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Last updated on March 5th, 2018 at 01:45 pm
Professor John Quiggin writes:
In the leadup to the Iraq war, we were repeatedly told that anyone who disagreed with the rush to war, or criticised the Bush Administration, was anti-American.
It’d be helpful if the Professor supplied some evidence of this.
- Stop trying to crush his dissent by demnading evidence.Posted by Ross on 2005 11 19 at 02:11 PM • permalink
- “Battle of the Broads” indeed. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving broad.Posted by Mystery Meat on 2005 11 19 at 02:34 PM • permalink
- It’s called “projection”…Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 19 at 02:54 PM • permalink
- From Quiggin’s post:
…though, obviously, the engineers must be pretty hostile…
Another qrazy qlaim—I’m an engineer, and I’m not hostile.
More to the point, those “academics” no more represent American opinion than does the “Hollywood elite”. I’m thinking that someone figured out that using ALec Baldwin and Sean Penn as Anti-War Poster Children was a bad idea, and they thought they’d try the professionals associations next. God knows the unions are way behind the power curve on this one.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 19 at 03:38 PM • permalink
- …we were repeatedly told that anyone who disagreed with the rush to war, or criticised the Bush Administration, was anti-American.
Methinks it was his own conscience that told him that. Damn that cognitive dissonance.
And only somebody with a job for life (or one with no job at all) would describe over a year of UN dillydallying as “rush” to war.
- Anti-war activist types were screaming at the tops of their lungs, even before the invasion of Afghanistan, “Don’t you DARE question my patriotism!” which then became the Democrats’ campaign slogan in the 2004 Election. Questioning their intelligence and their judgement, definitely, but their patriotism? Yes, please, let’s see some evidence.Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 19 at 04:35 PM • permalink
- Would itd? Sorry, very picky of moi.
Well, generally speaking most peace activists are anti-American, but I’m not going to waste my time looking for evidence because I just know it’s true.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 11 19 at 05:03 PM • permalink
- As I have said before about Quiggin, Arty, I don’t look at his site because he looks like a wolf.
A girl could get very frightened when confronted by such a sight.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 11 19 at 05:05 PM • permalink
- We did not have to be told. It is on the record. If you want evidence of anti-americanism, just pull out the Hansard for the debate in our Federal Parliament before the war. Some of the ALP speakers made no pretence about their anti-USA perspective. I was painting the house then and listened – usually you can say that watching paint dry is more interesting than parliamentary broadcasts, but that day was an exception.
- This re-writing of history is going on all the time. Recently a US Congress Rep Murtha argued for leaving Iraq quickly and hiding ‘over the horizon’ in case the sudden withdrawal went disastrously wrong [as it would]. Madness.
To its credit, the Reps voted him down 400 to 3. A lot of his Dem. political mates thought he was ‘anti-American’ too.The analytical confusion is also about the present. The latest Time has a major article which avoids ‘Moslem’ completely, and uses ‘Arab’ once in describing the French riots, claiming the rioters are actually wanting to integrate with France. Charles Krauthammer in the same issue stresses the Muslim ethnics as a ‘monoculture’ that has contempt for the godless decadence of French secularism. He also says the riots are a clear result of French ‘appeasement’.
Which is is -it can’t really be both..
- The “rush to war”?!? Sadam had more than a decade after his first brush with American military power to clean up his act. As to the quick action taken in Afghanistan, speed is exactly what was required to put the Taliban and their Al-Quaeda masters on the run. If Gore had been elected president, we’d still be negotiating with the U.N. to implement economic sanctions against Afghanistan.
Sortelli, your comment puts me in mind of a line from Wodehouse: the fellow “looks as if he’d been stuffed by an incompetent taxidermist in a hurry”.
- A couple of gems from ABC’s Insiders today.
1. Kevin Rudd, trying to look as if he is authoritative on the Middle East, said that there were reports that Al Quaeda could be seeking to increase its activities in Jordan. Krudd will (I’m sure) be watching out for telltale signs like hotel suicide bombings, statements from Zarqawi, attacks on US Navy Vessels in Aqaba.
2. Smirking Secco (Mike Seccombe) said that the Government had so politicised things, it was probably impossible for them to get unbiassed advice from any of their advisers.
This is rich, coming from a SMH journalist. You won’t get Secco politicising things, no sir. Nor any of his colleagues like David Marr, Marian Wilkinson, Adele Horin.
- No, what we were repeatedly told beginning 9/12/01 was that the brutal Afghan winter would make an invasion impossible, Osama bin Laden had legitimate grievances about El Salvador and the bombing of Cambodia (but not East Timor, of course, Professor Chomsky), American hegemony was oppressive and imperial, Bush was Hitler, John Ashcroft was Hitler, the Patriot Act would mean owning books was illegal, France had moral authority, Iraq had nothing to do with any other political activity in the middle east ever, including the Iran-Iraq War, torture had been introduced to the middle east by Americans, and American soldiers routinely gun down journalists. Oh, and 9/11 was all a plot of the Mossad, anyway. After that bunch of crap, I stopped listening to people on what had once been my side.
- Yeah…Ari Fleischer never, ever told Americans to “ watch what they say, watch what they do”, did he?
And boy, Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame certainly found out the White House didn’t mean business there, huh?
But back to Tim’s subject de passion-The crazy anti-car nazis in Victoria, Australia.
Tim, isn’t it outrageous that the freedom-loving driver who “sped”, ran a red light and put me in this hospital until at least January (unless my pelvis turns septic) might face jail time, licence suspension and a large lawsuit?
This is yet another example of the Victorian road rules and legal system cramping the style of a real man who understands that a car is built to bow to no mortal save its owner.
I really do believe you should start a legal defence fundraising drive on your site for the young individualist road warrior who had the misfortune of having his vehicular pleasure interrupted by my disgusting, pedestrian 63 kilogram form. You could post a photograph of me, altered “O.J Simpson -on-Time Magazine-cover” style, to illustrate my dark plans to hurt the car industry. You could turn me into the petrolheads’ Benedict Arnold! What are you waiting for?
Aren’t I an excellent one-fingered typist?
Posted by Pastor Maker on 2005 11 19 at 07:53 PM • permalink
- Mr Maker, if you can’t understand why Ari Fleischer telling the press that they shouldn’t complain when their trash talk gets criticised (which is what he meant), then you aren’t going to understand anything else you read here—or anywhere. I suggest you shut off the computer and get some sleep; getting upset over what you read on blogs can’t be helping your broken bones heal.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 19 at 08:03 PM • permalink
Aren’t I an excellent one-fingered typist?
I got an extra finger for you right here if you need it.
Yeah…Ari Fleischer never, ever told Americans to “ watch what they say, watch what they do”, did he?
Sigh. Why do I feel 100% certain that a Google search will turn up an original quote that’s miles from saying that? I’ll get back to you tomorrow, I have to watch “Lost” now on my DVR. Priorities.
And boy, Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame certainly found out the White House didn’t mean business there, huh?
You obviously know jack shit about this story to make that comment.
- I always look at the name of the commenter before I read their comment. It helps me to know how much attention to put to their writing.
Pastor maker? Ah, I remember thee well. On to the next comment.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 19 at 08:08 PM • permalink
- Why is it that the Left routinely and deliberately misconstrue what someone on the Right says, but howl in wounded protest that they’ve been misquoted when their words, in full context, are thrown back at them?Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 19 at 08:50 PM • permalink
- As I recall, Ari Fleischer wasn’t just talking about leftist criticism of the war, but some stupid Republican Congressman making a comment about “towel heads” or the like. It was, like the term “idiotarian”, a universal admonishment.
But when has truth mattered to the left? Certainly never in my lifetime.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 11 19 at 09:09 PM • permalink
- For Pastor Maker, from the 26 September 2001 White House press conference:
Q As Commander-In-Chief, what was the President’s reaction to television’s Bill Maher, in his announcement that members of our Armed Forces who deal with missiles are cowards, while the armed terrorists who killed 6,000 unarmed are not cowards, for which Maher was briefly moved off a Washington television station?
MR. FLEISCHER: I have not discussed it with the President, one. I have —
Q Surely, as a —
MR. FLEISCHER: I’m getting there.
Q Surely as Commander, he was enraged at that, wasn’t he?
MR. FLEISCHER: I’m getting there, Les.
Q Okay.
MR. FLEISCHER: I’m aware of the press reports about what he said. I have not seen the actual transcript of the show itself. But assuming the press reports are right, it’s a terrible thing to say, and it unfortunate. And that’s why—there was an earlier question about has the President said anything to people in his own party—they’re reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do. This is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.
Emphasis is mine. Ari Fleischer did say that, but the context expressed by Pastor Maker is not even close to being the same. I scanned through the previous transcript, and this is all I could find relating to saying “…anything to people in his own party…”:
Q Has the President had any communication with Representative Cooksey regarding his comments on Sikh Americans? And does he have a message for lawmakers and members of his party in particular about this issue?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President’s message is to all Americans. It’s important for all Americans to remember the traditions of our country that make us so strong and so free, our tolerance and openness and acceptance. All Americans—and we come from a very rich cultural heritage, no matter what anybody’s background in this country. And that’s the strength of this country, and that’s the President’s message that he expressed in his speech to Congress and as he has done when he visited the mosque a week ago Monday, and in the meetings that he’s hosting here at the White House today with Muslim Americans and Sikh Americans.
Q Did he speak to Representative Cooksey, and what were his reactions upon hearing those?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President was very disturbed by those remarks.
There is NOTHING in these quotes saying anything close to “In the leadup to the Iraq war, we were repeatedly told that anyone who disagreed with the rush to war, or criticised the Bush Administration, was anti-American.”
Once again, we see history revisioning and quoting out of context for a leftie to “prove” his/her “point”. And not even in a close call. PM must be terminally ill with BDS to be this crocked.
God, it must be wonderful to live in a fantasy world where everything exists because you think it does. Pastor Maker, I’m hungry; wish me up a plate of bratwurst, would you?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 19 at 09:31 PM • permalink
- Hey, you think we don’t know you damn furrners is anti-American: why it’s right there in the movies. Look at the new Zorro movie:
An evil foreign organization (clearly the UN) is planning a terrorist strike against the United States in conjuntion with the Southern States (the Democrats!)¡El Zorro es el primeiro neocon grande! Coming soon: The Mask of Rove!Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 19 at 09:31 PM • permalink
- My god, tim…You certainly have a great circle jerk going here! And Andrea, You can be condescending to me the day after you wipe my ass post-bedpan. Or maybe I can fed-ex you a stool sample and you can email me a pic of it in your hands…But until then, blow me. Wait, on second thought, please don’t. I’m not that desperate…yet.Posted by Pastor Maker on 2005 11 19 at 10:32 PM • permalink
- I am leaving Pastor Maker’s comment up as an example of what will get you banned. By the way, Mr Maker should not bother emailing me to curse and complain—I have set my email filters to send anything emailed from him to go straight to trash.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 19 at 10:37 PM • permalink
- PS: I believe Mr Maker is in the hospital “suffering” from various dreadful injuries about as much as I believe unicorns will descend from the sky bearing baskets of chocolate truffles.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 19 at 10:38 PM • permalink
- Shucks! Here I am, waiting for that plate of bratwurst. At times, life can truly suck.Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 19 at 10:47 PM • permalink
- With any luck at all Pastor Faker was hit by an illegal Iranina without a driver’s license. Poetic justice and all, you know.
Like most of the Left he obviously doesn’t even attempt to use truth, that’s too limiting when trying to convince people of the absurd.
I wouldn’t believe him and his ilk if they said the sun was rising in the East.
Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2005 11 19 at 11:14 PM • permalink
Why is it that the Left routinely and deliberately misconstrue what someone on the Right says, but howl in wounded protest that they’ve been misquoted when their words, in full context, are thrown back at them?
I got into an argument with a Lefty who howled with righteous indignation about Bill O’Reilly saying that “we should carpet-bomb the Arab world.” I’m no fan of Bill, but that didn’t pass the smell test. Turns out he said something about how we should consider bombing Mecca if Islamofascists nuke New York. Bit of a difference.
Lefty’s reply was of the “But still,…” variety. “But still” means “I was 100% wrong, but this way I can avoid admitting it.”
- I believe Mr. Maker suffers from disorders a little more serious and a lot less curable than broken bones. Something in him is broken, though, poor man. Lifetime counseling and heavy meds may help.
In case no one has spotted it at Instapundit yet, here is a link that lays out the timeline of our decades old war with Saddam Hussein. I believe the Democrats have a lot to answer for, starting with Bill Clinton, who I used to like.
- #27
SMH Whispers, jokes and insults making Muslim lives hell by Taghred Chandab
Our colleagues who know we are Muslim make jokes. One of my friends was called a terrorist when she went to work. It was meant to be a joke. Not a funny joke.The comment was made by someone she had worked with for nine years. Of course, my friend was upset and she was horrified. She told me she cancelled all her appointments for the day and sat at her desk staring blankly at her computer screen.
Well f.u. if you can’t take a joke. The correct response would have been ‘Piss off, sheep shagger’. BTW, get back to work, you limp waste of space.
It’s the Australian way to make tasteless jokes and lay shit on our friends for fun, and we don’t do it to people we don’t like or don’t know well. The fact that they worked together for 9 years was what had the joker thinking they could actually have a laugh with that person. But it just goes to show you can associate with some people for a looong time and not really know what’s going on between their ears.
If you get my drift.
— Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 11 19 at 11:42 PM • permalink
- off topic but i’m in perth briefly and tuned to ABC FM 8am news Saturday, surely one of their prime slots. The first word on the bulletin was “Greenpeace” and the item continued about Greenpeace having various views against genetically modified foods.
i mean wtf, the ABC’s love affair with Greenpeace is the romance of the century.
I am not aware that Greenpeace per se has any scientific credentials whatsoever, it is a mere lobby/activist group.
Geez my taxpayer dollars at work 🙁
- I have to say, even as trolls go, Master Bater (great one, Dave) seems to be completely unhinged. First he sets the dial on the Lefty Hogwash Spew-O-Matic to “Politics – U.S.”, then he launches into a self-pitying harangue about his unfortunate encounter with a wreckless driver, which he somehow manages to blame on Tim. He finishes up with a vile personal attack on our own Lady Andrea (for this the cad deserves to be called out, which I now do; I suggest bedpans at 10 paces).
- Insidious today on your ABC.
Cast:SBS’s Karen Middletum,Sydney Morning Trumpet’s Mike Second and Piers Akerman daily telegram (token right).
Host:Bazza(hopeis gone)Cassidy.
Agenda:agitprop.
Amanda Vanston speech to South Australian Rotary club presented as trilogy.
Cass-“her speech was like a B grade horror scenario”-(she joked about taking an hb pencil on a plane and using it to poke someone in the eye or using a wineglass as a weapon- as we all do when told not to take talcum powder or nail clippers on board an aircraft.)
Seccombe had the grace to say “well she’s right in one sense.”
Hopalong persisted in describing the speech as Amanda Vanstone unplugged.ha ha.
When confronted with the low turnout of marchers for the I.R. march in Melbourne they talked of “thousands of others there in spirit”.. can they put a number on that??
Talk of Tony Abbot and abortion pill -I sympathize with their view.However when they bitterly denounce the gov with “getting the advice that it wants”they must remember that the ABC,SBS and American PBS (so frequently employed against the Howard Government) ONLY EVER INVITE COMMENTATORS OF THE LEFT OR EXTREME LEFT to have a voice on their networks.
Amusingly Seccombe accused the feds of excluding the abortion pill for 100% of the people when only 1% could be negatively(where medical services are poorly represented e.g.rural) affected.
Why then do the M.S.M and ABC/SBS demand that Anti Terror Legislation NOT be put in place to protect 100% of Australians when ONLY 1% of the people(if that) would be affected…..
Next to condemned Singaporean prisoner Nguyen(whom I feel has been scapegoated and does not deserve the death penalty.) and Rudd (alp) got a long uninterrupted run on how Howard has “mishandled the case”.
Then A.W.B.,Bruce Bowow with Petty cartoonist,then Seccombe with”there is far more talent on the Lib back bench than the logs on the front bench.”Howard meeting Bush in a very friendly manner ended show.
Btw is Bazza Cassidy emulating Carmen’s fleeting brush with the Cad bury Top Deck hair confectin.
- Kohler’s Inside Business on your ABC;
Nasty little jab at the PM.
“Johnny must be at a loose end now not running Telstra.He wants to run Qantas instead.”
Telstra’s Sol Trujillo repayed the public funded media though with a playful little quip of his own.”Mexican hat dances,three amigos and riding off into the sunset” must have been at the forefront of his mind when he said he felt all the Mum’s and Dad’s shareholders needed to be looked after too.
“They are ALL MY AMIGOS” he commented with a very old fashioned look at the interviewer.
She told me she cancelled all her appointments for the day and sat at her desk staring blankly at her computer screen.
He used… *gulps drink* sarcasm. You know, parody, irony, litotes…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 20 at 12:18 AM • permalink
- The Real JeffS — “Progressives” want absolute authority and attention paid to their words, and absolutely NO accountability for the consequences of their utterances.
The most common thing I ever heard when “Countermarching” peace protesters, whenever I would point to the Red, racist, antisemitic vermin they were marching side by side with, was “Well, I can’t be responsible for what they say,” with the unspoken: I just want their numbers in my parade to make me look more oppressive.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 20 at 12:34 AM • permalink
- Too true, richard. For further proof, read the transcripts from the US House of Representatives last Friday……Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 20 at 12:44 AM • permalink
- 63 kg, eh?
This type of man I once had described by a Senior Sergeant as, “a scroaty little guy…”
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; he thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
PM need a 1kg steak and chips and regular intervals. A good antidote for depression and scroatiness.
On the other hand, perhaps he’s 4’ 10” tall?
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 11 20 at 01:29 AM • permalink
- The Real JeffS — Oh, we’ll be reading those through 2006, easy…Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 20 at 01:30 AM • permalink
- She told me she cancelled all her appointments for the day and sat at her desk staring blankly at her computer screen.
Whats the bet she is an employee – public servant? – rather than working for herself.
Yet another good reason for IR changes.
Did the bitch accept full pay for sitting on her arse doing nothing all day?
- ’Pasta Maker’ at 63 kilos needs to get off that vegetarian diet and eat some meat and be a MAN, (or woman as the case may be).
Gees, my 4 kilo Fox Terrier could kick it’s arse.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 20 at 03:03 AM • permalink
- …we were repeatedly told that anyone who disagreed with the rush to war, or criticised the Bush Administration, was anti-American.
In the world of the far left, from a social-democratic perspective, whatever, there are only two kinds – victims and oppressors. Victimhood is the only entree to what used to be called ‘heroism’, therefore.
The massed grave kind of victim doesn’t rate because (a) he or she is dead and can’t indulge in self-pity and (b)may be dead at the hands of a non-caucasian in which case the outrage must be ignored or put down to ‘culture’.
Do-nothing, self-righteous pacifist whining will make you a ‘brave dissenter’.
- O/T – Professor Windschuttle excoriates Australian Maoists in a Quadrant article:
In the Seventies, Maoism in Australia became radical chic. Celebrities such as advertising executive Phillip Adams and ambassador to China Stephen Fitzgerald turned Mao caps and jackets into fashionable attire…After New York ‘s Andy Warhol produced his silk screen multiple portraits of the great helmsman in 1972, the National Gallery of Australia purchased a copy. Sydney celebrity artist Brett Whiteley followed with a number of social realist paintings acclaiming life in China under Communism. As part of a series of portraits of his artistic heroes, van Gogh, Gauguin and Bacon, Whiteley added one of Chairman Mao in full military dress.
Interesting that neither Adams nor Fitzgerald have learned anything. Adams is still, well, Adams-the-unreconstructed-lefty, and Fitzgerald remains a China sycophant and booster.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 11 20 at 03:55 AM • permalink
- Re the Winschuttle article-I wasn’t aware that Country Joe and the Fish were a Maoist rock group or that Wendy Bacon of Four Corners fame wrote “the Little Red Schoolbook.”Didn’t know that “Redgum” was set up as such(Maoist) by Flinders Uni and that multi culti radio 3CR was controlled by a Maoist group 76 to 1978.Didn’t know Richard Wherret of Nimrod theatre was a maoist,Jim Bacon was a marxist leninist or prof Joe Camilleri was..Neither did I know ABC journalist Darce Cassidy(married to Radio National’s Julie Rigg) was a Maoist.
Is Barry Cassidy ABC journalista any relation then? Were Jo Jo Zep and the Falcons related to Prof Camillieri? Fascinating…
- The left – like a girl who keeps falling for the same racy, dishonest kind of guy, rather than the straight but reliable type. There’s something attractive to the left in any regime that is somewhat flamboyant and definitely not conservative. The fact that it will all end in tears again does not seem to matter.
- In response to the flak, Quiggin has now added a couple of links supporting his claim. I remember Greg Sheridan suggesting that opposition to the invasion was motivated by anti-Americanism, too.
So, were we “repeatedly told”? I’ll leave that to the nit-pickers and hair-splitters; this all strikes me as a tad petty.
- o/t ABC site..Dutch animal lovers are mourning a sparrow which was shot dead after it knocked over thousands of dominoes at an exhibition hall.An exterminator shot the sparrow because the four million dominoes had taken weeks to set up.
The sparrow will be commemorated on a live tv broadcast of the event after a national wave of outrage.Dutch animal rights campaigners are outraged as sparrows are a protected species in the Netherlands.Hundreds of condolence messages have been posted on a website set up especially and 200,000 hits have been received at the site.
- #66 and that multi culti radio 3CR was controlled by a Maoist group…
3CR stands for ‘Community Radio’ but it has always been known as Three Communists Radio (I thought that was well known…apparently not).
#70 – Sparrows protected? Sheesh. Not in Australia. Remember when the Department of Agriculture (I recall) sent a posse of heavily armed men in pursuit of a handful of sparrows that came out of a grain ship in Perth? They got them all in the end, the last couple being blasted out of the sky somewhere near Esperance or Eucla after a hunt of some weeks.
Many an exciting hour was spent as a 10 year pinging spoggies with a friend’s Daisy. Happy days – when you could walk around the streets with an air rifle shooting at birds and cans. Try that these days and you’ll be arrested and subjected to psychotherapy.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 11 20 at 06:57 AM • permalink
- Follow one of the Quiggin justification links, and you’ll see it was Oliver North telling Ted Kennedy what a twit he was.
Bit of poetic license there, John Q.
Oh yes, and that bit about only “Astroturf” Science Blogs supporting Bush? I take that personally. State your evidence, Quiggin, or be revealed as someone willing to blatantly lie if it supports The Cause.
Oh yes, while you’re at it, ditch the picture of the genetically modified hamster or whatever it is on the blog. Ewwwwww
- In the leadup to the Iraq war, we were repeatedly told that anyone who disagreed with the rush to war, or criticised the Bush Administration, was anti-American
I just called them ‘tools’ (in my oafish and infantile way).
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 11 20 at 08:25 AM • permalink
- ’Tools’ is good, Art. I called them ‘useful idiots’ myself. Nice to see that Quiggins has kept that title alive.Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 20 at 11:30 AM • permalink
- rog — Pastor Maker… in America, we call those Altar Boys.Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 20 at 11:33 AM • permalink
- Blogstrop
flamboyant and definitely not conservative
Funny thing about the left. These Marxist/Leninist groups, whatever they call themselves, always end up as ultra-conservatives (for want of a better word), reactionaries of the left. They want their regime entrenched and everyone else obliterated. Their idea of freedom is freedom to (be a part of them), no concept of freedom from; that is considered dangerous and criminal individualism. It all ends up totalitarian and fascist.
- crash
ABC online has a new feature Iraq after Saddam,a daily lineup..Out of the twenty five stories,twenty four appear to be negative…
Of course they are. The UN, the EU, the US State Department, and their Lamestream Media shills value “Stability” above all else. So what if Saddam was a murderous despot, the regional political situation was stable, fergodsake.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 20 at 02:34 PM • permalink
- Yeah, I know your type Pastor Master. Pissed at the ubiquitous, polluting motor vehicle, you storm around town decrying those who rely on them for transport.
Then arriving at an intersection you barge across at the first opportunity, in spite of approaching vehicles, yelling in your tiny mind, ‘Hey, pedestrians have rights !’.
Sure, you may be legally entitled to enter said intersection, but to then argue as much from a hospital bed simply demonstrates your stupidity. Dope.
- Man, and I used to just use Q-tips to clean my M16 breech… “Blot up another bit, that one there looks like it has leadership potential…”Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 20 at 07:03 PM • permalink
- I’m reminded of Jackson Browne’s plaintive lyric, “You hear it all the time: ‘My country wrong or right.’”
I’d love to ask him who, and when.
Posted by Rittenhouse on 2005 11 20 at 07:05 PM • permalink
- Thank you Tim!
I’m glad someone finally drew attention to this ‘anti-American accusation’ bullshit! It’s actually the Left who are trying to stifle debate. They want to make a point about Bush or the war and resent when someone else counters their argument.
I saw a documentary on SBS a couple of months ago, made before 9/11, where similar characters made exactly the same spurious claims over a stoush about the Enola Gay’s place in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington. Those who either didn’t want the Enola Gay in the museum or wanted it displayed with gory pics of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, made the same bullshit claim that their right to speak out was being labelled as “anti-American” whenever their views were challenged. Saying that they’re being labelled as anti-American is just THEIR way of shutting down the debate. It’s becoming the standard response. It isn’t just associated with Bush, the Iraq war or 9/11 although that’s what they’re making it out to be.
- #66 Crash -you’re just learning some Left Palaeontology. The deep strata go something like this:
1930-1970 ‘Vote Communist.’
1965+ ‘I’m a revolutionary Maoist, the New Type of Mankind!’
1975 ‘Thank Marx that the US lost in Vietnam. Now world revolution is vindicated. The future is ours!’
1977 ‘Pol Pot is creating a Just New Society with the legacy of the Great Mao’.
1980 ‘I never supported Pol Pot. Thank Marx for the heroic, progressive Vietnamese liberators.’
1982 ‘All criticism of Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, East Germany etc is just lies.’
1985 ‘Reagan’s aggression endangers the world. Thank Marx for the sane Gorbachev
and his necessary Leninist reforms.
1989 ‘A tragic year, but only a temporary setback. The Chinese leaders fortunately kept their heads, so only few have to roll.’
1989+ ‘Vote Greens, vote Democrats!’
1990 ‘Don’t reunite Germany and endanger the world. The USSR must survive. Afhanistan had to be modernised by the USSR, and Tibet by China.’
1994 I never supported the corrupt USSR’s form of Marxism. I was always a Maoist.
1996 ‘Look how capitalism is destroying all the good work of Gorbie. Communism looks good again!.
1997 ‘The Aussie communist parties were just loyal opposition that outlived the times when they were *needed*.’
2000+ ‘Let’s document those lovable, quirky Aussie communists on the ABC, before they all die. They’re misunderstood.’
2002+ ‘Of course Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were very flawed, idealistic leaders. I always said so. But World Hegemonists Howard, Blair and Bush are far worse!’
2004 ‘The radical Islamists have many just grievances we need to respond to. Their suicide bombers are sincere, brave idealists with no alternative.’
2005 ‘Fight Western Capitalism!’
- Yeah Barrie yeah.
O/T Abc wrings its hands and bullies Howard and others(also via Rudd)about Van Nguyen this am.Tragic case but if only the media,(in particular ABC,SBS,JJJ,the Glass House,Spicks n Specks,Paul McDermott and others,actors and comedians and bands) didn’t giggle and snigger and laud drugs then kids wouldn’t think there was something so absolutely fabulous about them.
They should also stop showcasing civil libertarians who represent minuscle numbers of people and thus giving them so much power.The Greens advocate no controls on drugs-start your preaching with them ABC instead of genuflecting to them…Attack the state governments like Victoria and W.A. which have dropped controls on cannabis despite the punishing evidence that it causes severe mental illnesses in many kids.Support the family instead of anarchy and don’t BLEAT to us about how sad it all is(the death penalty)we already know.
- #86 Barrie
Brilliant, but can I add
1933 – 1939: Hitler is the bloody assasin of the workers and must be stopped from destroying the Soviet Union;
1939 – 1941: Hitler is no worse than Churchill and he’s no threat to the Soviet Union;
1941 – 1945: Hitler is the bloody assasin of the workers and must be stopped from destroying the Soviet Union;Posted by Consuela Potez on 2005 11 20 at 08:41 PM • permalink
- Just google Alexander Downer Anti American. Case closed.
But there’s more:
“Anti-Americanism” is one of the more recent contrivances to emerge from
the pro-war propaganda machine. Fully briefed, Foreign Affairs Minister
Alexander Downer has told us that those opposing a war on Iraq have been
indoctrinated into this virulent form of prejudice.Lest we miss the thrust of Downer’s profound observation, certain newspaper
columnists have patriotically come to the fore to rid us of this terrible
stain on our history and character.Gerard Henderson in the Sydney Morning Herald (4.2.03) used the
occasion to attack novelist Graham Greene, the film based on his book The
Quiet American and its director, Phillip Noyce. Over at The Australian
newspaper Greg Sheridan (6.2.03) announced that we are sick and need
our heads examined.“Anti-Americanism should be studied as a serious psychological affliction,
a pathological condition which paralyses the mind’s analytical capacity”,
said Sheridan. Nothing less than a case of mass psychosis.Henderson and his Sydney Institute think tank are in the constant throes of
rewriting history for the glory of imperialist conquest. This involves
denigrating socialism and its supporters, past and present.As such his column is a witch hunt straight out of the Cold War: a vendetta
in which he names names, compiling a blacklist for the settling of scores
and the muddying of reputations.The Quiet American is set in Vietnam during the death throes of
French colonial occupation, and when the US was preparing the ground for
what became one of its dirtiest and bloodiest military aggressions.Henderson sweeps this aside in order to label Noyce and Greene anti-
American. He attacks Noyce’s film for not portraying communist fighters in
Vietnam as murderers and terrorists, implying that Noyce, because of his
progressive leanings, was, and still is, part of a communist conspiracy.Sheridan’s angle is to tally up all of the people around the world who he
considers should be getting the treatment. In Australia it’s the
“chattering classes” (those opposing and speaking out against the war).Then there are those in America who oppose the war; the anti-Americanism of
Europe; “Arab anti-Americanism”; and an affliction he calls universal anti-
Americanism because “the US is so rich and so big, whatever you don’t like
in human nature you can find in abundance there”.Sheridan then applies the Freudian test to a demographic: spoiled Western
baby boomers who “have never passed psychologically beyond the stage of
adolescence with the US as their simultaneously forbidding and indulgent
parents.”There are those who simply hate George W Bush, which according to Sheridan
equates to being anti-Christian. By Sheridan’s own reckoning pretty much
the whole world is against the USA.But the peddlers of this anti-Americanism theory have carefully stepped
around a fundamental question.This is their avoidance of the word “people” and its replacement with
categories based on race (Arab), on place (Europe), generation (baby
boomers) vague allusions (the chattering classes) and psycho babble.The people of Australia were by and large horrified by the terrorist
attacks on September 11 and sympathetic toward the victims.Where was this anti-Americanism when Australian firefighters traveled to
the US and worked side by side with their fellow firefighters in New York,
and when the US firefighters came here to help out during the recent fires?Or when Australian maritime workers went to the US to rally in solidarity
with American dock workers who were under attack by waterfront employers
and the Bush administration?When the likes of Downer, Henderson and Sheridan lecture us on anti-
Americanism, they mean we should embrace George W Bush and the ruling class
he represents.Unlike Bush and co who are exploiting the tragedy and horror of those
attacks (as the Howard Government has exploited the attack in Bali) for
their own murderous ends, the people’s response is a practical expression
of the bond between the world’s most profuse class, the working class.
- Now, that’s some authoritative source you’re quoting there, Nemmy.
Tom Pearson is a staff writer for “The Guardian” (…), newspaper of the Socialist Party of Australia
Snort. Guess your semi-reasonable period was just that; a temporary lapse in misjudgement, so to speak.
Incidentally, quoting entire articles is generally a no-no, but then maybe a staff writer for a socialist newspaper won’t be concerned with silly things like copyright, so you’re probably in the clear.
- And just in case you’re going to accuse me of shooting the messenger, i.e. Pearson: Anybody who asserts that it’s right-wingers who are avoiding the word “people” in favour of category-based thinking is clearly off his rocker and not to be taken seriously. We’re not the guys who, say, make claims with an “Arabs just aren’t capable of democracy” thrust, remember?
I hope your next attempt at an argument will amount to more than 5 seconds of half-assed googling, Nemmy.
- PW,
That crap is so laughable, it makes me wonder if Nemmy is actually a Froll.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 21 at 02:07 AM • permalink
- Hey, Nemlette,
I knew it was you, you silly, mad boy! Cutting and pasting again? One thing just nags at me, Nemster, what on earth do you imagine all that drivel is supposed to prove to anyone here? This is the land of the right-wing death beast, NemmerNemmerLand. We only come out of our caves to feast on the raw flesh of war protesters. Since they’re mostly vegetarians, they are delicious. None of that unappealing predator flavor to ‘em.
BTW, Graham Greene was a proud anti-American. He hated America and he made no secret of it though he sometimes used cute evasions like, “I am no more anti-American than I am anti-Italian…” leaving us to wonder, well, is he anti-Italian? At other times, however, he just let it fly:
“If I had to choose between life in the Soviet Union and life in the United States of America, I would certainly choose the Soviet Union, just as I would choose life in Cuba to [sic] life in those southern American republics, like Bolivia, dominated by their northern neighbor, or life in North Vietnam to life in South Vietnam.”
Graham Greene, as quoted by Christopher Hitchens in The Atlantic Monthly.
Here’s another place to look, one you’ll feel more at home with, The Guardian. This article will tickle you even pinker, Nemmie Nemmie Num-Nums, chronicling as it does the many totalitarian regimes he preferred to the horrid U.S.Well, thanks for the visit, you’ve been unimpressive, as usual. See you, I dunno, never? Sound good? Let’s do that then.
- Beware Olrence! The ominous tread of She Who Must Be Obeyed is echoing in the corridor outside.
Run for your life!
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2005 11 21 at 06:21 AM • permalink
- Nemesis, if you quote one more entire long article without attribution, I will ban you. I know you leftists aren’t into recognizing intellectual property but there are laws.
Apropos of nothing, folks, you can go into your profile and pick avatars to represent you. Just so happens the default file has the perfect image for clueless leftists.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 21 at 08:00 AM • permalink
- I’d rather be a dissident in the US than here, they have a bill of rights, but what do we have? “Implied Rights” under the constitution that make absolutely no sense. Plus the media in the US is more balanced, they don’t have a taxpayer funded media corporation that seems to be made up of tree hugging lefties (The ABC). People who seemingly get paid for the sole purpose of making the Prime Minister’s life hard.
- Gblair – check out former NSW premier Bob Carr’s employment priors, if you reckon Alan Carpenter’s on the nose.
And NT Chief Minister Claire Martin, while we’re at it.
Posted by James Waterton on 2005 11 22 at 11:39 AM • permalink
- #107
We have a federally funded radio station called National Public Radio which is run by and for leftists, as is PBS on TV. But they are not as big as the Australian ABC (though many of my friends listen to NPR all day long!).
Here, the left is astonished when anyone criticises NPR or says it has leftwing bias. They do not think that their position is left of center. They actually think they ARE the center. I have found that to be true of many liberals. To them, what they think is the only truly rational, “regular” way of thinking. They really believe that. It seems to be a default position for them mentally. The way they see things is the most sensible way. Everything else is an abberation, hence they see us as sick in some way, or damaged mentally or emotionally. It’s strange, but I recall thinking exactly like that when I was in my twenties and thirties. To think differently requires a kind of epiphany, like, Oh…shit. The terrorists don’t give a rat’s ass about my kind & understanding approach to them. In fact, they see it as a weakness and they encourage me to be that way while they just murder and maim more and more innocent civilians. Their aim is to make the world into one big Islamic theocra…WHOA! Damn! What just happened? I…I’m a f*cking conservative? Noooooooooooo!
- #110: The phrase I’ve heard from time to time about NPR is “National Proletarian Radio.”Posted by Bruce Lagasse on 2005 11 22 at 03:35 PM • permalink
- OTish—Just a note, the violence that is over in France and certainly wasn’t related to Islam in any way claimed another victim today…Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 22 at 08:59 PM • permalink
- NPR=Left-wing bias? Absolutely, and here’s the proof without even having to listen to it. Go into any used bookstore in the U.S., listen to what they have on the radio, check out the posters and bulletins in the front window, and then give the proprietors the once over. Perfect co-relation between the three variables in 9 out of 10 cases.
Here, the left is astonished when anyone criticises NPR or says it has leftwing bias. They do not think that their position is left of center. They actually think they ARE the center.
Yep. Ever notice how they introduce left-wing and right-wing guests?
“We have with us Jane Whatserface from the National Organization of Oppressed Indigenous Lesbians, and Joe Blow from the conservative Family Values Council of Jesus H. Christ, Savior.”
They label “conservative” and “right-wing”, but they NEVER label “liberal” or “left-wing.” They may use “progressive” sometimes, because it sounds so favorable and hasn’t yet acquired the stench, but it will. And then you’ll never hear them use it.
It’s subtle and insidious. The message they send is, “NOW and Planned Parenthood and the NAACP and every other left-wing group is normal. It’s the right-wingers who are out of the mainstream and must be identified as such.”
- Bruce Lagrasse — But if you look at NPR’s demographic, the workers are the last people listening to it.
Do you think there’s a talk show host on NPR who could tell you what NASCAR stands for?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 22 at 11:17 PM • permalink
- #115: If NPR ever mentioned NASCAR at all, five will get you ten that it was during the most recent presidential election when Jeff Gordon proved to be practically the only major driver who declined to openly endorse George Bush. Check that: they may have mentioned it when NASCAR wussed out by dropping Winston as its sponsor and going with whatever the hell it was (Nextel?).
- Richard
As a NASCAR fanatic I can tell you that few people, including a lot of fans, know exactly what NASCAR stands for (the SPEED Channel did a video interview of fans at random asking them what it stands for, and basically, no one got it right), but the talk show hosts on NPR are way beyond just not knowing that. They probably think that new champ Tony Stewart is Martha’s kid brother.
I’m sure they predictably buy into the “ignorant redneck” theme and hate it just for that reason (where are the women and minorities, etc.), but they probably haven’t the foggiest notion of how big NASCAR is now and how much it has spread beyond its southern good-old-boy roots.
It’s mainstream Americana now. It will be a target of the Left very soon. But they better reckon with the millions of fans who love the sport and everything about it, and who will let them leftwingers know right quick how they feel.
- re #92 and poster Nemesis:
“The Guardian” is the newspaper of the ex-Stalinist Communist Party of Australia rump, which in recent months has been running full-page unedited crap from Kim Jong-il of North Korea. My supposition is that The Guardian is either being directly subsidised by the starving masses of North Korea, or is taking ads from that regime and hence being indirectly subsidised by the starving masses. Would Nemesis please oblige by suggesting why The Guardian is running North Korea propaganda?
- #108 and Peter Beattie was a journalista maybe ABC? W.A. ex prem Burke was a journalist,ex ABC journalist Holland is running a uni journo course for them. and he had a stint as an ALP candidate.Pru Goward is an ex abc political journo(hack).
None of them Liberals.So that makes Bob Carr,Peter Beattie,Clare Martin,Carpenter,not sure about Mike Rann and Maxine McKew was approached by ALP last year but declined.On account of she would not reside in Cabramatta.
- #121, don’t forget Kerry O’Brien was an adviser to the worst PM Australia’s ever had.Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 11 23 at 11:17 PM • permalink
- OT, last night I decided to watch the IF awards during the ad breaks of a show on a commercial network to see how long it took before an award winner launched into a leftie angry tirade.
Within about 15 minutes, some greasy, unkempt loser was whining that bureaucrats and politicians kept making it difficult for him to hoover large amounts of cash out of the pockets of taxpayers.
Thankfully I wasn’t watching for Peter Garrett’s ‘expose’ on the new (old) sedition laws.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 11 23 at 11:25 PM • permalink
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