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Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 01:24 pm
There are two terrorist trials underway in Australia at the moment, one in Melbourne, and this one in Sydney:
Court documents allege that as well as planning to construct improvised explosive devices, a massive arsenal was part of the group’s plans for an attack.
They show that a search in June last year of the home of one of the accused, Mohamed Ali Elomar, unearthed a cache of 12 rifles and pistols and 28,198 rounds of ammunition including 11,765 rounds of 7.62-calibre ammunition …
Two more of the accused, Bradley Umar Baladjam and Mazen Touma were observed in June last year loading 7500 rounds of the same 7.62-calibre ammunition into a truck, which police later seized.
Baladjam also tried to purchase a further 20,000 rounds of the 7.62 ammunition between July and August last year.
Among leftoid responses when these boys were arrested last year:
Larvatus Prodeo: “I suppose the PM and Minister Ruddock had to produce something to justify the surprise railroading of the ‘just one little word’ amendment.”
wsacaucus.org: “I think it’s too early to say just yet what this all means.”
Ms Fits: “I think they’re going to explode something non-specific in a fashion that is an affront to freedom and the Australian way of life!”
Anonymous Lefty: “Look! A shiny penny!”
Antony Loewenstein: “America and its allies, including Australia, are about to suffer a horrendous case of ‘blowback.’”
And my favourite …
Rex Ringschott: “Let’s hope this doesn’t radicalise our Muslim community any further.”
- Someone whould ensure that these guys get the long sentence they deserve. And the same for the terrorists, too.
In reality, though, that seem about as likely as this guy having actualy beat himself up as the Chinese claim he did.
Posted by Villeurbanne on 2006 07 27 at 07:07 AM • permalink
- Only 28,198 rounds of ammunition? The only time I run that low is when I’ve gone to the range a few times and forgot to stock up.Posted by Spectre765 on 2006 07 27 at 07:12 AM • permalink
- An average soldier going into combat has 1 mag on the weapon (30 rounds) and maybe 4 more mags in pouches (120 rounds). Total: 150 rounds.
A quick calculation indicates these fellows allegedly had on them enough 7.62 rounds to arm about 80 soldiers. Either it was going to be a sustained campaign or a large one off attack.
- “Let’s hope this doesn’t radicalise our Muslim community any further.”
To paraphrase that masterful movie Team America … “Hey terrorist … radicalise this!”
Posted by Vincent Gerome on 2006 07 27 at 07:25 AM • permalink
- lingus4
My guess is that as wannabee heros they were using the A-team ammo method. Where you get to fire ALL your bullets off before you are captured, escape, and live to a ripe old age.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 27 at 07:28 AM • permalink
- Slightly O/T : did Tim include “blowback” in his recent Continuing Crisis lexicon? It richly deserves a spot of redefinition.Posted by James Waterton on 2006 07 27 at 07:37 AM • permalink
He’s not a Jihadi : he’s just a naughty little boy.
ITYM “excitable boy”.
I won’t ask the obvious question about all the guns and ammo. No need to re-open that can of worms.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 07 27 at 07:37 AM • permalink
11,765 rounds of 7.62-calibre ammunition … 7500 rounds of the same 7.62-calibre ammunition … tried to purchase a further 20,000 rounds of the 7.62 ammunition
They were putting together 40,000 rounds of 7.62 x 39mm? That suggests to me two possibilities:
1) They were buying the bullets to ship elsewhere.
2) They wanted the bullets for something other than shooting—say, as shrapnel in bombs—and 7.62 x 39 mm was the easiest to get.
I mean, assuming a huge terrorist attack where ten people with RPK light machine guns carry ten of the large 75-round drums each, you still only need 7500 rounds. You’re not going to have an opportunity to fire 40,000 rounds in Australia before being hunted down and killed.
Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2006 07 27 at 08:05 AM • permalink
- They show that a search in June last year of the home of one of the accused, Mohamed Ali Elomar, unearthed a cache of 12 rifles and pistols and 28,198 rounds of ammunition including 11,765 rounds of 7.62-calibre ammunition
I think WL (#14) is on the right track; either that, or the boys were wildly over-optimistic about the length of time they’d be able to maintain operations “in the field”. A man’s got to know his limitations . . .
- Lingus 4
When this average soldier went into combat, particularly on the second patrol, I carried two bandoleers with 7 x 20 rd mags each, one on the rifle and 6 in basic pouches. Admittedly 5.56 but 420 rounds. If I was going to get the chop it was not going to be because I ran out of ammo. Having said that the terrorists were obviously not planning a rabbit hunt with enough first-line 7.62×39 ammo for 30 men.
Chilling thoughtPosted by KevGillett on 2006 07 27 at 08:44 AM • permalink
- “7.62 calibre” is a little vague. Was it 7.62×39, 7.62×51 or 7.62×54? Perhaps .30 M-1? It could even have been good ol’ .30/30 Winchester! The press really has to nail these things down. Inquiring minds want to know.Posted by Spectre765 on 2006 07 27 at 08:47 AM • permalink
- Spectre765
Most probably 7.62×39. A lot came into the country when gunnies could by Chicom SKSs. Don’t expect a journo to know…they’re just bulletsto themPosted by KevGillett on 2006 07 27 at 08:58 AM • permalink
- Spectre765—
The full article quotes a police report that specifically mentions that it’s ammo for SKS and AK-47, and there’s also a mention of it being “7.6239 mm”, which looks to me like a garbled reference to 7.62 x 39 mm.
Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2006 07 27 at 09:16 AM • permalink
- I’m the last person you’d imagine to complain about people buying their ammo in bulk. I certainly do.
But I don’t have blinders on; the leftie reactions (“I think it’s too early to say just yet what this all means”, for example) are
incrediblywillfully stupid. That much ammo being purchased by a non-dealer is a clear sign something may be amiss.So I have to classify this one as a good catch. But then, I’m not one to worry about pissing off some vocal minority.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 27 at 09:24 AM • permalink
- The @rsehole lefties trying to fudge the issue and play down the real threat are as bigger swines as these imported jihadi scum… was it Lincoln that said about the US (and refers to us too) that the only way we’ll ever fall is if we are brought down from inside!!!!
and yes, we have become so accustomed to being let down by the courts and the do-gooders that you know its almost a forgone conclusion…. wonder if they could find any evidence as to what particular grievance it was that caused them to want to go out and slaughter their fellow citizens??? as long as they didn’t think their disability pensions weren’t high enough to let them indulge in their usual fanatics, i somehow doubt it was poverty that drove them to it…
- It just goes to show you. Evil prevails when good man do nothing. But EVIL Really RULES when Lefties get into power.Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 07 27 at 09:33 AM • permalink
- Or they could have planned on setting up caches, for sustained and dispersed operations. That, or he was keeping 12,000 rounds at his house because the mosque was full…Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 07 27 at 10:19 AM • permalink
- Ladies and gentlemen, we seem to have forgotten the ‘spray and pray’ firing method. Sure a skilled professional soldier may be able to go off to war with less than 200rds. But these morons probably couldnt hit the side of an old falcon from 20 yards. Hence they need lots.
I’d imagine 7.62 russian (x39); because with that much ammo, your will need an automatic to fire it, unless you REALLY underestimate the SAS. Anything auto in 7.62 nato (x51) will be very hard to conceal, hard to come by and almost certainly old.
Of course its illegal to own an auto rifle here, which makes one wonder; Are they that well connected they can get military arms here in OZ, or just plain, old fashioned fucking stupid?
P.S. What/who shoots 7.62×54?
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 10:56 AM • permalink
- Serious question being asked here. Was the ammo seized 7.62mm X 39mm or 7.62mm X 51mm?
Big difference between NATO ammunition and the weapons using it and Soviet/3rd world ammo and those weapons.
Every two bob country in the world is awash with ex Soviet weaponry like AK47’s, RPD’s etc, but the concern level rises a little when our imported jihadis have managed to get their hands on NATO stuff.
Any clues out there?
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 07 27 at 11:15 AM • permalink
- #29, see #22. Almost certainly russian.Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:20 AM • permalink
- The_Wizard_of_WOZ:
Russian-design Dragunov sniper rifles, based on a modified AK action, use rimmed 7.62x54mm in 10-rd clips. Also, I believe some older Commie belt-fed machine guns are chambered for the round.
I was being somewhat facetious earlier. I assumed 7.62 calibre referred to the 7.62x39mm round.
Posted by Spectre765 on 2006 07 27 at 11:25 AM • permalink
- Uh oh. A lot of us are in trouble if 12 rifles and pistols constitutes a masive arsenal.Posted by charles austin on 2006 07 27 at 11:28 AM • permalink
Uh oh. A lot of us are in trouble if 12 rifles and pistols constitutes a masive arsenal.
I was thinking the same. The ammo does seem excessive though.
Hey, Ant, still waiting on that blowback.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 07 27 at 11:44 AM • permalink
- #32, This is Australia, you cant even own a .40 pistol here unless your a ‘metalic target’ shooter.
The dumbest part of all is that you can however own a .357 mag, which is far more powerful. But the bullet coming out the end is smaller than .38”, so it must be safer. Right?
I’ve never laughed so hard at a gun range…
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 12:37 PM • permalink
- In Australia it’s illegal to own:
Crossbows, Blowguns, Slingshots, Night Vision Goggles ??, Bullet Proof Vests, and not last or least, BB guns.
Almost got arrested in Customs once for failing to declare a small $600 custom knife that I was returning for repair. Said it was a weapon. I said my autoloading 30-06 with a 10 shot clip is a weapon, that’s just a knife.
- I know this is Australia, but since our Supreme Court has now decided that foreign standards of behavior trump the plain language of our constitution and legislation, it’s just a matter of time before the lowest common denominator of freedom around the globe gets applied here in the States.Posted by charles austin on 2006 07 27 at 01:54 PM • permalink
- If I come to Oz to live, will I have to leave my boomerang in the US?Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2006 07 27 at 02:04 PM • permalink
- Maybe they liked to practice their shooting a lot.
Me, I have more rifles and pistols than they do, just for myself.
Not as much ammunition, though.
Woz: A .357 is actually the same diameter as a “.38” (.357”). Yes, it’s confusing. But it’s true (and both of them are just barely larger than 9mm/.380 at .355”).
The Wacky World Of Firearms!
- Yeah, they could have been planning caches for a sustained campaign. I just think they’d have wound up dead very early in one, given Australia’s lack of the broadly-distributed sympathizers you need to run sustained guerilla/terror campaigns. It’s possible that they thought they could pull it off, though.
As far as 7.62 x 54 mm, it was adopted by Russia under the Tsars (1890-ish) and remained the standard Russian/Soviet rifle round until after World War II. In addition to the Dragunov, it’s also used for the PKM, the current-production Soviet/Russian GPMG.
Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2006 07 27 at 03:27 PM • permalink
- I’m in the market for a shotgun – personal protection in case of hurricane, y’know. I need one I can use (I’m very short & I have arthritis in my hands & back) – but I don’t think I’ll need anywhere near that amount of ammo!
Ushie, I can’t believe they wouldn’t let me take the slingshot I was planning to get. Sheesh! THAT’s barbaric!
- I was confining myself to rifle calibers, but you’re right Hellbilly. And don’t forget the old .30 Mauser, either.Posted by Spectre765 on 2006 07 27 at 08:35 PM • permalink
- Ten Bob says they’ve got a few SKK and jacked up SKS they didn’t hand in at the buy back. They are naughty boys!
Thus the need for 7.62 x 39.
The bulk requirement comes from them being shithouse shots and prone to shooting up the sky for kicks.
These knobs would be panic mag specialists.
A further ten bob says they could spray a full mag into a crowd of civvies and miss altogether.
I’d love to draw a bead on these stunts as they went out to play jihadi.
Just one round a piece for me thanks.
- Thank God the arms section of the police have something to do.
For years they have harassed God fearing right wing extermists with a few minor weapons (like automatic pistols, cannons and converted Sherman tanks).
Now they have real bad guys to deal with in the Muslims.All the rwdg’s can now resume their normal obsessed leftsytle of waging war at Medieval Fayres, Military Festivals and just bush bashing with the boys in their jeeps and and yarning over a campfire and beer about the last time they were in World War III.
Then there are the bush rednecks. They are neither rwdg or scum bag lefties.They still managed to keep their guns for shooting vermin nws Howard (I took my life in my hands at Easter by going into their native habitat on inncoent bushbashing pleasures only to have to listen to continuous bush music of trailbikes alternating with weapons discharging).
Which is basically why no Muslims dare to leave the innersuburbs of our major capital cities.The rednecks are not far away, not even over the Great Divide, waiting to shoot vermin on sight
- #37 Almost got arrested in Customs once for failing to declare a small $600 custom knife that I was returning for repair. Said it was a weapon. I said my autoloading 30-06 with a 10 shot clip is a weapon, that’s just a knife.
That’s just sad, in a country that gave us Crocodile Dundee and his giant alligator-sticker.
Which is basically why no Muslims dare to leave the innersuburbs of our major capital cities.
Didn’t you guys just have a riot on some beaches not long ago because some Muslims were beating up lifeguards and threatening women for wearing beach wear? Are inner suburbs on the beach in Australia? Just asking.
- Hmmmm.
1.
An average soldier going into combat has 1 mag on the weapon (30 rounds) and maybe 4 more mags in pouches (120 rounds). Total: 150 rounds.
This might be playing to a sterotype but when I was a USMC infantryman I carried a *LOT* more ammo than 150 rounds. I carried 4 mag pouches, 3x 30rd mags each 5.56mm. 3x bandoliers of 5.56mm in stripper clips on my body. And 1x box of 5.56mm in my pack and of course the 1x 30rd mag locked & loaded in the rifle. And that’s when I was just a straight infantryman.
When I played M-60 gunner I carried even more 7.62 ammo than that.
2. So am I alone here in ordering civilian or military surplus ammunition in bulk? I haven’t gone to the range in ages due to ill health but I used to buy ammo in various calibers a few thousand at a time.
Last order I made was for 480rds .45 auto, 2,000+ rds 7.62×54 Russian, 2,000+ rds 5.56mm and 800rds 9mm.
I guess either things are really different down under or I’m far better off living in the USA, with my ammo buying habits, rather than in Australia.
Posted by memomachine on 2006 07 27 at 11:28 PM • permalink
- #40, I know this, thats why .357’s are great, coz u can fire .38’s from them too.
However, please consider the muzzle energy of a .357 with a .40. See what Im getting at?
#51, Thats the way. One shot one kill.
#53, about 80% of our polulation is within 20km of the coast. So even those who dont live near the beach have little trouble in getting there. Unless they come from Alice of course.
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:33 PM • permalink
- Ed, things are REALLY different here. To give you some idea, crossbows are illegal and you need a special license for a .40 or larger caliber pistol. If you still own an auto rifle, the govt basically regards you as a mass murderer waiting to happen, and will come and take it off you if they know about it.
Yet you can own a .357 desert eagle, go figure…
Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 27 at 11:38 PM • permalink
- I would love to have 7500 rds in my safe, it is close to a reasonable quantity when our government would steal the rest of our rifles for a few points of poll ratings and a warm feeling of self-approval.
For those who think the amount relates to the size of an operation, maybe if you have a small paramilitary group, even if you have NO actual operation planned, there is training to consider. Allow say 1-5% of ammo for operations, the rest for training. Jihadis in Australia have hired farms to run firearm training courses and play paintball over the years.
- I’ll agree perfectly, these people have no place in western society, and as fucked as we might htink their society is, we have no place in their society either, and it is us being in their society that produces these Islamofacist extremists… i hope anyone who carries those weapons in our society burns at the stake.
though i will ask anyone posting here to understand that the term terrorist is loosely thrown around and that, infact whilst Extremists do have it coming when they get their ass kicked by the coalition, every ass kicking produces a multitude of terrorists.
If someone threatens violence and you try use your words, generally as most of you would agree, you would get your ass kicked, such is the logic behind the coalition, (again possibly rightfully so) but consider also the flipside of this statement which is that reacting with violence to the threat of (rather than the action of) violence merely causes more sympathy for their cause and creates more terrorists in this case, Is this getting anyone anywhere, and how and when is it going to get us there?
- #51 81Alpha.There’s a lot more than a few SKS and SKK loose.One importer brought in over 400000 of them.Good used models could be purchased for as little as $150,brand new for $400.Ammo for $120/1200.Plenty were sold through gunshops but most were sold at agricultural shows all around the country.Cockies were buying six or more each.They mighn’t be the most accurate rifle ever made but at those prices no one cared.The ammo had a lead projectile with a steel core that didn’t lack penetration,good for pigs in scrub or undergrowth.The Great Bullshit Buyback didn’t recover even 10% of the number of these that came into the country.
- “Baladjam also tried to purchase a further 20,000 rounds of the 7.62 ammunition between July and August last year.”
I live in Nevada, where alcohol tobacco and firearms is not a federal agency, its a convenience store. That kind of purchase would be cause for concern even here.
Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 07 28 at 10:56 PM • permalink
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One thing : 4000 rounds of 7.62mm is far too much for a rifle. My bet is that we haven’t found all the weapons.