The content on this webpage contains paid/affiliate links. When you click on any of our affiliate link, we/I may get a small compensation at no cost to you. See our affiliate disclosure for more info -----------------------
Last updated on July 23rd, 2017 at 01:29 pm
Hitchens on Cindy Sheehan and Maureen Dowd:
Here is an unambivalent statement: “The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute.”
And, now, here’s another:
“Am I emotional? Yes, my first-born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a [Project for the New American Century] neo-con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush, who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11. We were told that we were attacked on 9/11 because the terrorists hate our freedoms and democracy … not for the real reason, because the Arab Muslims who attacked us hate our Middle-Eastern foreign policy.”
The second statement comes from Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year. It was sent to the editors of ABC’s Nightline on March 15. The first statement comes from Maureen Dowd’s Aug. 10 New York Times column, in which she argues that Sheehan’s moral authority is absolute.
I am at a complete loss to see how these two positions can be made compatible. Sheehan has obviously taken a short course in the Michael Moore school of Iraq analysis and has not succeeded in making it one atom more persuasive. I dare say that her “moral authority” to do this is indeed absolute, if we agree for a moment on the weird idea that moral authority is required to adopt overtly political positions—but then so is my “moral” right to say that she is spouting sinister piffle. Suppose I had lost a child in this war. Would any of my critics say that this gave me any extra authority? I certainly would not ask or expect them to do so. Why, then, should anyone grant them such a privilege?
Sensible people don’t. Also from Hitchens:
Why have several large American cities not already announced that they are going to become sister cities with Baghdad and help raise money and awareness to aid Dr. Tamimi? When I put this question to a number of serious anti-war friends, their answer was to the effect that it’s the job of the administration to allocate the money, so that there’s little room or need for civic action. I find this difficult to credit: For day after day last month I could not escape the news of the gigantic “Live 8” enterprise, which urged governments to do more along existing lines by way of debt relief and aid for Africa. Isn’t there a single drop of solidarity and compassion left over for the people of Iraq, after three decades of tyranny, war, and sanctions and now an assault from the vilest movement on the face of the planet? Unless someone gives me a persuasive reason to think otherwise, my provisional conclusion is that the human rights and charitable “communities” have taken a pass on Iraq for political reasons that are not very creditable. And so we watch with detached curiosity, from dry land, to see whether the Iraqis will sink or swim. For shame.
Good call.
UPDATE. James Lileks:
Even money says Sheehan will be sitting in the Michael Moore seat next to Jimmy Carter at the ‘08 Democratic convention.
And here is that Michael Moore seat.
That’s right. The job of a REAL soldier is to kill and die whether their leadership is competent or not.
The job of REAL parents is to accept this in silence, especially when the leader and his cronies are turning a good profit for themselves.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 09:20 AM • permalink
Bryan, how do you know parents accept this in silence?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 09:31 AM • permalink
You hit it right on the head, Jaffa.
I mean, you must have been hit right on the head.
From what in Hitchens’ piece, or the first two responses here, do you derive the material for your sarcastic restatements?
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 09:34 AM • permalink
WOO HOO!!! I should have googled better the first time around. My bad. I opened the search a bit wider, and guess what…..
Folks, Bryla is back.
From The Crusade’s progress , an article by Margo Kingston on 17 September 2002:
Bryan Law in Cairns, Queensland
Disclosure. In January this year, following emotional recovery from the destruction in Afghanistan, and the moral desolation in Australia, a small group of people got together in Cairns to form what we call the world’s first non-urgent nonviolent peace group. We call ourselves Peace by Peace. I’m still naive and optimistic enough to believe the world can be made a more peaceful place. I am not now, nor ever have been a member of a political party.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 09:37 AM • permalink
Oops, hit the SUBMIT button too fast….
The e-mail of “The Real Jaffa” is bryan@cairnspeacebypeace.org ; as you note, Bryan helped found that group.
I’d say “Welcome back”, Bryla, but it’s clear that you still retain your moonbat ways. Although you do have a new e-mail address.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 09:41 AM • permalink
I love the research capacity of people on this blog. It’s only the motivation I distrust.
I love even more the confused and befuddled way you can’t quite remeber what it was we invaded Iraq for and murdered all those people.
My sympathies lie with the dead and wounded, included the dead and maimed U.S. soldiers.
I’m glad to see the U.S. will retreat soon.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 09:45 AM • permalink
As I said, you retain your moonbat ways, Bryla. Althought the “We hates Western civilization, yes, my Precious, we does!” flavor is a lot stronger.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 09:50 AM • permalink
I love western civilisation, and love democracy. IMHO the criminal invasion and occupation of Iraq represents the primitive savagery civilisation tries to tame.
Most Americans I’ve met have been good people. I wish them well in trying to reassert democratic values in their own country, and behaving peacefully towards others.
You can do it.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 09:54 AM • permalink
Bryan, do you think a U.S. retreat would decrease the numbers of dead and wounded? In either the near or far term?
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 09:56 AM • permalink
Hitchens moral authority to comment on Iraq has been compromised because he was suckered on the scale of the threat and because he, and his comrades in armchairs like me, failed to think clearly what nation buildind a state like Iraq would entail. Also, he has made quite a career for himself as an Iraq contrarian.
Mrs Sheehan was against the war from the start and has now lost her first born son. She has nothing to prove sinc her position was validated and she has lost the thing she loves most. That is moral authority.
But Hitchens is right to crticise Leftwingers for partisanship and selective compassion. What ever the scale of political iniquity of the Bush admin it is clear that Iraqis need help.
I suggest Tim B. starts a Professor Quiggin style blogathon for victims of Iraq’s many wars. I will stump up $20 to that cause.
Joe Geoghegan, not any more Joe. What could have kept the lid on all this misery was if the inspections and disarmament process was completed.
Now it doesn’t matter. The U.S. will retreat in Iraq because the lies have been exposed, the dead soldiers keep coming home, and the nation’s leadership is clueless.
The figure I heard quoted last night on the dread LNL is 61% of Americans think the Iraq policy is wrong. The U.S. is getting out, whether you like it or not.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 10:00 AM • permalink
Most Americans I’ve met have been good people. I wish them well in trying to reassert democratic values in their own country, and behaving peacefully towards others.
We do that every time we have an election, Bryla, local, state, or Federal. That’s when I exercise my franchise, and vote. So I know I can do it. I do so regularly.
Whatever you might read in your surfing the INTERNET, America remains a democracy.
If you are polite, don’t over do the preaching, and actually listen, maybe Andrea won’t banish you to The Realm Of Those That Were Banished By Andrea™.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 10:03 AM • permalink
Jack, you might try reading what Hitchens said:
“…if we agree for a moment on the weird idea that moral authority is required to adopt overtly political positions…“
If you disagree with that, say so. But in disallowing his “moral authority”, you merely tell people that you didn’t read what Hitchens said. Which makes your comments suspect up front. Even to someone who hasn’t read your stuff in the past.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/18 at 10:08 AM • permalink
Bryan, I found the survey results you cited:
“The survey by Newsweek magazine indicated only 34 per cent of Americans approved of the way Bush was handling the situation in Iraq while 61 per cent expressed their disapproval.”
Your take is that 61% think “the Iraq policy is wrong,” and therefore the U.S. is getting out.
What it actually says is that 61% disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation. Surely that includes a huge range of opinions, including those who say we should increase our presence there.
Point 2: I asked if you thought a retreat would decrease the casualty rate, and you said “not any more.” So why on earth, if you have such sympathy for the bereaved and wounded, would you be glad to see a retreat?
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 10:18 AM • permalink
Joe, point taken on the 61%. It’s still not a good look.
On point 2, a continuing U.S. presence removes the potential for resolution, and creates the possibility of serious mayhem. My understanding is that the Shia majority in Iraq will win most of the goodies from independent government, and will enjoy close relations with Iran.
What will happen as the nuclear issues with Iraq play out? Will the Shia militias begin to attack US troops? Will a bad situation get worse?
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 10:25 AM • permalink
I think a fund-raiser for Iraq might be a hard sell while we’re paying $60 for oil. The perception may be that they’re swimming in money and don’t need a parcel of prancing hippies fronting their cause.
Of course, there’s lots of resources in Africa too, but since we keep them on the teat they’ll never bother to exploit them.
Posted by spongeworthy on 08/18 at 10:51 AM • permalink
Bryan, what sort of “resolution” do you foresee following a complete, near-future U.S. withdrawal? If a Shia-dominated, democratic government effected with a continuing U.S. presence would precipitate “serious mayhem,” how would you characterize the likely results of a sudden withdrawal? Because for me, the phrase “orgy of butchery” comes to mind.
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 10:57 AM • permalink
Joe, “orgy of butchery” is a great phrase, but doesn’t it describe what’s going on now?
What’s your scenario for ending it.
Do you believe that any political settlement achieved under occupation will last post-occupation?
How many lives are you prepared to sacrifice?
In the immediate future, I see an extended Shia bloc seriously suppressing the Sunni and Kurdish peoples. I see a two heavily armed states (Iraq & Iran) maintaining their political independence. No better and no worse than the status quo ante.
It’s not pretty, but then we threw away the best chance we had, and I guess we’re gonna have to live with the consequences.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 11:09 AM • permalink
I’m sorry Bryan, I wasn’t clear. I wanted to use a strong phrase because I believe a near-term U.S. evacuation would result in a civil war whose violence would dwarf the current tally of casualties. Yes, a carbomb in a market or the slaughter of a wedding party is an “orgy of butchery.” It’s a question of degree.
What makes you think the Shia majority is waiting for the word “go” to start suppressing the other two major ethnic sectors?
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 12:14 PM • permalink
Jaffa, a friend of mine supported OIF even before her son, who was serving in Iraq, was killed at a suicide bombing at a checkpoint. She still supports it, and President Bush, and respects and honors her son’s sacrifice every day. She doesn’t go pimping her son’s death out like Cindy Sheehan does.
Her moral authority is absolute.
It’s not pretty, but then we threw away the best chance we had, and I guess we’re gonna have to live with the consequences.
Jaffa – what “chance” did we throw away? What dire “consequences” do we face as a result?
I recall a fellow who said the same sort of stuff 68 years ago to Hitler. It seemed like a good idea at the time to retreat in the face of evil then – and we saw what happened. Why is it a good idea now?
dc, Jaffa (Bryan) said the following, in comment 13, above:
“What could have kept the lid on all this misery was if the inspections and disarmament process was completed.”
I think that’s the “best chance” he’s referring to.
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 08/18 at 01:15 PM • permalink
All of which makes the following more ironic. The Sudetenland is Gaza is Iraq – just give them what they want, and they’ll go away…
From the the link I referenced:
International tension increased when Adolf Hitler began demanding that the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia should be under the control of the German government. In an attempt to to solve the crisis, the heads of the governments of Germany, Britain, France and Italy met in Munich in September, 1938.
On 29th September, 1938, Adolf Hitler, Neville Chamberlain, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement which transferred to Germany the Sudetenland, a fortified frontier region that contained a large German-speaking population. When Eduard Benes, Czechoslovakia’s head of state, who had not been invited to Munich, protested at this decision, Chamberlain told him that Britain would be unwilling to go to war over the issue of the Sudetenland.
The Munich Agreement was popular with most people in Britain because it appeared to have prevented a war with Germany. However, some politicians, including Winston Churchill and Anthony Eden, attacked the agreement. These critics pointed out that no only had the British government behaved dishonorably, but it had lost the support of Czech Army, one of the best in Europe.
But they didn’t go away, did they? And the last best chance for “peace in our time” was an illusion from the get-go.
Le sigh…
Joe, “orgy of butchery” is a great phrase, but doesn’t it describe what’s going on now?
No, it doesn’t. It describes pretty well what was going on before we got there. And it describes pretty well what’s going on in Sudan, of which I hear zero from your ilk (although that won’t prevent you in future from holding it up as an example of American indifference, a la Rwanda, I’m sure).
As to “IMHO the criminal invasion and occupation of Iraq represents the primitive savagery civilisation tries to tame” – oh, please. As you cast your compassionate gaze across the globe, we’re the worst you can come up with? A “criminal”, “savage” occupation that has given Iraq more schools, clean water, and electricity than they had before? Where the worst abuses amounted to criminal naked pig-piles and savage genital-pointing-at?
I really hope you’re under 25, because if you’re a full-blown adult this degree of stupidity, ignorance, and lack of perspective would be criminal.
She “was against the war from the start” because people die in war, fare enough her position validated. But her pre-war stance can not vindicated on things she could not have known such as lack of WMD stockpiles. That is retroactive justification (no significant German nuke bomb program found after war = no need for Manhattan Project).
I wish them well in trying to reassert democratic values in their own country, and behaving peacefully towards others.
This calls to mind a British peace propaganda film from the mid-30s, made while Hitler was re-arming. It was shown as a pre-program filler in cinemas.
One clip shows a worthy British yeoman leaning on his spade in a tilled field. He says (as I recall), “If my neighbour wants my spade I should just give it to him. I shouldn’t fight him for it. His need may be greater than mine…” Or words to that effect – peace and harmony between nations – brotherly love based on mutual recognition and support, all that sort of thing.
Nothing has changed. What peace propagandists overlook is that my needy neighbour is not going to amble over and give me the choice of handing over my spade or fighting for it, he’s going to sneak up and put a bullet between my eyes and take my spade without asking. Hitler did – and so do modern anti-west aggressors. These days the sensible and pragmatic Western nation pre-empts murderous aggression.
Posted by walterplinge on 08/18 at 06:27 PM • permalink
Bryan—In case you didn’t know, this is what an orgy of killing looks like…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 08/18 at 06:59 PM • permalink
I love even more the confused and befuddled way you can’t quite remeber what it was we invaded Iraq for and murdered all those people.
…which was what exactly?
(I already know your answer, but I’d like to see you say it anyway, so you can show your true moonbat colours and speed up the process of your inevitable re-banning.)
The US isn’t going to pull out of Iraq anytime soon. Those who think or wish it are recklessly incompetant or dangerously naive. Pulling out now will only get you another Sadaam or even worse, another Taliban. Then we’d just have to go in and do this all over again. Cindy Sheehan is a self-serving acid-damaged waste of space and air. She and her merry band of societal vomit can rot in hell.
Eight million Iraqis put their faith in democratic government and a fresh start for their country. Until they are able to to deal with Islamist psychos and old regime goons, the coalition must stay and help.
To leave at such a crucial time would be criminal dereliction. We initiated regime change and are responsible to Iraqis. We cannot let them down again.
Those who send the suicide bombers take heart from political divisions in the West and hope to widen them. An absolute refusal to bow to these killers will shorten Iraq’s trouble and save many lives.
Cindy Sheehan is not honouring her son but I understand what grief can lead to. (Not the motives of the hyenas who exploit it.)
And Bryla’s lack of faith in the people of Iraq is merely another example of the left’s Big Sleep. Oz citizens know a coma when they see one.
Inurbanus—actually, it’s just more bourgie white bigotry… who cares how many brown people die as long as we do well in the next election.
He’d make a hell of a Democrat… and of democracy, hell.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 08/18 at 09:09 PM • permalink
Gee, Margie’s let Bwyan off his leash. She still shagging the hired help Bwyan? y’know she likes them because they’re real men and they work for a living dontcha?
Posted by Deo Vindice on 08/18 at 09:09 PM • permalink
The forced inspection of Iraq for WMDs is in no way parrallel to the appeasement policies of Chamberlain.
The reality is that those inspections were demonstrating that Iraq had in fact disarmed (the IAEA had already found there was no nuclear program) and these inconvenient facts were getting in the way of a war that US leadership wanted.
So they began an orgy of violence.
I’ve learned that “public opinion” can be manipulated for a short time (three years in the case of the Iraq invasion), but the underlying truth will inevitable come out, and people are a lot smarter than many of you give them credit for.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 10:23 PM • permalink
It’s all part of a big show. As I said on another blog, I have an uncle, who is a life long communist, supporter of tge regime in Pyongyang, and who was the chief organiser of the St Valentine’s Day 2003 pro-Ba’athist march in Sydney.
If I were to be killed in a terrorist attack tomorrow morning he would be all over the TV gnashing his teeth in faux rage, blaming Bu$Hitler, BLiar and HoWARd. I have no doubt that the media would lap it up and give him the spotlight whilst completely ignoring my wife and parents.
Oh dear, people are calling me names. I’d better change my beliefs and get with the program, or they might call me more names. What could be worse than that?
I’m soooo soooo sorry. (chuckles)
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 10:26 PM • permalink
Perhaps a perusal of the endgame posited on The Mesopotamian would serve to illustrate what an Iraqi, who still lives in Iraq and has seen the war from a rather close-up perspective, thinks will happen. He has outlined it in detail, day-by-day, if the coalition were to suddenly pull up stakes and leave. By the second day, here is a small part of what will happen:
Day 2: The Anbar province – whole formations of Saddam’s previous organizations emerge from their holes and take control of the streets: Presidential Guards, Mukhabarat, Fedayeen Saddam, General Security, Private Security, Military intelligence, Party Units, etc. etc. ; in addition to Al -Qaida and various assortments of “Isalamists”. The whole of the province falls very quickly even before the last American soldier leaves Baghdad. The takeover takes place without any serious resistance apart from assassinations and murder of all those who are not entirely to the taste of the abovementioned…
The analysis continues, and it is very complete. Province-by-province we are taken through the immense bloodbath that will follow a U.S. retreat. I have no reason to argue with this detailed scenario. I am not informed better than The Mesopotamian, Alaa, about what is really happening in Iraq, but I know it’s not what I hear and see in the MSM nor on the leftwing blogs nor by advocates of such a retreat now writing in this forum. To desire that such a retreat take place is, IMO, either stunningly cynical, very poorly-considered, or motivated by a blind, mindless hatred of Bush, hatred so deep that they would rather see the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens if it meant that Bush could be destroyed thereby. I am chary of saying that the person is just just a bloodthirsty goon because I do not believe anyone in this forum wants to increase the death rate there, however that is exasctly what is going to happen should these ideas find traction.
So I have to consider another alternative: that they know a secret. But what? What are the sources that tell us that it would be better that the U.S. suddenly decide to leave, or even set a date for leaving (just as bad as it will tell these groups just how long they will have to wait)? If there is a reasonable analysis that can counter Alaa’s, I’d like to see it. And I would like to know that it is coming from a source inside Iraq that knows what he/she is talking about and whose agenda is not the takeover of Iraq by anti-democratic forces bent upon the destruction of all hope of attaining – and maintaining – freedom and some form of a pluralistic democracy there. Until then, I remain firmly convinced that a coalition surrender to the ultra-rightist reactionary religious extremists will cost so many lives that it will make anything outside of Africa (the unchallenged #1 killing field of this world at present) look like a rowdy cocktail party.
A few of which, I admit, I may have attended. I just don’t remember them very well. ekw
ekv, that’s a good analysis, and I suspect well grounded in reality. Some questions:
1/ How much responsibility should the U.S., Brittain and Australia take for creating this situation? In hindsight, do you think we might have been better off finalising the inspections before invading and occupying.
2/ How long do you think the coalition is prepared to stay in Iraq in its present condition? 2 years, five years, ten years, a permanent garrison?
3/ What’s the scenario for the well-armed Shia state that seems to be emerging. Is a democracy in the shape of modern Iran to your taste. Are there practical alternatives?
My take is the the U.S. will leave in less than two years, and that whatever I think or say or do is irrelevant to the internal dynamics of U.S. politics. Australia will quit whenever the U.S. does.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/18 at 11:42 PM • permalink
1. Full responsibilty – for freeing Iraq from the grip of a brutal dictatorship and giving Iraqis the chance to elect a representative government.
2. You don’t hand timetables to your enemies. That’s dumb.
3. Your duplicate Iran scenario is a nonsense. Iraq is a a multi-ethnic and multi-religious state and bears little comparison. The Iraqi Shia are not as close to the Iranians as you think.
Your ‘take’, Bryla, I can leave. Go to the Iraqi blogs, as ekw suggests, and learn something from those who have more right – and more knowledge – to prognosticate.
Comfortable bitching comes cheap. Our duty is to give the Iraqis all the help they need to get their country back on its feet after decades of abuse.
Isn’t there a single drop of solidarity and compassion left over for the people of Iraq, after three decades of tyranny, war, and sanctions and now an assault from the vilest movement on the face of the planet? Unless someone gives me a persuasive reason to think otherwise, my provisional conclusion is that the human rights and charitable “communities” have taken a pass on Iraq for political reasons that are not very creditable. And so we watch with detached curiosity, from dry land, to see whether the Iraqis will sink or swim. For shame.
Right on, Mr Hitchens.
Jaffa, you seem to have a convenient lack of memory. After UNSCR 1441, Saddam dumped 12,000 pages and documents on the inspectors desk and said that’s all there is, and you don’t get to root around anymore. Hans Blix noted that Saddam was being very uncooperative with the UN and still had refused to answer their questions.
All Saddam had to do was come clean and Bush would have never had the support of the US Congress to invade. He would have had no choice but to bring the troops home. As it was, Saddam gave him no choice but to go in.
It’s not Bush’s war, it’s Saddam’s war. Saddam initiated it, only time will tell if the Iraqi people can manage the end. We are going to try and be there for them.
Your ‘take’, Bryla, I can leave. Go to the Iraqi blogs, as ekw suggests, and learn something from those who have more right – and more knowledge – to prognosticate.
Inurbanus, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Sadly, what people like Bryla won’t do is learn. They are stuck in a world of their own making, which comforts and holds them. Making that leap from their personal visions to making that vision a reality becomes too much for them, and they shy away from anything that might break into that world.
For whatever reason, this world looks an awful lot like the world that I knew in 1968-1975: surrender, appeasement, isolationism. None of which work. They have learned nothing since then.
I just wish they would. I think that the overall body count would drop enormously.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/19 at 03:14 AM • permalink
Inurbanus, I’m not proposing giving a time-table to anybody. I’m just trying to figure out how long a stupid and futile war can be maintained. By standing mute on the issue you only deprive yourself and your friends the opportunity to think clearly about the situation you’re in. If you were the ones paying the price for that, it wouldn’t be so bad, but the ones dying and suffering deserve more respect.
Abu, what I remember is that the weapons inspectors had access, that the much vaunted (and completely wrong) intelligence provided by U.S. agencies never produced one positive result, and that the disarmament process was rolling along until George W stopped it and gave his high noon declaration.
Jeff S, “surrender, appeasement, isolationism” – when have I ever used these words, or recommended these concepts as a way forward. The decision to get out will be George W’s, and I’ll bet London to a brick that he puts it forward as a “victory”. You know he will too.
Posted by The Real Jaffa on 08/19 at 06:41 AM • permalink
Due to popular demand, the summer repeat season of “Bryla, Episode VIII” has been cancelled.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 08/19 at 07:33 AM • permalink
Bryla, you be banned (heh heh heh!), but I’ll answer anyway.
Nope, you didn’t say the words “surrender, appeasement, isolationism”. What I said was “For whatever reason, this world{i.e., the world you seem to want to exist} looks an awful lot like the world that I knew in 1968-1975: surrender, appeasement, isolationism.”
You are trying to set up conditions similar to what the anti-war crowd wanted in 1968-1975, or even 1935-1941, without using those words. Same difference.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/19 at 08:01 AM • permalink
LOL, PW! Nice leftie channeling there.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/19 at 09:11 AM • permalink
Inurbanus, I’m not proposing giving a time-table to anybody. I’m just trying to figure out how long a stupid and futile war can be maintained.
bryla, think for a minute. These butchers are now targeting hospitals; blowing to pieces those they have already injured – fellow Iraqis. Do you really think they’ll stop if the Americans leave?
What’s going on in Iraq is what has always happened there. The brutality and intimidation of Saddam’s goons, now transformed by the techniques of their jihadist friends. That ‘stupid and futile’ war began long before the coalition intervention.
Your purblind anti-americanism prevents even a rudimentary understanding of what is happening inside Iraq.
The ones dying and suffering deserve more respect.
Yes, they do and how respectful is gutless abandonment?
I had written a long and brilliant piece answering all the person who called himself the Real Jaffa had asked, but it seems that the curvaceous Andrea has delisted him as a contributor. That spares the rest of you from a rather long-winded and slightly (just a weentsy bit) pompous – though extremely erudite and literate – essay on America and Iraq. I’ll leave off posting it now, but it was really top-drawer. Great stuff. It was…ah, hell, say it, Newsweek-good.
ekw
ekw, send it to Bryla by e-mail. I’m sure he’d appreciate the exchange of ideas (cough cough).
He left his e-mail as bryan@cairnspeacebypeace.org.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/19 at 12:44 PM • permalink
You know, I thought, for just one moment, of doing what you suggested. But the thought quickly morphed into the very certain knowledge that I do not want an email exchange with that person. I know how it will go, I know how much of my time and energy (not to mention emotional turmoil, i.e., anger) will be wasted on those emails. So I will let the thing die right here. Not even necessary to sweep up. The ants will get it before bedtime.
ekw
I understand, ekw. I just thought I’d post his e-mail address, to be sure that the bots will harvest it for some spammer.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 08/20 at 03:29 AM • permalink
Commenting is not available in this weblog entry.
Members:
Login | Register | Member List
With extra emphasis on “Sensible”, please. Which seems to be lacking at the Church of The Madonna of the Ditch.