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WE HAVE MUCH TO LEARN
Compulsive letter-writer Rev. Vincent Zankin has his say on hooch-hatin’ jicabbies:
The refusal by Muslim taxi drivers in the US midwest city of Minneapolis-St Paul to accept passengers carrying alcohol is not an "indictment of multiculturalism".
The Koran’s strict prohibition on alcohol is observed by the vast majority of the world’s Muslims and, whether we like to hear it or not, alcohol remains one of the greatest social scourges of Western civilisation. So to argue that we should all unequivocally espouse the “primacy of secular democracy” wears a little thin when such grave moral and social issues are at stake. Moreover, experience teaches us that democracy has never been purely secular, and if it were, the West would open itself to the very real possibility of losing its moral bearings.
In the true spirit of multiculturalism, it is time we put a stop to berating Muslims to blindly accept our Western values and recognise that we have all much to learn from each other.
From each other? Well, OK; I’ll start by executing homosexuals. Meanwhile, our Islamic brothers seem to have already learned much about the West’s haste to beg for forgiveness. Here’s our latest apology, coincidentally also from Minnesota:
Top 40 radio station KDWB-FM in the Twin Cities has apologized for an on-air comedy skit called “Muslim Jeopardy."
The skit included an announcer using a fake South Asia accent introducing contest categories such as “infamous infidels” and “potent portables,” according to the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, which said it had received complaints about the skit.
The skit also included a threat to behead a female host when she got an answer wrong, CAIR said.
Hey, it’s not as though she’d been raped or anything! And over in Spain:
Spanish villages are abandoning the centuries-old tradition of burning effigies of the Prophet Mohammed for fear of offending Muslims ...
The fiestas celebrate events in 1492, when the Catholic kings of northern Spain defeated and expelled Muslim forces, ending more than 800 years of Moorish rule in the Iberian peninsula.
A new effigy tradition is already set to take its place.
The Koran’s strict prohibition on alcohol is observed by the vast majority of the world’s
Yeah baloney. In Kuwait some of our guys once got a ride with a local who proclaimed himself “minister of whiskey”, they were worried about him getting a DUI so they asked him what the penalty was. “Is death,” says he “but do not worry, my cousin is minister for justice.”
In Iraq you could buy cheap Lebanese hooch for $5 a bottle (not that I ever did mind you, that would have been a violation of general order #1) and european beer. While in Qatar all of the hotels in downtown Doha had a bar in the restaraunt.
Supposedly a pious Moslem cannot drink alcohol because it will be transformed into purest water when it reaches his lips, but they have plenty of opportunity to give it a shot.
Moreover, experience teaches us that democracy has never been purely secular, and if it were, the West would open itself to the very real possibility of losing its moral bearings.
At the moment, we’re not losing our moral bearings. We’re giving them away to the God of Multiculturalism. Sorry, but the reverend is a fool, and he’s the first one they’ll behead in the football stadium when the Emirate of Minnesota becomes fact.
So when is Rev. Vinny
submittingconverting?Or moving to Dhimmiapolis?
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 10 03 at 01:20 PM • permalink"Muslim Jeopardy” sounds like a hoot. Right up there with Saturday Night Live’s “Celebrity Jeopardy”.
The Twin Cities are about to elect the first Muslim ever to Congress (Powerline has reported on Keith Ellison aka Keith Hakim aka Keith X Ellison aka Keith Ellison-Muhammad exhaustively). I always thought Michigan would become the first Dhimmistate, but right now it’s looking pretty good for Minnesota.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 10 03 at 01:41 PM • permalinkfootball stadium when the Emirate of Minnesota becomes fact.
One would assume, that those that behead will be met in that stadium by an all star team, with James Lileks as quarterback, and the rest of the team, The Northern Alliance, coached by Norm Coleman.
(Grazi ~ since that seems to be the hijacking phrase of the day ~ for the notice, Paco!)
Absolutely killer interview with a Mr. Tibi in Speigel addresses this very thing. A tidbit;
SPIEGEL: Many Germans believe that communities should live together peacefully without any parallel societies. Is it therefore right to compromise in order to avoid antagonizing Muslims unnecessarily?
Tibi: Quite the opposite. The Islamic officials who live here are very intelligent and view this as weakness. Muslims stand by their religion entirely. It is a sort of religious absolutism. While Europeans have stopped defending the values of their civilization. They confuse tolerance with relativism.
Posted by tree hugging sister on 2006 10 03 at 01:46 PM • permalinkHAH! I have a Norm quote I just found today.
"I still have mayor stitched into my underwear.”
— Sen. Norm Coleman, last Thursday, discussing his influence in bringing the 2008 Republican National Convention to the Xcel Energy Center
Isn’t he a witty bugger? Er?
Posted by tree hugging sister on 2006 10 03 at 01:52 PM • permalinkLong past time to simply ban the murderous ideology known as Islam.
Trying to pick and choose between moderates, radicals, radical wannabes, lying so-called moderates, recent shoe-bomber converts and otherwise harmless converts is all bullshit.
Ban the ideology. If they want religous freedom let ‘em choose between Buddhism and Presbyterianism or whatever. Any religion sans bombs.Posted by Crusader rabbit on 2006 10 03 at 01:53 PM • permalinkPerhaps I’m a little late to this story, but how do the cabbies know a passenger is carrying alcohol? Is there a questionaire that must be answered before the cabbie accepts a new fare? Are arriving passengers at the airport openly carrying cases of booze?
This would be slightly funny, if it weren’t so preposterous. The destination is all a cabbie needs to about his fare.
Supposedly a pious Moslem cannot drink alcohol because it will be transformed into purest water when it reaches his lips, but they have plenty of opportunity to give it a shot.
How true that is, 91B30. God (Allah?) help you if you bring booze into Kuwait through the international airport. I know of one idiot who did that, and he was lucky that the customs officers merely confiscated the stuff (it was at the start of Ramadan, BTW, so the piety level was well above average). His agency put him on a plane back to the States for being so stupid.
Yet there wasn’t a week whilst I was in Kuwait that someone wasn’t arrested by the Ministry of Justice or Interior Security for smuggling booze or public intoxication. Rumor had it that certain establishments served alcohol to select members as well. And I’m told that the Kuwaiti desert is a wonderful place for people to get blitzed in.....all that solitude, eh?
So much for being pious......all the liquor you want, and still go to Heaven.
Mr. Bingley ought to love that!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 03 at 02:20 PM • permalink#16. I’ve also covered this story and a commentor has posted,
I experienced that first hand last January upon returning to Minneapolis from a Mexican cruise with a box full of tequila bottles. We were refused by at least six drivers. Our (eventual) driver explained that more than anything, it was peer pressure that induced most to refuse fares carrying alcohol.
Attmay, you forget muslim law
#1. Make everyone that aint muslim either dead or dhimmi.
#2. Kill the infidel closest to you until there is no more infidel to kill.
3#. Kill all the muslim that aren’t muslim enough or proper muslim or from a different tribe or who has more cool stuff than you or your tribe.So much for being pious......all the liquor you want, and still go to Heaven.
Mr. Bingley ought to love that!
Be careful JeffS..I am a Presbyterian, and you know what we’re like!
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 10 03 at 02:50 PM • permalinkAttmay #21: I was under the distinct impression that Islamic religious laws only applied to Muslims.
You may be under that impression but they aren’t, and that’s the problem. (The problem outside the planes-into-buildings, nukes-into-Tel Aviv thing.) If it was enough for one to be virtuous as an individual—whether one defines virtue as caring for the sick or as not eating pork—then the West’s live-and-let-live attitude would allow easy integration for Muslims as it has, usually after some initial discomfort, for many others. In a world obsessed with tolerance, we are in a bind over how not to be intolerant of intolerance. Collectivism sucks.
Rev. Zankin can go find kindred spirits (pardon the expression) at a Women’s Christian Temperance Union meeting.
The Mujj really have nothing to teach the West regarding Alcohol. Or a lot of other grown up issues.
#19: Thanks for the reply.
Seems the marketplace would be responding to this “problem.” Cab companies wouldn’t countenance drivers declining fares--inasmuch as other cabbies would leap at the fact of Muslim cabbies declining fares.
Finally, arriving passengers carrying a box marked as Tequila have no obligation to confirm the contents of said box. Still sounds like much ado ‘bout nothing.
If the cabbie states he won’t carry a passenger traveling with alcohol, well then, just tell the cabbie you’re not carrying alcohol. This sounds like a game children play.
In the true spirit of multiculturalism, it is time we put a stop to berating Muslims to blindly accept our Western values and recognise that we have all much to learn from each other. In the true spirit of multiculturalism, it is time we put a stop to berating Westerners and to blindly accept Muslim values, Muslim outrages like public (and private) beheadings of innocents, like suicide bombings, like 9/11 and on and on, Muslim intolerance, Muslim whining, the Muslim Paleos who after all this have not established an economy, after all this time still are on the Western Dole and demanding more and recognise that morons like Rev Zankin will not be of help when the Muslies come to kill my grandchildren. We have all much to learn from each other, heh? Well, why wont the Muslies learn civilized behavior, Reverand?.
... the West would open itself to the very real possibility of losing its moral bearings.
Then before you knew it, you’d be doing crazy stuff like:
1. Killing or genitally mutiliating your female relatives
2. Pushing walls over on homosexuals
3. Stoning Adulterers (real and imagined)
4. Cutting limbs off petty crooks
5. Joining Laskar-e-Toiba
6. Learning minor tactics and Bomb Making
7. Kidnapping & Beheading Infidels
8. Smuggling Nuclear Technology or Materials
9. Funding Insurgent Groups
10. Infiltrating and undermining western democracies.
So, we better get religion, real fast. Zankin’ you very much for that deep insight, Reverend.I was under the distinct impression that Islamic religious laws only applied to Muslims.
Nope. A hell of a lot of them have to do with what’s acceptable from the non-Muslims who are allowed to live under Muslim tolerance.
For some inexplicable reason, large swaths of Western society are willingly accepting these religious laws, while spitting in the face of anyone who wants to live by a Western religious law.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 10 03 at 06:19 PM • permalinkRob Crawford
For some inexplicable reason, large swaths of Western society are willingly accepting these religious laws, while spitting in the face of anyone who wants to live by a Western religious law.
The reason according to Victor Davis Hanson
But now all that hard-won effort of some 2,500 years is at risk. The new enemies of Reason are not the enraged democrats who executed Socrates, the Christian zealots who persecuted philosophers of heliocentricity, or the Nazis who burned books. No, they are a pampered and scared Western public that caves to barbarism — dwarves who sit on the shoulders of dead giants, and believe that their present exalted position is somehow related to their own cowardly sense of accommodation.
Attmay #21: I was under the distinct impression that Islamic religious laws only applied to Muslims.
You may be under that impression but they aren’t, and that’s the problem.
bobpence is right. The only religious laws that apply only to Muslims are the Five Pillars (say the shada, pray 5 times a day, give alms, fast, and do the hajj.) Other laws are seen as having universal application. Pork and alcohol are unclean not just to Muslims but to all humans; infidels are not punished except in places like Saudi Arabia. Other infractions carry the death penalty, like blasphemy and insulting the Prophet. These are seen as violations of God’s law, which applies universally, like the Law of Gravity. Hence the fatwas against the Danish cartoonists.
#33 If we avoid the obvious conclusion that this is all a set-up by muslims to enforce their will upon non-muslims, we could say that CAIR’s reaction is preciselt the cause of islamophobia
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 03 at 07:06 PM • permalink#22 Grimmy, somehow you missed
4. Make all others submit.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 03 at 07:08 PM • permalinkWhy are these idiots complaining about an arab word Al Cohol? The ...any translation anyone?
Is it like El loco ?
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 03 at 07:11 PM • permalink#29 I like it El Cid.
We’ve got a crusading force: Grimmy, Wimpy, El Cid, Crusader Rabbit, The Pope.
Where should we start? I always favour Constantinople. Make Hagia Siophia a church again. Militarily, where would the best place to strike be? I think damascus and Quetta.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 03 at 07:16 PM • permalinkOne of the PM’s advisory council sounds more rational on Islam than the preist.
Dr Ali is asking for reform for Islam. Jihad on his butt in 5.4.3.2....“"The times are changing and with the change of times, you also have to reinterpret the Koran,” he told The Australian."”
The bloke has balls for coming out and saying this. Maybe the mythical moderates do exist and need support?
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 10 03 at 07:22 PM • permalinkWankin’ Zankin used to sign off in the Oz as a padre in the ADF- he’s either been given the arse (unlikely) for his ratbag lefty views, which he continually spouts in the public arena despite caveats on public comments by serving members of the armed forces, or more likely told to drop his title on his moronic missives.
If the ADF was properly run on military lines rather than as a belligerent public service department it would be the former, and he could waffle on with whatever apoligia for assorted arseholes he likes, but I doubt the marxist monsignor has been cashiered.
Imagine being a squaddie seeking solace and guidance after croaking your first enemy, and being counselled by this dingbat:-
"What?? You took the life of a fellow human?? What’s more you were voluntarily trying to force your own corrupt and venal western values on peace-loving non-anglo-saxon peoples with a valid grievance and well-earned distaste for so-called “democracy”; if there was a hell, you’d burn in it, my boy. Now fuck off, I’ve got whiny letters to the editor to write, then I’ve got to toddle off to the tent embassy and bother some darkies."
#41 Frolicking, if I am right, then Dr. Ali has already committed a major crime. You see, the Koran is the
word perfectperfect word of god and is not subject to interpretation.This is of course all rediculous, but we are talking primitive here.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 03 at 07:32 PM • permalinkSince the reverend obviously doesn’t believe in the First Amendment, let’s go tax his church…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 10 03 at 07:58 PM • permalinkOh, by all means, let’s make drowning the Koran a crime. From the Cid’s link:
“One of our university’s greatest strengths is its diversity,” Caputo wrote in a letter describing the incidents. “However, when speech is hurtful towards a class of people or incites violence, we must condemn it and take measures to stop it.” The school’s security force was trying to identify the vandals so they could be disciplined, Caputo said.
Mr. Caputo, you’re part--a big part--of the problem. If anyone at Pace is listening, please drop a copy of the Bible or Torah down a toilet and report back what happens. Thanks.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 10 03 at 07:59 PM • permalinkAnd now for The Plane Truth about Islam:
“Turkish television earlier quoted police sources as saying the plane had been hijacked in protest at the Pope’s pending visit to Turkey”.
Interpretation: QUITE NATURAL. No infidel leader has a right to walk on the sacred Land of the Ummah.“As far as we know, the hijackers want to talk with Italian authorities to send a message to the Pope,” a spokesperson for Italy’s civil aviation authority Enac told Reuters.
Interpretation: Moslems are really very, very eager to talk, and to appeal to democratic leaders."the passengers were all well and the hijackers were unarmed”.
Interpretation: Islam is essentially a sincere, peaceful and tolerant religion after all.Telstra tonight joined with the Islamic Council of New South Wales to host the annual Breaking of the Fast Dinner that celebrates the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.
Full story: what hipocrits_ western corporations are here, must have been a Sol tra-halal-o idea.
Rum-a-dumb site to see the culunary delights.null
Don’t forget, if they stuff up sue your local Islamic leader for negligence within the community.
PM likens terrorism to communism.
We all knew that, they don’t.
Prime Minister John Howard has compared Islamist terrorism to Cold War communism as a threat to the values of free societies.
Mr Howard has told an anniversary dinner for the magazine Quadrant that the ideological contest with communism was the defining global struggle of the second half of the 20th Century.
Mr Howard says the battle against Islamist tyranny is the global struggle of the new century.
Kyda’s excerpt from El Cid’s LGF link is priceless.
Trashing a koran ‘incites’ violence and is a ‘hate crime.’
But, of course, carrying a sign calling for the beheading of those who insult the prophet would be an expression of free speech by those with legitimate grievances.
Caputo is among those charged with educating our next generation of citizens and leaders.
We’re screwed.
In the true spirit of multiculturalism, it is time we put a stop to berating Muslims to blindly accept our Western values and recognise that we have all much to learn from each other.
I’m just itching to learn how to top a goat in the helal manner, and it’d be just peachy to know how to saw someone’s head off with just a long-bladed knife in only a few blood-spurting, victim screaming seconds- maybe the two could be combined, as they are both regarded of as much value and worthy of as much pity and remorse.
In exchange, Islam can learn how to behave like civilised human beings, and to tolerate other beliefs and behaviours they disagree with. And maybe how to actually park a big whiffy poo in the bowl, rahter than squatting on the rim and spraying it around like an explosion in a colostomy bag.
O/T But is M. Shepherd the stupidest woman in Australia?
She seems to spend her whole life inflicting her muddleheadedness via groups and letters to anyone who will print her.Supports refugees, but not the overthrow of the regimes that cause them.
Supports equality, but also supports Muslims discriminating aginst kaffirs.
Supports open borders, but also concerned about our impact on the environment.If she was a bloke she’d sit down to piss and stand up to shit.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 10 03 at 10:03 PM • permalink58.
Smithovitch
Bugger was that him??oh well as moderate as it gets then....
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 10 03 at 10:06 PM • permalinkThe big difference in the west is that information flows more freely. I just wonder what the result of publications like Spencer’s biography of Mohammad - based entirely on the work of Islamic scholars, yet damning nevertheless - is going to be?
The thing is that most muslims know hardly anything about the true character of their own prophet - it is not something that is taught in islam school. However, the muslims in the west are going to be exposed to it whether they like it or not. Those who are not blind fanatics are going to have to ask themselves some serious questions. I can see a great loss of faith occuring in Islam (in the west at least) in coming generations.
According to Google, Zankin is an Air Force Chaplain. What’s going on???
Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 10 03 at 10:43 PM • permalinkSo’s KL- Anchor’s quite drinkable, and despite not being helal you can get an Oyster Laksa that’ll make your scalp sweat blood, and cause you to see through time.
What sort of dippy administration licences fucking Somalis* to drive cabs? They’re just as likely to peel off the rear roof and mount an RCL in the back- it’s also a little hypocritical of the surly little rascals to get their loincloths in a twist over booze when they’re generally totally wasted on khat by lunchtime.
*Possibly the most surly, violent and unpredictable ethnic group on the face of the planet.
If the cabbie states he won’t carry a passenger traveling with alcohol, well then, just tell the cabbie you’re not carrying alcohol. This sounds like a game children play.
I know another children’s game you’d be good at - its called ‘get down and kiss my feet or I’ll stove your head in (hey, its my religion)’
France has heaps of wineries, distilleries and breweries. Hypocritical bloody muslims.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 10 03 at 11:10 PM • permalink#51 Apparently the Turkish hijacking was by a single Turkish Christian (maybe a convert IIRC) seeking asylum in Italy to avoid serving in the Turkish army. He’d written the Pope asking for help too. (And the original reporting has me wondering if the Turkish press weren’t trying to get out some disinformation to muddy the waters.)
Posted by andycanuck on 2006 10 03 at 11:51 PM • permalink#39, A “potted” etymology for you, eh.
The “al-”, as I am sure just about everyone is by now painfully aware, is the definite article “the”.
The origin of “–cohol” is less obvious, however. Its Arabic ancestor was kul, a fine powder most often made from antimony and used by women to darken their eyelids; hence the word “kohl” for such a preparation. I suppose when eyes are all you get to show (or see), such things become important enough to study in depth.
Arabic chemists, before their pre-occupation with ‘splodey things, came to use “al-kul” to mean any fine powder produced in a number of ways, including the process of heating a substance to a gaseous state and then recooling it—later applied to the similar process we call distillation.
First recorded in English usage in 1543, I’ve left out the fancy diacritical marks for those who actually want to pronounce the Arabic word properly (or dislodge a hairball, phlegm or simply hawk a loogie) because I’m fucking lazy today.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 04 at 12:01 AM • permalinkFirst recorded in English usage in 1543, I’ve left out the fancy diacritical marks for those who actually want to pronounce the Arabic word properly (or dislodge a hairball, phlegm or simply hawk a loogie) because I’m fucking lazy today.
Slacker....LOL. But, from personal experience, if one is to be lazy, fucking lazy, is definitely the way to go...:).
Here we go...in 2005 Zankin was based at RAAF Fairbairn FFS!!!
Zankin is a RAAF chaplain??
I’ve seen the name occassionally in the papers (and I only read Letters pages once a month or so...), and had seen him labelled as “Reverend”, “Doctor” and “Reverand Dr”.
So I just assumed he was a liar and a crank whose only religious titles were recognized by his cat, and purchased from the The Universal Life Church (Free Online Ordinations Available!)
But you’re saying he is for real??
Well, Zankin can take heart. On “Muslim Village Australia” he got mentioned by posters when they were asked to “list your favourite non-muslim". So hurray for Rev. Zankin.
Ron Elphick of Buff Point really needs to sort this bloke out! ;-)
I just cannot believe that Zankin is in the military. Of course I’ve seen his letters but naturally assumed that he was some lonely crank obsessively churning out sad demented little yelps of pain on paper from some basement with pages of the bible pasted all over the walls and ceiling.
I could never understand why the newspapers published his stuff. Surely they must know this couldn’t bo good for him?, I thought.
I agree. What the hell is going on?
I’d like to second the suggestion from #12 that people check out the Spiegel link with Bassam Tibi.
It’s interesting to note that he explains Germany’s problems in dealing with their Muslim population, but then indicates that France has been more successful by comparison. That’s an eye-opener if it’s true.
I’m just itching to learn how to top a goat in the helal manner
Habib, trust me on this, you’ll be itchier after.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 10 04 at 08:19 PM • permalink#12 & 79, tree hugging sister and RyanOH, both of you want to be REAL careful recommending Bassam Tibi around here.
He is the Syrian political scientist (working in Germany, for obvious reasons) who wrote (in ‘The Challenge of Fundamentalism: Political Islam and the New World Disorder’) well before the Iraq War that Arabs ‘are not interested in democracy.’
Obviously, he was so right, and Bush was and still is SOOO wrong.
I’ve recommended Tibi as corrective mental surgery for naive conservatives for years, but, unlike the majority of posters here, I’m not on board with Bush’s fantasies about turning Arab Muslims into Texas Republicans.
Very embarrassing man, Tibi, for lots of people.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 10 04 at 09:43 PM • permalinkArabs ‘are not interested in democracy.’
I guess that’s why all those people in Iraq walked for miles through the threat of being killed by insurgents to vote in their elections.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 04 at 10:01 PM • permalinkNo, they were voting to put their tribe in the overdog slot now.
You’ve noticed, since then, how willing they are to make the sorts of compromises and deals with the other party that are the stuff and nonsense of real democracies?
No? Me neither.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 10 05 at 01:06 AM • permalinkHey Hazza, what are political parties if not oversized tribes? Their entire purpose is self interest and expansion, and they relish the opportunity to go whoop-ass Hutu/Tutsi style on the opposition.
They get particularly rowdy when they claim a scalp*.
(And are overwhelmingly keen on attaining wampum, and guzzling firewater).
*Such carry-on extends to the likes of Bob Brown, who in other circumstances makes this scardey-cat seem like Crazy Horse in comparison.
#83
"No? Me neither."
Harry, do please refrain from posing questions and then acting as if you were privy to our thoughts.
I find such a bullshit, puerile approach to discourse both incredibly offensive and patronising.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 05 at 01:34 AM • permalinkI’ve noticed that Harry, like other gods, does not welcome questioning of his views.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 05 at 05:49 AM • permalinkBet you were hell on the debate team, Mental.
But the floor is yours. Were you going to say yes? Seriously?
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 10 05 at 11:13 PM • permalink
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I’ll see your "indictment of multiculturalism", latest apology and effigy tradition and raise you, one hijacked plane.