<< FISK INTERRUPTED ~ MAIN ~ HATEFUL RHETORIC OF UNITY >>
UNBELIEVABLE
An awful mistake.
Brendan Nelson was on AM explaining what happened this morning. He said that a private company (who are used to repatriate dead Australians in a variety of situations, such as the Bali bombings) were the ones to make the mixup, not the defence department.
They shipped someone elses body from a morgue in Kuwait (and you also have to feel for the family of that person as well.)
Unforgivable.
I hope there is a big angry Sergeant Major kicking arses with all his might right about now.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 04 26 at 11:07 PM • permalinkheard Nelson on AM this morning, too. Monumental cockup, which Nelson, I believe, has responded admirably so far. And personally getting the PM out of bed so the grieving widow could let fly at him is a classic.here’s the transcript
Mind you, there are some extremely psycho characters who seem to believe that little johnny should have been holding the poor chap’s hand all the way from baghdad after personally borrowing airforce one!
According to reports the soldier wasn’t killed while cleaning his gun either. Linky.
I don’t know much about guns. How sensitive is the Browning?
-- Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 04 26 at 11:19 PM • permalink#12 - Crikey has been running pretty hard asking what the ‘real story’ is about him dying, too. A few days ago they had some people saying that an elite sniper would not have been foolish enough to clean the gun with it loaded. Surprisingly, it seems like they may have been right (although one will wait for the official report before making any conclusions).
Apparently the mixed up body is eastern european, and Kovco is still in Kuwait.
here is a transcript of an interview with the PM on this CF.#12 AD’s can and do happen, cleaning doesn’t have to be the case and very experienced soldiers can make mistake.
I was talking to my father on Anzac Day and he recounted a story of flying from Saigon to Vung Tau. SOP was to ensure all on board had cleared their weapons prior to takeoff, an infantry Major put two rounds through the side of the ‘Bou by mistake, just missing a bloke.
Plus a mate of dads toured with 6RAR and told a story about discussing the mechanism of a SLR with a couple of blokes, as part of the talk he had inserted the magazine and charged the weapon and safety was off, it was pointed at the other blokes and it wasn’t until well into the discuss that he realised what he had done.
Unfortunately this seems a tragic mistake, its irrelevent now how it happened but weapons are always dangerous and familiarity and confidence brings its own dangers.
It was a mistake, but lets be clear, its not like the shipping mistake will impact on his health - the guy isn’t getting any deader and its not like he is in a hurry to get home.
The proceedure will be amended and it won’t happen again.
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2006 04 27 at 12:23 AM • permalinkFair dinkum’, big deal. In WWII thousands were dying daily and we have an enquiry and all this media rubbish because ONE of our lads has died while in country, first one yet. Even the US today has a few dying every day on average. Yes it’s a personal tragedy of course, key word there is personal though, it doesn’t call for a national period of mourning. God help us if we ever really go to war again.
#10 There are some seriously deranged and stupid people on that New Ltd forum.
Here’s but a few of the classics:
Petels
Just how incompetent is this Australian government? God, it just gets worse and worse, and of course no-one will be blamed for this - it’ll be another case of hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil. The poor, poor family and what a miserable, incompetent government. Come on Howard, justify this stuff-up with your mealy mouther lawyers words. Disgrace!Posted: Thu 27 Apr 06 at 02:44pm
...
...
..
Macca
This has always smacked of a COVER UP! I think the public smelled a rat from day one…
Why did it take so long to find out the cause of this poor digger’s death (which has now been brought into question)? Why did his body go missing? I think the government has tampered with the evidence and somehow “dropped the ball” while doing so. Where there’s smoke there’s fire Johnny!Posted: Thu 27 Apr 06 at 02:46pm
R-E-T-A-R-D-S
Respect to the readers here stops me from fully saying what I feel about
this: which has a link from the front page of the SMH’s online edition:
Even more surprising than all these stuff-ups, though, is that a fatality hasn’t happened sooner. The US has lost well over a thousand troops since the war began, so for Australia’s military to have avoided any for three years really is remarkable. More than that, their survival for so long in the maelstrom of random death that is Operation Iraqi F**k-up begs the question of what our troops have actually been doing. Have they somehow found the bit of Iraq where the rightfully dissatisfied locals express their anger not by blowing people up, but writing scathing letters to the editor?
Disgusting beyond all belief.
#22 And another one:
Michael Goldblatt/Michael
Hopefully the people in charge of the return of this young soldier’s body are not the same people in charge of the logistics and planning for the war in Iraq-although clearly they were involved in the intelligence leading to the war.Posted: Thu 27 Apr 06 at 12:25pm
I’m afraid with logic like this, it will be impossible for any enquiry to convince Michael of anything other than what he believes now. Yes, the loggies would have been responsible for how to handle fatalities, mortuary arrangements etc in their particular Area of Ops. From what I saw on TV this was carried out in a dignified and professional manner. It appears that the problem lies outside the Iraqi AO the result of which makes me extremely sad for all concerned. I’m sure an open and proper enquiry will be held.
On a lighter note, if that’s possible, I know some military logisticians who would be extremely chuffed to know that they’ve been tagged as being involved in the military intelligence leading up to the war.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 04 27 at 01:54 AM • permalinkHere’s how the US Marines bring home their fallen brothers: Final Salute .
The writer and photographer each won a Pulitzer prize.27. it isn’t correct proceedure, it is a MAJOR safety issue.
The guy stuffed up and paid the price.
However, ask yourself this “how many mistakes did I make at work in the last month?” the difference is that in the military those mistakes tend to be unforgiving.
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2006 04 27 at 02:51 AM • permalinkI only fired the Browning 9 mm on 2 occasions in my military service. The training in handling it, was minimal. However as with all weapons there are three basic rules. They are “Cock, Lock and Look”. Below is what I recall the procedure was to clear and strip the 9 mm Browning SLP for cleaning.
1. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, Hold the weapon with the barrel facing to the ground at a 45 Deg angle.
2. Check Safe. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, Place the weapon in the safe position by applying the safety catch.
3. Remove Magazine. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, Press the magazine release with the thumb on the master hand and remove the Magazine. Inspect the magazine for rounds. Place the magazine on the ground in front of you.
4. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, rotate the safety catch to the firing position.
5. With the finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, pull the working parts to the rear and lock the slide lock into position. watch for any rounds that may have been ejected.
6. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, Rotate the weapon until the extraction opening can be seen, and look into the breach to confirm there are no obstructions or rounds in the chamber.
7. With the index finger of the master hand outside the trigger guard, unlock the slide and ease the working parts to the front. Push the slide lock pin out and remove the slide lock. Slide the working parts to the front to release them from the rail.
8. Place the slide and the rail (pistol grip) in front of you and commence cleaning operations.
Apologies for any misuse of wrong terminology, as a machine gunner carrying either the M-60, Mag 58 or M-240, you’re in a “world of hurt” if you need to draw your side arm.
Posted by deadparrot on 2006 04 27 at 03:19 AM • permalink#33. It’s not a Major offence, to clean a loaded weapon, it’s a Major offence to have a UD (Unlawful Discharge).
Harry is correct in that it’s a Major Safety issue to clean a loaded weapon, because it can lead to a. an Unlawful Discharge and b. the death of yourself or one of your mates.
The only time I’ve ever seen a loaded weapon cleaned, was when the Gun was wiped over with a shaving brush, to remove dust.
Weapons are rarely faulty, unless due to neglect, or by tampering with them. i.e. match stick under the safety sear of the L1-A1 SLR. I did have one M-60 that was faulty, but that was due to the loss of a roll pin, which had not been fitted properly. subsequently the gun failed to fire more than one round at a time.
Posted by deadparrot on 2006 04 27 at 03:51 AM • permalink#35. Except that the good folks that farmed out all the logistical transportation of supplies and the recovery of Australian deceased servicemen was none other than the Hon. Kim Beazley and the Australian Labor Party.
Posted by deadparrot on 2006 04 27 at 03:58 AM • permalink33. “if it is indeed a MAJOR offence, then i think it is unlikely that the unfortunate soldier would have commited such a MAJOR infraction of the military code.”
it is a MAJOR safety issue, but I’ve seen it done (and gone ballistic at the offender) - mistakes happen, you think it is unlikely that the guy made the mistake and it went wrong - the 26,000 or so soldiers in the army haven’t made the mistake in years (last I’m aware of with a 9mm and live rounds was the female reservist who shot herself on the range in Brisbane in 1990ish) - that already makes his error about a one in 420,000 occurance.
Statistically unlikely things happen.
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2006 04 27 at 04:03 AM • permalinkThere’s only one person to blame for this monumental stuff up -
Chimperor Smirky McFlightsuit Cokespoon Busch The Younger-Thats who.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 04 27 at 04:38 AM • permalinkI guess most of us wouldnt be aufait with the repatriation procedures of deceased civilians and service personnel . Best thing to do is listen to a funeral director here or overseas and find out . Next thing to do ,for those who think we have a mortuary regiment,body plane ,pilots ,chaplains on standby in the fifteen deployment regions of the world where we have soldiers with guns , is to get real and accept the present day army restrictions . Unless you are made in the USA you get sent home with all the other civilians who die overseas ,in the back of a freight plane or airliner . We just dont have spare men any more . Just leave the military alone and let them get on with it .Sue the kuwaitis , blame George Bush ,and John Howard ,take your medicine ,wipe the spittle flecks off your chin and go to your bunks .
Posted by The Captain on 2006 04 27 at 05:50 AM • permalinkif you read the transcripts linked above, the civilian company used for shipping o/s deceased has been used without problems for years, including the Bali bombings. Its just one of those unfortunate stuff ups.
Can you believe there are jokers saying that there should be a military plane dedicated to bringing home the dead? Real good use of resources, that. Quiet duty though....incompetence? stupidity? carelessness? thoughtlessness?, it’s hard to tell with this government.
Obviously, darrinh, you didn’t read anyone else’s comments where it was explained that the mistake was made by the private company that takes care of these things. I suppose you’d rather your leaders personally take care of things like this—maybe they could use their own private planes or something. I suppose you also think there should be a government committee set up to oversee the tending of your hangnails and paper cuts.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 04 27 at 06:31 AM • permalink#12 et al, I’m a little late on this as usual, but I did shoot a mattress with a Browning Hi-Power (as the 9mm Parabellum is called in the States), while trying to unload it: I had dropped the magazine and was racking the slide to clear the chamber, and I lost my grip on the slide before it was all the way back; the slide went forward, the hammer followed it down, and the re-chambered round made a hole in my bed.
... Safety? What’s that?...
Sorry for the guy and all that, but these things happen. It is being worked over for all it is worth in anti-government impact.
Soldiers do have accidents, and the wrong bodies go into the wrong rooms, even in hospitals - where you might have the wrong bit cut off.
"In East Timor at the moment there’s a lot of concern about another issue, that is the Steyr rifles. There was an accidental shooting death last week of an Australian Corporal, Stewart Jones, and there have been 77 accidental discharges. How do you explain that?"
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s163813.htmNot interested in blaming anyone, but still
“Not happy, Angus” (and his predecessors)
Irrespective of the performance of “Kenyon International” in dealing with past aweful cargoes, having military personnel who die on active duty dealt with by “contractors” sucks, plain & simple.
The Defence Minister has said that he’ll change that practice & I’m very glad to hear it.
And if the Army has stuffed up re what was said to have been the cause of death (implied from what the Defence Minister said today) then I hope Angus Houston has a very uncomfortable time ahead.
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 04 27 at 08:52 AM • permalink#48 Yes, I was in East Timor during the INTERFET phase and anecdotally at least, the UD’s were well over a hundred (mostly Steyr). One, a three round UD from an F89 Minimi was about 50 metres away from me. So maybe there is a problem in large scale (for Australia) deployments where a variety of units make up the total force. However, in this soldiers case, given his battalion and background (ECN) there shouldn’t have been. But everyone in the media have become instant experts, are theorising and putting forward scenarios as to what might have happened etc etc. I’ve never fired a 9mm pistol, or any pistol for that matter, I’ve only ever been a defence civvy attached to a military HQ so I couldn’t even hazard a guess as to what happened. I’m happy to wait for a full military enquiry, but the MSM of course want to know the answers now or yesterday so that in their righteous indignation they can beat some poor sod to death about it.
GWB has escaped the blame for this one, it looks like falling on JWH, who apart from being the PM of Aust, is also directly responsible for every cut, bruise, STD, wound or death of any serviceman serving in Aust or overseas. But then again, if we weren’t in Iraq he wouldn’t be, would he? The MSM piss me off so much at times that it leaves me speechless.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 04 27 at 09:09 AM • permalinkAll sympathy to family..
SBS news tonight...Kostakidis.
“The P.M. John Howard has been QUICK to DEFLECT criticism (of the mix up with bodies).
Yet four and a half hours earlier on ABC radio news the P.M. was saying “I take full responsibility,I have to take it on the chin,the buck has to stop somewhere and it does with me..”
On another news,also much earlier.."John Howard was woken up and took the call...which was the first time he heard about the mistake.”
Then much later in the SBS news Kostakidis does a quick reversabout in a sound bite..no apology ..."John Howard has apologized to the widow of...”
SBS news tonite.
5 mins Howard “non apology and general stuff up”.
2mins 20 on AWB,(Fed stuff up,Lachlan Carter,Dateline awb programme etc).
2 mins U.K. Blair Govt stuff up ("he’s already in trouble over the Iraq War etc…
and NOW they’ve not repatriated(imagine the screams if they HAD) thousands of murderers,pedophiles,rapists etc of foreign ancestry..)Predicts Blair will stand down sooner than expected…
25 seconds Two suicide bombings in Egypt.
2 minutes -The C.I.A. and secret flights in Europe..specially singles out Sweden along with U.S.
28 seconds -Iran’s warning to the U.S.
1 minute -India and Pakistan talks to avoid “accidental” nuking of each other.
33 seconds U.S. and India nuclear agreement NOT a good thing,will set a dangerous precedent and India (unlike I THINK they said..could have been LIKE) Iran is not a signatory to disarmament.
20 seconds- Santiago students clash with police over the quality of education -in Santiago.
50 seconds -Chernobyl.
Finance, Chinese Pres Hu “gets a right royal welcome in Nigeria,following his trip to Saudi,yet George W Bush criticises China.Next stop Kenya.
SBS news thoughtfully ends with 3o seconds footage of the WRONG coffin arriving in Sydney,the distressed relatives and army friends and the wrong coffin being loaded into a hearse....SCD - I think it might have been better if the Minister had put a sock in it until at least an initial enquiry had compiled a report. Releasing little sound bites here and there doesn’t help at all.
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 04 27 at 09:19 AM • permalinkWhile it is very tragic, and a mistake has compounded an accident, why is it that someone always must be blamed and must be punished? The young soldier’s body isn’t missing, merely delayed. Steps are being taken to ensure this kind of thing doesn’t happen again. Isn’t there enough sorrow in the world without ranting on endlessly about mistakes and accidents?
Yes, crash, the agenda SBS is pushing is not exactly subtle. I like this bit -
“John Howard was woken up and took the call...which was the first time he heard about the mistake.”
Callous lies! Surely it’s reasonable to expect that someone from Howard’s office would have appeared in a dream of his informing him of this event - what’s the bet he’ll say he can’t recall?
Posted by James Waterton on 2006 04 27 at 01:07 PM • permalinkI recall two weapons handling ‘incidents’.
1. During Infantry Training School (USMC, early 80s) we were firing LAAWs, which are 66mm rockets, individually wrapped for freshness. One failed to fire, and the Marine in possession of the lazy rocket tried to follow the procedures for handling it. He didn’t notice that everyone else on the range, including the range officers, fled behind the berms as soon as they realized the situation. One of the instructors did scream at him to drop it and run. As I recall, they shot it.
2. A friend who was boarding with me years later was showing a visitor his prized M-1 carbine. I was saying goodnight to my beau before returning to the living room, when a heard that noise. Anyone who has fired firearms, and who has worked at a range, seems to be able to detect a live shot as opposed to one on TV. I went into the living room to find the two of them frozen, staring at one corner of the TV. My genius friend had managed to shoot the right side of the TV, the round exiting on an angle out the back, through the wall, and exited the outside wall. I tried to gauge the angle and stared at the neighbors house across from my own. Due to the shape of their lot, their swimming pool was in the front yard, and I recall myself staring transfixed, looking for signs of a leak or sceams from within. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the TV still worked. I confiscated all live ammunition.I was on a refresher course at the QRA for my rifle licence. There were 10 of us on the 25m range using .22 rimfire rifles. One by one we completed our magazine, clear the rifle, removed the bolt and retreated from the mound…
...except for this 18 year old kid, who’d never fired a rifle before, who turned around, after he’d thought he’d fired 5 shots. He hadn’t cleard his weapon and he was pointing the barrel in our general direction with a big grin on his face saying how cooool this was.
We all froze momentarily then I yelled:
“Turn the fuck around and lay the rifle on the ground, pointing down range...etc etc”
He just looked at us like a stunned mullet and took another five seconds to react. Finally the range officer walked over, physically turned him around, and cleared the weapon.
RebeccaH wrote:
While it is very tragic, and a mistake has compounded an accident, why is it that someone always must be blamed and must be punished?
Because certain groups are willing to seize anything, including a fallen soldier’s corpse, to attack others.
Posted by Patrick Chester on 2006 04 27 at 07:13 PM • permalink#56
On the range one day at Singleton a young private depressed the trigger on his SLR for the first time and several bullets were fired.
He was ordered to put the rifle down and bodily hefted up by the shoulders and dragged away from the firing area. His weapon was checked and it was found that someone had put piece of a matchstick in it which made it fire as a semi-automatic.
Scared the shit out of the private (and the SNCOs, no doubt).
In the Army Reserve your weapon was kept in the armoury at the depot, you never got the same weapon if you were a lowly private.
On another occasion the Company Sergeant Major was out playing the enemy on a night manouevre using blanks. He fired his SLR, his weapon broke, and the rat-tail (block, I think) flew out. Fortunately he was firing from the hip and wasn’t injured.
Then there was the day at Singleton when 1/15 Lancers (Turret-Heads) were firing on the range at Singleton. Someone on a pushbike rode past the flag, etc, and through the range. Not sure what happened about that, but it was on the military radio!
You never mistake the sound of live firing. I was on butt-party my first trip to the range and that was enlightening!
Re the meeja and their attempts to canonize Pte Kovco’s family, last night on the channel 7 news they gave plenty of airtime to his mother.
From a technical point of view it was impressive, as the shot was looking at the mother with a man from the army in front of her. We couldn’t see his face, nor the face of her husband (I assume) who was standing next to her with his hand on her shoulder.
We got to hear everything she was saying, and nothing the man from the army had to say in reply.
She was justifiably upset, and angry, about the stuff-up.
I’ve a very strong suspicion that she had a radio mike on. If a boom with a sock was being used, then everything would have been heard, not just one side of the conversation.
There is no question that a tragedy has befallen her family, but if the msm are stooping to wiring up a woman as she berates the bearer of bad tidings, then we are sinking fast.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 04 27 at 09:00 PM • permalinkWhat could you say to alleviate Mrs Kovco’s distress?
Not to mention the stepbrother who went on and on and on about how it had torn up his family and the terrible insult it was on the deceased brother and how they’d never get over it and what an insult and how torn up they were about it and being lied to and what had really happened and where was the body and how had he really died and ....
I admired the wife for her (previous)strength in adversity, but the rest of the family have totally lost it - and I suspect they are being directed by the “if it bleeds it leads” media.
Page 1 of 1 pages
Members:
Login | Register
| Member List
Poor, dear fellow. And his poor widow! God bless them. Defence better make good on this one.