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Last updated on March 6th, 2018 at 12:31 am
Sheik Hilali rocks out:
While the rest of the country expressed outrage at his comments, Taj Din al-Hilali enjoyed rock star status when he arrived at Lakemba Mosque yesterday.
He was smiling when he exited Sydney’s now infamous mosque, clearly buoyed by the backing he had received inside, where 5000 worshippers shouted their support during the midday service.
He was surrounded by more than 200 fervent supporters as he made his way to a waiting car.
Asked if he would resign, he said: “After we clean the world of the White House.”
Actually, that last quote has been tidied up. As J.F. Beck emailed, and television coverage proves, the Sheik actually said:
When asked whether he would resign he replied, “after they clean the world from the White House first”.
I’m on your side, Meatman. The sooner the White House cleans the world, the better. Meanwhile, you’ve read the sermon—now buy the t-shirt! Send a few to Lakemba mosque, where Hilalians yesterday heard their main imam deliver this speech:
Let me clearly state for the record, for the history, that rape in our religion, in our Islamic law, Islamic sharia, is considered a crime whose punishment is execution.
Yes—for the victims. Keysar Trad, weary of his usual “out of context” routine, now kicks it up a notch:
Sheik Hilaly’s spokesman, Keysar Trad, did not dispute the content of the translation yesterday, saying he had not heard the tape properly, but he offered a new defence.
He likened the quoting of Rafii to Pope Benedict’s recent citing of a Byzantine religious scholar who said that Islam had been spread by the sword.
Does that therefore justify non-Muslims attacking mosques and shooting Hilali’s followers, as happened post the Pope’s speech? Just askin’! It’d be interesting to hear Trad’s defence of this Hilali remark, from 1982:
The two cheapest things in Australia are the flesh of a woman and the meat of a pig.
Come a long way in 24 years, hasn’t he? From pigs to cats. Publication of those 1982 comments in a Lebanese Christian newspaper led to the incineration of the paper’s printing press. Manny C. caught an interview yesterday on 2GB with Tom Zrika, chair of the Lebanese Muslim Association (LMA), from which he reports the following:
1. The LMA has NOT, contrary to media reports, given the Mufti several months off from preaching sermons. Instead, in the words of the LMA, he has been given a three month holiday;
2. The LMA will not proceed with further action against the Mufti as a significant proportion of the board support him;
3. Zrika admitted that the Mufti has a sizeable and vocal following ;
4. The LMA does not want to do anything concrete in response to the Mufti’s sermon because it would tear the fabric of the community; and
5. Sydney Radio 2ME conducted an on-air survey in which a majority of Lebanese Muslims supported the Mufti’s comments …
Hit Manny’s site for links in the above-quoted chunk. Hilali’s comments are now available in expanded form thanks to a more comprehensive translation from The Australian:
[The man] is the one who has to pay the rent, he is responsible for the alimony, he is responsible for feeding his children. Maybe circumstances forced him and Satan tempted him, and there is a woman like hell behind him; she never has enough. She wants to change the furniture, change the lounge every year. And behind every man who is a thief, a greedy woman. She is pushing him. Not our women in Australia, the women of Canada. The hall up there is full. They are the women of Canada and Mexico, the ones who encourage their men – to do what? Go! Get me! And no matter how much he brings her, she wants more.
She wants to change the car, and change … Of course, the woman keeps demanding from her husband more than his ability. Either she will tell him to go and deal in drugs, or to go and steal. What’s more than that? Spend as much as you have! You know your husband, upside down! If you demand from your husband more than his ability, then what does that mean? Who is the one who would have to become a mafia? A gangster? And steal cars? And smash banks? And deal in the “blue disease” (drugs)? Who is the one who commits these crimes of stealing? Who? The man or the woman? It’s the man.
Sometimes it seems as though this religion isn’t exactly female-friendly. Or even human-friendly, as Caroline Overington writes:
When you cut the colour out of the mufti’s speech – when you drop the references to cats, to uncovered meat, and even to Satan – his message doesn’t become more palatable, it is horrific.
The Age’s Michelle Grattan is just as damning:
Hilali’s apologies mean nothing, nor do claims from his family and supporters that his words were misunderstood or taken out of context. Their general direction was devastatingly clear, and yesterday he added some political provocation to make things worse.
Still, the rockin’ Sheik has supporters beyond those chanting in Lakemba:
The chairman of the British Muslim Council of Great Britain, Imam Abdul Jalil Sajid, today said it appeared to him that the comments had been …
Taken Out of Context™. Imam Abdul owes royalties to Keysar Trad.
“I know that he is one of the greatest Muslim scholars on Earth and Australia is blessed with him, and I know he went to Iraq to get released an Australian national [Douglas Wood] from the clutches of a heinous regime at the time,” Dr Sajid told the Nine Network’s Today program.
“We have to appreciate and give him the credit with the result [Mr Wood’s release] but I agree and take your point that he must communicate better.”
Sheik Hilali did not secure the release of Douglas Wood. Imam Abdul should communicate better. Among blog and non-blog reactions to Hilali’s speechifying:
* “Here’s what I want to know,” asks Pavlov’s Cat. “If the women are the meat and the men are the cats, then who are these cat-owners and neighbours? Is there some sinister extra dimension to this little fairytale that I’m not picking up? Or is it just incoherent as well as repulsive?”
* Angry Asian Female is angry.
* Sultan Knish shreds Hilali’s claim that he was refering to adultery rather than rape.
* And, in the Age, Melbourne’s Fatima Abdullatif sends an open letter:
Dear Sheikh Hilali. As a young Muslim woman, I have had to deal with the ubiquitous news reports that misquote Islam. I avoid trying to “make people understand” because I find reassurance in the belief that negative comments come from those who do not understand Islam.
However, I am deeply angered by your views, on one level because they are out of touch with even the most Neanderthal society; on another because they come from a man holding a high position. How sad that you used your platform to preach these ideas. How useless that you hid behind the Arabic language and used a translator to give a different meaning to your words. Those who speak Arabic cringed at this disgusting ploy.
Muslims face enough discrimination and misunderstanding. They need positive role models. You are not such a leader, and must resign immediately.
What she said. Previous Hilali posts here, here, here, and here.
- He’s sort of right, actually, about men getting sent on quests. If the woman is not a nag, however, she shows him she’s satisfied with him from time to time. That’s enough to keep him happy. He likes quests under those circumstances.
Often, it turns out otherwise, and you get a country music song out of it. (“I don’t think I’ll get married again. I’ll just find some woman I don’t like particularly well and buy her a house.’’)
Either way, it’s one of life’s pleasures.
There’s the rub for Islam. Life has the wrong focus, once you turn your attention to your family life.
Who knows what you might do next.
- The whole issue behind the Sheik’s statements is that they are not aberrant, or an exception, or misunderstood. This represents today’s average male Muslim’s thinking on women. It is totally counter to the West’s values and cannot be reconciled.
I say take the list of the 5000 Muslims who attended the Mosque sermon and allow that to be a good start for deporting Muslims to the land of their origin. Then they can be among others with similar thoughts and ideas. And then everybody can be happy.
By the way, they can leave their women. They’d probably be happier without their masters. The Aussie men can handle it from there.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 10 27 at 05:28 PM • permalink
He’s sort of right, actually, about men getting sent on quests.
I’ve always believed this. Women have knowledge of life that men can never know, and men need to pass tests in life that women don’t understand.
I always defer to that secret knowledge when my wife allows me to see it, and she lets me do what she thinks is foolish now and then. It’s a recipe for marriage that’s worked for us.
- Regarding the comments about the woman being responsible for nagging him into rape, theft, drug, yadda yadda….
Why on earth doesn’t he just smack her down to shut her up?
It’s all in the quran, and since, as the sheikh says, the man is supposed to be in charge, he should just tell her to shut up.
I know domestic violence is illegal, but all the perpetrator has to do is bleat on about cultural differences and he’ll get a free pass.
Why doesn’t the sheikh remind women that they should stop nagging, stay inside wrapped in a curtain or they’ll cop a serve?
That should work.
/sarc off
On a song-related note, I’ve got Niqab Holiday by 10CC’s of Pig’s Blood. Going through my head.
*sings*
I don’t like burkhas, oh no,
I love them, hey!And now I’ve also got Aerosmith to deal with.
Thanks, Tim.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 27 at 05:49 PM • permalink
…rape in our religion, in our Islamic law, Islamic sharia, is considered a crime whose punishment is execution.
The good Imam forgot to mention the standard of proof for rape or adultery in Shari’a: four adult male muslim eyewitnesses.
Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2006 10 27 at 05:50 PM • permalink
- This morning’s Canberra Times has a letter expressing disgust at the outpouring of hatred for Shiek Wasname merely for stating the obvious. You can guess who the letter is from, he’s a clergyman who lives in Rivett (I notice he now calls himself Dr and well as Rev)
Can’t do a link to the letter, the poor old Times’ web site doesn’t run to that level of sophistication.
Presumable the Rev has emailed every other paper in Australia, so it will be interesting to see if anyone else prints it. The Times seems to be a sucker for nutters in its letters column and I understand this is because it doesn’t actually get many letters from ordinary punters. I guess it what happens when your circulation has dropped nine per cent in the last four years.
Posted by Consuela Potez on 2006 10 27 at 06:05 PM • permalink
- The leader of the New South Wales Liberal party has called on the state government to stop any taxpayer funding of this mosque. Any muslim organisation that supports this uncivilised way of thinking should be shut out of any government funding. Remember their are good proportion of females paying taxes to support these feckless fucks.
However, I am deeply angered by your views, on one level because they are out of touch with even the most Neanderthal society; on another because they come from a man holding a high position. How sad that you used your platform to preach these ideas. How useless that you hid behind the Arabic language and used a translator to give a different meaning to your words. Those who speak Arabic cringed at this disgusting ploy.
Muslims face enough discrimination and misunderstanding. They need positive role models. You are not such a leader, and must resign immediately.
Fatima Abdullatif, sure, sure, sure.
What is her screen nic, on this blog?
- I’m thinking my idea of a T-shirt saying:
Is-lamb the real meat? I think so!
Could be a goer, unlike the unlucky Cronulla riot person who got fined mine is cryptic, dumb and yet fun.Or I’m thinking of standing out the front with swimsuit on and I could paint this on my tummy, oh, and Ms Vanstone, I tried to warn you not to wear pink lippy with the sunflower shirt, as the Islamics think you’re inviting them for gang rape, so wear coral lippy please!
Don’t forget, Blair News is gutsy news, with gutsy reporters and gutsy stories!
Blair News Today at 10am!
- Even the BBC web site quoted the disapproval from The Age, SMH, etc.
This guy is a turd of the foulest kind. And he has 5000 cheering supporters in his mosque? I see there are at least 5000 jihadis in Australia. I trust your government has put a stop to this invasion.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 27 at 06:44 PM • permalink
- You can rest assured that there will be no more taping of the sheik’s sermons from now on. It appears that nothing cramps his style more than being called on what he actually believes. One thing that people can draw from this is with that telling the truth is not part of being a high ranking muslim cleric – gosh who was to know?
Compare this to the demonisation of the governer general a few years ago when he suggested that an underage relationship was consentual and therefore ok. The man was rightly hounded and villified and shunned by charities until he had no other choice but resign. Sure, the sheik does not hold public office but so far it looks like he will be doing anything but resigning.
As far as his “cleaning up of the whitehouse” is concerned – well what will he say if ,god forbid, a white infidel whore ends up running it in 2008? I don’t think that it would then be classified as “clean” in a muslim sense?
- Where are you, Miranda?? The least you could do is come to the support of the Sheik’s assessment that BUSH IS TO BLAME.
Actually the Stumbletongue has outed himself by that uncontrolled [’unintentionally published’] piece of political agitprop. Imagine what he says quietly to mates inside his Mosque!
ANY criticism of Moslems proves they are ‘victims of Bush’ and the West – even in Australia.
- #7 harry: The good Imam forgot to mention the standard of proof for rape or adultery in Shari’a: four adult male muslim eyewitnesses
And, of course, his truly revealing criticism of women means that it’s very likely the woman’s life will be forfeitbefore any man’s – by ‘honour killing’ or by being strung up by a crane on any street corner in Iran, while the serial perpretrator looks on from the seat of his taxi.. [This really was shown on TV recently.]
- Someone needs to explain to Fatima how poorly she understands her own religion.Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 10 27 at 08:06 PM • permalink
- Hilaly’s supporters stress what a great Muslim scholar he is. Plenty of other Muslim leaders in the west agree with him, and in Iran and Saudi Arabia his views are standard wisdom. Hilaly is giving a knowledgable, informed account of Koranic teaching.
The press dont seem to want to examine that because of the unpleasant implications for multicultism.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 10 27 at 08:08 PM • permalink
- Australia’s Muslims fear backlash
By Nick Bryant
BBC News, Sydney BBC NewsPosted by Crusader rabbit on 2006 10 27 at 08:11 PM • permalink
- Greatest Muslim Scholar on Earth = Last Monkey to Touch the Monolith.Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 10 27 at 08:12 PM • permalink
- There’d be no rape at all if Ikea’s Dhimmiwear (TM) was compulsory.Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 10 27 at 08:13 PM • permalink
- More lies, deceit and fabrication from Herr Trad the Propaganda Minister, vainly trying to excuse the poisonous drivel from Al Hillbilly.
Ho hum. Same shit. Different day.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 10 27 at 08:25 PM • permalink
- Let’s be honest here. Isn’t this really just a reaction to the West’s unkindness to Muslims? Hilali feels powerless, and that is obviously our fault. To compensate for this lack of power that he feels, Hilali feels a need to reassert his masculinity by kicking women around and yodelling batshit-crazy gibberish in all directions until he’s hoarse. It’s clearly a reasonable response, once you understand that the Jews made him do it. Before you can judge, you need to learn to see it from Hilali’s own viewpoint, which happens to be that of a lunatic.
Are we not blaming the victim here?
Posted by Don’t Bogart that Midget, Comrade! on 2006 10 27 at 08:26 PM • permalink
- People like Michelle Gratton still don’t get it. They think the whore of Lakemba is an abberation. They believe that if he steps down (or is pushed) everything will be okay. It won’t be okay. The only solution to all of this is that Lebanese muslims are prohibited from migrating to Australia: their values are incommensurable with those of a liberal democracy.
- What #3 said. Too bloody right.Posted by Crusader rabbit on 2006 10 27 at 08:48 PM • permalink
- By the way, I don’t believe the letter by Fatima Abdullatif should be quoted favourably as an example of Muslims holding the whore of Lakemba to account. Please note that she also writes that she finds “reassurance in the belief that negative comments [about Islam] come from those who do not understand Islam”.
Oh Really? Who does she think she’s kidding? This might work for clergyman from Rivett, but it doesn’t cut much ice with people who do in fact know a considerable amount about Islam (I’ve lived and worked in a half a dozen Muslim countries over the last 25 years – including Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia and southern Philippines). Perhsps Fatima could tell us the rationale behind Pakistan’s Hudood Laws and the crime of Zina, or the intent of late night conversations in Indonesian mosques where men talk seriously about killing local Christians (and sometimes act on it)? Or the Muslim clerics in Aceh who after the tsunami blamed the event on uncovered women (which explained why a disproportionately greater number of women and girls were killed)? Please Fatima, enlighten us about the religion of peace and tell us all why any reasonably educated person would believe you.
Personally, I find people like Fatima to be as dangerous as the mosque of goat fuckers in Lakemba. The truth of the matter – as most people are now starting to realise – is that Fatima’s religion does not allow us to exist. And deep in her heart, she knows this to be true. She is a liar.
- If I posted something on this thread, I would have to plead the fifth.
Can anyone spell “strong dislike dislexia”?
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 27 at 09:00 PM • permalink
- And amongst all the noise… over at the SMH , the PM “Mr Howard said Sheik Hilaly was an Australian citizen and could not be deported.”
Well I say, if David Hicks can be stripped of his UK citizenship within hours of it being granted, then surely we can do the same.
Hmmm .. let’s see. How about inciting people to violence / committing crimes / inciting rape etc etc. It’s about time we cut out the bullshit, cut to the chase and stop waffling about what this disgusting creep Hilali said. Just strip him of his citizenship and send him back to Egypt where he belongs.
But wait – now there’s this ‘little’ gem from Mick Keelty
“If we are not careful we risk raising a generation of Australians who will have a bias against Islam.”
He’s right in one respect, but too late I say. It’s already happening by the minute, with every disgusting mediaeval act demonstration by the Muslims here themselves.
- #8 Yes this is the famous “Dr” Zankin- he can never find enough anti-israeli and far left comments to put his two cents into- and the Canberra Times is more than happy to accommodate his drivel- can’t remember where I read it, but I understand he was the chaplain at RAAF (Royal Australian Airforce) at Fairbairn.
- #8
I notice he now calls himself Dr and well as Rev
Vincent Zankin has always called himself Rev. Dr, however the Australian always excludes it in his letters.
Miranda Devine called him “a prolific writer of baffling letters to newspapers”.
To my knowledge, “Reverend” has no actual rank, or qualification anyway.
Sincerely,
The Very Reverend Dan Lewis.
- Keating was a piece of shit back then, and he’s more putrid now. He was quite the little businessman in China with Macquarie Bank for a while there, but was nowhere near as tough face-to-face as he pretended to be in parliament. I used to see him sometimes at functions in Shanghai and a more fawning piece of slime you couldn’t imagine. On the face of it, the Chinese made no comment, but away from the spotlight they regarded him, so I’m told, as quite the idiot.
- “Keysar Trad, weary of his usual “out of context” routine,…”
Is that usual Keysar Trad jazz?Posted by stackja1945 on 2006 10 27 at 10:27 PM • permalink
- Seriously, what in the hell is it going to take, for the sane women and men of this world, to put these cultists in there place, defeat their cult, shred their book, reduce their population, or a combination of any or all of the above?
Really, what will it take?
It seems, that ‘they’ score all the points and the rest of us, haven’t showed up at the game. When will the rest of the world show up, or is this our fate.
Stand back and allow these cretins to say or take what they want, when they want, how they want, where they want, while we watch?
- Sydney’s Hillsong Church leader, Brian Houston, said there was “no doubt the Bible teaches about modesty, but to me, these are not issues you can regulate, it has to be a matter of personal conviction”.
Oh, I forgot my dream, the virgin said to me, something… something…(forget that part ) to wash away the sins of the world. There was a lily and a rose and she had hands of water. She said do not query the devine! kool hey?
love phi phi ratio 1.618
- P G Wodehouse had a character, pal of Bertie Wooster and fellow Drone, named Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright, IIRC.
I move we refer to el Hilaly from now on as Sheik el CATSMEAT.
Would that be so wrong ?Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2006 10 27 at 11:01 PM • permalink
Muslims face enough discrimination
No, they don’t. That’s why scum like al-Hilali can get into this country.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2006 10 27 at 11:09 PM • permalink
- This guy seriously needs to get some pussy!Posted by mr creosote on 2006 10 27 at 11:16 PM • permalink
- Notice it never crosses KittyLitter Mullah’s two volt brain that a woman can go out, earn money and get her own damn lounge set? NO! Because that would require her being f-r-e-e. So Tunafinger Turban here wants to keep women prisoners and complain about cleaning their cages too. But he’s the victim, he and his catamite-loving buddies in the mosque there.
Tons of space debris hit earth yearly, why never the right place?
- Have you posters seen the full translation? Goes beyond women.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20656690-601,00.html
He says Christians will go to hell-
“Those who disbelieve amongst the people of the Book and the polytheists, where will they go? Surfers Paradise? Gold Coast? Where? To the fire of hell. And not part-time, they’ll be in it for eternity. What are these people? The most evil of God’s creation on the face of earth.”
He doesn’t like Canadian and Mexican women either–
“”She is pushing him. Not our women in Australia, the women of Canada. The hall up there is full. They are the women of Canada and Mexico, the ones who encourage their men – to do what? Go! Get me! And no matter how much he brings her, she wants more.””
Posted by theoclitus on 2006 10 28 at 12:02 AM • permalink
- Apologies for #49. The Australian says that it is a full translation of the Mufti’s speech “last month”, not yesterday or two days ago.
Still essential reading on the fellow though.
Posted by theoclitus on 2006 10 28 at 12:20 AM • permalink
- It is the cat’s meat speech though…not up on Australian Mufti news. Here’s another charming comment.
“”But the whole disaster, who started it? The Al-Rafihi scholar says in one of his literary works, he says: If I come across a crime of rape – kidnap and violation of honour – I would discipline the man and teach him a lesson in morals, and I would order the woman be arrested and jailed for life.””
Posted by theoclitus on 2006 10 28 at 12:23 AM • permalink
- It is common knowledge that many women across the Muslim world are regarded as ‘loose’ if they choose not to wear a veil. And the pressure is increasing.
These ideas don’t come out of thin air.
Thought ‘Carter’ made a fair point in Matt Price’s ‘blog’ in ‘The Australian’:
26 October at 08:46 PM
“… The real point is, why is it that when he mentions the sacred cow of women’s rights the only time he is pressured? He has sung the praises of suicide bombers for decades but elite, PC, art-gallery goody-goodies in the multicultural media mafia have just kissed his feet … “
But even then most of Australia’s PC industry remains silent or plays the anti-Christian equivalence game or the “Backlash Against Muslims Routine”. When the latte crowd weigh in with this nonsense, they strengthen the hand of radicals within Islam who are currently winning the battle for the heart of this religion.
The good Sheik got some canny advice when he replied to criticism with an attack on Bush. Not crazily off-point at all – but an appeal to solidarity with his non-Muslim base on the Left.
Islam would never be my cup of tea but we should all be worried about what is it becoming. The Lakemba sermon did not come from a member of the Taliban or Winner of the Sydney Peace Prize but Australia’s most senior Muslim cleric. Doesn’t get more mainstream than that. If this is not the true voice of Islam, can Walid Ali explain why these words came of the mouth of Islam’s most senior cleric in Australia? (I will in the meantime restrain my bestial impulses and not abuse Muslims in the street or at work.)
- #43, there will be NO corruption of PG Wodehouse’s adorable characters – no matter how great the temptaion – while I have strength to read and respond on this blog!
However, Wodehouse, via the fictional pen of Bertie Wooster did say: “Cats will be cats”.
He at least referred to the cat Augustus whose devotion to leisure meant that he spent much time cultivating the noble art of slumber.Sheik Hilaly clearly mixes with the gutter-level cat – the abused and hungry stray wandering the streets of those who treat food in nasty insanitary ways.
I can’t believe people still take this immature crap seriously, whatever the source.
Posted by carpefraise on 2006 10 28 at 01:40 AM • permalink
- #52
If this is not the true voice of Islam, can Walid Ali explain why these words came of the mouth of Islam’s most senior cleric in Australia?
And why of the at least 500 people who heard him say it, not one complained about it, until the media blew the story open a month later.
To be honest, Sheik Hilaly isn’t the problem. He is merely a symptom. Getting rid of him won’t get rid of the people who believe what he said.
Australia needs to come to terms with this problem, encourage non-Muslim immigration (especially from those fleeing Europe) and limit Muslim immigration.
There, I’ve said it. No euphemisms, no awkward and vague references. We have a problem.
- #47
he and his catamite-loving buddies in the mosque there.I submit that Hilaly’s speech WAS misquoted and mistranslated – he evidently meant that when meat is uncovered, CATAMITES will come to eat it…they don’t treat little boys all that well there either.
Posted by carpefraise on 2006 10 28 at 01:50 AM • permalink
- Excerpt from my blog:
The thread at the Muslim Village forum, which includes Kitty Litter Sheik’s PR person (and a confusing thread because a few threads have been murged and I do think a couple of posts may have been deleted) indicate a few had it out for Kerbaj for publishing the original piece without even thinking that perhaps he was correctly quoting the mufti. (The odd sober commenter like AliG)
It seems that the Ramadan sermon was streamed live on Quran Kareem (QK) Radio which may have been where Kerbaj or his source found it and explain the delay. Ironic that Ahmed who remembered hearing this sermon didn’t tweak
***
I think Dan is on the money here. Sheik is a symptom. However I don’t think mass people movements are the answer either – modern mass media is borderless (and I’m not about to give up Europe either).
- #37, “He was surrounded by more than 200 fervent supporters as he made his way to a waiting car.
The Israelis would know what to do with that kind of setup.”Yeah you can say that again, of course it would still be Americas fault…
#41, Cid, I’ve got this horrifically bad feeling it will be when they set off a nuke somewhere.
#54″Australia needs to come to terms with this problem, encourage non-Muslim immigration (especially from those fleeing Europe) and limit Muslim immigration.
There, I’ve said it. No euphemisms, no awkward and vague references. We have a problem. “
Spot on Dan.Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 10 28 at 03:48 AM • permalink
- Well, the evening news promises to be a laugh a minute this evening.
Apparently our very own Catmeat Sheikh is still preaching even though he wasn’t going to be.
Since Catmeat is also supposed to be going to Mecca shortly (I really wish it wasn’t spelled like Decca – I’ve got some fine albums on that label), would he be going for Haj or is that in a few months’ time?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 28 at 03:57 AM • permalink
- Okay, now he’s blaming the media, the pollies, and rogue elements in the muslim community.
Pressure is still on for him to bet the boot, and Keysar also got his face on claiming that the Catmeat Sheikh is considered the victim of a witchhunt and is being made a martyr.
What a surprise!
That’s channel 7, so I’ll be waiting for the ABC’s spin on it all.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 28 at 04:16 AM • permalink
- Oops. PIMF bet = get, but you figured that, anyway.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 28 at 04:26 AM • permalink
- Morris Iemma: regarding removal of NSW taxpayer funding to groups associated with the Lakemba Mosque. “We cannot penalise the Muslim community because of the Mufti’s views”. Did he not have grass roots support, let the ignorant Bastards pay for their own Bullshit beliefs. I hope there is a politician (politicians) out there with the balls to play the anti Muslim card in the state election they will romp into parliament.
- #64:
Our venerable Premier is the sitting member of one of the most populous Muslim areas in Australia. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, Lakemba Mosque sits right in his seat [sic].So does it surprise you that he is not going to be responding with anything more than a bit of lip?
- Well Aussie Muslims, it seems you have a clear choice. So what’ll it be: Sheik Hilaly or Fatima Abdullatif. We’ll wait for an answer, but not much longer.Posted by G Hamid USA on 2006 10 28 at 12:09 PM • permalink
- The SMH is claiming that this guy is a “moderate”.
If that’s the case, imagine what the sermons are like from the hard nuts in countries like Iran, Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. I shudder to think.
Has anyone heard a comment from Germaine Greer?
Posted by mr creosote on 2006 10 28 at 06:42 PM • permalink
- #69 Inurbanus, I would absolutely agreed that I am prejudiced person. I am unashamedly prejudiced against those that would treat me as a lump of meat and be a retrogressive force on western civilisation.
With islam, ALL islam, treatment of women as lesser beings deserving of punishment for crimes committed against them rather than by them is upheld by readings of their books. On what “religious” pretext could the muslims of Lakemba object to their imam’s words?
I do not consider myself a bigot simply because I recognise that a political system called islam is an existential threat to me and western civilisation generally.
Definitions of Bigot:
WordNet Dictionary Definition: [n]a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.Websters 1913
1. A hypocrite; esp., a superstitious hypocrite. [Obs.]2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
- 74# Well put Renate. It is time to reverse the situation in this country and even if we have to change some laws and repatriate whole families of intolerant hatemongers (Hilaly and spawn will do for a start). There has to be a political change of emphasis for the decent and hard working citizens in this country. We have shit on our shoes lets wipe it off.
- #74 Renate
I wasn’t thinking of you when I referred to bigots but to the good sheik.
You are too quick to pull up the drawbridge. Australia is stronger than bigots like Hilali and his supporters within the Muslim community. What’s going on here is a sign of this country’s strength. Hilali has been exposed and shamed.
We have to help Muslims in Australia defend themselves against these Islamist mafiosos. The first battle is for the heart of Islam; when that is won by the neo-primitives, they will come after the yet-to-be-converted.
When we say things like ‘repatriate whole families of intolerant hatemongers’(#75 Howzat), we play into the hands of Islamist radicals as surely as the multiculti crowd and the moral relativists.
- Inurbanus, several years ago I would have agreed with you, but the more I learn of islam the less comfortable I am with anyone who believes in it being in Australia. I agree with Howzat, the sooner we reverse our tolerance of the intolerant the better.
Whenever I now hear any condemnation of what a fellow muslim says the first thing I think of is taqqiya. I no longer believe a word they say to us when protecting their faith or thinking they are protecting themselves from “us”. I want to know why there was no problem with the sermon until it was exposed. It is only those muslims who are trying to protect their “religion” who very carefully suggest that the mufti was wrong. Somewhat like when they say islam does not condone the murder of innocents without mentioning that only muslims are considered innocent.
I’m still waitng to see a religious justification for condemning the mufti’s speech.
- What if someone meets an uncovered cat and refuses to rape it on the ground that it might be a plate of meat transmogrified into a live animal in search of an uncovered plate of meat? Would that make it a conundrum complex enough to Ask the Imam?Posted by carpefraise on 2006 10 29 at 04:34 AM • permalink
- #86 Renate
Accepted. Thanks.
#87 Howzat We can’t go after people simply because they say something stupid, objectionable and insulting. The laws Howard now has in place seem to be dealing with the situation. The rest is the tougher job of hearts and minds – and a lot of that is for Muslims to settle among themselves.
Moderate Muslims – they do exist; many are my work mates – have a tougher time than us because in making a case against bloody-minded puritans, they risk at best accusations that they are not true Muslims and at worst the threat of violence. They need our help. Lump them together with lunatics like Hilali and his supporters and we are going to make the Hilalis, Bin Ladens and Bashirs stronger.
I’m all for swift action against those who are dangerous but we can’t have a situation such as exists in Victoria where people find themselves before the courts because they criticise others’ values and beliefs, let alone, God help us, deporting them – no matter how profoundly disturbing those criticisms are. Talk to Pastors Nalliah & Scot about where that leads.
I am disturbed about current trends within Islam and recognise that the leading edge of those trends is terrorism but throwing the baby out with the bath water will get us nowhere.
9/11 proved that the world is everywhere now. Isolationism won’t work. We’ve got to play this one smart.
- For your amusement, the Lebanese Muslim Association is not happy with the pressure to kick Catmeat out.
According to the noos headlines this evening, they have forumulated a plan to deal with the issue, but won’t be kicking him out.
Of course, the plan is confidential.
Way to inspire confidence, LMA, way to ensure the Oz community at large have a bit of faith in you. lol
no links, sorry. If I find one I’ll post it.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 29 at 07:53 AM • permalink
- #89 Inurbanus
I am disturbed about current trends within Islam and recognise that the leading edge of those trends is terrorism but throwing the baby out with the bath water will get us nowhere.
You’ve gotta be kidding.
What baby?
Islam is pretty much all crap.Curent trend…you’re aware of over 60 million Indian deaths when Islam pushed into India?
“The Muslims paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels and worshipers of sun and fire. The friends of Allah searched the bodies of the slain for three days in order to obtain booty…The booty amounted in gold and silver, rubies and pearls nearly to three hundred thousand dirhams, and the number of prisoners may be conceived from the fact that each was sold for two to ten dirhams. These were afterwards taken to Ghazni and merchants came from distant cities to purchase them, so that the countries of Mawaraun-Nahr, Iraq and Khurasan were filled with them, and the fair and the dark, the rich and the poor, were commingled in one common slavery.”
Then of course there is the massive human loss of life wherever Islam has gone.
Including Persia,
And Egypt.
And Algeria.
And Spain.
And Malaysia.
And every other place a Muslim has set foot and therefore claimed as forever Dar-al-Islam…including now Australia…thus we have Sheik Hilali draping himself in our flag.
- Inurabanus,
Have you read the Koran? of the Hadiths? Do you realise that your “moderate” muslim friends have as their spiritual leader a man who regularly indulged in torture, murder, rape and paedophilia?
Your experience of “moderate” muslims as evidence that Islam may be compatible with western society is based upon your personal experiences. This type of argument is regularly used by the left and is referred to by Plato as doxa (opinion). It proves nothing and cannot be regarded as a valid argument.
A more accuarate opinion of the subject would involve reading the Islamic literature and observing the sociological effect of these teachings on Islamic societies over the past 1400 odd years. This would lead to a more accurate knowledge of the situation; a level of knowledge referred to by Plato as epistemon (knowledge).
The social problems we are currently experiencing are due to the fact that immigration decisions have not been based on true knowledge of Islam – they have been based on leftist ideology and personal experience only. True argument about the nature of Islam was not even considered, as such an argument would have been anathema to believers in cultural relitavism.
Of course many Muslims are nice people – however they are nice people despite, not because, of their religion. Or maybe they are nice because being nice makes life easier and provides one with more opportunities. Or maybe they don’t really take their religion seriously? Who knows?
The point is, that meeting nice muslims is not evidence that true Islam (as revealed in the Koran) will ever be a positive part of western society. In fact the Koran clearly reveals that Islam is constantly in a state of spiritual/political/physical war with non-muslims.
- Inurbanus—the “moderates” voice their objections when in the presence of kaffir, but still go to the mosques run by the likes of Hilali. They still donate to “charities” that support “widows and orphans” in “Palestine”. They still thump the Koran and declare Mohammed “the perfect man and model for humanity”.
The moderates are the enablers. They’re the smokescreen. They fund and cheer the terrorists. When they express their disapproval of the likes of Hilaly, it’s because of the harm he does to the image of Islam, not because they think he’s wrong.
Been hearing the crap for years. It’s unvarying across time, continents, and languages. The “most respected” imams and muftis say something horrid to non-Muslim ears, and we’re told they’re “taken out of context” or “mistranslated”. A few token “moderate” Muslims express their displeasure with the remarks. Then they immediately do nothing.
If the moderates are the vast majority, and the extremists a tiny minority, why the hell can’t the vast majority clean house? Maybe it’s because the supposed moderates aren’t moderate, or because the majority aren’t moderate.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 10 29 at 09:09 AM • permalink
- Hey, this is the bloghead’s sh*tshow. Let him entertain your feeble minds. But the gross feeding frenzy on display here is not about protecting the rights of women but about “get the misogynist muslim” (and, by association, all of ‘em). This all about fanning the flames of culture war, not a toss more.
The blogmire would not part with two wrapped shit sandwiches in return for real action on rape in the west. As Tony Montana says: “Jou point your fockin’ fingers and say there goes da bad guy. Wot dat make jou? good?”
Posted by Miranda Divide on 2006 10 29 at 06:30 PM • permalink
- #74 Renate: 1913 Partial Definition of bigot: “a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.”
The key words in this are ‘obstinately and blindly‘. I would add, ‘ignorantly’.
Unless this is part of the definition of bigot, it is meaningless.
Am I a ‘bigot’ if I strongly believe Mein Kampf is a very evil book after reading what it teaches?? Of course not.It is moral relativism to insist on absolute tolerance of others’ ideas..
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Islam is a disease of the mind.