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PLASTIC TURKEY FRENZY
Mother Sheehan, shown here at a triumphant book signing, joins the plastic turkey conspiracy:
I have met so many amazing, loving, and delightful people since I started my quest to end the occupation of Iraq. My Gold Star Families are especially dear to me. In their tragedies they have found a way to bring their horrible grief to the forefront of the American consciousness and help America see the terrible price some of us have had to pay. One of my Gold Star Moms had her son commit suicide two years ago as George was smirkingly serving the plastic turkey.
Question: is Sheehan lying or is she the victim of poor intelligence? Also joining the plasticists is Kevin Zeese:
In 2003 President Bush made a surprise visit to the troops in Iraq, put on an Army jacket and served the troops a turkey. The photograph and video of a smiling president serving the loyal troops was played throughout the country - over and over. Only later did we discover that the service was a staged event and the turkey was plastic.
Except we’d learned earlier that it wasn’t! Jeff Alworth is yet another plastic turkey newbie:
After invading Iraq, Bush celebrated Thanksgiving with the troops. Pictures of him in front of a golden turkey were whisked to FOX News, who was trying to help give birth to another myth. (The turkey was a plastic fake and the soldiers got the same old KBR offering.)
These people are idiots.
You get a gold star when your son kills himself?
Posted by Rittenhouse on 2005 11 28 at 10:02 AM • permalinkPictures of him in front of a golden turkey were whisked to FOX News, who was trying to help give birth to another myth.
Except that the myth is being concocted by your side, buddy.
These people aren’t just idiots, they’re also beyond parody. The term “projection” doesn’t even come close to describing the phenomenon anymore.
I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed those pictures of MamaCindy’s book signing. It’s the first picture I’ve ever seen of her without that big-toothed goofy grin plastered on her face. Reality bites, eh, Mama?
I also question some of her wording. A Gold Star mother had her son commit suicide? I could make jokes, but it would be tasteless and wrong.
The turkey was a plastic fake and the soldiers got the same old KBR offering.
Actually, the KBR turkey was pretty good. Any bad taste in Alworth’s mouth is from swallowing this story.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 28 at 12:16 PM • permalinkCalling her the victim of poor intelligence is being overly generous, what intelligence she once had is spent.
Posted by -keith in mtn. view on 2005 11 28 at 12:51 PM • permalinkOne has to question the validity of any of Alworth’s observations. Even in the picture he’s using, the turkey doesn’t look fake.
As with most anti-American lefties, who wouldn’t think of giving up their comfortable life style in order to defend said style, he has little knowledge of the very military he likes to denigrate. The President is, per the US Constitution, the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces. I don’t think many of these over/under-educated clowns realize this. As such, he is entitled to wear any uniform he feels is appropriate.
In the picture, he is wearing the nylon warm-up jacket that goes with the Army Physical Training Uniform. It’s casual. It has a 1st Armored Division patch on it, a frequent modification in keeping with unit esprit d’corps. It was probably given to him by the senior officer present when he landed. This way the troops will see the Prez in one of their uniforms. They like that. Even Mr. Clinton did this. I didn’t hear any bitching or catty remarks then.
The definition of “asshat” gains clarity.
Yes, yes, but you all miss the point. First, he was holding a turkey. Second, he was wearing a nylon jacket. Ergo, Bush is Hitler.
Sheep.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 28 at 01:33 PM • permalinkwronwright, I have one of those jackets, sans the 1st Armor Division patch. Since I’ve eaten the KBR turkey, I must be, who, Goering? Himmler? Goebbels? By Jeff Alworth’s logic, anyhoo.
And calling his web site “BlueOregon” is like saying “wet water”—that state leans so far left, the city of Portland is nicknamed “Little Beirut” (pre-Syrian pullout Beirut, I mean) by police agencies around it.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 28 at 02:21 PM • permalinkTRJS, what are you? A sheep. In black jackboots. And a nylon jacket. A sheep jacket.
With raised arm, shouting “heil Bush”. Only, because you’re a Bush sheep, it comes out “baaaa”.
McEnroe is a sheep too. Only blacker than most.
RebeccaH, kae, and nilknarf arbed are sheep too, although they have pretty little girl sheep eyes with long ewe lashes. But they’re sheep that follow Chimpy the Shepherd—nay, Christian Shepherd—where ever he goes.
Baaaaa.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 28 at 02:40 PM • permalinkAt my family Thanksgiving, my father offered a prayer for “our country which has lost its way,” the respect of the world, that sort of thing. My neice’s boyfriend’s mother, whom we hadn’t met, was sitting next to me, and I tentatively apologized for the intrusion of politics. “I’m used to it,” she replied.
Posted by chinesearithmetic on 2005 11 28 at 02:56 PM • permalinkI thought you did that on purpose, Louis.
:^D
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 28 at 06:57 PM • permalinkNylon is made from oil!!
A link, a link, see Bush wears nylon.
No blood for nylon.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 11 28 at 07:17 PM • permalinkThis myth is unlikely to die as long as the top few hits on a Google search for “fake turkey” return sneering mainstream news sites that got it wrong, and never prominently corrected their online pieces.
Traditional media outlets who publish online need to adopt a similar methodology to bloggers, of issuing corrections on the same page as the corrected article, as well as on whatever corrections page they normally publish.
The best comment of all was on Command Post:
Even if the turkey was made of clay and sculpted by Rumsfeld to fool the troops, there is one item that negates any scandal (and there is no scandal):
Look at the smiles on the troops. No way those are faked.
Too right.
A lit queen named Irving Rosenthal once wrote a fine book called Sheeper. Critics tended to ignore the book but one said “not ba-a-a-a-ad.”
After some alert readers corrected the guy, Alworth is now pleading fake-but-accurate. You see, it’s a metaphorical plastic turkey. Nothing changes.
Posted by Tommy Shanks on 2005 11 28 at 09:32 PM • permalinkOh, God. That BlueOregon web site Alworth posted is a collection of bona fide losers. It looks to be the US equivalent of Margo’s Web Diary.
How so, you ask? Read this humdinger:
Gore’s the One
Steve NovickRuss Feingold is a hell of a guy, but nobody knows who he is; nobody will give him lots of money that he could use to explain who he is; and even if they did, he probably wouldn’t take it. So who – really – should progressives support for President in 2008?
Well, let’s see. We need someone with a snowball’s chance of defeating Newt Gingrich’s new best friend (see http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/13/news/clinton.php), the warmongering front-runner. We need someone who was against the war from the beginning, but has credibility on national defense. And it would be nice to have someone with a whiff of Fate about him. For example, the last time an incumbent Vice-President lost a very close and possibly stolen election, he came storming back to win eight years later, in the midst of an increasingly unpopular war. So if you had someone like that lying around, he’d be an ideal candidate. Oh, and if you had someone with a real, big REASON to run, let’s say someone personally identified with one of the greatest challenges humanity has ever faced, something like, say, global warming, that would help, too …
Yeah, I know people think Al Gore ran a lousy campaign. As I recall, he started out about 20 points behind and won the damned thing, so I’m not sure how bad it really was. It’s true, certainly, that he shouldn’t have sighed during the debate and it’s true that (like Nixon) he failed to take full advantage of his ties to the popular incumbent.
There’s more; read it if you want to see even more DNC talking points, and are fascinated by rampant idiocy. I can go no further than this one article. The grammar and spelling seems to be light years ahead of the MargoLand natives, though.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 28 at 09:51 PM • permalinkwronwright, I may be a sheep but I’m ram-tough, baby! *CLANG*
And by the way, don’t talk to me about the flubber, homeboy. All we asked you to do was do Exxon one little favor and bury the stuff, and you get it into not one but TWO freaking Disney movies…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 28 at 09:52 PM • permalinkThe_Real_JeffS
If the Donks want to run Algore again, all I have to say is this:
Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease.
BTW, that was some pretty amusing troll-smashing at Jeff Goldstein’s.Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 28 at 10:01 PM • permalinkHere’s a pic of Mother Sheehan fending off a throng of admirers at a recent book signing.
Thanks, Spiny! Idiot trolls everywhere….
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 11 28 at 11:20 PM • permalinkIt has come to our attention that some commenters have been making disparaging remarks about “mainstream media” or “MSM”. These remarks may be causing offence to our host, Tim Blair, who works for media company PBL, which is about as mainstream as you can get.
In addition, many of Mr Blair’s friends and valued colleagues are employed by this much-maligned “MSM”. To avoid any needless confusion or unintended disrespect, commenters are advised to use the more specific acronym MSMNITAHM (mainstream media not including Tim and his mates), or if this is too unwieldy perhaps LLM (left-leaning media) or L-LMA-W (left-liberal media ass-wipes).Thank you for your cooperation.
I prefer “Lamestream Media” myself.
FWIW, I also think the Plastic Turkey Cult is a fine example of “invincible ignorance”.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 29 at 02:30 AM • permalinka fine example of “invincible ignorance”.
Sweet. Reminds me of the Black Knight:
“The ‘plastic turkey’ is a myth, Sir Knight.”
“No, it isn’t! And there’s the white phosphorus! It’s a chemical weapon! Have at you!”
“It isn’t a chemical weapon. It’s just smokey and irritating.”
“It’s a WMD! I’m INVINCIBLE!”
slammer — Can we trim that down to AHJ&B’s (Asshat Journos & Broadcasters)?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 29 at 03:21 AM • permalink#31 slammer just can’t conTROLL himself.
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 11 29 at 04:13 AM • permalinkHer Gold Star Moms? WARNING codependecy….
Wron -you sure there’s no land of the long white fleece blood in your ancestry.Granpa Wronwright spend a few sleepovers in Enzed during ww 2?
For a tank ewe sure mention sh-e-ep an awful lot..shazaaaaam…me thinks he doth protesteth too much to be indifferent.Hmmm. All this talk about sheep is making me nervous. I keep expecting it to descend to a level where it would be acceptable for me to bring up my mate who got caught in the back of a sheep at his own birthday party.
/icky true story!
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 11 29 at 06:18 AM • permalinkAh Deo, methinks you are correct.
Disingenuous little snipes from a simpering troll who seems to think it can duck and weave around She Who Must Be Obeyed and the rest of the VRWC, who are dumb as dogshit.
(They said so on Daily Kos)Good luck, slammer.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2005 11 29 at 06:43 AM • permalinkKK — Parents of an American soldier in combat are entitled to display a blue star in their window. If the soldier is killed, this is changed to a gold star in commemoration.
Keep in mind, Cindy’s “MY Gold Star Moms” do NOT include the hundreds who showed up to confront her at her “Peace Ranch” and demand she stop using their sons and daughters’ names in her “memorial”... and whose demands Cindy and her handlers ignored.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 11 29 at 11:06 AM • permalink#42: They’re also walking arguments against natural selection (unless they’re tomorrow’s brontosauri, just waiting for the comet).
#40: VRWC=Vast Right Wing Conspiracy; expression coined by Hilary Clinton to describe, generally, everyone who didn’t like Bill, and, specifically, most of the Justice Department staff; first known use of the initials was in a letter to the American Spectator written by yours truly.
The plastic turkey is now a registered pest and can be hunted year round without permit or license. High caliber, double-barrel sarcasm is the sportsman’s choice.
Any input/thoughts on the Graham amendment passed on Nov.15? Apparently Hillary voted for it…..
Even Lieberman is now saying that we must stay the course in Iraq.
If we adopt the barbaric practices of our enemy, who has won? Millions use whatever means at their disposal to make their way to the land of milk and honey; doesn’t this work better than stooping to the methods of terrorists?
Have no idea what/where that null is from…
McCain’s confession#35 ekw
Where can I see Goldstein’s troll smashing?
It was The_Real_JeffS in the comments at Goldstein’s site. Check link in my #28. Some dope tried to defend Ted “Ragged Penis Lesion” Rall’s latest syndicated excrement.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 11 29 at 12:34 PM • permalinkIf we adopt the barbaric practices of our enemy, who has won? Millions use whatever means at their disposal to make their way to the land of milk and honey; doesn’t this work better than stooping to the methods of terrorists?
Your points are good, and it’s certainly a sticky issue. I would dispute “adopt the barbaric practices of our enemy”, since there’s a vast difference between joyfully inflicting pain as punishment on innocents, and using extreme methods to get life-saving information from murderous scum. The valid use of torture depends upon context (will lives be saved?) and judicious application (only when lives will be saved.) The problem, as always, is in trusting those who make the decisions.
It’s a difficult issue.
Dave,
Yup, who will watch the watchers….
But I am unsure if there is any valid use of torture, especially when viewed from the torturee’s perspective.We all have known those who love to inflict pain and trouble on others simply because they are so very unhappy and cannot bear to see someone else happy. Same principle applies to the application of physical pain.
There are offenses that are rightfully punishable by death, but if we abandon our humanity we will pay for it in the long run. We have had the moral high ground, and we should keep it.
There’s also the question of defining ‘torture.’ Is it anything which makes the subject feel the least bit physically or psychologically uncomfortable? Or does only extreme pain and/or lasting damage count? Something inbetween? Most of the ‘to torture or not to torture’ discussions/debates I’ve seen have come a cropper on the participants having completely different meanings for the same word.
“But I am unsure if there is any valid use of torture, especially when viewed from the torturee’s perspective.”
duh, I agree that torture is reprehensible and so not be permitted. But as Achillea mentions, my problem is outlawing torture without giving it a very clear definition.
I can guarantee to you that if that was to happen, we would have the mass filings of criminal and civil actions alleging that any actions, including the actual jailing of terrorists, constitute torture.
That doesn’t mean we should engage in egregious forms of interrogation. Instead we should allow the military and CIA and the agencies that watch over them to implement rules barring it.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 29 at 03:30 PM • permalinkwronwright,
I agree. But what about psychological torture/warfare? Pretty sick stuff. If done correctly, the victim becomes their own worst enemy, the slightest trigger will send them chasing their own tail. Haven’t they been practicing that on us? And using our own media to do it?Having experienced being ‘bothered’ by individuals for over 2 decades (phone calls, mail tamperings, bizarre encounters w/ strangers, severed animal paws, break ins, etc….), I can tell you it can really wear you down. You get to where you jump at your own shadow, mistake the commonest pleasantry for innuendo, every look/stare as a threat or warning….
Pretty vile stuff.
I agree you duh. Some forms of psychological interrogation are torture and should be barred. I just don’t trust the leftwing to agree on common sense interpretations of what is acceptable and what is beyond the pale.
Personally, I would prefer treating terrorists no worse than we would treat American citizens once we are passed the point of deciding to incarcerate them. (Nations should be allowed to jail unlawful combatants for as long as the engagement is ongoing). But inasmuch as a citizen can be questioned under uncomfortable conditions, I believe suspected terrorists and insurgents should also. I worry that if we enact a law that prohibits all forms of torture, the left will quickly begin arguing that submitting a suspect to 8 hours of questioning by three interrogators in a hot room under a bright light is a form of torture.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 29 at 04:15 PM • permalinkwronright,
I agree.Back in the ‘90’s, I made the mistake of calling the White House ( I had numbers..), and raising hell over a WV man who was shot by the Governor’s task force on marijuana eradication. Little coverage nationally.
I said, “Tell Bill and Hill I did inhale and for them to let that one go by when tons of it were coming up the MS river and over the Mexican border was criminal”.Few weeks later, I realize that I am being followed by a different set (nothing new,I had been under surveillance due to acquaintances and an ex-boyfriend). Had no life; grocery store, park and library w/ son, etc… one night I ran into grocery late and realized I’d left wallet in car, turn on heel to run out and literally run into clean cut type I’d seen before. I stopped, saw him make eye contact w/ guy in car and said, “You are Secret Service, aren’t you?” He blushed and I saw his ear bud. I waxed incredulosity and said, “What are you GS 8 or 9, there are two of you so that means at least four, what am I costing the taxpayer? I bet y’all wonder what I do for fun?” He burst out laughing and said, yes!
I assured him I had no ultralight and that I would go to payphone and check in every hour or so and let them know what I was doing for half their pay….nice to know where our tax dollars were going. Gee, I felt so special. All this after Persian Gulf War.
I have never associated w/ any terrorists, or insurgents, to my knowledge. Don’t y’all feel safe now?
Well, duh, let that be a lesson to you: don’t fucking call the White House and say crazy things.
I’m sorry, is all this about your life supposed to be relevant to the subject under discussion? Which, by the way, is not the pretend fuss over the non-torture we are subjecting the poor “detainees” to, so that people may posture and brush themselves up about how wonderful and humane they are by being “against torture” and not wanting to “use the methods of our enemies.” You know what, when I hear that we are feeding prisoners into shredders feet first, and tossing people over here into prison for the crime of being stupid, then I’ll
celebrateworry. Yeah, I’ll get real concerned.Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 29 at 06:52 PM • permalinkduh, actually I can understand your concerns. I think the Administration does try to implement good reasonable common sense rules.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 11 29 at 07:53 PM • permalinkDad and Dave, characters from On our Selection (with apologies to Steele Rudd)
Dad asks Dave to clear the bottom paddock of all the trees, except for a small stand of trees which will be left as for shelter for the cattle.
Later, Dad goes to the paddock to see how Dave is going, he should be finished by now.
Dad arrives at the paddock and notices that as well as the agreed stand of trees which remain, there are two others in the paddock which are still standing. He asks Dave why these trees haven’t been felled.
Dave explains, “Well, Dad, it’s for sentimental reasons.”
“Yes Dave?” enquires Dad.
“See that tree over there…” says Dave, pointing to the farthest tree. “That’s where I had my first sexual encounter.”
“Oh,’ says Dad. “Now I understand. But what about that other tree?”
“Well, Dad, her mother was standing under that tree.” replied Dave.
“Cripes, son, what did she say?” asked Dad.
“Moooowoooooo.” repled Dave.
The problem i have with the whole debate is this. If you remove any intelligence value in capturing a subjct, either local (battlefield) or major planning (Bin Liner)what is the point in capturing them?
They are out of uniform, therefore not subject to the geneva rulings. What is to stop a person deciding 2 bullets behind the ear is the best solution?
Hicks for instance, regaurdless of the outcome of his trial there will be a group of swampies moaning and bitching about him forever. Millions will be spent “defending” him and launching never ending appeals for him.
I have read on (Yon’s site?) other blogs of soldiers being shot at by insurgents they picked up only a week or 2 earlier who have been released from detention.
Sooner or later it will end up with a sharp drop in combatants captured and a large increase in those killed.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 11 29 at 08:12 PM • permalinkkae: “these days”? Since when has it ever been “safe” to do such a thing?
You know, there’s more important freedoms than the freedom to clog up the phone lines to government offices so you can give them a piece of your this-substance-should-be-legal mind.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 29 at 08:36 PM • permalinkphoning the council/motor registry etc and venting is not a good idea. I think that before we had people prepared to die and kill others in the effort, a lot of ranting/venting/complaining to government bodies was taken as ‘letting off steam’. Now it’d be looked at in a whole new light. (depending on what was said, of course)
Although I am not in the habit of abusing/threatening people over the phone (or any other way).
About giving up freedoms, I’d like to know that me and mine are being watched out for, that the chances of anyone being killed by a terrorist attack in Aus are miniscule because of being watched out for; but I am not going to sit at home because there might be a chance that something may happen.
These days are different here in Australia. It’s not the same as it was 30 years ago. And I don’t think that’s a good thing, but it’s necessary.
kae, Hit the nail on the head there.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 11 29 at 08:50 PM • permalinkThanks thefrollickingmole - when you gonna write a book about your (mis)adventures?
What I said about being watched out for, this is also why we have rules and regulations (road rules, safety regulations, occ health and safety - tho OH&S is mostly regulated {un}common sense, etc). These new precautions we have to take are an imposition, but are necessary.
Though Amanda Vanstone did have a point about the over-the-top precautions taken regarding flights and flying.
#68 Frollicking,
That happened during the Second World War. Early in the Guadalcanal Campaign a Japanese came in to Marine lines saying he was a deserter. He said there many more who wanted to desert and he would lead the Marines to them. A patrol under the Division Intel officer, Frank Goettage, went out to collect these prisoners. It was a trap and the patrol was ambushed. Out of 33 men only three escaped alive.From that time onward it was almost impossible for Marime intel officers to get live prisoners, even when (very rarely) the Japanese were willing to surrender. Eventually they persuaded the Marines to capture Japanese. Also throughout the war Marines did to Japanese bodies what the guy in Fallujah did to the Arab he thought was “playing dead”, because if they didn’t they had found that Japanese “corpses” would come to life and shoot at them as they moved on. And the Marines held a grudge over the Goettage Patrol up to the end of the war, indeed even beyond the end.
As to “adopting the methods of our enemies”, does anybody suppose that if we wished to do that, i.e. kill as many innocent people as possible in order to terrorize the others, we could not kill so many as to make Osama’s and Zarqawi’s efforts look insignificant? We have gone to great efforts not to do that, and the accusations of torture are simply the propaganda of our enemies. Anybody from Gitmo come back with his fingernails pulled off or his kidneys mashed to a pulp from beatings? No, the guys released from there have gained weight and are in better health than ever before in their lives. They are trained to make such accusations, and there are plenty of people ill-disposed to America who are more than willing to believe any vicious accusation against the USA. It’s like the biological warfare lie against us in Korea, orchestrated by our enemies.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2005 11 29 at 09:04 PM • permalinkHaving experienced being ‘bothered’ by individuals for over 2 decades (phone calls, mail tamperings, bizarre encounters w/ strangers, severed animal paws, break ins, etc….), I can tell you it can really wear you down. You get to where you jump at your own shadow, mistake the commonest pleasantry for innuendo, every look/stare as a threat or warning….
See, this is what I mean. I wouldn’t consider this “torture” if applied to terrorist suspects with information. Torture is bad; effective unpleasantness is A-OK.
Michael Lonie
Hadnt even thought of that. But an excellent example of the type of behviour which could become commonplace if the lefty nutjobs get their way.
Tried to write a bit about the detention centres once but get a bit too grumpy for my own good when I do it.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 11 30 at 02:22 AM • permalinkKae,
Guess it depends on what you define “piece of mind” and “crazy things” as….I did not say abusive or threatening things to the PR assistant that I spoke with. That would be, well, crazy.
I am surprised that no one asked about the West Virginia man killed. The infra red detectors picked up approximately 100 plants. This was rural, mountainous country and the coal mines (only source of jobs) had recently shut down. This poor cracker went in the house, got his shot gun, went out, sat in his rocker, on his porch, placed shot gun across his lap, and commenced to rock. Four hours later, he reached up to scratch his nose and they shot him..
This is, was, America. I do not advocate smoking pot, but there are many other uses for the hemp plant. This poor cracker was simply trying to survive.
BTW, as a widow w/ a small child, then recently wiped out by a trust fund baby I had the misfortune of becoming involved with after my husband’s death, in the process of rebuilding my pathetic life. Add to that, my family was well-known (both my husband and father were decorated combat veterans).
I also attended school w/ a relative of Bill’s. There is no way that I could have been perceived as any kind of threat, other than the power I have to convey my sentiment and belief to others as they head to the polls, which I did vehemently.
If you think it is “crazy” to make one’s beliefs known in this country, then you are missing the point of our most basic of celebrated rights, “freedom of speech”. I did not indulge in threats, rants or profanity. It was common knowledge that Bill smoked pot back in the day. I don’t believe that an effective leader can play both sides of the fence, save if they are utterly immoral.
The point of this disclosure is to show you how ineffectively our intelligence agencies are/were being used.
On another note, the trust fund baby’s family was associated w/ the Bush family. When I put a stop to this abusive man’s contact with my son and me, I was threatened that he would cost me my son, money, and reputation and that he had the means to do it. He did in fact try it. Most folk don’t take to kindly to people that take advantage of, or abuse, widows and orphans.
This personal disclosure is to point out that abuses of our system take place everyday, here, in our own country. If good people are willing to look the other way so that a piece of human waste can get over on someone(a citizen)suffering so much adversity, do you really think that they will pay any more attention to something much further away and subject to so many permutations of national outrage?
By all that I hold dear, yes, if interrogating these prisoners keeps our military personnel and us safe, keep it up. If we cross that line and play w/ public relations and perceptions, we will all pay the price farther down the road. There are too many foreigners living here in the country that bear witness to the type of stuff that I relayed here… that is, it is like anywhere else, you can get away w/ pretty much anything if you have the power and money. They relay that to their folks at home.
duh, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Bill Clinton isn’t president anymore. I’m sorry you had so many personal problems with an abusive wacko, but I don’t see what that, or your tearful tale about the pore (sic) mountain man who “reached up to scratch his nose” and got shot (uh huh, I guess I have to take your word for it since you don’t link to a story) and was only growing “hemp” for innocent uses like making sandals to sell to hippies (shyeah, right) has to do with freedom of speech. Nor do I see what your personal trials and tribulations, or stories about “innocent” people getting shot by Evil Gummint Men have to do with the issue of the proper way to extract information from babykilling terrorists we capture during war in another country. Frankly, I think that the more terrorists we beat the crap out of, the more ordinary, non-babykilling people grow up to have free speech.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 30 at 01:18 PM • permalinkIf you think it is “crazy” to make one’s beliefs known in this country, then you are missing the point of our most basic of celebrated rights, “freedom of speech”.
There’s excercising your freedom of speech, then there’s spouting off like a nutcase. Learning to distinguish is one of the most important parts of citizenship.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2005 11 30 at 01:50 PM • permalinkduh
Your “trust fund baby” had some kind of connection to the Bush family? Your tinfoil hat is showing. You are actually ranting, but in a kind of wearily reasonable way so you don’t come off crazy (not working, btw). Looking at what you wrote, I can’t help but think that for all your attempts at seeming to be so calm and restrained in your extended monologue, you ultimately sound utterly wack.
I am not denying your encounter with some junior grade special services types, that may be true, but I have heard other people say this kind of stuff over the years only to - down the road - confess it was all just a story, or they heard it from another person and just transposed it to themselves to make a point (very leftwing jouno, so NYT), or they were no longer sure it happened, etc. I think it is an attention-getting device. OK, you got your attention, so now, what are you saying? After giving us your autobiography, what’s your point? I confess, I’m lost here.
This was predicted (as what wasn’t?) in “Quick Slime Girl” & “Dare Plastic Turkey” by Plastic Türkey Cult.
Alllll our slimes have come.
Heeeere but now they’re gone.
Moonbats all wear plastic turkeys—so do the greens, the reds and the press,
We can be like they are, come on baby, don’t spurn the turkey, baby take it in hand,
Wear plastic turkey, we’ll be able to fly, dig plastic turkey, beats oyster and claaaam…Clinton counted on, and got, the left vote and a lot of that included the hippie, pot-smoking vote.
Yes, if I choose to call my President, congressman, or any other politico and say that I believe killing some out of work miner growing pot for all those yuppies and hippies to smoke is wrong and that I expect them to address this issue publicly, then that is using my freedom of speech. If you feel that is crazy, that is your opinion and we all know about opinions. Difference is I wouldn’t question your right to express a contrary view, though I might think you are a hypocritical, narrow-minded bigot.
ekw, I assure that this is true. The yacht in Catalina was named the Silverado and it was being moved around to prevent it from being caught up in the assets seizures following the Silverado Savings and Loan debacle. Did I mention the trust fund baby inherited many shares of Texaco, a LA bank, national real estate holdings?
As for my tin-foil hat, it is put up with my hard hat, cowboy hat, and clown wig. The story I recounted is true, as for a link, sorry, I have moved so often and my personal belongings have been scattered to the winds ( library, computers, personal effects, etc..). I will try to locate the story for you. I even spoke w/ the head of the W Virginia state police and lt. gov. about this. It is common knowledge that tons of it come up the river here and over the interstates.
You have every right to disbelieve my recounting of an event in my life. YOu may even attempt to wittily insult me, but surely you know this does not make it untrue.
Calm and restrained, surely you jest. I am full of anger over having my rights violated by some simpering scumbag whose family got rich pilfering the country while my ancestors were defending it. Weak? I think you assume to much, but that is your right. I don’t assume that you will believe me or not, I am simply rendering my account of events I experienced. If you got lost, I am sorry was unintentional and I made no attempt to lead you anywhere. I didn’t realize that you needed help drawing conclusions. Let me see if I can help:
Take the log out of your own eye before you attempt to take the mote out of your neighbor’s eye.
I came from a relatively priveleged background and assumed that I had the rights we learned about in school. I was naive. I am only the tip of the iceberg, what I described happens to thousands of people daily in this country. While they are so busy trying to extricate themselves from under crap dumped on them by sociopaths w/ geat out of jail free cards, they cannot enjoy or ponder life’s more complicated pleasures or rights. They cannot participate in being a good “citizen”. It takes time to digest all the information necessary to make your own decision.
I considered asking for my FBI file, but every time I get close, they up the ante. Now you must provide fingerprints, 20 bucks (last I checked), and then, given things like the Patriot Act, they might choose to not release it. The only person that might mistake me for a terrorist would be that trust fund baby that I mentioned, he is scared of me now- his two ex’s left the state in the middle of the night after swearing everyone to secrecy to escape him, I didn’t marry him, nor slink away. I am still here.
If you know Tim well enough, ask him to share my story w/ you. It is fairly well-documented.
Seek attention, perhaps, but isn’t that why you post your attempts at wit here? Seek attention for a large problem that exists right below everyone’s noses here at home, you are damn right.
BTW, please remember the guy that was shot wasn’t a Koresh or Jim Jones type, just a redneck trying to survive up in the mountains by growing a crop there was more than a large demand for, JUST LIKE A GOOD CAPITALIST. AMERICA, we must take it back.
Actually, I am kind of flattered that you’d insinuate that I was, well, kind o’ flaky. If you are sane, I assure I’d rather not be.
ekw,
No luck yet on article, but still looking. Thought this might keep you busy though.
Appalachian High…..Off for a bit, must remove my high heel sneakers…
Your secretary? Wow. You and Robt. Fisk. Maybe you really should consider hiring one. In the time it took me to write this, you posted three more times.
...what I described happens to thousands of people daily in this country.
OK, this is what I’m talking about. This and the paragraph that follows is black helicopter stuff, duh. Sorry, that is what it sounds like.
Now, I don’t want to set off further foot-long postings followed by two- and three-line footnotes here, duh, so I’ll just leave it at that. Well, one final thought
If you are sane, I assure I’d rather not be.
I’m not sure it’s a choice.
Well, ekw, my father was assigned to work w/ OSS. Later worked w/ FBI. I also have a couple of friends that spent 20+ yrs in fed. law enforcement….I assure this stuff goes on every day. When I doubted myself, and I did, I checked w/ them and some of my father’s friends still “in the business”. I was recruited myself, employment questions were something like have you every smoked, have your friend ever smoked, list all your friends, acquaintances, family, etc… I decided that any job I had to lie to get, or tell the truth and be a risk to friends wasn’t worth taking.
BTW, Air America (the real deal, not the radio show, never really existed, did it?).
As for your not being sure it is a choice, I agree. I envy you your naivete.
Are you looking for work; you seem to be able to use a spell and grammar checker? I can write my posts and send them to you for editing.
Gee, ekw, since I try to do several things at once ( I am scanning old photos while I check news, look for old post, prepare site for building,exercise dogs ), I kind of am on the run when I check in here.
Please share an anecdote with us, and please, strive for the interesting and factual rather than the humorous. If I feel the need to scrutinize it for accuracy, I will ask for the evidence or proof later.
You question my sanity and veracity, I question your wit.
Looking for replies to search for article on W Va tragedy in mid-90’s, periodically checking unopened emails, and look what I found:
Dear Dxxxxxx,“The public trust must be earned, and speaking clearly, candidly and forcefully now about the mess in Iraq is the place to begin.”
I wrote those words in August in The Washington Post to call on Democratic Party leaders to step forward on Iraq. My years in the Senate and as co-chair of the Bipartisan Commission on National Security had convinced me that, unless Democrats provided real leadership, Americans would never receive the honest and open debate about Iraq that our country deserves.
When I first read John Kerry’s October speech on Iraq, I knew it was a turning point. He spoke with the same unwavering voice - truth speaking to power - as he did when I first heard him speak out about the war in Vietnam in 1971. John Kerry got it right last month when he said, “Asking tough questions isn’t pessimism; it’s patriotism” and then answered those questions by offering a detailed plan to get the troops home.
In recent weeks, Democratic leaders across America - Jack Murtha, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Pat Leahy, John Edwards and Barack Obama - have questioned the Bush Administration’s unfocused “stay as long as it takes” approach. Democrats have joined together to offer substantive alternatives to get it right in Iraq and made it clear that our conscience and conviction lie with taking care of our troops.
The grassroots community at johnkerry.com has played a critical role making sure these ideas are heard and that brave Democrats are protected against the inevitable Republican attacks.
When John Kerry called for the withdrawal of 20,000 troops over the holidays, and the majority of remaining combat troops by the end of 2006, linking bringing troops home to clear benchmarks, you added energy and passion to that initiative.
When John Kerry called for accelerated training of Iraqi troops, greater international involvement, and improved reconstruction efforts, you amplified his voice.
Now, because of your efforts and those of all these Democratic leaders, make no mistake: the wheel has turned in the national debate over the war in Iraq. The American people have responded to the tough questions we’ve been asking because they had the same ones. The result is that the Bush Administration is being forced to engage in something they’ve gone to great lengths to avoid: an open debate about the war in Iraq.
We should all be proud of what has been accomplished, but never complacent. Asking questions and debating the issues alone will not rectify this disastrous situation exacerbated by the endless stream of Administration failures. You have to demand answers. You have to demand results for our troops.
That means making sure the intensity of your grassroots effort doesn’t fade over the holidays. Our troops don’t have the luxury of taking it easy over the holidays, and neither do we.
We have to continue to speak out - on talk radio, in letters to the editor, and to our neighbors - to demand an Administration strategy to get our troops home.
This fight isn’t just about the future of the Democratic Party - whether we’re going to have a strong Democratic Party that speaks its mind or settles for being a second Republican Party. This fight, at its core, is about restoring the strength and honor of America.
America needs your continued leadership, courage and passion on the grassroots level. I can’t thank you enough for everything you have already done, and I am confident about what the johnkerry.com community is sure to accomplish in the future.
Sincerely,
Gary Hart
Paid for by Friends of John Kerry, Inc.
We apologize if you received this message in error. Click here to unsubscribe from our mailing list.Friends of John Kerry, Inc., 511 C St. NE, Washington DC, 20002, U.S.A.
duh - reading thru the posts…
# 75 and I can’t afford to give away pieces of my mind.
This was a joke for Andrea. Actually, I was replying to Andrea’s comment about the situation today.
And it doesn’t depend on what you define as “crazy things”, it’s what the person at the other end of the phone defines as “crazy things”. (And I am in Australia which is a little different to the USA, in case you missed that.) Did I say you said abusive things? No. I said I wouldn’t.Ah, to hell with it.
#81, what Andrea said.
#82, and what Rob said.TFK,
Oh, I am so deeply offended and hurt.Dwarfs do that to me. What do you call them there, something cute, no doubt. Midgets frighten me, too.
That was an albatross? I was aiming for your pecker, ‘course you’d understand the mistake. Better check your shorts. As for relevance, huh? Compared to what, your post?
Robot troll, how droll. Rhyming, you know.. I didn’t know I’d set off a dimwitted dork.
Pardon me, I didn’t mistake you for a compassionate conservative, just someone who might give a fuck about what really goes on here. Guess you really don’t care where your tax dollars go.
PS-that trust fund baby was/is a friend of Ward Reilly’s.
Okay, that’s it. Duh, you are skating on thin ice above Troll Pond. Shut up, or get banned. Then you’ll have no one but your relatives in the FBI (and the whole rest of the internet) to cry to.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 30 at 07:39 PM • permalinkYou question my sanity and veracity, I question your wit.
That wasn’t addressed to me, but I’ll respond anyway: I’m starting to question your near-pathological need to make every single topic about you and your life, duh. Going back the couple of months you’ve been posting here, nearly every post you’ve ever made talked about how horrible everything in your life has been, how many important people you know (who apparently screwed you anyway), etc. etc. blah-blah. I’ve long wondered if everything was quite alright with you mentally, and on this thread, you’ve finally given the answer by going into full-on loony mode. Give it a rest, already; nobody cares anymore.
PW,
OOh, ouch. Diagnosing people w/o a medical license are “we”. Am sure the others will be happy you spoke up for them since they could think of no reply. I must have hurt somebody’s feelings. Perhaps you should look in the mirror. Touchy, aren’t you?I never said that I knew the Bushes, or that the trust fund baby was important, au contraire, his family’s money did that, and people willing to suspend disgust and syncophantically acquiesce to his whim to get near their perception of his family’s power. If you feel that my description of my father, or friends, makes them important, that is your perception.
My mental state, well, tell it to the marines, you know the ones that have been in combat and have to come back and listen to the tripe that dribbles out of the mouths of arm chair warriors. Thanks for wondering, I didn’t think you cared. With people like you deciding on my competency, I am sure the world is a much safe place…like all that false intell….makes you wonder what sort they do hire, huh? Lie, rat out you friends, etc….
Haven’t been a staunch conservative, you think about me way too much, my point in this is that it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And it does, the women here deal with it every day. Some men, too, but not so many. Now, run tell your mommy, I mean Andrea.
Andrea, please feel free to do what you do best, the same thing you accuse the left of, squelching opposing thought. If you really are a woman, I am surprised that you never squelched some of the really sexist rants that pass for wit here.
PS-tell Tim to forget the WR stuff, already passed it on to someone that does care to go after such scum, it is people like him that help get Sheehan air time.
Bye, duh. At last you fit your nickname.
By the way, I have never “accuse[d] the left of… squelching opposing thought.” Anyone who is wimpy enough to let themselves be censored by the feebs characterizing the leftover left in the nations of the West deserves to be squelched, and I refuse to waste my time crying about them.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 11 30 at 08:06 PM • permalinkWell, that was an experience. I mean, I don’t know if I’ve been that close to a true crazy since I last spong-bathed my Uncle Bob.
Insane people never have a sense of humor about themselves, only grandiose visions of either persecution and/or superiority, often manifested as secret knowledge about dark forces. anon.
OK, Ok, I made it up. Gaawwwd. Picky, picky, picky. I’m going to Webdiary where they would swallow that hook line and sinker, as long as I was talking about BushHitler McChimp, anyway.
Can we assume “duh” is one of those bores who calls up radio talk shows and drones on and on and on, never letting the host getting a word in, until he’s cut off in mid-sentence?
=^0
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 12 01 at 12:35 PM • permalinkSaint Cindy
My Gold Star Families are especially dear to me. I
Excuse me? Isn’t that the organization that SUED HER ASS for appropriating their trademark?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 01 at 03:51 PM • permalink20
Nylon is made from oil!!
Uh? Maybe it is now, but didn’t it originally get made from coal?
24
Alworth is now pleading fake-but-accurate. You see, it’s a metaphorical plastic turkey. Nothing changes.
Allll rightie, then! Alworth is only metaphorically a lying pile of shit.
47
they’re tomorrow’s brontosauri, just waiting for the comet
A monument to the cruelty of nature: brontosauri got not only extincted, but retroactively written out of the taxonomy, and replaced by something called “apatasauri” which looked exactly like brontos, only with different heads. I think. Roy Chapman Andrews could explain it better, if only he were still alive.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 01 at 04:16 PM • permalink82 Rob
There’s excercising your freedom of speech, then there’s spouting off like a nutcase. Learning to distinguish is one of the most important parts of citizenship.
Well, I read Duh’s story, and it looks to me like she’s doing the former, not the latter. And frankly I think Cruella is somewhat out of line laying the big smackdown thing on her, too. So there.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 01 at 04:31 PM • permalinkOf course, after reading comments #s 83 thru 101, I have to admit, y’all kinda DO have a point…
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 01 at 04:40 PM • permalinkWell, Stoop Davy, I’m not sure I care about the opinion of a man (that’s you) who doesn’t know that coal and oil are related substances.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 01 at 08:12 PM • permalinkThe “duh” creature was really just a crazed troll completely out of his/her depth. She filled these long posts with the most idiotic paranoia and self-agrandizing b.s. She attempted verbal parrying for awhile, but it was tiresome, not challenging. And there was always the gleam of incipient madness in her wild postings. I ain’t gonna miss her.
I do SO know that coal and oil are related substances. [pokes out tongue in an insouciant manner] Them being related ain’t the same as them being the same stuff as each other, which they ain’t, so there!
Also Duh going off the rails and posting lengthy rambling diatribes ain’t really the same as her being a troll. She was posting here for months and months and she never USED to be a troll. So I’m meekly yet humbly petitioning that she should get un-banned, ma’am.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 02 at 12:10 AM • permalinkBut, Stoop D
Did you really read her stuff? She was going off like a lunatic, posting these foot-long posts then filling in with little footnotes and flaming anyone who had the temerity to challenge her on anything. Plus she would just ramble, virtually incoherently, about the secret plot to get her, et al. I think she had become a troll. It was black helicopter trollism. There. I said it and I stand by it. Keep her banned.
Well, I don’t think she was trolling; that requires a certain degree of self-awareness. I was more reminded of that crazy old woman in the street muttering away at passers-by…
Well, more time for her to concentrate on her Ward Reilly crusade, now that she’s freed from the burden of posting here.
And I disagree with you, Stoop…maybe I’m too obsessive-compulsive in reading the comments here, but IMO this breakdown of hers was a loooong time coming. The signs were there since pretty much day one.
Did you really read her stuff?
Well… not the ones that ran off the bottom of the screen, no. I kinda skip over those, whoever’s posting them.
But those were just in the past coupla days. She used to do much shorter stuff. I haven’t exactly done a comprehensive overview and text analysis of it.
I dunno… It looked to me like she had an anecdote about U.S. government over-reach / intimidation from several administrations ago, got slapped for it VERY harshly, then got all bristly defensive about it, then started throwing the furniture around. It looked to me, that is to say, more like a spontaneous tantrum than the sort of devious weasling one associates with the term “troll.”Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 12 02 at 11:05 AM • permalinkShe is continuing to email people about her personal problems (I am getting bounced emails from her attempts to contact people). I told her to stop monopolizing this site with her obsessions, and I got insulted much worse than anyone else here has insulted her. (If you think I was particularly insulting to her you haven’t been paying attention.) I will not bother quoting the substance of her emails here, suffice it to say that it was more details of her trials and tribulations concerning some person she had a run-in with.
At the end of it all the thing is this: I am not running a website for troubled people to get therapy for their neuroses and legal problems. I am running a blog for Tim Blair. Being banned from one website does not take away the ability of anyone to say whatever they want, whenever they want, so any argument about free speech being “crushed” because of such a thing is utterly ridiculous and the notion will be mocked whenever it appears in a comment thread on this site. If you are so concerned about this woman (or man, or whatever), email her and offer to counsel her, set up her own website where she can rant, etc. It’s a big internet, with plenty of space for her to exercise her free speech.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 02 at 07:59 PM • permalinkPW and Stoop D,
I agree, she probably isn’t trolling, but she is crazying. In the Ward Reilly thread she pretty much put a stop to the entire discussion with a series of completely bolded entries. Tells us, in a moment of pure non sequiturism, her full name. Apropos of zip.
I figure she is probably sick, as Andrea has pointed out (God only knows what she said to Andrea), and she was using Tim’s site as a spill zone. Like this was the Maury Show. Crazy lady finally loses control, starts flinging doo-doo like monkey inna zoo.
Get help, duh.
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Oh, here we go again, another (typically) humourless right-wing blogger quibbling over minor details, such as the truth, and ignoring the power and majesty of a great myth!