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WHY-NERS
Christopher Hitchens—who notes that “East Timor was for many years, and quite rightly, a signature cause of the Noam Chomsky left’”—has some answers for the just ask why crowd:
Do not forget that on Aug. 19, 2003, a gigantic explosion leveled the Canal Hotel in Baghdad, which then served as the Iraq headquarters of the United Nations. The materials used to do this were of a high military grade not available to any random “insurgent” and certainly came from the arsenals of the fallen regime. The main target—and principal victim—was Sergio Vieira de Mello, the dashing Brazilian who had been sent by Kofi Annan to reanimate the U.N. presence in Iraq. De Mello had been the most devoted and humane of the world body’s civil servants and had won himself golden opinions in Cambodia, Lebanon, Sudan, and the Balkans. But it was his role as U.N. supervisor of the transition in East Timor that marked him for death. A communiqué from al-Qaida gloated over the end of “the personal representative of America’s criminal slave, Kofi Annan, the diseased Sergio de Mello, criminal Bush’s friend.” It went on to ask, “Why cry over a heretic? Sergio Vieira de Mello is the one who tried to embellish the image of America, the crusaders and the Jews in Lebanon and Kosovo, and now in Iraq. He is America’s first man where he was nominated by Bush to be in charge of the UN after Kofi Annan, the criminal and slave of America, and he is the crusader that extracted a part of the Islamic land [East Timor].”
More lies, I guess. Andrew Bolt reports a recent ABC surrender festival hosted by Libby Price, who asked listeners to suggest terms for “peace talks” with Islamic terrorists:
Sure, we shouldn’t really negotiate with killers, Price said on Monday, but “things have progressed so far beyond that”.
To save ourselves we must open talks—if not with bin Laden himself, at least with “someone within the (al-Qaida) organisation that doubts what’s happening”.
And for half an hour her listeners rang with helpful suggestions to cut a deal with the terrorists who have killed so many of us.
We should appoint an expert in “conflict resolution”, suggested one. What about the United Nations, asked a second. And, of course, of course, we should get out of Iraq, the cause of all sorrows.
Dear God, how strange it was, to hear so many callers assume that terrorists happy to blow up children and behead civilians are as reasonable as are they themselves, in a manner of speaking.
Hang on, warned one listener, but wasn’t one of al-Qaida’s desires the return of Spain and East Timor to Muslim rule?
Well, that could be just a “starting point” in these talks, Price replied.
No wonder The Age’s Pamela Bone has ditched her old comrades:
”A move back towards the left for you?” a regular correspondent emailed, in response to a recent column. “I never left the left. The left left me,” I replied. “The left I thought I was part of didn’t make common cause with fascists.” This did not please him.
The big “why” in all of this isn’t anything to do with terrorist motivation, but why so many on the left—facing a force that opposes feminism, homosexuality, diversity, freedom of expression, and democracy—seek cosy understanding of that force. Although, in truth, they don’t; otherwise they wouldn’t deny evidence (East Timor) not supportive of happy assumptions that it’s all about Evil American Imperialism and Oil.
UPDATE. Asked on Lateline about Jemaah Islamiyah leader Abu Bakar Bashir, Robert Fisk hit the big red evasion button:
Get rid of these people out of your mind for the moment. They’re the guys who are bad, they’re the guys who are calling for suicide bombings, yes. But we have to deal with real facts on the ground, and most of them are in the Middle East and we will not do so. I notice every time I raise the issue of the Middle East with you, we come back to Indonesia again. But there are connections between Indonesia and the Middle East—with Indonesia and Libya, actually as well. There are direct connections between al-Qaeda and Indonesia. You’ve said that on your program. We need the talk about the Middle East and we will not do so, and even you on this program - and with much respect, we’re talking as journalists together - you don’t want to make that connection, and that connection exists and unless we make it, we are in danger.
Why might Fisk be so eager to dodge any mention of Bashir? Possibly because of views like this, revealed in an interview with Scott Atran:
Atran: What can the West, especially the US, do to make the world more peaceful?
Abu Bakar Bashir: They have to stop fighting Islam. That’s impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam ... We’ll keep fighting them and they’ll lose. The batil [falsehood] will lose sooner or later. I sent a letter to Bush. I said that you’ll lose and there is no point for you [to fight us]. This [concept] is found in the Koran.
Atran: How can the American regime and its policies change?
Abooby Bing-Bong Basher: We’ll see. As long as there is no intention to fight us and Islam continues to grow there can be peace. This is the doctrine of Islam. Islam can’t be ruled by others. Allah’s law must stand above human law. There is no [example] of Islam and infidels, the right and the wrong, living together in peace.
Let’s all talk about the Middle East instead.
UPDATE II. More on Bashir the ignored:
There are reports Bashir, who was sentenced to 30 months jail over the 2002 Bali bombings, could have his term reduced by a further month.
It is also reported that Bashir used the telephone in his cell to call on terrorists to use nuclear weapons in their fight.
More urgently, let’s talk about the British invasion of Iraq in 1917.
The big “why” in all of this isn’t anything to do with terrorist motivation, but why so many on the left—facing a force that opposes feminism, homosexuality, diversity, freedom of expression, and democracy—seek cosy understanding of that force.
Because we in the West are so tainted and stained by the twin evuls of Christianity and
Reagan(oops, sorry, showing my age there) Bushy McChimpyhalliburton that our only
hope is to tilt our heads and says “I’m sorry” and everything will be ok.Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2005 10 05 at 08:20 AM • permalink“The neat thing about our current situation is that we don’t have to make stuff up about what our enemies want. They tell us. The problem is in believing them.”
If someone tells you they are going to kill you, believe them.
Posted by Tatterdemalian on 2005 10 05 at 08:31 AM • permalinkAt least some on the left get it. Islam. Its not a cause of the left, its an abberation of the right. ( if were going to use right left labels). it makes as much sense as the “Pact of steel” between Hitler and Stalin, both sides think they will be free to shaft the other after they get rid of Democracy and freedom.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 10 05 at 08:32 AM • permalinkDear God, how strange it was, to hear so many callers assume that terrorists happy to blow up children and behead civilians are as reasonable as are they themselves, in a manner of speaking.
More and more, I think these people are literally viewing the world as they think it should be. “Reality be damned, and ignore the facts!! I’m not happy unless I get things exactly my way!!!”
I just can’t tell if this is the result of years of self-indulgence, nihilism, and moral equivalency, or just some form of mental illness. It’s that bad.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 10 05 at 08:45 AM • permalinkHeard Libby Price on 774; suggest we immediately dispatch her to the Afghan/Pakistani border region to start the negotiations:
LP: So, Ossie, why?
OBL: FOR THE LOVE OF ALLAH! ENOUGH ALREADY, ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING? HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT: SHARIA RULES, GOT IT?......Oh, you mean you don’t like that idea. OK, Ahmed, cut this infidel’s throat.Posted by pick-your-pun on 2005 10 05 at 09:14 AM • permalinkIt’s hardly a matter of right and left anymore, or even right and wrong. It’s a matter of grownups (yes, us) versus idiot children. I despair.
Posted by Monroe Doctrine on 2005 10 05 at 09:50 AM • permalinkAbooby Bing-Bong Basher
It’s pretty clear that the next iteration of this game would see him called “Sheikh Skinnamarinkydinkydink Skinnamarinkydoo”.
What a filthy ape Fisk is, and how shallow and naive the whole anti-war movement is.
Posted by Aaron - Freewill on 2005 10 05 at 09:53 AM • permalinkThis explains why Deegan got a free ride on the AB FRIGGIN C carousel recently: or should I say conveyer belt-being shunted from station to station,from one genre to another.Especially fawning was red Geraldine Mellet in W.A.She was actually leading the witness (witless) and egging him on.What an elderly left/radical/latte/chardonnay sipping,bleeding heart she is.Even the dressings down she copped from a few callers failed to dampen her rage and rampant enthusiasm for Howard hating.
Howard baiting seems to be a theme for that particular radio station,local abc.
I believe they are particularly partial to
digging out of their archives a fifty year old quiz show taping which features a very young John Howard being intimidated by a very eccentric and nasty quizzmeister.
Like any youngster he gets flustered and confused and is ridiculed by the old termagant.Many times that tape has been aired by this particular station and the last occasion was after he had opened their new $50M premises.Segment played after he had left of course.o/t Did Mark Latham really admit “When I was Labor leader Bongiorno (paul) used to ring my media office every other day with snippets and tips about the Liberals.”
Bongiorno being a member of the infamous Canberra press gallery.
This on Crikey and said journo hurriedly defended by Stephen Mayne.
However Bongiorno is another of Phat Phil’s second best friends with regular,lengthy appearances on Late night lies…abc radio national.Slammer, what you say has an element of truth.
The Islamofascists want to provoke us into a Crusade, because that way they’ll get the rest of Islam on side.
I’m beginning to think they’ll “win”, and if they do, Islam and a billion Muslims, mostly innocent, will be extinct shortly thereafter.
Never underestimate our capacity for viciousness if we think we’re fighting for our lives.
Islam, out of sheer self-protection, must cleanse itself of this cancer. Or we’ll be forced to do it for them. I hope our target discrimination is good, but I fear it may not be.
If we’re forced to adopt ABB’s position that the only way of having peace is to accept Islam, then we’ll go for the second option, the one he didn’t consider: the one where Islam no longer exists. I know some Muslims, just normal people like anyone else, and I desperately wish to avoid this if I can.
I fear we may not be able to, unless we do some counter-attacking soon, and to heck with what certain SE Asian governments think.
To ABB’s call for Jihad because “Allah wills it”, he may just get back the reply “Deus Veult”. Then God have mercy on our souls for what we do to them.
Careful you don’t end up like the jihadis, defining yourself by what you hate.
Can we define ourselves by what we love, and want to defend, then? Because as far as I’m concerned, hating the jihadis and loving western civilization is pretty much one thing.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 10 05 at 11:04 AM • permalinkZoes pretty close to spot on here. 5% will conddem the rest, through neccesity not spite.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 10 05 at 11:10 AM • permalinkRob Read. Depends which way the pig faces after we feed the bits to him I suppose!
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 10 05 at 11:15 AM • permalinkOf course the left makes common cause with fascists. Remember the Hitler-Stalin nonagression pact? The partition of Poland? The speech codes at American universities?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 10 05 at 11:44 AM • permalinkI seem to recall an interview with a prominent terrorist one or two years ago. (Sorry, I had to lay off my researcher due to my spendthrift consumption of bold tags. Damn those bold tags, they’re as addictive as morphine. Oh but they do look so nice). The gist of what he said was that the Islamists are not demanding some concession from the West. There is nothing that the US can do to make them go away.
This is simply a battle to the death.
Those who refuse to understand that (e.g, Robert Fisk, Margolites, Tim Dunlop acolytes) are not only foolish, they pose a danger to the future of Western peoples.
(note: Does anyone have any bold tags they can lend me? Andrea is starting to say NO to me, curse her and her tough love.)
Posted by wronwright on 2005 10 05 at 12:07 PM • permalinkFirst they came for the bold, then it was the italic and the underscore. They can have my vowels when they pry them from my cold, dead f ng rs…
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 10 05 at 01:09 PM • permalinkDear God, how strange it was, to hear so many callers assume that terrorists happy to blow up children and behead civilians are as reasonable as are they themselves, in a manner of speaking.
Bolt is too kind in labelling his comparison “a manner of speaking”, and I suspect he knows it. In fact, those moron callers are pretty much as reasonable as the terrorists, that is to say “not very much at all”. This mass delusion among large parts of a supposedly educated population is truly staggering.
Sure, we shouldn’t really negotiate with killers, Price said on Monday, but “things have progressed so far beyond that”.
Sounds like… “Sure, we shouldn’t really negotiate with killers, but if they really ARE killers, then that’s different.”
DAMN these people are stupid!Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 10 05 at 04:46 PM • permalinkAbu Bakir Bashir is is prison, so unlike Osama Bin Ladin, we know exactly where he is.
How much does it cost to get someone killed in an Indonesian prison?
Posted by Young and Free on 2005 10 05 at 05:09 PM • permalinkMore of the thoughts of “spiritual leader” [sic] Bashir, with a special message for Australians, here.
Posted by neo-neocon on 2005 10 05 at 07:15 PM • permalinkActually, what all these people mean is, “Why do they hate you?” The likes of Margo, PhilCo, Fisk and Flavius Antonius can not imagine they are really scheduled to go to the wall along with the rest of us infidels…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 10 05 at 07:54 PM • permalinkKinda on/topic. ‘Hello Martyr, hello Fartyr, here I am at Camp Jakarta…
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 10 05 at 08:10 PM • permalink#34 Actually, what all these people mean is, “Why do they hate you?” The likes of Margo, PhilCo, Fisk and Flavius Antonius can not imagine they are really scheduled to go to the wall along with the rest of us infidels…
Good point Richard. I made a similar point to a gay friend of mine (who like to get upset about Bush’s ‘hatred of gays’) that as a homosexual atheist, he’d be first up against the wall if the Islamofascists win. It shut him up for the first time in his life.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 10 05 at 09:31 PM • permalinkActually entropy, I believe the proper etiquette for dispatching offending homosexuals is to push a wall onto them. I’m not sure if the wall has to be stone or brick. That’s possibly a choice that’s allowed to the condemned party. They might even accept using a nice pink stucco wall if the party has his heart set on it.
Who says the Islamists can’t harbor a spirit of compromise?
Posted by wronwright on 2005 10 05 at 10:20 PM • permalinkThanks entropy, wronwright - I’ll mention it to him!
btw, got to love Hitch’s conclusion:
So, what did Indonesia do to deserve this, or bring it on itself? How will the slaughter in Bali improve the lot of the Palestinians? Those who look for the connection will be doomed to ask increasingly stupid questions and to be content with increasingly wicked answers.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 10 06 at 12:18 AM • permalinkUm, just a quick digression. I have a heap of bold tags going a-begging here. I’ve always preferred italics, myself. They make the best lasagne.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 10 06 at 05:55 AM • permalinkCareful, folks, with the bold tags et al. We’re a step away from Yossarian’s War on Articles, and we have enough other wars to fight right now.
Posted by Monroe Doctrine on 2005 10 06 at 09:02 AM • permalinkFor the skeptics on Iraq and the worldwide terror war, here is chronicle of why we invaded Iraq and why we must stay.
Posted by Antonio Mendez on 2005 10 06 at 10:59 AM • permalink
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