Against withdrawal before he was for it

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Last updated on August 3rd, 2017 at 12:38 pm

Kevin Rudd, 2003:

Australia today is conjointly responsible for ensuring the security, health, food, shelter and clothing for 20 million Iraqis. That’s what Occupying Powers do. Put simply, if you invade a country, you get to run it afterwards until an Iraqi government takes over. And that is a long way off …

Our view is that whatever people’s views before the war might have been, the fate of 20 million Iraqis now depends on the Occupying Powers and the UN cooperating in a fundamental way to ensure that Iraq does have a future.

Kevin Rudd, 2007:

Mr Rudd says the presence of Australian combat forces in the Middle East is making the country a target for terrorists.

He says the Government should be willing to discuss a negotiated exit strategy from Iraq.

He’s a flexible fellow, our Kevni. Last October he believed some 50,000 Iraqis had died in the war; lately he’s upgraded that to a Lancet-approved 600,000. The Labor leader is also impressively bendy on the subject of Saddam’s weapons.

Posted by Tim B. on 07/23/2007 at 12:29 PM
    1. Go in, hit ‘em hard, then get out asap.

      Posted by Observer on 2007 07 23 at 12:42 PM • permalink


    1. Rudd’s view mirrors that promoted by Hussein Obama in the United States. The Democrat Party candidate has said plainly that a withdrawal-induced genocide in Iraq could occur but that’s not really America’s responsibility. As for the Womble, I confess I no longer understand what Australians are thinking if so many of them are apparently on the enthusiastic verge of voting for this amoral fraud.

      Posted by C.L. on 2007 07 23 at 12:43 PM • permalink


    1. Kevin the prissy tart. If he’s elected PM, I’m certainly never again engaging with the tax system. The ALP won’t have their hand in my wallet.

      Posted by mareeS on 2007 07 23 at 12:50 PM • permalink


    1. Flexibility. It’s a great skill.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 23 at 01:46 PM • permalink


    1. Might he not be flexible because he doesn’t actually believe any of it?

      Posted by oldirishpig on 2007 07 23 at 01:49 PM • permalink


    1. I’m no leftist but the two quotes from Rudd are consistent. As the occupying power we’re obligated to run Iraq until the Iraqi government takes over. Rudd would surely contend that we should now withdraw so the Iraqi government can take over. That makes him wrong; it doesn’t make him a hypocrite.

      Posted by Nathan on 2007 07 23 at 02:02 PM • permalink


    1. Doesn’t really matter what you say or do. As regards Iraq, as with the environment, those goalposts are fully mobile. If you’re conservative and you did it, it’s wrong.

      Posted by SoberHT on 2007 07 23 at 02:31 PM • permalink


    1. I admit that I don’t understand the shifting sands under some feet.  In the US, the specter of genocide was enough to send in the planes and troops into the Balkans–where there was no question of national security.  It seems that all that has now changed, and a genocide in which we most assuredly have a responsibility if we pull out, and its okay-dokey.  Doesn’t this take the concept of “relative ethics” to a different level?  Likely not.  I always figured you could substitute “whim” for “relative” with no loss of meaning.

      Posted by saltydog on 2007 07 23 at 02:55 PM • permalink


    1. I suppose it all depends on whether you care more about actual genocide or winning elections, doesn’t it?

      Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2007 07 23 at 03:56 PM • permalink


    1. 4 paco

      Flexibility. It’s a great skill.

      Yes, yes it is. Seeing the Left perform this everyday, does bring me a smile.

      Posted by El Cid on 2007 07 23 at 04:07 PM • permalink


    1. #8: Excellent points, Salty. I guess, as Clinton would say, it depends on your definition of “genocide”. Bill was all over the map on that issue, too.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 23 at 04:13 PM • permalink


    1. Democrats and their toadies in the press have a complete set of contingency plans to ensure that Bush is blamed for any Iraqi bloodbath. I don’t blame Democrats for their complete faith that they will succeed. Look at Katrina, look at the lies that were pushed by the press and accepted as fact. The reporting on Katrina was a smashing success for the left, why should things be any different in the near future.

      My favorite bit of double think are those on the left that criticize the US for supporting dictators on the one hand, and for deposing them on the other. We could have made a deal with Saddam to keep Al Quaeda in line in Iraq, if we looked the other way on his torture chambers. Then what would the left have said? Look at the US supporting evil dictators. It would be laughable if it wasn’t working so well for them.

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 23 at 04:28 PM • permalink


    1. Poor old Rudderless Kev,Australia’s King of waffle and rhetoric must be due for an upgrade of his memory card.

      Posted by Dave Wane on 2007 07 23 at 06:00 PM • permalink


    1. Have a close look at his last 10 media announcements on policy.  They read like a “voter concerns checklist”.

      job security
      housing affordability
      climate change

      But not 1 policy with any details to SOLVE these so-called concerns.

      The australian public just love the fact he cares.  He can’t help, despite bringing along his plumber’s crack.  Sure he’ll bash a few pipes, ruffle a few wind farms, flick his hair, consult widely, tinker at the edges and when something really bad happens, and then something even worse happens, he’ll looked shocked, he’ll apologise, he’ll blame someone else and all will be forgiven.  Meanwhile, his action plan will cost 5 times as much as if it had been done before, and wont work because the horse has bolted.  But we will reduce our carbon footprint, and the UN will love us again, and Alah will be happy.

      Meanwhile, I’ll be looking carefully at options, and if the country is seriously screwed, well I’ll make sure not to forget to turn off the lights when I leave.

      Posted by peter m on 2007 07 23 at 06:18 PM • permalink


    1. Rudd is a political whore.
      He will do or say whatever it takes to get laid elected.
Posted by Bonmot on 2007 07 23 at 06:35 PM • permalink


    1. Oh well.  Say hello to our next Prime Minister…

      Posted by anthony_r on 2007 07 23 at 07:00 PM • permalink


    1. Phatty Adams in today’s Oz:
      Rudd ALP just another floppositionRudd keeps saying it loud and clear – and makes it sound sweetly reasonable. “I’m not here”, says Kev, “to oppose for the sake of opposing.” When it comes to the small target, the Rudd campaign resembles a Target telly commercial. Ten, 15, 20 per cent off! Before the PM can up the ante, Kev’s at the checkout.

      Posted by Bonmot on 2007 07 23 at 07:01 PM • permalink


    1. Hezbollah Leader: We Have Rockets That Will Reach All of Israel

      Give it a shot, fuckhead. May as well get this Islam shit overwith, the sooner the better.

      Fox News

      Posted by El Cid on 2007 07 23 at 07:03 PM • permalink


    1. #8 Salty: When comparing the Balkans with Iraq another paradox is revealed. In both cases, genocide of Moslems was involved. In the former, Christians were killing Moslems. In the latter Moslems are killing each other.

      Posted by Skeeter on 2007 07 23 at 07:10 PM • permalink


    1. #14 you forgot keeping prices low at the grocery check-out.

      He’s playing a clever race.  Anything potentially controversial and he’s giving bipartisan support and the rest is all small issues – “Let’s give every new mother a book” stuff.  Though he wont do that, even the most forgetful of punters will be reminded of Latham then.

      Mrrs Apparatchik

      Posted by Apparatchik on 2007 07 23 at 07:23 PM • permalink


    1. Give poor Rudd a break. He grew up in a car after the landlord through his father out of a boat in the Vietnam War, for godsakes.

      However, one thing for house-raised Mr Howard, is that he got that awful Glasshouse off TV, and got Are You Being Served and Benny Hill back on the tele.

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 23 at 07:33 PM • permalink


    1. Let me guess his father used the rhythm method of contraception? Its no wonder Krudd doesn’t know if hes coming or going.
      On or off.
      In or out.
      up or down….

      Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 07 23 at 07:43 PM • permalink


    1. I hear a bunch of weathervanes are planning an intervention:

      “Kevin, dude, you’re giving us a bad name…”

      Posted by fidens on 2007 07 23 at 07:57 PM • permalink


    1. #22 Don’t dis the rhythm method.  Many of us wouldn’t be here without it.

      Mrs Apparatchik

      Posted by Apparatchik on 2007 07 23 at 08:06 PM • permalink


    1. Saltydog—them’s white folk in the Balkans.  Clinton and Obama are all about looking out for whitey.

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 07 23 at 08:13 PM • permalink


    1. Must be hell being a Lefty.  On the one hand, people are getting killed somewhere, and that makes them sad.  And on the other hand, you have to kill people to get them to stop killing people by and large.  That’s no good either.  Because who are we to judge?  Better to blame someone who took a stand and present yourself as the candidate who feels strongly both ways!

      Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2007 07 23 at 08:26 PM • permalink


    1. Kevni, Australians died in Bali due to terrorism. Have you forgotten this? Has Australia forgotten this?

      Withdrawal is only safe during certain times.

      Posted by 1.618 on 2007 07 23 at 08:32 PM • permalink


    1. #14 Exactly right!

      Rudderless Kev may well have been better using his diplomatic ability to say lots of things about nothing in the UN,where plenty is said but rarely anything done.

      Sadly for Australia,Rudderless Kev may end up being PM.

      Imagine it:

      The MV Rudderless Kev listing to the portside due to poorly loaded ballast consisting of the Greens and the Unions.

      The crew,consisting of 70% union members want better wages and conditions and refuse to row.

      And without a rudder there is no way forward and obviously no direction.

      Even the hot air from the skipper’s continual waffle and rhetoric is not enough to fill the sails.

      What will come of the MV Rudderless Kev?

      Will it join the wrecks of other poorly maintained and inadequately crewed Labor vessels at the bottom of the sea?

      Unfortunately the “pollution” from past Labor shipwrecks is still being felt. Yet another Federal Labor “shipwreck” would cause an “environmental” catastrophe, the likes of which we may never recover from (at least not in my lifetime).

      Posted by Dave Wane on 2007 07 23 at 08:42 PM • permalink


    1. Vanguard: the way to do it is to get someone else to do it and then blame them in public. Over here it’s a game progressolefties play with conservatives. The other part of the game is taking credit for the good thing conservatives do. Like Clinton bopping in on a Reagan high and saying “look what I accomplished!”

      Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 07 23 at 08:44 PM • permalink


    1. Look, as I wrote at my place yesterday, why wouldn’t you vote for Kev. He’s basically going to fix every problem, real or imagined, that all Aussies face today. It will be a veritable utopia once big Kev takes over the reins!

      Actually Kev, while I’ve got your attention, I’ve got this nasty red rash on my… whoops, it’s only lipstick.

      Posted by Gibbo on 2007 07 23 at 08:45 PM • permalink


    1. I sold a house a couple of months back, not soley from the prospect of wall to wall ALP governments , but it was definately in the back of my mind.
      I think he will get in based on doing nothing. Howard has been so demonised by the press and the hard left “intelligensia” that I dont think anything will help at this stage.
      The amount of sheer waffle on global warming/cooling climate change alone is indicative of that. The fact that the sheer lunacy of proposing 60% cuts in energy use in Australia hasnt been the death knell for Krudd means he can effectively get away with anything.
      If I was to propose reducing fuel consumption by strict rationing I would be considered a loon and a dictator. Yet Kruddie boy proposes to do that for EVERY form of cheap energy in Australia.

      Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 07 23 at 08:53 PM • permalink


    1. 29, so like, Welfare Reform!  Now I get the game!

      Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2007 07 23 at 08:55 PM • permalink


    1. Hi. I’m Kev the contortionist, and I’m here to help.

      Posted by kae on 2007 07 23 at 09:16 PM • permalink


    1. Let’s hope the Libs have got more material to lay on lil’ Kevni’s glass jaw for another dummy spit close to the election.

      Posted by egg_ on 2007 07 23 at 09:27 PM • permalink


    1. John Kerry on the killings that followed the Democrats’ Vietnam surrender:

      ‘It Didn’t Happen’.

      Posted by C.L. on 2007 07 23 at 09:32 PM • permalink


    1. Very worrying. We could be in some deep doo doo if this fraud gets the keys to the lodge. He’s taken more positions than a nympho at a kama sutra demonstration and still the media are pushing each other out of the way to give him a reach around. Mad Mark Latham might have been off his bonce, but this man’s just plain evil.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 07 23 at 09:41 PM • permalink


    1. Pity I’m not seriously rich because the next few years could be fun. We’re about to witness a man who has only been laid for procreation reasons root a whole country.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 07 23 at 09:45 PM • permalink


    1. KRudd has David Epstein and Walter Secord these two make stories up and the MSM print them. No such thing as consistency. Keep the KRuddites confused. Then win the election. Then all change again. CarrBomb did this in NSW. Look at the other Oz states. All KRuddites.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2007 07 23 at 09:45 PM • permalink


    1. So Rudd’s for withdrawal.  Pity his daddy wasn’t.

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 07 23 at 09:57 PM • permalink


    1. The proposition that you have any credibility on this issue is ludicrous. How about an honest and frank account of just how your war is going? Oh, that’s right, you’ve moved on to running interference on climate change. Whoever is bankrolling you is getting a very poor ROI.

      Posted by Miranda Divide on 2007 07 23 at 10:07 PM • permalink


    1. So Mr Rudd is a politician eh? Interesting!

      Posted by allan on 2007 07 23 at 10:19 PM • permalink


    1. #40 Miranda, I think I know what you’re saying. Do you think the bloghead, is being bankrolled by those same people who control the media in Australia and the US?

      On the other hand, maybe he’s supporting his habit by amassing thousands of dollars by having a day job…

      Either way, sounds pretty sinister to me.

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 23 at 10:26 PM • permalink


    1. #40: Whoever is bankrolling you is getting a very poor ROI.

      Oh, I don’t know about that (peels off a couple of c-notes from the wad). Here, Miranda; go buy yourself a tape recorder. That way, you can listen to the music of your own voice around the clock without bothering all the nice people, ok?

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 23 at 10:31 PM • permalink


    1. 40. I’ll wager anyone here has as much credibility on the subject (AGW)as a failed divinity student.

      And who exactly is going to provide that honest and frank debate on the war?  CNN? CBS? The DNC?  How’s about a debate on the alternatives?

      Aw, whadda you care? Just a bunch of brown people.  Screw em, right?  Lets talk about our new entitlements instead.

      Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2007 07 23 at 10:31 PM • permalink


    1. I thought Big Oil was Blogheads paymaster?

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 07 23 at 10:40 PM • permalink


    1. Miranda – try reading something other than The Age, and you might find the latest news on the surge in Iraq to be quite positive.  The people of Iraq are turning on both Iraq Al Q and foreign Al Q and this is a huge change for the better.

      Gen Patreus reports on progress in September.  Wait for that for your honest account on the war.  If you dare.

      Posted by peter m on 2007 07 23 at 10:42 PM • permalink


    1. Out they come, out they come… the loyal little sheep out for a quick bleat.

      Posted by Miranda Divide on 2007 07 23 at 10:42 PM • permalink


    1. And shouldn’t you be at school young man?

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 07 23 at 10:43 PM • permalink


    1. G’day Miranda! Would you prefer the splodey people to be hanging around your family?

      Well, it ain’t the left-wing who are stopping them.

      Posted by Ash_ on 2007 07 23 at 10:45 PM • permalink


    1. Miranda, the war’s going fine, thanks for asking.

      Posted by Gibbo on 2007 07 23 at 10:49 PM • permalink


    1. I have this whimsical fancy – and I admit it is nothing more – that in his real, walking about, three-dimensional life, in which he actually encounters people face to face, Miranda carries on intelligent conversations, discusses art, literature and even politics with an unusual depth of appreciation and understanding, conducts research in microbiology that has put him on the short list of Nobel Prize candidates, and is kind to his mother. But meanwhile, his comments here grow more single-mindedly idiotic, more bitter, more stultifyingly boring. It’s . . . The Comments of Dorian Gray!

      As I say, mere whimsy. No doubt he is nothing but a perpetual motion machine of cheap snark and raving leftwing slogans in his “real” life, as well.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 23 at 11:04 PM • permalink


    1. Miranda – the best general in world for the last 50 years has now been put in charge of Iraq. Nigh on everday brings news of another tribe or insurgent group turning on AQ.
      Iraqslogger has even carried photos of former insurgents being ferried around Baghdad in US Humvees en route to joint raids on AQI
      If I was you I’d start edging towards the door quietly trying not to draw too much attention to yourself.

      Posted by the nailgun on 2007 07 23 at 11:16 PM • permalink


    1. for my money I’d like some more agressive questions put to Rudd re iraq

      eg “Can we win in Iraq?” if he says “no” then ask “General Petraeus says we can why is he wrong and you right”

      Plus “When are you going to Iraq to face PM Maliki and tell him he is not doing enough?”

      Posted by the nailgun on 2007 07 23 at 11:19 PM • permalink


    1. Read this Minny.

      Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 07 23 at 11:25 PM • permalink


    1. Q: Miranda, should Rudd be elected, what do you anticipate he will do about our troups in Iraq?

      Q2: And if he doesn’t meet with your expectations (will it be the default position – blame it on the Right)?

      Posted by egg_ on 2007 07 24 at 12:22 AM • permalink


    1. #47 We love Tim Baaaaaalair.

      Posted by lingus4 on 2007 07 24 at 12:22 AM • permalink


    1. Please don’t be mean to sheep

      Posted by Pickles on 2007 07 24 at 12:34 AM • permalink


    1. Miranda D,

      We only tolerate you for comic input, and because we choose to give you oxygen. It’s called free speech. So why do you have such a problem with those of us not of your views exercising our own right to think and speak freely?

      Posted by mareeS on 2007 07 24 at 12:56 AM • permalink


    1. Pre-Iraq war – Al-Qaeda targets non-Muslims in the US, Kenya, Yemen, Indonesia and Tanzania.

      Post-Iraq war – Al-Qaeda targets Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      Can someone explain where Bush’s Iraq policy has failed?

      Posted by Contrail on 2007 07 24 at 04:26 AM • permalink


    1. Another troll by, Mindy? (Sighs, and decides that he may as well talk to a wall, then laughs)
      Oh, I get it, sorry, I’m probably not as clever as you, that was parody, right?
      Wasn’t it?
      My war was going ok till I came home to people like you spitting on the freedoms people like us provided for you. I’ll tell you how my war’s going in a few months, if you’d just care to sit in that chair over there, don’t worry about the wires or the big switch here on the wall. 🙂

      Posted by 185600 on 2007 07 24 at 04:28 AM • permalink


    1. So if the Coalition kicks Al-Q’s butt in Iraq then Kevni will be for them before he was against them before he was for them.

      Doesn’t really matter anyway, Virginia Trioli and Co. at our ABC will just parrot the appropriate and all will just move on.

      Kevni Kevni he’s our man
      if spin wins elections
      then Kevni can.

      Posted by gubbaboy on 2007 07 24 at 04:39 AM • permalink


    1. Miranda, they’re talking about you in the next thread.

      Posted by kae on 2007 07 24 at 04:39 AM • permalink


    1. Miranda,I doubt there are many sheep at this blog.

      The majority of Australia’s remaining sheep-like people are to be found in the last bastion of union dominance – the public service.

      Miranda,are you a protected, taxation guzzling,isolated,insulated,unionised “servant of the public”?

      Do you cling to your union mates like a child clings to a security blanket?

      Could you ever EARN a living in the REAL world? The REAL world where REAL people do REAL work without parasitic union thugs or silly unfair dismissal laws to “protect” them?

      Posted by Dave Wane on 2007 07 24 at 05:21 AM • permalink


    1. Funny how those who disagree with M.D. and the constant bleat of the press are sheep, and those who accept flip flops like Rudd’s with nary a question are the indepenent minded ones.

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 24 at 05:55 AM • permalink


    1. The Water Plan – Brackish turbulence.
      The Aboriginal Rescue – Hacked at by Carpenter.
      The Terrorist Threat – Meaty Beattie is Upset.
      Next Big Issue – Iemma’s Dilemma.
      And After That – Rann’s Your Man.
      Our Feckess Media – The Play’s The Thing.
      Is there a pattern here?

      Posted by blogstrop on 2007 07 24 at 06:42 AM • permalink


    1. Feckess id of course Irish for .. oh, never mind.

      Posted by blogstrop on 2007 07 24 at 06:45 AM • permalink


    1. Have another drink Paddy … don’t mind if I doo.

      Posted by blogstrop on 2007 07 24 at 06:46 AM • permalink


    1. blogstrop

      Ah Feck it!

      Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 07 24 at 09:11 AM • permalink


    1. Feck, feckity, feck, feck, feck! What the feck are you talking about blogstrop?

      I prefer the Galactica frack, myself.

      Posted by Texas Bob on 2007 07 24 at 11:17 AM • permalink


    1. “Mr Rudd says the presence of Australian combat forces in the Middle East is making the country a target for terrorists.”

      Hmmm, al Qaeda has conducted terror attacks in the Phillipines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Lebanon, Algeria, Marrocco, Spain and other countries.  I had no idea, that Australian troops were in all these countries conducting occupations.  This has to be the case, since al Qaeda terror attacks are caused by Australian troops and occupations.

      The people, who excuse Islamic terror, have to have been dropped on this planet from UFOs, because I don’t recognize any human thought from them.

      Posted by Jabba the Tutt on 2007 07 25 at 10:08 AM • permalink


    1. Sorry, no time to explain. Only have a moment.
      Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
      Be back later.

      Posted by Texas Bob on 2007 07 25 at 04:16 PM • permalink


  1. Texas Bob: may I follow you? I’m just not comfortable striking out on my own- unlike the redoubtable pioneer Miranda Divide, who is so original even “her” name isn’t derivative of someone else’s, someone in the media upon whom “she” has a fixation. Also, have you noted how MD never says anything we’ve heard a thousand times before? Nope, it’s all fresh-a-licious unregurgitated original thought.

    Posted by wreckage on 2007 07 26 at 11:25 AM • permalink