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Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 08:45 am
The Guardian’s Ian Mayes investigates coverage of the Lebanese Red Cross ambulance story:
I have received a number of emails referring to the zombietime website, one from a reader describing his complaint as “purely personal” concluding, “Before I take this complaint forward to the PCC [the Press Complaints Commission] I would appreciate your comments on the linked website and also whether you intend to retract the story.” On the basis of my inquiries over several days last week I do not intend to suggest that the paper should retract its report.
No surprise there; the Guardian is yet to retract its plastic turkey lie of three years ago. Mayes continues:
Two Australian newspapers, in fact, revisited the story after the country’s foreign minister, Alexander Downer, accused some of the world’s “most prestigious media” of falling for a hoax. One of them, the Australian, carried its rebuttal under the heading: “Downer’s unfounded faith in the internet”, and it accused him of being hoaxed by what it called “a callous blog” (zombietime is a website not a blog). The heading on the Age story speaks for itself: “Ambulance attack evidence stands the test.”
What the zombietime website, which takes issue with both of these Australian rebuttals, does show is a fairly large number of inconsistencies and anomalies in the reporting and pictorial coverage of the event across the media: whether these are larger in number than might normally be expected to occur in reporting from a war zone is a matter for conjecture.
Mayes, reasonably enough, allows for “inconsistencies and anomalies” in reporting from war zones. Perhaps, then, the Guardian’s initial report should have indicated some fog-of-war doubt over the claims made to their correspondent instead of stating as fact: “Israel’s rocket strike on two clearly marked Red Cross ambulances on Sunday night set a deadly new milestone … Two ambulances were entirely destroyed, their roofs pierced by missiles.” Next, Mayes dives for the fake-but-true defence:
A Guardian picture archivist with a special interest in images from areas of conflict, who carried out extensive research for me, concluded that there was cause for doubt about the nature of the munitions involved and the manner of their delivery, but not in the reality of the attack.
Great work, Clouseau.
[Guardian reporter] Suzanne Goldenberg told me: “I remain confident that the story was true.” She points out that she and Sean Smith reported the story first hand and independently and did not rely on what purported to be amateur video footage of the incident.
There isn’t any footage of “the incident”. Only of the alleged aftermath. Read on for more Guardian waffle.
- The reality of the attack was that a few Hezbollah volunteers at the Red Cross outpost in Tyre took to a couple of ambulances from the wreckers with a fire axe and perhaps a few bullets before starting a small fire in the back of one of them. Except the fog of war demands that the fire may have been lit years ago.
- The Grauniad is populated by weasels, but we knew that already.Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 09 11 at 01:22 AM • permalink
- …continued:
…concluded that there was cause for doubt about the nature of the munitions involved and the manner of their delivery, but not in the reality of the attack.
They admit the photos and what they are claimed to represent are probably a fraud, but yet again, “fake, but accurate” raises its ugly, phony head.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 09 11 at 01:26 AM • permalink
- You know, I think it will be several years till a mainstream media outlet, when caught out by blogs making mistakes and errors, will come clean and openly admit that they were wrong.
After a Reuters photographer was caught out photoshopping several images, Reuters initially defended the rationale behind the alterations, then issued a photo kill and sacked the photographer.
Other than this one incident, when Dan Rather was caught out and once again with this Red Cross ambulance saga, not one mainstream media outlet dared to correct themselves. What they did care to do, was launch a savage attack on the credibility of the bloggers.
Who gives a rats ass about the credibility of the bloggers ? Nobody expects them to replace mainstream media, but everyone knows they can be the best and fastest mechanism for fact checking there is.
- “…concluded that there was cause for doubt about the nature of the munitions involved and the manner of their delivery, but not in the reality of the attack.”
Ooooh look everyone its Elvis!!!, Damn you just missed him, There may be cause for some doubt about the nature of the sequins and the manner in which they are being worn,but not in the reality of the Elvis sighting…..
/gruinard off.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 11 at 02:18 AM • permalink
- The fact is that these newspapers are not really engaging in debate here. They are trying to reassure their readership, few of whom will be bothered checking evidence for themselves. They are effectively saying “don’t worry, we’ve checked and it’s all true, move on”. They know they can’t win on the evidence, but they think they don’t need to if the debate is restricted to the blogosphere.
The reason that is was a bigger issue in Australian papers was that a senior politician took up the issue, and the MSM had to reply.
- They think that if they bluster long enough we will just give up and go away. I hope not. At the very least this is flagrant self-deception on behalf of their pets. And quite possibly outright lying. They haven’t tried to check out the stories, just tried to find evidence to support them. Not exactly doing their job.
To convince me that it was a mistaken attack or collateral damage they would have to get credible forensic experts to examine the ambulances and say that they had been attacked recently. I don’t think this is going to happen. And even if they had been attacked they have not produced a scrap of evidence that it was the result of deliberate targeting of ambulances.
As plenty of bloggers have pointed out a hits from rockets or guided missiles would have disassembled the ambulances. Maybe, just maybe it might be small explosive projectiles exploding outside the ambulances. But single hits from automatic weapons on both ambulances? It’s unlikely enough on one.
But the damage and the rust look just like what you would expect on ambulances retrieved from junkyards. For there to have been any attack let alone a war crime you have to devise an implausible scenario. This has included suggesting the use of weapons that as far as we know neither the Israelis or anyone else have. Weapons that don’t make sense like drones with automatic weapons or small guided missiles with inert warheads.
Anything explanation other than a hoax is just too implausible and contrived.
Posted by Lloyd Flack on 2006 09 11 at 02:56 AM • permalink
- Ian Mayes knows he’s preaching to the converted so he doesn’t have to worry. His enquiries consisted of visiting the Guardian “picture archivist” (a pert yoga devotee for whom he has the hots) and ringing a couple of his mates overseas (with whom he talked about football and the Guardian “picture archivist’s” cute yoga butt). If this is an investigation, then I’m afraid Mr Mayes is a sadly deluded sack of shite.
- I have 20 research assistants, that’s way more than the clown that wrote this piece of poop.
All my research assistants are really really expert in … umm…gimme a sec, brb… oh yeah, war pictures too!!
And all my research assistants say that these are ambulances that were made at a super secret facility that specializes in making busted up lookinhg ambulanses and other kinds of vehicles so that war pictures can look more warry.
I cant be wrong, you know. I have research assistants and one of them is named Dave. So you know I’m right.
- Silver lining: Most Guardian readers won’t even have been aware there was any controversy. Now they do, and one or two of the brighter sparks may actually visit zombie’s site and draw their own conclusions.
Progress.
Posted by Thon Brocket on 2006 09 11 at 03:27 AM • permalink
- A Guardian picture archivist with a special interest in images from areas of conflict, who carried out extensive research for me, concluded that there was cause for doubt about the nature of the munitions involved and the manner of their delivery, but not in the reality of the attack.
Translation: The Joooos’ attack must have consisted of viciously beaming away part of the ambulance roof.
- Question:
Goldberg’s report appeared in the Guardian on 25 July, which was also the day Sean Smith apparently saw the ambulances ‘in situ’ according to Mayes report on 11 Sep. Not clear that Goldberg saw anything herself. She wrote in her 25 July report:
Although the air strike marked the first time ambulances have been hit by Israel in this war, for Mr Shaalan and the other Red Cross volunteers it was only a matter of time. After two weeks of strikes designed to choke off possible supply lines to Hizbullah guerrillas, travel to many villages was just too dangerous. Coastal villages even within a few kilometers of Tyre are cut off. In some, corpses remain trapped in the rubble for days.
But nothing is more perilous than travelling by night, and no more so than just before midnight that Sunday when another Red Cross crew set off from Tyre to pick up their injured colleagues.
Nevertheless, Goldberg filed another report which was published on 27 July in The Age, apparently from Tibnin, which was where the civilians/other ambulance allegedly came from. No photos either (but maybe Sean was somewhere else or Goldberg was never there herself, just some unidentified ‘we’)
Still, those dangerous roads. Not on a guided tour by the Hez by any chance?
- There seem to be two rules to follow when reporting from war zones:
Rule 1. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Rule 2. If in doubt see rule number 1.
Posted by surfmaster on 2006 09 11 at 03:56 AM • permalink
- 1. Suzanne Goldenberg remains “confident that the story was true.” In that case, she must be “confident” that, as she reported, “two ambulances were entirely destroyed, their roofs pierced by missiles.” Such confidence is literally incredible. Images of the allegedly hit ambulances long ago scotched the “entirely destroyed” idea, and anyone with eyes can see that no “missiles” were involved. So… which part of the story is Ms G confident was true? Or is WAS the operative word here?
2. “but not in the reality of the attack…” So the Guardian is no longer sure which munitions were used and how they were delivered, but still positive there was a real attack and that the Israelis dunnit. Maybe it could remind us what evidence it has for those last two beliefs… Though I have a feeling Nic #2 and Saint #7 have already summed up the case for the “real attack.”
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 09 11 at 04:41 AM • permalink
- Putrid story just aired on ACA, gist of which is – Elderly lady, wife of ex AIF WW2 soldier and without any children, befriended by muslim taxi driver who ferried her around on occassion. As she lay dying, hospital staff had to assign a nurse to her when the taxi driver and members of his family visited her (which was often) because they were putting so much pressure on her to change her will that on one occassionh they were ejected and she had to be put on oxygen. Nevertheless it looks like she altered the will in his favour just before she died and signed a prepared statement converting to islam on the day she died, requesting an islamic funeral and burial. She had been a Catholic all her life.
Video of burial showed a not particularly interested looking mufti sheikh tageddine el-hillaly conducting the “ceremony”. It took all of three minutes. Her will leaves $10K to her brother and the rest ($400K plus) to the taxi driver. He couldn’t even tell the reporter her maiden name.
The family are going to take it to court. I hope they have enough money to do so. If ever I felt like donating a bit of my limited dosh to a good cause, then this would be it. Meanwhile, the little space in the wall that was purchased over 30 years ago, next to her soldier husband’s ashes, remains empty.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 09 11 at 05:01 AM • permalink
- If there is a way of scamming money from honest people, be it through insurance fraud or compo claims they have it down to a fine art.
The lawyers are almost a good at it too.
Posted by surfmaster on 2006 09 11 at 05:55 AM • permalink
- And speaking of the Guardian – something to take a load off your conciences
- #31 – Don’t you mean Best Wishes and Allah bless? I presume you’re a Muslim. Either that or a cretin. Or both.Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 09 11 at 08:46 AM • permalink
- OT
Lady Margaret Thatcher present, in the U.S. at 9/11 moment of silence. Bless you Maggie.
Two Quotes from the past of The Lady Margaret Thatcher.
Europe was created by history. America was created by philosophy.
I seem to smell the stench of appeasement in the air.
Again, Bless you “Iron Lady”, Lady Margaret Thatcher.
- Don’t follow the link in #31, it’s a trojan. Dickhead.Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 09 11 at 09:11 AM • permalink
- Hitchins has just trounced, absolutely trounced, Tony Jones on Lateline re 9/11. See it, read it if you can.
#38 Art, maybe it should be viewed, if only to remind us of the intellect and moral calibre of the opposition.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 09 11 at 09:19 AM • permalink
- I just received a reply to an email I sent to the ABC on Tony Eastley’s suggestion to Alexander Downer that the ambulance was hit by an unexploded missile or munition. This is what took the ABC nearly 2 weeks to come up with:
Thank you for your email of 30 August 2006.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) stands by its claims that two clearly marked ambulances belonging to the Lebanese Red Cross, in the process of transporting injured patients, were struck by munitions.
As far as the ABC is aware, the source of the allegations that the ambulance incident was a “hoax” is a website known as zombietime.com.
The ABC believes the International Red Cross to be a more credible and accurate source of information. In the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, the ABC accepts the ICRC version of events and stands by its reports on the matter.
AM presenter Tony Eastley did not “come up with this story of unexploded missiles” as you suggest. The ABC believes his suggestion that this may have occurred, as with numerous other munitions that remain unexploded in Lebanon, was reasonable within the context of his discussion with Mr Downer.
Yours sincerely
Kieran Doyle
Senior Liaison Officer
Audience and Consumer Affairs
- #40, my antivirus software said it was a trojan and closed the window rather quickly so I didn’t get to see it thankfully. I’d scan your computer if I were you.Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 09 11 at 09:24 AM • permalink
- Story tellers covering their arses at the Grauniad, denying reality as usual.Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 09 11 at 09:25 AM • permalink
- I’ll have to see where I can get dead-tree editions of The Guardian. Our pet lizard – a bearded dragon named “Junior” – is very particular about the quality of the newspaper at the bottom of his terrarium. Not the content, mind you, but the physical quality of the paper itself. I’ve been informed that The Guardian is particularly soft and absorbent, and frankly nothing would give me greater amusement than to see Junior, after a healthy breakfast of worms and zucchini, drop a little military mustache on George Galloway’s upper lip (I assume his photo appears in this newspaper fairly frequently?).
- #44 paco,
You have excellent taste in reptiles.Posted by Daniel San on 2006 09 11 at 10:27 AM • permalink
- “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” Abraham Lincoln
#17. It’s perhaps Lincoln’s most quoted line, but he never said it. It first appeared in a 1904 book entitled, “Abe” Lincoln’s Yarns and Stories.
Likewise, PT Barnum never said “There’s a sucker born every minute.” That was said by David Hannum, a Barnum competitor.
And there’s a whole cottage industry making up bogus (or misattributing) quotes from the American Founding Fathers. For example, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” wasn’t said by Thomas Jefferson. It was said by Howard Zinn, a Marxist historian.
Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2006 09 11 at 11:27 AM • permalink
- Don’t you mean Steve Irwin? Steve Wilson is the lead guitar for Porcupine Tree.Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2006 09 11 at 12:11 PM • permalink
- Slightly O/T, but very relevant given the general theme of the GWOT and the five-year anniversary of the Sept. 11th attacks, I found this article interesting. I didn’t know that the Knights of Malta defeated the Ottoman Turks on Sept. 11th. Seems like history is always offering lessons, if only we’ll pay attention.
- #52., Paco, another fact of interest: Tisha b’Av—the 9th day 0f the 11th month—is known as the “saddest day in the Jewish Calendar”.
It is a fast day which commemorates two of the saddest events in Jewish history—the destruction of the First Temple (originially built by King Solomon), and the destruction of the Second Temple. Those two events occurred about 656 years apart, but both in the same month, Av, and, as tradition has it, both on the ninth day.
So about 2500 years later we are asking ourselves “Has it been five years since that fateful day?”
Not for everyone. It’s been 4 1/2 years for Jason Zucker, born a few months after his dad, Andrew, disappeared in the South Tower’s inferno. He knows his dad was a hero; seven survivors of the World Trade Center came forward to say the young lawyer (take note chrisgo, a lawyer) saved their lives at the expense of his own. But stories are one thing and having no father to kiss is another. Now the boy will have a Torah to kiss, a new Torah with his father’s name inscribed on the velvet.
The Riverdale Jewish Center in The Bronx finished the writing of a new Torah scroll in honor of Zucker, the local hero. It will be read for the first time today, on Sept. 11, and will be read for the first time on a Sabbath later this week on the actual yahrzeit, Elul 23.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 09 11 at 03:45 PM • permalink
- #52.
Paco, that’s odd. On September 11th, 1683, the siege of Vienna was lifted and the Turks roundly defeated. There’s a good report on the “Gates of Vienna” blog.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 09 11 at 03:51 PM • permalink
- #54: So about 2500 years later we are asking ourselves “Has it been five years since that fateful day?” .
Excellent perspective. And the Torah scroll; what a fitting tribute to Andrew Zucker. God rest his soul – God rest all of their souls.
#55: The date seems destined for fateful encounters with Islam. Here’s the link.
- Suzanne Goldenberg told me: “I remain confident that the story was true.”
Is she pointing to the Jenin “massacre” or the Al Durah slaying?
This woman even more of a partisan than Orla Geurin for G’d sake.
The red Cross has a long history og lying thourgh its teeth starting in its glowing reoports of German Concentrations camps during the WW2, whose name i have forgotten.
Can someone help me out here?
- Forget the Siege of Vienna, on Sept. 11, 1814, the U.S. Navy defeated a much larger British fleet in the Battle of Lake Champlain in what Winston Churchill called the “decisive battle of the war.” This, with the British defeat a few days later at the Battle of Baltimore, denied the British any territorial advantage in negotiating the Treaty of Ghent which ended the War of 1812. (The subsequent Battle of New Orleans took place on January 8, 1815, two weeks after the treaty had been signed.)Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2006 09 11 at 05:16 PM • permalink
- #61:
9/11/1609: Henry Hudson discovers Manhattan island
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 09 11 at 05:39 PM • permalink
- Three Gems from the Hitchens/Jones interview.
Rochard Clarke is Tony Jones “Blue security Blanket”.
Gene Wilder would have been jealous.
The only American able to infiltrate Al qaeda was John Walker Lynde, a rank amateur from marlin County- wthout the trillion dollar bydget of the CIA.
George Tenet’s
“Gee, I hope it’s nothing to do with those guys in the flight schools in the mid-west,” who the CIA knew about that and did nothing about.
- Yep, some really, really bad things have happened on September 11.
- Da Bolta links to the blog of an Oz army officer in Iraq.
And quotes from it:
It is fine to disagree with the motives for going to war in Iraq. It is not fine to let that become an anti-American bias that demands a cessation to Operations within Iraq not for the benefit of Iraq, but to prove that Bush has failed. Support your Australian soldiers and their deployment to Iraq – don’t buy the populist crap Beazley spews into the media. We are doing an honourable thing here, and the job is not yet complete.Sometimes war is inevitable in this imperfect world – peace bought by tolerance of gross injustice and tyranny is something we as a nation should never tolerate.
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 09 11 at 07:14 PM • permalink
- Guys—I didn’t remove the troll posts, Tim did. I can’t do any checking of the blogs from my day job anymore, which is why when things happen they often don’t get fixed for hours. (Also, the last vestiges of my weak humanity force me to have to sleep occasionally. Well, the last “treatment” as well as the new implants I am getting should take care of that little problem. Also I’ll be able to finally drill holes in concrete with my eyes. Yay! And they say Christmas only comes once a year.)Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 11 at 08:21 PM • permalink
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” Abraham Lincoln
Saltydog—Sorry, I won’t believe it until John Kerry attributes it to Thomas Jefferson.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 09 11 at 08:23 PM • permalink
- As usual for these defences, the Guardian provides little or no extra evidence about the incident, just the reassurance that their field staff really do believe it.
Guardian Sean Smith – War in Lebanon photo 22 (double click the 22)is the only Sean Smith photo of the “entirely destroyed” ambulances I can find. Has anyone seen any others ?
I notice that 777 still has a red cross in the object centred above the front windscreen whereas Dahr Jamail’shas had that wrecked … that’s evidence of post-incident enhancement of the ‘evidence’, not directly relevant to whether it happened or not, but it may help to date photo sets – ones with the red cross mounted there are earlier than ones with the mount damaged.
- A PRACTICAL OBJECTION TO RETRACTING LIES
“No surprise there; the Guardian is yet to retract its plastic turkey lie…”
If the people who run The Guardian withdrew every lie they’ve told, they wouldn’t have any time to concoct new lies.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 09 11 at 09:30 PM • permalink
- 59 Davo, probably because of the subject matter. I watched the first part but only saw half of last night’s.
I had to go to bed I was so angry!
5 years on, and sfa’s been done, it seems. All the kowtowing in the world to minorities wearing VictimHats will not fix the problem.
The problem is that within the heart of islam there is a clarion call to arms to kill infidels and make islam the order of the day.
That’s it.
To reform islam means you have to cut out the guts of it, and that’s not going to happen.
Of course Aunty won’t show something that makes islam look bad.
Channel 7, however….
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 09 12 at 01:11 AM • permalink
- Suzanne Goldenberg told me: “I remain confident that the story was true.”
Why, darl, give me just one GOOD reason!?
That stonewalling, anti-investigating ‘trust my sources’ garbage is now typical of the best-known papers in the world, even when reporting war
-so we are ALL in trouble anyway, forget about the terrorists.
- #52 paco – absolutely inspiring.Posted by surfmaster on 2006 09 12 at 04:18 AM • permalink
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