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Last updated on July 16th, 2017 at 02:20 pm
Australian gun owners are among our most regulated citizens, subject to a huge range of laws and limits. As are our gun shops
. Yet firearm fear is rousing some Sydney residents to panic:
Andrew Peter, a gun enthusiast and coffee
shop
The shop is opposite a community hall that runs a preschool centre. It is also near a bus interchange used by schoolchildren, and some neighbouring businesses say the approval, although legal, is inappropriate.
No greater condemnation exists.
Lisa Warrand is one of dozens of parents who fear the worst: the potential for an armed hold-up and shootout, or merely having to explain to children who walk past every day why a shop
An armed hold-up? Of a gun shop? Those are relatively rare, for reasons that should be obvious. A shootout? Not too many of those take place around gun shops, either. Explaining to kids why shops sell guns? Try this: “For hunting and recreational use.” Not so difficult, really.
“Roseville has five churches and no pubs. People buy
Probably because he wants to kill everybody. It’s the main motivation of most licensed gun owners, surely.
Sally Cochrane runs the Zest hairdressing salon a few doors
Pressed, Sally might concede that the likelihood of her store being held up is greater; few bandits are repelled by curling wands, after all.
“Children and guns don’t mix. It’s as simple as that, and if there is a robbery then it could be disastrous. I accept that this man has a right to open his shop and to sell guns, but not here.”
Given the suburb’s apparent widespread gun antipathy, why is Andrew Peter seeking to open his store there? The answer will terrify Lisa and Sally:
One of the main reasons for his decision was the estimated 1300 firearm owners who live in the area.
Gasp! Some of them might live near children.
Of course not, we’re not to be trusted after all…..
Children and guns don’t mix?? She’s obviously never played cops and robbers or cowboys and indians. If we got a cork gun as a kid the first thing we did was cut the string so we could shoot each other. You ought to see my kids with nerf guns…..I must admit though, you gun owners in Oz have it a lot worse than we do in the US, but the anti gunners are working feverishly to change that here too!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:49 AM • permalink
few bandits are repelled by curling wands
Well, that depends . . .
“They just whooped the hell out of him,” said school owner Sharon Blalock.
Don’t mess with Big Momma in Shreveport ya’ll might just see a can of THIS!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 10:12 AM • permalink
Paco—How did PACO Products miss This?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 08 22 at 10:29 AM • permalink
My 4 year old son has fired a pellet gun is that bad?
How about if you see a crocadile eating someone would it be best to leave it alone? And call the police I’m sure they would arrive in 35 seconds no matter where the croc.
Haven’t crime rates gone up since Howard did the big buy back?
I got an email saying that but I got another one that isn’t true.
Posted by hollingshead on 2007 08 22 at 10:32 AM • permalink
Oh, for heaven’s sake. These morons act like the guns are going to jump out of the cases and run down the street on their own, randomly firing at their precious darlings.
Sheep, I tell you, these people are sheep.
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 08 22 at 10:43 AM • permalink
#7 I heard a rumour that PACO products have gone a bit further than that.
Look out for the PACO USB 80-megatonne nuclear warhead with full guidance system and optional smallpox / anthrax delivery capability (Genocide Without Leaving Your Office)
Posted by ThinAndBritish on 2007 08 22 at 10:46 AM • permalink
Explaining to kids why shops sell guns? Try this: “For hunting and recreational use.” Not so difficult, really.
Or this: “Because most people lack the skills to make their own guns.”
Posted by tim maguire on 2007 08 22 at 10:59 AM • permalink
Further sources (unnamed) reveal that President Bush will shortly have one of these installed on his laptop.
Just in: one critic has claimed that the associated desktop icon looks too similar to the Windows “Recycle Bin”. PACO products declined to comment.
Oddly, the critic was found dead in his car the next day, but this isn’t thought to be connected.
Posted by ThinAndBritish on 2007 08 22 at 11:00 AM • permalink
“We teach children about how bad guns are and…”
How about teaching kids about how bad paranoid people like Ms Warrand are?
Posted by Bashir Gemayel on 2007 08 22 at 11:24 AM • permalink
“We teach children about how bad guns are and…”
You just reminded me, guns are inanimate, they can’t be bad, nor can they be good, it’s just a gun……..
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 11:27 AM • permalink
Logically, those parent should remove all knives, axes, shovels, icepicks, rocks, loose bricks, pesticides, full bottles of beer (also broken bottles), random swords, table legs, fireplace pokers, tire irons, etc. from the neighborhood, as these items have all been used, at one time or another, as implements of murder. You know, just to be on the safe side.
I’ll never understand the reflexive fear of firearms. IMHO a frying pan is more dangerous since you’re much more likely to get hit by one.
Posted by memomachine on 2007 08 22 at 11:38 AM • permalink
Another thing you can tell your children:
“Johnny, Bobby, listen up. If you study hard, do your homework, and get goods grades this year, I’ll get each of you one of these for Christmas.
“Gun control is hitting what you aim at”
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 11:47 AM • permalink
Here’s mine Winchester model 94 .30.30
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 11:52 AM • permalink
Hmmm… gotta wonder what their feelings are about the weapons brandished by Lebanese “youths” after Bondi.
Probably have no idea it happened, or simply don’t care.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 08 22 at 11:53 AM • permalink
Speaking of gun control, check this out.
“We teach children about how bad guns are and yet we are being put into a position where we have to explain why there is a man in the car park carrying a gun bought across the road.”
So stop teaching children that guns are bad. It’s bad enough they’re getting corporate marketing crap drilled into their heads every day; they don’t need discredited Marxist propaganda added to it.
Seriously, that’s like saying, “We teach children about how bad vaccines are and yet we are being put into a position where we have to explain why there is a clinic offering polio vaccinations across the road.” I don’t think it’s the clinic that’s the real problem.
Posted by Tatterdemalian on 2007 08 22 at 12:09 PM • permalink
#30 Yojimbo: They might be the hardest hit, but they’d stand a better chance of surviving with Care-Vlar, the new bullet-proof clothing line from Paco Textiles, Inc. From Li’l S.W.A.T. Overalls for toddlers to Junior Miss armor-pleated skirts to Terminator ladies pants suits, Care-Vlar’s got you covered. And coming soon: our exciting new men’s line of Care-Vlar clothing! Full metal sports jackets, double breast-plated suits, and ferrous fedoras all add up to a stylin’, ricochetin’ ensemble that makes you look great and feel safe.
Paco Textiles: Watch Us Spin!
It’s about bloody time slacker. Does Pacozon.com offer express delivery on that and do they se habla American Express? What does “coming soon” mean? I need that outfit for our next “Hard Liquor and Handgun Night” at the old ballpark here(every home Thursday is “Thirsty Thursday”).
Just as an aside, we went to see the Sidewinders versus the Sky Sox last night for $4 total. Tuesdays are “$2 Taco Tuesdays” here. You get to see AAA baseball for four dollars and free parking about two hundred feet from the entrance. I will grant you that it is not Lansing Lugnut baseball but we still had a great time.
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 08 22 at 01:34 PM • permalink
#28 paco, I’ve seen that one before, that was a heck of a shot!!!
Now here is what an Old Tanker teaches his kids about guns ….please note that the guns are pointed in a safe direction…safety first!!! The one on the left is my nephew and the other 2 are in fact, little tankers. Doesn’t the NRA hat on an 8 year old just scream PC!
Please also note that Old Tankers teach little tankers proper firing techniques so that they hit what they aim at!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 01:41 PM • permalink
#34 Lansing Lugnuts…..hey, I live just 30 minutes from Olds field!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 01:43 PM • permalink
Pressed, Sally might concede that the likelihood of her store being held up is greater; few bandits are repelled by curling wands, after all.
Oh, I dunno, Tim. I saw a clip on TV recently where some idiot guy tried, much to his regret, to hold up a beauty parlor.
The cop was trying (unsuccessfully) not to laugh his ass off as he described for the cameras how the ladies beat the guy with whatever they had (hair dryers, etc.) and when he tried to escape, they dragged him back in the door and beat him some more. 😀
As far as the people in the story are concerned: they’re idiots.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 08 22 at 02:09 PM • permalink
Sorry, #5 paco – didn’t read the comments before I added my own.
The clowns mentioned in Tim’s story are STILL idiots.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 08 22 at 02:12 PM • permalink
See the second picture in my comment #36….that’s EXACTLY what I’m doing with my youngest son……of course left unattended they would be shooting each other in the ass but hey, boys will be boys……
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 02:37 PM • permalink
They might be the hardest hit, but they’d stand a better chance of surviving with Care-Vlar, the new bullet-proof clothing line from Paco Textiles, Inc. From Li’l S.W.A.T. Overalls for toddlers to Junior Miss armor-pleated skirts to Terminator ladies pants suits, Care-Vlar’s got you covered. And coming soon: our exciting new men’s line of Care-Vlar clothing! Full metal sports jackets, double breast-plated suits, and ferrous fedoras all add up to a stylin’, ricochetin’ ensemble that makes you look great and feel safe.
Paco Textiles: Watch Us Spin!
Oh good lord. This so much reminds me of the presentation paco made at the VRWC continuing education seminar. It sounded like a freaking infomercial. paco even had anycanuck and RebeccaH model his clothing line and various gadgets. And making matters worse, he directed everyone to the booths outside the conference room. It wasn’t even break time!
I think I had less than 20 people listening to my following presentation on “FAXING METHODS FOR FAKE MEMOS”. I worked days on that presentation!
Posted by wronwright on 2007 08 22 at 02:42 PM • permalink
Well you old sod. If you are so close how could you let them go from a Cubs affiliate to…..Toronto!!? I hold you responsible.
My father owned a Model 94 in 32 Special-he got two mountain lions with that one.
I was always more of a Model 70 guy(30-06 and 375).When I was a very,very young Yojimbo I went through a NRA sponsored course. Had to go through a field test and all and received a certificate in the end. Hey, I’m certified!
The Lugnutz wouldn’t let me into any of the meetings…..go figure.
My father also has a model ‘94 in .32 Special. When we go to deer camp together we are VERY CAREFUL about which ammo we put into our pockets!!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 02:52 PM • permalink
OK, new one on me. I’ve heard of the .32-20 (.32 WCF), .32 Magnum and the plain ole .32. What’s a .32 Special?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 08 22 at 03:16 PM • permalink
It’s amazing that the left wants kids too young for sex to be taught about safe sex in schools, but if you mention teaching kids about gun safety (in which the kids would be told “you’re too young for this on your own, you must have adult supervision), well the leftists would go ballistic. (Pun free of charge)
Here’s some info on the .32 special. They stopped making them some time ago due to the popularity of the .30-30 load and the fact that you can get a .30-30 cartridge into the .32 special and create all kinds of problems!! (the reason for my #46 above)
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 03:22 PM • permalink
I was just looking at that picture a little closer….my son has his finger on the safety!!! I couldn’t have planned that one any better!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 03:28 PM • permalink
If you’re going to ban guns, you might as well ban vibrators, too.
Puttin’ on my evil bad dude hat an graspin’ ma trusty Red Rider so’s best to think like a criminal…I’m a thinkin’ that thar gun shop has guns, bullets and thems that know how to use ‘em. But that thar purty beauty saylon…the only thing in a quick draw holster is likely to be a hair dryer. Well then, I think I’m over due for a hair cut. Excuse me, folks…
#18 RebeccaH, add handkerchiefs to the list. Unless I am completely senile, there was a case in NY years ago where a handkerchief was found to be a deadly weapon because the defendant used it to choke someone to death by shoving it down their throat. Essentially, any object can be a deadly weapon depending on how it is used.
The one my Dad now owns belonged to my great grandfather and probably was purchased circa 1910?? My .30-30 is also a model 1894 but was made brand new when my uncle got it for my birthday in 1980.
The action in my fathers 1910 era rifle is far tighter and more smooth than mine built in 1980.
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 03:58 PM • permalink
That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “Stick ‘em up” (did I just type that??)
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 04:00 PM • permalink
s-s-o-o-rrr-yy, I d-d-i-n’t kn-o-ow it-t-t was-s-s load-e-d-d-d
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 04:08 PM • permalink
Not-entirely-o/t: Aksa Martyrs Brigades: Truce over. Good thing they announced it. Otherwise it would be impossible to tell.
Lisa and Sally would doubtless be appalled by the picture accompanying the article. Doubtless.
It’s too long to go into full detail here, but in the ‘90’s a shipmate sent home a package that included a vibrator – and he neglected to take out the batteries, and somehow it got turned on, and the EOD guys in Bahrain had to open it up, and we got a querulous message about it which sadly we neglected to take as seriously as the shoreside pukes expected because, well, we were laughing out asses off.
And the guy sending the package? He got the nickname “Buzz.”
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 08 22 at 04:59 PM • permalink
Geez, the last post here about anti-gun idiots caused me to go out and pick up a new bullet launcher. Guess I’ll be supporting yet another purveyor of eeeeeeeevulllll firearms in the near future.
Only this time, something somewhat less concealable, I think. Maybe an 1894, maybe something of more recent vintage.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 08 22 at 05:13 PM • permalink
At one point our cul de sac of 13 houses had, to the best of our knowledge five firearms between four gun owners including a cop.
And the least securely stored of all was the cop’s pistol which at various points was “mislaid” around the house or left in the glovebox of his car.
One of the other gun owners had his rifles confiscated after the police sent his licence renewal notice to an address he had never lived at and I myself was recently subject to a random inspection of my gun safe.
Our street also has lot of happy, well-adjusted, unafraid children…
— Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 08 22 at 05:28 PM • permalink
Damn , a gun thread at Blair’s’ place and I’m late showing up. Typical. Model 94’s are cool and all but I’m with yojimbo. Win. Model 70 in 30-06. The classic rifleman’s’ rifle. My town only has about 1500 people total living in it and we used to have a pair of gun shops/hardware stores.Alas, One has since gone out of business. Great photos Old Tanker. Fine looking young gentlemen. I wish had some of greene jr. with his .22 rifle to share. He’s 7yrs old by the way. Bet the matrons of Sydney would be properly scandalized.
Where I live (Michigan) the Model 94 .30-30 is the classic brush gun and all that is needed. A .30-06 is probably the most versatile rifle around and on my VERY short list when I purchase a new rifle (my ‘94 is going to my oldest when he is ready) The variety of loads makes it adaptable to about any hunting situation.
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 06:07 PM • permalink
“We teach children about how bad guns are
This sounds like a blatent lie. No one sits their kids down and says “I want to tell you how bad guns are”. This sort of thing is something you hear all the time now. Fabricated stories used as fact to back up arguments.
It is a product of political correctness, where people say what they are expected to say. “I always have two pieces of fruit for breakfast” or “We do everything we can to save to reduce greenhouse gases” and (hopefully) “I’m voting for Kevin Rudd”.
First, there’s not crocs all over Australia, they’re pretty selective about where they live…
and they are also protected species…
Go figure!
I had a friend years ago with a son who loved guns. She was freaked about it (this was in the 80s). He was NOT allowed to have toy guns or any weapons. Needless to say, any lego or bits of wood were instantly manufactured or imaginised into, wait for it, guns!
He turned out OK, he’s not particularly interested in guns now.
- …the potential for an armed hold-up and shootout
One supposes the concerned mothers of Roseville would oppose other such high risk ventures such as banks, convenience stores and cop shops.
Good advice on the Model 94 30-30. That was my first center fire rifle. Still have it and use it for filling doe tags. Also correct about the 30-06 being about the best all around for north America. From 110 grains to 220 grains it will shoot almost anything well. I live in the desert where shots are long, and we have both mulies and pronghorns out here, so my current fave rave is a Ruger Model 77 Mk II in .270 fitted with a Leupold Vari-X II 4×12. Shoots flat, and you can find ammo at any mom and pop sporting goods store. Stainless steel, so no wucking furries about scratching the bluing, and ditto for the synthetic stock: It’s about the most weatherproof gun you can get.
The child with no fear of handling guns is a child with a keen appreciation of what MIShandling them can do…
Those protesters don’t seem to know the difference.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 08 22 at 07:38 PM • permalink
- What is a good bolt action rifle to buy here in Oz. Im about to get a rifle again for the local full bore club.
Doesnt have to be a work of art, just relyable, flat trajectory and simple to maintain.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 08 22 at 07:39 PM • permalink
IMHO a frying pan is more dangerous since you’re much more likely to get hit by one.
Especially in a domestic situation and at close range.
#27
At Roseville I doubt that many of them realise that illegal weapons use (& display) by louts is rife in the western suburbs. (No offence to sensible, aware RWDB residents of Bondi Junction…)Little old lady visits a sex shop. (None of that in Roseville, either!)
She approaches the young chap behind the counter and asks, in a quavering voice, “Ddddddooooo yyyooouuu ssstttiiilll hhhaaavvveee ttthhhooossseee pppiiinnnkkk vvviiibbbrrraaatttooorrrsss iiinnn ttthhheee bbboooxxxeeesss???”
He smiles and says, “Why, yes! Would you like me to gift wrap one for you?”
“Nnnooo. Hhhooowww dddooo yyyooouuu tttuuurrrnnn ttthhheeemmm ooofff???”
#86 Hucbald…. That’s the exact scope I have on my custom Sako ought six. Hart stainless barrel, (with black Teflon coating so it doesn’t look stainless)stock of California walnut from Great American Gunstocks. Bought my rifle with my first income tax refund when I was 19. Finally put a custom barrel and stock on it when I was 48. Good things come to those who wait. It’s a shooter too. Three shot groups at a hundred yds. that you can cover with a nickel. I like shotguns and pistols as well.
Any amateur or professional psychologists attempting to analyze us gun-owner/aficionados can bite me.
One moron actually tried to stick up a gunstore in North Hollywood. Walked into a showroom full of armed clerks, shooters and off-duty cops.
He did not get the reaction he was expecting when he flashed his iron.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 08 22 at 08:13 PM • permalink
I have to agree with these deeply concerned citizens. It’s not just the guns that cause trouble, but all the mysterious men wearing black hats, riding black horses, drinking straight rye, looking for duels, hassling the sheriff and the townfolk that you really have to worry about.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 08 22 at 08:24 PM • permalink
ThinandBritish: Look out for the PACO USB 80-megatonne nuclear warhead with full guidance system and optional smallpox / anthrax delivery capability (Genocide Without Leaving Your Office)
Hmmm. Lessee… Mecca, Medina, Jeddah, Riyadh, another 12 for the hinterlands, Tehran, Qom Bandar Abbas, Abadan, Islamabad, Karachi, another 24 for the tribal areas, Khartoum, Port Sudan, Benghazi, Tripoli, Tunis and 12 more for various places in North Africa. OK, I’ll take 63 plus another 10 as spares. I’ll also need a serious number of neutron bombs – 150 should do – ‘cause I need to take out Damascus, the Bekaa, Beirut, Tyre, Sidon, the Gaza strip and west bank (twice to make sure I get ‘em all) Amman, Cairo Alexandria etc etc without killing any of the Christians and Jews who leave in or near such places.
Can you deliver by Thursday? Be nice to catch ‘em arse up as they pray to the lord of the abyss.
MarkL
canberra
What did we tell you about NOT setting the LakeLifter™ on “Ocean?!”
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 08 22 at 08:48 PM • permalink
My eight year old son wants to know when he can go shooting with me.
I love him.
Posted by Apparatchik on 2007 08 22 at 08:50 PM • permalink
Remington 700….. That’s as reliable and accurate as they get.
Mole, depends where your at in Oz, if you have long open shots Hucbald is right, .270 is the way to go, super fast and super flat, in America referred to as the “Varmint Gun” used mainly in our deserts (hence Hucbald’s fondness) for Prairie dogs. If you’re going after something bigger, you may want to upsize to a .30-06. As we mentioned earlier, it’s real versatile, you can buy hot loads for the longer shooting or go 200+ grain to knock down big animals (here in the US, Elk and black bear)
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 08:57 PM • permalink
#36 – old Tanker, well done! Much the same thing I have done with 2 of my sons and my daughter.
Frollickingmole
Mate, first work out what you want to do with it and what your price range is. I’d suggest good quality second hand first as a stage to help you define your requirements and see what final rifle you want.
Target shooting? Hunting? Both? There are a hell of a lot of good guns out there.
For a simple, economical rifle for target and hunting for example, the Winchester 70C .222 with a good scope is nice, with a flat trajectory (my cousin has obtained an up-hill heart shot on a 200kg pig at 180m with this rifle) but it does not meet your full bore requirement. You could go .303 if you like ex-mil, plenty of them in Australia but ammo is not cheap. Savage make a beautiful (new) .308. There is a lot of choice.
With the kids, I started them off on cheap Chinese Norinco .22’s. hitting a 20c coin sized target routinely at 50m gives them all the basics and they can use 500 rounds in a day for manageable prices. A cheap gun/scope combo can do that (less than $100 second hand), so depending on your existing experience you might want to start there. You will find that a little .22 is so generally useful anyway on pests and vermin (cats, rabbits, even foxes) that you’ll get one, and they are good for basic marksmanship at low cost.
Seriously, I’d join SSAA and hang out at the full bore club and talk to the members first, to more closely define what your requirements are. Start basic and economical and work from there.
MarkL
Canberra
I just got my NRA magazine today. The first section is called the armed citizen and is FULL of those stories.
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:02 PM • permalink
Good point, I didn’t even ask what he wanted it for!! Where I live 90% of the guns sold are for hunting so my brain immediately goes there. I agree about 2nd hand, here you can find gobs of GREAT deals on used guns, particularly the hunting type!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:10 PM • permalink
I remember big bore range clubs used to use the old Lee Enfield .303, but not sure now.
Otherwise I agree with locoti at #96, you can’t go wrong with Remington.
Talk to the blokes in the club, they’ll set you straight and no doubt let you try a heap of different varieties to make the choice easier
Good points.
Just a note to mention I do have a 30-06 that I inherited from my dad. It’s an ancient Remington Model 721 with a fixed 4x Unertl scope. If I’m going up to New Mexico I’ll take that. .270 is far too light for elk, IMO.
Bur then, if I’m relally ambitious, I’ll take my 7mm Rem Mag. *he says, laughing quietly to himself*
I guess these fuckwits don’t realise that within a 10 min. drive of Andrew Peters Sporting Goods and Firearms Shop there is a long established Pistol Club where members actually regularly fire their instruments of death at innocent cardboard targets.Even worse this club as well as having five pistol ranges to accomodate the urges of the shootists also features a barbeque area and childrens play area.
116 The elk don’t run too far after getting hit with that 7mm mag do they??
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:32 PM • permalink
120 Makes cleaning them easier when you shoot AND dress them all at once eh?
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:36 PM • permalink
Remington Model 700 is a fine rifle and the basis for US sniper weapons. Having said that, there were some some safety issues ( since addressed , according to Remington) involving accidental firings when disengaging the safety to unload the weapon. Win. Model 70 has a three position safety that allows the rifle to be unloaded while the safety is engaged. It is similar to the Mauser safety. Also , the Mod. 70 has the slickest action ever imho. I’ve heard that the Model 70 is being discontinued except by the Winchester Custom Shop.Get them while you can. I am a witness to an accidental firing of a Mod. 700. A good friend (former Marine) was unloading his rifle 7mm. Remington mag. when it went off . Thankfully , his muzzle discipline was correct and the bullet didn’t harm anyone. Muzzle discipline= Never point your weapon at anything you don’t intend to shoot.
I think that many of the self righteous wowsers like Lisa Warrand would be appalled at the number of legally owned and licensed firearms in suburbia around Australia. If she knew she would be demanding that the government do something about all these “hidden” guns, despite that fact that five minutes ago she didn’t even know they existed.
I don’t even bother arguing the toss with gun fearing idiots like Ms Warrand any more.
They are zealots, they know they are righteous and bathe in the warming glow of political correctness, and nothing that a gun totin’ neanderthal like me ever says will ever change their mind.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 08 22 at 09:39 PM • permalink
We have a bit of a row going in San Francisco right now where the city council wants to ban the Blue Angels from Fleetweek. I read a quote from a concerned citizen that said their 6 year old daughter would hear a jet overhead and be terrified that the war planes would drop bombs and kill her. They lived on the approach to the airport so she’s been hearing jets all of her life…….wonder where she got the idea that the blue angels were going to kill her???? (duh)
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:42 PM • permalink
The worst of it is, there is some IDIOT at the Tele writing the most amaz… well read it yourself.Read and wonder!
Pretty soon they’ll be selling cricket bats behind reinforced steel in this limp wristed, mincing, caffe latte quaffing, manicure liking, gerbil pestering, lady boy loving nation of mine.
Frollicking – Buy one of fucking everything. Wait by the phone. Posse forming.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 08 22 at 09:45 PM • permalink
Kids and guns don’t mix??? I suppose preschoolers all over Oz are stocking up on firearms right now…….
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 09:47 PM • permalink
Yeah, mom has brainwashed the kids into being scared of the sound of jet aircraft. No child abuse there.
Thank God I was raised right. My dad was a USAF pilot. When we were stationed at Yakota AFB in Japan, we used to go to the end of the runway and watch the SR-71’s take off at night. The flames coming out with the afterburners on were longer than the fuselage! And the sound? I’d cover my ears with my hands and listen to my teeth rattle, all the while grinning from ear to ear.
Magnificent doesn’t begin to describe the experience.
#127: I read a quote from a concerned citizen that said their 6 year old daughter would hear a jet overhead and be terrified that the war planes would drop bombs and kill her.
Tell you what, little girl. Let’s play a trick on mommy. Call the police and tell them about that funny water pipe and those spicy “herbs” she keeps hidden in a plastic bag in her closet – you know, in the drawer under the stack of Che t-shirts. You do that, and we promise that the scary airplanes won’t drop any bombs on your house.
Hey, if the guy had really said this, and meant it, I might consider voting for him.
Never let it be said that I woofed at the Model 94. My father had a 94 because he needed a saddle gun(literally).
My first big bore was the Model 70 because I needed something with huge carry for deer hunting etc at distance in California and Montana etc.
Anything made by Winchester back in those days were muy bueno.
I try to simplify calibers. For plinking you can’t beat .22LR. Very low cost and at fifty yards a real tack driver – about ten bucks for a brick of 500 rounds. Shoot all day for a couple dollars. My trusty Ruger 10-22 is as fine an example of a low cost plinker as you’ll find. Except that I have scoped mine. And installed a bipod. And a custom trigger group. So the US$200 rifle has about, uh, $800 in it now.
Which doesn’t invalidate my basic point. Whatever that was.
I also have a Robinson Arms XCR in 5.56mm, because I’m not in love with the AR-15 gas management system and really prefer a gas piston for a high powered semiauto.
For general all around shooting at reasonable ranges, I have two M1 Garands and a Ruger M77 (left handed bolt action), using the trusty .30-06, maybe the best general purpose high powered cartridge ever developed. It’s similar to the .303 with two advantages: it’s a more powerful round, and it’s symbolic of a nation not yet overrun by the GFWs. Yeah, I’m one of those cold dead fingers guys.
And finally in case any grizzlies come snooping around my humble abode, I have a Marlin 1895G in .45-70, a venerable round over a century and a quarter old, which made the transition from black powder to smokeless and is available in some fearsome magnum loads (I like the Buffalo Bore 430 grain at 1900 fps).
And that’s it – four calibers for my shooting needs. I also have a Beretta CX4 carbine chambered in .45ACP, but I don’t really count that since I have lots and lots of that round on hand for my pistols. Which is a whol enother story.
Oh, and I have a pair of .177 pellet guns, for when I don’t feel like trudging for ten minutes out behind my house to set up targets at a distance not likely to startle the neighbors – nobody lives nearer than about three hundred yards but that’s still too close to be tossing lead around unless they’re fighting off the mutant biker gangs those fine Australian documentaries with Mel Gibson have familiarized us with. With the pellet guns I can roll the cars out of the garage and set up a trap at one end and have an indoor 30 yard range.
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 08 22 at 10:20 PM • permalink
Thank you for probably solving a mystery for me.
A few years back there was a story about a SF couple that would not name their baby. They were going to wait for their newborn to add a few years and let it decide what sex it thought it was before naming it.
I always wondered what happened to them and now I probably know.
The model 70 is a fine gun and nobody disses the gun that won the west (the trusty ‘94) My guess is that it would have similar history in Oz as well.
137 Steve
I love my little .177 pellet gun. It keeps the squirrels off of my bird feeders. If I don’t want to eat them I can just plink ‘em in the ass and piss them off, they don’t come back for a month. If I decide I want some squirrel then I can test my marksmanship, you pretty much have to brain ‘em right in the ear to bring one down with the pellet gun (at least mine, Crossman 2100 Classic in the pic in comment 36)
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 10:36 PM • permalink
133 she goes running for the shelter of her mother’s little helper……
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 22 at 10:38 PM • permalink
Old Tanker… thanks for the link…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 08 22 at 10:40 PM • permalink
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
As a stupid American, I had no idea that Aussies were packing. I assumed you went with the weenie Brits on this issue. I’m SO glad to be wrong.
Tim Blair, you’ve done a tremendous service to your country with this post. If ever we thought we had closer ties with Britain or Israel, this post totally dispels that myth. I feel like saying OY now. Please permit me to use a little German to say how I really feel.
Australia uber alles!
We are kindred spirits, AU and US, whether we like it or not. You guys down under rock.
Also, Roseville should definitely get a pub.
Oh man, I gotta visit one of you blokes one day.
I’m still salivating over Steve Skubinna’s list (#137). A .45-70 with a 430 grain 1900fps load? Ye Gods.
That said, I am a .303 man, I have a very nice one made at Lithgow in 1922 and it has only ever had about 50 rounds from it according to the gunsmith. I am looking next at a Japanese 6.5mm Arisaka, a vastly underrated rifle and one of the best infantryman’s rifles ever made.
BTW, not me saying that! That opinion came from some WWI veterans who went out to play again in WWII in Africa, the Levant and New Guinea. I still remember one looking fondly at his Arisaka and saying “That is the only rifle I ever beat an enemy soldier to death with where the stock did not come off.” Turns out it has two tangs connected to the receiver and the trigger guard and connected by a long through-bolt. The action is well covered against dust and the action is simply the strongest ever made in a military rifle. In one famous incident published in The American Rifleman in May 1959, some whackjob rechambered it for .30-06 rounds, and used it to hunt deer. he was successful. Pity he forgot the barrel.
He was firing a .308” round through a .264” barrel! I assume his MV was a substantial fraction of lightspeed…
No problems, but she kicked a bit! Frank de Haas tried to blow one up (see page 67 of his ‘Bolt Action Rifles 3rd edition) and failed.
MarkL
Canberra
Re #128, ChrisPer, that article was just balanced, y’know?
/sarcasm
Steve, re #137: Ah, the excellent M1 Garand! I have one as well, a fine range weapon. After getting a few spare shekels, I checked the Civilian Marksmanship Program web site, and found out that I juuuuuuust missed the chance to order an M1 carbine (my next long gun of choice, alas). I’d probably have to work on it some, from the condition description, but that’s part of the fun. I wouldn’t mind a second one as well, but that’ll have to wait a while.
Now, I have to research the market some more. That XCR sounds interesting…..I’ll have to read up on it. I was considering at a Bushmaster, but I’ve had a lot of experience with the AR15/M16 design, so I hears ya, I do.
Air pistols are excellent for training shooters. One of my NCOs was on the State shooting team, and offered me sage advice for improving my shooting. That was one of the suggestions, and it helped IMMENSELY. Not to mention chasing yowling cats out of my back yard.
I also find .308 a good range calber as well (I don’t hunt, I’m a killer of innocent paper targets). ;-D
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 08 23 at 12:28 AM • permalink
- Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 08 23 at 01:14 AM • permalink
- Thanks for the suggestions, the remington 700 looks about right for chasing goats with (about the biggest I will be after). I hate having to chase my hits when they dont drop quickly, which tends to happen quite a bit with the basic .22
The 303 would be what Id like if they didnt manufacture the bloody rounds out of gold. Havent had a rifle for about ten years (thanks Johnny)But it will be a cheap way to feed the dogs.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 08 23 at 02:21 AM • permalink
I also prefer the 7mm RemMag. My rifle is a nasty piece of Savage but it’s been reworked enough to be servicable. Nothing fantastic, but generally servicable.
I like the 7mm RM for the wider variety of bullet weights and the flater trajectory.
My brother reloads the brass for the both of us. That really helps keep costs down on feeding that beast.
frollickingmole, (#149) If you are in WA, it is generally a lot easier to get a Class A (rimfire or shotgun) licence and a .22 magnum will happily drop a goat in its tracks, ammo is as cheap as chips, and there are many good rifle brands in that calibre.
If obtaining a Class B (centrefire) is not a problem (landholder permission, genuine reason, etc) then I recommend one of the many .223 bolties around. Flat shooters, accurate to 300+ with iron sights, even longer when scoped, and will be big enough for most Australian protein sources.
I am fond of the Sako/ Tikka rifles, a bit spendy, but made like a Swiss watch.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 08 23 at 06:35 AM • permalink
Did you just say a .22 shotgun I want one! That sounds like the kind of weapon we could have actual battles with just for fun (like paintballs, but with less kick).
Regardless, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO to our coolest allies in the world down in Aussieland. I hope we never part (and history suggests we won’t). Hey, in a sign of solidarity, could you guys move your continent closer to ours? It’s SUCH a long flight. It’s ridiculous really…
But it has to be give and take, so in return, we’ll deluge you with our stupid hicks (I being prominent among them) asking for shrimp on the barby or some of those cool monstrous pearls you guys make. Hmm, I’m not making a very good case for moving your continent, huh 🙁
Still, come on up here!
The way to go with the .303 is to reload. Takes about $400-550 to set up, but an enjoyable part of the hobby and the gear lasts. I am just setting up now and will start getting into it.
The reason? I’ll save 50-70% on .303 target rounds and I can make ‘em how I like ‘em. Also do .222 and 6.5mm when I get an Arisaka.
Goats are fun. Do not forget, though that goat meat can be damned tasty, especially in curry which it suits well due to its flavour. And kill every cat and fox you can. I’m a conservation hunter because my favourite haunts on the east coast have lost all the potoroos and small marsupials that used to thrive in them. Filthy cats and foxes wiped them out. I often see natives when spotlighting, of course, they are perfectly safe from me and mine! But feral vermin are another thing entirely (goats qualify).
MarkL
canberra
- MarkL
Funny enough Ive come to the same opinion. Cat, dog, goat or camel (not many where I am) are all targets, natives can bugger off, Im not intrested.
As a minor comment, I was on a mine that fought long and hard to be established due to an endangered species in the area. The numbers had been low, but after the place was up and running AND and intense baiting programme was put in place numbers had never been higher.
My point being any nob that claims to be both anti-gun and pro environment should be beaten to death.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 08 23 at 08:32 AM • permalink
With Steve’s .45-70 you can go to Alaska and take on a Grizzly bear!!! Probably 3 or 4 times bigger than a Michigan Blackbear. Keep in mind, you better get him with the first shot, he can outrun you and will eat you if you irritate him!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 23 at 08:54 AM • permalink
- Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 23 at 09:11 AM • permalink
I am a local and I don’t want the gun shop there, can you imagine how much nagging I will get from my kids to buy them guns? I presume that is why the govt bans gun advertising during childrens tv show.
{87 (Screw the guns. I am more concerned that they don’t have any pubs (though it is nice that they have 5 churches).
I am Catholic after all.)
}
There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about access to alcohol in that area, there are two clubs within 100m of the site that they are talking about. Also, a bottle shop in the same shopping strip.
Griz… big ol’ furry land sharks. Jaws with claws.
Home made howitzers are what you want for hunting land sharks.
And for y’all foreign devils…the link is to a detailed “build it yourself, from scratch” set of plans and instructions.
If y’alls gov wont let you have normal guns, then make yourself some really really big ones.
If you’re disarmed, it’s only cause you aint motivated.
I would think you could take out a whole freakin’ herd with that thing!!!!
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 08 23 at 10:54 AM • permalink
8th grader suspended for DRAWING a gun in Arizona:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/95655
Read it and weep.
found out that I juuuuuuust missed the chance to order an M1 carbine (my next long gun of choice, alas).
Jeff, Auto-Ordnance is making a new copy of the WWII carbine, and so far reports are good. Lists for $650, which is pretty spendy if you think back to when originals went for $150, but pretty reasonable now. I’d sooner spend it on this than on one of Ruger’s spaghetti-barrel Mini-14s.
You do have to grab them while they’re hot. I’m still kicking myself for passing up on a
Calico 9mm. I had an aversion to “plastic guns” at the time it was available.
New Long Gun arrives in Afstan. 12” groups at 1000m but the holes are rather larger than lesser bullets.
Cheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2007 08 23 at 04:35 PM • permalink
Y’all got your upgraded tanks? Very cool 🙂 Pun intended.
Or did I get the wrong blog entry? That gun looks like it’d shoot the kind of bullet that could make hole recovery and measurment a difficult problem.
Even the sabot rounds would tend to want to draw the rest of the target along through the hole with it by the vacuum it leaves behind it as it hustles along.
Of course, I was never a tanker, so I probably got it all upside down and sidways.
- Grimmy
That was the first of the 20 we’ve borrowed from the Germans. The main purchase from the Dutch should arrive in the Sep-Nov time frame.
Latest report from the Regiment in the RockBox here.Picture of holes in paper here. 1600mps makes a ‘06 look like a pinker.Movie with noises here.
Cheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2007 08 23 at 05:33 PM • permalink
Bore Derangement Syndrome