The content on this webpage contains paid/affiliate links. When you click on any of our affiliate link, we/I may get a small compensation at no cost to you. See our affiliate disclosure for more info -----------------------
Last updated on August 9th, 2017 at 12:54 pm
Oh no! Just when we Westerners were t
Oh no! Just when we Westerners were thinking we’d won this round of the global cartoon wars, Iran tricks us with an ingenious surprise move:
Iran’s largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
Why, we’ll be incinerating embassies and shooting each other like idiots by the end of the week. All Jew-controlled Westerners are powerless in the face of Holocaust cartoons!
“It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust,” Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper, which is published by Tehran’s conservative-run municipality, said on Monday.
He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.
“The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let’s see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons,” he asserted.
Just try to stop me, Farid Mortazavi of Hamkablam newspaper! I’ll run as many of your Holocaust cartoons here as I can fit; they’ll likely be funnier than anything ever published in Jyllands-Posten. (By the way, exactly how many Western papers printed those sacrilegious Mo-toons? Wasn’t it only a dozen or so? Do you kind of get the feeling Iran is desperate to keep this issue boiling?)
(Via Kev Gillett)
- and a retaliatory photoshop contest by a Dutch blogger:
Dutch blogger starts Mohammed parody contest
The contest is here
- It’s comforting, in a way, to see that while the world goes crazy, some good old-fashioned standards still hold up. A Danish paper ran some (presumably Christian-drawn) cartoons about Muslims, but somehow the Jews are the ones who deserve punishment. Lucky for Mortazavi that Israel isn’t as *ahem* advanced as his countrymen, or his approximate life expectancy would be about twelve hours at this point.
- Won’t it be just peachy to see these bastards laughing at the deaths of 6 million people…Posted by Bilious Young Fogey on 2006 02 07 at 03:26 AM • permalink
- Ok, this is serious. Bring out the big boys. Bugs Bunny, Popeye, Superman, Batman, Ginger Megs, and the Phantom!
That will show ‘em!
Posted by WeekByWeek on 2006 02 07 at 03:40 AM • permalink
- Somehow I think the Iranian cartoons won’t be funny or understated. But if it’s possible to represent the pure hatred of the Islamic street in cartoon form, then I’m sure the Iranians will nail it. It might make me want to convert to the religion of peace- naah I think I’ll wait for the scimitar. Then I’ll tell ‘em to go #### a camel.
- tmciolek, yes! Got it in one!
Or maybe the charmers behind these two lovely artworks could grace the pages of this newspaper?
Antisemitism? No problem! Making jokes about Mohammed? You must die, infidel scum!
- The mighty NYT weighs in today, and as usual cocks it up by getting the basic facts wrong.
“The paper that first published them did so as an experiment to see whether political satirists were capable of being as harsh to Islam as they are to other organized religions.”
Actually, the question was if any artist was willing to depict the Mo man at all, even respectfully or as a stick-figure. An author had been looking for artists to illustrate a book on Islam and couldn’t find a taker. The atmosphere of self-censorship about any depictions at all was so thick that Jyllands-Posten wanted to see how deep it ran. Seeing as how the artists are now under police protection, I’d say it runs pretty deep.
“The New York Times and much of the rest of the nation’s news media have reported on the cartoons but refrained from showing them. That seems a reasonable choice for news organizations that usually refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols, especially since the cartoons are so easy to describe in words.”
Hmmm.
Posted by Ernst Blofeld on 2006 02 07 at 04:22 AM • permalink
- Look, I understand that freedom of expression is important, but how come this game of poker seems to be using Jews as the chips. Always the Jews!
Muslims get pissed off at Europeans who publish likenesses of their guy (with only one that could be called a satirical cartoon, and pretty mild at that), and who respond by calling Muslims hypocrites because they pour out vicious slander against Jews in their papers already (true).
So Muslims retaliate and promise to publish Jew-hatred cartoons (only this time, many more). (If they challenged the Western media to publish “Mein Kampf” or “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” on the grounds of freedom of expression, would you do it? If not, then why be their patsy this time?)
And then you go “bring it on – we’ll publish as many as you’ve got!” or words to that effect. How about deciding to only publish those that aren’t foul representations of Jew-hatred or developing a sensitive, informative and serious post or link that very carefully handles these or, better yet, exercising the freedom not to publish (i.e. self-censorship)?
As for Louis and his “Let’s remember the the Semitic peoples have been at each other’s throats since 1500 BC or thereabouts” – well, up yours, you ignorant cretin. Don’t lump Jews in with your “plague on all your houses” platitude.
- If we are going to enter this Iranian contest, as i not much of a doodler, could someone with a bit of drawing talent volunteer to translate my thoughts into a decent drawing for me to enter???
i was thinking something along the lines of the present nutbag Iranian President with the unpronounceable name and having his head stuck up the rear end of a squatting, straining mohammed???
- I cannot believe any of the uproar over these piss-funny cartoons! I’ve never laughed so hard in my life! I think the point has been proven though – minority or not, the Islamic community sure has a tendency to take things a little bit too far.
And Tony – if the Jewish people aren’t to be “lumped in” with this religious fanatic crowd, then why do they still slaughter Palestinians? In fact, if they’re so seperated from the other people’s of the region, then why is Israel even there? Why wasn’t it put in their real “promised land”? I’ll tell you why – because they AREN’T seperate! They’re just as bad as the rest of them, and if it wasn’t for the holocaust, then they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on regards to their innocence of Middle Eastern politics.
Posted by slaytanic_inc on 2006 02 07 at 04:40 AM • permalink
- slaytanic_inc.
Try wiping the spittle off your face first. You’ll find you don’t get such a problem with the keyboard.
Jewish people don’t slaughter “Palestinians”, moron. Looks like you’re a Hamas buddy. Waiting for the next “final solution” are you? And just where, tell us, is the Jews “real ‘promised land’”?
If you were any more ignorant, you’d be an amoeba.
- “(By the way, exactly how many Western papers printed those sacrilegious Mo-toons? Wasn’t it only a dozen or so? Do you kind of get the feeling Iran is desperate to keep this issue boiling?) ” –
Isn’t Denmark the next chair of the security council when Iran’s nuclear program is to be discussed? Iran probably manufactured the whole thing just to try and put them on the back foot.
- #19. Tony, Tim saying “Bring it on” with regards to Iran and their pos Holocaust cartoon competition is not approving of Holocaust or other anti-Jewish cartoons.
Iran is trying to bait the West and kick the sacred cow, and missing the point of our objections altogether. So they are daring us to print their bile. Ultimately, drawings are only drawings – any special hold they have over a person are placed by the viewer. In the Danish cartoon case, muslims have decreed that pictures of Mohammed are offensive therefore non-muslims are not allowed to publish them. That is the issue.
By telling them to bring it on, Tim is daring them to expose the barrenness in their own culture and the lack of respect they hold for the infidel.
I welcome the idea, and perhaps if people got a better idea of the anti-Jewish crap that is published a lot of the time in the middle east (under the aegis of their governments, no doubt), we might be able to get a bit more dialogue with the more moderate muslims.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 07 at 05:35 AM • permalink
- From The Telegraph (UK):
We have been putting up with this for years, says Israel
Israel’s newspapers yesterday contrasted the Muslim world’s furious response to the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed with the restrained way it reacted to anti-Semitic caricatures in Arab media.
Hook-nosed Jews manipulating American foreign policy, Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, drinking the blood of Palestinian children and Israelis wearing swastikas have all been depicted in newspapers across the Arab world in recent years…
The contrast with the mob violence seen across the Muslim world in recent days was the focus yesterday of the editorial in the Jerusalem Post…
Arab media publish an endless stream of cartoons, television series and books whose anti-Jewish character falls little short of the infamous caricatures and publications of the Nazi Der Sturmer…
Posted by walterplinge on 2006 02 07 at 05:53 AM • permalink
- Nilknarf Arbed.
Thanks for your comments. I am unable to agree with you – it’s a sort of “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me” argument. Unfortunately, in the real world the words (and drawings) can do much to hurt and incite hostility.
There’s plenty of academic / interest groups etc that publish and comment on such dreck in a scholarly way. And yes, there may be elements of self-serving behaviour from those groups – but at least they treat the offending material with a very long pair of tongs and a nose peg – and there’s plenty of offending material.
You could try – http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_arab_press_080702.asp – if you really haven’t viewed anti-Semitic Arab cartoons. And there’s MEMRI and lots of other serious groups that collect, translate, analyse and publish such hate material.
I’m not suggesting that material that’s hurtful should be banned but, rather, treated with the utmost sensitivity and even considered for self-censorship where it’s grossly defaming and likely to incite hatred. Just because a pack of cowardly racist bastards challenge us to publish, doesn’t mean we should do so to spite them. Western tradition is also a tradition of individual conscience.
But again, I’d point out, Jews become the meat in the sandwich. There’s plenty of other “Crusader”, George Bush and anti-West cartoons that the Arabs / Muslims have produced. We need to ask ourselves why Hitler’s Iranian heirs chose Jews and the Holocaust as the butt of their next 12 cartoons?
- Who is the close minded ignorant amoeba now, Tony? Simply because someone disagrees with your left wing MSM, they are a “Hamas”?
How can you honestly say that Israel is attacked by Palestine? When the western world bends over backwards to support Israel in everything it does because coming off as anti-semetic is worse than being a child rapist, it would be like me trying to attack Mike Tyson.
I think that if I am to question my own stance on the topic as you say, then you should try seeing things from the Palestinian POV rather than simply labeling all Muslims terrorists.
Melanie – take your head out of your arse and realise that your precious nation of Israel isn’t innocent. Palestinian civilians are slaughtered in helicopter attacks, refugee camps are decimated by tanks and yet the UN allows the Israelis two weeks to “investigate” for themselves before moving in?
It’s all a little one sided, don’t you think? Jews/Israelis ARE just as much to blame as anyone else in the region. Stop reading the Herald Sun and maybe you’ll learn something.
Posted by slaytanic_inc on 2006 02 07 at 06:55 AM • permalink
- #34 Louis
This whole cartoon episode is a diversion from the Iranian nuclear issue that previously fixated the western media.
My God, you are right. I fell for it too.
Although, if in the next day someone dies in Iran as a result of cartoons (and it appears likely), I will be the first to shout “maybe we should trust them with nuclear weapons”.
#35 Slaytanic_inc
Speaking of heads inserted in arses, given your theory that the UN is soft on Israel, perhaps read this.
Your liberal use of the terms “slaughtered” and “decimated” in relation to ISraeli activities are nothing but hyperbole and propaganda, not borne out by the facts, statistics or any credible news report you could point us to.Comparing Israel’s targeted killing of terrorists, and occasional collateral damage or error, to a Palestinian human bomb deliberately and happily walking onto a bus to slaughter its occupants, suggests your head is so far up your own arse, I doubt anyone would be able to hear you. It’s lucky you can type!
- slaytanic_inc:
Melanie – take your head out of your arse and realise that your precious nation of Israel isn’t innocent
For more than half a century, Israel has been defending her very existence from neighbours that would kill every Jew their if they had the chance. When the surrounding Arab countries arent directly at war with Israel, they are doing it by proxy by funding the terrorist.
When Jordan had problems with the Palestinians they killed more of them during the one month of Black September than Israel has in her entire existence.Palestinian civilians are slaughtered in helicopter attacks
Israel does not target ‘civilians’ with helipoters. they are terrorists involved in planning to blow up civilians.
Killing innocent people and killing people that want to kill innocent people is not equivalent.Stop reading the Herald Sun and maybe you’ll learn something
And what do you read – Hamas’s press releases?
- slaytanic_inc.
I called you a Hamas buddy because you said: “In fact, if they’re so seperated from the other people’s of the region, then why is Israel even there? Why wasn’t it put in their real “promised land”?”
Got a nice ring to it – sounds like … Hamas Charter, PLO Charter, Iranian President. If you don’t like being labelled a Hamas buddy, then take your pick of the other two.
I didn’t “honestly say that Israel is attacked by Palestine”. (Must be the voices.)
However, if you look at the “left wing” MSM you’ll see that Israel is being attacked almost on a daily basis by “Palestinians” – e.g. 5 February – “A Palestinian man stabbed five people on a minibus in central Israel, killing one woman before passengers subdued him, police and witnesses said.” 7 February – “Members of a Hebron Hamas cell responsible for murdering of six Israelis and wounding eight in shooting attacks in 2005, were arrested last month by security forces, the Shin Bet revealed Monday.”
And the list goes on and on.
As for your contention that the “western world bends over backwards to support Israel in everything it does because coming off as anti-semetic is worse than being a child rapist”, it scarcely warrants a response, except to say Sinai withdrawal, Lebanon withdrawal, Oslo Accords and Gaza withdrawal. Maybe genuine peace initiatives are rewarded with some support. If you think that the West’s foreign policy is somehow driven by the conscience of 60 years ago and not by their own interests, your a very naive person. Personally, I think the West would be happy to sell Israel down the river at the drop of a hat, if there was anything of great value in it for them.
What does the “Palestinian Authority” do to warrant the millions it gets from the EU and USA? Murder US Fulbright scholarship staff, repudiate its undertakings, burn European embassies and spend euros on terror, or salt them away in personal Swiss bank accounts. And latest, the “Palestinians” elect a terrorist organisation, sworn to liquidate Israel, into power. I’ve seen the “Palestinian” POV – and it reeks.
Who’s “labelling all Muslims terrorists”? Get a grip. Just because many behave like terrorists, and many more support them, doesn’t mean they’re all terrorists. There’s some fine ones speaking out publicly right now against the stupid cartoon protests, and there’s other brave Muslims who advocate dialogue with Israel. Good on ‘em, I say.
- #23 Tony
As spokesman for the Global Association for the Advancement and Liberation of Amoeba I condemn in the strongest possible terms your gratuitous and slanderous comparison of amoeba with that slaytanic dickhead jerk pig-ignorant piece of shit.
Amoeba have feelings to. They have an ancient and venerable culture (unchanged for about 47 million years) and an unique way of life involving asexual reproduction, plenty of leisure time and immortality.
The suggestion that amoeba should actually look up to that filthy bigoted cesspit of vile and dribbling stupidity is deeply offensive to a noble and proud species. And by inference to all other unicellular forms of life.
Amoeba are usually gentle and peaceful people. However I must warn you that this has been an extreme provocation and if there is any recurrence of amoeba/slaytanic equivalence I cannot be responsible for possible regrettable acts taken by fringe amoebic groups.
You may end up with the mother of all dysentery cases.
- In the case the hamas lover takes comfort in the idea that hamas is only targeting Jews and Isael and he is therefore safe then he should read this from the leader of Hamas yesterday.
Hamas Leader Khaled Mash’al at a Damascus Mosque: The Nation of Islam Will Sit at the Throne of the World and the West Will Be Full of Remorse – When it’s Too Late February 3, 2006
“America will be defeated in Iraq. Wherever the [Islamic] nation is targeted, its enemies will be defeated, Allah willing. The nation of Muhammad is gaining victory in Palestine. The nation of Muhammad is gaining victory in Iraq, and it will be victorious in all Arab and Muslim lands. ‘Their multitudes will be defeated and turn their backs [and flee].’ These fools will be defeated, the wheel of time will turn, and times of victory and glory will be upon our nation, and the West will be full of remorse, when it is too late….
“They think that history has ended with them. They do not know that the law of Allah cannot be changed or replaced. ‘You shall not find a substitute for the law of Allah. You shall not find any change to the law of Allah.’ Today, the Arab and Islamic nation is rising and awakening, and it will reach its peak, Allah willing. It will be victorious. It will link the present to the past. It will open up the horizons of the future. It will regain the leadership of the world. Allah willing, the day is not far off.
- Paging Sortelli and other long-timers: Do you remember that faux-cannibal, hate-everything guy from about two years ago? (IXLNYX or something like that…anybody remember what it was?) If he decides to stick around, I’m hopeful we can cultivate Mr. slaytanic_inc into something similarly hilarious over time.
- I reckon its great that the Iran newspaper os calling for these cartoons, hopefully they will do it within the bounds of decency… the thing about it that appeals is that it should calm the situation down, let the steam blow out, and demonstrate the old axiom that humour can transcend dogma… perhaps some of the more extreme minority that have been inciting violence from these silly cartoons will rethink their position when they see that one of their own – a media outlet in their own neighbourhood – is not above following suit. Then the underlying principal of freedom of speech and artistic expression will have prevailed over resorting to violence and extremism.Posted by james norman on 2006 02 07 at 08:27 AM • permalink
- The motive for publishing the 12 cartoons was mostly to test whether Muslims were prepared to operate within what the West recognizes as civilized boundaries.
The occasional graceful Muslim response is heartening. About half the time, however, the answer is no ; from the West’s point of view, you’re still dealing with two-year-olds.
The question comes up with some urgency in societies that are newly Muslim “multi-cultural,’’ and so that’s where the test turns up.
I’m willing to believe that Muslims (some or most) really, really care about it; they’ll have to get over it like everybody else does.
With most interest groups, the art of taking offense to get something is pretty highly honed, until it no longer works, that being when people laugh at them.
After that, they give up taking public offense and just manage to fit in, and the matter doesn’t come up again, at least unless the government institutionalizes taking offense as a political card.
In the case of Iran, I don’t think they’re wondering if Jews are ready for prime time. The two-year-old is on the other foot, sort of, doing the publishing ; repeating the same answer that the 12 cartoons got.
- This Linkhas to be about THE most offensive. It came off an avatar at Faithfreedom I’m an ex muslim (converted from husband) myself and I tell you ‘that’ is offensive!
It’s really funny as well – Muhammad’s image popping out of the Koran itself! LOL
- >Was your family accepting of that?
They never knew, and I was living in europe at the time with my then husband 🙂 It was 17 years ago, at a time when headscarves were only worn by old ladies. So, nothing too shocking and we all thought Islam was just a slight variation of Christianity. How wrong we all were!
- #57 Narnian.
Lucky timing. It’s certainly radicalising very fast. Although as we’ve seen just now how orchestrated the whole ‘Islamic Rage’ thing is in a way that only a cult leadershop could plan.
It was orchestrated with the Koran toilet flushing outrage and even the 2nd Palestinian Intifada was orchestrated by Hamas.
- islamically, they rnt even suppoused to be drawing animate objects, let alone making fun of something that isnt even funny..
islam is onli wat u choose to make it, unless u search u will never know wat islam realli is.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:08 AM • permalink
- narnian1, my mum converted to islam 18 yrs ago.. y did u convert if u neva believed it??
and if u have been a muslim u should kno that islam doesnt equal terrorism..
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:09 AM • permalink
- These are quotes by people who werent muslim on muhammad (peace be upon him).. at least get the facts right.. muhammad was a man who lived a poor and simple life even though he couldve lived as a king. he was a person who didnt distinguish himself from others. when journeying with a companion he would take turns holding the bridle while his companion rode. he was not proud or haughty. he was humble and was known byh his people as al-ameen the trustworthy, before he even recieved the revelation.. enjoy 😀
The British philosopher, Thomas Carlyle, who won the Nobel Prize for his book ‘The Heroes’ wrote: “It is a great shame for any one to listen to the accusation that Islaam is a lie and that Muhammad was a fabricator and a deceiver. We saw that he remained steadfast upon his principles, with firm determination; kind and generous, compassionate, pious, virtuous, with real manhood, hardworking and sincere. Besides all these qualities, he was lenient with others, tolerant, kind, cheerful and praiseworthy and perhaps he would joke and tease his companions. He was just, truthful, smart, pure, magnanimous and present-minded; his face was radiant as if he had lights within him to illuminate the darkest of nights; he was a great man by nature who was not educated in a school nor nurtured by a teacher as he was not in need of any of this.”
Dr. Gustav Weil writes in ‘History of the Islamic Peoples ’: “Muhammad was a shining example to his people. His character was pure and stainless. His house, his dress, his food – they were characterized by a rare simplicity. So unpretentious was he that he would receive from his companions no special mark of reverence, nor would he accept any service from his slave which he could do for himself. He was accessible to all and at all times. He visited the sick and was full of sympathy for all. Unlimited was his benevolence and generosity as also was his anxious care for the welfare of the community.”
Annie Besant, wrote in ‘The Life and Teachings of Muhammad’ : “It is impossible for anyone who studies the personality of the great Prophet of the Arabs, and come to know how this prophet he used to live, and how he taught the people, but to feel respect towards this honorable prophet; one of the great messengers whom Allaah sent”
Michael Hart , author of ‘The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History’ said: “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:28 AM • permalink
- proud2be: first, you’d get more respect if your own offerings here were grammatically correct, or at least attempted to approach that state; second, don’t copy other peoples’ writings and pass them off as your own here, or you will be banned. I refer to your third comment, which—considering the badly-spelled, sub-amateurish syntax of your first two comments—I am sure you lifted off some smarter person’s website.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 07 at 09:43 AM • permalink
Michael Hart , author of ‘The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History’ said: “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
I can see Mohammed shouting to assembled reporters at a press conference like John Lennon: “I’m more popular than Jesus!”
- The legal case against the Koran under Victorian Criminal Law is detailed here Post #17.
By the way the relevant law in NSW is Aiding and Abeting Sect 249F of the Crimes Act. ‘A person who aids, abets, counsels, procures, solicits or incites the commission of an offence…is guilty of an offence…’
Perhaps Bracks and Nixon, Iemma and Moron…ey would care to apply the law for the protection of the wider community.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 09:46 AM • permalink
- same restictions as me??? what have u been reading? the same old rubbish that muslims are oppressed and cant investigate others religions???
i actually happen to kno alot about other ppls faiths.. my families a mix to start with, and my own mother was a christian once..
and from ur comments one can tell that u dont kno wat islam is.. either uve got ur knowledge from the wrong place or u have met the wrong ppl…
and the fact that u think that he spent a lot of his life in military campaings is rubbish.. the truth is that he spent a lot of time arbitrating between people, and that he was glad, yes glad, when he made a no war treaty with the quraish of makkah. if u kno islam u will kno wat im on about. if not go do some homework..
peace.
read wat i posted before, it seems that u r not at all objective.. id bet all my money (if betting was permissible 😀 ) that i love jesus and moses (peace be upon them) more than u love muhammad.. and i kno im right
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:47 AM • permalink
- Mohammed can be a great man if you want. It’s your narrative.
Wouldn’t the meaning, the interpretation, of a narrative of a kind , benevolent and sympathetic man, speaking of matters of interpretation here, be an imperative : be kind, benevolent and sympathetic like him?
Why do you get the opposite instead, quite often?
Could it be that, sociologically speaking, the bullies win out? At least until somebody stands up to them?
Which could be going on.
Islam, as the NYT’s Tom Friedman put it, has not had a Reformation yet
- haha goldsmith very funny, muhammad (peace be upon him) would do nothing of the kind:D
he was humble, and kings would come to see him and find him sitting with his companions not knowing who was the leader.. he was not one to show off…
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:50 AM • permalink
- What I keep wondering is: what’s Iran trying to prove with this little Holocaust Humor stunt? Its President is already on record trying to deny the Holocaust. Before “Cartooningrad,” the government of Iran was already sponsoring a “historical review” of Holocaust evidence—i.e. a conference on Holocaust denial.
So we’ll learn that the Iranian government is run by Jew-hating whackjobs? What else is new this week?
- Hey proud2be, see the link and text in post #65 and explain how that direct quotes (in the link) from the Noble Quran isn’t a straight up breach of the criminal law in both Victoria and NSW.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 09:52 AM • permalink
- he is a great man.. and im not the onli one who believes it 😀 along with me are all the muslims of the world, which is a fourth of the population.. plus all those ppl that agree with us, like micheal hart and others…
so its a pretty convincing narrative huh?
and yea jesus (peace be upon him) was loving and truthful.. y do so many christians lie???
because they r not following his example.. same with the musoims.. just coz they aint following muhammad (peace be upon him) as he should be followed doesnt mean it detracts from him.. it detracts form that individuals merit.. and he wouldnt approve of embassy fires..
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:54 AM • permalink
same restictions as me??? what have u been reading? the same old rubbish that muslims are oppressed and cant investigate others religions???
No, that you can’t investigate your own. Since investigation necessarily requires doubt and questioning, and recent (and not-so-recent) events demonstrate that Muslims don’t take kindly to either.
Incidentally, do try using proper grammar and spell words correctly. You’re not typing on a phone.
- ok platey mates will do 😀Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 09:55 AM • permalink
- proud2be: You quote alot of people on what a great guy Mohammed was but he did massacre lots of people, he had sex with a 9 year old girl, he had people killed that criticized him – which does make the reaction to the cartoon thingy understandable – but it doesn’t make me more respectful of him.
(Note: Comments by me have not bearing on Tim Blair)
- Read post #65. The link proves that the Koran is against the law in Victoria. How about Slater and Gordon take on a class action against publishers of the Koran on behalf of victims of terror?Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 09:57 AM • permalink
- re post #65 its time to apply the law. Less emotion and more cold hard application of the rules that apply, allegedly, to everyone in Australia. The Koran is illegal re the post and check the link. Find me a lawyer prepared to apply the law.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:02 AM • permalink
- Sorry if my spelling upset you E. Nough. It’s just the young peoples way of typing. Trust me I get A’s for my English Lit. assignments 😀
Ok platey mates, i hope u dont mind wacked spellings coz its faster to type.
sorry platey mates u need to give me full quotes.. neva take the quraan in pieces and anyway the finish i know or should i say the beginning is that god says:fight those that fight you, and drive u out of ur homes.. and then he says that if they incline to peace u should incline also, for god loves peace.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:04 AM • permalink
- melanie, wheres ur evidence? u cant make allegations with no back up :D.. and ur prob isnt with his marriage.. ur prob is with him.. if u look into the history of that period all girls married early, and so did the guys.. i even heard of one guy married at 13.. and to marry older men was normal too.. anyway, if u believed that he was a prophet of god u wouldnt have a prob with who he married.. and let me remind u she was more mature than the girls today and she AGREED. yes can u belive it they actually asked her? *faint*Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:11 AM • permalink
- This is quite funny and on-topic.
http://82.143.199.189/community/images/91/gallery_15641_full.jpg
- e.nough where did u hear that rubbish? muslims r encouraged to learn more about religion. we r not blind followers, we r believers.. believing means without doubt, meaning u need to eradicate doubt by making sure u love wat uve got.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:16 AM • permalink
- proud2be,
I don’t care about your spelling, but having just checked the quoted Surah in my copy of the Koran we are looking at verse 9:5. Verses 9:4, 9:12, 9:13, 9:14 and 9:15 all call for more war on the idolators ie Christians (we worship the crucifix ‘idol’). The preceding chapter 8 ‘The Spoils’ is largely devoted to instructions to kill the infidels. So you can’t come the ‘out of context’ business here. Neither the Exordium (Ch 1) nor Men (Ch 114) say what you just said. Please send reference.
Regardless of what the Koran says or doesn’t say in pieces, the law is the law and the Koran is in breach of the law. Its as simple as that.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:17 AM • permalink
- u got it wrong, ramadan is the month of mercy, the month of peace. and which villiages were massacred? i onli kno of the villiage madinah where he was called to arbitrate between waring factions. not fight, arbitrate.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:20 AM • permalink
- Re post #65 it refers to the thread titled ‘Not Fair’ didn’t seem to link properly a minute age. Try again.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:20 AM • permalink
- firstly, this is in reference to ppl who broke their treaties… as would america wage war on anyone who broke their peace treaties. and u got it wrong the idolators were the popl of makkah, the quraish.. christians and jews are ahlul kitaab people of the book and ch 1 is about prayer and ch 114 is on seeking refuge in god 😀Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:26 AM • permalink
- #83 proud2be: Ofcourse you don’t know. That’s why I mentioned about objectively understanding Mohammed.
quick goole here
but there is so much to link to.
- Looks like proud2be is taking a beating at the hands of the Koranically well informed blogoshpere. Please proud2be explain how Islam can be the religion of peace when the Koran is a direction to war? Please explain why it is offensive to draw a picture of Mohamed but not to call for your coreligionists to kill me? If you are so concerned about peoples religious values why did your coreligionists destroy the Bamyan statues and trash the Church of the Nativity? Why did your co religionists fire bomb a number of churches in Sydney in December and why did your coreligionists do a drive by shooting on Primary school Cristmas Carols concert in Auburn in December. Why does the religion of peace always invoke violence as the answer to any and every perceived injustice? Could it be because the doctrine of Abbrogation said where two surah appear to contradict each other then the latter is to abbrogate the former? Could it be that the earlier (defunct) surah are the peace love and understanding ones (The Meccan Surah) and the ‘real’ ones are the Medinan surah which are all about killing, war, taking slaves, treating women as half people etc. We won’t even get into the Hadith where I think Bhukari(sp) I think refers to the 9 or 12 year old (and I think last?) bride of Mohammed. Either way he consummated the marriage at 12 according to the Hadith. Melanie is right.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:33 AM • permalink
this is in reference to ppl who broke their treaties
No proud2be there were outright murder fests where the bounty was the treasure and women folk. The truth is Mohammed was your regular barbarian of the day that wrote a manifesto where to question it was sure death – kill apostates. Look at what is happening today. You are so sure that he was so pure, your co-religionist want to silence debate.
- proud2be,
you know we are idolators, which is a term that is synonymous with infidel. If we weren’t why do we have to pay the Jizya, as Bethlehem’s christians will be forced to do according to Hamas policy?
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:37 AM • permalink
- Actually, Iran doesn’t need to hold a contest for new Holocaust cartoons. I’m sure that they’ll find a wide selection in the archives of various Middle Eastern newspapers.Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 07 at 10:41 AM • permalink
- I have a headache from attempting read that semi literate proselytising drivel.
u r nidiot proud2 lotsa ppl rekon
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 02 07 at 10:43 AM • permalink
- ok sorri it took me a while to get back, had some computer probs.. as for the verse i quoted it is found at chapter 2: verse190 – 192..
secondly, the quraan is not directed at war, actually the main topic is tawheed oneness of god. so i dont think uve read the whole thing.
thirdly, who said anyones calling for ur death. in actual fact its prohbited for any muslim to kill u unless u happen to be occupying their land as a miltary body, then they can fight u.
fourthly, we r not allowed to trash churches and do henious acts such as these. there was actually a time when umar ra was in a church and the call for prayer came and the priest invited him to pray in the church but he went outside coz he said “i fear some ppl will come after me and say umar prayed here and build a masjid here” and so he cared and wanted to avoid this atrocity.
fiftly madinan surahs dont abrogate makkan ones.. and the fact is that the hukm laws onli came when they had a state – makes sense huh?
and sixth, aa’ishah was his third wife.. not the last 😀 and she hjappens to be the onli virgin he married so he wasnt a sex crazed maniac as u think.. and may i ask u how many 12 yr olds r sexually active in the west.? maybe not at 12 but by 15 most r.. and so we dont allow exra marital relations and so she was married and she agreed and it was part of the custom of that time. greeks did the same once upon a time.. its called the customs of the times.
and women rnt lesser ppl.. in fact muhammad (pbuh) was asked whom he loved best and he said aaishah.. a woman hello.. he didnt care, we dont judge ppl by gender..
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:44 AM • permalink
- ok sorry my typing is upsetting you. I will try to type properly as i remember. ok as for you pw calling me a moron, thanks 😀 i can take it, after all patience is a virtue. right? and thanks for your comment too pedro.
and melanie i dont need to go to that site, i frequent another one with the same purpose its called apostates of islam.. i have a strong conviction.. you have to to live in the west and be muslim.
and i will try to stay as scholastic as possible.. do i need to put capitals as well?
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:52 AM • permalink
- proud2be is coming across as a thread-diverting troll. Well, perhaps not a full fledged troll, but certainly diverting the thread with his/her “You don’t know Mohammed the way I do!”, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Sounds like David Heidelberg in a different set of robes.
proud2be (whoever you are), many people simply don’t buy into the title “Religion of Peace” because way too many Muslims use Islam as an excuse for violence. The moderate Muslim voice tends to be silenced by the fear of retaliation. The proof of the pudding is in the taste…..calling Islam peaceful is true only if it generally supports peace. No other major religion has a mechanism used to demand retaliation (“fatwa”).
So type away with your faked bad English (your profile has you down as a student, and I doubt you would be at a college….unless you are taking remedial courses). You’ve offered nothing definite to counter what we see as a “Religion of Non-Peace”.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 07 at 10:53 AM • permalink
- Sp, basically, the Iranian press is promising to retaliate against these Mohammed cartoons by… repeating what they and their government have been doing all along?Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 07 at 10:54 AM • permalink
- Ok platey mates as for the jizyah that is for all non-muslims to pay.. its tax, in the event of war they dont have to fight as muslims have to. we have to pay zakah you dont.. does that answer it? and christians were not classed as idolators in those ayahPosted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:55 AM • permalink
- Proud2be,
Al Azhar (sp) Islamic uni in Egypt (leading Sunni theological Uni) pronounced Abbrogation in about 12th Century (I think). This is still the leading uni in Sunni tradition. Re church destruction perhaps you could tell us what happened to the original Church of the Holy Sepulchar or the sacking of St Peter’s Basilica in Rome in 846 AD.
Didn’t take long for the Religion of Peace to destroy all the Churches built between the 4th Century (conversion of Romans to Christianity) and 7th Century arrival in Holy Lands of Arab Muslim invaders from Arabia. There are none surviving to this day. So we can establish that it is a fact that Islam was destroying Christian sites of religious significance long before any Crusade was thought up. It really begs the question why it took the Europeans about 400 years of opporession to fight back.
Re treaties, when Jerusalem was surrendered without a fight to Arabic Islamic invaders the only condition agreed was that freedom of worship would remain. Obviously it didn’t take long till the Muslim’s broke their part of the bargain.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 10:55 AM • permalink
- sorry jeffs, u got it wrong im a high school student.. surprised? im actually ten generation aussie. and so its not faked bad english.. its been refined over many generations.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 10:58 AM • permalink
- Proud2be,
when it comes to fighting Christians do have to fight, as slave soldiers (Janissaries original meaning is wasted life or the like). Only difference is that they didn’t have a choice nor did they get paid. Every year a muster of all infidels is called and a son can be taken for forcible conscription for life into the Army to fight for the oppressors.
Jizya isn’t a tax, rather it is a humiliating protection payment made to stop the protector from continuing the Jihad. under Sharia no infidel has any legal rights in a court of law. Your religion of justice and tolerance at work.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 11:00 AM • permalink
- We shall draw him on the beaches, we shall draw him on the landing grounds, we shall draw him in the fields and in the streets, we shall draw him in the hills; we shall never surrenderPosted by chinesearithmetic on 2006 02 07 at 11:02 AM • permalink
- Explain in detail what you are on about, and then I will answer you. Because the hisotry I know and have learnt from western texts is different. Are you talking about Umar ibn AlKhattaabs invasion of Jerusalem? and if so, yes they didnt fight. why? because they knew they were safe. and the freedom did remain. they were allowed to be judged by their own laws and practice religion and have places of worship. And I believe that until corruption occurred within the muslim nation, and you cant blame muslims actions on islam.. otherwise its part of christianity to bomb okhlahoma.. right?Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:06 AM • permalink
- ok as for you pw calling me a moron, thanks
I didn’t call you a moron, I said you’re typing like one. (You may note I wrote “morons’ way”, not “moron’s way”.) If you’re truly an A student in English, it should be easy enough for you to approximate something resembling adult conversation (in style if not in content). I hate to play the “English isn’t even my first language” card, but there you go: English isn’t even my first language. If I can do it, surely you as a 10th generation Australian can, too?
- Good PW 😀 glad to see you’ve assimilated so well. As Muslims say “Masha Allah.”
Melanie, I got those quotes from a site defending Muhammad (pbuh) from the implications of the cartoons. I’m neither Neo-Nazi nor Anti-Semetic
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:09 AM • permalink
- Proud2be,
re 2:190 after the usual invocations it goes on to say ‘Fight against them until idolatory is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil doers.’ 2:193.
Problem is that all non believers are evil doers. The Koran says we are wicked and evil and are going to the worst fires in hell over and over again. Its pretty hard to miss if you have read the whole book.
The literal interpretation of these surah is that you have to keep fighting till everyone is under Sharia law ala Bin Laden. He isn’t a religious deviant, he is a literalist.
Do you believe the Koran literally or do you believe in independent interpretation? It’s a bit of a problem not to be a literalist as the Koran (meaning the recital) is the literal direct recording of the word of God. To question it is therefore blasphemy, (which is ironically exactly what the Danish cartoonists are accused of) and is punishable by death just like the angry Muslim Imams and mobs are calling for. (just to get back on topic).
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 11:12 AM • permalink
- And Platey Mayes, non-Muslims do have rights in Muslim countries.. they actually get a stipend if they are poor or old, and they are exept from Jizyah for the same reasons. And jizyah is a tax..Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:12 AM • permalink
- proud2b@slaveyboy 61
So unpretentious was he that he would receive from his companions no special mark of reverence, nor would he accept any service from his slave which he could do for himself.
What a guy! He kept on owning that slave, though, didn’t he.
proud2b@illiterate 66
and from ur comments one can tell that u dont kno wat islam is.. either uve got ur knowledge from the wrong place or u have met the wrong ppl…
If you’re going to complain about other people’s ignorance, and your prose looks like this, then you have, and deserve, no chance of being taken seriously. But thanks for the lecture.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 11:13 AM • permalink
- and you cant blame muslims actions on islam.. otherwise its part of christianity to bomb okhlahoma.. right?
If they claim to be doing their actions in the name of Islam, sure it’s possible to blame Islam, especially if it happens again and again and again. Timothy McVeigh made no such claims that he was acting on any Christian beliefs (see here, for instance).
- Platey Mate, if you want to be subject to the death penalty you can be, but don’t put it on Islams’ head. And no the Quraan is not to be taken literally it is to be taken with its’ tafseer. Tafseer is the explanation of the Quraan. The best Tafseer is Ibn kathirs. Search if you wish.
And there are rules for war, and one of them is that those that you are fighting were fighting you. And of course Muslims believe that non-Muslims are
“evil”. Not as in evil people. My gran is not Muslim. And I wouldn’t call her evil. What is meant that the beliefs are “evil”. And this is your word not mine. The word I would use is misguided.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:18 AM • permalink
- Proud2be
I can’t recall the exact time of the destruction of the church of the Holy Scepulchur but it was the immediate cause for the first crusade, along with the ongoing massacre and rape of christian pilgrims to the Holy Land. It is the equivalent of Christians destroying the Kabbah (sp) in Mecca. That puts it around 1000 some time, give or take a decade or two. To my knowledge there were no other wars in the intervening period in Jerusalem (I could be very wrong on that score). The Church was rebuilt during the Crusades and has remained ever since. Thankfully, and unlike the CHurch of the Nativity it remains in Isreal where it is protected and there is genuine religious freedom. As Pope Benedict noted recently there are 71 majority Muslim Countries in the World, there is only true religious freedom in one of those countries – Mali of Timbuktu fame.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 11:19 AM • permalink
- PW, just because someone claims to do something in the name of islam or in the name of anything else,it does not mean you can take their word for it blindly and believe them, you must search for the answers and islam does not encourage such acts,rather it strongly forbids it.Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 11:20 AM • permalink
- glad to see you’ve assimilated so well.
Sorry, but I do not live in a predominantly English-speaking country, I’m German. I guess I’ve “assimilated to” the general standards of this blog, but then it would be a waste of time for everybody involved if I made my posts here in German. Replace “German” with “young people’s way of writing”, and I’m sure you’ll see the point that people have been making.
- Stoop Davy Dave.. you really have stooped low when you find the need to call someone that you are at least twice as old as names that are so low. And I am sorry if my english wasn’t to your liking, I’ve fixed it just for you. 😀Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:22 AM • permalink
- proud2be: jizyah or dhimmi tax. Hamas is now wanting the Christians in the Palestinian territories to pay it. This week they protected them from the ‘Angry Muslims’ who wanted to burn down the churches because of the Mo cartoons. Same thing happend in Lebannon this week. All of a sudden the Christians need to pay for protection and Islam is there to protect. Funny how when the same thing happens elsewhere it is called protection money for the Mafia.
- yeah i agree proud2be@muslimah, these people should respect themselves.Who are they kidding mate?? what a laugh ey..Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 11:24 AM • permalink
- you must search for the answers and islam does not encourage such acts,rather it strongly forbids it.
Two points:
1) How come Islam is the religion of choice for people who want to do bad things in the name of their religion? If Islam discouraged such acts to the same degree as all other major religions, we would expect the number of religiously-motivated terrorists to be spread around a lot more equally.
2) Please show me the internal sanctioning mechanisms of Islam. For starters, I’d be curious to know what happened to all those Palestinians (among other Muslims in the Arab world) who danced in the streets on September 11th and praised Allah for destroying the WTC. Were they ostracized by their communities? Reprimanded at all? Did somebody even tell them they weren’t living up to the standards of Islam that you claim exist?
- Ok Platey Mates, it’s an esrablished historical fact that the Muslims did no such thing, and that that was broadcast as propaganda by the Church as an excuse to retake Jerusalem. And say it did happen? Then I’m saddened as I am, when people claim other violent acts in the name of Islam. Which is an oxymoron, because one of the roots words of Ilsam is peace.
And PW, point taken, sorry if I offended you. I guess it’s harder for the older generation to get used to the younger generations rubbish way of typing.
peace
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:28 AM • permalink
- Melanie, the Jizyah is part of the Islamic Law. As Muslims pay Zakah and must fight for the state, non-Muslims pay Jizyah as their contribution, and they do not have to fight. As for Hamas, they are trying to implement Islamic Law. And so residents pay tax the Muslim way 😀Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:31 AM • permalink
- SORRY PW… and you’ll end up being a girl too, because I’ve been presuming your a guy… 😛Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:33 AM • permalink
- And you are asking about the violence. I will tell you Islams position on war or Jihaad. Jihaad is to be waged on those who oppress Muslims and drive them out of their land. Jihad can also be waged on people who oppress those under their rule. Does that sound too bad?
As for the laws governing it: You can not kill women, children, elderly, and civilians.You can not cut down trees, and should try not to damage infrustructure. Suicide Bombings ARE NOT ALLOWED. Suicide is prohibted.
And just because the only Islam in the media these days is the extreme kind doesn’t mean that it’s the only kind around. Did you know the largest Muslim nation is Indonesia? No army ever conquered them. They converted because they admired the honesty of the Muslim traders from the Muslim world. 😀
PS My younger sister loves German. She wants to learn it. I think all she knows is Guten Morgan and Guten Tag. Excuse my bad spelling.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:40 AM • permalink
- Proud2be,
4:76 ‘The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil.’ Last time I checked the followers of Satan (ie by Koranic definition all of us infidels) were evil. So let me get this right, you are denying that Imams are calling for the death penalty on blasphemers like Rushdie and Danish Cartoonists – I think your on a loser there. It is Islamic Sharia law that imposes death for everything from blasphemy to homosexuality. This includes a 12 year old Iranian girl who is up for the death penalty at the moment because she was raped. (amnesty international currently fighting for her). So it is evident and obvious that Islam demands the death penalty Surah 5:34 ‘Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or cricified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.’ I think that would be another example of incitement under both NSW and Vic criminal law, but hey what the heck, the regular law doesn’t apply to you anyway. The Cops are too scared. Clearly the Danes are up for some death penalty in accordance with Surah 5:34. It is Islam that is putting the death penalty on their head, not just Muslims.
And if Muslims only fought defensive wars how did they get to Tours in France in around 100 years? You should also be aware of the first meeting between Muslims and the USA’s first Ambassador to France Thomas Jefferson who pulled up the Tunisian ambassador to ask why the Barabary Corsairs (Maghreb Muslims) where raiding the USA and taking slaves. His response was that the Koran requires us to make war on the infidel. Not much has changed.
Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 11:42 AM • permalink
- Yes Melanie, I guess that is when it will stop. No fear, you will not have to wear the robe and you will have the freedom to belong to whichever religion you wish and you will also be able to be governed by your laws. You will also be able to knock on the Khaliphs door yourself and tell him what you think of his policies. You under estimate Shariah, it would give you more right to practice your religion than Muslims have in non-Muslim countries.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:44 AM • permalink
- platey mates — Don’t forget the ‘defensive wars’ the men of Islam have been fighting against their own wives and daughters…Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 07 at 11:46 AM • permalink
- How come Islam is the religion of choice for people who want to do bad things in the name of their religion?
Who says Islam is that sort of a religion ey? YOU?You seem to have perceived it as such. Well Islam has no place for people committing acts of terrorism and in fact it does discourage such acts to an even greater degree than other religions. In the Holy Quran. chapter 2 verse 190, Allah (SWT) says:
“Fight in the way of Allah against those who FIGHT AGAINST YOU, but begin not hostilities.Lo!Allah loveth not aggressors.”According to the tafseer or explanation of the Holy Quran,it also further explains that a muslim fighting his opressor is forbidden to kill any women,children,old aged people,livestock and even un armed persons,and it is also forbidden to destroy ANY land whatsoever. Now these are only terms for fair fighting in defence of ones self or land. I agree with the majority that yes, these acts of terrorism are plainly that..ACTS OF TERRORISM! look it up in the dictionary..a terrorist is someone who uses political,racial or religiously provoked violence against civilians to bring about political or social change. There u have it.. what are you complaining about. Islam condemns these people and denounces any of these acts as I stated earlier with evidence.And you claim that other major religions condemn these acts.. you wanted “internal sanctioning mechanisms of Islam”..now I would like some internal sanctioning mechanisms from any other religions thank you.
Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 11:48 AM • permalink
- I will explain again Platey Mates, no one can impose the death sentence except the Khalifah. Second, the people in Denmark aren’t able to be killed under Shariah.
Third, Islam doesn’t call for the death os a raped girl. This is some stupid countries stupid law. Islam calls for the death penalty of the rapist. Not the raped. And isn’t that dandy seeing as it has been proven that rapists often reoffend.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:49 AM • permalink
- If you want to judge Islam by Muslim then you will not be able to ever see what Islam is Platey Mates. I said the wars could also be waged if Kings oppressed their people. Let it be known that spains king oppressed his people, and they helped the Muslim army open spain. There were many such examples as this. As well as others were whole cities accepted Islam and chose to be governed by the Khalifate which was known for its’ justice.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:53 AM • permalink
- Arab Pride,
Jesus said turn the other cheek. It took the constant attacks of Muslims on Christians for Aquinas to devise the just war theory to enable Christians, previously pacificists, to defend trhemselves.
Now Mohammed on the other hand was a great General who fought much of his life. His legacy is war. Jesus preached love and refused to take up the sword even in his own defense to avoid capture by the Romans. His legacy is peace and equality, no matter how imperfectly practiced by Christians. Jesus said all men are born equal, Mohammed said Women are half of men.
Christians created universal human rights, Muslims can never accept this proposition because the Koran defines 3 classes of people, Muslims and Infidels, Men and Women, Masters and Slaves. Women can never become equal to men. This is the basis of gender oppression in Islam.Posted by platey mates on 2006 02 07 at 11:56 AM • permalink
- Rob Read where do you get your facts. He never consumated any marriage with a nine yr old. And the Quraan doesnt say any such things. Bring your evidence if you are of those who tell the truth. And it is sad to see that you have no respect for a quarter of the world. Now I know why the world has so many problems. We have among us people who can not tolerate others. And Muhammad didn’t have epilepsy. But he (pnuh) was illiterate. How did he come uo with a book that astonished the arabs with its’ perfect grammar?
Peace
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 11:57 AM • permalink
- Platey Mates one point I’d like to jump in and make, just to get it over and done with. Women are not half of men. Allah said in the Quraan “ar rijaalu qawaamoona alan nisaa”
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women. What ths meant was that although a woman can work that money is hers, and her husband still needs to buy her clothes pay the rent and feed the kids. Because he is the maintainer. It didnt say he was over her like the boss, or king, no, he is stronger and so he has to maintain her and worl harder. I like it. It means that my husband will work all day and so will I, but only I get rich. 😀
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:03 PM • permalink
- If proud2be@muslimah’s intention was to hijack this thread (and I think it was), he’s succeeded, because I simply cannot read his dozens of comments. It’s far too much effort to wade through all that juvenile txt msg nonsense to puzzle out what he’s trying to say, which seems to be: “Despite all evidence to the contrary, Islam is above reproach”. Sorry, I don’t agree, as the facts on the ground do not support such a conclusion. Don’t bother to reply to this, because I can’t read your “writing”.
- Women aren’t oppressed, I don’t know where you are getting these weird ideas.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:04 PM • permalink
How come Islam is the religion of choice for people who want to do bad things in the name of their religion?
Who says Islam is that sort of a religion ey? YOU?
Umm, no, what says so are the dozens, if not hundreds, of terrorist acts that have been committed by people who claimed to be doing it in the name of Islam, during the last 30 years or so. Please pay attention.
You’re free to claim that these people aren’t “really” Muslims, or are perverting the Muslim faith, but there is no denying that these people believe(d) they were doing what Islam tells them to do. If you’re unable to face that reality, there is little point in talking to you. I don’t waste my time on brainwashed cultists.
- proud2be:
And you are asking about the violence. I will tell you Islams position on war or Jihaad. Jihaad is to be waged on those who oppress Muslims and drive them out of their land.
So we should feel comfort that Sheik Al-Hilaly has said that Aborigines were originally Muslim, making Australia far game?.
Jihad can also be waged on people who oppress those under their rule. Does that sound too bad?
Absolutely bad. It doesn’t to you?
As for the laws governing it: You can not kill women, children, elderly, and civilians.[\quote] It is what you would expect anywhere in the world but you don’t see happening in Muslim countries so much.
You can not cut down trees
Yes, the green vote
and should try not to damage infrustructure.
More effort needed here.
Suicide Bombings ARE NOT ALLOWED. Suicide is prohibted.
Except in Jihad.
- You under estimate Shariah, it would give you more right to practice your religion than Muslims have in non-Muslim countries.
You still haven’t answered the observations that was made reagrding religious freedom in the vast majority of countries that are Muslim. The possession of a bible or references to Christianity are forbidden in many countries, especially Saudi Arabia, home of the holiest Islamic sites.
And your contention that the invasion of France, Spain and Austria were wars of liberation are absurd. If this was true, then why are there repeated calls for the restoration of the caliph of Andalusia?
For starters, I’d be curious to know what happened to all those Palestinians (among other Muslims in the Arab world) who danced in the streets on September 11th and praised Allah for destroying the WTC. Were they ostracized by their communities? Reprimanded at all? Did somebody even tell them they weren’t living up to the standards of Islam that you claim exist?
WELL FOR STARTERS SIR PW.. before we even go there about the Palestinians,Id be just as curious as your good self to know what happened to all those JEWS and CHRISTIANS in the past and in the present who have perpetrated inhumane unimaginable violence against muslims, is everybody blind or are you just as inhumane? the Palestinian people had their lands stolen away from them, their people were viciously slaughtered, there olive trees centuries old, there plantations, there houses THERE OWN LAND!! robbed and taken by the Jews, it is a war zone there. The Jews are running the place they have all the tanks and all the ammo and all the guns, so obviously any chaos there is caused by them. They are foul and cold people, but everyone is just blind to the real facts, because there actions are not publicised as well as the actions of a muslim are. How dare you question these defenseless people about rejoicing over this when they have had nothing to rejoice over for so long. Would’nt you be doing the same?? If ure mother was raped and your father was murdered and your house was stolen from you and you werent even able to defend yourself. PLease, i would have gone insane if i was in their position!! You havent even ever experienced hardships as hard as theres..and you expect them to act humanely and silence themselves, its only normal for them to be this upset and angry over what has happened to them in the past..so before you question plaestinians..and islams view on this..question the religions which you so strongly stand for. I dont see any Rabbi’s going into palestine and openly denouncing these acts, I must say I have witnessed Christian leaders denouncing such acts and I am happy with that. Lets just say with every action theres is an equal and opposite reaction. Palestinians have been opressed all their lives, it is all they know. So dont get so uptight about them marching in a street, what im trying to say is that islamically No they musnt march in the streets supporting this, but understand at least where they are coming from as PEOPLE who have been mistreated all their lives, would u not feel the same way? well i know i would. and like they march in the streets and they should be condemned..well the publishers of tehse slanderous cartoons of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) should be condemned as well.. an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, fair and square!! it works both ways mate.
Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 12:08 PM • permalink
- #102 Proud2b says, “sorry jeffs, u got it wrong im a high school student.. surprised?”
I’m surprised too. I thought you certainly would be a teen age car burner locked safely away in a lonney bin.
#102 says, “im actually ten generation aussie. and so its not faked bad english.. its been refined over many generations.”
So your bad english is not faked but your bad “english” has been refined over many generations to “perfected” bad english. No surprise there.
Tried to follow your imperfect grammar, faux moral claims for Islam and faked historical references (refined over many generations), and ignorance of or failure to acknowledge the facts on the ground (such as child sacrifice by Muslims in the form of suicide bombers) in your subsequent blogs, and conclude that you have plagerised the Clift notes of oily Muslim clerics who urge on the faithful to be-head, burn, torture, kidnap,etc.,etc while claiming to the Liberal weasels of the West that the Muslies are either misunderstood or justified in their murderous barbarism. Well, off I go to enjoy a Danish ham and cheese sandwich and a bonny Lager (sp?) while perusing the latest Danish cartoons. Bon apetite!
- I need to stop reading threads bottom-up…
You under estimate Shariah, it would give you more right to practice your religion than Muslims have in non-Muslim countries.
This statement is just so far removed from reality (both in the perception of shariah, as well as in the perception of religious freedoms in non-Muslim countries), I’m seriously starting to wonder if there’s any point in engaging with our young believer here.
- Sorry RebeccaH. Muslimah is the female version of Muslim. Meaning I am: A GIRL. Ten out of Ten. And I have fixed my writing style, smile, life’s too short to be miserable.
And no that wasn’t my point. My point was, “Islam is built on Five Pillars: 1 To testify God is One and He has no partner and that Muhammad (pbuh) is His last Messenger. 2 To Pray 5 times a day. 3 To pay 2.5% of your wealth in charity yearly. 4. To fast the month of Ramadan. and 5. To make Hajj once in you life time if you are able.
Does anyone see anything about war? Or hating people? Or terrorism?
No.. Obviously.. Because that’s not Islam.
You want to trash Islam? First learn what you’re on about.
Peace
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:11 PM • permalink
- #148: Sorry APtDK, you’ve just transitioned into nutcase territory. (I hope proud2be will resist the urge to follow.) Yeah, yeah, Muslims are oppressed everywhere, those evil Christians and Jews never let you live in peace, what was done by Christians and Jews a thousand years ago justifies current Muslim atrocities, yaddayaddafuckingyadda. If you live in Australia or any other Western country, I hope they throw your terror-supporting ass out of the country ASAP. Go live in the Islamic Utopia that is the Middle East.
- Is this is an example of Arab pride, then this explains a great deal.
1. To say that terrorists are defenseless is ludicrous. The death toll is proof of that.
2. If you’re interested in the plight of Palestinians, please explain the deaths of Palestinians at the hands of Arab/Muslim countries, especially Jordan.
3. They have all the tanks. Really? Then what did Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq attack Israel with?
4. An eye for an eye, eh? Please explain the use of children and persons who are mentally retarded as bombers. I don’t recall the IDF ever sending in children to commit the massacres that you assign them.
- proud2b@slaveyboy 121
Yes that’s nice about the grammar. But you’re still defending the last religion on earth to repudiate slavery. Or I should say, the “next” such religion, since your lovely religion-of-peace hasn’t yet advanced quite that far. Get back to me in another six centuries, eh?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 12:19 PM • permalink
- Oh yes, in addition, p2bwhatever: everyone here has learned the definition of taqiyyah. So your efforts to gloss over the facts are transparent and ineffective. You might as well give it up, you aren’t convincing anyone.
Back on topic:
“The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let’s see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons,” he asserted.
Won’t Mr. Mortazavi be embarrassed when printing Holocaust cartoons are reprinted and don’t result in riots, burnings, and shootings? Nah, probably not.
You under estimate Shariah, it would give you more right to practice your religion than Muslims have in non-Muslim countries.
When I can attend services at the First Baptist Church of Mecca or Temple Beth Israel in Medina, I’ll believe you.
You’re a recent convert, aren’t you, proud2be?
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 02 07 at 12:20 PM • permalink
- Ok Melanie there are no exceptions. Sorry to disappoint you. Suicide is suicide and all the respected shuyookh don’t allow it.
PW, as a matter a fact my one and only trip overseas was to Saudi Arabia, and enjoyed it. The people there respected me a lot more than my fellow country men here. But Australia is my home. And the women were not oppressed. The men I met valued their wives and the wives didn’t feel at all oppressed.
As for stats, my beliefs are not ten generation They are first or second, depending on which way you look at it.
PW, you don’t really understand Shariah thats whats wrong. Because there hasn’t been a living example since both of us were born. Oh and while we were on the Arab thing, my step dad is algerian, an arab :D, and I am not oppressed…
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:21 PM • permalink
- Re: “You under estimate Shariah, it would give you more right to practice your religion than Muslims have in non-Muslim countries.”
Yes, just like the proud tolerance exercised in the home of Islam, Saudi Arabia, not to mention how things work out where sharia has been actually implemented, like Afghanistan.
Folks, give her a break. She’s parroting the same sort of stuff about the “Religion of Peace” I was taught in college. There are millions upon millions of well-intentioned people who are required to selectively ignore huge chunks of the Koran and the historical record to remain Muslim. She does not know any better, and likely never will.
- spiny norman you underestimate me, I may be young, but I have been muslim for my whole life, and my mum converted three days before I was born. if I chose to be christian or any other faith I would find support for it from my mothers’ family. So I have chosen islam myself, and studied it.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:24 PM • permalink
- If a slave is absolutely convinced he is doing as God intended, is he oppressed?Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 02 07 at 12:25 PM • permalink
- #156 RebeccaH:
Won’t Mr. Mortazavi be embarrassed when printing Holocaust cartoons are reprinted and don’t result in riots, burnings, and shootings? Nah, probably not.
If anything, they’ll probably result in more riots by Muslims in the Middle East after they take those Holocaust cartoons to be the revealed truth. You never know what will excite those lads next.
I’m actually curious to see if they’ll manage to follow one consistent set of beliefs in those cartoons…the usual style is that half will downplay and make fun of the holocaust, and the other half will claim it never happened to begin with. Oops, cognitive Arab dissonance coming in 5, 4, 3…
- You’re free to claim that these people aren’t “really” Muslims, or are perverting the Muslim faith, but there is no denying that these people believe(d) they were doing what Islam tells them to do. If you’re unable to face that reality, there is little point in talking to you. I don’t waste my time on brainwashed cultists.
ahahahahahaha..PW i must say although I am being completely serious here your failure to understand what im saying so plainly and then you proceeding to call me a brainwashed cultist is completely amusing. I am facing the reality like u asked me to,and the reality is that these people plainly have a false belief and obviously do not understand their own religion which is a pity, evidently just as much as you dont understand it yourself. The important thing is I as a Believer understand it myself and if noboydy else does its their loss in the eyes of Allah not mine. I am not a brainwashed cultist either, because if i was then I would actually be SUPPORTING what they are doing and saying that Islam does too, but seeing as how I am clearly not, then how could i possibly be a brainwashed cultist, perhaps you should face the reality that you are just too stubborn to accept the fact that Islam condemns these people and that they are wrong, you’ve failed to bring Islam down so your last resort lies with using terrorist muslims as a representation of islam to make it look bad. There is a difference between Islam and a Muslim, just like there is between the old testament and the new testament, the Christian people have changed the Bible around to suit themselves. Incase you havent relaised muslims ARE human beings just like tehse christians and they may perceive their religion differently to what it actually states, and if they have then they are not considered as muslims according to islam, and through this false perception it may lead to what you call terrorist acts which is also forbidden in islam ill have u know for the millionth time, something which u obviously cant face..
Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 12:26 PM • permalink
- mkoenecke, that comment proves that you don’t know Islam. Saudi happens not to be run on Shariah.. and i never heard that Afghanistan was declared a Khalifate… ehem many non Muslims work in Saudi happilyPosted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:27 PM • permalink
- One can debate the theology of Islam interminably: as Muslims do, otherwise why would there be so many sects that disagree on fundamentals? As a practical consideration, in the temporal context, Islam is as Islam does. If the Muslims engaged in wholesale acts of terrorism are acting outside of Sharia, then let them be ostracised and condemned by what we are constantly exhorted to believe is the Muslim majority. As to the assertions made by one Muslim woman that she is not oppressed and that Islam does not overtly lend itself to triumphalist, military and political expansionism, I would have to say that we who have eyes to see are not blind and can read news reports practically every day of “honor” killings, of suicide bombings, of the murder of Christian school children, and so on ad infinitum. Maybe these things are a perversion of Islam, but when many of these incidents are jusitified in the public utterances and written commentaries of imams, then I think we can be excused for thinking – and acting – on the basis of self-preservation, without feeling an obligation to be overly concerned with the splitting of theological hairs.
- Anyone else as tired of these two threadjacking children (proud2be and “Arab pride”) as I am? You’re never going to get anything into their pointy little heads; their minds are firmly planted in “we young people are right the old fogeys are wrong” territory. It’s pointless and server-space-wasting, but I’m feeling as magnanimous as a sheik with forty fresh camels today, so I’ll put it to a vote: ban or keep?Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 07 at 12:32 PM • permalink
- Oh sorry Stoop, I forgot. I will answer you now.
Islam actually was trying to phase out slavery. So many sins require a Muslim to free a slave, and freeing a slave was seen as the ultimate good. The Prophet also followed suit and freed his slaves,a nd he wouldn’t allow his family a slave. Slaves were part of that cuture, but through the yrs it has become non existant as planned.
Many of the Muslims were once slaves, including one of our beloved, Bilal, who was the first muathin (caller of the athaan)
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:33 PM • permalink
- #148 Arab Pride: 1948, the Jews accept the partition plan; Seven Arab states and local Jordanians (since calling themselves “Palestinians”) attacked the Jews with the well publisized intent of killing them or driving them into the sea. OOPs! You barbarians failed and suffered humiliating defeats. Since then you’ve tried again and again, in the late ‘40s and early 50’s using guerilla tactics to kill Israelis and so on and on until you resorted to strapping bombs to childrens backs and sent them off to kill innocent people. In between you used direct warfare as well as infant-icadas against Israel. And you have been humiliated again and again. Oh, you stamp your feet, they raped my mother, yah,yah,yah. If you start a war, jackass, there are going to be atrocities, but the atrocities committed by the Jews pale against those committed by the Paleos, not only against the Jews, but against their own (Remember Black September?).
So, you say, “Palestinians have been opressed all their lives, it is all they know.” Hey, who has been doing the oppressing? From 1948-1967, the West Bank was theirs. The Arafats were the ones doing the oppressing, until they were expelled by the Jordanians. The foolish Israelis were the ones who brought Arafat back to the West Bank under Oslo. Since then he and his minions (as even the Palestinians admit) have crushed the Palestinians under one-man, one party rule, lining their pockets, and that of Arafat’s wife with billions of dollars given by the Western Aid. Ask yourself, Where has all this money gone? In the meantime, business being so good for the Arafities, they refused ever offer of negotiation, even turning down an off of 97% on the west bank by the Barak government. Instead, Arafat turned his children loose to die for his greed, and those of his cronies, in the infant-icide. And now the Palestinians, fed up with the corruption and oppression of the inheritors of Arafatism have done what is most sensible for Palestinians, they have elected a bunch of Islamist-thugs to act as the new oppressors.
Hey, you want an “eye for an eye” with respect to these Danish cartoons. There aren’t enough horrific, hateful, mindless, idiotic cartoons to be found in the Muslim press against the West, Christians and Jews? Well, learn to draw instead of slashing and burning.
- No Melanie I haven’t got work today, I’m a student, I’ve got school today.
Andrea, if you are to ban me, I would please ask for an explanation of why. Because far from being abusive, I have been abused… And I have broken no blog rules.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:37 PM • permalink
- proud2b@pro-paedophile
Stoop Davy Dave.. you really have stooped low when you find the need to call someone that you are at least twice as old as names that are so low.
Yeah, and if I were 53 years old, and you were 9 years old, and I decided we should be married, how low would I be stooping then? Your lovely prophet, you see, is famous for having a 9-yr-old bride. Oh but of course she “consented” after an informed review of her options, yeah right, she “consented.”
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 12:38 PM • permalink
148: Sorry APtDK, you’ve just transitioned into nutcase territory. (I hope proud2be will resist the urge to follow.) Yeah, yeah, Muslims are oppressed everywhere, those evil Christians and Jews never let you live in peace, what was done by Christians and Jews a thousand years ago justifies current Muslim atrocities, yaddayaddafuckingyadda. If you live in Australia or any other Western country, I hope they throw your terror-supporting ass out of the country ASAP. Go live in the Islamic Utopia that is the Middle East
Did i say opression of a thousand years ago? No I said opression past and present. Go to Palestine first before you talk like you know it all. Your resort to using foul language just goes to show that your just as intolerant as those terrorists u despise so much? and what is it with u people anyway? your all getting so mad about something that doesnt even affect you. Youre all comftorbaly living in your little homes with your little familes and your money and every other thing ure lustful being desires, yet other people and i dont mean muslims only across the globe will never taste such things, you’ve probably never even experienced war, or had someone aim a gun at your head, just like some young paelstinian child of five would of had to experience somewhere there. I mean, youve probably never gotten into a fight with someone. So Ill take my terrorist supporting ass to the middle east, and u can take ur pussy whipped chicken ass to the middle east so you can toughen your self up a little, ya know, get the hang of what they feel fist before opening your mouth.
Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 12:40 PM • permalink
- Okay, one more response to the nutcase:
The important thing is I as a Believer understand it myself and if noboydy else does its their loss in the eyes of Allah not mine.
In other words, if you were the only Muslim not to commit terrorist acts, you’d still be the one who gets to define what Islam is all about, and the others don’t? (You’d certainly still be a believer in Allah, but would you be a follower of Islam?)
Colour me unconvinced. You’re merely deluding yourself about your brothers in faith here. You can say that they’re not following Islam as you understand it until you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t change the fact that large sections of the Muslim faith disagree with you on that point. If you’d like to change non-Muslim perceptions of Islam, kindly direct your ire at those who create those perceptions, i.e. Islamists. Shooting the messenger is all too easy, but I can see why you’d do it…I bet you’re more than a bit afraid of Muslim extremists, and you’d never tell them to their face that you don’t consider them “real” Muslims. Arab Pride, my ass. Your posting handle should be “Hurt Feelings”.
- I am excercising one of the rights freedom of speech gives me : to defend my religion and my Prophet, and far from being childish I have conducted myself in an orderly manner. But a person always knows thy’ve won when other feel the need to abuse them and put them down. Are my arguments so disturbing to you that you feel unable to bear them?
Peace
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:41 PM • permalink
- Proud2be, you’ve got to be a troll. No one, not even a Muslim, can be as ignorant as you are making yourself out to be. Come on, let us in on the joke. It’s David Heidelberg again, isn’t it? Mushtaq Omar rides again, surely.
But if not, I shudder to think of the secondary school that is giving you As for your English Lit. assignments. I know that standards are abysmally low in our government schools but they are doing a cruel disservice to you in deceiving you that your level of English is above the illiterate. You’ve got to be getting what passes for an education in Victoria, aren’t you?
I’m sure that they’re equally deceiving of you when they teach you history. Let’s look at your post 61.
First, Thomas Carlyle did not win the Nobel Prize for anything. He died in 1881, twenty years before the Nobel Prize was instituted and Nobel Prizes are not awarded posthumously. In any event, if you had taken the time to read Carlyle on Heroes you’d see why he’d never have been a candidate for the Nobel Prize for Literature even if he was alive when it was instituted. It’s an incoherent rant, definitely not in the class of Laureates such as George Bernard Shaw or W.B.Yeats.
Secondly, Gustav Weil believed and sought to prove that Muhammad had epilepsy, in order to account for the strange and inchoate revelations that make up the Koran.
Thirdly, Annie Besant, the founder of the Theosophical Society, was a complete whacko and it is surprising that you quote her as any authority on Muhammad or Islam as she claimed her adopted son Jiddu Krishnamurti was the new Messiah and incarnation of Buddha. Hardly consistent with Islam’s teaching that Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets. She’d be in for a good stoning in modern day Iran if she tried to pedal that sort of nonsense there.
Finally Hart’s comment was an observation on Muhammad’s influence in history, not his merits. You could equally say that Genghis Khan had a great influence in history and not say that it was a good thing.
I don’t blame you for your ignorance of history, though. I blame whatever school it is that you go to, which seems to be dedicated to giving you an inferior education.
- common liar 131
Suicide Bombings ARE NOT ALLOWED. Suicide is prohibted.
Gee, then it’s hard to explain why the ONLY people in the world who DO suicide bombings are (or claim to be) Muslims. Maybe you need to explain to THEM how un-Islamic they are.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 12:43 PM • permalink
- proud2be,
Are my arguments so disturbing to you that you feel unable to bear them?
No dearie, they’re ridiculous propaganda that we’ve heard over and over again and we’re just sick and tired of having the same arguments with every new group of apologists.
Andrea,
It’s pointless and server-space-wasting, but I’m feeling as magnanimous as a sheik with forty fresh camels today, so I’ll put it to a vote: ban or keep?
Well, if the rest of us could control ourselves, ignore would be a better option.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 02 07 at 12:47 PM • permalink
- Yeah thats right you nailed it sweety, I would still define and defend islam,because i know how Allah has defined Islam, if all the muslims in the universe committed these acts and I was the only one who didnt, then so be it. I would still not blame my religion. And your again right when you said id certainly still be a believer in allah, and well duh what a stupid question would i be a follower of islam well of cousre i would because islam was sent by allah, it is not defined by people. All your saying is that it is basically, so your still not getting the point. Loosen up abit, your too tense. And your such a crack up by the way, how you said I would be afraid to tell them that they werent real muslims to their face, well pfff i bet you wouldnt even tell em anything youd probably bow down and kiss their feetPosted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 12:47 PM • permalink
- Stoop I have told you she wasn’t nine, she was 12. and it was the custom of the time. None of the Quraish were worried about this 1400 yrs ago. They were married. A peadophile os not married to their victim. And I am not a pro peadophile. You dont seem to be able to comment without insulting somone. And stoop if I lived 1400 yrs ago, and the person i loved was a lot older than me maybe I would’ve married them, miracles never cease.
peace
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:47 PM • permalink
- Every blessed Muslim on Earth is convinced that he or she alone knows what “true Islam” means, and that competing views are not “true Islam.” E.g., Osama bin Laden, who believes as strongly that people like “proud2be” are perverting Islam as “proud2be” thinks he is. Many of us know *exactly* what “proud2be”‘s vision of Islam is, because we were taught the exact same thing. Later we learned that that simply represents a point of view, and is by no means definitive in any sense of the word.
- Arab pride:
terrorist is someone who uses political,racial or religiously provoked violence against civilians to bring about political or social change. There u have it.. what are you complaining about. Islam condemns these people and denounces any of these acts as I stated earlier with evidence
So why do almost all Muslims support terrorism agains Israelis?
- Arab Pride, my ass. Your posting handle should be “Hurt Feelings”.
thanks PW..and uve already done the hard work for me.. yours is PW FOR PUSSY WHIPPED..lmao.. what goes around comes aronund ey how easy was that?
Posted by Arab Pride the Don Killuminati on 2006 02 07 at 12:50 PM • permalink
- #167 Andrea: Their unintentional expose of the infection of Muslim induced delusion is instructive. These two (?) are neither receptive to facts nor logic, so they are a rare species to be found on this blog. Having them here saves my time since I don’t need to go to leftist blogs to study such insects. It is true, they will wear since the parroting of the Muslim insane cleric story line adds nothing to the illumination of facts in progress. I vote to keep them around a little longer until the space they use is better employed elsewhere.
- Arab Pride: Dos Killuminati allude to this Global Revolutionary Change. and the enemy is the Illuminati?
Nutcase!!
- well im not going to take your word for it, but i will certainly check your claims out tempo, and i go to a government school, so blame the good old governemnt system.
What about Micheal Hart?? Is he nuts and spastic too for putting Muhammad (pbuh) on the top of his list?
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:55 PM • permalink
- I never said OBL was perverted.. excuse me.. Until I’ve met him myself I won’t pass jugdement on a Muslim.Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 12:57 PM • permalink
- Ehem there is no terrorism against Isrealias??? There are only angry little boys with rocks fighting the braze Isreali Militants with the latest war technology…
If youre talking about Suicide Bombings,then I dont condone them. But thnk why they happened.. Because the young boys mum wasnt allowed to pass to go to work to get money to buy food to support the family, or the dad.
Posted by proud2be@muslimah on 2006 02 07 at 01:00 PM • permalink
- Ehem there is no terrorism against Isrealias??? There are only angry little boys with rocks fighting the braze Isreali Militants with the latest war technology…
If youre talking about Suicide Bombings,then I dont condone them. But thnk why they happened.. Because the young boys mum wasnt allowed to pass to go to work to get money to buy food to support the family, or the dad.
Dear goodness, can somebody please bring in a stronger deprogramming unit than we’ve been using so far?
- proud2be: What a load of crock. The checkposts wouldn’t be there if Palestinians refrained from blowing themselves up. Before the 1st Intifada the Palis were better of on average than any other Arab in the Middle East. They started the carnage before 1967. Enough of the excuses. You cannot handle Israel because they are Non-Muslim. Fact.
- I have to head off proud2be. I would be really impressed if you read something on Mohammed’s Life that wasn’t on your regular reading list. I’m sure some people here could suggest a few links. I know you didn’t ready what I linked to.
Prove your conviction and read them and comment back to us.
Have a nice day.
- Cruella 167
Anyone else as tired of these two threadjacking children … as I am?
I am, but I don’t want to play to their victim trip by “crushing their dissent,” especially when one of them SEEMS to be making some amount of effort to actually argue her case. That other asswipe, ASPtDKiluminati however, is a standard-issue, question-dodging, grievance-trading troll, and should be blown out immediately. Just my humble opinion.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 01:20 PM • permalink
- “yours is PW FOR PUSSY WHIPPED” –
PW:
Do you get the feeling you’re arguing with a cab driver?Andrea: You do what you want, but I’ve got to tell you that I’m not even bothering to wade through Arab Pride Donkey Luminatti’s stuff anymore; the poor fellow is practically raving, and the error-strewn desert of his grammar and syntax gives me a headache. As for Proud 2B, I find her comments to be loaded with non sequiturs, and much of what she says strikes me as somewhat lacking in the finer points of logic, but she is not offensive and seems to be trying, in her own way, to engage in an honest exchange of ideas.
- Oh dear, proud2be, not only does your school fail you in English Lit and history but in comprehension. I will repeat what I wrote:
“Finally Hart’s comment was an observation on Muhammad’s influence in history, not his merits. You could equally say that Genghis Khan had a great influence in history and not say that it was a good thing.”
No he’s not nuts or spastic. If you had read his work you would undertand that his obsevation was about influence in history, with Isaac Newton as number two and Jesus Christ coming in third. However it is NOT a judgement of the merits of what the persons listed accomplished. Karl Marx, Vladimir Ilych Lenin and Mao Zedong are in Hart’s list. Even Genghis Khan gets a guernsey.I don’t think that a list that includes them is a beauty contest as to who has done the most good in the world. It’s just a list of who’s been the most influential in history, whether for good or bad.
I’d suggest that you discuss this with your history teacher but given how ill-served you are by the institution that you are going to that would most likely be a waste of time.
And please do check out my claims. You can easily do that on Google. When you have done so reflect on how unreliable the source was that gave you your original information. Then resolve that in future you will independently verify whatever is told to you before you rely on it. At that point your education will have really started.
- proud2excuse@slavery
Islam actually was trying to phase out slavery.
It “was” was it? Well when did it stop trying? Why does it still go on TODAY?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 07 at 01:24 PM • permalink
- Andrea,
If they (Proud2be & Arab Pride) kept on-topic I might feel otherwise. But for the continueing thread-jacking.
I vote for ban.
Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2006 02 07 at 01:28 PM • permalink
- Do you get the feeling you’re arguing with a cab driver?
Honestly, I’m not quite sure who or what I was arguing with there, but cab driver is probably way too charitable.
The “pussy-whipped” quip is almost too perfect though…you just know that it’s the kind of insult that Westernized Muslim men fear the most (“You…you…you Treating-Women-As-Equal’er!”), so he must think I’m about to go into blinding rage because of him calling me that as well. 🙂
- And my ban-or-not-ban opinion parallels a couple of you guys…Arab Dunderhead the Killer Nutty might as well get trashbin’ed for all I care. He started out on the victim trip, so we might as well bring it full circle and crush his dissent. p2b is rather tiresome in her unexamined assumptions and half-knowledge (I’m this close to saying “EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG”), but she’s making an attempt at honest debate, so let’s not cut that off prematurely, IMHO.
- Do you kind of get the feeling Iran is desperate to keep this issue boiling?
Syrian agents are still in control of Lebanon, so Syria as well, is desperate to keep this issue boiling?
What you are seeing here, is dhimmification by intimidation and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t seem like it’s working. Ridiculous as that sounds, it seems to be working.
This worlds once upon a time, determination to join and defeat a common enemy no longer exists.
- #201: you just know that it’s the kind of insult that Westernized Muslim men fear the most (“You…you…you Treating-Women-As-Equal’er!”)
How right you are .
- I don’t think that either of them are debating honestly.
Proud to be whatever has repeatedly dodged any reference to the point they made regarding oppression of other faiths in the overwhelming majority of Muslim countries. The closest that he/she came was some comment that Saudi Arabia was not under Sharia law, and that foreign workers were happy. So, the oppression that does indeed exist is purely coincidental to Islam and its dominance in that and other countries?
As for Arab Pride, the interminable rantings have descended below basement level. First he states a rabid pro-Palestinian view, and when rebutted, he spirals off into an inane rant that only those who have been there can judge.
Gee, since the Israelis are our closest allies over there, we should take your advice and listen only to them. You’d agree to that wholeheartedly, right?
- #207: Maybe we need to get an instruction manual so we can tell the fake Muslims from the real ones (kind of like the pictures they show teller-trainees to help them tell counterfeit bills from the genuine article).
Blue Hen: I suppose you’re right; Proud2B does do some pretty fast dodging. Of course, I made the point that she was inoffensive, not that she was sensible. BTW, you’re not from Delaware by any chance,are you?
As a matter a fact my one and only trip overseas was to Saudi Arabia, and enjoyed it. The people there respected me a lot more than my fellow country men here. But Australia is my home. And the women were not oppressed. The men I met valued their wives and the wives didn’t feel at all oppressed ]Interesting: http://farahssowaleef.blogspot.com/
- Father Andrea, a Catholic Priest, was slain in Turkey by a Muslim High School Student. The reason? You guessed it:“The student told police he was influenced by cartoons lampooning the Prophet Mohammad, NTV commercial television said.” (The News Report can be found on Michelle Malkin and elsewhere.) I suppose this student has been
enrolled in the same curricula as “proud2b”.
Now those with Arab Pride and Proud2b get ready, stamp your feet in unison and cry “Wah, Wha, Wha, but he’s not a Real Muslim ‘cause Real Muslims are prohibited from performing such barbaric act. Besides, he was justified, and besides, it didn’t really happy, and besides it was a Zionist who did it, and besides he was driven crazy because my mother was raped on the West Bank of La, La land, and besides, don’t you remember what happened in 1200 AD and…”
- Interesting.
Glenn Reynolds was here. That’s so cool!
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 2006 02 07 at 03:16 PM • permalink
- #190 Proud2b”I never said OBL was perverted.. excuse me.. Until I’ve met him myself I won’t pass jugdement [sic] on a Muslim.”
This nuthag can’t pass judgement on someone who boasted in a number of his made for TV videos of the killing of 3000 innocent men, women and children, but she gets upset by a bunch of silly cartoons. She’s insane. I change my vote. Stupidity can be tolerated because it is hoped that one can learn, but there is no hope for the insane. Knock her out, please.
- Her “won’t pass judgement” statement is quite illustrative of one thing, at least, that being the Muslim “us vs. them” attitude. Sure, somebody like Killer Nutty may say that any number of hypothetical people aren’t real Muslim, but try getting them to say it about a specific one. No, when faced with the choice of passing negative judgment on a Muslim who’s committing atrocities or lashing out at a non-Muslim who’s pointing out those atrocities, the non-Muslim will cop it every time.
Until the time that Muslims understand that they themselves are responsible first and foremost for cleaning up their own religion, nothing will change.
I would still define and defend islam,because i know how Allah has defined Islam, if all the muslims in the universe committed these acts and I was the only one who didnt, then so be it.
Arab Whatshisname The Cuckoo Clock sums it all up right here. The ultimate in denial, blame deflection, and victimization. “I’m right, and everyone else is wrong, but hey, that’s not my problem!” Everything else pales in comparison.
And I stopped reading him after I saw this….besides, my brain was hurting from his tortured syntax.
Speaking of syntx, I’m not convinced that “proud2be” is what he/she claims to be. There’s too much of the thread diversion involved. His/her answers are way responsive to the questions, moving the goalposts back and forth. If not David Heidelberg, then certainly some similar idiot.
And their time was not well spent—no one here bought their line of crap.
Andrea: ban ‘em both. They offer zero intelligent input, and are more abusive of the blog than anything.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 07 at 04:11 PM • permalink
Until the time that Muslims understand that they themselves are responsible first and foremost for cleaning up their own religion, nothing will change.
This fits in with the (false) claims that “Muslims are victims!” meme. Abu The Idiot demonstrated this clearly with his silly rant about Isreali tanks.
And this is why Tim’s earlier quip on this not being a clash of two civilizations is both funny and true. Until the Muslims in general (and Arabs in particular) accept responsibility for their actions, there is no civilization. Just a bunch of children with weapons. Dangerous children, mind you, but children none-the-less.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 07 at 04:15 PM • permalink
- i find that joe the camel guy on the cigarette packs very offensive towards all mo men.
real camels look nothing like that and aren’t nearly as cool…..it’s an insult to the heritage and history of the mo men and should be result in large scale riots outside the cigarette company’s headquarters.
ban all camel cigarettes i say!!!
- Andrea, proud2b@muslimah hasn’t descended into the usual foul language and name calling and has defended Islam, which is his (her?) right to do. However, we’re all talking in circles here, as p2b keeps dodging the hard questions, ignoring documented facts, and repeating the same things over and over. I’d vote for ignore, but the thread is definitely hijacked. Ban.
As for Arab Pride, no question. Ban that txt msging jackass.
- But, but, but … isn’t it about pictures being nasty things and inducements to idolatry?
Apparently not. Saddam had huge pictures of himself all over Iraq – an encouragement to idolatry that should have had him deposed by conservative muslims if that argument really applied. Like wise the Assads in Syria.
They have rubbery rules, woolly thinking, and forked tongues.
- I agree that Proud2 etc was a fake. The consciously corrupted spelling which immediately corrected when challenged, the sudden claim that she was a girl, the claim to be just a poor widdle high school student and the claim to be a 10th generation aussie. Sorry but unless your aboriginal that’s very unlikely; my forebears came out in the 1830s and i’m still only 4th generation (and no i’m not that old).
And if not fake then scary.
- Further on the Insanity of Proud2b: Her #190 already commented on. #191, states, “If youre talking about Suicide Bombings,then I dont condone them. But thnk why they happened.. Because the young boys mum wasnt allowed to pass to go to work to get money to buy food to support the family, or the dad.” I asked my daughter if she would strap a bomb to my grandchild’s back and head him into the city square to suicide murder innocents because she couldn’t pass a road block. She glared at me, then called my son in law to keep me tied up until she could get me to an insane asylum. Enough said.
(Of course, Proud2b does condone suicide bombings just for the reason she gives. Proud2b fails to mention the reasons for the road blocks, fails to note that the Palestinians have been on Western Country dole for 50 years, and the money (as Palestinians admit) has gone into the pockets of their corrupt leaders instead of the cupboard of the poor hypothetical mama, and fails to note the $ rewards given by Sadass H., $25,000 for each child sold to death, and others to so-called mothers who indulge in child sacrifice. Perhaps Mama should have sent her child to Paris to blow some money out of Suha Arafat.)
- Why would one think that little, inoffensive Delaware would hurt anybody? Just because we’ve got lots of chemicals and banks and borders that somehow span rivers into another state? (weird trivia: Delaware somehow owns part of New Jersey)
Besides, Dr. StrangeRove has instructed the Delawarean legions to await orders, patiently. And so, we shall.
P.S. I’m surprised someone actually got the association between Delaware and the Blue hens
- #228 Blue Hen. Some are wondering what the potential Delaware turmoil has to do with the toon issue. You’ve been keeping it from the others, but I feel obliged, for the preservation of public safety, to let the facts out. Deleware was founded by Scandinavians,that is, Wilmington was (1638), which is the longest permanent settlement in North America. The Muslies know this, and after they are finished with Europe’s Scandinavians, which will be soon, they’ll be on to sack Wilminton.
- On BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Monday morning, Islamic cleric Omar Bakri Mohamed (who has issued a fatwa against the editor of Jyllands-Posten, and was banished from Great Britain) this exchange:
“What is your code of conduct … allow you to do by way of reaction? What do you think is justified by what you see as an insult to your faith?”
“[…] In Islam, God said and the saviour Mohammed said, that whoever insult the prophet must be punished and executed.”
“Executed?”
“Yes, according to Islam.”(Link will only work until Monday – if you would like the mp3 of the interview, email me – anagallis-at-gmail-com
- #228: I knew[/] it! The stories I made up, er, I mean, that I heard, are true. One of the regular commenters – I think it might have been Ushie, or maybe RebeccaH – said that, during the Revolutionary War (I believe it was), Delaware’s militiamen carried blue hens with them on the march so they could enjoy cockfighting matches. That’s how I made the connection. (Man, I thoughtWronwright was lying to me, when he said rumors of Delawarist revanchism were just lefty hallucinations!).
Stats: Delaware has what appears to be a cartoon on its flag, although I’m pretty sure it’s not a disrespectful depiction of the Big Mo. In fact, of the two figures represented, I think one’s wearing a golf cap and a Masters Jacket.
- Blue Hen,
The only good thing to come out of Delaware is scrapple and if shoving that stuff down your gullet doesn’t earn you a Fatwa, nothing will.
Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2006 02 07 at 05:38 PM • permalink
- the sudden claim that she was a girl
In fairness, given that the login name was “muslimah”, it seemed pretty clear from the beginning that she was female. Might still have been a fake, of course, but that claim certainly wasn’t sudden.
Actually, “high-school level girl” was my immediate interpretation of her handle, spelling/grammar, and hyperactive posting style, so a) I’m kind of surprised others didn’t get the same vibe, and b) if it was an act, it was quite well done.
- Actually, the seal of the Great State of Delaware( motto:fear us and our chickens!!) does have two persons. In acordance with current events, we’re replacing the objects in the center of the flag ( a scroll and plow, if I remember) and replacing it with a picture of Big Mo himself. That’ll give our man with the golf club something worthwhile to aim at.
As for sackings, Delaware contributed troops in excess of its size in every war that America has fought. Its troops were cited for distinquished conduct in most of them. You wanna have a war over toons? you’ve come to the right place.
- Gold coins.. shrugs?
If it would appease the Iranian editor, then if I could draw, I would gladly consult the religious leaders of the Jewish faith, with their permission, to conduct satire and draw a cartoon of the Holocaust.However, If I could draw the cartoon, it would be drawn with kindness, peace and good will to ensure art and Free Speech for remind the world of events that should not be forgotten.
- The infidel joe hath uttered blasphemous statments regarding the holy of holy breakfast meats, the SCRAPPLE (blessings be upon it). How dare you mock the sacred, ingenious amalgamation of pork by-products? I ask you, how many other breakfast meats are served as a brick!?!
The Delalegions will be mobilized and deal with you anon.
- Blue Hen, see those little air pockets in your scrapple?
That’s the squeal.
Posted by Joe Geoghegan on 2006 02 07 at 05:46 PM • permalink
- 140.Proud2Be, you asked Rob Read where he gets his information about A’isha? She said it herself.
Please excuse the long post, as I doubt any muslims reading this will follow links.
“(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.” Sahih Muslim vol.2:3309 p.715-716
And from Al-Bukhari:
“Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” Bukhari vol.5:236 p.153
“Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7:88 p.65
More can be found here.
If you want to read it, of course.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 07 at 05:57 PM • permalink
- “Delaware contributed troops in excess of its size in every war that America has fought”
Yeah, I think I remember reading about the two guys who fought for the Union army. But those blue hens made a mighty nice mark for my ancestors to aim at (Heh. Just a joke; but if it ultimately means time in a Delaware gulag, I retract the remark right now).
- Actually, there were two Delaware regiments at Gettysburg. Both were positioned on Cemetery Hill, and helped
see off
your ancestors. At least one Delawarean earned the Medal of Honor there. You’re right that Delaware is very small, far too small to have gulags. We just toss those who offend us to the chickens. They knowhow to deal with such insults. Of course there’s always our
special
scrapple. Heh heh.
hinking we’d won this round of the global cartoon wars, Iran tricks us with an ingenious surprise move:
Iran’s largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
Why, we’ll be incinerating embassies and shooting each other like idiots by the end of the week. All Jew-controlled Westerners are powerless in the face of Holocaust cartoons!
“It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust,” Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper, which is published by Tehran’s conservative-run municipality, said on Monday.
He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.
“The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let’s see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons,” he asserted.
Just try to stop me, Farid Mortazavi of Hamkablam newspaper! I’ll run as many of your Holocaust cartoons here as I can fit; they’ll likely be funnier than anything ever published in Jyllands-Posten. (By the way, exactly how many Western papers printed those sacrilegious Mo-toons? Wasn’t it only a dozen or so? Do you kind of get the feeling Iran is desperate to keep this issue boiling?)
(Via Kev Gillett)
You cannot reason with them or their spiritual leaders, it shows their true colours and we now know where we stand and ” tolerance” propaganda dosn’t seem to be working from their part. We give options and yet and still dosn’t work.
I liked Queen Marguarita’s speech from Denmark. It really shows what we need to do.
- “The still-unfolding story of the Danish cartoons that satirized Islam has come to this: In Iran, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei, in a speech to members of the military, said that the publication of the controversial drawings and the angry reaction from Muslims around the world that it has triggered are all parts of “a conspiracy planned by the Zionists to provoke a confrontation between Muslims and Christians.”…….Khameini said that “the Zionists,” meaning, apparently, Israel’s government, had instigated the cartoons affair in response to “the defeat” the militant Hamas organization’s victory in the January 25 Palestinian elections had “inflicted” on the government of Israeli Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.”
agence F. press. Khameini pointed out that “the holy anger [of Muslims in response to the cartoons] is not directed against Christians.”
He also denounced the Western “conception of freedom.”
According to that notion, he noted, “every doubt or refutation regarding the myth” of the killing of Jews during the World War II era “is prohibited, but gratuitously insulting more than a billion-and-a-half Muslims is authorized.
Shrugs. this is so boring, havn’t these men got something better to focus on in life?
- Things that have made me mad this week:
– The gathering in Copenhagen this week where Danes held up “sorry” signs and waved the Palestinian flag!
– Monday night’s 7:30 report, where the issue of free speech was raised; no not what is being described as the “global crisis” triggered by the Mohammed cartoons, but the right of some degenerate cretin to burn the Australian flag!
– Yesterday’s Midday Report on the ABC, where the people who published the catoons were also referred to as “extremists!”– The unmentionable MURDER of an ITALIAN Catholic Priest in Turkey in revenge for the insult to Islam by the Danes!
– Tonight’s SBS Dateline program for going ahead with the “raging controversy today”…the debate over intellegent design, and for their cowardly and audaciously hypocritical censorship of me on their website for pointing out the apparent (to everyone but them) silliness of ridiculing Christians this week!
ps…Tim, I hope you follow up on this Iranian ‘art’ contest, I’m keen to see what these apes come up with.
- Okay, as I’ve had a couple of votes in favor of keeping “proud2be,” I won’t ban her now. But as I’ve had NO votes in favor of “arab pride” he is banned.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 02 07 at 07:28 PM • permalink
- “ingenious surprise move”:
A Philadelphia cartoonist recommended on Monday that Muslims respond in kind.
so, draw, already!
- After reading these two pages of debate why am I thinking of the film “Not Without My Daughter”?? Maybe it was the words of Proud2be who stated women are not opressed??
But back onto the topic at hand here is a link I found showing various arab cartoons, now tell me why was the pictures of their prophet so insulting in comparison?
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm
Also a note to proud2be: You state you are 10 generation aussie??? Well I am first, from the Inner West and a High School student, and im sorry to say but your atrocious grammar is not an example of your age and the clicks of younger society, so do not insult us all.
- For Ratio:
Responding to your irrelevant post about ME, because obviously ive caught your eye one way or another, oh how I am blushing! Now with the question marks, yes I know it is one, thank you for pointing it out, I just add extra marks for an effect, im very artistic you know, although it is not something I occassionally do. In reference to “the first?” it was that im first generation Australian (better not use abbreviations with you) sorry I did not make myself clearer, I just assumed stating Proud2Be quote that people would understand what I meant, note to self, dont assume anything. And finally with the “I am” or “I’m” I am very very sorry for my grammatical error, but it was what people call a “typo” and I did not check over my work as carfully as I should have, so could you ever find it in your heart to forgive me?
And I am not here to mark you, I just found it insulting how Proud2Be CONSTANTLY wrote in “short hand” meaning u=you etc (oops made the mistake myself) when people asked her not too, and that she used her age as a defence that is all, but since you took it upon yourself to pick my small post to pieces maybe you should be the one grading me? And please be kind I tried my best.
- the BBC World Service coverage of this issue is almost unlistenable – especially their constant resort to the ultra-cringeworthy term “islamphobia” (is this a dhimmi-marker)
The ABC here is not quite so bad –
Sandy McCutcheon fearlessly took on this issue on Radio National’s Australia Talks Back (Yackity Yack) last night – it was both heartbreaking and amusing to hear soft-hearted Australian and other western women calling in saying, “why oh why would anyone deliberately print such cartoons if they knew it would offend muslims?… If it offends them, we shouldn’t do it…” The same women almost certainly dress in a way that offends muslims. Will they be happy to cover themselves up if the time comes when islam is strong enough to demand it?
OTOH – Steven Crittenden of the Religion Report was razor sharp this morning as usual. He actually said, “The most interesting aspect of this story is that it represents the beginning of the end of appeasement of Islam by Europeans, who are beginning to say what they really think about Islam, and signalling that they may be decadent, but they’re not going to be a pushover.” He then interview Ibn Warraq, author of Why I am Not a Muslim. Audio links are up at the show’s page now, and they promise a transcript later today.
- I was tempted to vote ‘keep’ for Proud2Be simply on the grounds of keeping ‘her’ cool and not cracking (ie getting insulting) under fairly intense cross-examination.
But I agree that even a superficial examination of P2B’s posts reveal a high fake quotient (10th gen? Yeah, right) and I doubt very much she’s even a high school student (too lucid, too measured) which suggests indeed she is a bandwidth consuming troll.
Paco – the Borg say ‘your uniqueness will be added to our own’. Islam says ‘your uniqueness will be erased’.
—Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 07 at 08:57 PM • permalink
- But I agree that even a superficial examination of P2B’s posts reveal a high fake quotient (10th gen? Yeah, right)
Though, would such an elaborate faker really make an off-hand comment that so obviously doesn’t pass the laugh test? Never attribute to malice what, etc.
(too lucid, too measured)
I dunno…the lucidity dovetails with the claim that her mother is a convert, I’d say. In my experience, converts often tend to insist on learning their religion from the ground up (rather than just taking community standards as read, or whatever), and p2b sure seemed to have memorized to the letter all the usual claptrap about Islam. Again, not necessarily an argument that it wasn’t a fake, but if so, it was a very coherent image IMO.
Geez, usually I’m the conspirazoid who sees returning trolls behind every new screenname. 🙂
- #60 >narnian1, my mum converted to islam 18 yrs >ago.. y did u convert if u neva believed >it??
proud2be@muslimah, I did believe it at first plus my husband painted a great picture of it. To be a muslim only takes a statement of belief then I went to lesssons to learn prayer and washing rituals. BUT, when I started reading about what Prophet Muhammad really DID, I was disgusted! Any human being would be too. The problem is that most muslilms do not read what he did until it is too late, ie when they are already so brainwashed they cannot see the wood for the trees. I won’t take up too much space in this comments column, but in brief, Muhammad was a paedophile, a savage murderer, a rapist and a thief. He massacred an entire Jewish tribe – 700 men by systematically beheading them. He preached hatred and racism and violence. He was no better than Hitler, Charles Manson or Stalin. In fact, he was worse – he stole most of the ‘nice’ quotes from the Bible. There is a lot of research on this at the moment.
Muhammad’s last words before he died were; “I curse the Jews and Christians.”
>and if u have been a muslim u should kno >that islam doesnt equal terrorism..
ROFLOL! Muhammad was a terrorist himself! He preached terror AND committed terror.
Here is a wonderful website run by ex muslims with a great forum that tells the truth;
Muslims who are starting to have inklings that they have been duped all along about Islam being a religion of peace, but are too afraid to apostatise, will get a lot of support and friendship there.
- To dandrew:
I do know that Ratio was suggesting that I look at my own grammar before judging Proud2Be, but if it was simple errors I would not have cared. It wasnt the fact that she continuously wrote in short hand and to me half the time it resembled “nt4udntgtmwng” but when others suggested her writting skills were not up to scratch, she used her age, location and background as a defence, which I found personally insulting.
But I apologise if I said anything to hurt Ratio, my comment on Proud2Be’s atrocious writing does seem alot harsher than the other posts that have been placed on this site, comparing mine to the personal attacks on her IQ and background I can see where I went wrong.
No need to continue this, for it is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.
- RE: The ‘Art Contest’
I could be wrong, BUT I believe the madmen of Persia, are going to make sure that the ‘art’ is completely and utterly disgusting.Face it, they are convinced the sit on top of the world with Russian and Chinese backing.
The next year or so, will determine the ‘what’s left population’ of the planet.
- Brian. If we are discussing freedom of speech in the context of religious beliefs, then I think it is a perfect time to examine how all beliefs are taight in our schools.
Suely it is quite in context. A liberal society can calmly debate such issues. An intolerant society allows no such debate and resorts to violence.
- “…probably bow down and kiss their feet”
Haha, had to laugh at that one. Most people I know would rather die than kiss some Muslims dirty feet.
Proud2bMuslim: we have obviously read different biographies. The one I read (by a Muslim) stated that Mohammed was guilty of murder and rape. Having read for myself the history of Mohammed, and comments of Mohammed regarding slaughtering infidels etc etc and how Islam should aim to take over the world – I wonder, are we referring to the same person?
But I hope you all continue to make irrational statements and tell obvious (and checkable) lies. It will result in even more people having their eyes opened to the true Islam and its aims. So rant and rave, riot and burn. The more idiot things you do, the sooner people will wake up to the threat you pose to our way of life.
- RE: For Nerd, For Ratio:
Responding to your irrelevant post about ME, because obviously ive caught your eye one way or another, oh how I am blushing! Now with the question marks, yes I know it is one, thank you for pointing it out, I just add extra marks for an effect, im very artistic you know, although it is not something I occassionally do. In reference to “the first?” it was that im first generation Australian (better not use abbreviations with you) sorry I did not make myself clearer, I just assumed stating Proud2Be quote that people would understand what I meant, note to self, dont assume anything. And finally with the “I am” or “I’m” I am very very sorry for my grammatical error, but it was what people call a “typo” and I did not check over my work as carfully as I should have, so could you ever find it in your heart to forgive me?
And I am not here to mark you, I just found it insulting how Proud2Be CONSTANTLY wrote in “short hand” meaning u=you etc (oops made the mistake myself) when people asked her not too, and that she used her age as a defence that is all, but since you took it upon yourself to pick my small post to pieces maybe you should be the one grading me? And please be kind I tried my best.
Nerd An A+ for an outstanding speech.
I appreciate the time you took to respond to my comments, in no way was I trying to put you down, it was in good fun. I hope you don’t mind.
We need young Australians like Yourself feeling proud about what we stand for.
Well Done,
Ratio.
- PW yes I see now she did use the muslimah handle from the word go. My assessment was a bit quick as I just trawled through her comments pretty quickly when I woke up before i headed off for work. My main suspicion was the change from incorrect spelling to correct when picked up – some of the incorrect spellings weren’t just SMS shorthand.
Still she could be genuine but I thought some of her posts just didn’t strike me as a high school girl, even one who was as dedicated and well-trained in her religion as she appears to be.
We may never know for sure.
- a few points…
1) muslimah didn’t seem to be too offensive in the way she put things, although a couple of her last posts about the Palestinians and Osama were verging on the looney side of things… but i think she handled most of the queries and responded rather well, putting across how she saw it in a measured way… u can handle it if someone puts across their view, and is even a bit sassy while doing it, its when they become arrogant and then begin to rant like that other nutjob did (pride whatever)… he added nothing to the post and deserves to get a kick in the date….
2) there were comments from some respondees that they were sick of responding to the same lies from trolls… but i guess for people who haven’t looked into the history of Mohammed and Islam as deeply as some others, about what the quuran says etc, and there are always new members joining Tim’s blog, these debates (as long as they stay reasonable) do help some build a fuller knowledge of the subject, together with links to go visit, etc… So it wasn’t a total waste of time and space if it has educated some more people to points of view on both sides… The people defending the muslim view of the world probably won’t ever admit their wrong, but other people can read and learn from the debates…
3) and as for the iranian holocaust denying cartoon contest… i think they can print as many of them as they like (after all they already do on a daily basis), but they won’t see it as a tit for tat exercise and we can all be firends again… the next time they feel someone has gratuitously offended THEIR prophet they will go straight back on the war path…
the reason – they think they have a right to insult and offend everyone, but anyone, anywhere breaking their precious religious laws (which they think apply to the whole world) is asking for a nasty execution… that’s how they will see it, this cartoon contest of their’s won’t settle anything….
Nukes at dawn.
(Slim Pickens riding on bomb-style)
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWW!!