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WARNING: SMH AHEAD

The SMH’s Ed O’Loughlin, in deep Fisk mode, reports from Beirut:

The bombs come without warning, day and night, ripping through buildings, roads, offices, homes and refugee convoys.

Without warning? From the same article:

On Thursday Israel dropped leaflets telling its people to flee. Bombs swiftly followed.

(Via reader R.B.)

UPDATE. The Daily Telegraph’s Anton La Guardia:

After bombarding Lebanon for five days, and causing pain to ordinary civilians unseen since the civil war ended 15 years ago, the international outcry is surprisingly muted. If anything, as the conflict has intensified and the regional stakes have risen, Israel has found a degree of international sympathy, or at least understanding.

Lebanon has become the battleground between pro-western and radical Islamic forces. Few governments, even Arab states, want to see Hizbollah win the contest.

The French are on board:

France joined voices with the United States on Sunday in asserting that Israel has the right of self-defense in the face of ceaseless terror and rocket attacks.

“Israel must defend itself,” said French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, “and it had the right to do so.”

Posted by Tim B. on 07/17/2006 at 01:43 AM
  1. Who would believe even experienced journalists anymore?

    A few days ago Michelle Grattan said the Australian Government was ‘plunged into crisis’, and Glenn Milne warbled about it being ‘dysfunctional’ and ready for a ‘bloodbath’.

    Taking their lead, should we now recycle these excessive terms for Israel today?

    A valid comment on all this is from Queensland Premier Peter Beattie, also using a battle image:  He likened Costello on Friday to “taking lessons from General Custer”.

    We are in serious trouble when our journalists lack the foresight, judgment and wit of our politicians. 
    And the 10 Coalition MPs who still prefer Costello are a worry too.

    Posted by Barrie on 2006 07 17 at 01:57 AM • permalink

  2. The article is an unprofessional piece of hyperbole borne of hysteria.  I counted three times where he contradicted himself.  Doesn’t this paper have editors?

    I have to say that I find the hand-wringing displayed over the unequal death rates is absolutely depraved.  Didn’t these people ever watch Star Trek?

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 07 17 at 02:02 AM • permalink

  3. The bullshit comes without warning, day and night, ripping through Israel, Iraq, America…

    Ed O’Loughlin is an anagram of “Loon Lied Ugh"

    Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 07 17 at 02:13 AM • permalink

  4. From today’s Australian

    ACCUSATIONS of bias against the ABC were no worse than those levelled against Fairfax newspaper flagship The Sydney Morning Herald, and the national broadcaster in many ways reported objectively, the ABC’s new managing director, Mark Scott, said yesterday.

    One is gobsmacked.

    Posted by SteveGW on 2006 07 17 at 02:27 AM • permalink

  5. So, the residents say “...we will all die anyway, but if death comes sooner then at least we will have died defending our homes.”

    If they want to defend their homes, why don’t they stand up to the Hezbollah/Syrian/Iranian death merchants that have usurped their country?

    There are no innocents, excepting the very young.

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 17 at 02:37 AM • permalink

  6. O’Loughlin probably thinks he’s in the running for a Walkley Award for this, but with cliches like “Israel has claimed a trophy never won before - Lebanon’s spirit”,he’s more likely to get the Bulwer Lytton prize for the worst piece of fiction writing.

    Posted by mr magoo on 2006 07 17 at 02:47 AM • permalink

  7. #3 Dan, Ed O’Loughlin is also an anagram of Leunig Drool.  Almost…

    Posted by anthony_r on 2006 07 17 at 02:48 AM • permalink

  8. Paul McGeogh and Ed O’Loughlin would be better suited to work for Al jazeera, but then again they might have to be objective.

    Posted by Howzat on 2006 07 17 at 02:58 AM • permalink

  9. # 5, Mental Floss,

    Exactly.

    Have you noticed that the only people ever accused of making choices and taking the responsibility required of adults are the Israelis?

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 07 17 at 03:13 AM • permalink

  10. Bombing refugee convoys? I think his imagination is running away from him here.

    Posted by Nic on 2006 07 17 at 03:19 AM • permalink

  11. Fisk is still there.

    What is wrong with the aim of the Israelis?

    Can’t they shoot straight.

    Posted by MarshallD on 2006 07 17 at 03:19 AM • permalink

  12. Funny, I don’t recall the splodeydopes passing out leaflets before bombing buses and pizza joints…

    Posted by DocMike on 2006 07 17 at 03:36 AM • permalink

  13. Fairfax just renewed Ed O’Loughlin’s contract for another 12 months.

    But honestly who else would employ a journo such as he? The Socialist Alliance or Salem (Federation of Muslim Students & Youth mag).

    I boycotted Fairfax the day The Age reported on its front page “The Death of a Warrier” with a big ugly pic of Arafat..
    I haven’t purchased the newspaper since that day.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 17 at 03:38 AM • permalink

  14. how many innocent civilians -
    1.  first take out the terrorists who dress as civilians
    2.  2nd take out the people who’ve allowed their homes to be used for the rocket launchers
    (including their families)
    3.  3rd take out the people who’re acting as human shields for the propaganda

    how many’s left?

    Posted by spyder on 2006 07 17 at 04:11 AM • permalink

  15. What can we expect from the West? Our leaders tell us that whenever a rapist or murderer or robber breaks into our homes- we have NO RIGHT to defend it. Of course, they expect Israel to take it up the ass each time the Arab terrorist fire missiles at it. Check out the Age today- no I mean at the library - one of their letter writers actually wrote that the Arabs had to resort to suicide attacks at civilians because they didn’t have the same weapons as the Jews. His conclusion- the Jews should give their weapons to the Arabs. Utterly Mindboggling how the lefty minds works. In other news, Green Peace is calling for the legalization of marijuna, heroin…

    Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 07 17 at 04:40 AM • permalink

  16. Ah yes. And now Christiane Amanpour has declared on CNN that this is all Bush’s fault.  She’s claiming that since he ignored the Israeli-Palestinian peace process (yeah, I guess Israel pulled out of Gaza because global warming has made the place unbearable) we now have this catastrophe to deal with.  I guess defending your nation’s sovereignty and retaliating against those who kill and kidnap your soldiers in unprovoked attacks inside your own country had nothing to do with it after all. Thanks for clearing that up Christiane.

    Posted by Texas Bob on 2006 07 17 at 05:21 AM • permalink

  17. A decent, humane bomb make a whistling sound.

    Posted by rhhardin on 2006 07 17 at 05:44 AM • permalink

  18. a bunch of Hezbollah offices and homes and more than 100 innocent men, women and children.
    The deaths of innocents is always tragic. After this conflagration is over, perhaps uninvolved citizens might have something to say when Hezbollah sets up shop amongst the homes of their family and friends. Hezbollah bases itself in residential areas for a reason. This time, however, Israel called their bluff.

    Posted by James Waterton on 2006 07 17 at 06:07 AM • permalink

  19. The great heroes of Islam always hide amongst women and children.

    Posted by Howzat on 2006 07 17 at 07:08 AM • permalink

  20. Ah yes. And now Christiane Amanpour has declared on CNN that this is all Bush’s fault.

    Apparently she got the memo.

    Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 07 17 at 07:13 AM • permalink

  21. News alert Fox News.

    Israeli boots now in Lebanon. As George Bush said in remarks caught on open mike in conversation with Tony Blair, (paraphrasing) ‘what needs to happen to stop this bullshit, is for Syria and Iran to stop hezbollah and hamas’.

    Go for Damascus, Israel. The U.S. has your back, at least if GWB has anything to do with it.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 07:25 AM • permalink

  22. As to Christiane Amanpour, her husband is a former official within the Clinton administration, Jamie Rubin.

    It is a rather short jump in thought, to think that Jamie Rubin, is a George Soros, Noam Chomsky, type thinker. It is Israel’s fault, as it is America’s fault.

    Could shoot Hillary’s contention that Israel has the right to defend itself and supports their effort, right square in the ass. But hey, a vote is a vote, right Hillary?

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 07:33 AM • permalink

  23. Hey, this doesn’t mean another wave of Lebanese refugees, does it? Bloody hell, even repatriating the 25,000 clowns over there now would qualify as a deluge.

    Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 07 17 at 07:40 AM • permalink

  24. Some say the Israelis are bombing Lebanon back to the Stone Age. They don’t need to go that far - back to the 1980s should suffice.

    Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 07 17 at 07:43 AM • permalink

  25. #15 Absolutely agree with your comments on Israel, however your “war against drugs” line reminds me of some of my lefty friends that always take a typical lefty position on things they actually know nothing about.  Consider the following:

    The war against drugs is actually a war against the immutable forces of supply and demand - and as such is ill considered.

    Opiates have been used for medicinal and recreational purposes for the past 5000 years wihtout society falling apart at the seams.  The have only been illegal for the past 80 odd years.

    Alcohol and tobacco are together responsible for over 99% of drug-related deaths in Australia.

    Posted by Willow76 on 2006 07 17 at 07:46 AM • permalink

  26. NOW,Israel reports say, NO IDF troops in Lebanon..Fox News. Confusing to say the least, BUT.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 07:47 AM • permalink

  27. O’Lowghline, McGoo, Gondwanda, Mwarr: The more often I see these guys’ bylines, the less there remains of interest to read in the SMH. Except for comic value, and somebody will point that out!

    Posted by blogstrop on 2006 07 17 at 07:58 AM • permalink

  28. The Breaking News continues…

    Israel: Troops Made Quick Strike Across Lebanese Border, No Plane Downed

    Fox News Online

    The other ‘reports’ I alluded to were from Fox News TV, live..

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 08:00 AM • permalink

  29. Disproportionate Response!

    Posted by blogstrop on 2006 07 17 at 08:02 AM • permalink

  30. #16, pffft, check this out. Bush is apparently to blame for Zidane’s headbutt:

    Crying Terrorist

    (apologies if this has been posted already)

    Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 07 17 at 08:03 AM • permalink

  31. Call me suspicious, but how does The Age acquire such statistics as these today:
    “Israel says its onslaught, which has killed 107 people, all but four of them civilians, is meant to force Lebanon to dislodge Hezbollah from its southern border strongholds.”
    Apart from the bad editing (I hope) which puts Ed O’loughlin’s words in the context of “Israel says”, O’Loughlin fails to source his figures. Did he count the bodies in the morgue and distinguish the civilians from the militants? Was he supplied the figures by Lebanese spokespersons and took them uncritically? This format of “Israel killed XX people, all but Y of them civilians” is in constant daily use by Fairfax.
    Prima facie, given that Israel is targeting militant hot-spots, I find it surprising that it hadn’t killed more than four militants in the prior day or two.
    Anyway, it’s time for O’Loughlin to report honestly on the source of his figures - surely elementary professionalism requires it.
    numbers game

    Posted by percypup on 2006 07 17 at 08:18 AM • permalink

  32. War launched from across the Lebanon border.
    War launched from across the Gaza border.
    All quiet on the Western Bank.

    Why is this?
    Because Israel hasn’t withdrawn from the West Bank?

    Posted by geoff on 2006 07 17 at 08:22 AM • permalink

  33. #23 O&I: O/T, but John at Wuzzadem has a solution to the illegal immigration problem, at least in the U.S.

    Posted by paco on 2006 07 17 at 08:25 AM • permalink

  34. 33 paco

    I think Wuzzadem’s Idea should be entered HERE.

    It’s a winnah...:).

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 08:49 AM • permalink

  35. Robert Fisk is having a wild old time on lateline right now

    Highlights: Hezbollah apparently shot down an Israeli aircraft with “teleguided” missiles, an even higher technology than the feared wire-guided missile. Also, since Hezbollah managed to strike a gunboat 2 miles out to sea with a guided missile, hitting an F-16 at 1 mile is by comparison mere child’s play.

    What a military genius.

    Posted by OMGWTFBBQ on 2006 07 17 at 08:55 AM • permalink

  36. France joined voices with the United States on Sunday in asserting that Israel has the right of self-defense in the face of ceaseless terror and rocket attacks.

    Gee, I swear I had heard reports saying some French official in the recent past uttered, “such a shitty little country” alluding to Israel.

    This is kinda’ like, Hillary’s conversion.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 08:57 AM • permalink

  37. The French are on board

    Well, maybe not all French:

    "One could ask if today there is not a sort of will to destroy Lebanon, its equipment, its roads, its communication”, Chirac said during an interview in the garden.

    What a pansy.

    Posted by angela on 2006 07 17 at 08:58 AM • permalink

  38. #31 Did you notice the reporting of ‘55’ people killed very early in Israel’s retaliation.  Three days later, after much more bombing, it had risen to ‘60’.
    These figures always were guesswork -recall Jenin..

    Breaking News: 2:58PM: The IDF have stated on Israeli television that the object seen shot down was a pamphlet container.
    Hezbollah have a sneaky new anti-propaganda missile.

    Posted by Barrie on 2006 07 17 at 09:01 AM • permalink

  39. Best case scenario:  Israel fatally weakens Hezbollah and Hamas, brings down Assad, and isolates Iran, rendering it impotent.  Then goes into Lebanon and helps rebuild their economy.

    Worst case scenario:  Iran, in desperation, lobs a nuke at Israel.  Middle East becomes a flat plane of glass.

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 07 17 at 09:01 AM • permalink

  40. 35

    Robert Fisk is ‘apparently’ delusional, according to Israeli sources.

    Per the Fox News banner, based on sources in Israel posted @ # 28.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 09:03 AM • permalink

  41. #33,
    Thanks Paco, hours of fun to be had with the Conspiracy Generator. I wonder what would happen if I typed in your name…

    Posted by Daniel San on 2006 07 17 at 09:20 AM • permalink

  42. The Daily Telegraph’s Anton La Al Guardia

    After bombarding Lebanon for five days, and causing pain to ordinary civilians unseen since the civil war ended 15 years ago, the international outcry is surprisingly muted. If anything, as the conflict has intensified and the regional stakes have risen, Israel has found a degree of international sympathy, or at least understanding.

    Lebanon has become the battleground between pro-western and radical Islamic forces. Few governments, even Arab states, want to see Hizbollah win the contest.

    And Anton Al, is proud to announce, as of this date 17/07/2006, his conversion to Islam...Drinks for all.

    Anton Al says...just call me Mufti, baby.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 07 17 at 09:28 AM • permalink

  43. #41: I wonder what would happen if I typed in your name…

    Don’t do that!! A spring-loaded boxing glove will shoot out of your monitor and biff you one on the nose.

    Posted by paco on 2006 07 17 at 09:34 AM • permalink

  44. Nicolas Sarkozy is a political rival of Chirac so it’s no surprise to see him come out on the other side of the argument.

    Posted by Jack Lacton on 2006 07 17 at 09:40 AM • permalink

  45. #23 Oafish and Infantile
    Hey, this doesn’t mean another wave of Lebanese refugees, does it? Bloody hell, even repatriating the 25,000 clowns over there now would qualify as a deluge.

    This comment is out of line. I support Israel’s right to defend itself, but I do not believe it is acceptable to joke about the subsequent civilian deaths, homelessness and chaos in Lebanon.

    It’s a tragedy, not a joke—that this ever had to happen.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 17 at 10:04 AM • permalink

  46. This is all about Iran and its nuclear ambitions.  Everyone, from Saudi to Russia secretly wants Israel to smash Iran’s foreign policy front line in Lebanon - Hezbollah.  It will rebuke Iran and their provocative foreign policy.  Rather than the USA being isolated we are seeing an isolated Iran.  I personally hope to see Israel do a East to West sweep between the border and the Litani river and destroy every stinking Hezbollah war criminal terrorist in its way before doing a left wheel and returning to Israel.  Don’t you love the way all those Lebanese-Australians change their identifier when they need help?  They are Australian Australians when they want something.  I say end dual ciutizenship.  Your either Australian or your not.  Its pretty simple really.  No pensions for dual citizens.

    Posted by platey mates on 2006 07 17 at 10:17 AM • permalink

  47. #45- Got to agree with #46; most of the 25,000 currently ensconsed in the Levant’s sole connection to Australia is the coat of arms on their passport and the cheque that turns up once a fortnight.Dual citizenship and offshore welfare payments are a bloody disgrace; I note the only Lebanese Australians getting air-time on the local media are Mennonites- it’d be difficult to garner sympathy for the hordes of stranded smack dealers, car rebirthers and seaweed ambushers if they started screaming about crushing Israel and butchering every filthy heathen Jew when a microphone was waved in their direction.
    Wasn’t Fisk a hoot? They should re-run that on The Glass House just to prove that comedy isn’t completelt dead at the ABC.

    Posted by Habib on 2006 07 17 at 10:24 AM • permalink

  48. #10

    bombing refugee conyos ? 

    This vivid enough for your imagination?

    Posted by Marky on 2006 07 17 at 10:30 AM • permalink

  49. #47: “Mennonites”? Surely you mean maronites?

    #48: Vivid enough for your imagination, Marky! I’d have to say that forensic photographic evidence posted at something called “The Angry Arab News Service” is probably a little deficient in the credibility department.

    Posted by paco on 2006 07 17 at 10:41 AM • permalink

  50. #48 - Oh yes Marky, the conyos of Manilla, it looks like the whole thing has spread to Asia.

    And if the Philippines were subjected to repeated rocket attacks from a next door neighbour of course they should just sit tight and take it. As anyone should. Just take it on the chin, accept your casualties and wait for the UN to sort it out.

    Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 07 17 at 10:50 AM • permalink

  51. #48 - Literacy. Read the definition. Think about it. Try it.

    Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 07 17 at 10:55 AM • permalink

  52. #51 - Ease up on the spelling criticisms. It’s hard to type by moonlight.

    Posted by Marky on 2006 07 17 at 11:03 AM • permalink

  53. No doubt “refugee convoys” carrying Hezbollah fighters out of range, with a handful of women and children on board to provide colorful pictures should the Israelis hit the troop movements.

    Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 07 17 at 11:07 AM • permalink

  54. #52 - No problems, I wouldn’t expect a moonbat to type in anything else other than moonlight.

    Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 07 17 at 11:22 AM • permalink

  55. the international outcry is surprisingly muted.

    Surprisingly, all seem to agree that the world would be a better place without Hezbollah. They’re nutjobs without oil, rendering them quite useless on the world graft stage. And I guess they couldn’t wangle any oil credits for Chirac from their host, Iran, so Jacque is on board, too, quel suprise!

    Posted by Patricia on 2006 07 17 at 11:22 AM • permalink

  56. #52 - Apart from the howling, hairy palms can be a problem on the Remington too.

    Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 07 17 at 11:46 AM • permalink

  57. I had a lefty mate of mine I called tonight who called the israeli response over the top. I pointed out if papua new Guinea was stupid enough to allow the “free Papua” movement to launch missiles at, say, Jakarta what response would be allowed?

    Worked well on him as he has at least half a brain. He could see a overwhelming response as the responsibe one in that situation.

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 17 at 12:01 PM • permalink

  58. Not to worry. An old vow of Clinton’s has been resurrected:

    “The Israelis know that if the Iraqi or the Iranian army came across the Jordan River, I would personally grab a rifle, get in a ditch, and fight and die.”

    (via Wizbang

    Posted by paco on 2006 07 17 at 12:01 PM • permalink

  59. I dipped into the sewer that is Indymedia and brought out this slightly shop soiled gem. Be gentle with your replies as the poster is a little unwell in the head

    http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/117075_comment.php

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 17 at 12:10 PM • permalink

  60. the bottom of this posty mentions Tim and his EEEEVILLL henchmen on webpages. Can I have my henchman badge now, ive been milking turtles for wax for a year now and my fingers are sore.

    http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/116938_comment.php

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 07 17 at 12:16 PM • permalink

  61. Marky, those pictures are obvious fakes. Especially the second one of the sleeping girl.

    Ask yourself: she was in that vehicle, burned and blasted, and not a scratch or a scorch on her?

    Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 07 17 at 01:11 PM • permalink

  62. You can send messages of support to Israel
    at <feedback@mofa.gov.il>.

    thanks.

    Posted by dpop on 2006 07 17 at 01:34 PM • permalink

  63. #61, Harry, another problem with those photos is that there’s no crater or other evidence of a direct attack (assuming aircraft or artillery, since those are the main tactics Israel is using), yet the car is nearly consumed by fire.  You can see the scorched earth underneath the top photo, so the car burned right there.

    (BTW, clicking on the photos brings up a larger image.)

    If this was a “bombing” (as Marky puts it), I’d expect to see some evidence of the attack, not to mention a lot more damage to vehicle.  I see no evidence that the road bed was disturbed, nor is the vehicle widely scattered. 

    Frankly, it looks more like an IED or RPG attack, although there are likely other possibilities. 

    But the ultimate problem I have with these photos?  There’s no credible source for them.  These could have been taken anywhere in the world.  Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind.

    Besides which, this wouldn’t be the first time someone used fake/staged images, or relabeled photos, to start a controversy.

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 17 at 03:22 PM • permalink

  64. “Israel must defend itself,” said French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, “and it had the right to do so.”

    ah well, thats Israel fucked. when France is on your side, what hope do you have?

    Posted by Harry Buttle on 2006 07 17 at 03:24 PM • permalink

  65. #45 daphne - Oh, please get off your high horse, madam.

    It’s a tragedy, not a joke—that this ever had to happen.

    What does ‘this ever had to happen’ refer to?  Bloodshed in the Middle East?  Bloodshed where Jewish people are fighting Arab or Muslim groups?

    Been going on in various forms for thousands of years.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 17 at 04:04 PM • permalink

  66. A comment that is continally trotted out goes something like this:

    “The disproportianate response by Israel will only spread and increase Islamic extremism”

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 17 at 04:11 PM • permalink

  67. Now, I’ve been mulling this over, and have come up with an equally true (tautological) comment:

    “The water is boiling. If we turn up the heat will it not boil even more?”

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 17 at 04:13 PM • permalink

  68. Stop Continental Drift!

    What does ‘this ever had to happen’ refer to?  Bloodshed in the Middle East?  Bloodshed where Jewish people are fighting Arab or Muslim groups?
    Been going on in various forms for thousands of years.

    Of course, being an expert on Middle Eastern history you would realise that many Lebanese do not support Hizbollah and would be happy for Israel to take them out. Lebanon has a substantial number of Christians within their population and is closer to being a democracy than most other Arab states.

    The tragedy that this “ever had to happen” is a fair response to the deaths of probably hundreds of ordinary Lebanese people (many of whom were pro Israel) and the shattering of their developing democracy. Supporting Israel’s right to defend itself is right and proper but also believing it a tragedy that civilians are being caught up in it isn’t Stop Continental Drift?

    You can actually support Israel but regret the civilian carnage in Lebanon.

    It appears that you are up on your own “high horse” SCD.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 17 at 06:03 PM • permalink

  69. My apologies daphne - you are taking the piss, right?  Doing a Margos Maid?

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 17 at 06:53 PM • permalink

  70. Gotta love those kindly warnings the Israelis are giving those Lebanese folk.  So neighbourly of them.  Putty those Lebs can’t read the Yiddish fine print that says we’ll bomb your cars as you are leaving.

    A fine example was the Israelis ordering 20 villages to leave their homes. As they left, their homes in a convoy of vehicles, the friednyl neighbourhood IAF F-16 bombed the convoy and all 20 burned alive in their cars.

    But hey, they were warmed right, which makes it all Kopsher.

    Posted by Addamo on 2006 07 17 at 07:06 PM • permalink

  71. Daphne,
    I see that we are visiting this once again.  First I want to say that I very often agree with what you have to say, and find many of your remarks to be insightful and on the mark.  I also want to tell you that I appreciate your military service.  I didn’t get to say that after you told us last time we butted heads (the thread was closed).

    My problem this time is the same as the last:  you seem to think that if one doesn’t wring one’s hands over the casualties of war that one is something less than a human being.

    I was a nurse in a war zone for two years, Daphne.  I’ve seen it all, men, women, and children, as well as the usual military personel.  Frankly, I had no more sympathy for a civilian than I did for a soldier, sailor, or marine.  The tragedy is the same.  Only individuals are injured or dead. It doesn’t matter whether that individual was hit while standing alone, or was a part of a village of individuals killed in a fire fight.  It is still an individual that is dead or injured.  Playing a game with labels and numbers is as depraved an activity as any I’ve seen.  I know that your intentions are of the highest, but you continue to mistake an eagerness to see an end to the carnage by actually fighting the war, and accepting the casualties, as a failure to recognize tragedy.  I think the greatest tragedy is the statu quo we’ve been living in for decades, with its slow death and school rooms full of children learning how to wear suicide belts and wave guns. 

    I regret that there are innocents killed.  I regret that the same traditionalism and tribalistic thinking that has caused all of the trouble in that part of the world since before written history, is still ruling the actions of enough of the population of the Middle East that they are still fighting the same goddam war.

    The sort of kindness you would have us all indulge in isn’t a kindness, but a guarantee of more of the same.  The evidence is ostensive.  Just look at what is happening in Lebanon right now.  How is it different that what was happening in Lebanon in the early 80’s, when Reagan operated on your sensitivities, saved Arafat et al, and ran from the attack on our embassy and marine barracks.  If we could win the war, and therefore the peace, by altruistic virtues, we wouldn’t be here now.

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 07 17 at 07:08 PM • permalink

  72. Chalise! Addams Family.  But you are predictable.

    D’hostie-ho-ho-ho!

    Kopsher?  Is that a Jewish policeman?

    Care to submit your latest Lownenstein blog contributions here, my tabernac cobber?

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 17 at 07:09 PM • permalink

  73. Warning: please leaving your country immediately, we begin bombimg in five minutes. This has been a community service announcement.

    Posted by Miranda Divide on 2006 07 17 at 07:17 PM • permalink

  74. Hmmm.. what adress in particular are you typing from, Miranda?

    Just curious, you know.  No need to waste ammo on aiming shots.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 17 at 07:33 PM • permalink

  75. "bombimg”? What’s that? Bombing people with images?

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 17 at 07:35 PM • permalink

  76. #71 saltydog

    Thanks for your comment, and yes, you are right I am struggling with this at the moment.

    I believe there is a difference between a soldier who chooses to go into combat and a civilian who does not—but is killed by friendly fire.

    One made an informed choice, the other didn’t. I accept that fighting evil often results in the death of civilians but I have trouble when it is treated with flippancy as SCD did in a joke he made.

    Saltydog, as a nurse you would have seen the psychological aftermath of combat. Like me, I’m sure you have spent time with soldiers who rarely sleep, who suffer post traumatic disease, and whose lives are fucked up forever after combat.

    I know war is the only option we have and I am behind Israel 100%, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t shit me to tears that children are dying because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    So I guess my position is that while I agree it is the only option and I’d be out there helping if I could, I simultaneously weep for the tragedy of it all.

    I suspect you are right in your analysis, but I’m not quite there yet. I was a Lefty a few years back and while I saw the light and dumped my own idiot Leftoid ideology—as you correctly detected I’m still struggling with a few remnants of it.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 17 at 08:05 PM • permalink

  77. #70 addamo/Loewenstein

    Did you refer to Captain on your own blog as “my blood drinking friend”?

    And your Op Ed in The Australian today had your usual factual errors in it. The Geneva Conventions does not “specifically state” that Israel’s response to Hizbollah is a “war crime”. Fuckwit.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 17 at 08:25 PM • permalink

  78. The Real JeffS—We have to know by now that the MSM is useless for accurate figures on casualties let alone for accurately breaking them down by type. 

    Of course we’re being present with unsourced, unverified and probably unverifiable images; these are the people who brought us the ‘jenin massacre’, remember?

    Are civilians dying?  Certainly.  So you think Hezbollah would do the decent thing and pull out of the population centers, wouldn’t you?

    Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 07 17 at 08:44 PM • permalink

  79. Loewenstein (aka Addamo) - of “money grubbing yids” fame is back for another drive by shooting.

    Posted by Kidon on 2006 07 17 at 09:39 PM • permalink

  80. #76 Daphne.

    I know war is the only option we have and I am behind Israel 100%, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t shit me to tears that children are dying because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Thats a long time to be shitting and crying. Want more tissue ?.....you’ll need it.

    Unless you can purge yourself of the last “remnants” of your sanity and join the psychotic and brain damaged as Saltydog councils.

    Posted by Marky on 2006 07 17 at 11:14 PM • permalink

  81. What a bunch of tossers! The only coherent theme running through this bile is a pissweak bravado garnered from watching too many Arnie movies. Israel is engaging in terror tactics against a civilian population. This is no different from the Germans’ hauling out French peasants and shooting them pour encourager les autres.

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 17 at 11:22 PM • permalink

  82. Sarkozy has found himself at odds with his leaders.Chirac has come out on the Lebo/Hezbo side and has despatched the very attractive deVillepin to Bierut to demonstrate first hand solidarity.Sarkozy can’t really be French,he lacks the essential French quality of being a loser and loving other losers.

    Posted by Lew on 2006 07 17 at 11:27 PM • permalink

  83. #81 Stiofan

    As someone wrote today in one of our national broadsheets:

    “In this context, it’s relatively simple: the Arabs lay down their arms and there’ll be peace; the Israelis lay down their arms and there’ll be a massacre.”

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 18 at 12:24 AM • permalink

  84. #76 - Grimmy and I had a variant of this discussion several threads back.  The fact that innocent people are being hurt/killed—however inevitable that might be—is cause for sadness.  There’s nothing wrong with expressing that sadness, or sympathy for those suffering innocents.  Where the left goes off the rails (but I’ve seen no sign that you do) is their inability to differentiate between ‘sad’ and ‘must be avoided at all costs.’ What makes it even more bitterly ironic is that that very failure of theirs played a large role in creating this situation.  Treppenwitz has an anecdote that illustrates it better than I ever could. 

    h/t: Pajamas Media, which has far and away the best roundup of news and blog reports and commentary on the situation that I’ve seen. They also have a link to TTLB’s Crisis in the Middle East clearinghouse of Israeli, Lebanese, and Palestinian blogs.

    Posted by Achillea on 2006 07 18 at 12:44 AM • permalink

  85. This is no different from the Germans’ hauling out French peasants and shooting them pour encourager les autres.

    Ah yes, we all remember that terrorist group in northern France.  You know, the one holding almost 25% of the seats in the French legislature.  The one commiting multiple acts of war, including invading Germany and kidnapping German citizens. 

    /sarcasm

    Honestly, do you realize just how pathetic your attempts at moral equivalence are and how much of your stupidity and ignorance they betray?  Cash in your Kosbucks and go buy a clue.

    Posted by Achillea on 2006 07 18 at 01:11 AM • permalink

  86. Stiofan - fantastic!

    This blog needs more comments like yours; tell us more!

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 18 at 01:18 AM • permalink

  87. Are civilians dying?  Certainly.  So you think Hezbollah would do the decent thing and pull out of the population centers, wouldn’t you?

    Just so, richard.  They don’t pull out, though.  They let the civilians get killed instead, just so these terrorists can lob more missiles into Israel....and kill yet more civilians.  With idiots like Miranda, Marky, and Stiofan enabling the murderous behavior of the terrorists....and complaining about how the Israelis are using “disproportionate” force.  Pfui!

    I regret that civilians are getting killed in Israel and Lebanon....but, ultimately, the terrorists don’t care about that.  And they started this shit.  Time to finish it, so that fewer civilians are murdered by Islamist terrorists.  That’s the only way to stop this cycle of violence which Hamas and Hizbollah won’t renounce. 

    The bottom line?  The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 18 at 01:38 AM • permalink

  88. #85, 86, 87

    Yeah, let’s keep killing civilians, destroying homes and wrecking infrastructure until the terrorists come to their senses. And let’s face it, they’re only Arabs, and the kids are all terrorists in training anyway.

    What a bunch of hairy-chested rednecks you are!

    “Time to finish it” - which movie did that line come from?

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 02:03 AM • permalink

  89. Stiofan - your peace plan please?

    Posted by blogstrop on 2006 07 18 at 02:21 AM • permalink

  90. #89 Peace plan

    Hmmm, it’s probably too late to round up the Stern Gang!

    But seriously, does this look like a peace plan? The UK managed to survive the IRA without creating free fire zones in Belfast or destroying Dublin airport.

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 03:10 AM • permalink

  91. Stiofan

    How idiotic of you to compare the IRA to the Arabs. The difference, of course, is that the IRA originate from a similiar cultural background to the UK. There is a lot of common ground to resolve conflict.

    The Arabs on the other hand, belong to a backward, primitive culture governed by religious zealotry. Arab culture is based on an honour and shame system—a concept incompatable with resolving anything peacefully.

    The mistake made by the Left (including idiots like you) is that it assumes the world abides by its own simplistic moral standards; and that if we all have a group hug everything will be better.

    It’s easy to be a pure-as-the-driven-snow, upstanding moral Leftist—but it’s actually more moral to face reality and ackowledge that evil does exist in the world and that it cannot be resolved by peaceful means.

    In the Middle East the only peace available is that through superior firepower. So suck it up and deal with it.

    Be a real activist and join the Army.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 07 18 at 04:00 AM • permalink

  92. Hey Marky -ill met by moonlight hmm.
    Can’t be THAT dangereux in Lebanon cause Matt le Braun has dispensed with his cherished helmet and flak jacket..

    Posted by crash on 2006 07 18 at 10:09 AM • permalink

  93. #91. - Daphne your racism knows no bounds.

    Posted by Marky on 2006 07 18 at 10:12 AM • permalink

  94. So Stiofan, your peace plan for the Middle East involves getting Gerry Adams to stop murdering civilians?

    Good one!

    What a bunch of hairy-chested rednecks you are! Er, ahem.... “Which movie did that line come from?” You are as unoriginal as you are stupid (right on, daphne!)

    In #88 I’m sure you you actually meant to say:
    “Yeah, let’s keep killing civilians, destroying homes and wrecking infrastructure until the Jews come to their senses. And let’s face it, they’re only Jews, and the kids are all army murderers in training anyway.”

    ...that’s the standard line of people of your ilk, isn’t it?

    Or

    “Yeah, let’s keep killing civilians, destroying homes and wrecking infrastructure until the Americans come to their senses. And let’s face it, they’re only Americans, and the kids are all army murderers in training anyway.”

    Ah, yes, that’s what you were really meaning, wasn’t it?

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 18 at 10:15 AM • permalink

  95. The UK managed to survive the IRA without creating free fire zones in Belfast...

    You are kidding right?  I’m no supporter of the IRA but even the BBC was able to find abundant evidence of the British army and the RUC deliberately targeting civilians.

    Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 07 18 at 10:30 AM • permalink

  96. #91 .- Daphne your throw away line

    In the Middle East the only peace available is that through superior firepower.
    is a good one.
    If your idea of “peace” is the murder, rape and subjugation of the people who refuse to submit to your so-called “superior firepower”.

    I suggest you stop reading The Australian and have good lie down. There will be some dead Arab kids to “regret” in the morning.

    Posted by Marky on 2006 07 18 at 10:35 AM • permalink

  97. Quick Israeli-type incursion to fix italics.

    Posted by paco on 2006 07 18 at 12:48 PM • permalink

  98. Daphne, I admire your courage to question, and the integrity that wouldn’t allow you to ignore the facts before you, regardless of the pain of your journey.  I understand the costs and I appreciate anyone who pays.

    The borg don’t matter.  They never accomplish anything positive.  You have to have an idea before you can accomplish anything. The borg’s ideas have all proven themselves deadly to the species.  Those that choose to hold deadly ideas, regardless of the demonstrable consequences, do not have anybody’s well-being in mind, not even their own.

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 07 18 at 02:29 PM • permalink

  99. #91

    Daphne,

    Can we get this right? Your beef is with Arabs? So I take it that you’ve got no problems with the Iranians? Or is your beef with Muslims - which would be reassuring to the Christian Lebanese who are under the Israeli hammer. Presumably the Egyptians and the Jordanians, who have both concluded treaties with Israel, don’t pass your test for Arabs!

    Why not just cut to the chase: the technical term you’re searching for is “Untermenschen”.

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 07:19 PM • permalink

  100. Wirklich ermordet die technische Frist Barbaren, Stiofan.

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 18 at 08:04 PM • permalink

  101. Korrektur:

    Wirklich die technische Frist ermordet Barbaren, Stiofan.

    (mfpi)

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 18 at 08:08 PM • permalink

  102. #98, you’re quick to use the term untermenschen.  So tell us the truth.  How do you feel about Jews?

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 07 18 at 08:32 PM • permalink

  103. Styrofoam:  A couple of queries still in your ‘in tray’ for attention, please:

    * Does your peace plan for the Middle East involves getting Gerry Adams to stop murdering civilians as your earlier post implies?

    * In #88 did you actually mean to say:

    “Yeah, let’s keep killing civilians, destroying homes and wrecking infrastructure until the Jews come to their senses. And let’s face it, they’re only Jews, and the kids are all army murderers in training anyway.”

    ...that’s the standard line of people of your ilk, isn’t it?

    Or

    “Yeah, let’s keep killing civilians, destroying homes and wrecking infrastructure until the Americans come to their senses. And let’s face it, they’re only Americans, and the kids are all army murderers in training anyway.”

    Ah, yes, that’s what you were really meaning, wasn’t it?

    Just curious.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 18 at 08:44 PM • permalink

  104. #103

    Have a look at the two photos on the front page of today’s The Australian. You can take it as read that the larger one was a photo op set up by the IDF. Do you not feel even the slightest twinge of concern about the fact that these children are being encouraged to “do their bit”?

    Meanwhile, the poor little bastard in the smaller photo is being portrayed as some kind of proto-terrorist because he’s holding a plastic toy of the type which would not excite any comment in the Western world.

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 10:58 PM • permalink

  105. #102 The truth

    Ah, here we go: anyone who opposes Israeli terror tactics must be an anti-Semite, right? Well, sorry to disappoint you, but a person’s ethnicity or religion doesn’t worry me one way or the other. I will let you into a little secret, though. When I was completing my thesis at university and I was encountering some problems with the marxist members of staff, my supervisor told me not to worry, because “we look after our friends”. (My supervisor wasn’t the Pope, in case you’re wondering.)

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 11:14 PM • permalink

  106. Strofoam @ #104.  Never mind distracting with what’s in the Oz, I/we’d like to know your replies to the questions put to you @ #103.  This blog is a two way street - you can post all the anti Jewish drivel you like, but you also get to reply to queries put to you.

    And re # 105 no, we don’t put the anti Semite tag on anyone.  Just those who zero in on the (debatable) wrongs of Israel whilst remaining completely silent on the wrongs of Israel’s enemies.  Why is that we wonder.... ?

    And you’ve done a thesis have you?  Well done!  Gee.  Was it by any chance on “The moral choices involved in watching Kath and Kim” or something similar?  Or maybe “How the Jooooos control the Australian media”?

    But you’ve done a thesis.  Golly.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 18 at 11:29 PM • permalink

  107. Styrofoam @ #103.
    Have a look at the two photos on the front page of today’s The Australian. You can take it as read that the larger one was a photo op set up by the IDF.

    Christ, I didn’t actually grasp what you were saying at first.  Your thesis really was “How the Jooooos control the Australian media” wasn’t it?

    You’d be funny if you weren’t just a sad Jew hater.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 18 at 11:34 PM • permalink

  108. #106 and 107

    Dear Stop Continental Drift,

    How does stating the obvious (that a photo was set up by the IDF) translate into a conspiracy theory about the Australian media? It was clearly an IDF exercise (unless you think that the IDF lets kiddies wander around firebases at will), and my point was that there was something disturbing about officially encouraging kids to write messages on shells that were about to be lobbed into civilian targets.

    More interesting however, is the issue of what would have happened if a rocket from Lebanon had hit the firebase when the kids were there. Would all those who condemn Hezbollah for allegedly using civilian sites as firebases have been equally condemnatory of the IDF?

    And yes, I have written a thesis (on property division under the Family Law Act). But you’re right: I should not have mentioned it, because it clearly made you feel threatened in some way ;)

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 18 at 11:53 PM • permalink

  109. #95

    Even the BBC?

    I hardly think that the crimes of the Brits in Belfast are on a par with the terror bombings now being carried out in Lebanon. One might well argue that there were disproportionate responses by the UK Government, but internment was the worst case.

    There’s a difference between maverick actions by individual members and units of the Army and RUC and a government policy of official terror. The simplest way to understand the difference between Belfast and the Middle East is to compare what’s happening today in Lebanon with what happened after the Brighton Bombing.

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 19 at 12:06 AM • permalink

  110. Styrofoam reckons:
    And yes, I have written a thesis (on property division under the Family Law Act). But you’re right: I should not have mentioned it, because it clearly made you feel threatened in some way ;)

    Ugh!  You got me, mate!  I am an inferior, under-educated soul, frankly over-whelmed by your tertiary education and erudite prednestenations, progoffilations; prognostications, whatever.  I hereby throw in the towel and see the light.  The Jooooooos are to blame; Agence France Presse (who took the pic you refer to) is but a puppet to the Jewish over-lords.  ROFL!  Ooops, sorry.

    BTW what university?  Or was it at TAFE?

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 19 at 12:20 AM • permalink

  111. At last a troll who isn’t Antony in drag! This’n has book learnin’ and can spell as well as a delightfully patronising tone ("I hardly think...One might think...")

    I haven’t been this excited since I discovered the secret to pink lint.

    Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 07 19 at 12:30 AM • permalink

  112. #110

    Dear Continental Drift,

    You obviously don’t have much experience of the world. Do you really think that an AFP photographer picked up a bunch of pre-teen Israeli girls in his car, drove up to the frontline firebase and asked if he could start taking photos of the girls playing with the munitions?

    In any event, try answering my question: what would your reaction have been if a Hezbollah rocket had hit the base?

    And, please, give the “Jooooos” a rest!

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 19 at 12:35 AM • permalink

  113. Say, Stiofan, with your knowledge of property division under the Family Law Act, maybe you can help me.

    You see, I’m trying to divorce myself from reality...tell me, who gets custody of the dead children? Chhhhhezbollah or Israel?

    And what about the seeing-eye dog killed along with his master in the recent suicide bombing in Netanya? I loved that dog…

    Oh, and the collection of Jihadi Fight Songs, Vols. 1 and 2, who has claim to those?

    Uncle Ishmael, Auntie Hagar, Uncle Isaac and Auntie Rebeccah have been no help at all.

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 07 19 at 12:42 AM • permalink

  114. MF A very welcome atroposification

    Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 07 19 at 06:58 AM • permalink

  115. #113

    Dear Mental Floss

    I’d love to help, but there are a few problems. For starters, we don’t have “divorce” here in Australia (haven’t had it for 30 years). However, if you fill the truck up with gas, say goodbye to ol’ Billy-Joe an’ the boys and motor back to Vegas (which is where, I imagine, you had the brief encounter with reality that led to your current plight), I’m sure that you can get a quickie divorce AND get to keep the kids. I’m sure that they’ll be better off with you than wandering around SP artillery parks in Northern Israel :)

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 19 at 07:13 AM • permalink

  116. we don’t have “divorce” here in Australia

    Uhhh, say what?

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 19 at 07:25 AM • permalink

  117. Oh, and Stiofan, you’re on the soon-to-be-banned list too. Wrap it up now.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 07 19 at 07:26 AM • permalink

  118. #111

    Dear Margos Maid,

    “Delightfully patronising tone”?!??!

    I’ve heard many terms used to describe an ability to construct English sentences, but this is the first time I’ve heard it described as “delightfully patronising”. At least you found it delightful ;)

    In future, I’ll try to speak the patois:

    Hell, why doesn’t Olmert get his ass on over the Rio Grande and wup them durty stinking towelheads good ‘n’ proper? It’s the only language Muslims understand. Mind you, I feel kinda sorry for the kids, but its theyre parents’ fault for conceiving ‘em in Lebanon in the first place.

    Do we get to win this time?

    Posted by Stiofan on 2006 07 19 at 08:04 AM • permalink

  119. Styrofoam:  This is like debating with one of those machines that strings random phrases together.  But being the woefully under-educated chap that I am (snigger) I’m up for it!

    I’ll answer your question if you’ll answer mine @ 103.  Deal?  Well, I know you won’t hold to the deal you arrogant coward but still…

    Ummm.. what would have happened if a rocket hit the base?  Well, a lot of things are possible.  If it exploded in an unoccupied area, it would have gone bang and left a big crater.  If it landed where people were, it would have killed them, in much the same way as Hezbollah rockets have been killing people.  D’uh.

    As for my “not having much experience in the world...” - did someone say patronising?  No!!  ROFL!  If you gritted your teeth and had a look back through this blog, yeah, you’d see I am a real stay-at-home (snigger).

    And did your thesis supervisor know that you are under the impression that “we don’t have “divorce” here in Australia (haven’t had it for 30 years)”, when you wrote your thesis on “property division under the Family Law Act”?  I would have thought that might have been a bit of a limitation, but I guess standards at our Unis have been slipping.

    My God but you are an arrogant, patronising, anti semitic fool. I suspect I have far more University education / experience than you and have lived in more countries and seen far more of the world than you ever will.  But I don’t feel the need to flaunt those contentions in blogs about conflict in the Middle East.  Nor do I feel the need sneer back in ‘patois’ to people I am conversing with.

    Now, what chance of getting an answer to my questions to you?  (# 102 - also - what university did you do you thesis at)?

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 19 at 12:08 PM • permalink

  120. Whoops - questions @ #103, please.

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 19 at 12:10 PM • permalink

  121. Dum de dum de dum.... de dum de dum… (whistles tunelessly)

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 19 at 08:29 PM • permalink

  122. Page 1 of 1 pages

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