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Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 01:11 pm
What would Muhammad do?
If the Prophet Muhammad himself were to see his image mocked by the European press, he would not react with any of the destruction, threats or vitriol currently rocking parts of the Islamic world.
“If you read the Koran, there is an incident in the life of the Prophet when he and his companions were being abused and persecuted,” said Dr. Husein Khimjee who teaches world religions and the history of Islam at McMaster and Sir Wilfrid Laurier universities.
“The injunction in the Koran is very clear—to be forgiving and to show compassion and to continue enjoining good,” the professor said.
That injunction is apparently waived in the case of cartoons. An Iranian cartoonist, now resident in Toronto, faced calls for his execution after drawing a crocodile with a name that rhymed with the name of an Iranian cleric:
“I denied any similarities between the crocodile and the cleric,” said Nik Kowsar, who now works for a news agency he prefers not to name. “But they were more powerful so I went to prison.”
Prison is the least of the problems facing Islam’s cartoon-publishing enemies:
Among demonstrations yesterday, 500 protesters gathered outside the Danish Embassy in West London after a two-hour march. Amid chants of “Denmark go to hell” and “Bomb, bomb Denmark”, protesters called for a jihad, or holy war.
Abu Ibrahwm, 26, of Luton, said: “The only solution is for those responsible to be killed. In Islam, the one who insults the messenger should be killed.”
Protesters yelled: “Denmark watch your back” and “You’ll pay with your blood”. Banners read: “Europe you will pay, your 9/11 is on its way”.
In Pakistan a Danish flag was burned at a demonstration in Lahore and there were other rallies in Islamabad and Karachi President Gen Pervez Musharraf said: “I have been hurt, grieved and I am angry.”
In Jakarta, Indonesia, more than 150 Muslims stormed a building housing the Danish Embassy and tore down and burned the country’s white and red flag.
About 500 Bangladeshis protested in their capital Dhaka after prayers, chanting: “Apologise to Muslims!”
In Gaza, Palestine, militants threw a pipe bomb at a French cultural centre and shot at the building.
Thousands of Palestinian refugees marched through the streets of their camps in Lebanon, burning flags and urging Osama bin Laden to avenge Mohammad.
In the occupied West Bank city of Tulkarm, more than 10,000 Palestinians burned Danish cheese.
I’m sure that’s a grievous insult in Denmark. These cheese-burners will face calls for beheading. The Age runs a report by a uniquely-named correspondent; and, in the New York Times:
The Bush administration offered the protesters support, saying of the cartoons, “We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.”
For once, the White House and the press are singing the same song:
Major American newspapers, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times and The Chicago Tribune, did not publish the caricatures. Representatives said the story could be told effectively without publishing images that many would find offensive …
Most television news executives made similar decisions. On Friday CNN ran a disguised version of a cartoon, and on an NBC News program on Thursday, the camera shot depicted only a fragment of the full cartoon. CBS banned the broadcast of the cartoons across the network, said Kelli Edwards, a spokeswoman for CBS News.
They won’t publish cartoons, but they will run anything they can get out of Abu Ghraib. Both sets of images provoke Islamic anger; note how the media behaves when that anger is directed at them. Meanwhile, the Danish Cartoon Twelve are in hiding:
A spokesman for the cartoonists said: “They are in hiding around Denmark. Some of them are really, really scared. They don’t want to see the pictures reprinted all over the world. We couldn’t stop it. We tried, but we couldn’t.”
Not unexpectedly, Michael Leunig misses the chance of a lifetime to stand up for his traumatised fellow scribblers.
UPDATE. Cartoons (again) here. Useful analysis of how this situation came to be here.
- Seems strange that ‘Freedom Of Speech’ is entitled to these thugs to threaten peoples (Nations) with beheading, and execution etc, but dare not make a political comment about Islam!
Irony? or duplicity?
Posted by WeekByWeek on 2006 02 04 at 05:39 AM • permalink
- #1 this grassroots movement is backed by many of Australia’s intellectual and artistic heavyweights.
Haha ah ah ahha I think I just blew a pooper valve laughing at that line.
I vote for John Howard and I mock him. In a daggy uncle type of way, and I think Mr O’Neils wish to be locked up in prison probably reveals a bit more about his gender confusion issues than his bravery.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 04 at 05:42 AM • permalink
- War is as old as man. Standover tactics ditto. Whether you are dealing with Genghis Khan or the Mafia, or nowadays, anachronistic islamo-fascists, you have a problem. If you have no stomach for a fight, you make arrangements – they may not be to your liking, in fact they may really stink. If your country or group of countries is paralysed by what Aunt Maude or the PC left (still influential in the media despite some exceptions) might say about being cruel to foreigners or rodeo animals, you are stuffed.
In one generation our highly evolved and, admittedly, often licentious but at the same time rather wussie societies appear to have lost what it takes to win. The ability to be mean bastards when required. Our western legal system has become a parody when a known hijacker implicated in 9/11 cannot be successfully dealt with, along with others known to be bent on our destruction. Many need to wake up before it is too late.
- I guess New Zealand will be the next target as a New Zealand paper, the Dominion Post, published the caricatures today. The editor explains the reasons for publishing and then the paper follows it up with an editorial on free speech. The editorial (read the whole thing) says:
The Muslim case is not helped by the hypocrisy when it comes to respecting the religious values of others. No doubt many fundamentalist Christian Americans find it deeply offensive for their country to be constantly labelled the Great Satan.
And, as the German newspaper Die Welt pointed out when it published one of the cartoons, “when Syrian television showed drama documentaries in prime time depicting rabbis as cannibals, the imams were quiet”.
There have been earlier cultural confrontations between the West and a resurgent Islam, beginning with the death sentence pronounced in 1989 on author Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, and including the murder in 2004 of Dutch film-maker Theo van Gogh after he made a film dealing with violence against Islamic women.
They are confrontations the West cannot afford to lose. The right to freedom of speech is a precious one that has to be defended.
I wonder if any Australian media publication will be brave enough to publish the images. I mean even even BBC TV have shown the cartoons so, what is holding the ABC back?
- Re: #1,
Funny how these types always stand up to liberal democracies to fight for their freedoms, particularly funny in this case, because while they’re vocal when it comes to anti-sedition laws, you can bet your life they won’t say a word when their freedom of speech is compromised by Islam’s vicious threats!
Not a word about Theo Van Gogh!
They’re the “intellectual and artistic” equivalent of a Donna Mulhearn, they only stand up if it’s safe and fashionable!COWARDS!
- Further proof that the people in the Middle East can’t handle democracy, not even the evangelical American Christians would start a riot if something like this occurred, say with a cartoon about Jesus. Mixing freedom of the press with the Arabic, not Islamic, culture is like mixing chorine and brake fluid.
- Michelle Malkin has a list of blogs that have the pictures.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 04 at 06:49 AM • permalink
- I suspect that Dr. Husein Khimjee – who teaches world religions and the history of Islam at McMaster and Sir Wilfrid Laurier universities – is being somewhat disingenuous. Mohammed is known to have ordered poets killed if they didn’t show proper respect. I know of Ka’b who was killed while M. was consolidating his hold on Medina, and there was also a poetess (I believe, whose name escapes me) who was assassinated for insulting him after he conquered Mecca.
Generally speaking, the live-and-let-live, why-can’t-we-all-just-get-along parts of the Koran are datable to the period when M. didn’t have the power to kill his enemies but they had the power to kill him. I wonder what episode the good professor is referring to?
- “Cheese Burned” … maybe your headline should’ve been “Who Moved My Mohammed”
Unfortunately, western secular society still allows organisations to exist on the basis of beliefs. But when the beliefs undermine our society, what do we do? Expose it through reasoned argument and cartoons is one way. But is it working?
Moving on without answering the last paragraph, beliefs are just that, unscientific and akin to making it up as you go along. Science makes it up and then allows itself to disprove itself, something that beliefs and religion do not. It’s called falsification. That’s the big difference. Religions don’t allow themselves to be falsified.
So when you argue using logic against a religious position, you’re pushing shit uphill. I have posted a few comments to a forum called Evolution and it has still been going since March 2005. Eat your heart out Tim.
Those arguments reflect a difference like apples and oranges. And I believe the same applies to the arguments (or lack of) being put now about the current crises. Our use of logic doesn’t hit it. In baseball, it’s called a foul.
- In solidarity, I rented “Life of Brian” last night and had crackers with a nice dill Havarti.
Spectator I: I think it was “Blessed are the cheesemakers”.
Mrs. Gregory: Aha, what’s so special about the cheesemakers?
Gregory: Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
- Is it just me, or does anyone else find these “cartoons” the lamest pile of drivel this side of the esteemed Leunig?
They don’t seem to be remotely funny, topical, well drawn, or even make much sense, yet the loony slammers are carrying on as if it was the end of the world.
Talk about ratbags.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 02 04 at 09:47 AM • permalink
- I don’t think you can hang out the State Department to dry on this one. We’ve just spent nearly 300 billion dollars and the precious lives of almost 2500 of our best and brightest to bring freedom and liberty to 50,000,000 muslims in Afganistan and Iraq. The State Dept as well as the president can’t be denouncing Islam over this. OTOH why are the MSM in the States coddling the islamonazis? Why aren’t they cheerleading for the Danes and other of their European buddies who are publishing these cartoons? Why aren’t they taking the imams to task? That’s the real shame here.
- THe advancement of Islam towards the destruction,enslavement and domination of our western society began when we started apologising and blaming ourselves for the successes of our human achievements. The Shame so many of us feel for our society is the flood gates by which Islam will conquer us. Leftism is the open wound through which the Islamic virus spreads.
When we begin to start to believe that an evil cult with a long history of savagery and opprssion might be equal or better than our own Judeo-christian values, we open the door to darkness.
The cartoon episode is a watershed. If we back down now we are on the road to perdition. the Islamists know this and are testing our resolve to defend ourselves. We must not back down!
Islamist believe that their hideous beliefs outrank totally all our western values, They also believe that ALL their actions against us are justified, they have no self doubts or guilt about the slaughters they have committed.
Until we REALLY believe in ourselves, we will continue to allow them to make inroads, inroads which have already led to the unbelievable state of events reached in a mere thirty years .
- Farsicle in a religion where every fifth person is called mohammed including some well know mass-murderers that they take such offence to a cartoon.
They want us to understand that they hold Mohammed dear and have total disrespect for Freedom of Speech which defines us.
The lines have been drawn and the meek will submit.
Major American newspapers, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times and The Chicago Tribune, did not publish the caricatures. Representatives said the story could be told effectively without publishing images that many would find offensive …—excerpt from newspaper article
They won’t publish cartoons, but they will run anything they can get out of Abu Ghraib. Both sets of images provoke Islamic anger; note how the media behaves when that anger is directed at them.—Tim Blair
Think about that. MSM can tell a story without showing offensive photos over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. They’ve said just that. But they still published the Abu Graib photos constantly.
Do they have any sense of their own hypocrisy?
Posted by wronwright on 2006 02 04 at 10:25 AM • permalink
Unfortunately, western secular society still allows organisations to exist on the basis of beliefs.
You’re right, Stevo. We should lock up people with wrong beliefs. I say we start with those persons who believe that mayonnaise is an edible food.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 04 at 10:31 AM • permalink
- I am also disgusted that none of the American Mainstream press has shown solidarity with the Danish press, yet often print insulting cartoons about Abu Ghraib and GWB. This is typical of the double standards of pubs such as the NYT.
They won’t publish the cartoons but they will run anything they can on ABU GHRAIB or GITMO, however tenious, to provoke the Anger of Muslims necause the resulting anger is directed at their government BUT NOT AT THE NEWSPAPER ITSELF!
- 13: “Generally speaking, the live-and-let-live, why-can’t-we-all-just-get-along parts of the Koran are datable to the period when M. didn’t have the power to kill his enemies but they had the power to kill him.”
An absolutely first-rate observation. This suggests very strongly that the notions of forgiveness and mercy, under Islam, are merely tactical considerations.
#24: (Congratulations, Wronwright, you’ve been promoted from #25) – For the MSM, their own hypocrisy is like an ominous, unshakeable cough: a thing they’re aware of, but try desperately to ignore.
- Andrea
I never said anything about locking up people. No, never. My context was on beliefs. Religion in Australia, which is based upon beliefs, is still endemic (popular) and is still a part of politics. My beef is that we allow organisations, in the name of religion, a say in how we are governed. Let’s separate them. Haven’t you got the same in the US?
- You’re right on target Tim. The MSM won’t show us cartoon images, but they show no self control in showing us, repeatedly, images of “abuse” from Abu Ghraib.
Then, again, the MSM refuses to re-run footage from 9/11 – that awful day when some typical Islamists, with their brittle self image, slammed fully loaded airliners into buildings while traveling at full speed.
Fortunately, there is the web where one can relive the despair so that we may never forget who’s been wronged.
See: http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html
and also: http://911.navexpress.com/11.htm.
May we never forget.
- I understand that the U.S. State Department has to tread lightly because of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot afford to alienate an already volatile population we’ve been trying to win over. Where the State Department went wrong is that they made their objections specific to Muslims instead of saying that ALL people have a right to have their religions respected. It would have avoided offense while at the same time gently reminding Muslims that maybe they need to be a little more circumspect themselves when it comes to showing respect.
As for the MSM, I have no clue as to how American journalists can be so blatantly hypocritical and cowardly and still look at themselves in the mirror.
- Those cartoons really are pretty lame. If no one had kicked up a fuss, they’d be long forgotten. Instead, massive uprisings, threats, and now they’re being published (or at least eagerly looked for) around the world. Congratulations, guys! You’ve managed to make the WHOLE WORLD aware of images that insult your Prophet!
- No, that’s not what you said, Stevo. I can’t read minds—if that’s what you meant then you should have said that in the first place.
By the way, the “separation” you are referring to in American governance is meant to forbid an establishment of a single religion as the “official” religion. There is no law against people forming political parties based on their religious beliefs, as you can see from this list here, and therefore trying to influence the direction of government. However, our tradition of distrusting overt religious influence in areas of secular life pretty much make these parties’ chance of having any influence on government rather small.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 04 at 11:27 AM • permalink
- ctchrmkr 31
“Then, again, the MSM refuses to re-run footage from 9/11 – that awful day when some typical Islamists, with their brittle self image, slammed fully loaded airliners into buildings while traveling at full speed. “
Typical? If those assholes were typical, then it’s sure hard to explain how the rest of them live to such ripe old ages.
But you raise a damn good point.
There IS some footage from 9/11 that would be worth seeing, in heavy rotation, imho. It was all shot on the West Bank, and there was dancing in it.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 04 at 11:38 AM • permalink
- mmmmm mayonaisse …Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 04 at 11:39 AM • permalink
- I wonder what stage in the life of Muhummad the abuse and persecution took place? At the start or the end of his personal crusade?
Nearing the end of his life, when Islam was on the offensive and slaughtering non-Muslims left right and centre in pursuit of its conquests, I wonder if Muhummad and his entourage would bear such abuse and persecution in such a meek manner.
Posted by James Waterton on 2006 02 04 at 12:06 PM • permalink
- Pedro the Ignorant – fully agree. The cartoons are crap, and I’ve said as much previously. However, if the Muslims want to make a stand over them, then fine, they’re a convenient Trojan horse. Their quality becomes immaterial.Posted by James Waterton on 2006 02 04 at 12:09 PM • permalink
- Now Muslim stores in Toronto are boycotting Danish goods. I thought Canadian Muslims would know better.If they cannot differentiate between an independant press and the Danish Governemt and people who can.?Posted by Torontosteve on 2006 02 04 at 12:30 PM • permalink
- OT: Is anybody else having trouble commenting? I can’t get my comments to show up.Posted by Ted Schuerzinger on 2006 02 04 at 12:33 PM • permalink
- Sonetka:
I’d say some of the cartoons are lame. Some of them I thought were subversive, like Mohammed saying that they’ve run out of virgins. 🙂
Posted by Ted Schuerzinger on 2006 02 04 at 12:37 PM • permalink
- I guess you could say these Muslims aren’t too FONDUE those cartoons!Posted by Jim Treacher on 2006 02 04 at 12:39 PM • permalink
- Bravo #10 on your comment on the fool#1. Your local so-called “artists” (aka con-artists)are indeed cowards. They know they are in no physical danger from anyone in defying the Australiab sedition law; and no danger from the law itself since the Courts will draw out any procedure long enough for everyone to die of old age. And these cowards will get the reward of substantial publicity and uplift for their sick egos. But do you think for one minute they will stand by their ballyhooed principles, freedom of “artistic” expression, or their collegues in Denmark and elsewhere who are indeed in the way of real physical harm from the proponents of the Religion of Peace? Wouldn’t bet the farm on it, not even one chick-pea. Brave they are not. COWARDS all of them supported by leftoids like pukeypup, #1.
- Isn’t there a single person of global stature with the stones to call out this contrived tantrum for what it is?
The West is conned over and over at the same damned game. In any dispute, the West’s enemies know the drill—howl with indignation and grievance, crank up the faux-angry street protests, demand apologies and compensation, and threaten that worse is yet to come if amends are not made.
And I’m f**king sick of hearing that we have to do this or things will get out of hand, blah, blah. Bulls**t. That’s just intellectualized cowardice. They get away with it because they have the will to do so and we lack the will to stop them.
Enough.
- I noticed in the link Andrea gave- the ‘American Nazi Party’- scary stuff.
The description has this:
…blends left-wing economic socialism, right-wing social fascism and strong totalitarian sentiments.
Does anyone know if by ‘right-wing social fascism’ a non-individualist, organic view of society is being described?
I’d look into it myself, but I’d rather not have the American Nazi Party in my browser history…
It’s almost like it’s permissible to show their anger…
That, unfortunately, is the view of the MSM, the State Department, and most of Bush’s advisors. While we bend ourselves like pretzels to be fair and compassionate, the jihadis are continuing their all-out war, on every front, without limits or timetables or exit strategies.
Ralph Peters says it best.
- #14 Stevo “Unfortunately, western secular society still allows organisations[sic] to exist on the basis of beliefs” Excellent replies Andrea #25, #34. This sentence is mighty clear in its implication, which is not that people be locked up, as you interpreted it Andrea. It clearly implies that western secular society should not allow organizations to exist on the basis of beliefs. This implies Muslim type cleansing, so that only one set of (non-religious) beliefs remains. That has been tried,recall Hitler who, in the end not only ruthlessly suppressed religious beliefs, but ALL beliefs contrary to his.
I sympathize with your misinterpretation, Andrea, since it’s hard to tell what the vague rambling of #14 is all about.
- I suspect what Stevo meant (as he seems to be saying in his last reply) is that he wishes that these Muslim fanatics didn’t have such apparent influence on your country’s politicians and cultural elite. Unfortunately, there is no way to legislate spines into growing.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 04 at 01:04 PM • permalink
- Reuter’s report by Tom Perry (hat tip Lucianne): “Safaga, Egypt – Survivors of the Red Sea ferry disaster said its captain fled the burning ship by lifeboat and abandoned them to their fate, as hopes faded on Saturday of finding some 800 missing. Some passengers … said crew had told them not to worry about a fire below deck and even ordered them to take off lifejackets”. And the Muslim idiots rage over a cartoon!!
(BTW, The Israelis offered to send search craft which could have been at the scene in a flash. The Egyptians refused the help. And these idiots rage over cartoons
- #49,Andrea, I think your right, but Stevo’s point is not helpful in the present situation. We can moan and groan over the spineless nature of Western governments when it comes to confronting the Muslim monsters. But what is needed is just what is being done here at this blog, awakening the public to the danger confronting the West, and forcing the insipid and fearful politicians to act or be thrown out.
- Actually – upon closer viewing, two of them are amusingly prophetic. The last one appears to be critical of the whole exercise.Posted by James Waterton on 2006 02 04 at 01:28 PM • permalink
- Eugene of the Volokh Conspiracy has posted on what the State Department Official actually said.
Money quote from the State Department official:So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view. We may — like I said, we may not agree with those points of view, we may condemn those points of view but we respect and emphasize the importance that those individuals have the right to express those points of view.
Reuters of course mangles the whole thing and makes it sound much worse.
- They won’t publish cartoons, but they will run anything they can get out of Abu Ghraib. Both sets of images provoke Islamic anger; note how the media behaves when that anger is directed at them.
You’re right again, Tim. That’s it in a nutshell.
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2006 02 04 at 02:01 PM • permalink
- CNN reports from Damascus (4 Feb 06)
Cartoon row: Danish embassy ablaze
with a postcript: CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.
- I don’t ‘share the offense’ at all. Like many political cartoons, these are accurate, if uncomfortable (for some) commentary.
This whole manufactured ‘crisis’ reminds me of the way schoolyard bullies used to intimidate hapless weaker schoolmates by simply asking, “What’d you just say to me? Did I just hear you call me (insert insult)? Huh? Huh? You wanna get your ass kicked? Well, do ya?”
This was usually followed by a whiny denial or a tepid objection and/or the weaker student slinking away with his tail between his legs or getting his ass kicked.
But once in a while, somebody who didn’t want to take any more crap would beat the daylights out of the bully, or simply challenge him until he backed down—to the delight of other students who wouldn’t want anything to do with the guy who stood up until he’d actually won.
Sound familiar?
I’m off to the video store to rent ‘High Noon.’
- Stoop Davy Dave on #35
It’s difficult to generalize on life expectancy of people who live a “normal” lifestyle – some live to a ripe old age, some die early. Islamicists (I spelled it incorrectly above), to me, are the militants who pick up weapons and seek to do violence aganst coalition troops – I suspect their life expectancy is on the lower end of the spectrum. Normal, typical moslem homeowners who work in typical commercial or clerical jobs probably can expect to live longer provided (1) they don’t get blown up by their co-religionist fanatics and (2) they choose to use western medicine to cure illnesses, follow western inspired notions of nutrition and sanitary procedures, employ western appliances to provide comfort and preserve food, and adopt western ideas concerning healthy lifetime goals, i.e., exercise, good diet, regular medical checkups, etc. (Notice any pattern here? Something western in nature?).
So, if they want to boycott western products, let them also boycott western medicine and health practices. Give up their air conditioners and refrigerators. Deal with spoiled meat, sour milk, and outrageous rates of infant mortality. Go back to living in the 7th Century and see how long they last. Clearly, the increase in life expectancy they now enjoy was not the result of anything they invented or created or even thought.
And, that’s true whether they’re militant or not.
- Snoop
Neglected to mention the dancing on the West Bank. Forgot all about it.
But, we here in the USA don’t have to go that far to remember those “celebrations” – they were dancing in the streets of Brooklyn – within site of the dust cloud from what had earlier that day been the World Trade Center Towers.
Talk about savages dancing around a bonfire….
- #57 “CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam” Hell! They admitted they didn’t report Sadass H’s atrocities in Iraq, and other news, out of respect for Sadasses ability to kill their Iraqui camermen and throw their sorry asses out of Iraq. CNN is not a news organization, it’s the propoganda wing of the Palestinians and Al Jazz.
- CNN is not the worst, but it’s hard to tell which of the left wing lunatic MSM has fallen the lowest. The Washington Post ran a cartoon demeaning severely wounded USA soldiers and refuses to apologize in the name of its rights. They know they wont be touched and like the cowards cited in #1 by pukeypup, they can prim and prance in their self-glorification and shout Yah. Yah, Yah (or Haw, Haw, Haw, sorry snoopy)to their critiques “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never harm me”. But they cower before the the murderous Muslims and , hypocrites that they are, abandon their “rights” ‘cause they believe the Muslies will do more than break their bones. Of course, giving in to the Muslies guarentees that they Mulies will “break their bones”.
- I wish I subscribed to the WaPo so’s I could cancel it. (I only read online for Miss Manners and the advice columns.)
The WaPo had an editorial talking about how, if cartoons that mocked Jesus were published, Christians would protest and conservative politicians would bitch in DC.
But, you fucking asstards at the WaPo, Christianity is mocked pretty constantly around here, in movies, on the cover of the Rolling Stone, and etc., and I’ve yet to see thousands of Christians threatening a holy war, let alone burning cheese.
- Somebody over at Wretchard’s place described the difference between the sides in Europe quite accurately. One side sees ‘insult’ in cartoons as sufficient provocation for retributive violence, while the other sees the murder of its innocents (Theo Van Gogh, Beslan, Madrid, London) as insufficient grounds to march, much less retaliate.
Sad.
- Welch gives a peek behind the curtain at the LA Times editorial meetings. I think he’s suffering from a cold or something, too.Posted by Jim Treacher on 2006 02 04 at 04:20 PM • permalink
- Big Pharoah is just one of the ME blogs speaking for the voices of moderation in the Muslim world. Sistani deplored the cartoons, but also deployed violence and said
He referred to “misguided and oppressive” segments of the Muslim community and said their actions “projected a distorted and dark image of the faith of justice, love and brotherhood.”Though these cartoons were published in September 2005, now they become an issue. Even though this Danish Muslim Abu Laban of very doubtful repute did his best. He toured with a delegation whose purpose was to generate attacks on Denmark. He concocted and added 3 more cartons , like showing Mohammed with the face of a pig apparently.
see Gateway to counterterrorism.Does anyone know where this firestorm started to get legs. Have to wonder if it isn’t a political windfall, and they have played it for all it is worth, for the Good’ol Boys of Fatah. Now the young firebrands have other targets for their violence other than the corrupt leaders of Fatah. This adds to my suspicions.
“In one unusual twist, Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas leader, visited a Gaza church Thursday and promised protection to Christians after Fatah gunmen threatened to target churches as part of their protests. Zahar offered to dispatch gunmen from Hamas’ military wing, the Izzedine al Qassam Brigades, to guard the church. “
and
In Palestine, Hamas has called for a day of protest but said that Europeans should not be attacked. In Jerusalem, Sheikh Mohammad Hussein however was stirring the pot of violence. Is he the Hezbollah spiritual Leader?
- Time to petition the author of this blog!
Dear Tim Blair,
You are a rarity, a successful mainstream journalist and also the most powerful blogger in Australia. Your voice is unique, vital and far reaching.
We have yet to see a single prominent MSM vehicle publish the Jyllands Posten cartoons in Australia, nor indeed the wider Anglosphere with the exception of New Zealand of all places.
In light of your prominence and the crisis affecting the world at this time,
I ask that you post the Jyllands Posten cartoons on your blog, if not in the Bulletin.It would be quite understandable if you cannot do this, the risks to the life and career of those who dare to print the cartoons are quite high, seen most recently in the sacking of the editor of France Soir. If this is the reason for your hesitation, I then ask that you at least write an article in the Bulletin explaining why you could not print the cartoons.
If you cannot do this either then I am disappointed, and a little alarmed at the state of free speech in this country. Neverheless, I like many others would remain grateful and very much in support of your work both in the Bulletin and online.
sincerely,
Six Days.
- Cheese-Burning-Exploder-Monkeys!
BTW, regarding the cowardice of many journos (and activists in general) in the face of the C-B-E-M, and their “courage” in taking on Rumsfeld, Bush, etc, here’s a great joke that illuminates it…Q: Why do PETA members (animal rights ninnies) get so much more mad at people who wear fur than people who wear leather?
A: Because rich, matronly ladies have a very different reaction to them than motorcycle gangs.
- BTW, I just forced myself to click on the link to the Leunig cartoon (geez! how did this guy learn to draw in kindergarten, by penciling an outline around a gourd?!?). Far be it from me to advise one of your “national treasures”, and it’s a small point, but isn’t it the “Australian Wheat Board”? I wonder why he referred to the “Australian Wheat People”? I know, I know, he simply meant the folks at the Board, but the phrase momentarily put me in mind of the, er, rather unusual fauna ya’ll have down there; thought maybe there was a lost tribe of wheat-dwellers who worshipped combines (perhaps led by a Great White Chief who . . . who . . . listens to Bread. On his eight-track tape player). Hmmm. M’yes . . .
- The MSM are certainly cowards. The much mentioned Leunig I find far more offensive than the linked cartoons.
Which is an interesting point about the hypocrisy of the holy US MSM. These cartoons are all over the place on the web. However it seems that the Big Hypocrites think that the non-online US readership should not and would not be able to judge for themselves the offensiveness/satire of these cartoons. The internet literate are of course grownups.
That their reading public is meant to accept their judgement that these cartoons are beyond the pale, and that is what they are saying by refusing to publish, makes them as sure as the Muslim ideologues that they know better than the unwashed. Or as Stephen Richer says of Islam “maintain there is one religion that has a higher standard because of its self-perception over all others and can establish a global standard” thus does the MSM speak as if they believe there is one class that has higher understanding, because of it’s self perception, over the non-liberals and hence can establish a western standard.
The tyrannical Muslim demands that these cartoons must not be published have something interesting to say in itself. They still see communications as limited to the printed media. But then the MSM US still doesn’t seem to get it either
So though as Sistani has pointed out to them they remind the west of the yukky aspects of Islam, they also demonstrate just how non-modern they really are.Quote of the day on the Globalist.
Islam’s big mistake was to ban the printing press, which was banned by Ottoman decree in 1485. It would have been a sacrilege, flat earth clerics decided, to use the Arabic language in mechanical equipment.”
Arnaud de Borchgrave, Center for Strategic and International Studies
- You can leave a message for Leunig HERE . Be nice now 🙂Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 04 at 07:35 PM • permalink
- The muslims are just showing us they believe in “might is right”. They’re probably aware of the weak Christian protests against Piss Christ and Dung Madonna and see that as proof that Islam is the stronger religion and that one day they must prevail, reestablish the Caliphate etc etc. They won’t live to see the day but maybe their children will, so in the meantime keep on bombing…
- Heres a collumist from the Times sticking his fingers in his ears and going “LaLaLaLA”
Especialy telling is his wanting legislation to prevent upsetting the explodydopes
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-2025511,00.htmlPosted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 04 at 07:52 PM • permalink
- Let me not defend the MSM as much as say why the fact that the US is on the sidelines is a good thing.
Set aside the vunerability of our presence in the Gulf.
If all the hostility is directed at Europe, this is a hugely important scenario in getting that continent to understand deep in their hearts that they either stand up for Western Civilization, or they might literally find themselves cut off from their primary protector (the US), and left without the power to defend their way of life, their culture, and their very lives
How many American pixels have been burned telling France that the next time they are in trouble, we’ll spring for the popcorn? I think the US WOULD step up, but anything that lets Europe know that it’s time to step up to the plate, start smashing their deconstructionist Chomskyite dickwads in the head for their appalling philosophical selfishness, and understanding that adults have to pay for the consequences of their actions or lack thereof, is a good thing.
Eventually, the US will step up. But I am glad to see the wrath directed at Europe alone, NOT out of petulance or revenge or schaudenfreud, but because they HAVE to get a friggin’ clue what we are up against… NOW…. or the West as we know it will die.
It that is selfish, so be it.
- OT but scary:
Blogger is down ! .blogspot domain blogs that is, blogger itself is ok, as are Blogger blogs that redirect to other domains. Been like that for about an hour. No scheduled maintenance.
LGF is down too.
What is going on ?
Given recent cyber-attacks on the entire .dk domain space I am a little concerned.
- Was just trying LGF myself. You beat me to it.
Still its another sign of Mo’s girlymen spitting the dummy if they cant even handle internet sites ragging the ragheads.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 04 at 08:07 PM • permalink
- I read a fuller excerpt of the US State Dept.‘s reaction to this controversy and it’s certainly more nuanced and agreeable than portrayed in early press reports. (Quelle surprise!)
Gratuitous slams on religious people are usually oafish and infantile (see: Sinead O’Connor’s tearing up a photo of Pope JP II on US TV) and usually say more about the offender than the offended (see: Taliban destruction of ancient Buddahs).
Yes, the cartoons were mostly Leunig calibre shite; although I liked Mohammed w/eyes blacked out—clever if you know the prohibition and a comment on what the West refuses to acknowledge.
The war isn’t against Islam. Yet. And I honestly hope it doesn’t come to that. If it is to be a “War of Civilizations”, put me down for a ‘C note’ on the West.
- Re: #44,
Thanks Stats!
In defence of #1 Percypup, I’m 100% sure he was simply drawing attention to the absurdity of the situation created by these spineless artistic and intellectual buffoons in light of the real threat to free speech, that posed by intolerant Islam, a threat they dare not even acknowledge let alone confront.
- SteveGW: You are right; the prof is being disingenous, as Muslims are exhorted to be when “explaining” their faith to the kaffir. Early Islam, which the fundamentalists want all Muslims to recreate, was a cult of pillaging, plunder, and the ruthless murder or enslavement of perceived enemies. Insult Mohammed and you were dead. There are numerous accounts in the hadith of M’s followers murdering and beheading people who had turned against him or mocked him, and M praising them for doing so. The zealots of today are simply trying to revive the pure and, for those who reject it, deadly faith that Mohammed presided over.Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 02 04 at 08:16 PM • permalink
- #78: Mole,
With respect to LGF, you may be correct.
Sadly as regards Blogger the issue is more difficult. Blogger is owned by Google AFAIK, and Google are not exactly neocons. LGF’s issues with what Google will and will not post as valid news articles.We also know how strongly Google has supported freedom of speech and enquiry in China.
I wonder how Google will react to Denial of Service extortion with the demand that certain types of content be banned.
- Six Days,
Re posting the images at this site: I haven’t been able to post ANY images since the last upgrade. Which is why I’ve linked to the images instead.
Re running the images in The Bulletin: for various reasons it would be unwise to reveal in detail the contents of the next edition prior to publication.
- Re: #32,
I wholeheartedly agree RebeccaH.
I want the U.S. to stay right out of this. I don’t want this to become about them, because you can’t bet your life if they did let themselves become embroiled in this, the MSM would be on it holus-bolus and it would be all about the U.S. and the Europeans would be off the hook, yet again.
The U.S. have carried the can for far too long in this fight against militant Islam, let Europe burn this time!!
Then maybe they won’t be too quick to refer to this as Bush’s war on terror, or Washington’s war on terror, it’ll be theirs too…well and truly!
- Tim,
Linking does not count, but I do dearly hope that you are saying what I think you are saying re the next edition of the Bulletin, in which case I suggest that you be knighted, canonised and declared an official Aussie Legend.
In the meantime, there may be a breaking story re the collapse of the .blogspot domain over the last 2-3 hours (see post #77 above) Is this a Jihadi cyber attack like the one aimed at the .dk domain ?
You might want to investigate this.
- Re. #84
It is actually a masterstroke for the US to take a more pro-Islam position than the one Europe finds itself in, for once reflexive European anti-Americanism can move the Europeans into a sensible direction ! Once firmly there, supported by ample evidence of ROP extremism, violence and intolerance, and with a European MSM happy to display it (in the name of anti-Americanism among other things) there will be no turning back, Europe will see Eurabia for what it is and act accordingly. The US can then change their position in line with Europe’s. Everybody wins except the ROP.
- Without a good explanation, blogspot down is going to compound Google’s poor image as a friend of democracy. Yahoo – a communist collaborator – is even worse. May be an opening for a new web service company.
Probably a DOS attack though. Can’t be any possible benefit to Google for temporarily suspending the service.
- THIS is why the US needs to stay on the sidelines for a while…
BBC analysis….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4678220.stm
The row over the Danish cartoons would probably have remained a local dispute between some Muslims and a Danish newspaper had it not been for three factors:
—the rise of violent political Islam
**—America’s war on terror **
—modern transnational media.America’s war on terror is still largely perceived in the Arab world as a war on Islam – a perception reinforced by the fact that it is happening exclusively in Muslim countries, namely Iraq and Afghanistan.
Issues such as the Iraq war are seen as catalysts in the rowParts of the Arab media describes it as a modern crusade. Many Arab columnists often speak of a campaign to distort and discredit Islam.
For them, the row over the Danish cartoons is yet another confirmation of this perception.
==
In fairness, the entire article is not about America per se, but note the words…
AMERICA’s War on Terror. And AMERICA’s War on Terror is at least partially responsible for rage of Muslims over cartoons printed in Denmark, blah blah blah… AMERICA’s war, that began when we arrogantly hurled our skyscrapers into 19 innocent Muslim passengers (oh, and some other people too), etc etc blah blah blah.It is THIS thinking that it should be US policy to hang out to dry, and let twist in the wind. If the BBC (News, not programming which is great) is targeted by these fanatical animals tomorrow, is that a good thing or a bad thing for freedom on this planet? It’s a travesty that I can’t say either way.
- Jordanian editors arrested over cartoons (05 Feb 2006).
One of the newspapers, the “Al-Mehwar” reprinted [the cartoons] on January 26 to accompany an article on widespread condemnation of the sketches. It claimed to be the ‘first Arab newspaper to have alerted the Arab world to these cartoons, discovered on the internet’”
- #88 If this is malefesence (I give it 70%) then it is DOS as you say.
Where Google may be at fault is if they cave in to demands to censor the blogspot domain on pain of more DOS.
Given their track record on China, they put business well before profit and are ready to dance with the devil. If they are willing to compromise this way when pursuing new opportunities, they would be twice as willing to do it when managing risk.
Yes, looks like an opportunity for a whole new domain. Didn’t Murdoch buy Myspace ? Perhaps Six Days needs to relocate…
- Oh, and I should mentioned….
(BBC) “America’s war on terror is still largely perceived in the Arab world as a war on Islam…”
==
And how much fault for THAT can be directly attributed to the BBC, personally? How much of that could have been undone by the BBC explaining to the world that it was NOT a war on Islam, but rather on a totalitarianism just like Stalin’s or North Korea’s?
And did the BBC, with it’s vast power on this planet, DO any of that? Hah!
Just what percentage of today’s bitter conflict can be DIRECTLY attributed to the BBC specifically, given it’s behavior over the past five years?
An extremely valid and cogent question.
- Damian Penny has a great spoof of what the American networks should have said.
If You Can’t Be Brave, At Least Be Honest
Posted by The Sanity Inspector on 2006 02 04 at 10:13 PM • permalink
- This says it all for me.
They are like children seeking attention by doing something disgusting, (but much less innocent than children). But as you rightly say some of them may well push it further and become more extreme.
I think he’s onto something!
Settle down, children. You’re being oafish and infantile.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 04 at 10:44 PM • permalink
- “I denied any similarities between the crocodile and the cleric,” said Nik Kowsar, who now works for a news agency he prefers not to name. “But they were more powerful so I went to prison.”
And just think—his blasphemy was so dire that even his Bush- and America-bashing work didn’t cut any ice with the mullahs.
Posted by The Sanity Inspector on 2006 02 04 at 10:44 PM • permalink
- I wouldn’t assign any link between the cartoon issue and Blogspot being down just yet. Blogspot has a history of service outages from time to time, so it might just be a routine technical glitch.Posted by Evil Pundit on 2006 02 04 at 10:55 PM • permalink
- Rainbow — Denial Of Service. Crowd the site or its server until it’s unavailable.Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 05 at 12:44 AM • permalink
- This whole demonstration has an air of careful stage management . The cartoons were published last year I believe so why now the uproar?
Perhaps it took that time to stir the empty minds.
Also the ABC will never televise anything against their beloved Muslims. Their programmes are based on a raving left wing ideology. Watch Compass sometime.
- Hmmm – I just lost a couple of paras of carefully worded comments – just disappeared up this blog’s fundament.
Here’s the Reader’s Digest version.
#44, Stats – you are crazy if you think that these leftie arts wankers are going to get anywhere near court.
Australia’s revamped sedition laws are not about penalising dissent from government policy or ridicule of government figures. That is just a propaganda line run by these moral posers. They would do anything they can to try to discredit the Howard Government – even resort to this kind of totally implausible, dishonest crap.
The amended sedition laws are about making it unlawful to whip up violent hotheads into committing acts of terrorism at home or becoming jihadis dedicated to fighting our own soldiers or our allies overseas. That is all.
TFK
- Speaking of the MSM surrender to the demands of the rioters, I found the headline of my local rag – the San Francisco Chronicle – said it all: “Warriors Win a Rare Laugher”
They corrected their “mistake” in the last 15 minutes, but I got a screenshot on my blog.
- ctchrmkr 59
It’s difficult to generalize on life expectancy of people who live a “normal” lifestyle – some live to a ripe old age, some die early. Islamicists ” …, “are the militants who pick up weapons and seek to do violence aganst coalition troops – I suspect their life expectancy is on the lower end of the spectrum.”
Yeah, that was sloppy of me. My main complaint is about the longevity of a small number of way-too-old Islamist asswipes, who keep on getting older when they should be getting dead, particularly Messrs. Al Zawahiri and Al Zarkowi, who piss me off by still existing. And ObL too, if he still does exist. In short, the “masssssterminds” behind the splodeydopes.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 12:23 PM • permalink
- stats 44
“Bravo #10 on your comment on the fool#1.” ” COWARDS all of them supported by leftoids like pukeypup, #1.”
and stats 62
” They know they wont be touched and like the cowards cited in #1 by pukeypup, they can prim and prance in their self-glorification and shout Yah. Yah, Yah “
Stoopy say: Girl, what, the, fuck? Looks to me like Percypup was sarcastically making the same complaint you’re making. Only, you know, less repetitively and nastily. When the fuh-hell did PP devolve into a “leftoid”?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 12:38 PM • permalink
- Mr Waterton, sir, and other disparagers of these cartoons, I must speak up. Two of these cartoons are fukkin’ brilliant:
1/ The eyes-blacked-out prophet cartoon is a commentary on This Exact Issue. It is forbidden to portray the prophet, let alone mock his ass, which kind of points up the unreasonability of the Islamist point of view, PLUS that excellent visual pun about the blacked-out eyes contrasted with the blacked-out-entire-persons. This is a superb cartoon and ought to be prominently reprinted everywhere on earth, immediately and continuously, for a long time.
2/ The bomb-noggin prophet cartoon is an apt illustration of what happens to the brains of people who seethe with this kind of civilization-destroying fury, as these lovely Islamist nitwits do. They fuck themselves up mentally by fanning their own anger until they’re unable to think or behave rationally, and a whole lot of explodey consequences ensue. It’s comical AND, er, “prophetic.”Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 12:50 PM • permalink
- Rebase 73
The muslims are just showing us they believe in “might is right”.
And the lamestream media is just showing us that they agree.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 12:58 PM • permalink
- Blue 17
crackers with a nice dill Havarti.
It turns out that the convenience store two blocks away has Boar’s Head Cream Havarti Cheese with Dill on the shelf. And it’s goooooh-hoooood! Pakistani fellow runs the shop, nice chap, and he undercuts 7-11’s prices on Jolt Cola too! I’ve never asked him about the prominently-displayed “Boar’s Head” brand at his deli case, and never shall. But thanks for the tip about this Havarti stuff, yum!
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 01:21 PM • permalink
- Late to the party as usual….
#75 SezaGeoff, I was kinda wondering about something else: IIRC it’s illegal to possess guns in Oz and in UK, but not here in US (which may explain why we haven’t seen so many Angry Moslem Crowds Holding Threatening Signs here): If I were to see that loser holding the sign “Behead Those Who Mock Islam”, and I decided the O in “Those” would make a perfect target for my .40S&W, can I claim self-defense insofar as his sign announced a definite threat to my personal safety?…
- Hi Challeron – it’s not right to say that owning guns is “illegal” in Oz. Most farmers own a couple. But it’s true that they are pretty tightly controlled through the various State licensing systems.
“Self defence” is not an accepted reason for owning a firearm and handguns are virtually impossible to own legally unless you are involved in legitimate security work or are an established sporting pistol-shooter.
Serious crims seem to be able to get them fairly easiliy, though!
TFK
- When the fuh-hell did PP devolve into a “leftoid”?
percypup is merely #362 in the growing list of generally respected commenters that stats has wildly misinterpreted and consequently gone off at for no good reason. And they say old age mellows people…
Mea culpa to slammer BTW. When he was the first one to point out the exact same thing about stats a few weeks ago, I thought he was just hyperventilating.
- #25
“You’re right, Stevo. We should lock up people with wrong beliefs. I say we start with those persons who believe that mayonnaise is an edible food.”Now you’ve done it, Andrea. Ambrose Bierce, in The Devil’s Dictionary, defined mayonnaise as one of those sauces that serve the French in place of a state religion. Here you have dissed the religous beliefs of the gourmet-croyants, and their revenge will be terrirble. Such dissing can lead to terrible violence, and we wouldn’t want that, now would we?
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 02 05 at 09:00 PM • permalink
- Wowsers. Let’s see, then …
362. Percypup
361. KK
360. BattlestarGalactica
359. Boss Hog
… I can’t remember back any farther than that.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 05 at 09:44 PM • permalink
- SDD, just so long as you don’t add me to that list.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 05 at 10:23 PM • permalink
- Andrew X #92: And, don’t forget our mean farmland. I mean, it just reached up out of the earth and brought down that 767 peacefully cruising along at 30,000 feet. You have to admit, you don’t find farmland like that anywhere else on earth but within the Great Satan’s domain.
Snoop #111 (I think??) Agree fully. Those old bastards should be put down right quick. But, we have our best on it. Special Ops. Can’t find any better from our standpoint. Too bad the Pakis aren’t really our ally in the GWOT.
- TFK 117
“Self defence” is not an accepted reason for owning a firearm
That’s fucking wack. Self defense either IS a right or it ain’t. In the USA it IS one.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 06 at 01:02 PM • permalink
- Nilknarf 121
just so long as you don’t add me to that list.
Snot up to me. I’m a compiler, not a designator. This list is added to solely by the caprice of the itchy trigger finger of, er, that other commentor. She hasn’t been calling YOU a “leftoid,” has she?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 06 at 03:08 PM • permalink
Page 1 of 1 pages
Genre
Comedy, Spoken Word
Location
Hamer Hall, the Arts Centre
Date
5 February 2006 5pm
Intellectual and artistic heavyweights gather to defy new sedition laws.
“I’d love to get locked up for doing this,” says comedian and breakfast radio host Dave O’Neill. Known for his provocative and merciless ridicule of our nation’s leader, O’Neill is one of many prominent artists voicing his outrage by doing what they do best: agitating through entertainment.
In defiance of, and with the intention of repealing the Howard Government’s newly passed anti-sedition legislation, this grassroots movement is backed by many of Australia’s intellectual and artistic heavyweights. As O’Neill says, it’s the cartoonists and comedians who are the first to be imprisoned when these kinds of laws are enacted and it remains to be seen whether that will indeed be the case after tomorrow’s concert.Brave comedians