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Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 01:27 pm
Jules Crittenden reviews the tragic and deadly record of the UN’s peacekeeping missions. They ought to hire some kind and helpful Beirut taxi drivers to run those deals.
- An Australian-Israeli is among the 9 fallen in today’s fighting. Assaf Namer had one month left to serve. He came to Israel specifically to join the IDF.
What a price to pay. Why not bomb the place to smithereens before sending in ground troops??Posted by MamaWombat on 2006 07 27 at 12:43 AM • permalink
Excellent article. I couldn’t help but think that Mr. Crittenden needed more space. But then, recording the UN’s mistakes, atrocities, corruption, and sheer incompetence requires a massive tome.
I just erased an enormous rant (pause for applause) about the taxi drivers. I realized that it was a waste of three paragraphs to say, “So what?”
I’m sick of hearing about the poor people of the world who are under fire. It isn’t that I have no more compassion, but that I have had my fill of innocents being unjustly used against us as pawns in a cynical propaganda war. If the cost is too high, perhaps people ought to rethink their assumptions. Saying that you are surprised because you didn’t intend for the insulted party to fight back won’t save anybody.
I know. It’s still too long. B^/
Why not bomb the place to smithereens before sending in ground troops??
They may well have done so, but Hezballah (under the oh-so-vigilant eye of UNIFIL) has spent the past six years digging and reinforcing very deep tunnel/bunker complexes. Israel didn’t have anything strong enough to reach them. I gather we have some bunker-busters en route that are (will gladly defer to the greater wisdom of the blow-things-up mavens here on that), but they haven’t arrived yet. Last I heard they were transiting through Scotland.
Even bunker busters aren’t the ultimate solution. Air power, armor, and artillery are essential in modern combat, but if you want to secure your objective, there is no substitute for the common infantry soldier with a rifle.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 27 at 01:17 AM • permalink
I wonder if the bunker busters will be used. Israel is already talking about giving up more land to insure a cease-fire. I don’t understand how they could even hint at such a thing.
What the hell is it going to take? Any country that won’t fight for their existence, doesn’t deserve to exist – and won’t for long. Anyone who thinks we can’t lose this war hasn’t read their history.
#1 You are an incompetent bastard Annan.
I second the motion.
#4, That doesnt sound like a rush job to me; I know there are two wars the Yanks are fighting, but surely a single C-5 or C-17 was available for a direct flight to Israel. Or is there something I dont know about transporting bombs by air? Maybe Jeffs or Texas Bob could fill that one in.
#5 Right as you may be, Israels military objectives could be met with a barrage of small nuclear weapons. No scumbollah, no bunkers, no launchers. Maybe even salt the bombs to make sure they dont come back…
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 01:41 AM • permalink
#4, #5, #6, If the bunker busters are still on the way, what the hell blew up the 5/10 story building in Tyre? (# of floors depends on the news channel, 7 according to Israeli News)
Mayhaps the Israeli’s hit a nice big pile of rockets…
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 01:56 AM • permalink
WOZ, I can’t say about the release of suitable aircraft, but I do know that this is a RE-supply run. Israel had a number of US made bunker busters before this round of shooting started.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 27 at 02:30 AM • permalink
And under the vigilant eye of Lebanon as well. While we are naming bloody shovels how about the yarn that Israel is threatening a new government presiding over a fragile democracy.
All that is new is that Syria has been booted, well almost, Annan also conceded in his report that they could well still be in the Deir al-Ashayr area and that the Syrian intelligence might still be there.
They had an election, which to start with was hardly one vote one value. The same good ‘ol boys are in the government parcelling out the euros and dollars, well except for Hariri. While heroes have flaws Hariri had a lot. He was probably killed by his criminal peers in Syria as much for his squabbling over who should get the goodies as because he had suddenly seen the light and become an honest honourable democrat.
Berri is Hizbollah
Lahoud is Hizbollah’s boy, they refuse to have him replaced.
Then Fouad Siniora, on his election as PM
Hizbollah’s role, he said: “The government considers the resistance a natural and honest expression of the Lebanese people’s national rights to liberate their land and defend their honour against Israeli aggression and threats”.
Siniora reiterates Hizbollah’s demands re the Cheba Farms for a ceasefire however often the UN says they are not yours.Annan in his April 2006 report states that the Lebanese Army could move into the Hizbollah area, but it seems the government don’t want them to. He also reports the Lebanese Army stopping convoy of trucks from Syria carrying weapons to Hizbollah and obeying government instructions to allow them to pass.
This is the new fledgling democracy.
Then there is Nasrallah claiming that he informed the Lebanese government that he was going to kidnap Israelis soldiers.
Even Daily Kos says of this.
“but doesn’t it still make the Lebanese government an accomplice?”Daily Kos names Lebanese government
The world isn’t worried about a fledgling democracy being unseated, the problem is that Israel is knocking off the scab and exposing the corruption, of all.
- Goodness me.
There were 12 Australians in the UN contingent on the Israel/ Lebanese border.
No doubt sheltering Hezboolah and providing shelter for terrorists to act.
12 Australians with guts and courage to enlist in the Army and serve in a dangerous overseas posting, while limp brained silly little pooftas with a computer make all sorts of wild accusations that their feeble minds can dream of.
#11, Glad to see you found that mirror Marsh…
#9, I was unaware they already had some busters on hand.
In regards to the method of transport, I was really enquiring if the USAF had some rule about flying a cargo plane full of bombs into a war zone, i.e. it had to be shipped by sea.
While we’re here pickin your military mind, is a bunker buster likely to drop a 7 storey building like that (straight down, buildings on both sides barely touched)? Or was it the munitions store in the basement…
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 03:59 AM • permalink
MarshallD, I see that you are unable to apply a principle beyond its concrete example. You obviously understand the concept of self-defense, but are unable to get beyond the most basic level of the right of the individual to protect his person, to the abstraction that extends that right to a society of individuals.
- WOZ:
Any of the current or expert folk speak up then scratch all I say here. I was just a simple grunt and that was many moons ago too but here’s my understanding of “bunker buster” munitions.Some of them were actually designed around taking old “shot out” large bore artillery cannon barrels and stuffing them with explosives, applying fins to stabilize and a hardened cone on the nose. These things were/are HEAVY with a capitol massive. The design is to allow deep penetration through multiple levels of reinforced concrete and earth “armor” protecting a bunker prior to detonating.Then there’s the . My impression of that was… they did all that fancy pants math stuff to find out exactly how big and heavy of a single item could be lifted in the cargo hold of our C130 transport craft and then built exactly that.. as a bomb.MOAB
So anyway, what I think I was getting at is that… these things are very very heavy and also generally in rather short supply so gathering them up from the store rooms and getting them shipped might take some special maneuvering.
But anyway, just guessing so go with what the other folk say if they say anything.
Then there’s the . My impression of that was… they did all that fancy pants math stuff to find out exactly how big and heavy of a single item could be lifted in the cargo hold of our C130 transport craft and then built exactly that.. as a bomb.MOAB
The MOAB link and name was supposed to go prior to the first period. Should read
Then there’s the MOAB. (with MOAB being the link) Sorry. One of the occasional things that might pop up when translating from grimmir into grammar.
#15. Phillip :- Not sure whether the IDF received the GBU-28 in that shipment last year but these are the ones that are supposedly on their way as part of another order. They are the ones Grimmy refers to when he mentions used gun barrels.
They measure approx. 6 metres long and weigh in about 2000 kg (close to 2 tons ?) so a C5 Galaxy could probably carry about 60 or maybe less. They can penetrate about 30 meters of earth and around 6 meters of RC so you would have to dig real deep to escape being buried alive or dead. You can check it out on http://www.howstuffworks.com.
Reminds me of the Grand Slam earthquake bomb invented by Barnes Wallis during WW2 although it was much larger than the GBU-28. The following web site has a very chilling story of a Grand Slam that was never emptied of Torpex and sat near the main gate of RAF Scampton for a number of years before it was discovered to be “live’
- FAE
can be real useful too in both kinds of “bunker”
In the top of the ground bunkers it flash fries in a nicely messy way.
In the shallower under the ground bunkers it creates an “over pressure” that first crushes those within and then as the blast wave moves out it creates a vacuum that can actually draw human bodies up through the vent pipes from inside the bunkers.
Kofi Annan knew all along his UN peacekeepers would be in harm’s way. Cynic that I am, I believe he and his partners in crime deliberately left them there in hopes that the Israelis would hit some of them. Thus the opportunity to raise a public outcry at the brutal Israelis. There are no adequate words to describe what I feel about Kofi Annan and the UN at this moment.
#15 I am familiar with the Mother Of All Bombs. In fact I linked from here to the wiki page for it last week. But my understanding was that it had minimal ground penetration (apart from the bang). Where as a true ‘buster will be designed for deep penetration before detonation. MOAB is certainly not shaped for ground penetration, as its not circular in cross section.
Im really after anecdotal evidence the Israeli’s got a weapons stockpile… But hey, I can wait for CNN or FOX to work it out.
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:49 AM • permalink
Dont forget that FAE’s leave behind a rather large mushroom shaped cloud. Tends to get the bad guys a bit concerned….
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:50 AM • permalink
- Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 12:31 PM • permalink
I’m still digging around for the link on the depth of the bunkers, but here’s the article I vaguely recalled about the bunker-busters passing through Scotland. They’re the GBU-28s spag_oz mentioned in #18. While we have long supplied Israel with weapons, including bombs, I don’t know if we’ve given them this particular type before.
July 15 – Jerusalem Post reports bunker-busters being used against Hezballah leadership. The type of bunker-buster is not named.
Pajamas Media seems to be down at the moment, so I can’t find the link there on the depth of the Hezballah bunkers. The number that keeps turning up on Google is 7 meters, but it’s in the exact same sentence practically every time, so it looks like everyone’s quoting from a single source. Presuming it’s correct, anybody know if Israel had anything in their arsenal effective against that?
Canadian Soldier Says UN Position Used As Cover By Hezbollah:
MacKenzie, who happened to know the deceased personally, said in one such correspondence the soldier “described the fact that he was taking within…three meters of his position ‘for tactical necessity – not being targeted.’”
The general explained that is veiled military speech “telling us [that] Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them.”
He said using UN personnel as human shields is “a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN,” knowing they will suffer no direct consequences for the violation.
And also, perhaps, by duplicitous Secretaries General who have axes to grind.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 07 27 at 03:54 PM • permalink
Every so often I get to wonder whether closet lefties sneak onto this site, like some suicide bomber of a muslim
The only reason I bother is that someone in some rag said that this was a site for right wing dirt bags.
If I am wrong would someone plese tell me where the true right wing dirt bag site is.
You know, Marshall, you’re sounding more and more like a leftist troll who’s decided to have a bit of “fun” with the slavering bloodthirsty sexist rightwingers. Or else you’re a lefty academic who is feeling the strain of keeping his own bigotry and sexism under wraps in his public milieu and who mistakenly thinks he has found a site of “kindred souls” who will rejoice in drooling over underage Asian girls and whatever else it is you are always on about. Either way, your welcome here is wearing thin.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 27 at 11:25 PM • permalink
#27, That depends if its 7 metres of dirt, or 7 metres of steel reinforced concrete.
I think I read somewhere the gbu-28 was good for 6 metres of concrete, assuming a fairly high altitude release.
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:52 PM • permalink
No, you found it Marshall. Right wing dirt bag and proud. Watch and learn. Thanks to all for entertaining and informative input on this subject. Particularly the bodies through airvents part.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 07 27 at 11:53 PM • permalink
I must admit that MarshallD’s posts were rubbing me the wrong way pretty much right from the start. Maybe it was the constant angry ranting about something-or-other…it reminds me more of the tone on sundry lefty blogs than the wit we usually get here.
I don’t think Marshall’s a lefty though, just a really unpleasant crank, perhaps of the paleo-con variety.
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Annan was fully informed about Hizbollah using UN posts to provide cover for their operations and did nothing,
Letter dated 18 April 2006 from the Secretary-General
addressed to the President of the Security Council
“Under such circumstances, Hizbollah has maintained and reinforced a visible presence in the area, with permanent observation posts, temporary checkpoints and patrols; some of its positions are in close proximity to United Nations positions. This presence stands in contradiction to the provisions of the Taif Agreement as well as to Security Council resolutions 425 (1978), 426 (1978) and 1559 (2004). “
Then there is this
Another death for UN
“After the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, and the subsequent bombing campaign began against Lebanon, CTV.ca received an email from Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, a Canadian Forces soldier serving with the UN in South Lebanon…
On July 26, the federal government said Hess-von Kruedener was missing and presumed dead…
“What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.
I thank you for the opportunity to provide you with some information from the front lines here in south Lebanon.
Maj Hess-von Kruedener”
And Captain’s Quarters reports this
“Meanwhile, Gen. MacKenzie gave a radio interview which gave a little more clarity to the situation on the ground near UNIFIL (via It Shines For All and a number of CQ readers):
“…the tragic loss of a soldier yesterday who I happen to know and I think probably is from my Regiment. We’ve received e-mails from him a few days ago and he described the fact that he was taking within – in one case—three meters of his position “for tactical necessity – not being targeted”. Now that’s veiled speech in the military and what he was telling us was Hizbullah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were (sic) targeting them and that’s a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it.”
Retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie interviewed on CBC Toronto radio 26 July 2006”
You are an incompetent bastard Annan.