Debate unsilenced

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Last updated on July 27th, 2017 at 06:41 am

“By far the most common and silliest debate about the war in Iraq,” writes Christopher Orlet, “is the old send-your-child-to-Iraq-or-shut-up sophism. This so-called line of reasoning maintains that a government only has the moral authority to commit troops to an armed conflict if its leaders first pack their own kids off to the front. No amount of common sense or intelligent rebuttal has silenced it.”

Well, of course not; it’s too common-sense and intelligent. Speaking of moral authority, when is Michael Moore going to join his beloved Iraqi minutemen instead of cheering them on from his armchair? The big fat chicken(and gravy)hawk.

Posted by Tim B. on 10/22/2005 at 10:33 AM
    1. Michael the Great is busy saving New Orleans right now.  After all, where else is he going to be able to order shrimp gumbo by the barrel?

      Posted by RebeccaH on 10/22 at 10:55 AM • permalink


    1. Orwell observed that if you are against those fighting fascism, you are pro-fascist. Simple enough even for the left to comprehend.

      Posted by Latino on 10/22 at 11:42 AM • permalink


    1. I recall reading an article, or a column, or maybe it was someone’s stream of conscious blatherings.  But anyway the writing mentioned research (hey, there’s a word for all of you), that showed that members of Congress had a markedly higher % of children in Iraq and Afghanistan than the American population at large.

      Which sort of shutted up the liberal screamers about the chicken hawks in Congress.  But now they’ve redirected their screams at commenters on conservative blogs.  But wait a minute, isn’t The Real JeffS in Kuwait right now?  (So he says.  As far as we know, he eating ding dongs in Mel-bun).

      So that probably gives us a good percentage.  Add in Richard McEnroe, who’s been spending time in the Gaza Strip (shifts body uneasily, ignores phone), that’s a fair percentage.

      Posted by wronwright on 10/22 at 12:12 PM • permalink


    1. It’s impossible to send your child to fight in Iraq. The Army doesn’t take children. Only adults can sign up. A parent can’t send an adult offspring because he has no authority to – slavery was abolished.

      Michael Moore pulled that “would you send your child to Iraq?” crap on O’Reilly and smirked his fat face off when O’Reilly tried to keep questioning him and Mikey just kept repeating it.

      Posted by Dave S. on 10/22 at 12:37 PM • permalink


    1. #4 Forgive me for being picky, but I believe the Australian Defence Force does take recruits in some categories at age 17, and, according to a little googling I’ve been doing, so do the US armed forces. So both armies actually do take children.

      That’s not to defend the ‘send-your-child-to-Iraq-or-shut-up’ position, which is the most bogus and stupid of all the anti-War arguments. Even if a 17yo can join up, I presume a parent can’t force them into uniform against their wishes!

      Posted by Lionel Mandrake on 10/22 at 02:19 PM • permalink


    1. Actually, Jabba was telling O’Reilly that we were sending our children off to die in Iraq. A much more emotional appeal than just sending off the little curtain climbers off to fight. I’m sure their milk moustaches were Hitlerian as they went off to die for a lie.

      In the political backwaters of NFL (footy to you Antipodeans) fora that I read, the non-football playing commenters fail to see the irony when they pull out the “you (or your children) haven’t fought so you can’t comment” BS.

      And then they wonder why we laugh oafishly.

      Posted by Some0Seppo on 10/22 at 03:27 PM • permalink


    1. So only surviving members of the Lincoln Brigade get to protest the war, right?

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 10/22 at 04:44 PM • permalink


    1. How about in Fahrenheit 911, where Moore spends the first ninety minutes establishing the wrongness, evilness, and nastiness of the Iraq war, and then takes to the streets as a ‘patriotic citizen’ to ask the congressmen whether they will ‘sign up to send their children to Iraq’.

      He doesn’t seem to realise his hypocrisy.

      Posted by TimT on 10/22 at 07:33 PM • permalink


    1. That reminds me, how did Lardo The Magnificent’s trip to the fat farm turn out?  Has anyone seen him lately to notice any difference?  Is he down to three time-zones, or four?

      Posted by Craig Mc on 10/22 at 10:04 PM • permalink


    1. The mistake most of the old lefties, such as you see in Code Pink and at anti-war rallies, make is that they seem assume that most members of the US Armed Forces are draftees or forced into it against their will.  The draft ended in – what – 1972, sadly for the “bring our boys home” types.  That’s a looong time ago.  All these new fellers are, hey, VOLUNTEERS.  Bless them.  I tried to volunteer but was told I was too old.

      A lot of them, like “Saint” Cindy Sheehan’s son, re-enlisted to go to Iraq because they thought they were doing some good.  And they are.

      #5 Lionel: when I was serving during the Vietnam War, my experience was that 17 year olds could join but were not sent to the war zone.  They were retained in the US and tended to gain the junior ranks rather quickly.

      Let me tell you what a pleasure it was to have a 17 year old Private First Class in charge of a working detail when you are a 20 year old new recruit.  That doesn’t sound like much difference but it is like having an immature high school junior (year 11) in charge of older people, some of whom have been to college and had responsible jobs in “the real world”.  It brought the word “punk”, among others, to one’s lips rather readily.  Ah, the good old days.

      Michael moore has the right to say anything he likes, just as we have the right to ignore him.  I thought the ignoring was going quite well lately.  Is he rearing his ugly head again?

      Posted by Winger on 10/22 at 11:34 PM • permalink


    1. I thought civilian control of the military was a good thing, Michael.

      Posted by Assistant Village Idiot on 10/23 at 12:58 AM • permalink


    1. Another variation of this stupid meme is that one can’t support the war unless one is in the military (like what that idiot “timmys still a wingnut” tried to pull on blogstrop).

      I suspect that all of these stupid memes are popular with leftards because they establish the grounds for their (mistaken) belief that said leftards are not pro-fascist when they are against those that fight fascism.


      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 10/23 at 03:29 AM • permalink


    1. On “children” enlisting….

      Last I heard, by US law and/or DoD regulations, anyone under 17 in the military can’t handle a weapon or drive a vehicle, except in boot camp.  Once assigned to a unit, they can’t do much.

      This was a real problem, and not just for the reasons that Winger correctly pointed out.

      Currently, most underage enlistments put the recruits through boot camp, generally between their junior and senior year of high school.  They hit their advance training after high school graduation (a HS diploma or GED is required to enlist), when they are 18 or close to it.

      This is for the US Army, I think.  I can’t say about the other services, nor about the Royal Australian Army.

      PS to wronwright:  Gawd, I wish I was in Mel-bun (where the heck is that?), although I wouldn’t be eating these ding dongs.  I redeploy in a few weeks, I am happy to report.

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 10/23 at 03:39 AM • permalink


    1. Ahem….a minor correction:

      Last I heard, by US law and/or DoD regulations, anyone under 18 in the military can’t handle a weapon or drive a vehicle, except in boot camp.  Once assigned to a unit, they can’t do much. 

      Sorry!  🙁

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 10/23 at 04:41 AM • permalink


    1. Spent 4 years fighting “refugees” in Oz detention centres.
      I demand all lefty refugee advocates do the same or shut up.
      Ha!!! Thats fun
      I know why they do it now, I get a proud swelling in my “self rightousness” gland (ladies dont have one)

      Posted by thefrollickingmole on 10/23 at 06:44 AM • permalink


    1. #14 JeffS, there is a shop in Melbun that specialises in American goodies, so you shouldn’t have any probs getting your paws on some Ding Dongs.

      One of my mates over in the States (he’s a naval reservist) sends me care packages every now and then. One time it was several kilos of Reeces Pieces, butter cups and the like. It took me a while, but I did eventually grow sick of peanut butter M&Ms. I’ve got to send him a nice bottle of white for his birthday, and a few packets of tim tams.

      frollickingmole, would love to hear more of what went on in the detention centres as opposed to what was said to have gone down.

      Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 10/23 at 08:26 AM • permalink


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