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Last updated on June 15th, 2017 at 12:45 pm
David Marr in The Guardian last month:
“You didn’t have to have unique insight into the Australian psyche to know that blocking the arrival of refugees would be extremely popular. [Liberal strategist Lynton] Crosby and others were daring enough to exploit this for electoral purposes and pander directly to the innate fear in the Australian psyche that slanty-eyed people from the east are going to invade.”
Well, if it’s innate, we can scarcely be blamed for it, can we? It’s our nature to be racist trash; that’s why we refused to give a single cent to those slanty-eyed folk in the east who got hit by a Jap-sounding wave a few months ago. It’s a wonder David could tolerate living off our innately racist taxes for the past three years.
- Maybe they were just trying to get some of their oil money back.Posted by paco on 04/20 at 11:54 AM • #
- What a piece of shit this creature is!Posted by Susan Norton on 04/20 at 12:03 PM • #
- slanty-eyed people from the east are going to invade
You guys are worried about Peruvians?
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 04/20 at 12:04 PM • #
- Yes, we hate Asians, it’s true. It’s why we’re getting all these FTAs with them, we’re going to kill the lot by throwing money and cheaper Australian goods at them.
With all the money we’ve made in the past 9 years, I reckon we can do it.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 04/20 at 12:15 PM • #
- I guess this Crosby made him gnash. He should have been still.Posted by chinesearithmetic on 04/20 at 12:25 PM • #
- Please don’t send him back to the UK. We are full of moonbats already!
I’m actually thinking about emigrating to Oz, but I’m worried that you aren’t being picky enough! You let a grauniad person in.#
Has anyone else noticed that the more picky a country is about immigration (i.e. concentrates on quality) the better the country.
P.S. The U.K only imports workshy parasites that’s why I’m off to somewhere with a future!
- What a self-righteous, ignorant jerk! He’s practically calling Australia the white trash of the British Empire.Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/20 at 12:57 PM • #
- Two things you never hear about from Marr and his grubby, biased SMH/ABC mates:
First, detention for asylum seekers was started in Australia by a Labor government who introduced it with little fuss and fanfare as I recall. It only became interesting for Marr etc post 1996 when Howard got in.
Second, you never hear of alternative solutions. Allowing people who have turned up with no ID freely into the country doesn’t appear an answer – for asylum seekers themselves (who are very exploitable – if they complain, they get deported) and for those who compete with them internally for the lowest paid jobs.
The fact asylum seekers turn up at all in countries like Australia and Britain is a far more convincing statement of the quality of those countries than anything Marr and his mates can say.
Posted by Flying Giraffe on 04/20 at 01:58 PM • #
- I’m afraid of the “slanty-eyed people from the east” but that’s because they are always carrying knives. Sucks to live west of chinatown.Posted by ZombieXXXXking on 04/20 at 03:24 PM • #
- #10. Concur. It’s always about what NOT to do, rather than WHAT they believe should be done. Face it, people want to live here rather than their own filthy, stinking third-rate shit holes. That includes Un Zud. Marr complains. That what he does. Ever since he first took a high hard one in the back flaps, he’s been complaining about things. ‘Why don’t people let me flaunt my ass-banditry publicly?’ ‘Why do sanctimonious pricks like me continually get humoured with employment and money by state-run media organisations?’ ‘Why are people crushing my dissent? Is it because you hate me because I’m gay?’ ‘Why does the evil dissent -crussing Howard military regime continue to crush the lives of those less fortunate to arrive here illegally on our northern shores, when he could just….ummm…let them live free with some people?’
- that slanty-eyed people from the east are going to invade.”
Once again, Marr’s pulling shit from his arse. Even if the election were about deep-seated racism, it certainly wouldn’t be about “slanty-eyed people” from the East. The asylum seekers were Pakistani, Afghani and Iraqi, remember? Not a lot of “slanted eyes” in the Middle East.
The majority of east Asian immigration (ie, Marr’s “slanty-eyes”) come through the normal, legal channels, which the government did not curtail at all. In fact it increased it.
This guy was running Media Watch?
Posted by Quentin George on 04/20 at 04:34 PM • #
- Democracy, n., … a form of government in which the supreme power is invested in the people and exercised by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
So, the pollies state their policies, and the people vote for the ones they like. Is that so hard to understand?
Whining without suggesting a viable alternative is a waste of time and space. But that is David’s main line of employment. Is it any wonder that people in western, developed countries are concerned? Concerned, not just about illegals, but about being taken for suckers by legal immigrants who have no desire to fit in, but who throw their weight around to the detriment of everybody. England, Holland, France and Germany have all been given front row seats to watch what happens to your country when you have a substantial and antagonistic (to the point of being violent murderers) sub-culture.
- The phenomenon that Marr refers to is a correct one in my opinion.
Despite Australians being an extremely generous people who have compassion for disaster victims, disabled, mentally ill, etc The compassion soon dries up when one of these people moves in next door.
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/20 at 06:28 PM • #
- Marr looks as if he spends all day sucking on lemons, which might be closer to the truth
I think all lefties are starting to look like that: why wouldn’t they after the re-elections of Bush and Howard, the election of Ratzinger and the success of elections in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are plenty of sour letters in todays papers 🙂
Posted by ArtVandelay on 04/20 at 07:32 PM • #
- I’m sorry, but the left really, really give me the shits. You have Marr making snide comments about ‘slant eyes’ to the east (he never looks to the north, only behind him) creating this view of Australian rednecks, then you have this recent rant from Margo:
Margo: You can’t see the difference, Robert? These are OUR CITIZENS the AFP has handed to the Indons, IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT if convicted Indonesia could EXECUTE THEM. And yes, ‘corruption is endemic in Indonesia’. Too bad for OUR CITIZENS handed over by OUR GOVERNMENT to their corrupt judical system, eh? Geez, mate, you really think it’s fine and dandy for Australia to DELIBERATELY sacrifice Australian lives to encourage Indonesia’s fledgling democracy?
I don’t get it. When it suits, Asians are one minute, the noble race to the north, the next, barbarians. Each argument changing with the leftist wind. So long as they can pin a moral argument on Howard, they don’t know what they want.
Wankers!
- mushtaq_omar — Well, if you’re going to insist on talking to your neighbors, you just have to expect that sort of reaction…Posted by richard mcenroe on 04/20 at 08:02 PM • #
- mushtaq_omar: How unfortunate that property values keep Marr and those he loves apart. Meanwhile, out in the suburbs people manage to get on with their lives and their neighbours without moral grandstanding and self-serving contempt for others.
exploit this for electoral purposes
Wasn’t this canard from the election before last? 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004 … I’m losing track.
- I think Marr was channeling Gough- fucking Vietnamese Balts. Don’t remember any of the last crop of reffos having either slanty eyes or being from the East. Marr-mee doesn’t get out much does he- otherwise he would see the teeming Asian owned and operated stores, restaurants and other businesses being patronised by seething, indignant xenophobic round eyes. It must take real effort to be that much of a pompous twat.
- mushtaq_omar: Sure you’re not projecting your own inadequacies? In my neighbourhood—inner regional city, lower middle class—there’s a Tongan family over the road, a mosque up the street, Somalians in the next block, an Indonesian restaurant next to a Chinese takeaway next to a Pizza place in the main drag and the whole suburb is heavily populated with Mediterranean migrants from the 50s and 60s. I suggest this population mix is mirrored all over the country. And apart from a once-in-a-blue-moon dust-up between Croats and Serbs, everyone gets on fine. However, if one ethnic group began acting violently or in a lawless manner you can bet there’d be a hostile reaction. And not just from the skips.
- nwab said: ‘You are wrong to infer that Kingston is saying that Indonesians are barbaric’.
lets read just 2 examples from the Margoyle:
Margo: Hi Rob. Is this case unprecedented? Does anyone know of any other case where the Australian government has helped a foreign country arrest our citizens overseas to face the death penalty? In this case it’s death by firing squad. The Indons can also interrogate people under lock and key for 70 days before they even have to charge them with anything
Margo: Adrian, the issue is whether the AFP should have instead arrested those carrying drugs when they re-entered Australia. There’s a crime called importing illicit drugs – heard of it? And that’s assuming, of course, that one or more of those Australians being held – without charge mind you – are guilty of anything. Why did the Australian government deliberately help the Indonesians – and everyone knows their police and judicial system is systemically corrupt – to interne our citizens when they could at the end of it all be killed by firing squad?
The clear inference is that because the Indonesians ‘shoot people’ they are barbarians.
- Well, Mushtaq, if Muslims behaved like civilised human beings, probably Australians wouldnt mind living next door to them.
Actually Dee I wasn’t referring to Muslims in particular, but thanks for reminding me about the mentality of many on this site.
Murph, I think you’re a good example of what I was referring to. Or would you enthusiastically embrace your new neighbor if he happened to be Muslim?
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/20 at 11:13 PM • #
- Slatts — And they let you live there?Posted by richard mcenroe on 04/20 at 11:14 PM • #
- The clear inference is that because the Indonesians ‘shoot people’ they are barbarians.
I disagree Nic. The clear inference is that the Indonesian government and judicial system is corrupt, and that the author of these comments disagrees with the death penalty, not that the entire population are barbarians.
I think that most people define a society by broader criteria than their government’s deficiencies. Iraq is a good example.
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/20 at 11:22 PM • #
- Murph, I think you’re a good example of what I was referring to. Or would you enthusiastically embrace your new neighbor if he happened to be Muslim?
Notwithstanding whatever murph’s response will be, would you care to explain how scarce, anecdotal evidence will serve to support your point that “Australians” in general are guilty of this behaviour?
You know, for somebody who tends to get awfully defensive when individual Muslims are singled out for criticism (without any attack being made on Muslims in general), you’re pretty quick with the collective indictments yourself. A bit of projecting, maybe? Shucks, if I didn’t already know you’re a lefty, now I’d suspect as much.
- Dee:
Well, Mushtaq, if Muslims behaved like civilised human beings, probably Australians wouldnt mind living next door to them.
Dee, have you ever met anyone of the Islamic faith?Anyone who starts talking about racial, ethnic or religious groups like you do is deeply ignorant. A racist bigot.
The Islamofascists are hiding amongst the muslim population, just as a few (other)paedophiles, serial killers etc do amongst the Australian population as a whole. Also, some sects of Islam are as twisted as some sects of Christianity, Hinduism etc etc.
Not that long ago, an Australian missionary and his family were burned to death by so-called “Hindu” zealots.
The difference is one of scale. Muslims have a lot greater proportion of barbarians, and the vast majority of them who are decent don’t speak out enough against that minority, out of “Muslim Solidarity”.
- Thanks for your comments aebrain,
I do agree that we don’t hear enough from moderates in the press.
I haven’t quite worked out if this is because such comments don’t exist, or they simply aren’t reported – or a combination of the two.
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/21 at 12:58 AM • #
- Mushie & Co.,
You and your lot keep asserting that ‘everyone’ knows that the Indonesian government and judicial system is corrupt
Got any evidence?
Or this just another leftie smear campaign, villification on a national basis.
Guilty by assumption, and condemned by a unrepresentative kangaroo court to eternel damnation from the oh-so righteous secular left.
- AE Brain – yes, I have met many Muslims. Worked with them, too. I should have said ‘many Muslims’ instead of simply ‘Muslims’, but otherwise I stand by my original statement. I had no opinion about Muslims until I witnessed their level of antisocial behaviour with my own eyes.
Instead of calling me a racist, why dont you find out why so many Australians feel the same way? We could ask Mushtaq why he labels Australians as racists when the shoe is so clearly on the other foot.
I disagree with your ‘matter of scale’ comment. So far as I know, there are no Hindus, Buddhists or Jews trying to change our laws to suit themselves. They dont have rape seminars either, as the Muslim community did at Bankstown last month.
To offer the feeble and treacherous excuse of ‘Muslim solidarity’ to excuse those who hide terrorists and fanatics is an insult to all the Australians who may be maimed or killed because of the ‘Muslim solidarity’ you mention. They are either loyal to this country, or they’re not.
- Rog2, There is a general consensus among those who study, work in, or live in Indonesia that the political tradition is one of nepotism and corruption of varying degrees.
I suggest you try Damien Kingsbury’s The Politics of Indonesia or Kevin O’Rourke’s Reformasi if you need some concrete facts regarding corruption in Indonesia.
You could even head to the library and try the indexes of such periodicals as The Diplomat, the rabidly leftist Economist, or old issues of the Far Eastern Economic Review.
If you don’t have time for old-fashioned research, online sources could include the Asia Times Online or Inside Indonesia.
As for vilification on a national level, a few of us on this thread have been trying to point out that criticism of a nation’s government does not mean hatred of its people. Think Iraq.
- dee just because some one signs off as ‘Sultan of Brunei’ doesnt mean it is really trooly himself, more likely the sultana of the browneye.
This constant repition of anecdotal evidence, “I know this guy, he’s a muslim and he takes out my garbage, such a kind courteous man, he’s great” doesnt amount to anything; you have to take the long view and stick with the fundamentals.
Militant muslims may be in the minority but they are supported by the majority.
Call me ignorant, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
- Thank you Rog2 – of course there are nice Muslims. I worked with many Muslims whom I liked very much. My point, like yours, is that personal anecdotes simply dont matter. I also have many anecdotes showing Muslims as violent bullies, but its the religion itself that is the root of the problem, because it is incompatible with 21st century Democracy and the Western way of life.
While the Islamic community is ruled by people like al-Hilaly and spoken for by people like Keysar Trad, Australians have excellent reason to be suspicious of Muslims. The doubters should read ‘Islam online’ sometimes – they can then see what Muslims say when they think we’re not listening.
- Except, nwab, that militant conservative Christians who break the law (at least in the USA) are punished. Their groups are often officially recognized as potential threats (because they are), and are labeled as such, mostly in the MSM, but identifying “hate groups” by private groups has been a long standing practice here in the USA. We even coined the term “domestic terrorism” for this—I believe that is an official term.
Now, apply this litmus test to the Islamofascists in their own countries.
Official recognition as trouble makers: sometimes. But only after they conduct terrorist attacks there.
Recognition by the local media as a hate or terrorist group: not as often as you would think. Think Al Jazeera.
Identification of hate groups by private organizations: I’m not sure about the private groups, but I do recall hearing some Imams condemning terrorists….but not until recently.
Conclusion: Militant muslims may be in the minority but they could be supported by the majority. There’s not a lot of evidence to the contrary.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 02:25 AM • #
- Nic, it sounds like you are the one who hates. Instead of thinking, perhaps.
How do you define US citizens of the left, such as Jim Lobe, Stephen Zunes or Michael Klare? Are they anti-American because they support the other side of politics?
If I were to vote for a party other than the Coalition would I be anti-Australian?
Perhaps your hatred for Saddam is really hatred for Iraqis. How would that accusation make you feel? Really, how sensible is it to suggest such crap?
Anyway, if it makes you feel better, you are free to continue with your drivel. Make the left whatever you want it to be, then swear about it. No one will notice anyway. Good luck to you.
- Good Neighbours:
A book that’s quietly being distributed within Norway’s Muslim community refers to Norwegians as the sons of Satan. The book, written by an anonymous author, has been turned over to police by Oslo’s Anti-Racism Center.
In addition to associating Norwegians with the devil, the book lashes out at Norwegian ethics and morality. The author, believed to be a mullah or other Muslim religious leader living in Oslo, claims that Norwegians don’t have legitimate children. “They’re conceived here and there,” claims the author.
But although the condemnation of Western immorality and association of unbelievers with the devil (cf. Qur’an 58:19-20, which says that “those who oppose Allah and His Messenger” are “the Party of the Evil One”) are common among Muslim preachers, Muslim spokesmen in Norway are shocked, shocked!:http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1021435.ece
(via jihad watch)
- i wonder if he can be prosecuted under the left wing race hate laws like adams was. this time instead of americans it will be australians.Posted by Astonished on 04/21 at 03:52 AM • #
- Blogstrop. Wow, what overwhelming evidence you’ve uncovered. A book by some anonymous guy that’s been possibly read by some anonymous people. Quick invade, invade!!Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/21 at 05:04 AM • #
- Leftotics always accuse others of being what they are and doing what they do. They accuse others of being racist, yet they are so racist they think it perfectly proper for Aborigines to be represented to the world by a garbage dump (ie. “Aboriginal Embassy).Posted by DropDeadUgly on 04/21 at 05:20 AM • #
- Wow, Mushtaq!
Someone points out an example of Islamic hatemongering, and you sneer at it. Given that you are all over posts that generalize Muslims based on an opinion, how do you justify jumping on what appears to be a reported fact?
At least graboy posted a link. Do you have anything that might discredit what he posted? Or is this just a kneejerk reaction?
(I will stipulate that other people have responded with a kneejerk reaction to your opinions. But baiting is not an effective counterargument.)
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 05:33 AM • #
- My bad. I meant “Blogstrop”!Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 05:34 AM • #
- Quick summary for a background of Islam, leaving potloads out.
1. There’s the Koran (The Direct Word of God, it says so on the label).
2. There’s the hadiths (sort of like the new testament), traditions of what Mohammed(pbuh) is supposed to have said and done.
3. There’s no central structure, it’s not even as organised as the Southern Baptist Conference – which ranges from the relatively sane and sensible (who just want to ban Rock’n’Roll and dancing of any kind as “immoral”) to the Snake Handlers and Arch-Fundamentalist Flat Earthers.Complexities:
1. There are huge arguments over which hadiths are “reliable”, and which are bogus. Pick the right subset, you can make Islam into almost anything you want, from BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD to pacifist mysticism. Which one is taught at the local Mosque sometimes changes with every new Imam.
2. As in the Torah and Bible, there’s lots of contradictory and evil stuff in the Koran. There’s even a huge branch of Islamic Scholarship that does nothing but figure out which bits are superceded by which other bits.
For example of Torah evil, see
Exodus 21:7-11
Deuteronomy 17:2-5Jews don’t as a rule go around killing all unbelievers, or selling their daughters, whatever the situation might have been 3000 years ago. No, not even the Ultra-Ultra-Ultra Orthodox “stone anyone travelling by Car on a Saturday” types that infest tiny parts of Israel.
And what about Matthew 10:34-36 ? So much for family values.
I’m not criticising Judaism, nor Christianity. The vast majority of Jews and Christians don’t go around killing kids who smart-mouth their parents ( Leviticus 20:9 ). Both Judaism and Christianity are, in the main, sane. Some parts of the Bible/Torah are emphasised, some so totally ignored that few adherents are aware of their existence, or consider that they have any relevance if they know about them.
The tiny minority that take every word absolutely literally (as opposed to the much larger but still minority group who say they do) are usually put in mental hospitals, sometimes before, sometimes after they put the baby in the oven to “cast out demons” etc.
The trouble is, the same can’t be said of Islam. There’s a sizeable minority, rather than one in a million, it’s more like one in a hundred, who go around actually slaughtering the unbelievers, engaging in slavery etc etc. And a much larger proportion who, while never thinking of doing such a thing themselves, can’t bring themselves to condemn those barbarities too much, because of what the Koran and Hadiths say.
Should anyone stand up at an execution of an adulteress by stoning in Iran today, and say “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”, the authorities are likely to have them executed too, on some trumped-up charge or other. There’s precedent. It’s just that some religions have outgrown this stuff, and a long time ago.
What’s really sad is that in some ways, Islam has gone backwards. Had anyone dropped in to 14th century Tehran, vs 14th century Rome, it’s unlikely they’d predict correctly who the more tolerant of the two would be in 2005.
So for those who say the problem is inherent in Islam, I say the problem is no more inherent there than in Christianity pr Judaism. Of the three, Judaism is historically the best in practice, but the worst in theory. Christianity is the best in theory, but there’s little things like the 30 years war (17th century, Catholic vs Protestant, depopulated much of Germany, slaughter and rapine rampant) and Tai-Ping rebellion (19th century Chinese Christian Loony Sect Goes REALLY Nuts, Kills 30-50 million) that argue that until the 20th century, they were the worst.
- Jeffs,
Here in Australia I receive “junk mail” all the time from Christian fanatics claiming that the end of the world is nigh, and unless we follow the true path, we will spend an eternity in hell!!
Similarly, you can’t go to a major shopping complex without some fire and brimstone preacher screaming of the apocalypse.
Do I take these extremes as the norm?? or recognize that these nut cases no more define Christianity than guys flying into skyscrapers define Islam.
aebrain, thanks again for your thorough and intelligent post.
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/21 at 06:23 AM • #
- Mushtaq, you sidestepped my point quite nicely. You’re getting to be quite the professional at that.
I did not ask you about Islam or Christianity, nor did I generalize on either (although I have in the past—on both).
Instead, I asked you about links and/or evidence, not your opinion, nor for strawman generalizations. As nwab rightly pointed out in #61, I should add. On both of his points.
Back to my point, with the firm understanding between us that I know that you have been jumped here yourself:
Do you have a valid counterpoint to Blogstrops’ post?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 06:45 AM • #
- The_Real_Jeffs:
I think mushtaq_omar felt that my interminably long and rambling post was an adequate answer. But I’ll let him speak for himself on that.
The trouble with universally condemning Islam is that first you must ignore or be unwilling to see that most Muslims are just people. Like most Arch-Baptist “Rock’n’Roll is Mortal Sin” Hellfire-And-Damnation “Creation Science” types are just people, some of them quite good people. Often more loyal, charitable, hard-working, honourable and honest than those less pious around them. Sometimes just hypocrites.
You and I may think they’re terminally wrong, but as they don’t go around actually bombing abortion clinics and beating up gays (however much they may remain silent when asked to uniquivocally condemn these activities), you shouldn’t be in fear of them. Unless they get in power. Most Muslims are no worse than the “Moral Majority”, they have the same vices and the same virtues.
The trouble with defending Islam is that the number of Arch-Baptist “Rock’n’Roll is Mortal Sin” etc etc etc types is small worldwide, and the number who bomb abortion clinics so tiny as to be worth massive media attention.
Most Islamic countries, if they became democracies, would be no worse than they’d be if Anti-Evolutionist Literal-Word-Of-The-Bible-Belter Fundamentalist Christians were in charge, and where the majority of the population agreed wholeheartedly with them. Churchgoing, Godfearing, Closed-Minded and Repressive.
But there are entire countries where Islamic versions of the Homicidal Maniac fringe are numbered in the millions, or where they control the government, or have tremendous political clout. Sometimes all three.
You may now say “And that’s supposed to *comfort* me????” Hey, I calls ‘em how I sees ‘em. It’s the way things are.
- Bible authors really did love a good stoning didn’t they. Glad they don’t do that anymore, or the selling of children as sex slaves…. well that still happens but is highly illegal and have entire organizations hunting them.Posted by Aging Gamer on 04/21 at 07:45 AM • #
- aebrain wrote:
The trouble with universally condemning Islam is that first you must ignore or be unwilling to see that most Muslims are just people.
[snip] [quote]You and I may think they’re terminally wrong, but as they don’t go around actually…
Now, go back to read my posts at #62 and 66, and point out where I condemned Islam. Please. I’m very curious.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 07:48 AM • #
- Jeffs,
The situation has been handled well by the local authorities.
The only Muslims who actually commented on the subject denounced the work as extremist and denied mainstream support.
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/21 at 07:50 AM • #
- Despite Australians being an extremely generous people who have compassion for disaster victims, disabled, mentally ill, etc The compassion soon dries up when one of these people moves in next door.
So, Mushtaq, in your opinion Australians don’t like “these people” living next door. Not some Australians, or even most Australians, but apparently ALL Australians.
That’s quite a generalisation Mushtaq, a distinctly negative view of Australians really. And seeing as you couldn’t possibly know what all Australians think, it would seem to be quite a prejudiced view as well.
In fact it sounds a lot like racism to me (or a least rampant bigotry)
But that can’t be right because that would make you one of those types that I think people find most obnoxious of all – the hypocritical racist.
Still I suppose there are special rules about racism or bigotry isn’t there. The most important being that it only applies to other people.
- Michael,
I speak From my experience and didn’t mean to cast a shadow over the entire population. Poorly written.
Incidentally, I am an aussie. I was born here and am a proud citizen
Posted by mushtaq_omar on 04/21 at 08:00 AM • #
- aebrain,
Muslims are not a race. Islam is an ideology and like any ideology you, me or anybody are perfectly entitled to brand its adherents in anyway we please.
And spare me the bollocks about a small minority. I was working in the City of London on 911 and I know what I saw. Short of a punch in the head, it was impossible to wipe the smile of the faces of every Muslim I worked with.
- Incidentally, I am an aussie. I was born here and am a proud citizen
Oh so you must’ve been talking about yourself then when you branded Australians racist.
Tell me MO, how would you feel if a family of rich Orthodox Jews moved in next door to you?
What about Jews who fled persecution in Europe and the Arab world and settled in Palestine and Israel? Love thy neighbour?
- There is no doubt very few Muslims pose a real threat to us. On the other hand, all the guff about “tolerance” is a smokescreen.
Drop the demands for religious vilification laws and ditch the sanctimony over immigration policy, and we’ll begin to take you seriously.
Posted by Steve Edwards on 04/21 at 08:30 AM • #
- Dee :
I should have said “many Muslims” instead of simply “Muslims”
I unreservedly withdraw any implication of you being a Racist Bigot. No rascist bigot would make such a correction to an inadvertant over-generalisation. I’ve been guilty of worse, myself.
but otherwise I stand by my original statement.
Fair enough. I can’t say I disagree with you, except in trivial details.
I disagree with your “matter of scale” comment. So far as I know, there are no Hindus, Buddhists or Jews trying to change our laws to suit themselves.
Jews and Buddhists – fair enough. Hindus – there are few members of the RSS around who take the “Indian” in “Indian Ocean” a bit too seriously. They’re not active here (although present in small numbers), but are a threat in any place that was ever Hindu, or partly Hindu, or who the RSS thinks might have once been partly Hindu. A Hindu version of the “Muslim Brotherhood”, Fascist, Racist, and whose idealogues think Hitler did not go far enough with the Jews. They tend to go in for murder, arson, rape, burning widows and intimidation rather than changing laws though. The original Thugs. Muslims are their main target because there’s so many available, and they’ll occasionally slaughter Buddhists, Christian or Parsis when they can get them. But in every case, only if the victims are unarmed. They find missionaries, doctors and children the easiest targets.Of course, first they have to take over Mother India. And theres a few hundred million Hindus (and Indian Moslems, Christians, Parsis and Buddhists) who don’t like that idea one little bit.
As any Israeli will tell you, there are a few members of the Knesset in Israel who are Racist Ratbags, as bad as mainstream Islam, and rightly reviled as such. But not here, or if there are, they shut up (or are shut up).
And remember the appeal by the foul Milosevic and his abominable wife to the “rest of Christendom” to help them “cleanse” the Balkans of Muslims. They genuinely expected everyone else to think that way too, and they weren’t wholly disappointed.
You think to compare a mere handful of individuals here and rather more (25 million for the RSS) elsewhere with a “cast of thousands” here and a billion elsewhere is not valid. You may be right. But to me it’s a difference in scale, not kind.
- Thanks, Mushtaq. I have a firewall issue, and couldn’t access the site. Nor was I generalizing for or against Islam. That book sounds like some of the crap put out by Neo-Nazis or other White Supremacists, who I know (from personal experience) are on extremists within Christianity. The author of that book is likely to be a Muslim extremist as well.
Unfortunately, because of those same Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists (plus some of their non-violent but equally stupid political counterparts), us Americans have a lousy reputation in this regards. The US Government and many State governments, not to mention private groups, spent a couple decades slapping these characters down….and they still exist, in spite of those efforts.
So I’m glad to see someone (in Norway, a less-than-crazy semi-socialist nation) is recognizing that hatemongering is not strictly limited to the descendants of Northern European Christian-oriented colonists.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 08:37 AM • #
- Murph :
And spare me the bollocks about a small minority. I was working in the City of London on 911 and I know what I saw. Short of a punch in the head, it was impossible to wipe the smile of the faces of every Muslim I worked with.
What’s your attitude towards the Iraqis who are fighting these Al Qaeda scumbags then?“Every Muslim I worked with”. Alas, I don’t doubt you one little bit, it seems all too plausible. See recent events with Gorgeous George. The UK has a problem with the Muslim demographic, even bigger than ours. And less excuse, more of ours come from Middle East rather than Pakistan/Bangladeshi backgrounds.
I wasn’t working with any Muslims at the time. The few that I’ve worked with since are just hideously embarressed and usually change the subject. Very defensive. “No true Muslim would do that!” etc.
- The_real_Jeffs : Re #71
Sorry, a miscommunication here.
You didn’t and as far as I’m aware, don’t condemn Islam. I didn’t mean to imply you did.
I assume you think that mainstream Islam is “terminally wrong” in a Theological sense, that Mohammed(pbuh) wasn’t God’s Messenger, that Sharia law isn’t so hot etc etc. That’s an assumption, but I think I’m right there.
I don’t see that as a condemnation of Islam in the moral or even spiritual sense.
Like you, I don’t see how condemning some atrocious acts by some atrocious Muslims is the same as being anti-Muslim, because if it is, I’m anti-Muslim too. Also anti-Hindu, anti-Christian, and I’m working on Anti-Jewish, anti-Buddhist and anti-Atheist.
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
How do you define US citizens of the left, such as Jim Lobe, Stephen Zunes or Michael Klare? Are they anti-American because they support the other side of politics?
Yes. And?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 04/21 at 09:12 AM • #
- Thanks, Alan. I appreciate the re-visit.
No, I don’t have a lot of philosophical problems with Islam. The Koran has some nasty quotes, but the Bible is no better in that regards, especially the Old Testament.
My issues are with the people who use any religion to their own ends. We may be fallen, but that’s no reason to behave like barbarians because that life is “simpler” (mind you, this applies to both Christians and Muslims, and any other religion).
And please note, I said “barbarians”, not “primitive”. I specifically refer to people to who chose a simpler, non-violent way of life, such as the Amish.
To be honest, I have made sweeping general statements about religions. But I try to control that particular vice!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 09:22 AM • #
- mouthy melbourne taxi drivers are an invaluable index in matters of cultural comparison. in the past 5 years i have had many fundamentalist crapheads of all persuasions rant on while driving, & the most frequent offenders are islamonuts. a few of christians, one sikh, no jews & too many bearded ibrahims & muhammads to count. the best effort has to be playing koranic chanting at close to full volume & saying “it’s my religion” when asked to turn it off. an offer to get out of the cab without paying if ranting or chanting persists usually produces blissful silence -capitalism is a wunnerful thang
- Alan, if you mean Harry Turtledove, I do, I do! :^DPosted by The_Real_JeffS on 04/21 at 11:34 AM • #
- you can’t go to a major shopping complex without some fire and brimstone preacher screaming of the apocalypse.
Do I take these extremes as the norm??
Mushie just where do you shop? Downtown Riyadh?
Doesnt sound like anywhere in Australia.(incidentally I see you are registered with a flying school, how are the takeoffs and landings going?)
- aebrain
I’m not saying that all Muslims are aggressive toward the West and western values in general. I would say however, that the substantial majority are. The British Muslim community are developing into an extremely dangerous problem for Britain. There is no doubt about it. Aside from the elation of 911, I also experienced the reaction of Muslim colleagues to the bombings in Daar E Salaam, Nairobi and, of course, Israel.
As for you question about Iraqis fighting Al Qaeda – I think Muslims have a “what have the Romans done for me lately” type of attitude. They are deeply mistrusting of any community outside of the Umma (as Islam teaches them to be) but will react in their own interests (rather than in that of Islam’s) in times of great upheaval – see Iraq, Afghanistan and Aceh.
- Where does Mushtaq live, I wonder? I live in the eastern part of Sydney – never once have I received junk mail from religious fanatics. I live near two of the largest shopping malls in Sydney, and frequently shop at the city malls – never once have I heard anyone preaching apocalypse. There is an old man at Town Hall station who preaches out loud, but I have never seen him force his beliefs onto others.
Where are these things taking place? Who is sending out religious fanatic junk mail? Why have I never received any mail or noticed any Apocalypse preachers?
- Dee — I think you’n’me is pre-damned…Posted by richard mcenroe on 04/21 at 10:38 PM • #
- the Real Jeff S, aebrian — Sorry, but I ain’t calling either of yez ‘superior sir.’Posted by richard mcenroe on 04/22 at 09:21 AM • #
- richard mcrenroe
And I’m not going to start using body-paint any time soon, either.
Funny isn’t it that people of like mind have similar clusters of interests. I figured what objectively was a fairly obscure reference had a decent chance of being recognised by someone who I agreed with, and got lucky. A Fyunch *click*.
