INDY OUTED

They’re bringing it down from the inside! Global warmenist Mark Hoofnagle exposes a climate change conspiracy:

I have come to the conclusion that the Independent, with stories like this one, are trying to bring down the science of global warming from the inside … These ridiculous assertions from the Independent are just as annoying as those coming from anti-GW cranks like Tim Blair who rejoice in every cold-snap.

As annoying as the Independent? Them’s fighting words, Hoofy.

Posted by Tim B. on 07/25/2007 at 11:06 AM
    1. Ouch. That’s a huge insult Tim.

      Even worse than being called a Lefty.

      Posted by Ash_ on 2007 07 25 at 11:19 AM • permalink

 

    1. Personally, I blame the high price of corn on Global Warming alarmists.

      Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2007 07 25 at 11:22 AM • permalink

 

    1. #%^& me gently, it rained in England and people got flooded. It rained here in Oz and we got flooded, here in our house. Winter, summer, northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere. Shit happens, and it has absolutely nothing to do with science or Tim Blair or anything except the weather. Or cranks like me. Can’t people get over this?

      Posted by mareeS on 2007 07 25 at 11:28 AM • permalink

 

    1. A seed of suspicion grows inside the global warming Trojan horse that lurks within the fifth column.

      Spy vs. Spy vs. Spy.

      Posted by splice on 2007 07 25 at 11:33 AM • permalink

 

    1. Tim, I, um, mislocated my RWDB manual.  Can you tell me whether this is a Mohammed cartoon type of insult?  Should I be planning the burning of the nearest Danish consulate?  Or is the burning of small French cars sufficient?

      Posted by wronwright on 2007 07 25 at 11:45 AM • permalink

 

    1. From Hoofnagle’s blog: “Finally, some ground rules. We don’t argue with cranks.”

      So, Tim Blair’s a crank. The Independent is, apparently, at least tending toward crankishnesh. The fact that Hoofnagle felt compelled to set up a blog to deal exclusively with “denialism” in all its many variations imples that he sees cranks everywhere. Hmmm. Let’s turn on the ol’ Precision Analogy Construction Optimizer. A guy thinks his neighbor is crazy. Actually, he thinks everybody in his neighborhood is crazy. In fact, he’s completely surrounded by crazy people; they’re everywhere. Now, assuming that he’s right, what sort of person is likely to be limited almost exclusively to the society of crazy people? Let’s run that through the Analogy Optimizer and see what we get (whirr-whirr-whirr-BEEP!

      And the answer is . . . another inmate.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 25 at 12:00 PM • permalink

 

    1. To the boats, ye sons of Freedom!

      Posted by mojo on 2007 07 25 at 12:04 PM • permalink

 

    1. These ridiculous assertions from the Independent are just as annoying as those coming from anti-GW cranks like Tim Blair who rejoice in every cold-snap.

      Well that’s damnming with faint praise.

      Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2007 07 25 at 12:05 PM • permalink

 

    1. For some odd reason, I have this vision of Mr. Hoofnagle furiously banging away at his keyboard, frothing at the mouth, while composing this particular post……

      Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 07 25 at 12:16 PM • permalink

 

    1. A crankfree blog?

      He has to ban himself from his own blog?  That doesn’t seem quite fair to me.  I’m confused.

      Posted by yojimbo on 2007 07 25 at 12:16 PM • permalink

 

    1. Is Mr. Hoofnagle still a PhD Candidate??  Where’s whale spinor to set him straight again??

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 12:26 PM • permalink

 

    1. ”…anti-GW cranks like Tim Blair who rejoice in every cold-snap.”

      Shame on you, Tim!

      Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 07 25 at 12:32 PM • permalink

 

    1. And pray tell, what is exactly wrong with rejoicing at a cold-snap?

      Posted by Forbes on 2007 07 25 at 12:33 PM • permalink

 

    1. “The Independent needs its environmental credentials to be taken away”

      Yes! I agree! And then take away the environmental credentials of every other lying, misanthropic bunch of hypocrites who have the mendacity to publish the crap that they do.

      We’ll all be just fine I think.

      Posted by ThinAndBritish on 2007 07 25 at 12:38 PM • permalink

 

    1. *Urgent call received from our Dark Master… unleash the black-ops helicopters of doom!

      “Fly five to a flight, straight out from all your base. Launch each group with three rotors geared turning clockwise and two anti-clockwise. Go Vic formation until thirteen miles out from target and hold.

      “At the precise moment Capricorn rises with Aquarius in the ascendant, form those birds into pentagram matrix and pray for our souls…”

      Bwahahahaha… The perfect storm!

      Posted by splice on 2007 07 25 at 12:38 PM • permalink

 

    1. Splice, I think you’ve been spotted.

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 25 at 12:45 PM • permalink

 

    1. Them’s fighting words, Hoofy.

      Sounds like grounds for a duel. I suggest hockey sticks at 2 paces.

      Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2007 07 25 at 12:46 PM • permalink

 

    1. We don’t argue with cranks…

      There is a way liberal FM station here that I listen to because, well, the music is pretty good. There is a line in one of the songs they play that sums up Hoof’s comment pretty good.

      “trust your heart and you don’t have to understand”

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 25 at 12:50 PM • permalink

 

    1. “I have come to the conclusion that the Independent, with stories like this one, are trying to bring down the science of global warming from the inside …”

      Heresy!

      Hoofnipple (or whatever his name is) ought to form a Court of Inquisition before the One True Faith is corrupted by those who dare to deviate from AGW orthodoxy.

      Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 07 25 at 12:52 PM • permalink

 

    1. “The Independent needs its environmental credentials to be taken away”

      They should also be stripped of their Al Gore decoder rings and burned at the stake!

      Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 07 25 at 12:56 PM • permalink

 

    1. ”…anti-GW cranks like Tim Blair who rejoice in every cold-snap.”

      I would think he would rejoice at cold snaps, and call it a Gaia correction!

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 12:58 PM • permalink

 

    1. #16: Typical isn’t it, moptop. Ya work at it all day long and still, people come running out of the pub, point up into the sky and laugh.

      *sigh* They have no idea how hard it is to run a half-ways decent conspiracy these days.

      Posted by splice on 2007 07 25 at 01:21 PM • permalink

 

    1. It’s pitiful when anti-denialists turn to denialism, isn’t it?

      Next thing you know, Mark “Almost a Doctor” Hoofnagle will be writing that we don’t need to panic over transient weather events.

      Posted by Harry Eagar on 2007 07 25 at 01:21 PM • permalink

 

    1. I was called a denialist crank troll over at Hoof’s site a while back for the crime of saying that I pretty much agreed with the IPCC’s most recent sea-level predictions, the AR4 ones.

      Talk about heresy, didn’t I know that RealClimate has published texts that prove that the IPCC was completely wrong?

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 25 at 01:31 PM • permalink

 

    1. So will an apology to the cranks be forthcoming if the GW hypotheses are proven wrong?

      Silly me, who will do the proving?  And who will do the believeing of the proofs?  Not the non-cranks, for sure.  They’re too smart to be taken in by mere facts and science.

      As for the black helicopters, I thought we agreed that only the UN would be so stupid as to clandestinely fly black painted aircraft over residential areas.  Hadn’t we decided to paint all the VRWC helos like sherrif’s dept and Channel 5 News?

      Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 07 25 at 01:46 PM • permalink

 

    1. Steve S

      Apologies?  That’s the beauty of their argument, non of this will come true until after we’re all gone, therefore they can’t be proven wrong in their lifetime, hence no apologies…..  Neat trick eh?

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 01:56 PM • permalink

 

    1. Crank: One who disagrees with Mark Hoofnagle.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 25 at 01:58 PM • permalink

 

    1. PIMF non = none

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 01:58 PM • permalink

 

    1. Dave C in comments tells us why AGW exaggeration is bad:

      Let the facts talk for themselves in properly framed arguments and if you don’t know say so. Because the deniers will leap on any exaggeration or half truth and beat you on the head with it repeatedly. A good example is the GW and the air national guard story, one forged paper made it all go away even though the main facts held. He didn’t go to Vietnam, he failed to fulfill his duty in the US and it was all down to favouritism, cowardice and connections.

      As I’ve always suspected, the warmalarmists are part of the fake-but-accurate crowd. (BTW, I always love the charges of “cowardice” from these birds. When was the last time Dave strapped on an F-102, I wonder.)

      I’ve never forgotten a conversation I had with a meteorologist many, many years ago, long before global warming aka climate change became the Next Big Thing. He explained that, climatically, severe, erratic weather was the planet’s norm. He said we were experiencing a long period of relatively calm weather, but it was anomalous and we were in the process of making the swing back to normal. Well, welcome back to normal, Hoofy. Deal with it.

      Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 07 25 at 02:57 PM • permalink

 

    1. Most people don’t know that Tim has a Collins-class sub on permanent loan from the RAN, in which he cruises the world seeding the clouds with rockets to cause unseasonal rain in places where it never rains…

      cuz he’s just that evil.

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 07 25 at 03:13 PM • permalink

 

    1. Kyda

      A good example is the GW and the air national guard story, one forged paper made it all go away even though the main facts held. He didn’t go to Vietnam, he failed to fulfill his duty in the US and it was all down to favouritism, cowardice and connections.

      It’s the same logic, translation “even though the evidence was all fabricated it’s still true” Just like above, “favoritism, cowardice, and connections” no evidence, no evidence, no evidence, …….must be true!!

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 03:20 PM • permalink

 

    1. #29: Good catch, Kyda. Ol’ Dave C, there, seems to be engaging in what your psychological coves call “projection”. Also, he seems to completely undermine his own argument for fact-based debate by suggesting the validity of the “fake but true” gambit. I’d be willing to bet that this disorderly thinker has painted himself into more than one polemical corner over the years.

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 25 at 03:28 PM • permalink

 

    1. Unbelievably, well not so unbelievable, they lay out their strategy in the comment threads. “Exagerate the threat, call anybody who points out they are exagerating the threat a ‘denialist crank’”

      I loved this quote too:

      My instincts as a liberal tell me to play by the rules, but my knowledge of the social science has me very worried about the lack of solid collective will. Sometimes I’m tempted to be, heck, a little alarmist.

      Hint, it is the liberal in you that makes you want to lie because a collective will to a liberal is more important than honest debate. If you are honest with yourself liberals, you will admit the above.

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 25 at 03:41 PM • permalink

 

    1. This too from Hoof

      We’d have to get some data together to see if it causes a net change of attitude towards the positive to justify this kind of factual carelessness.

      Shorter Mark, If you can prove it works, I am all for lying.

      Posted by moptop on 2007 07 25 at 03:45 PM • permalink

 

    1. #34: Ok, Moptop, you just uncovered Exhibit A for this guy’s hypocrisy. Well done!

      Posted by paco on 2007 07 25 at 03:47 PM • permalink

 

    1. “I have come to the conclusion that the Independent, with stories like this one, are trying to bring down the science of global warming from the inside”

      You can’t “bring down” science if it’s actual science, i.e. based on provable facts.  If you are able to bring it down by a few newspaper articles, there wasn’t much “there” there to begin with.  It’s not a matter of “inside” or “outside” either.  Either the facts hold up to rigorous, independent analysis or they don’t.  These people really do seem to think science is politics and politics is science and there’s no difference between the two.  God help us all.

      Posted by kcom on 2007 07 25 at 05:34 PM • permalink

 

    1. According to The Independent the “flooding is the worst in modern history”.
      Is 1953 “modern history” when 307 people in Britain were killed by a storm and flooding?
      Anyway the article refers to predictions by Dr Peter Stott, who ‘specialises in finding “human fingerprints”…. on the changing climate’
      He is just one of many.
Posted by chrisgo on 2007 07 25 at 05:41 PM • permalink

 

    1. “The Independent needs its environmental credentials to be taken away”

      That’s already on the docket – the powers that be will get to it right after they take Galileo’s astronomy credentials away.  Obviously neither Galileo nor the Independent can be trusted to think and observe for themselves.  They should only take their opinions from their betters, it seems.

      Isn’t it funny how these people’s answers to everything and everyone that disagrees with them is to censor, repress, stifle, and otherwise try to squelch opposing views?  They’re never content to let the arguments fly and let the winner be the best man standing.  They always take it on themselves to decide who is right and wrong and who gets the right to speak.  And yet, it is invariably the same crowd that accuses their political opposities of repressing civil liberties and stifling free expression.  Yet the fact that they’re still flapping their traps proves them wrong every day.

      Posted by kcom on 2007 07 25 at 05:43 PM • permalink

 

    1. Isn’t crank what Hoofnagle’s on?

      Posted by kae on 2007 07 25 at 05:56 PM • permalink

 

    1. chrisgo

      Anyway the article refers to predictions by Dr Peter Stott, who ‘specialises in finding “human fingerprints”…. on the changing climate’
      He is just one of many.

      I’ll bet it always after-the-fact too isn’t it?  If any of this were true you would think he would be able to predict it too, wouldn’t he???

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 06:07 PM • permalink

 

    1. chrisgo

      Just to clarify myself, has any of his predictions come true?

      I will now make a prediction….sometime in the future we will see flooding…..heat waves….and cold snaps….

      see how easy that is!!

      Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 07 25 at 06:09 PM • permalink

 

    1. #41, Old Tanker,
      Anyone who’s job description is “finding human fingerprints…on climate change” is more than likely to find them I’d say.

      Posted by chrisgo on 2007 07 25 at 06:51 PM • permalink

 

    1. Old Tanker: Especially when “unpredictable weather”, is “positive proof” of Global Warming and the devastating effect mankind has simply for refusing to die out.

      Damn? we got the forcasts, models and our long term predictions wrong?! Yep, that means we were right all along!

      Damn filthy human scum.

      Posted by Admonkeystrator on 2007 07 25 at 07:16 PM • permalink

 

    1. kcom —

      a. Galileo could never prove his claims when challenged.  He had inferences, largely based on the work of Copernicus, but he couldn’t show the work, as they say.  Basically, he lucked on several inferences. In fact, several claims he made based on his theories were flat wrong.

      b.  Galileo’s problems with the Church came, contrary to popular history, not because he thought for himself but because he viciously attacked other scientists who questioned his claims, and then their backers, up to and including the Pope.

      Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 07 25 at 10:31 PM • permalink

 

    1. Hoofnagle has been paying attention, Tim.
      You have been promoted to crank who must be watched at all times. (twitch, twitch)

      Posted by blogstrop on 2007 07 25 at 11:29 PM • permalink

 

    1. Ah but that’s the beauty of the climate change religion. Next summer when it WON’T rain like crazy in England, that fact too will be attributable to global warmening.

      Posted by Shaky Barnes on 2007 07 26 at 01:38 AM • permalink

 

    1. When did Hoofy grow the beard? Or is just grime on his face?

      Posted by Hanyu on 2007 07 26 at 04:43 AM • permalink

 

    1. Is it me or is there inherent discord in laying out a blog to deal with denialism (which = cranks) but with the ground-rule that you will not engage in debate with cranks?

      Isn’t every post in pursuit of the larger goal directly in conflict with the ground-rule?

      What were the enlightened saying about this guy? painting himself into polemical corners? I submit that he STARTED in the corner, as outlined above.

      Posted by wreckage on 2007 07 26 at 06:27 AM • permalink

 

    1. Hoofnuggle reflects a common trait found among his peers; one of the world’s leading causes of denialism – the scientific ego.

      It’s a mix of youthful enthusiasm, teenager’s cheekiness, a sense of invincibility, and a touch of arrogance.

      There’s the make of a politician in him.

      Presently he likes to have a foot in both camps and still continues to delude himself that only he knows.

      Posted by mehaul on 2007 07 26 at 06:32 PM • permalink

 

  1. Tune in next week when we’ll bring down gravity and aerodynamics! Another fun-filled science bring down awaits! Tim Blair’s Crank-Yo-Science, same bat time, same bat channel!

    Posted by Texas Bob on 2007 07 27 at 04:47 AM • permalink