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Last updated on August 5th, 2017 at 01:51 pm
Melbourne’s Royal Women’s Hospital employs a female genital mutilation liaison officer; an essential requirement in a modern multicultural city, I suppose. The subject arose during debate with Lefty Kim, who’d earlier criticised mutilation victim Ayaan Hirsi Ali (“Her view on Islam is too much coloured by her own experience …”). Now behold Kim’s opinion on Islamic girl-cutting:
It would also be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using. It would seem to me counterproductive to have loud denunciations of it – the key thing should be to convince people it is wrong.
You’d think if there was one issue on which a Western feminist might be moved to loud denunciation, it’d be the genital mutilation of little girls. But no; this instead turns out to be an issue (one of the few) about which the likes of Kim are inclined to shut the hell up. In the rock-scissors-paper hierarchy of the modern left, sensitivity to Islam trumps clitoral scissors every time. From the same thread, here’s another leftoid view:
I don’t agree that demonising [Hirsi Ali’s] ex-coreligionists is the most ethical or the most pragmatic response to undertake in the aim of ensuring that it doesn’t happen to other little girls anymore.
They’ll happily demonise conservative politicians over industrial relations laws – a preferred description is “brutal” – but show them genuine brutality and this bunch of pikers suddenly wants to be all “ethical” and “pragmatic”. And then they clam up in fright:
I think keeping [the comments thread] open at this time serves no productive purpose whatever. If any one has a new perspective on the issues, and wants to engage in a genuine debate about the best way to address FGM without descending into a political stoush or vulgar abuse, then they’re welcome to email me …
Read the entire thread; you’ll find more aggressive exchanges at a gamer noticeboard (for that matter, read Kim’s original post, in which the isolated example of Islam-dominated Algeria is held to be proof that liberal secularism isn’t “a necessary precondition for women’s path to equality”; Brisbane is a hot place to wear a freedom sack, but Kim seems to be, er, warming to the idea. She may be interested to learn, by the way, that Islam was introduced to Algeria by colonising invaders).
Gaia forbid that debate about razor-wielding girl-choppers should become unruly; somebody’s feelings may be hurt. Meanwhile, the swords are out in Gaza:
A Muslim extremist group threatened to behead female TV broadcasters if they don’t don strict Islamic dress, leaving the women terrified and marking a further downward spiral in Gaza’s anarchy. The threat to “cut throats from vein to vein” was delivered by the Swords of Truth …
It would be counterproductive to have loud denunciations of this – the key thing should be to convince people it is wrong.
(Via MM and especially Nilknarf, who fought well – alongside others – in that gutless submission pit.)
UPDATE. Yay for the sisterhood! (Via Ed Driscoll)
UPDATE II. Ayaan Hirsi Ali in Sydney last night:
I am not a Muslim because I lost respect for the book and its author and his messenger. I lost respect for them because of their bloodthirsty demands to kill and hate. I now feel the common humanity with those I once shunned: the Jews, Christians, atheists, gays, sinners of all stripes and colours.
Full report here.
UPDATE III. Late Monday night, and doubtless following a blizzard of emails between herself and Lardo Prodo czar Mark Bahnisch, Kim responds:
I don’t want to re-open the debate.
Why would she? There should be a mercy rule in some blog disputes.
I do want to clear up some misconceptions about what I was arguing, which wouldn’t have arisen had people been reading for meaning and context.
Our fault. Right.
Firstly, some seem to think I was downplaying Ali’s own experience. Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I had no intention whatsoever of minimising her pain and suffering.
Well, there was that line about Ali’s “view on Islam” being “too much coloured by her own experience”.
Secondly, her experiences do not put her beyond criticism … But to subject her views to reasonable criticism is not the same thing.
Kim should review the left’s complaints over criticism of Cindy Sheehan.
Those who would seek to silence her through threats and intimidation are acting in an evil and abhorrent fashion.
Although it doesn’t rise anywhere near to the level of threat or intimidation, Kim’s initial post concluded with a line suggesting she’d be quite happy to see Ali silenced:
It should be long past time that we take the blinkers off and start asking exactly who and what aims the rhetoric employed by [Hirsi Ali] serve[s].
The woman’s a Bush puppet! Kim continues:
Thirdly, my criticism of “loud denunciations” of FGM (and I fail to understand why some commenters believe that to use an acronym is to downgrade its horror) does not mean that I don’t believe that it should be denounced by all reasonable and compassionate people.
But just not loudly.
What has been entirely overlooked in much of the criticism of what I have written is that I’ve consistently argued that people who are as horrified by FGM as I and many other feminists are have chosen to do something practical about the issue by giving financial support to women working in African countries who are working within their own communities to convince others that the practice is wrong and abhorrent (as I said in my original post) and should cease.
While not denouncing it with any volume.
I believe that Ali does useful work in highlighting the horrific realities of FGM, as I said on the original thread …
But not, tellingly, in her original post.
… but I believe that the best step that can be taken to work against it is to give support to those who are best placed to do so where it occurs, not to politicise the issue.
The left politicises every other issue; why not this one? Where are the demonstrations?
FGM is also practiced by some Jews and Christians, and I don’t think that the cause of opposing its continuance is at all served by turning it into a religious or a political issue.
A note I made to myself yesterday: “Any response from Kim will include comparison to other religions.” If female genital mutilation was practiced overwhelmingly by Jews and Christians – and I’m not convinced it is practiced by those groups in any significant number, if at all – you could bet your life Kim & Co. would make it a political and religious issue. She’ll remain quiet about it from now because it’s predominantly an Islamic issue. I’d be surprised if she ever wrote about it again.
- I wish the midwives, doctors, nurses, social workers, community nurses etc were as active now on the issue of chopping up little girls’ genitalia as they were in 1983 when my son was born. Circumcision, I was told by the full force of the medical establishment at the birth unit, was unacceptable in a civilised society. If my husband and I wanted our son circumcised it would be done without topical anaesthesia and we would be forced to hold him while the procedure was carried out. Talk about emotional blackmail! Obviously we didn’t proceed.
We were browbeaten into the decision by every health professional at the hospital. So why are they so silent on female castration?
Also, why do people feel so comfortable discussing the procedure as FMG, like it’s KFG or AGW? Or BHP or NSW or ALP?
- Kim and co are against FGM. But they’re even more against anything that would prevent it from happening.
That pretty much sums up the Left’s attitude to genocide, dictatorships, etc etc. With the exception of the Eustonites, regarded as pariahs by most of the Left. You see, the Eustonites condemn dictatorships and theocracies, they don’t bed down with them.
- Bravo, Kim! Bravo! Your volunteering to be a good dhimmi is a fine example for the other lefties. And once again the left demonstrates their collective cowardice and hypocrisy.
When it comes to walking the walk, KimCo falls to their knees and begs for the truly violent people in this world to accept the obedience of her and ilk.
No wonder the left demonizes what’s happening in Iraq and Afghanistan; cowards fear and hate those who have a backbone.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 06 03 at 01:32 PM • permalink
- I don’t get it. About a decade ago, there was an advertising campaign that featured a billboard showing a scantily-clad woman and the legend “On [some date], the top comes off”. The feminists threw a fit, bringing the campaign all the free attention they could ever want. It was offensive, sexist, yadda yadda.
The station and its ad company stood their ground, and on the proscribed date, they removed the upper half of the billboard.
Which, as I recall, brought more cries of protest because it was “mutilating” the model.
Yet when we’re talking about real mutilation, mutilation that’s brutal, potentially crippling, potentially deadly, and done with the express purpose of oppressing women, well, then there’s silence.
Is it just cowardice? Or is it that they really don’t have a beef about women being horrifically treated, but rather use that as an excuse to attack a culture, a way of life, they despise?
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 06 03 at 01:43 PM • permalink
- “Extremist Muslim Group”
As opposed to…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 06 03 at 01:46 PM • permalink
- Kimmie and her ilk are foul creatures who hide their cowardice under the guise of cultural “sensitivity” and “relevance.” If it’s Western, especially Australian or American, it’s evil and must be stamped out in the name of Freeing Women. If it’s Islamic and/or tribal, well, who are we to judge their cultural traditions?
– Dressing baby girls in pink? OPPRESSION!
– Allowing little girls to play house or cuddle dolls? OPPRESSION! Gender stereotyping!
– Marriage? OPPRESSION! Slavery!
– Images of attractive women in advertising? OPPRESSION! Exploitation!
– Men’s clubs? OPPRESSION! Discrimination!
– Motherhood? OPPRESSION! Slavery!
– Mutilation of infants and children designed to destroy female sexuality so that barbaric monsters calling themselves men can control them even more thoroughly? A cultural practice we may not understand or approve of, but that we must tolerate in the name of proper multiculturalism
– Forcing women to wear shapeless black bags from head to toe so that men won’t be “forced” to rape them? Multiculturalism!
– Murdering women to restore family honor? Multiculturalism!
Disgusting. Kimmie and her fellow apologists sicken me.
Posted by Blue State Sil on 2007 06 03 at 02:03 PM • permalink
- If these
womenclowns are not willing to LOUDLY and often denounce female genital mutililation, then they must approve of it.So they’re going to line up to have it done to themselves, right?
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 06 03 at 02:13 PM • permalink
- Where the hell has this ditz Kim been? I’ve been hearing about the horrors of genital mutilation ever since my college days in the early 90’s, when I was surrounded by feminist groups, only then the protests were directed at the African animist societies who practiced it. Do people like Kim really believe that genital mutilation as practiced by Islamic societies is a kinder, gentler form of genital mutilation?
- More Primitivist hogwash from the Left. Lovely.
I’ve got news for them, Jean-Jacques Rousseau was a narcissistic wanker.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 06 03 at 02:38 PM • permalink
- “It would also be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using. It would seem to me counterproductive to have loud denunciations of it…”
That would be counterproductive, and a waste of time.
If I ever see someone mutiliating a little girl (not likely, but strange things do happen sometimes), I’m not going to waste time “denouncing”, I’m going to pull out my popgun and shoot the perp dead.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 03 at 02:56 PM • permalink
- “Kimmie The Dhimmi.”
Rather rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 06 03 at 02:56 PM • permalink
- Contrast this utter moral, ethical and philosophical capitulation with the rock-throwing, molotov-cocktail-heaving southpaws in Rostock. No chin-stroking, navel-gazing, convincing “people it is wrong” going on there…the Left knows that the free market and (mostly) freely-elected governments are bad, bad!
These people are opponents of liberty, foes of democracy and enemies of the Enlightenment.
Posted by Jeffersonian on 2007 06 03 at 03:04 PM • permalink
- “I don’t agree that demonising [Hirsi Ali’s] ex-coreligionists is the most ethical or the most pragmatic response to undertake in the aim of ensuring that it doesn’t happen to other little girls anymore.”
Once again, I agree with the leftscum. A more ethical and pragmatic approach to the problem would be to make it an automatic capital offense (no possibility of any lessser sentence if convicted) to torture and mutilate little girls.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 03 at 03:11 PM • permalink
- So is Kim volunteering to have it done to her in a modern, sterile setting under anaesthetic and by a qualified surgeon? No, eh. I wonder what that tells us.Posted by andycanuck on 2007 06 03 at 03:23 PM • permalink
- Wow, I just read the comments over at Kim’s thread. Inurbanus, Jack Strocci, Nilk and others are utterly annihilating the multiculti herd. No wonder she shut off debate…it’s the last arrow that the Left has in its barren quiver: silencing the opposition.
Hugo Chavez, llama su oficina!
Posted by Jeffersonian on 2007 06 03 at 03:24 PM • permalink
- My initial reaction is a long string of swear words to this chick.
I have to believe though, that this person is just paralyzed by two conflicting thoughts. She knows it’s wrong but I guarantee she feels like she’s selling out to the neocon fascist whoevers if she criticizes muslims.
If only we could convince her these people were Presbyterians.
- “It would also be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using. It would seem to me counterproductive to have loud denunciations of it…”
It is against criminal and child protection laws in most Australian states. (I can tell you it is definitely illegal for even doctors to perform FGM in SA and Vic (if Kim was REALLY interested she can google it up herself)
There is no federal law as far as I know but if all state laws covered it, there is no need to.
However, anyone with a modicum of moral sense would not need to know whether it was legal or done my doctors or whatever. It is quite simply, wrong.
I have to believe though, that this person is just paralyzed by two conflicting thoughts. She knows it’s wrong but I guarantee she feels like she’s selling out to the neocon fascist whoevers if she criticizes muslims.
I think it was in 2002 I first heard the phrase “anti-anti-jihadi”. It’s a parallel to the anti-anti-communists of the Cold War—it’s not that they’re necessarily in favor of the jihadis, but that they’re opposed to the people who work against the jihadis. The effect is the same as if they were in support of them, but the motives are purely out of their opposition to a “common enemy”. The moonbats aren’t so much in support of the barbarians as they are opposed to the defenders of civilization.
So, yeah, for such people to denounce the barbarism would be “selling out” to the right. The cognitive dissonance, though, eventually leads them to truly support the barbarians.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 06 03 at 04:31 PM • permalink
- Rob, #26, is spot-on. The Left isn’t on Team Jihad, they’re just letting TJ draft off of them or, when the situation calls for it, poking a stick into the spokes of civilization.Posted by Jeffersonian on 2007 06 03 at 05:19 PM • permalink
- Give thanks that you do not live in the mental and moral swamp that little Kimmy and her ilk are submerged in. The more they tie themselves in knots to justify condemning the helpless to tribal superstition in the name of “multiculturalism”, the smaller and more shriveled their souls become. Give thanks that you are not them.
- Lefty Kim calls for quiet diplomacy to stop female genital mutilation.
Remember quiet diplomacy? How the leftists denounced it.
Here’s the plan of Lefty Kim and the other genius leftists:
1. Ally, or act in tandem, with islamofascists in order to take over.
2. Declare free cheese, thereby causing the islamofascist threat (grounded in nothing but “conditions”) to evaporate forever.
The islamofascists played them for suckers in Iran. They’ll do it every time.
- This is one of the few things that makes me “cold” angry instead of “hot”. ie, I don’t want to argue, shout, throw things, or threaten. Abusing children who cannot defend themselves is unacceptable. That idea is at the base of Anglo-Christian values. It’s made the world different and better, and I don’t give a shit if people think I’m a racist knuckle-dragger for saying so.
- The clitoris of girls is cut in order to curb their sexual desire and preserve their sexual honor before marriage.
Many girls bleed to death or die of infection. Some clerics condemn FGM as an archaic practice, some accept it, and still others believe it to be obligatory.
Australia, don’t forget we have medicare, and everyone gets everything for free! Free female mutilations with rebate are good for the economy! (rolls the eyes). Having an officer for mutilation gives that person a job, so it’s good for the Australian economy! yip ee.
- It seems that the fundamental rule of the Left is that whenever our society opposes something, we are always:
(a) The ones really at fault
(b) Wrongly motivated
(c) worse than the other sideSo in the case of Islamic fundamentalism, despite all its violence, misogyny and the like, the democracies are portrayed by the Left as being even worse.
I think this is partly due to the influence of the Cold War. The “peace movement” and much of the political Left were influenced and built up by Soviet spies, as a weapon against the West. The Communist bloc has died, but the self-sustaining weapon it created lives on and continues to function in its appointed task: the destruction of Western morale and society.
Posted by Evil Pundit on 2007 06 03 at 06:24 PM • permalink
- Now this (H/T to Ed Driscoll ). Women-only proms, flying imams, religious litmus-test cab drivers: strangely, all these fronts being opened in Minnesota. How come?
- Australian feminist collective Minutes June 2007
Lyndagh: I would like to bring to the attention of this meeting the latest outrage to be propagated against the womenhood of Australia.
Sandii: Don’t tell me John Howard has slashed the staff numbers at the Office for the Status of Women below 70 again?
Lyndagh: No, no, no, although this remains a key area of concern.
Cloeda: Do you mean the continued refusal of patriarchal Swans management to provide vegetarian alternatives, or stand-up toilet facilities for females at Swans games?
Lyndagh: Another big one, Cloeda, but this is a new one. I am talking about the issue of FGM in Australia.
Tamaara: You mean the abhorrent practice of cutting up little girls, causing pain, deaths, sexual enslavement and infertility?
Lyndagh: No, no no, Tammie. This is the cultural practice comparable to cosmetic surgery known as FGM – I know you’re new here, but please show a little cultural awareness while you are in this space. It would be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using.
Tamaara: I will find out some more for the next meeting if you like.
Lyndagh: I think further discussion along those lines would be inappropriate, Tamaara, as it would serve no useful purpose. Tamaara, please try to stay on topic.
Tamaara: Sorry, Lyndagh, I’m here to learn. So what’s the outrage?
Lyndagh: The outrage is that people in the Right seem to care. For years and years it has been us and only us pretending to care and now they are muscling in on our territory. Righties, for example, seem to care about the rights of Pakistani and Afghani women.
Sandii: Oooh, fingers down throat – I bet it’s Tim Blair and his attack dogs.
Lyndagh: Got it in one Sands. And the language directed at us has been frightful!
Cloeda: Bad language directed at us! That would be highly inappropriate! This is an outrage, Lyndagh. Let’s call the Office for the Status of Women and tell them about inappropriate behaviour towards women!
Lyndagh: Right you are, Cloester. It is us and only us that will decide on the cutting of little girls and the time of their cutting.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 03 at 06:40 PM • permalink
- Hey 1.6Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 03 at 06:45 PM • permalink
- In 2005, I was at a lecture in New York by an American black female anthropologist, who’d been working in Africa with semi-remote tribes.
Responding to a question from the floor about female genital mutilation, she announced that it was not up to “white, Western women” to question African cultural practices. Besides, she said, the young tribal women look forward to the ceremony.
- The psuedo intellectual-wankerstocracy over at Lav Paper make me shake my head in disbelief. They raise an issue, make glib ‘haw haw’ statements about it and take cover when there is reasoned debate. Despite sneering at us Blairites, it seems we can hold our own in debate, using facts. The LP response? Shut the thread down because someone on a different site called Kimmy, gasp, I don’t know if I can sayit, ‘Little’. There, I said it, I’m sorry. Funny coming from the lot who have called Howard ‘Little Johnny’ for years and thought it a real hoot.
Kim ain’t little,
she’s a big fucking lezzo.
- Hmmmm.
… and wants to engage in a genuine debate about the best way to address FGM without descending into a political stoush or vulgar abuse, then they’re welcome to email me …
FGM? FGM??!!!
It’s not some stupid acronym you bloody ass.
It’s a screaming little girl being held down by her female relatives while someone wields a piece of broken glass on her.
Lefties. Satan’s joke on humanity.
Posted by memomachine on 2007 06 03 at 07:59 PM • permalink
- The left’s tolerance of the barbarism of Islam has nought to do with political correctness. That is simply a politically correct excuse. Communism might be dead and buried but the left still hasn’t lost its desire to destroy the US, capitalism and Christianity. And it sees Islam as the weapon to do this, even it means their own destruction.
There are a lot of sad people on the left, people who spent their youth debating the revolution that never came when others kids were having lots of fun.
- Dunno about Oz, but in the States we have these “Free Tibet” bumper stickers, which proliferate n places like the Bay Area, Seattle, Ann Arbor and the like. Some years back I noticed that there was an 80% overlap with “No War in Iraq” stickers and I used to wonder why Tibet deserved freedom, but not Iraq.
Then I realized that I was reading the stickers wrong. They don’t use “free” as a verb.
And as to having one’s impressions colored (sorry “coloured”) by one’s experiences, I understand Frederick Douglass had the same kinds of issues concerning slavery. For whatever bizarre reason he thought having been a slave gave him a right to criticize the institution of slavery. Were he alive to day he’d be sneered at by the NYC editorial page as “Manichean.”
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 06 03 at 08:10 PM • permalink
- Shamelessly similar to others over the past two days.
Scene: Mojo-Androcovic-Mathers Advertising agency (Sydney).
A meeting is being held by Will ‘Willo’ Wilson the head of the agency and some ‘ethnic’ clients.
Willo: Maaate good to see you both, beer, wine? Something stronger?
Mufti: (shoots a very dark look)
Translator: No, erm, laughs awkwardly, we’re off the wagon, you know, had a huge night the other day and whoo.
Mufti: Bismillah, mukwash, yukkatash.
Translator; (to Mufti, hissing) I know, I know, let me do this ok?
Willo: Well, it appears you lads have an image problem, and we’ve come up with a few ideas.
We canvassed a few feminists, you know, the sort that your lot sorted out a long time ago. Anyway, we got this focus group together and roughly the results were that they would not oppose clit cutting oh sorry (uses rabbit ears) “FGM”.
Anyway, it would appear that they are in a bind, they are not keen on “FGM” but don’t want to be seen as racists.
Translator: So?
Willo: So you guys win. (to Mufti) You are going to need to change your name, something a little more Aussie, how about ‘Mozza’? Next, we hype up the racist bit with the campaign “Who are we to judge” followed by “What a flap about nothing”.
Mufti: This is truly blessed news.
Willo: Maaate, by the time we’re finished, Aussies will be lining up to give their own daughters the chop, laughs.
Translator and Mufti: Excellent.
- The practice of burning widows on their husband’s pyre in India was also defended as a cultural tradition. The Governor of the day (British of course) said his cultural tradition was to hang any man who burnt a woman alive. He said he would build his gallows next to their pyres and if they followed their tradition, he would follow his. Maybe something of this order might be good for those who practise or even defend female genital mutilation: they should be punished the same as anyone else who assaults children.
- I criticise you; you demonise me.
The perfect firewall verb for the close-minded.
The knotted agonies of delusion and evasive nonsense at LP were something to behold. Discovered that they have their own turf war with the Eustonistas. ‘They’ don’t even know who ‘they’ are anymore. Not so hard to ‘demonise’ an opponent who doesn’t have a hand free because the other is round his comrade’s throat. Delivered one comment and left them to it!
#35 The Communist bloc has died
Nope, they just want us to think it did.
Now the commies have Islam and Gerbil Worming on their team… so there :P.And, thanks to the commies infiltrating our media and school system, (while we were all too busy just getting on with our lives) they also have lots and lots of good little Bolsheviks like Kim on their team to sow discord and divide us; effectively paralyzing us.
You gotta hand it to the commies – when it comes to utter, utter, bastard cunning and malevolence – they rule.
Russians are damned good chess players.Now, watch what Russia and China do.
- “It would also be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using.” quoth Kimmie the Dhimmi, excusing the mutilation of little girls.
A hail of gunfire directed at the perpetrators does it for me.
Your mileage may vary.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 06 03 at 10:12 PM • permalink
- The only argument made at LP that is up for debate is whether FGM is cultural or religious. Kizzie, a Muslim female blogger from the Sudan sent me this note. She is in a better position than most of us to comment,
Hello pommygrante,
In Islam if a woman is not sexually satisfied from her husband, she has the right to divorce him ( n vice versa ofcourse).
The type of FGM practiced most in Somalia is infibulation, it is the most severe form of female circumcision!
Infibulation means the removal of the external genitalia.
keep in mind, that the infibulation is called the “pharaonic circumcision” because it is believed that the pharaohs practiced it. hint hint: Islam didn’t exist back in the pharoahs days!
Anyways, infibulation means that there is no sexual pleasure whatsoever, so the woman is never sexually satisfied. In the Quran, sexual satisfaction for both men and women was emphasized on in some verses.
My point is it is NOT religious it is cultural.
Let me explain why its cultural…
In some countries virginity is very important and it is assumed that fgm controls a womans sexuality . In other words, maintain a womans virginity until she gets married.
btw: After infibulation, the labia majora are held together using stitching so when a girl gets married she must undergo reverse infibulation meaning “the husband uses a knife”
Sudan was the first country to outlaw fgm but it is still prevelant because the law is not properly enforced.
Last year, a meeting was held at azhar university( the top islamic uni in this part of the world) and they finally banned fgm from all muslim socieities and they classifyied it as a “Crime” but sadly, laws are not properly enforced here!
Do you understand why it is not religious its cultural?Posted by pommygranate on 2007 06 03 at 10:21 PM • permalink
- In the rock-scissors-paper hierarchy of the modern left, sensitivity to Islam trumps clitoral scissors every time.
Tim, I absolutely LOVE that sentence. Perfect way of describing them.
<i>They’ll happily demonise conservative politicians over industrial relations laws – a preferred description is “brutal” – but show them genuine brutality and this bunch of pikers suddenly wants to be all “ethical” and “pragmatic”.</i>
I can tell you as a former anthropology student, this is what these multi-culti pukes call “being objective and anthropological” – as if that one single course in Cultural Anthro they had to take for their sociology degree qualified them to become Insta-Ethnographers. Its people like this that make me want to tear up my diploma and send it back to my professors plus venom.
Yay for Nilknarf (and MM)!! Glad you went into the Dark Pits!!
Posted by Sharon_Ferguson on 2007 06 03 at 10:47 PM • permalink
- I’ll post this in two parts. First note that the link does not work – that particular board has changed to a new format and so I can’t access it any more. Glad I saved this particular tidbit.
http://www.kr-hcy.org/index.php?showtopic=2584The filth deweling infidels have not spared anything except tried to misrepresent it by making good looking like bad and filth looking pure.
If you remember their attacks against male circumcission and how much they were opposed to it until they learned the medical benefits behind it. And now some western countries recommend male circumcision to avoid many infectious diseases.
But what about female circumcision? What are the medical benefits behind it?
QUOTE
Question:Could you explain me what is the medical benefit of girl’s circumcision?.Answer:Praise be to Allaah.
Just as Allaah has created mankind, He has also guided them that which is best suited to their interests in this world and in the Hereafter, so He sent them Messengers and revealed Books to guide mankind to what is good and urge them to follow it, and to teach them what is evil and warn them against it.Islam may enjoin or forbid something and the people – or most of them – may not be able to see the wisdom behind this command or prohibition. In that case we are obliged to obey the command or heed the prohibition and to have certain faith that the laws of Allaah are all good, even if we cannot see the wisdom behind them.
Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, as is indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, and trimming the moustache.” narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257).
Undoubtedly with regard to the Sunnahs of the fitrah, some of the wisdom behind them is obvious, and that includes circumcision. There are clear benefits to it which we should pay attention to and understand the wisdom behind it.
In the answer to question no. 9412 we have discussed circumcision, how it is to be done and the ruling on it. In the answer to question no. 7073 we have explained the health and shar’i benefits of circumcision for males.
Circumcision is prescribed for both males and females. The correct view is that circumcision is obligatory for males and that it is one of the symbols of Islam, and that circumcision of women is mustahabb but not obligatory.
There are reports in the Sunnah which indicate that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam. In Madeenah there was a woman who circumcised women and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.
Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:
The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.
Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.
Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.
Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.
Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.
Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:
Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves.
From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 06 03 at 10:52 PM • permalink
- #56
Do you understand why it is not religious its cultural?
Yes, it is cultural and through adoption by Islam it also becomes religious.
One can easily understand how it has been adopted by Islam.
Islam is about power and control.
Islam must dominate and not be dominated.How I laugh at the thought of some Muselman, in the act of coitus, being turned into a mere spectator, in thrall of his lovers sexual climax, her legs wrapped about his throat, choking him.
And on leaving bed, the thought entering that Musilman’s head, “What better way to control a woman’s sexual desire and pleasure than by removing the focal point of that pleasure.. by removing the clitoris?”.So, FGM becomes the perfect expression of
misogynist, always-must-be-dominant, Islam.
- part two.
The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):
For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.
Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:
It takes away excessive libido from women
It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.
It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections
It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.
In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:
With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (http://www.islam-qa.com)
So from all this, I think it’s safe to say that this is purely a cultural practice and not a religious requirement at all.
Yeah, right.
As for how this should be dealt with in our country? Easy. Practitioners should be jailed within the general population with a tattoo on their forehead that says “kiddy cutter” and in a cell with a big bloke called Bubba.
For female practitioners and enablers, no doubt they have suffered from this abomination themselves, but I’m all for stripping them and tarring and feathering them.
It is child abuse, it is against all the natural laws as well as most of man’s laws, so there should never be any clemency.
/rant.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 06 03 at 10:56 PM • permalink
- “In Islam if a woman is not sexually satisfied from her husband, she has the right to divorce him…”
Is the final decree issued before or after the honor killing?
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 03 at 11:00 PM • permalink
- “Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:”
“It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections”
Same deal with beheading and brain cancer.
The world would be a healthier place if only you fools would submit to Islam.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 03 at 11:09 PM • permalink
- Heh. Thanks Nilknarf – I think the only confusion I have now is who do we civilized people go after first? The Muslims who actually practice this? Or the juvenile creeps that make up the Leftist Feminazis?
It takes away excessive libido from women [who would otherwise be uninspired by the men that approach them anyway – we all know what these mo-fos look like most of the time!]
It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce [to elimate the actual necessity of hygiene that would actually do the job, because Muslim doctors shouldnt have to deal with the female reproductive system any more than they absolutely have to]
It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections [into one long agonizing experience – if you never deal with it, it doesnt reoccur!]
It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system [because what Muslim doctor wants to work his way past the urinary tract system to find out whats going on in the vagina? Note: see #3]
Posted by Sharon_Ferguson on 2007 06 03 at 11:10 PM • permalink
- And just for the record, in case you all missed it, female genital mutilation really, really pisses me off.
I know women who have been trying to get this issue in Oz noticed for decades, so it’s way past time we got a bit of action happening.
Grrrrr.
Must…get… chocolate…. need… to…. calm…. dooooowwwwnnnn…….
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 06 03 at 11:15 PM • permalink
- Hey, this girl just ticked me off (she said ‘no’ when I asked her to dance in the club). Can I legally apply to get her genitals mutilated? I’ll become a muslim if it will help grease the wheels.
(Just a joke! I want no woman’s genitals mutilated. Wow, it really crushes the humor quotient when it’s attached to a disclaimer, huh.)
- Entropy and Kae – of course it matters if its cultural or religious.
For example, the membership of the IRA was a culture issue of crime. It had nothing to do with the religion of Catholicism. It was vital that the British govt made this distinction. Otherwise Catholics would have been persecuted.
Because the IRA was treated as a cultural issue (they are just criminals), they were defeated.
FGM may be an Islamic issue or a cultural issue. I don’t claim to know enough about the subject. But i do think it’s important to find out.
Posted by pommygranate on 2007 06 04 at 12:58 AM • permalink
- #47, #54, been saying that for years. Glad to have some new recruits.
The real problem is that the guys on Nevskyy Prospekt used to have some control over the situation, and could execute a couple of doctrine shifts to get everybody back in line. Nowadays the system is running with no feedback and nobody at the wheel, so it’s spinning off into pure craziness.
Eventually it’ll all fly apart; the bearings are starting to squeal a bit as it is, and the vibration is getting awful. But don’t get your hopes up too high—there’s gonna be a lot of shrapnel flying around when the wheels finally come off.
Regards,
Ric
- I’m sick of hearing Muslims lying about FGM. FGM is an authentic teaching of Islam:
Tabari II:72 “Sarah swore to cut something off of Hagar. ‘I shall cut off her nose, I shall cut off her ear – but no, that would deform her. I will circumcise her instead.’ So she did that, and Hagar took a piece of cloth to wipe the blood away. For that reason women have been circumcised and have taken pieces of cloth down to today.”
Regardless of whether or not Muslims invented the vile practice, the point is that it is a part of the religion.
- Whether the filthy practice is cultural or religious practice is a moot point really; in the mess of islam, culture & religion are all bound up into one & this just another disingenuous method of passing blame away from the reason it is happening & doing nothing about it. One of those neat little logical knots they like to try & tie people up with. Let’s face it, if it was looked at as the best thing since sliced bread over here they’d be all over it claiming it as another islamic refinement courtesy of their queeran. Their poobahs all advise on it, so it’s fucking well religious. Same as their other filthy practices – the gutless shits pretend to disown them as soon as someone objects & they can’t mob them with 100’s of spittle flecked mohammedans & tear them limb from limb in the market place.Posted by stahlblume on 2007 06 04 at 01:55 AM • permalink
- And what in the queeran wasn’t already in existence before mo sat in a cave nibbling ratsack & pronouncing he’d seen god, & that god had told him that everyone had to give mo whatever he wanted, or even 100 years or so later when they wrote down the whole thing, throwing out the parts they didn’t want & adding others they did? Nothing, likely not even drinking camel’s piss to start one’s day. There’d have been plenty of murderous, thieving, psychotic, misogynistic Arab pedophiles before him.
And for that matter, how much of the queeran is actually religious versus cultural & ideological also? Fuck all your honour – the religious component would make a small pamphlet.
And these pricks know this deep down though they won’t admit it. They know that if they even do more than make some little noises about sexually mutilating women followed by a proviso it’s just the culture (& even that needs to be investigated), it’ll be the mohammedans that’ll be whinging they’re being persecuted, not the damned animists.
Posted by stahlblume on 2007 06 04 at 02:28 AM • permalink
- The usual morons just jump on any chich or fashionable cause of the day under the guise of “humanity” and “universal values.”
Orianna Fallaci coined the term “cicadas” to describe these morons.
And note their most moronic “cicada” like characteristic – their attempts to brush off any criticsm with crys of “Islamophobia” all whilst ranting that their free speech is being stifled with accussations of “anti-semitism”…
- If Kim and Crew don’t want to loudly denounce the ritual hacking off young girls’ genitalia, then what will they loudly denounce? What issue is repulsive enough to meet their stringent criteria? If THIS doesn’t knock any fence riders off their perches of indecisiveness, nothing will. And I agree with Kae, pommygranate. I don’t give a rat’s if it’s done for religion, tradition or any other reason. Sing me up for doing whatever it takes to stop it.
- #52
Unfortunately, in Kim’s world, suttee should have only be brought to an end through the action of local activists. That the cost may have been many, many more immolated widows matters not the least.
When it comes to female genital mutilation, the notion that someone can argue for anything less than an everything it takes position is obscene.
- Texas Bob has a good point there. I asked that at the Anal Rodeo. The answer from the lefties will be here any day now…
<crickets chirping>
Erm, any week now!
My personal feelings about this horror I have mentioned. This is one of those situations where immediate and liberal application of Rule .303 to the wannabe mutilator and the swine who organised it is the very best of all possible answers.
That response may not be multi-culti-nuanced enough for the LP crowd.
Dear Lord, self-stated female leftist feminists who are ambivalent on hacking up little girls genitals. How far they have sunk.
MarkL
canberra
- #86 87 Only mental masturbation stirs an intellectual. Actual physical abuse is only for little people to get worked up about.Posted by dean martin on 2007 06 04 at 05:54 AM • permalink
- Kim, at LP said, in reply to
nilk on 2 June 2007 at 2:21 pmlink to LP search for: Kim on 2 June 2007 at 2:30 pm
It’s not possible really to tell though if that procedure was medically necessary, nilk. I don’t know enough about the consequences of FGM to be able to say. It’s not indicated what the reason for it was, so you may (or may not) be jumping to conclusions that it was because of her “cultural heritage.
Kim is talking about FGM, after Nilk quoted information about it occurring in Australia and about women being admitted to hospital for confinement and management of infibulation complications after childbirth. Then they return to the hospital and have again been sewn up.
I was totally disgusted with Kim’s comment. Her ignorance is beyond belief.
- #92 You’re right. This is the core of the matter. Luvvies must maintain their moral superiority. To make common cause with conservatives is to admit that there are things that are more important than the Right vs. Left conflict. But their self image is tied up with this conflict to a far greater degree than is that of most of their opponents.
The luvvies do care about the downtrodden. But they care more about how caring about the downtrodden makes them feel about themselves and the kudos that they get for this from other luvvies.
They believe that their virtue, their kindness, benevolence and tolerance can win over any opponent except those from within their own culture. Those who have had the chance to listen to them and have rejected them are the truly damned.
Posted by Lloyd Flack on 2007 06 04 at 07:25 AM • permalink
- #59, 62, re genital mutilation reducing odour, the women of islam wouldn’t smell if they washed each day (which many of them in Europe seem not to do with any regularity). Girls are taught from the outset that “down below” is a no-touchy zone for them. Slicing and dicing the offending spot removes the temptation but not the odour.
- bring him to Bangkok where he can go through a sexual reassignment and then let him go through the genital mutilation and see how he likes it, and we wont use any anthestetic.Posted by artful-dodger on 2007 06 04 at 08:17 AM • permalink
- I assume Kim and her buddies will also agree with he Islamic position on abortion or at least not protest too loud about it.Posted by Torontosteve on 2007 06 04 at 08:43 AM • permalink
- #89 – MarkL, don’t you think it’s time we updated that rule? After all, it’s so last century. Can’t we at least move along to rule .308 (for those that like the old terminology).Posted by mr creosote on 2007 06 04 at 09:09 AM • permalink
- whew! I waded through this thread and Kim’s thread.
From what I can make out, the LP position is:-Sure, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been through a lot.
– it is wrong to make death threats against her
– “FGM” is wrong… having made those concessions, the LP crew believe (or assert) the following….
1) loud denunciations are unproductive- better to quietly give some bucks to women in oppressed countries (contrast to, say South Africa under apartheid)
2) Ali is wrong on certain policy ideas and should be loudly denounced;
3) FGM is a cultural phemonenon and we need to understand it, (while respectfully disagreeing with it and working to convince people of its wrongness)
4) FGM is sometimes medically necessary
5) there are some non-muslims that practice FGM, therefore the Muslim community should not be singled out
6) Conservatives like Ali, therefore it may be that she is being used to bolster racism
7) conservatives oppress illegal immigrants especially those arriving by boat. Therefore it is hypocritical to give support to someone who fled those countries, after showing so little compassion to others in the same situation;I coudn’t be bothered backing all this up with quotes and such, but I think this is a fair summary of the LP position.
Posted by daddy dave on 2007 06 04 at 10:39 AM • permalink
- Naturally, the other issue of the day at Lefty Provos is the Catholic Church, where we get terms like medieval thrown about. Clearly, blocking the ambitions of the half-a-dozen Australian women who want to become priests/priestesses is a far worse crime than subjecting millions of Somali women to servitude.
Of course when I decided the Christian life wasn’t for me, Cardinal Clancy didn’t put a fatwa out against me. I didn’t even need to leave the country.
And while Kimmie and the Super Dhimmi Friends can rail against the priests in their own culture, Ayaan Hirsi Ali just wanted the lesser freedom to ignore the clerics in hers.
Now, lets all call those who appose paid maternity leave ‘dark age monsters.’
- ENTERING FED-UP MODE
“FGM is an abhorrent practice, and I am very sorry that it was inflicted on Ali. But rather than preaching about allegedly universal values and some sort of right that “we” have to intervene…”—Lil Kimmie
Got news for you, twat. If I witness a little girl being tortured and mutilitated, not only do I have a right to intervene, I have a duty to do so.
Don’t tell me I have no right to intervene to put a stop to the torture and mutilation of little girls, you worthless piece of shit.
And, you’re right to put “we” in quotes because there never has been, isn’t now, and never will be ANY common ground between people like me and trash like you.
NOW EXITING FED-UP MODE
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 04 at 12:56 PM • permalink
FGM is also practiced by some Jews and Christians
If Kim Ill has links to some credible evidence for that, let her provide them. Otherwise, I call 100% pure, unadulterated, organic B_U_L_L_S_H_*_T on that statement!!!!
Posted by Mary in LA on 2007 06 04 at 02:57 PM • permalink
- #86 Texas Bob
If Kim and Crew don’t want to loudly denounce the ritual hacking off young girls’ genitalia, then what will they loudly denounce? What issue is repulsive enough to meet their stringent criteria?
The Catholic church and women priests (not that any of them are Catholic anyway);
The invasion of Iraq (not that the “insurgents” that slaughter Iraqis, kill schoolchildren, and bomb mosques are objectionable);
The slow response to Hurricane Katrina (even though most non-government aid came from conservatives);
Israel (but not the killing of Israelis)
Detention centres for illegal immigrants (but not people smuggling);
Gun ownership (but not genocide, such as against Kurds, Jews, or southern Darfur,- they ignore the fact that the one time genocide was attempted on an armed populace was Kosovo, and the victims held out long enough for the world to take action);
third world “exploitation” (ignoring that such exploitation led to the economic boom times in South Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong,… and now China and India);
global warming (even though they can’t agree what the effect will be, or when it will occur);
urban sprawl (because that’s where conservatives seem to live);
private transport (unless it’s your hero’s private jet, such as Al Gore);
the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay (although the reports of ill-treatment are inconsistent and many have been refuted, also they ignore the evil organization these prisoners signed up for);
the death penalty (but no objections when it is applied to Western journalists who are unlucky enough to be captured by “insurgents”);
McDonalds (because it represents western capitalism).…but not cutting up little girls.
You can’t fight everything you know.Posted by daddy dave on 2007 06 04 at 03:50 PM • permalink
- After having just reviewed Texas law on child abuse, I can say with confidence that any physician or hospital in Texas that encountered a child who had been FGMed would have to report it as child abuse to Child Protective Services within 48 hours or lose their license.
I am a little mystified by how participating in mutilating a child is not a crime in Australia.
- The internet brings up some references to “male and female circumcision practices amongst muslims, jews and christians”.
The circumcision practices amongst jews and christians almost certainly refers to male circumcision – and I think this is how the Kimster probably came to her conclusion that jews and christians also perform female circumcision.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 04 at 06:05 PM • permalink
- My bad – I have found a credible reference here to some minority Jewish and Christian circumcision in Africa – which is not to change in the slightest the fact that Kim’s argument is a crock.Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 04 at 06:10 PM • permalink
- Kim said of Ms. Ali: “too much coloured by her own experience”.
Kim said of herself: “which wouldn’t have arisen had people been reading for meaning and context”.
So, Ali’s real story doesn’t deserve to be viewed with the context that makes her comments all the more striking yet Kim, from the safety of her Brisbane squat scolds others for not putting her drivel in context?
Rag.
- The Left are vomit-inducing.Posted by Apparatchik on 2007 06 04 at 07:45 PM • permalink
- I am the Executive Director in Charge of Decision Making and Really Important Workshops Overseas at an NGO that supports female blogger mutilation (FBM); a digusting tribal practice in which low IQ leftist* female bloggers self implode on blogs and/or comments.
It’s time to end this once and for all. Say no to FBM. All support welcomed in our fight to save young girls like Kim. Unmarked cash in plain envelopes left at the foreign currency exchange counter at Hong Kong airport (all currencies accepted) are most useful in our fight to end this non-religious practice.
* Tautology alert
- Classic stuff from the Luvvie Flatus Providores:
Rather I see this thread as a reaction against a certain debased and obnoxious section of the Australian right which deliberately and dishonestly conflates cultural realism, which sees culture as deeply entrenched and difficult for people in general and actors external to the culture in particular to change and cultural relativism, which sees culture as above and beyond moral criticism.
It is these same people who like to get around judging their own and everyone else’s merit based on the conspicuousness of their denunciations of a range of (mostly) third world horrors.
As I write this Tim Blair is demonstration the paucity of this point of view by not denouncing his own pro-FGM commenters.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 05 at 06:14 PM • permalink
- #118 Margos
As I write this Tim Blair is demonstration the paucity of this point of view by not denouncing his own pro-FGM commenters.
Did the luvvie at Flatulence Proved actually provide a link? I don’t recall anyone here saying that FGM is good/acceptable, they’re all over at LP.
The first quoted para was obviously written by someone suffering verbal diarrhoea.
- Who needs satire, with these luvvies.
I like Murph’s comment at the top of the thread about beheadings.
Although in the luvvies’ defence, it’s not possible really to tell if that procedure is medically necessary. Also, I don’t know enough about the consequences of beheadings to be able to say.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 05 at 06:33 PM • permalink
A note I made to myself yesterday: “Any response from Kim will include comparison to other religions.” If female genital mutilation was practiced overwhelmingly by Jews and Christians – and I’m not convinced it is practiced by those groups in any significant number, if at all – you could bet your life Kim & Co. would make it a political and religious issue. She’ll remain quiet about it from now because it’s predominantly an Islamic issue. I’d be surprised if she ever wrote about it again.
Hear hear, Tim. However, she probably doesn’t know enough about FGM to make a decision of any kind.
Medical/health reasons for FGM? Give me a break.
- Another luvvie:
The harm comes in setting FGM up as a purely Muslim tradition, when the fact is that it is an ancient practise which conversions to (variously) Judaism, Christianity and Islam in the Horn of Africa…
And apparently not from people cutting up girls and the luvvies’ complicity?
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 05 at 08:14 PM • permalink
- Luvvie update – niice:
I don’t know of a single Muslim I’ve met who thinks that Hirsi Ali is anything other than a) extremely ignorant of Islam b) a tragic soul who is possibly mentally ill
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 06 05 at 08:20 PM • permalink
- “The harm comes in setting FGM up as a purely Muslim tradition, when the fact is that it is an ancient practise which conversions to (variously) Judaism, Christianity and Islam in the Horn of Africa…”
Uh huh.
The fact is is that it’s practiced pretty much everywhere where Islamic culture predominates, or in areas where there is heavy Islamic influence…and not anywhere else (with a couple of minor exceptions).
IOW, it’s basically a Muslim thing.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 06 06 at 04:15 AM • permalink
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Kim – 1932: It would be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against Stalin’s mass starvation of the Ukrainians are using.
Kim – 1941: It would be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against German concentration camps are using.
Kim – 1974: It would be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against Khmer Rouge genocide are using.
For leftists of Kim’s ilk, the primary enemy is always, and everywhere, ourselves.