know (yet strongly doubt) he’s said plenty, but oddly, none of it gets across his protective firewal into a venue where I can read it.
Paul Krugman … anybody here remember him? The credible free-trade proponent? Not to be confused with the name-jacking leftist toad who’s been appearing bi-weekly in the NYT under that by-line …Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 11 08 at 01:51 PM • permalink
