TREES WORSE THAN CARS

Global warming has only been dead for a few days, and already people are missing it:

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One way to bring warming back is via more Californian wildfires:

A study released March 12 of four large California wildfires shows they collectively will put an estimated 38 million tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere through fire and subsequent decay of dead trees …

The estimated 38 million tons of greenhouse gases is the equivalent of emissions from seven million cars – for one year. Nearly 10 million tons of harmful greenhouse gases were emitted from the fires themselves, with an estimated 28 million additional tons of carbon dioxide emitted from decay, mostly in the next 50 years.

Yet warmthers are still obsessed with vehicle emissions.

Posted by Tim B. on 05/03/2008 at 12:12 PM
    1. See!  It’s not us humans causing global warmenating at all!  It’s the damn trees!

      Sneaky, man-killing trees!

      Posted by RebeccaH on 2008 05 03 at 12:49 PM • permalink

 

    1. Just emissions in general I think. What would Freud have thought?

      Posted by Nic on 2008 05 03 at 12:51 PM • permalink

 

    1. Yet warmthers are still obsessed with vehicle emissions.

      Yeah, the same clowns advocate locking-up the forests and resist preventitive maintainence to reduce the fuel load. They then cite the resultant ‘super-fires’ as evidence of climate change. Idiots.

      Posted by JAFA on 2008 05 03 at 01:29 PM • permalink

 

    1. There’s also a volcano erupting in South America (Argentina?) right now, too.

      Doesn’t Gaia know that carbon dioxide is going to kill everyone and everything in the world? Exploiting bitch.

      Posted by andycanuck on 2008 05 03 at 01:37 PM • permalink

 

    1. Looks to me like the Kyoto Treaty causes global warming.

      Posted by paco on 2008 05 03 at 02:20 PM • permalink

 

    1. One major forest fire is roughly equivalent to three farting cows.
      I have the Lancet’s “Guide to Liberal Causes” conversion chart to prove it.

      Posted by Merlin on 2008 05 03 at 03:17 PM • permalink

 

    1. ”…once data can be brought directly from the Atlantic depths, that may change the view of how the AMO works and what it means for the global climate.”

      Wha? I thought the debate was over.

      I was going to say “these people are”, but it is unfair to lumpen them, there never was any consensus either. Will they all just run from the room saying “I didn’t say anything about constant temperature rises. Musta been some other guys..”

      Posted by ooh honey honey on 2008 05 03 at 03:51 PM • permalink

 

    1. Obviously we need to tax people for the trees on tneir property to pay for the GW gasses they emit.  And then we can tax them for the trees NEAR their property, and then any trees they might have heard about or seen pictures of…

      Face it, those people Mt. St. Helen killed got off easy.  I imagine the taxes on a volcanic eruption would really have set them back…

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2008 05 03 at 04:39 PM • permalink

 

    1. Not to mention burning coal mines that can burn for centuries, emitting yearly more carbon than the entire fleet of cars and small trucks in the US.

      A tax on spontaneous coal combustion is urgently needed.

      Bush and Big Coal should be paying for this. The bastards raping Gaia as we know her!

      Posted by Mikael on 2008 05 03 at 05:44 PM • permalink

 

    1. #3 That cause/effect confusion is a constant in the AGW mantra.
      For example, use biofuels to save the planet from AGW; there will be food shortages due to AGW; oh noes, use of biofuels causes food shortages.
      It’s a familiar pattern with these fools.Building dams is another.
      Drought is a scourge, and there will be more drought due to AGW; build more dams to store water (efficient and cheap to supply); oh noes, dams rot plants and release C02 and methane into the atmosphere, we’re doooooooomed!

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 06:08 PM • permalink

 

    1. On the political front, note this wonderful non-divisive headline.

      Posted by paco on 2008 05 03 at 06:24 PM • permalink

 

    1. The volcano eruption is in Chile. Women, minorities and the intellectual elite hardest hit.

      Posted by andycanuck on 2008 05 03 at 06:35 PM • permalink

 

    1. I live in frigging Canberra. As I looked outside just on dawn, my yard was white. Bloody frost.

      I need all the glowball warming I can get!

      Fortunately, I have a chainsaw, access to 16,000 acres of land, and a wood burning fireplace. So I can help glowball warmening while also murdering and then burning the corpses of those filthy trees.

      MarkL
      Canberra

      Posted by MarkL on 2008 05 03 at 06:47 PM • permalink

 

    1. I lit my fire last night.

      Mmmmm. Warm.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 06:54 PM • permalink

 

    1. The study is based on an analytical tool developed for the Forest Foundation. The tool, called the Forest Carbon and Emissions Model.

      And the model was peer reviewed by….

      Yeah, thought so.

      Posted by 13times on 2008 05 03 at 07:06 PM • permalink

 

    1. say “No to climate change, bring back global warming NOW”. Its Fn freezing here…

      Posted by jon crow on 2008 05 03 at 07:09 PM • permalink

 

    1. I had to post a comment over at that site:

      There are important facts not reported here:

      1. CO2 released from burning vegetation is no more than CO2 that vegetation sucked out of the air a few years before. This adds nothing to the average level of CO2 in the atmosphere [any more than rain adds to the total amount of water].

      2. The same is true of naturally rotting vegetation–same CO2 just going around in a circle. This is what takes place in your backyard compost heap. [You MUST constantly turn over compost, or anaerobic decomposition takes place, resulting in methane release–dozens of times worse than CO2 by any criterion. This happens in landfills, and is a big problem for air quality.]

      3. Fossil fuels sequestered their CO2 millions of years ago, which DOES add to the CO2 load in the atmosphere now, but this apparently does not cause GW, despite the squealing of ecotards.

      4. That these facts are left out of this article is a fine measure of the corruption of both science and journalism, and how many people slept through their biology and chemistry classes.

      Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2008 05 03 at 07:19 PM • permalink

 

    1. I’m surprised that the Rhodes Scholars who appear to populate the “management” of the vast plethora of green groups aren’t screaming for BusHitlerhoWARdSSKKK to send fleets of concrete trucks down there to plug the thing up…should work nicely.

      Posted by Rod C on 2008 05 03 at 07:21 PM • permalink

 

    1. O/T
      Insiders. Wayne Swan.Waffle, waffle, waffle, working families, waffle, reckless spending previous government, waffle, waffle, waffle, hard budget, waffle, rein in reckless spending, waffle, Morris Iemma is a star, waffle, Pensioners? oh, yeah, pensioners we’re looking after everyone, waffle, waffle, waffle, previous government at fault, waffle.

      He used a lot of ALP cliches, but I really don’t think he said much, except to dump on “the previous government” and it’s “reckless spending”. Oh, and Morris is a hero.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 07:24 PM • permalink

 

    1. How hard is the budget going to be, they’ve got more money than you can poke a stick at, and it’s hard?

      They inherited more money than Midas from the reckless spending previous government, and they’re whining and bitching.

      Can anyone tell me how long this blame the previous government in every interview is going to go on for? Howard inherited a shitheap from the previous government, how long did they blame the previous government after they got in?

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 07:28 PM • permalink

 

    1. Comment at the Ledger – This stuff gets me very hot.

      For the Angora and Moonlight fires of 2007, no removal of dead trees has occurred on federally owned lands”

      We’ve had numerous fires along the Feather River. Some of these fires raged for weeks between Four Trees, Quincy and Brownsville. There are hundreds of acres of burned but salvageable dead trees all along highway 162 but The Sierra Club and other environmental groups oppose all salvage operations.

      The Fed would prefer to auction the salvage rights to independent logging companies – the salvage contracts pay for other services like campground upkeep, construction and OHV recreational use.

      Lets be realistic here – The Western Slope of the Plumas Nat’l Forest has been logged many times. There are hundreds of miles of high quality chipped gravel access roads and the old skidder paths have been reused for five generations worth of tree harvesting. So the logging infrastructure is already in place.. there is no need to create new roads to get to the timber stands.

      Every time the Fed opens up a tract of forest for timber harvesting the Sierra Club lawyers file lawsuits and keep timber sales tied up in litigation.

      You folks need a new Tool and Model – one that factors in lawsuits filed by sharpie lawyers from San Francisco.

      Posted by 13times on 2008 05 03 at 08:03 PM • permalink

 

    1. They can’t let go of their Howard-hate, why should we be surprised by their car-hate too?

      Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2008 05 03 at 08:05 PM • permalink

 

    1. #14 Kae

      Dudette, you live in QUEENSLAND. Why the heck do you need a fire?

      MarkL
      Canberra

      Posted by MarkL on 2008 05 03 at 08:12 PM • permalink

 

    1. Kae

      The Coalition did give Beasley’s Black Hole a pretty good stoking for a while after the election in 1996. Which was only fair enough since Hawke went on for years about a mythical $10 billion deficit Fraser supposedly left.

      Fairly standard practice for new governments to be honest. I think the limit to it is set by focus groups. when the government starts to hear that people are sick of whinging about the previous government it stops.

      Posted by Francis H on 2008 05 03 at 08:15 PM • permalink

 

    1. Australians genuinely believed that the planet was overheating. Howard did not. Ordinarily, this would not have been a problem because the PM could always find a form of words to assuage the electorate. But he wasn’t interested now. They wanted to know that he felt their concern. And:
      He expected the public to share his scepticism on the science of global warming, in the same stubborn way that Keating had previously expected support for the symbolism of reconciliation and a republic.
      George Megalogenis publishes an extract from his updated book “The Longest Decade” in an article in
      The Australian entitled Howard Didn’t See Rudd Around The Corner.
      One day, someone (most likely not George) might examine the impact on the electorate’s perceptions of (i) millions spent by the Union Movement demonising Work Choices, with no contrary views put by the media (much more concerned about Howard’s spend on adverts); (ii) the uncritical acceptance of and promootion by the media of the global warming scam (taken to extremes by the ABC with its demolition job on a sceptical documantary); and (iii) the continual puffery by the media for Rudd and against the Howard Government generally, to the point that every initiative like Water or Intervention was swung & spun by a combination of State ALP resistance and media partisanship.
      I used to agree that a free press was a cornerstone of a free society. My faith in much of our media has been destroyed. There is precious little critical coverage of the new government outside of our usual band of conservatives (who, despite the obvious high quality of their work, have been targetted for dismissal for being “out of step with the electorate” – pardon me for thinking that’s only less than half of the electorate!), and certainly not of the 2020 Surmount.

      Posted by blogstrop on 2008 05 03 at 08:17 PM • permalink

 

    1. #23
      Despite what you think it does get cold here. Below zero some mornings. I get up before the sun so I have to have the fire. It helps (and I’ve lived here for 14 years so I’ve become acclimatised).#24
      Register me as being fed up with it.
      Anyway, the Howard Government didn’t leave a black hole for the incoming government. In fact, it left piles and piles of money in the coffers. Someone tell Swannee and Kevvie.

      #25
      I agree, Blogstrop, particularly with your last paragraph.
      Sack those who are out of step with the elctorate which translates to “get rid of those who don’t agree with us”.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 08:23 PM • permalink

 

    1. #23 #26
      Aren’t you both at an elevation ASL (c. 500m) which has a climate (-1C/300m) cooler than the surrounds, irrespective of latitude?

      Posted by egg_ on 2008 05 03 at 09:04 PM • permalink

 

    1. Damn, just when I was getting ready for the great gaying and consequent rise in HIV/AIDS infection rates the temperature starts to drop. What am I going to with my diamonte g-string and Audrey Hepburn tattoo? Anybody out got some cheap polar jackets?

      Posted by Hanyu on 2008 05 03 at 09:05 PM • permalink

 

    1. #25
      Libs’ marketers didn’t counter Rudd’s marketers at all, need a kick in the kybosh.

      Posted by egg_ on 2008 05 03 at 09:07 PM • permalink

 

    1. If you want to see denial-induced cognitive dissonance in action, point out to a climo-tard the fact that forest fires, coal fires, and volcanic activity dwarf human made CO2 emissions from all sources to the point of insignificance.  All you’ll get is a *blink*… and then they’ll continue on the well worn rails of their train of thought.  It’s hilarious, and it’s certainly some species of insanity.

      Posted by Hucbald on 2008 05 03 at 09:16 PM • permalink

 

    1. #27
      Hm. 500m above sea level? The local railway station is 103m above sea level. I’m maybe 10m higher than that.***
      I’m concerned that particular insanity is contageous (to those susceptible only, of course…)

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 09:20 PM • permalink

 

    1. Damn buncha whiny bitches in California.  Last summer, we had a 553,000 acre fire about 25 miles north and 20 miles west and we didn’t whine about CO2.

      Posted by SwampWoman on 2008 05 03 at 09:25 PM • permalink

 

    1. #31
      particular insanity is contageous
      ?environmental lapse rate (ELR):
      International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) defines an international standard atmosphere with a temperature lapse rate of 6.49 °C/1000 m (3.56 °F or 1.98 °C/1000 ft) from sea level to 11 km

      Posted by egg_ on 2008 05 03 at 09:36 PM • permalink

 

    1. contagious insanity referred to the previous comment #30.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 09:42 PM • permalink

 

    1. #29 Libs’ marketers overestimated the intelligence of many people while Rudd’s marketers correctly estimated the gullibility of just enough people.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 03 at 09:48 PM • permalink

 

    1. #31
      A 113m eh?
      Perfect for that beach front property!

      Posted by Orion on 2008 05 03 at 10:03 PM • permalink

 

    1. #36
      Shhhhh, Orion. I was trying to keep it quiet. I have a vested interest in Robyn (100m) Williams’ predictions*.Well, I’m hopin’ they’re not “wild guesstimations for the gullible”, sigh.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 03 at 10:09 PM • permalink

 

    1. OT? Miranda Devine column is moving from the Sun-Herald to Saturday Herald and continuing Thursday Herald.
      Interesting comments in her last Sun-Herald column. linky

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 03 at 10:32 PM • permalink

 

    1. Trees have long been waging a subtle form of guerilla warfare against cars, but it seems to be getting less subtle every day.

      Posted by Margos Maid on 2008 05 03 at 10:33 PM • permalink

 

    1. #9 Mikael

      If these coal fires are spontaneous then it is not rape – probably more like onanisim.

      And THAT explains alot.

      Posted by Toiling Mass on 2008 05 03 at 10:58 PM • permalink

 

    1. #37
      Should we downsize/rightsize him to Robyn 70m Williams, with up to 30yrs of forestalled warming predicted* this century?*Until the next revision of the IPCC’s Matrix software.

      Posted by egg_ on 2008 05 04 at 12:01 AM • permalink

 

    1. If you want to see denial-induced cognitive dissonance in action, point out to a climo-tard the fact that forest fires, coal fires, and volcanic activity dwarf human made CO2 emissions from all sources to the point of insignificance.

      #30, but everyone knows that these emissions (as well as those from China) have been certified ‘organic’ by the IPCC as they don’t contribute to manbearpig global warming.

      Posted by Art Vandelay on 2008 05 04 at 01:35 AM • permalink

 

    1. #12; andycanuck, that link was to a male menopause add; I have heard that the CO2 output from males is greater than from women, but that old blokes who are adiopausal are more carbon neutral; hence the expression; diamond in the rough.

      #17; Harry; yes the old closed system argument; burning and rotting trees are natural increments to CO2 levels, merely replacing what they have recently taken; well trees don’t take CO2, the nasty buggers take O2, from us humans. The whole idea that humans are causing AGW by burning stored CO2 is a load of crock because the CO2 is actually being imported in.

      Posted by cohenite on 2008 05 04 at 01:44 AM • permalink

 

    1. #25 – Australians genuinely believed that the planet was overheating. Howard did not.

      I can tell you for a fact that Howard believed the science – as given to him by his scientific advisors (one of whom I know very well) that the global warming problem was overblown. His mistake was in misreading the politics.

      Posted by Jack Lacton on 2008 05 04 at 02:04 AM • permalink

 

    1. Who do we believe? Today warmthers “truth”, it seems the past has inaccurate assertions too on other matters.
      Wall Street Journal op-ed is well wide of the mark.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 02:13 AM • permalink

 

    1. Couldn’t we burn SF to the ground again instead? What’ve you got against trees?

      Posted by mojo on 2008 05 04 at 04:56 AM • permalink

 

    1. #46

      Well I said shake baby shake
      I said shake baby shake
      I said shake it baby shake it
      I said shake baby shake
      Come on over
      Whole lot of shakin goin’ on

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 05:06 AM • permalink

 

    1. Our coolthening is over, and we’re back to spring weather. I blame the bears who are now out of hibernation and rooting through our garbage cans.

      Posted by rightwingprof on 2008 05 04 at 06:21 AM • permalink

 

    1. Well I’ll be in Brisbane for a spot of family gathering and globell worming next week.

      Can someone please explain to me how on earth these ‘scientists’ work out how much co2 weighs when it’s emitted?

      Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2008 05 04 at 06:45 AM • permalink

 

    1. #49
      I’ll see you that and raise you how the hell they bury the stuff.
      Sequestration.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 04 at 06:49 AM • permalink

 

    1. #48 bears rooting garbage cans, as sexual partner?
      FYI Rooting can be defined in Australia, New Zealand as sex.
      #49 I assume they weigh the CO2 filled bottles and subtract the bottles’ weight. How they get all the CO2 into bottles is the question.
      #50 Bury the CO2 in the bottles after they weigh them.
      Now where do they get all bottles they need?
      Drill for more oil to make more plastic bottles maybe. Or do they use paper bags instead of bottles and cut down more trees. Save Californie from those fires by cutting down trees for paper bags to bury the CO2.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 07:36 AM • permalink

 

    1. Whether the bears are rooting in garbage cans or rooting in garbage cans is moot.

      They SHOULD be sleeping.

      Stack, you sure it’s OK for them to use plastic bottles?

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 04 at 07:47 AM • permalink

 

    1. #51; the sex/root thing is a bit more complicated than that; sex for some people is like pullin teeth.

      Posted by cohenite on 2008 05 04 at 07:52 AM • permalink

 

    1. Ents.

      I hate those guys.

      Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2008 05 04 at 08:17 AM • permalink

 

    1. #52
      I repeat

      Or do they use paper bags instead of bottles and cut down more trees.

      If not OK for them to use plastic bottles.
      #53

      It is suggested that the genes on the X and Y chromosome that affect tooth crown growth are also expressed in the following root growth and may lead to sexual dimorphism in root length, men having longer roots than women.

      Men having longer rooting than women it seems.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 08:30 AM • permalink

 

    1. I dunno, Stackja, I suppose it depends on how you fold the paper.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 04 at 08:31 AM • permalink

 

    1. #56
      You know they tied it up in folded paper And they turned it upside down ma, both biodegradable of course.
      Or
      Pass the paper bag that holds the plastic bottle, both biodegradable of course.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 08:46 AM • permalink

 

    1. #49 & 50. The Alco2Jet 40 bottles for Sodastream hold 330g of CO2. So if you release the gas from 3030 of those cylinders, you will add 1 tonne of CO2 to your environment. This should keep you toasty for about 5 seconds at tonight’s SEQ temps. The cylinders cost about $11 each to refill, so it’s cheaper to light a fire.
      And that’s what we have done for the last three nights. It’s the first time in 22 years in this house that we have needed a fire in May, and we had our earliest frost ever on the last night of April this year. The frosted grass is 10 metres amsl so the ELR didn’t have anything to do with it. Calm, gin clear air at night (not enough greenhouse gases) is the obvious cause of this premature coldening.

      Posted by Skeeter on 2008 05 04 at 08:47 AM • permalink

 

    1. #56
      Hey, wait.
      CO2 is recyclable. Reusable. Trees use it, plants use it, then they get eaten.
      It’s like a, a, big, er, chain. Yeah, that’s it, a carbon chain.

      Posted by kae on 2008 05 04 at 08:51 AM • permalink

 

    1. #59 Catenation of covalent bond that is the attractive interactions of chemical bond. Bonds vary widely in their strength. Generally covalent and ionic bonds are often described as “strong”, whereas hydrogen bonds and van der Waals’ bonds are generally considered to be “weak”. Care should be taken because the strongest of the “weak” bonds can be stronger than the weakest of the “strong” bonds.

      Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 05 04 at 09:07 AM • permalink

 

  1. FYI Rooting can be defined in Australia, New Zealand as sex.

    Oops. I had no idea. ‘Scuse the choice of phrase. But they’re awake and out of their dens, and in our yards.

    That’s what happens when you live in the mountains.

    Posted by rightwingprof on 2008 05 04 at 10:05 AM • permalink