Root cause located

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Last updated on July 21st, 2017 at 02:48 pm

Jim Treacher—now blogging here, for money!—sends word of a site set up in cowardly response to this. Meanwhile, here’s Mark Steyn on the death of Jean Charles de Menezes:

The pathetic public execution of an innocent man on July 22 joins the events of July 21 and July 7 as a reminder of why a narrow, reactive law-enforcement approach to terrorism will always penalise the populace more than the terrorists. You win this war militarily (in the badlands of Pakistan and elsewhere) and culturally (which is a much tougher battle). Shoot-outs on the Tube aren’t going to be much help – though, if they advance from Brazilians at Stockwell to theatregoers at Leicester Square, overcrowding at the Olympics isn’t likely to be a problem.

This war might also be won at national borders, where, in the case of suspected fizz bomber Muktar Said Ibrahim, Britain evidently failed:

One of the four suspects in the attempted suicide bombings in London last week spent several years in prison as a mugger, the Telegraph can reveal.

Despite his record, Muktar Said Ibrahim, 27, also known as Muktar Mohammed Said, was granted a British passport less than a year ago. A key condition of naturalisation is that an applicant must be ‘‘of good character’‘.

The same article offers an alternative “root cause” for British terrorism: 

Sarah Scott, 23, a neighbour of the family, said that Ibrahim had given her a pamphlet, Understanding Islam, last November and had highlighted key passages.

“He talked about evil spirits,’’ she said. ‘‘He said there were a lot of evil spirits around because everyone was evil around here.’‘

Evil spirits! It was evil spirits all along.

Posted by Tim B. on 07/27/2005 at 09:55 AM
    1. Lot of response to Steyn here here no feedback on his own site yet but I don’t know how often he updates the Mailbox there,

      Not one of his best articles; I thought he let his reflexive bashing of the London PD get in the way of his common sense on this one, badly.

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 07 27 at 11:19 AM • permalink


    1. The key here is that to get a Brit or Aussie pass-port the aplicant “must be of good character.”

      The point is that if they prove NOT to be of good character we can REVOKE their citizenship and DEPORT them!!!

      Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 07 27 at 11:30 AM • permalink


    1. “EEEEVIIIIIILLL, Eevil, evil,evil,evil,evil,evil, eeevil.”

      Mermaid Man

      Posted by David A on 2005 07 27 at 11:42 AM • permalink


    1. I expect his proof of “good character” was the fervour of his new religious enthusiasm.

      Posted by rexie on 2005 07 27 at 11:50 AM • permalink


    1. “He talked about evil spirits,” she said. “He said there were a lot of evil spirits around because everyone was evil around here.”

      Fucking medieval retards.

      Whenever I hear someone talking about “evil spirits” or “demons” or the “devil”, I immediately see them in peasant garb with filthy faces. It would be funny if not for the chilling feeling that if they were in power, people would be getting burned at the stake or stoned to death for being witches or possessed or whatever.

      Posted by Dave S. on 2005 07 27 at 12:07 PM • permalink


    1. Put down the crack pipe Steyn.

      Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 27 at 01:26 PM • permalink


    1. Yeah, Steyn is a bit off his Mark with this one.

      How else are the Police to react?

      “Oy! You! Suspected suicide bomber! don’t trigger that devis…BOOM!

      It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out what authorities are left with when there are civilian clothed people who don’t give a rats a$$ about anyones lives – much less their own – trying to blow up friggin’ tubes full of men, women, and children.

      The cops can’t shoot centermass and a couple 9mm leg shots sure as hell won’t stop a terrorist from triggering a devise.

      Short of hoping and praying that the counterterrorist agents can ensure shooting off both of a terrorist’s arms in under half-a-second, that cop did the right thing. Not the 100% godlike perfection thing many folk seem to expect, but surely the right thing under less than optimal circumstances.

      Unfortunately there is no such thing as 100% sure. That’s why the terrorists choose to use these methods. They are hard to counter from within a free society that cares for its citizens.

      Maybe the legion of Anti-Warons will finally figure out the logic behind taking the fight to honeypot Iraq.

      Posted by monkeyfan on 2005 07 27 at 05:09 PM • permalink


    1. Mark is usually pretty good but I think characterising the incident as a “pathetic public execution” is a tad over the top.

      People are using the word execution pretty freely, to give the shooting the sense of being cold-blooded and summary. As I and numerous other posters have pointed out, the police didn’t execute him, they used the force thought necessary to stop someone they believed to be in the act of a very deadly crime.

      Posted by Francis H on 2005 07 27 at 06:30 PM • permalink


    1. Completely agree with Francis. We share some thoughts here.


      Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 07 27 at 06:40 PM • permalink


    1. Srely those who created the climate are primarily responsible, not the plod acting in the public interest based on a necessarily quick situational assessment?

      I think the “evil spirits” alluded to might be similar to these.

      Posted by Habib on 2005 07 27 at 08:29 PM • permalink


    1. The police attempted to apprehend the man and he bolted. Tragic mistake to shoot him, as it turns out, but who knew that at the time? Given the circumstances not stopping him could have turned out to be a greater tragedy – and while I don’t want to smear the dead man’s character, the question of why he ran ought to be investigated.

      Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2005 07 27 at 09:10 PM • permalink


    1. I kinda agree with Mark Steyn, I think the Metropolitan Police’s handling of these attacks has been nothing short of abysmal and I think someone needs to say that. The world and his aunty knew there was going to be an attack at some stage on London and we were assured that security was at its tightest yet on the day of the G8 summit and the day after London was awarded the Olympics four bombers successfully evaded security and blew up London’s transit system.

      Ok maybe there was a lapse but gee whizz two weeks later the bombers come back again only this time there’s an even bigger team and they mount precisely the same attack using precisely the same method against precisely the same targets. Not only was no terrorist intercepted before the attacks but incredibly no one was caught even after the terrorists botched the second attacks.

      After the first attack Brian Paddick the Deputy Chief Constable in charge, a man most famous for being a gay anarchist and who single handedly abolished the marijuana laws in Brixton came out with the fatuous hogwash that there was no connection between Islam and terrorism! As if to prove that they actually believed this the cops then go and plug a completely innocent Brazilian bloke. If you seriously believe that the all new touchy feely social workers in uniform that now masquerade under the once proud name of the London Metropolitan Police are on top of these terrorists you need your sanity questioned.

      On another point which I am sure will resonate with millions of Aussies what the f*** is going on with the UK Passport authority? I had a girlfriend from South Africa whose grandfather was from Yorkshire and served with the Royal Navy in World War II, he settled in Durban after the War. This girl had to apply to live in Britain for five years during which time she could claim no benefits had to work and pay taxes and not break the law before she could get a UK passport. This is exactly the same situation with countless Aussies and Kiwis who have a direct blood link with the UK, yet this Somalian gobshite comes over at 11 years old gets benefits is educated free of charge then commits robberies and is jailed but receives a British passport anyway, I tell you the UK is finished they may as well give in now and call it a day they lost the battle long before they even knew they were fighting it.

      Posted by Harry Flashman on 2005 07 27 at 11:47 PM • permalink


    1. Got to agree, Harry. The Met is a pale imitation of its former self, with successive waves of leftist-driven reviews, restructures and recruitment. SO19 is a little different, but the average beat plod is more likely now to be a sociology graduate than an East End Oik who doesn’t mind using nut, clogs and all to sort a situation. Same goes with residency- (like here) strange that if you’re an African or Southern Asian migrant, the good character requirements seem to not apply, whereas if you’re a white Anglo Saxon, you can have been resident since the age of two, but be naughty and it’s on your bike. Racism is alive and well, only difference is now it’s by proxy.

      Posted by Habib on 2005 07 28 at 12:09 AM • permalink


    1. Flashman
      i agree with you and Mark on this one.
      perhaps the next victim will be a blonde swede.
      Then Brian can stand up and say that his police force is truly multiculturist.
      And the proposed random searches at the entrance to tube stations will have to lean towards searching little old ladies with english aristocratic accents otherwise KEN Linvingstone will be onto them like a ton of Horse shit.

      Posted by davo on 2005 07 28 at 12:19 AM • permalink


    1. Not often I disagree with Mark Steyn, but we part company on this one.

      Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2005 07 28 at 12:31 AM • permalink


    1. This is exactly the same situation with countless Aussies and Kiwis who have a direct blood link with the UK, yet this Somalian gobshite comes over at 11 years old gets benefits is educated free of charge then commits robberies and is jailed but receives a British passport

      Durban and Australia are the homes of white imperialists.
      One infraction such as shoplifting conviction is equal to one hundred infractions from true victimhood nations.
      read steyn’s account of Mohamed Atta’s meeting with a US official from the argicultural grants depts.
      She even excused him when he threatened to slit her throat on the basis of “cultural deifferences”.
      Can you imagine if he had been from Durban?

      Posted by davo on 2005 07 28 at 01:08 AM • permalink


    1. I’ve advocated not second guessing the police officers who shot the Brazilian.  I still believe that.  But they need to learn from their mistakes.

      So Steyn makes a good point—if the British maintain their current “…narrow, reactive law-enforcement approach to terrorism…”, they are going to continue making those same mistakes.  As Steyn put it, those mistakes “…will always penalise the populace more than the terrorists…”.

      The first shooting was tragic.  The next one will be stupid, because it might have been avoided by widening their approach.

      “You win this war militarily (in the badlands of Pakistan and elsewhere) and culturally (which is a much tougher battle).”

      Sums it all up right there, really.

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 28 at 01:11 AM • permalink


    1. The next one will be tragic ok.
      And it is extremely unlikely to be a jihadist or would be suicide bomber. They know all they have to do is surrender.
      The British press, the civil rights socialist workers party, and the Islamic councils will flock to their aid .
      This from george Orwell in 1942 as the Germans approached the gates of Moscow!…the greater part of the very young intelligentsia are anti-war … don’t believe in any ‘defense of democracy,’ are inclined to prefer Germany to Britain, and don’t feel the horror of Fascism that we who are somewhat older feel

      has anything chaged at all?

      Posted by davo on 2005 07 28 at 03:01 AM • permalink


    1. 1.  Steyn is brilliant.  Too bad the US newspapers pay so little for the sindication of any article, including his.

      2. Here is another take on the Tube shootout.



      Posted by dtlc on 2005 07 28 at 04:00 AM • permalink


    1. Evil spirits? I thought it was those pesky thetans.

      Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 07 28 at 05:56 AM • permalink


    1. Evil spirits!!  And I thought those buggers didn’t drink!

      Posted by TonyD on 2005 07 28 at 08:18 AM • permalink


    1. Nilknarf—For a few more easy payments, we can clear those thetans right off your engrams and free you from the urge to watch any more Tom Cruise movies…

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 07 29 at 02:55 PM • permalink


    1. Steyn’s article was the first to inform me that the police were plain-clothes cops.

      Jesus Christ.  You can’t implement a shoot-to-kill policy using plain-clothes cops!  Before I knew this I thought the victim was a Darwin award candidate, and I fully sympathised with those who argued against second-guessing the cops.  Not anymore.

      Posted by Tom O’Bedlam on 2005 07 30 at 06:46 PM • permalink


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