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Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 01:02 pm
According to the New York Times:
Azhar Usman, a burly American-born Muslim with a heavy black beard, says he elicits an almost universal reaction when he boards an airplane at any United States airport: conversations stop in midsentence and the look in the eyes of his fellow passengers says, “We’re all going to die!”
I get the same reaction whenever I visit the ABC.
Getting through United States airports and border crossings has grown more difficult for everyone since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. But Muslim Americans say they are having a harder time than most, sometimes facing an intimidating maze of barriers, if not outright discrimination.
English and Australian journalists know the feeling. Get used to living in wartime.
The delays, humiliation and periodic roughing up have prompted some American Muslims to avoid traveling as much as possible.
Same is true—minus the alleged periodic roughing up, which is lamentable—of many non-Muslim Americans.
Many Muslim Americans fault the Department of Homeland Security and its various agencies, chiefly the Transportation Security Administration, as failing to develop an efficient system to screen travelers. In particular, they deplore the lack of a workable means for those on the federal watch list by mistake — or those whose names match that of someone on the list — to get themselves off.
The most efficient system to screen travelers would involve racial profiling. Ain’t gonna happen. By the way, “to get themselves off” shouldn’t have made it past copy editors.
A number of American Muslims similarly upset by how federal agents treated them and their families are seeking relief through the courts. About eight men with Muslim or Arab roots are joining a suit already filed last year by the American Civil Liberties Union …
Eight men. Coming up on five years since 9/11, only eight men are pursuing legal action over travel issues.
The problem has become such a part of being a Muslim American that some comedians have built routines around it.
That’s how the NYT decides when something qualifies as a problem: comedians build a routine around it. Prepare for a 15-part NYT series on airline food.
- Be fair, Tim, at least the NYT editors caught the reference to “Muslim hijacking off” and removed it.Posted by andycanuck on 2006 06 01 at 12:45 PM • permalink
- Let them use their flying carpets.Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 06 01 at 12:49 PM • permalink
- When the clause is “if not outright discrimination,” can I read “not outright discrimination”?Posted by chinesearithmetic on 2006 06 01 at 01:01 PM • permalink
Many Muslim Americans fault the Department of Homeland Security and its various agencies, chiefly the Transportation Security Administration, as failing to develop an efficient system to screen travelers.
Oh really? Well, I fault Muslim Americans for doing jack shit to fight Islamic jihadi terrorism and to help assuage the public’s fear (yes fear!, damn it) of travelling by plane. Why aren’t the Muslim American groups at the forefront of the War Against Terrorism? They have as much at stake—no, more—than the rest of us.
My guess? Sheer incompetence and stupidity on their part, at best. Treason at the worst.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 06 01 at 01:04 PM • permalink
- Conversations stop in midsentence. We are gonna die. That’s the Dexter Lake Club in Animal House.Posted by chinesearithmetic on 2006 06 01 at 01:17 PM • permalink
The delays, humiliation and periodic roughing up have prompted some American Muslims to avoid traveling as much as possible.
When I embarked for my military chartered flight (yes, on a commercial carrier, not a military transport) to the Middle East in December 2004, I had to carry my personal weapon. Indeed, every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine had to carry their personal weapon(s), sans ammunition.
And every one of us had to be searched for “unauthorized items”, as per FAA and TSA regulations. We even got wanded, after we put our weapons to one side. Military personnel on a military chartered flight headed for a combat zone in wartime. Go figure.
So my sympathy for Azhar Usman is non-existant. Live with it, bubba. The rest of America does. And if you don’t like it, give us a reason to take you seriously, beyond playing the victim card. EVERYONE is a victim on this topic.
The problem has become such a part of being a Muslim American that some comedians have built routines around it.
No doubt this trend was started by Rich Hall.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 06 01 at 01:21 PM • permalink
- Oh, for God’s sake. Freaking boo-hoo.
And that “conversation stop in midsentce, we’re all gonna die” bit? This Muslim has it wrong.
What is happening is that all conversations stop in midsentece because everyone is thinking “well, if this guy makes a false move, we’re going to have to kill him and that’s not something I particularly wanted to have to think about during my flight today.”
Posted by NewSisyphus on 2006 06 01 at 01:22 PM • permalink
Oh really? Well, I fault Muslim Americans for doing jack shit to fight Islamic jihadi terrorism and to help assuage the public’s fear (yes fear!, damn it) of travelling by plane. Why aren’t the Muslim American groups at the forefront of the War Against Terrorism? They have as much at stake—no, more—than the rest of us.
This (or something similiar) is the first thing I like to ask those Muslims who complain about people who scrutinize them when they board an airplane now. What are you doing to deal with the cancer found in your own religion? If nothing…well, I’m all out of sympathy. Try back later.
I reject the notion that suspicion of Muslims after the last 10-12 years is the fault of those who are suspicious. Don’t want to be counted in amongst the nutters and headhackers in your religion? Do something about it.
- Profiling makes a security system less secure. Not just racial profiling, or religious profiling, or eye colour profiling, or height profiling – any profiling causes the system to be less secure against a reasonably well resourced attacker.
It means you can probe the system with trial runs and determine the profiling characteristics and end up with operatives who have less chance of being detected than if the screening was purely random.
If your opponents have few resources and an inability to defeat the profile then profiling might work – but there’s evidence that that isn’t the case with Islamic terrorists – 9/11 indicates they have recources and the ability to spend considerable effort planning and setting things up. John Walker Lindh indicates they will be able to find people to defeat obvious profiles.
Putting more security on individuals in an observable and predictable manner means there are fewer security resources on the other individuals – and those working against the security can attack the weak side due to the predictable nature of the resource allocation.
- Paco, well, you started it off beautifully in #1. Spit Pepsi all over everything. (Someone ought to invent something to stop this kind of mess.)
Then everyone stepped up and said what I was thinking – especially you, wronwright. I had more sympathy with American Muslims on 9-12-2001 than I do today. Now I view them all with suspicion first, then watch for evidence that I’m wrong (the complete reverse of how I used to see every individual I met). It has even become hard to take such evidence at face value, since I know that their most fundamental way of thinking allows them to lie, indeed, requires them to lie under certain circumstances. One such circumstance is when talking to an unbeliever. They’ve put themselves in a Catch 22, not I.
Only someone completely irrational would expect a person to ignore the facts and the context which contain them. I’m just stunned sometimes to see that there is so much irrationality, and that it takes the form of insisting that I shut down my mind. I can’t tell you how much I resent being made to feel this way.
And of course, the eight men blame the government. Who else has the money, though I’m sure they’d say it’s the principle of the thing.
- Thanks for the laugh, paco.
I’ve taken exactly three airplane trips since 9/11, and I was stopped and searched while boarding two of them. Me, an aging woman about as Anglo-Saxon looking as they come. When that stops happening to me, I’ll start worrying about the poor (might I say overly-sensitive) Muslim passengers.
Besides, #9 has a pretty good take on it.
- Many Muslim Americans fault the Department of Homeland Security and its various agencies, chiefly the Transportation Security Administration, as failing to develop an efficient system to screen travelers.
Allrighty then, someone at the DHS should give El Al a call and get some pointers/ideas. I’m sure many of those “Muslim Americans” will be thrilled when they hear that.
Posted by Bashir Gemayel on 2006 06 01 at 02:49 PM • permalink
- El Al’s system is the benchmark it’s as good as anyone’s managed. Good luck with that in America though – with as many passengers as El Al has in a year every couple of days.
Full screening of all baggage and all passengers plus having the planes under guard at all times (none of that letting minimum wage workers have unsupervised access to the planes as they sit on the tarmac… The US air system would grind to a halt about 10 minutes after introducing such a system.
- Religious profiling anecdote.
Just this week, I flew home from Chicago. A dishevelled looking goof dressed all in black with sunglasses and a Satanic Pentagram necklace walked on and sat in the seat next to the emergency exit. The steward promptly walked over, told (didn’t ask) the guy to move and got a normal looking guy to move into the seat.
The entire cabin breathed a sigh of relief.
The delays, humiliation and periodic roughing up have prompted some American Muslims to avoid traveling as much as possible.
Gee, what a coincidence – I avoid traveling as much as possible because some Muslims hijacked some airplanes and made air travel an even bigger pain in the ass. Cry me a fuckin’ river that we’re both swimming in, Abdul.
- My Dad was just on a business trip and was pulled aside for a more, ahem, intensive search. Now my dad is a teddy bear of a guy, as mild mannered as they come, but he’s 6’5” and can be intimidating if you don’t know him. Did we all get a good laugh over mild mannered tech writer being considered a security risk? Yes. Did we know why they did it? Yes. It’s discrimination against tall men!!! Call the ACLU. feh.
- Sam, using profiling exclusively can, indeed, be counterproductive. However, discounting its efficacy completely shoots well beyond counterproductive and into the category of downright stupid. Just because there are poisonous spiders as well as poisonous snakes doesn’t mean you should go around picking up any snake you meet. (damn but those double-entendres are everywhere today)
As long as Muslims continue to proudly and publically commit acts of vicious barbarity, anybody who so much as resembles one is going to come under increased scrutiny. If you look like a threat, expect to get treated as one. Just ask a biker. Sucks, but there it is.
- Big Mo should read the article in the Wall St. Journal online last year about 13 guys traveling on Syrian passports. A WSJ reporter was onboard, watching and recording. The guys said they were musicians. Friendly in the airport, snarling mean on the plane. Everyone was scared to death.
One by one, they went to the loo, each taking a long time. Turns out they were assembling pieces of a cell phone, which as you know can detonate bombs.
And Big Mo wants to know why he’s being singled out? Fuck him.Posted by Gary from Jersey on 2006 06 01 at 04:08 PM • permalink
- The problem has become such a part of being a Muslim American that some comedians have built routines around it.
The problem starts with being a Muslim-American rather than an American.
An even better diagnosis, though, is that the hassle experience is sought out to contribute to the identity of Muslim American.
The only cloud on the psychological horizon is that if you sue, you get Jewish jokes.
- #19,
Profiling reduces overall security – assuming your opponent is intelligent and resourceful.
A terrorist group sends a large number of it’s members to try out the security and since profiling is in place some of their members will be sent through the “extra security” line often, however assuming some diversity amongst their members some of them won’t. The problem with profiling is that they can (by this try it lots of times and see approach) find out who doesn’t fit the profile for whatever reason – that terrorist is subject to less security than they would be if profiling was not in place.
That’s the key concept. Yes profiling does mean (assuming the profiling is accurate – ie people who fit the profile do have an increased rate of being offenders) the bad guys are more likely to be scrutinised overall. However, it means that *some* bad guys will be scrutinised less than they would be without profiling. And that, and this is the bit that matters, the bad guys can find out who those bad guys are.
Profiling is effective in some situations, if you want catch the largest number of ticketless train travellers you will be better of focusing your efforts on those who fit a profile (again assuming your profiling is accurate).
Air travel security is not one of those situations. Mainly because you have an intelligent (in the sense of planning and so on) opponent who is well resourced and patient. Plus you don’t win the game just because you increase the number of actual terorists you apply your “extra security” too (which in the train travel case you do – you just care about maximizing your numbers).
If you were running a cell of 20 terorists which situtation would you prefer:
1. Everytime any of your members fly they have a 20% chance of going through the high security line.
2. Everytime 17 of your members fly they have a 100% chance of going through the high security line. However, the remaining three members only have a 1% chance of going through the high security line.
3. Everytime any of your members fly they have a 100% of going through the high security line.
Case 1 is standard random selection, Case 2 is profiling, Case 3 is El Al…
- Sam, why don’t you ask El Al if they profile. That’ll settle the question.Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 06 01 at 05:52 PM • permalink
- Sam – I see where you’re going, but why does your premise require “…that *some* bad guys will be scrutinised less than they would be without profiling”? Profiling and random selection are not mutually exclusive. If we did both, using your numbers, we’d have the following:
==> Everytime 17 of members fly they have a 100% of going thru high security (super-accurate profiling), AND the remaining three have a 20% chance of going through the high security line (Random selection).
I know that’s what I’d like to see.
- Sam, why don’t you ask El Al if they profile. That’ll settle the question.
Rob, comparing El Al (or Ben-Gurion security, in general) to DHS idiocy is an apples and oranges thing. They do profile, sure, but that’s the least of what they do differently from having a bunch of semi-literate egomaniacs yelling at you to take your shoes off. Even if profiling is a gain, all things being equal, it’s a pointless place to start trying to change the US system.
- I work with some highly paid and very highly educated Muslims from all over the world. A varied mix of the secular and the very religious.
On the one hand they profess to love living in America – much more conservative than Europe – and have never once mentioned discrimination. They’ll actually all agree that American red tape is much easier to get thru than the red tape of other countries, and the functionaries are much more helpful (and don’t require bribes).
On the other – they’ll do nothing to help in the war on terror, argue that there are no Muslim terrorists that haven’t been created by George Bush, endlessly repeat conspiracy theories (the latest being George sent a robot plane into the Pentagon), and absolutely refuse to admit that the head choppers in the ME are representative of Islam. There is not such thing as Radical Islam in their view.
If this group of educated half-Americanized Muslims can’t admit that we’re at war with Radical Islam, there is absolutly no freakin’ hope that the average Haji in the street will ever see America as anything but an oppressive enemy.
Be prepared for a long war. It’s only going to get worse until we have the guts to beat them back into the desert like needs to be done every couple of hundred years.
- #18 Taleena – you’re on to something there. I’m 6’2” and last time I was in the US a pipsqueak customs guy made a beeline to me and called me back for a search. I was sitting on the floor with my shoes off and feet in the air, “What are you looking for?” I asked. He didn’t answer and I knew better than to pursue the question.
At the time I was thinking, “short guy syndrome – he wants revenge”. He should just relax, we 6 footers do our suffering aplenty in cattle class.
- #27
No. You have limited resources if you do profiling you are allocating resources to those that fit the profile – which means there are less resources for those who don’t. The cost of the profiling is less security on those who don’t fit the profile. In lots of cases that’s perfectly fine – in this particular case it’s not, it reduces the security you get for a given resource level.
#29,
El Al doesn’t profile in the way it is meant when refering to the US. They track nationalities, flight histories, criminal backgrounds, etc. However, *every* passenger goes through the well designed security questioning. All baggage goes through the security system. Arabs get the longer interviews – but that profiling works because the rest of the security is so tight and the threat level so high. Getting a non-Arab to do the leg work doesn’t give the pay off that it would against the US system. There’s a reason El Al so distrusts US securoty that they do their own luggage screening.If America had security anywhere near the levels of El Al then profiling would be a reasonable way to allocate the additional resources – but in the US the normal security is so crap that profiling would just make the normal level even more useless. It’s the potential to go through the higher level security that makes the US system vaguely better than nothing – profiling makes it trivial to avoid that.
- Sam has pretty much convinced me.Posted by daddy dave on 2006 06 01 at 09:09 PM • permalink
Getting through United States airports and border crossings has grown more difficult for everyone since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. But Muslim Americans say they are having a harder time than most, sometimes facing an intimidating maze of barriers, if not outright discrimination.
Um…they do know that there was this whole thing with 19 guys and planes and stuff, yeah? Sorry you’re having a hard time…we can find 3000 or so families that would love to discuss your hurt feelings with you, I’m sure.
- A Syrian agent once tried to trick a young pregnant Irish girl into carrying a bomb on to an El Al flight. She thought she was going to Israel to marry him.
Arab suicide-murder bombers have used young women, children, the simple-minded, people dressed in Israeli army uniforms or wearing jeans, t-shirts and yamulkes and as orthodox Jews. They have used people carrying genuine humanitarian travel papers seeking specialist medical treatment. They even used a donkey once. Much to the outrage of PETA.
That’s how the NYT decides when something qualifies as a problem: comedians build a routine around it. Prepare for a 15-part NYT series on airline food.
Not to mention my wife.
The bastards.
Posted by TheRealBigAl on 2006 06 01 at 09:25 PM • permalink
- I must say I get the impression that Muslims, at least those of Arab extraction, seem to have adjusted remarkably well to our Victim Is King culture. Other immigrants foolishly try to impress by being hardworking and humble, and it takes them a couple of generations to get be able to whine for the cameras. But Muslims seem to be perfect at it from the get-go.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 06 01 at 09:27 PM • permalink
- Comedy routines – just like the Christains, Catholics, Mormons, Hindus and Jews suffer thru?Posted by perfectsense on 2006 06 01 at 09:31 PM • permalink
- Something often forgotten in today’s PC environment is that there’s only 2 sides in a war. There’s the us and the them. What side a body is on depends from which side of the firing line that body is sighted.
Those that are stupid, feeble, cowardly or dumbass enough to believe they can inhabit some mythical “middle” are actually on the them side of the divide no matter where viewed from and are therefore fair game to any and all.
Straddling fences only encourages both sides to grab a leg and rip it off.
- If there are any Muslim victims they are victims of themselves.
I am incensed by the attitude that they are being ‘picked on’ because they are targeted for extra attention; or any criticism. Who have the people who have strapped on bombs and flown planes into buildings and bombed planes and trains identified themselves as?
And as mentioned before by Salty in 12:
Then everyone stepped up and said what I was thinking – especially you, wronwright. I had more sympathy with American Muslims on 9-12-2001 than I do today. Now I view them all with suspicion first, then watch for evidence that I’m wrong (the complete reverse of how I used to see every individual I met). It has even become hard to take such evidence at face value, since I know that their most fundamental way of thinking allows them to lie, indeed, requires them to lie under certain circumstances. One such circumstance is when talking to an unbeliever. They’ve put themselves in a Catch 22, not I.
I feel the same way, Salty. I used to be able to accept that there were bad people, that they weren’t all tarred with the same brush. Muslim protestations of victimisation are a huge stretch of the imagination. If it was people identifying themselves as Buddhists or Baptists or Amish or Quakers performing terrorist acts these people would also be focused on, and they would probably be ostracised and criticised and rejected and ejected by their own. But they don’t do these things.
Muslims strike me as being pretty stupid. You have to be clever to be a good liar, to cover your lies, to remember previous lies so as not to give yourself away. There’s no condemnation of evil acts, just denial.
Osama’s a good bloke. We didn’t see him do anything wrong. The 19 men who hijacked the planes on September 11 didn’t do it. There is no proof (
what the hellhow much proof do they need?)./rant off
If it was people identifying themselves as Buddhists or Baptists or Amish or Quakers performing terrorist acts these people would also be focused on, and they would probably be ostracised and criticised and rejected and ejected by their own. But they don’t do these things.
I meant to add after that:
and Muslims don’t ostracise, criticise, reject and eject murderous, warped, voilent, dangerous members. They just say they are young and misunderstood.
Or they were quoted out of context.
- Dan
Great stuff
Yes indeed.
The email I sent Ahmadinejad at http://www.president.ir/eng/, said basically what this skit did…You should take a real close look at before and after pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Haven’t received a reply, yet….:).
- Let’s see if this one works http://www.president.ir/
- If my religion and culture was being defiled by people anything like these blood-dripping vultures, then you could bet the house I wouldn’t be staying quiet, issuing denials and making up excuses.
And I wouldn’t be asking for help to sort the mongrels out once and for all, either. I wouldn’t need it.
- Muslims are a pack of whiners- see how they managed to lose 5 wars with Israel- a tiny miserable little state. Despite having billions of dollars of weapons, all those Muslim nations totally failed to wipe Israel out. All they can resort to doing now- is blowing up kindergardens, school buses, and cafes. What a bunch of utter fricking losers.Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 06 01 at 10:49 PM • permalink
- An Australian couple in Bali saw a nervous young man with a heavy backpack walking up to their table.
She just had time to say
“I don’t like the look of..” and they were blown up in a fire storm, but lived to tell their tale, unlike others next to them.I guess they are just ‘prejudiced youth profilers’ now.
- well the need to treat all people warm and fuzzily just doesn’t really cut it when the authorities have to rock up at the door of a loved one who has lost a family member(s), and wants an explanation of “how this could happen”???… “again”!!!!
if the 9/11 commission said above all, the inability to stop the attacks on the WTC was a failure of imagination, that terrorists would do such a thing, it doesn’t take einstein to figure out you need to thoroughly screen personages of a certain background, and perhaps even give more than a cursory glance to people of a peaceful religion to ensure hundreds of people and billions of dollars aren’t lost again…
regardless of a few hurt feelings…
- Well, how DO you tell the good Muslims from the killer Muslims?
Ask them nicely? Make ‘em eat a porkchop before boarding?
Y’know, during World War II, ALL Germans were forbidden from traveling around America, not just the Nazi ones.
I’m cool with declaring war against Islam and not letting any of them travel, period.
Islam declared war on me. Seems only fair to cooperate.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 06 01 at 11:30 PM • permalink
- “some comedians have built routines around it.”
If they mean Muslim comedians, first off there are only about two with a following bigger than their family—and they both happen to be American. Second, it’s not surprising that they’d build routines around airport searches, given the side-splittingly goofy ideasthey usually build routines around:
“The media says the most ridiculous things about Islam. They’ll bring on
some self-styled ‘expert on Middle Eastern terrorism’ and he’s like, ‘Izlam
is a religion of violence, it’s a religion of terror … and it was spread by the
sword. That’s right! Izlam was spread by the sword!’
What is that supposed to mean anyway!?
Maybe if ‘Islam’ was a synonym for cream cheese?
CUSTOMER: Yeah, hi. I’d like a bagel please.
CLERK: Would you like that toasted?
CUSTOMER: Yes, please.
CLERK: Would you like some Islam on that? I can spread it with my sword!OR this, from November 2001:
“NEW YORK (AP) – In NASDAQ trading today, yet another household name successfully completed its initial public offering, this time in the small but growing terror industry. The Al-Qaida Terror Networks, Inc. (NASDAQ: TRRR), a Delaware corporation, filed its S-1 registration statement in the first quarter of 2000…Al-Qaida seriously contemplated pulling its IPO, said Mr. Osama bin Laden, founding CEO and Chairman of the multinational holding company….But since the September 11 attacks on the United States, ‘Al-Qaida’ has become a household name, and our Board of Directors felt it was the right time to exploit our growing brand recognition by selling stock to the American public.”
Oh, HO HO HO HO.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 06 02 at 03:00 AM • permalink
- Sam – Profiling makes a security system less secure
Well-argued point. Press articles in recent months have mentioned terrorists recruiting (or attempting to recruit) non-Arabs for terror missions. Asians and Philippinos are favoured, it seems, as they are less likely to be selected out for screening.
…and the look in the eyes of his fellow passengers says, “We’re all going to die!”
In 1995, sitting on a peak hour Eltham line train to the city, a burly, black-stubbled Arab with a rucksack got on and sat on the bench opposite. He was talking to himself, had his eyes closed, fingering worry-beads, and reading from a book with Arabic script. I changed two carriages up the train at the next station. Nothing happened, of course, but Arabs mumbling to themselves instead of reading the Herald-Sun sends a cold shiver down one’s spine.
Posted by walterplinge on 2006 06 02 at 04:31 AM • permalink
- A few years back I was escorting a chap from Australia to Dubai. We had done many such escorts before and the various airlines knew our routine.
However on this day they decided we (the federaly mandated gaurds) couldnt take our handcuffs with us.
So the only restraints we had to prevent any trouble from the chaps being removed from Australia (usualy rejected on security or visa grounds) were taken from us.
A quick whip around among the other officers at the airport produced a few sets of velcro restraints and we went ahead with the escort.
Im all for security but making it stupidly non discriminatory is counterproductivePosted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 06 02 at 06:03 AM • permalink
The most efficient system to screen travelers would involve racial profiling.
I think what you meant to say is the most efficient system would be to ban non-whites from flying. Screening people for simply more security checks based on race would be less efficient, not more.
You know it’s not actually painful to read about the successes and failures of profiling and trends in terrorism if you want to find out things so you can write about them.
That’s only if the idea for screening is for security reasons rather than efficient profiling though.
I think what you meant to say is the most efficient system would be to ban non-whites from flying. Screening people for simply more security checks based on race would be less efficient, not more.
I think you meant to open your mouth and spew shit, Tank.
Waitaminute, what am I saying? You did spew shit.
Hardly surprising, though. Tank has been working his/her way up (down?) from making snide remarks to building strawman arguments for some time now.
I patiently await further developments in the unfolding non-drama of “Tank: A Young Troll In The Blogosphere”.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 06 02 at 11:33 AM • permalink
- I don’t know what a Muslim looks like?
Indonesians don’t look much like Somalis don’t look much like Moroccans.
What all the posts probably mean is ‘Arab looking,’ although I don’t know what Arabs look like, either.
I’m all for profiling but not for racial profiling.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 06 02 at 12:39 PM • permalink
- After 9/11 I was one of the “you have to make a distinction between Wahabbists/jihadists and mainstream Muslims” crowd. I would always jump in to slap down people who ragged on Islam and Muslims in general.
After five years of hearing from Muslims about how “fearful” and “persecuted” they feel (despite no concrete incidents against them to justify those feelings) while hearing nothing from them – zero, zip, zilch, nada – about the evils of the jihadis, I’ve given up. What they don’t say is speaking volumes.
There were plenty of demonstrations in support of Muslims after 9/11 all across this country. I’ve never heard of a single demonstration by American Muslims in support of the US since then. None.
They’re doing a fine job of alienating everyone around them. But of course, it’s not their fault. We’re a bunch of rednecks.
I’ve never heard of a single demonstration by American Muslims in support of the US since then. None.
There was a demonstration of Muslims against terrorism a year or so back. About six people showed up.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 06 02 at 03:58 PM • permalink
- Having an artificial knee guarantees I’ll get a body cavity search each and every time I check in for a flight. I guess it’s time I declare the TSA is racist. They’re targeting and profiling me for being Whitey with a metal knee. I smell a lawsuit.Posted by swassociates on 2006 06 02 at 05:19 PM • permalink
- O/T, Flemming Rose, the Editor of Jyllands-Posten – ie the guy who originally published the Danish cartoons- speaks his mind in this recent article. Here’s one quote from the article (from many… too many good ones to paste here)
By treating a Muslim figure the same way I would a Christian or Jewish icon, I was sending an important message: You are not strangers, you are here to stay, and we accept you as an integrated part of our life. And we will satirize you…
Posted by daddy dave on 2006 06 02 at 05:28 PM • permalink
- Since my half deaf elderly husband always gets searched, why should they complain?
As for Homeland security: an LA Times story about six weeks ago about a Jordanian Suicide bomber who killed 100 people in Baghdad mentioned near the end of the article praising him that he was prevented from “reentering” the US by a lowly immigration official in Chicago..Seems his story was fishy, so she sent him back.
So 100 Iraqis died instead of 100 Angelinos…And there are enough anecdotes in the medical literature about people being stopped after heart scans or I131 treatment of thyroid cancer at airports to think that maybe a lot of stuff is being done but not reported…
Since the press is anti Bush, one cannot attribute this to patriotism, so it must be lazyness.
I think you meant to open your mouth and spew shit, Tank. Waitaminute, what am I saying? You did spew shit.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 06 02 at 11:33 AMGee wow. Yet another comment here saying I’m talking shit but without the courage to even attempt to suggest how. Way to distinguish yourself pal.
I don’t know what a Muslim looks like?
Indonesians don’t look much like Somalis don’t look much like Moroccans. What all the posts probably mean is ‘Arab looking,’ although I don’t know what Arabs look like, either. I’m all for profiling but not for racial profiling.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 06 02 at 12:39 PMHey one guy gets it.
Bit disappointing he’s in the minority for people posting to an Australian forum. You know, the country situated next door to the world’s largest muslim nation. Which in turn forms part of a region where al Qaeda trained operatives have remained unmolested since their Afghanistan training up to 2001. Where the largest attacks on airliners ever conceived were planned. Where more people have been killed in terrorist attacks in the last 5 years than anywhere else outside of the two current war zones.So add pretty much everyone of South East Asian appearance to that racial profiling “short” list. al Qaeda has declared their intentions to make Africa the next front so there’s another race to keep an eye on. The Mediterraneans have already made appearances in bombings of Iraq coalition members since so add them to the list. There’s active al Qaeda training and recruiting in the ‘Stans and nobody can tell them apart so most of central Asia’s down for this. South Asia gives the Middle East a run for it’s money in terms of terrorist attacks per day so they get a ticket. Just this week Florida has reminded us that Cuba is still such a terrorist hotbed that its prohibited to travel there so add them and most of Central America that looks like them. Oh and lets not forget everyone of Middle Eastern appearance included by default.
So there’s your racial profile. Yeah that’ll speed things up.
- @ swassociates on 2006 06 02 at 05:19 PM •
@ tioedong on 2006 06 02 at 06:32 PM •If you believe US airport screening inconveniences you more than it inconveniences others you may want to look into some of the pre-screening shortcuts if you travel often.
http://www.schneier.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Terms=“pre-screening”&Realm=blogThe thing about focussing on the appearance of tough security rather than providing sensible security measures which have been shown to work, is that these loopholes exist for regular citizens in the same way they work for terrorists. You can simply choose to take advantage of the same dollar-related preferential treatment that smart terrorists already have (in the case of 9/11) and will in future.
Press articles in recent months have mentioned terrorists recruiting (or attempting to recruit) non-Arabs for terror missions. Asians and Philippinos are favoured, it seems, as they are less likely to be selected out for screening.
The key to effective profiling, is not to look only for ‘Men of Middle Eastern Appearance’ and appreciate that Muslims come in all shapes and sizes.
However, man, woman, white, black, swarthy or Swedish, Islam does seem to be a common denominator and to ignore this outright is just stupid.
- #82,
Because all Muslims have “I am a Muslim” tattooed on their foreheads. Especially those who are trying to avoid being detected when they know that Muslims get put on the high security line.
Why not just make the profile “terrorist”. Bingo bango it’s 100% effective. Terrorists also tattoo that fact on their foreheads, right?
- I’m not on your side, tank.
If I were making the decisions, nobody with Muslim affiliations would be flying at all, or working or living in the US. Not till he ate that porkchop.
If that were the standard, then maybe we’d see more of those demonstrations that Dave S. has been yearning for.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 06 03 at 02:43 PM • permalink
I’m not on your side, tank.
Why the hell not ?
My ‘side’ is that group of people who know that a finite amount of money and resources can be dedicated to domestic security measures and therefor want it directed to programs which have been shown to work over decades, are not defeated by simple adaptations, or work regardless of the type of threat (carrying a bomb sweat looks the same as carrying heroin sweat) rather than those which will appear to work but have no realistic expectation of doing so.If you’re committed to not being on my side buy yourself one of these conspiracy theorist videos that suggests there is no terrorist threat and everything so far has been photoshopped. Then it won’t matter what type of security measures are adopted.
If I were making the decisions, nobody with Muslim affiliations would be flying at all, or working or living in the US. Not till he ate that porkchop.
If that were the standard….
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 06 03 at 02:43 PM • permalinkIf that were the standard it wouldn’t have stopped the 9/11 hijackers.
Stop, go back and read the previous paragraph again and do not read any further until you understand the gravity of that. We are talking about profiling methods on a range from stupid to smart as a way to avert a terrorist scenario involving airplanes.
Using ridiculous pre-conceptions about identifying people based on religion you wouldn’t have been able to prevent the mother of all worst case scenarios. 9/11 would have happened exactly as it did using your idea. I don’t have to explain what end of the scale your idea is at.
Read this, note the list of organisations, then read up some more at the Rotten.com link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TakfiriThis isn’t one of those times where the guy you disagree with pulls some obscure reference out of his arse as a counter arguement. I’m describing al Qaeda and what was a crucial element of their 9/11 plan. They defeated this type of profiling before you thought about it. Before you were born in fact.
What you are describing in 2006 is no different than saying guns should be kept off airplanes but boxcutters should be okay.
- #85
The problem is the goal isn’t to stop the 9/11 boys – they’re all dead after all…
The goal is to stop other terrorists from doing something inolving planes again.
Profiling makes the job of the terrorist easier because they can arrange to miss the profile and hence take the less secure line – with a higher chance than with random selection.
Sure the vast majority of such terrorists are Arabs. The problem is not all of them are – and that non-Arab group will have an easier time of blowing stuff up with profiling in place.
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Well, hell yeah! If somebody looking like Bluto were to get on my airplane, I’d be breaking out the spinach, too.