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Last updated on August 5th, 2017 at 04:07 pm

The latest entertainment aboard Virgin Atlantic flights:

Was 9/11 a government set up? You decide.

Everyone’s talking about it so we thought you’d like to see the film that started out as a home movie and became one of the most downloaded documentaries of all time. Was 9/11 a government set up? Were the twin towers brought down in a controlled explosion for an insurance payday?

These questions and more are posed in this controversial film, seen by millions, derided by many. Now it’s your chance to make up your own mind.

Will Virgin allow its passengers to make up their own mind about global warming? Not likely. Email or phone Virgin here.

Posted by Tim B. on 05/02/2007 at 12:37 PM
    1. 9/11 denial should be treated with the same attitude as Holocaust denial.

      Posted by daddy dave on 2007 05 02 at 12:42 PM • permalink


    1. How about the moon landing hoax theory.  Or the flat earth theory.  Or AIDS not caused by HIV theory.  Or racial superiority theory.  Or Young Earth creationist theory.

      All equally valid as the 9/11 one (perhaps some even more so).

      Posted by rbj1 on 2007 05 02 at 12:54 PM • permalink


    1. I thought airlines tended to avoid movies that involved air crashes.

      In any case, this definitely means I’ll never be flying Virgin.

      Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 05 02 at 01:14 PM • permalink


    1. Add Richard Branson to Mark Cuban as billionaires who are eager to profit off mocking the murder of 3000 people.

      Posted by paulris on 2007 05 02 at 01:58 PM • permalink


    1. It’s listed as “Loose Change 2.” I didn’t know there was a sequel. I would have gone with “Looser Change.” Or perhaps “Fakes on a Plane.”

      Posted by Lileks on 2007 05 02 at 02:13 PM • permalink


    1. Branson’s a fucking tool.

      Posted by Dave S. on 2007 05 02 at 02:14 PM • permalink


    1. I sent my email and my Virgin FF number for them to cancel my membership

      Posted by Pogue Mahone on 2007 05 02 at 02:21 PM • permalink


    1. Next thing you know, this idiot will be one of their pilots.

      Posted by El Cid on 2007 05 02 at 02:23 PM • permalink


    1. Contrast Virgin with Southwest Airlines. See here.

      Posted by rightwingprof on 2007 05 02 at 02:26 PM • permalink


    1. Lileks

      How about:

      Imam My Way to Broadway, or Sheiks Your Booty?

      Posted by El Cid on 2007 05 02 at 02:29 PM • permalink


    1. Now it’s your chance to make up your own mind.

      How could any sane person have seen what happened on that horrible day and not have their mind already made up?  But I answer my own question.

      Posted by RebeccaH on 2007 05 02 at 02:59 PM • permalink


    1. #9:

      I can’t get the link to work right now (the site seems to be down) but oddly enough, I booked a trip on Southwest just a few minutes before seeing that.

      Posted by Vexorg on 2007 05 02 at 03:28 PM • permalink


    1. I’ll bet they never even thought of showing United 93.

      I had a student bring Loose Change to me last fall-she wanted me to show it in class.  I was very restrained.  Why, I’m sure she’s walking fine now.

      Posted by 68W40 on 2007 05 02 at 03:32 PM • permalink


    1. Interesting how people saying “make up your own mind” or “just asking questions” always do so with (mis)leading questions, false assertions, implication, or outright deception.

      Probably because they know damn well that mere facts and evidence would lead people to make up their own minds… contrary to the desired result.

      Posted by Sigivald on 2007 05 02 at 03:46 PM • permalink


    1. The whole movie list seems… odd.  I don’t know who expects to have an inflight movie they actually *want* to see, but the whole list still seems… odd.

      Posted by Synova on 2007 05 02 at 03:49 PM • permalink


    1. I followed a link to this little gem after a fuel truck melted a highway overpass in San Fransisco the other day.  You know fire can’t melt steel and all.

      Wouldn’t this be like showing the Titanic or Poseidon Adventure on a cruise ship??

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 05 02 at 04:06 PM • permalink


    1. #15 Synova. I agree. Even Top Gear, the only item on the list that I would watch is… odd.

      Posted by Skeeter on 2007 05 02 at 04:13 PM • permalink


    1. I am not advocating censorship but I think that showing any movie about the events of 9/11 on an airplane in flight indicates—at least to me—an enormous lack of regard on the part of the airline for the emotional well-being of its passengers, whether the passengers choose to watch it or not.

      Posted by Tai Chi Wawa on 2007 05 02 at 04:19 PM • permalink


    1. Loose Change 2 includes the news that United Flight #93 landed safely in Cleveland Ohio, on September 11, and passengers were marched off the plane by government agents, never to be heard from again.

      Exactly what a Virgin customer halfway across the Atlantic would like to hear.

      Posted by Rittenhouse on 2007 05 02 at 04:40 PM • permalink


    1. If this is on those planes that have bus-style drop-down LCD screens in the ceilings every few rows, people aren’t even going to have the choice. You can switch to another channel if it’s the seat-back style LCDs, but if the movie is on every LCD in the plane, not under passenger control… even without audio, what they’re doing is forcing every passenger to spend their flight seeing images of the Twin Towers and Pentagon engulfed in flames. That right there is the absolute height of tactlessness.

      I thought Brits were supposed to be polite

      Posted by Brian Tiemann on 2007 05 02 at 04:42 PM • permalink


    1. #16 Great link.

      Posted by Synova on 2007 05 02 at 05:05 PM • permalink


    1. I believe Virgin has lost its maidenhead.

      Posted by paco on 2007 05 02 at 06:18 PM • permalink


    1. Goddammit. I will never fly any airline, but I have this stupid cell phone account with Virgin because I like the telephone (it was plain, cheap—again; I am all about the cheap—and had big buttons for my clumsy senile fingers), and now this makes me want to send Richard Branson a letter full of swearing and throw the phone into the ocean. Fortunately I don’t live within a short bus ride to the ocean these days…

      Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 05 02 at 06:29 PM • permalink


    1. I thought airlines tended to avoid movies that involved air crashes.

      But that’s the whole point, isn’t it. In Loose Change Bizarro World, there were no crashes.

      Here’s a great guide to the video, now it it’s third editing (via Screw Loose Change).

      My email to Virgin:

      I understand you now offer that paean to moonbattery Loose Change in-flight. It seems you want to give the flying public a chance to make up its own mind about September 11. I think you’ll find most thinking people have made up their minds about the day Islamic terrorists used hi-jacked commercial jets as weapons of mass destruction. Any airline that would entertain theories to the contrary is an airline that quite possibly would entertain a relaxation of anti-terrorist security measures. Well, that’s not the airline for me, so I’ve booked my flight to London with Northwest.

      (The last is a bit of truthiness as I booked that flight several weeks ago.)

      Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 05 02 at 06:31 PM • permalink


    1. Email sent.

      I had only flown Virgin Blue before but this incident gives a great reason not to fly Virgin Atlantic in the future. I’m sticking to Lufthansa…

      /I like Lufthansa

      Posted by Villeurbanne on 2007 05 02 at 06:42 PM • permalink


    1. 9/11

      It was an act of war.

      Why didn’t America respond?

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 06:47 PM • permalink


    1. F#$&% Virgin.

      Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 05 02 at 06:49 PM • permalink


    1. I’m flying out to England this summer. Thanks to this lovely piece of shite, I’ll go with anybody BUT them. I’m pretty sure Mom and Dad don’t want their teenage daughter having to watch conspiracy crap for eight hours. *shudder*

      Posted by Tungsten Monk on 2007 05 02 at 06:59 PM • permalink


    1. #16

      Wouldn’t this be like showing the Titanic or Poseidon Adventure on a cruise ship??

      I saw the Poseidon remake on a cruise ship, The Pacific Star.

      So now I now anything’s possible.


      Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 05 02 at 07:13 PM • permalink


    1. My email sent too.
      I pointed out to these yuppie postmodernist idiots that they are actually running AN AIRLINE, not a fascist-sympathising fantasy youth movement.

      Posted by Barrie on 2007 05 02 at 07:41 PM • permalink


    1. #25 I like Lufthansa

      Like the old joke says:

      Fly Lufthansa to London – we know the way.

      Posted by Apparatchik on 2007 05 02 at 07:46 PM • permalink


    1. Email sent.


      Posted by Paul Wright on 2007 05 02 at 07:50 PM • permalink


    1. I sent an e-mail as well, telling those cretins that I intend never to fly on Virgin Atlantic.

      And, by God, I won’t.

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 02 at 07:52 PM • permalink


    1. Disturbingly ironical! By encouraging the denial of the reality of airplane hijacking Virgin is aiding terrorism which makes them effectively part of an inside job.

      Posted by Zuzzy on 2007 05 02 at 08:42 PM • permalink


    1. I’m so mad.  I have two non-refundable tickets on the POS airline for the 14th.  I bought them months ago.  I will never fly them after and if there was a way I could get my money back, I would cancel.  If they weren’t business class I would seriously entertain eating the cost and flying BA.  It’s too bad for them, my husband’s company just opened an office in the UK and we will be going frequently.  So will many of his employees.  I am going to call them tomorrow and voice my complaint, I think being ticket holder may help.

      Posted by AnnNY on 2007 05 02 at 08:43 PM • permalink


    1. email sent querying their choice of documentary in light of the non-existence of anything factual in that film

      makes it easier to choose which airline to fly

      ps singapore airlines is nice 🙂

      Posted by peter m on 2007 05 02 at 09:02 PM • permalink


    1. #29

      You know, after I hit submit I thought…“someone has seen one of these on a cruise ship”

      why am I not surprised??

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 05 02 at 09:17 PM • permalink


    1. These days they’ll turn you away for uttering the word “bomb” in the check-in queue but you get on the plane get told the government crashes planes to suit their agenda. Consistency?

      Posted by HC44 on 2007 05 02 at 09:20 PM • permalink


    1. Richard Branson is showing this movie on his flights because of the problems he has had trying to launch his discount airline in the US. It is how Branson does business. Discredit anyone who gets in your way.

      Branson has one interest in life and that is amassing money. He says he backs Gore’s greenhouse gas campaign yet he screams   blue murder because the rules stop him putting a extra 34 jetliners into the skies. Branson is backing Gore because he looking at the money-making opportunities of global warming, just like Gore. How long will it be before before we have to pay Virgin Weather everytime it rains?

      Posted by Contrail on 2007 05 02 at 09:43 PM • permalink


    1. I don’t fly. Arms tire really fast.

      But I did send a message.

      Since Britain has a large contingent of Islamists, some of which have already used the train system for terror purposes, I would suggest that Virgin be very careful.

      But should one or two get loose, hope that the RAF shoots them down, OR chases them into French air space, then turns around.

      Posted by El Cid on 2007 05 02 at 09:44 PM • permalink


    1. I bet United Airlines wouldn’t show anything like this…

      Posted by Dan Lewis on 2007 05 02 at 09:52 PM • permalink


    1. First they call it a home movie. Then a documentary, then a controversial film.
      Covering all the categories I see.

      They left out hallucination, paranoid speculation and manga.

      Posted by carpefraise on 2007 05 02 at 10:02 PM • permalink


    1. #24: Any airline that would entertain theories to the contrary is an airline that quite possibly would entertain a relaxation of anti-terrorist security measures.

      Now, that is what I call a genuine smack upside the head that might get their attention. Good one, Kyda.

      El Cid, I also like your rough and ready cautionary tale. Personally, I only travel by submarine.

      Posted by paco on 2007 05 02 at 10:05 PM • permalink


    1. Must have ‘em cheering in the aisles when they screen this approaching JFK.

      Have always hated Virgin, but by God I love Aer Lingus.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 05 02 at 10:05 PM • permalink


    1. by God I love Aer Lingus.

      That’s when you go down on a chick in a airplane, right?

      Posted by Dave S. on 2007 05 02 at 10:10 PM • permalink


    1. #45 – Sure is. And then you ask her to kiss your blarney stones.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 05 02 at 10:14 PM • permalink


    1. #45 and #46

      Dave S and Infidel Tiger,

      you two are so naughty.

      Go and sit in the corner.

      Posted by Pogria on 2007 05 02 at 10:28 PM • permalink


    1. Life imitates Airplane!

      Posted by Tommy Shanks on 2007 05 02 at 10:38 PM • permalink


    1. #40 El Cid:

      “Britain … Islamists … have already used the train system for terror purposes…”

      El Cid, it’s not widely known yet, but the London trains were bombed by MI16, with CIA and Mossad help. Documentary is coming.

      Posted by Honkie Hammer on 2007 05 02 at 10:39 PM • permalink


    1. Copy of the email just sent:

      Hello Virgin people.

      I note that you are showing

      “LOOSE CHANGE 2:

      Warning: Contains disturbing scenes.

      Was 9/11 a government set up? You decide.”

      on Virgin Atlantic flights.

      While some far-left wing university students may applaud this, the more sane members of society may think that you are out of your minds to be showing weirdo conspiracy theories to your passengers. I have to assume that your attitude to airline security is also as far-out as your choice of movies and thus I won’t be travelling with you again. I am a professional who travels abroad each year and many times domestically. I was looking forward to trying your new US service. Feel free to email me back when you rejoin the land of the sane.

      Maybe take a look at to see some of your other ex-customers’ reaction.

      And it’s true – was just tossing up between the two airlines – makes it pretty easy.

      Posted by mark on 2007 05 02 at 10:43 PM • permalink


    1. I will soon be screening my homemade documentary “Richard Branson – Kiddie Fiddling Goat Felcher”. I present graphic evidence of Branson driving past kindergartens and farms with a big goofy grin on is buck toothed bonce.

      The evidence is damning, but I’ll let you decide.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 05 02 at 10:49 PM • permalink


    1. Coming soon to Blair Channel
      Tonight at 7pm Blair Movie’s

      ……..“Dangerous Liaisons” …….
      Star studded cast….
      Margosmaid as Marquise De Merteuil.
      Tim Blair as Valmont
      1.618 as Madame De Tourvel
      kae as Cecile De Volanges
      Paco as Chevalier Danceny
      ““To seduce a woman famous for strict morals, religious fervour and the happiness of her marriage, what could possibly be more prestigous?”  (cut next scene…)

      But I shall require proof.” – Merteuil (looking like a bold and beautiful character….)

      I shant have a moments peace until its over. I love her, I hate her. My life is a misery.” – Valmont
      Dangerous Liasons Tonight at 7 on Blair Channel.

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 10:53 PM • permalink


    1. Does this mean I have to fly Qantas? Dang – and their hosties were always the hottest chicks

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 05 02 at 10:56 PM • permalink


    1. Margos

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 10:58 PM • permalink


    1. I heard that QF flighty Fine’s tried to swindle other flight attendants (ie one for $10,000) shonky scam…

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 10:59 PM • permalink


    1. Margos,are you a lesbian>?

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 10:59 PM • permalink


    1. Just very, very confused 1.6.

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 05 02 at 11:00 PM • permalink


    1. Are you drunk Margos?

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 11:01 PM • permalink


    1. Dear 1.618,

      Thanks for enjoying my movie!

      Love Margosmaid
      (lady or man)
      Sign here please so I can cut and paste …ta.



      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 11:02 PM • permalink


    1. Sterling work as always 1.6 Cheerios

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 05 02 at 11:11 PM • permalink


    1. Hi World (waves)

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 02 at 11:12 PM • permalink


    1. The Truth About 4/29!

      Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2007 05 02 at 11:21 PM • permalink


    1. OT Australian-born US soldier dies in Iraq

      Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 05 03 at 12:29 AM • permalink


    1. Just saw a comment (currently the last one) over at Hot Air:

      Meanwhile, Virgin Atlantic Airlines proudly announces that it will be showing the nutjob 911 Conspiracy film “Loose Change” on its flights.
      LGF has the details and contact info here.

      The rumor is that Branson is ready to rename his airline to: 72 Virgins Airline

      auzerais on May 2, 2007 at 9:32 PM

      Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 05 03 at 01:12 AM • permalink


    1. #63 Muzzie Zapper

      It’s sad when any soldier loses their life, but wait for the papers here to claim this death as an ADF death – as they did when the Aussie serving with the Brits was killed in the chopper shoot down. And I know that the media was as pissed as hell when they discovered that Kovco wasn’t killed by the enemy. Our media has been salivating since the start of the conflict for the first ADF fatality at the hands of the enemy. They truly sicken me.

      Posted by Justin on 2007 05 03 at 01:39 AM • permalink


    1. #65 – It’s front page of The West – “Perth family mourn 21-year-old son killed while fighting Iraqi insurgents”.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 05 03 at 01:44 AM • permalink


    1. Totally OT, but made me laugh. Naked man ‘superglued to exercise bike’:

      A GANG stripped a South African man before supergluing him to an exercise bicycle while they ransacked his house, according to a report today.

      It must have been an ordeal, but the mental image…

      Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 05 03 at 03:20 AM • permalink


    1. #48
      “Captain Oveur speaking, we’d like to introduce you to a new documentary about Richard Branson, recently added to our screening list: ‘Screw Loose 2’”.

      Posted by egg_ on 2007 05 03 at 03:33 AM • permalink


    1. This is quite unacceptable. I find it grossly offensive, for the very good reason that I lost two professional acquaintances in those attacks. Therefore, I have sent the following, with appropriate images:

      Dear Virgin Atlantic

      I note that the unhinged and completely fact-free conspiracy theorist propaganda film ‘Loose Change’ is being shown on your flights as a “documentary”

      How nice!

      In view of your company’s apparent penchant for all that is offensive, loathsome and vile, may I suggest you add the following wondrous documentaries? They will truly fit Virgin’s style.
      IMAGE (The Eternal Jew)

      The Eternal Jew is right up your alley! Produced by Fritz Hippler at the behest of the well-known “Truth-teller” Josef Goebbels. “The Eternal Jew” is a truly depraved and sickening Nazi propaganda film made to justify the butchery of European Jewry. This unspeakably vile Nazi propaganda is jam-packed with lies, fabrications and distortions. As such, it is a wonderful matching “documentary” for Loose Change.

      IMAGE (The Triumph of the Will)

      Another marvellous addition to your in-flight documentary selection is this absolute gem by Leini Reifenstahl, one of the finest nazi propagandists. It details all that was most admirable about national socialism and its charming leader, little Adolf.

      After all, Virgin is committed to ‘letting people make up their own minds’.

      I am so charmed by your actions that I will henceforth, refuse to use any Virgin company, franchise, service or good. Poor Richard will have to do without one red cent from me or mine.



      This is just not on. Branson gets income from his Australian franchise too. Too bad, so sad, I have just rebooked my next flights – with another airline.

      Posted by MarkL on 2007 05 03 at 06:01 AM • permalink


    1. Hey, calm down everyone. The righteous outrage levels makes this look like a lefty site.

      I would have thought healthy scepticism was everyone’s cup of tea here. Ala, AGW.

      Can you really believe the freefall of the two towers, without demolition?
      Unhit, unconnected Building 7 WTC going down in sympathy.
      (At best) novice pilots pulling off 5G turns.
      The Airforce not responding while these planes tool around crashing into things.

      Posted by boxofmatches on 2007 05 03 at 07:22 AM • permalink


    1. boxofmatches I’m not sure if you’re being a patsy or an arsehole. If you’re being a patsy, wise up. If you’re being an arsehole, fuck off.

      Posted by JonathanH on 2007 05 03 at 07:39 AM • permalink


    1. which is more or less what I just emailed to Virgin. Certainly won’t be flying them again.

      Posted by JonathanH on 2007 05 03 at 07:44 AM • permalink


    1. #68
      Captain Oveur here again, we understand that the turkey in first class is over done; I’ll be handing over shortly to 1st Officer Dunn when I’m done, over.

      Posted by egg_ on 2007 05 03 at 07:56 AM • permalink


    1. Box – I prefer facts rather than lies thanks.

      You are aware of the photos and even video showing WTC7 having had an entire bottom corner knocked off by falling debris?

      I say “lies” rather than pardonable mistakes of fact because not to know this by now shows a reckless disregard for truth in order to fit some preconceived notion.

      The answer to my seemingly rhetorical question is important. Either you are aware, and are trolling or psychotic, or you are not aware, and therefore wilfully and negligently ignorant.

      Freefall of top levels of towers when supporting steel softens – yes I believe that. Pancaking of floors hit by thousands, then tens of thousands of tons of debris at 30,40, and after ~13 seconds, 100 metres a second, yes, I believe that, in fact, I would find anything else to be frankly incredible.

      5G? Without the wings and control surfaces falling off? Where did you get this figure from? Did you just make it up? Oh wait, Joe Vialls said it. The same guy who said Bali was a nuclear strike by the Jews. Well, a stopped clock is still right twice a day, so let’s look at what the eyewitnesses actually said, not what Joe said they said (without saying who they were). I’ll leave that as an exercise, Google is your friend. (Hint : See URL later in this post)

      And the Airforce did respond, too little, too late. First they had to arm some aircraft, who then headed out to pre-arranged rendezvous points out to sea for further instructions on intercepting invading aircraft. Except in this regard alone, it was an “inside job”, hijacked domestic airliners not enemy bombers from overseas.

      Now go read Popular Mechanics on the subject.

      Posted by Zoe Brain on 2007 05 03 at 08:03 AM • permalink


    1. You are aware of the photos and even video showing WTC7 having had an entire bottom corner knocked off by falling debris?

      Crap. Unmitigated crap.

      Cough up a link. Good luck.

      Posted by boxofmatches on 2007 05 03 at 08:18 AM • permalink


    1. boxofmatches is being his incendary self.

      Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 05 03 at 08:23 AM • permalink


    1. Crap. Unmitigated crap.

      You summed up your theory quite well……..

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 05 03 at 08:59 AM • permalink


    1. #77

      Crap. Unmitigated crap.

      You summed up your theory quite well……..

      Amazing how quickly he goes from “ooooh, aren’t we being touchy!”, to Mr. Overly Sensitive when his own position is questioned, isn’t it?

      Posted by AlburyShifton on 2007 05 03 at 09:22 AM • permalink


    1. #75
      Oh good come back Boxes. Now thats going to be a hard argument to beat thats for sure. Guess I’m going to have to do some serious research to top that…

      Posted by jon crow on 2007 05 03 at 09:49 AM • permalink


    1. Cough up a link. Good luck.

      Zoe did.  To Popular Mechanics.  Which you ignored.

      Now go fly Virgin Atlantic.  Or just fuck off.

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 03 at 09:51 AM • permalink


    1. Well okay, looks like Box of Matches is being a moron. We already have Miranda Divide—I’m not sure this site needs one more idiot.

      By the way, Boxie, this didn’t happen in some long ago time, reported only be superstitious, ganja-smoking tribespeople as “the time when Great God Awk destroy tall building!” This happened just a few years ago, and it was all on live tv. I’d like to see you—and the Truther shits—confront people who were actually there, in New York, fleeing falling debris, on September 11th. If there was any justice in the world there wouldn’t enough left of you to scrape up with a spoon after that.

      Liars are contemptible. People who try to convince others that what they saw with their own eyes didn’t really happen are so beneath contempt that I’m not sure there is even a word in the English language to describe it. I’d send you to hell, but I get the feeling you’d meet the Devil shaking his head and going “Dude…”

      Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 05 03 at 10:57 AM • permalink


    1. Boxofmatches, I think Zoe answered your post perfectly, and I advise you to re-read it. Zoe also linked to Popular Mechanics, and I think you should give that a read too.

      Healthy scepticism is a good thing, with things that are unable to be proven, exactly like AGW. However, Building 7 of the WTC is a completely separate type of situation. The mechanics behind how Building 7 collapsed have been explored by people with far more engineering knowledge than myself, and many of them agree that there was structural damage that wasn’t noticed after the collapse of the Twin Towers. This would most likely be because in all the panic following the collapse, I’d bet that everyone was doing what they could to find people in the wreckage of the Towers and trying to save lives, rather than examine a building that didn’t visually appear to have much damage.

      The only thing needed to collapse Building 7 was a breach of one of the columns holding up the building. Considering the shock that would have travelled through the ground when two large buildings collapsed, combined with the fire that happened on the fifth floor of Building 7 (which was fed by a continuous line of fuel and wasn’t combatted by the firefighters there because they were pulling people out of the Towers), don’t you think it’s more likely that at least one of the columns was under extreme pressure and so collapsed?

      Popular Mechanics also had this to say, and I think you should consider it: “Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia.”

      Posted by Ash_ on 2007 05 03 at 11:06 AM • permalink


    1. You know, the thing that gets me is 99% of the American population were glued to their TV sets watching this whole thing transpire.  We watched the TV commentators doing extensive analysis including estimating the risk that WTC 7 would fall.  When it ultimately did collapse, it was completely expected.

      There is absolutely no way imaginable that any group of people, no matter how smart and evil, could conspire to make three large buildings collapse and pin it on the jihadis.  For certain leftists to try to do so defies logic and shows them as the prejudiced arseholes they are.

      Posted by wronwright on 2007 05 03 at 11:08 AM • permalink


    1. Rolling Stone knows how it went down:

      BUSH: So, what’s the plan again?

      CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we’ve decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they’re real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we’ll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

      RUMSFELD: Right! And we’ll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we’ll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

      CHENEY: No, Dick, we won’t.

      RUMSFELD: We won’t?

      CHENEY: No, that’s too obvious. We’ll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

      RUMSFELD: But if we’re just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam’s fingerprints on the attack?

      CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we’re not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

      BUSH: I’m a total idiot who can barely read, so I’ll buy that. But I’ve got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don’t we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

      RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don’t understand. It’s much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

      CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism—and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

      RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of fucking nowhere.

      Posted by paulris on 2007 05 03 at 11:10 AM • permalink


    1. Part 2:

      CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash—we’ll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it’ll really be a cruise missile.

      BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

      CHENEY: Because it’s much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It’s not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

      BUSH: But aren’t we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

      CHENEY: Mr. President, you’re missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

      BUSH: Right, but I’m saying, why don’t we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We’ll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

      CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

      RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it’s sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we’ll be doing just that in New York.

      BUSH: Oh, OK.

      RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It’s always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure—you can’t pull off any good conspiracy without them.

      BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there’s one thing about Americans—they won’t let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they’d never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

      CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

      RUMSFELD: Well, I’m sold on the idea. Let’s call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we’ll need to pull this off. There isn’t a moment to lose!

      BUSH: Don’t forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They’ll be thrilled to know that we’ll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we’re going to make martyrs—why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? Shit, didn’t the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

      RUMSFELD: Oh, they’ll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the “Big Wedding”!

      ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!

      via Ace of Spades HQ

      Posted by paulris on 2007 05 03 at 11:11 AM • permalink


    1. #83 Wronwright, not to mention that there’s no way that a governmental conspiracy of this magnitude would work.

      Eventually, considering the number of people needed, someone would feel guilty and would talk. And if someone did talk and claim that it was a government conspiracy, no matter how fast the government “shut them up” (as leftists would claim), someone would still on-tell the story. It’d take about two seconds to get all over the world.

      Posted by Ash_ on 2007 05 03 at 11:23 AM • permalink


    1. hey, we all know how good our government is at keeping a secret…….just ask the NYT…

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 05 03 at 11:38 AM • permalink


    1. “It was only the most over-complicated, flawlessly-executed plan ever, EVER!!!” -South Park Bush(?)

      Posted by Patrick Chester on 2007 05 03 at 12:18 PM • permalink


    1. Breaking: Branson blinks.

      Posted by Damian P. on 2007 05 03 at 01:44 PM • permalink


    1. #84 & #85,

      Amazing how that comes startling close to a real planning session of the VRWC.  The only exception is it didn’t have Karl Rove sitting while looking thoughtfully over steepled fingers.

      Posted by wronwright on 2007 05 03 at 02:00 PM • permalink


    1. Drat.  Link doesn’t work, Damian P.

      Posted by RebeccaH on 2007 05 03 at 02:01 PM • permalink


    1. Also, just let me add that the commenters here, by and large, are definitely not morons who would buy into that “911 Truther” crap.  Boxofmatches, I’ve seen your stuff before and you never struck me as a moron either.  Apparently I was wrong.

      Posted by RebeccaH on 2007 05 03 at 02:11 PM • permalink


    1. #92 Rebecca: Try this link.

      By the way, remember that age-old advice from mothers everywhere: don’t play with matches.

      Posted by paco on 2007 05 03 at 02:18 PM • permalink


    1. #92, before today’s posts, I felt the same way.

      Posted by Ash_ on 2007 05 03 at 02:23 PM • permalink


    1. Woo Hoo!  Branson blinks!

      Ain’t much, really, but it’s good to see common sense prevail…..even if you have to kick a crein in the ass.

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 03 at 03:07 PM • permalink


    1. BTW, who wants to bet that those idiot producers of Loose Change 2 start work on the sequel:

      Loose Change 3: How The Bushitler Neocon Joint International Conspiracy Crush Our Dissent.

      Methinks that this might be the perfect job for Producing Amazing Conspiracies Organization, eh?

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 03 at 03:12 PM • permalink


    1. Oh, that should be “creTin”, not “crein”.  Guess I was woo hooing too much.  Heh!

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 03 at 03:13 PM • permalink


    1. TRJS
      Isn’t the proper spelling still cretan?


      Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2007 05 03 at 04:09 PM • permalink


    1. Only if Chris Sheil is a Truther, JM!


      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 05 03 at 04:46 PM • permalink


    1. Well if the planes flying into things was a hoax, does that say something about Branson’s stunts?

      His crossing of the Atlantic by boat was actually filmed in a large tank in Mexico.  That was later taken over for the filming of “Titanic”.

      All his hot air balloon trips were shot against a blue screen in a studio in Bulgaria.

      His “Virgin Gallactic” trips will actually be cleverly disguised 727’s that will simply take the stupid customers up on a parabolic arc, giving them a bit of weightlessness for a few minutes.  All footage of Virgin Gallactic flights will actually be put together by the same special effects team that brought us “Happy Feet”.

      I am going to ask Virgin if we can now dispense with all those pesky security checks before boarding flights these days – the taking off of the shoes, the confiscation of nail scissors, and ban on carrying liquids, the big queues at the x-ray machines.

      If the answer is “No”, then they’ll simply be asked to “please explain”.

      Posted by mr creosote on 2007 05 03 at 07:05 PM • permalink


    1. Branson’s main business tactic is to whine and whinge and take court action against the existing players in any business. He drags out a few tired pop stars to impress a media besotted with celebrity.

      From my experience, Virgin products are crap behind a shiny veneer – just like Branson.

      PS: More than anything, I hate the way Branson sticks his chin out when being interviewed. He does it to stretch out his middle age neck wrinkles.

      Posted by Contrail on 2007 05 03 at 07:47 PM • permalink


    1. Thanks for the link, Paco.  Frankly, while it seems that Virgin may have backed off, they did some fancy footwork while doing so.  I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they try and sneak that dog back in after the heat’s off.

      Posted by RebeccaH on 2007 05 03 at 07:54 PM • permalink


    1. What I don’t understand is why the airline would propose a gimick like this that was sure to make a lot of potential customers angry. Makes me wonder if maybe there isn’t a wide vein of incompetence running through the company that’s one day going to do it in.

      Posted by paco on 2007 05 03 at 08:18 PM • permalink


    1. That’s outrageous!
      My suggestion to others similarly outraged is to boycott all Virgin products.

      Posted by Brian on 2007 05 03 at 09:12 PM • permalink


    1. I am the ghost of Mark Latham! booo boooo

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 05 03 at 10:23 PM • permalink


    1. #104 You can boycott virgins if you want…

      Posted by dean martin on 2007 05 04 at 04:02 AM • permalink


    1. “You are aware of the photos and even video showing WTC7 having had an entire bottom corner knocked off by falling debris?”

      I’d love to see them! I’m still waiting for links to these photos and video of this event.

      The twins towers collapsed into their own footprints, thats the point of a controlled demolition. There was no debris that “knocked out a corner of WTC7”. IT would have have to have swerved between WTC 5 and 6. A better achievement than a magic bullet.

      magic debris

      Apply your critical faculties. The official story is bunkum.

      Posted by boxofmatches on 2007 05 04 at 04:12 AM • permalink


    1. Okay, boxofmatches, you are banned. Some lines are simply not to be crossed, and you crossed one.

      Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 05 04 at 05:45 AM • permalink


    1. YAY!!!  ANDREA!!!!

      by the way, how was the move, and how are the cats?

      Posted by Pogria on 2007 05 04 at 07:19 AM • permalink


    1. Because someone has to:

      NIST powerpoint on WTC7 collapse.

      For the idiots among us: the truss transfer framing system over the substation got broke and it suffered progressive damage until it could take no more, then it fell down.

      Ships suffer this sort of thing too. It is common in damaged steel structures.

      Boxhead is a matchless idiot.


      Posted by MarkL on 2007 05 04 at 08:44 AM • permalink


    1. *shakes head, mutters quietly to self. don’t mention OBL’s admission of guilt…*

      Posted by CB on 2007 05 04 at 09:15 AM • permalink


    1. Wow matchless, look at the pretty pictures, just like you asked……..

      Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out..

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 05 04 at 11:22 AM • permalink


    1. Ignore what #112 said. I hope that the door beats you to death. That would be a controlled demolition.

      Posted by Blue Hen on 2007 05 04 at 12:48 PM • permalink


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