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TRY HIM AS A CHILD

The latest free Dave campaign relies on a photograph taken 22 years ago:

A national television advertising campaign showing a close-up of David Hicks as a freckled, nine-year-old schoolboy will try to humanise the Guantanamo Bay detainee after the weekend announcement of serious charges against him.

Nowhere in the Age’s article is Mohammed Dawood’s current age (31) mentioned; nor are the Taliban or al-Qaeda, Mo’s choice of pals as an adult. His father-in-law and wife also don’t rate a mention, but we do get the whole ad script from Terry Hicks:

This is my son, David. He’s been missing for five years – held in Guantanamo Bay. Without trial.

Well, he hasn’t exactly been missing, then, has he?

He was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, is an Australian citizen.

To our everlasting shame.

I love my son, but I’ve always said if he’s done wrong he should have to face the consequences.

He’s been facing the consequences for five years. Got your wish.

I only ever wanted David to be given a fair trial, but I’m sure that the Guantanamo trials have been created by politicians to do one thing: guarantee convictions.

Maybe they’ll cut his head off. No, wait; that would happen under a Taliban court.

Please, let’s bring David home. Thank you – I’m Terry Hicks.

Yeah, let’s bring him home. Should be good for a laugh. Crikey reader Sue Bradford has additional concerns for Gitmo Mo:

Given recent comments on the damage that can be done due to a lack of Vitamin D, has anyone considered how this might be affecting David Hicks if, as has been reported, he’s only seen sunlight a very few times in the last five years? Most people need about 1000IU of Vitamin D a day which comes quickly with sunshine but is much harder to a achieve via diet. For example a glass of milk or orange juice contains about 100IU vitamin D. Can Mr Downer assure us that David has been getting extra doses of multivitamins for all these years?

(Via Paul W. and ilibcc)

Posted by Tim B. on 02/05/2007 at 08:31 AM
  1. Just sickening.

    Posted by Srekwah on 2007 02 05 at 08:43 AM • permalink

  2. Bring him home after the trial. Make sure the body bag is flown economy.  No sense wasting money on this piece of shit.

    Posted by surfmaster on 2007 02 05 at 08:44 AM • permalink

  3. What next?  Photos of Ivan Milat as an 8 year old, minus moustache (but possible cradling a cap gun?)

    “Ivan’s a good boy, just misunderstood.”

    Posted by mr creosote on 2007 02 05 at 08:47 AM • permalink

  4. Can Mr Downer assure us that David has been getting extra doses of multivitamins for all these years?

    Another disturbing side effect of lack of sunlight would almost certainly be a lack of sheen and vibrancy in Davids hair.  Can Mr Downer assure us that David is getting regular supplies of Pantene Pro-V Time Renewal shampoo and/or Frizz defense in order to combat dry a lacklustre finish or frizziness?

    Posted by bondo on 2007 02 05 at 08:55 AM • permalink

  5. Very touching. Here’s another cute baby picture.

    Posted by paco on 2007 02 05 at 08:57 AM • permalink

  6. How about some vitiamin Lead for poor young David, delivered through the epidermis?

    Posted by Son of a Pig and a Monkey on 2007 02 05 at 08:58 AM • permalink

  7. Bolt nailed it pretty well today, had the lovely infant picture of Adolph as a toddler on his post about Mo Daywoo.
    Why not a pic of Idi Amin crying cos he scun his knee at the age of 3?
    Pol pot at the age of 5 cradling a kitten?
    Stalin romping through a field of flowers to “the sound of music” soundtrack?
    David Koresh and Charlie manson playing marbles?

    Get up can get fucked as far as Im concerned.

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 02 05 at 09:01 AM • permalink

  8. He needs a rich source of k.e.  I prescribe one shot of 7.62mm lead.

    Posted by Rob Read on 2007 02 05 at 09:02 AM • permalink

  9. I’m surprised they didn’t add a halo with photoshop.

    Posted by Daniel San on 2007 02 05 at 09:12 AM • permalink

  10. Is his old man really serious about this? Only last week, he had this to say:

    Hicks’ father, Terry Hicks, from the South Australia state capital Adelaide, said he expected appeals against the legality of the new military commission system will be lodged in U.S. civilian courts which could delay the trials for two years.

    “I would expect the defense to appeal,” Terry Hicks said.

    So he’s happy to delay justice for at least two years? The advertisement is nothing but crocodile tears.

    Posted by Nic on 2007 02 05 at 09:18 AM • permalink

  11. I saw that Sue Bradford comment on Crikey as well.

    Surely she was taking the piss.

    Surely.

    Posted by Dan Lewis on 2007 02 05 at 09:18 AM • permalink

  12. He was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, is an Australian citizen

    Except when he tried to be ditch all this Australianness and claim British citizenship in yet another of his slimy tricks to get out of being tried at all.

    Can’t help t’inkin’ that this creep has a hell of a lot to hide.

    Posted by SandiM on 2007 02 05 at 09:26 AM • permalink

  13. They should hold him at Gitmo until he’s 21.

    Posted by rhhardin on 2007 02 05 at 09:26 AM • permalink

  14. Could it possibly be that Daddy Hicks has sensed the majority feeling in Australia?
    Maybe that is why he is hoping for more appeals, and more delays so he can keep his boy safe from harm in Gitmo for a couple more years.
    There must be some reason why Dawood doesn’t want to talk to Daddy these days.

    Posted by Skeeter on 2007 02 05 at 09:33 AM • permalink

  15. To Sue Bradford; who cares. Although he should have been given a shot of Vitamin L(ead), oh. . . about 7.62mm would have been about right. Then we would not have to hear anymore about this useless spineless Jew hating pathetic slug, and the leftoid parasites who keep spruiking for him and that other waste of space ‘Jihad’ Jerkoff.

    Posted by BJM on 2007 02 05 at 09:34 AM • permalink

  16. Yes, Hicks is an idiot. Potentially a very dangerous idiot at one point in time. Irrespective of who he is and what he is alleged to have done, the right to a fair and prompt trial still applies. Surely most conservatives can concede that point.

    Posted by fightdemback on 2007 02 05 at 09:35 AM • permalink

  17. And Father Hicks put his foot in it didn’t he?

    ...said he expected appeals against the legality of the new military commission system will be lodged in U.S. civilian courts which could delay the trials for two years.

    Bet he didn’t mean to remind us that Hicks himself has delayed his trial for years while his supporters blame everybody else but him for his “five years without trial”.

    I say again: this creep has a hell of a lot to hide.

    Posted by SandiM on 2007 02 05 at 09:35 AM • permalink

  18. “Free Dave”.
    Why does that remind me of “Free Willy”?

    Posted by Skeeter on 2007 02 05 at 09:45 AM • permalink

  19. I’m sure we can arrange something—if Australia has the death penalty.

    Posted by SoberHT on 2007 02 05 at 09:54 AM • permalink

  20. #16 And that’s what he’s going to get.

    He’ll be tried under fairly normal rules for a military tribunal.

    He’s lucky that he’s only pissed off the most benevolent hegemon in world history.  At any other point in the history of mankind, he would have been dead five years ago.

    Posted by murph on 2007 02 05 at 10:02 AM • permalink

  21. Free David Hicks!!  (When he’s 75 years old and too senile to do any more harm)

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2007 02 05 at 10:04 AM • permalink

  22. It’s quick and nasty but I made this short vid on YouTube in response to GetUp’s stupidity. Can you guess ‘em before the adult shot comes up?

    Link to ‘David Hicks - Will You Be My Teddy Bear?’

    Posted by Villeurbanne on 2007 02 05 at 10:04 AM • permalink

  23. Within my lifetime the manner of treatment for treacherous collaborators like Hicks has gone from execution by firing squad to this nauseating situation.

    Huge support comes from all angles of leftist groupthink including, but not limited to, unions, media and academia. The lies flow easily and blame is apportioned, without question, between Bush and Howard with the scumbag accorded hero status.

    Disgusting!

    Posted by LaoHuLi on 2007 02 05 at 10:13 AM • permalink

  24. Well, excuse me!

    I’ve been sitting in a fucking office in fucking Saigon fpr the past 8 fucking weeks.  80 fucking hour per fucking weeks.

    I have not seen the fucking sun in the last 8 fucking weeks.

    And a fucking war criminal gets more fucking sympathy than I do.


    PS: excuse the fucking language

    Posted by Jack from Montreal on 2007 02 05 at 10:20 AM • permalink

  25. Yes, Hicks is an idiot. Potentially a very dangerous idiot at one point in time. Irrespective of who he is and what he is alleged to have done, the right to a fair and prompt trial still applies. Surely most conservatives can concede that point.

    He is being treated more than fairly.  Under the Geneva Convention, the United States can hold him until hostilities are over, without trial.  Which, with the Global War On Terrorism, could be a long time.

    Since he is slated for a military tribunal, Hicks is getting far more than he deserves.

    I’ll concede that much.

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 02 05 at 10:38 AM • permalink

  26. (gilligans island theme)

    Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
    a tale about Dawood Hicks.
    A fighter for the taliban,
    Before his ass got nicked.
    Dawood was a muzzie fightin’ man,
    A traitor prick for sure.
    He ended up in Gitmo bay,
    for a five year tour,a five year tour………
    The Leftards started crying foul,
    When charges ‘gainst were laid.
    Get up paid for adverts of Hicks the lad so
    the public could be swayed; the public could be swayed.
    The Left stood ground on behalf of this unwanted revert shite,
    With Phatty Phil, the Kruddster too,
    the Democrats, and Bob Brown,
    the Fairfax rags, the Protestors and A-B-C,
    For this silly Hicks’ clown.

    Posted by eeniemeenie on 2007 02 05 at 10:40 AM • permalink

  27. #24 Jack from Montreal

    Now dear if I could get a glass of milk to you with a big multivitamin tablet right now I would

    And yes all this sympathy for an absolute deadsh*t, traitor, terrorist etc is making me very very angry

    I read a post on Bolta’s blog where one idiot says yes he was caught in Afghanistan but he wasn’t going to shoot at anyone

    So why was he there eh? For a holiday at a nice little trendy B&B in Kabul perhaps?

    Posted by aussiemagpie on 2007 02 05 at 10:43 AM • permalink

  28. #22 excellent work kisdm001

    Posted by eeniemeenie on 2007 02 05 at 10:44 AM • permalink

  29. Jack from Montreal—watch the language.  Who do you think you are, Tim Lambert?

    Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 02 05 at 11:02 AM • permalink

  30. #22 —EXCELLENT!

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 02 05 at 11:06 AM • permalink

  31. Unlike the people in those OTHER Cuban prisons who get regular excercise outside where they can gather their own oranges from the trees planted right in the excercise yard.  The lack of perspective is just beyond almost anything I can imagine.

    Posted by yojimbo on 2007 02 05 at 11:17 AM • permalink

  32. I forgot to add their ability to gather their own milk and cheese from the cows grazing just beneath those orange trees.

    Posted by yojimbo on 2007 02 05 at 11:19 AM • permalink

  33. Look on the bright side-no skin cancer.

    Posted by yojimbo on 2007 02 05 at 11:21 AM • permalink

  34. #24 Jack from Montreal:

    So, basically, what you’re saying is “F*ck the f*cking f*cker?”  :-D

    Personally, I think that they should bring David Hicks back to Australia. Jokes aside, he’s our traitor and he should be tried here and made an example of here. Regardless of whether the Americans gaol him first or not, after they’re done with him, bring him back here and throw the book at him. Try him, then lock him up for life. How anyone on the left has any sympathy for this worthless bastard is beyond me. There are plenty of deserving people they could turn their sympathy towards.

    Posted by Mr Snuffalupagus on 2007 02 05 at 11:23 AM • permalink

  35. As I said on another thread, but it bears repeating, he’s a lot better off than most of the other people in Cuba.

    Posted by ErnieG on 2007 02 05 at 11:46 AM • permalink

  36. I have as much sympathy for him as I have for John Amery. No amount of infantilisation will change that, and I wager the same for many of my fellow citizens. (Interesting that the tactic of infantilisation is often used by those of a particular bent, whether it be to excuse the deeds of dubious individuals or to devalue the choices and sacrifices of those who serve)

    On the issue of the wait for trial, I am not particularly pertubed. This is not a circumstance of a civilian criminal charge such as swiping a car or even murder. It is a circumstance of war, and as such different matters may take priority. As a side issue, a lot of the delays that are so heartmeltingly mourned can be put down to the attempts to avoid trial.

    Shift the goalposts enough, and the illusion can be created that this is not a war; that treason is such an anachronistic concept; and that the presumption of innocence extends to outright vindication and exoneration.

    Regrettably, the death penalty is not an option if Mr. Dawood were to be tried in Australia; I recall that it has been ruled out for Gitmo as well in his circumstance. No matter. Let him be tried, convicted and spend his allotted days in a supermax.

    Posted by Simon Darkshade on 2007 02 05 at 11:54 AM • permalink

  37. #26

    Thanks, eenie meenie—almost laughed myself to death by choking on a cheese sandwich, there.

    Posted by SoberHT on 2007 02 05 at 12:09 PM • permalink

  38. How dare you eat that cheese sandwich when we don’t know if the brave Mr. Hicks has had his multivitamin yet!

    And no tilt of the head is going to get you out of this one either!

    Posted by yojimbo on 2007 02 05 at 12:18 PM • permalink

  39. #22, perfect.

    I’m sure The Age would love to see all their heroes as kids.

    Posted by Ash_ on 2007 02 05 at 01:08 PM • permalink

  40. #5 Aahhh, what a cute little vegetarian.

    Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 02 05 at 01:40 PM • permalink

  41. In Singapore, Jemaah Islamiah members detained indefinitely are being engage by Islamic religious teacher on where they had misinterpreted Islamic concepts to justify terrorism. One ustaz recalls how a detainee wept when the realisation hit him how he had misunderstood Islamic teachings and was led to believe they endorsed violence against non-Muslims. The young man is now struggling to re-learn that Islam emphasises values like compassion and mercy - towards all. Several detainees, however, remain certain they are in the right, the teachers say. “They remain obstinate, and continue to say that their understanding of Islam is correct,” says Ustaz Mohamad Hasbi Hassan, one of two Islamic religious leaders who head the program.

    However Dr Greg Fealy of the Australian National University is quoted as saying that while rehabilitation is ‘always worth trying’, one has to be realistic about what it can achieve. Experience elsewhere, he said, suggests that only a minority would be well disposed towards rehabilitation efforts: a majority remain convinced of their cause, though they may not necessarily want to be personally involved in future terrorist operations once released from jail. “It is possible that rehabilitation programs will be more successful in Singapore, where the ability to monitor and control radical activities is higher than in other South-east Asian countries,’ he adds. There have been some efforts at rehabilitation of JI detainees in Indonesia, but the results appear patchy, he said.

    Has David Hicks been turned away from the Dark Side? Is he rehabilitated?

    Posted by Geoffrey MG on 2007 02 05 at 04:03 PM • permalink

  42. Those quotes are from “From bomb makers to peace lovers?” By Zakir Hussain, The Straits Times, Singapore. February 3, 2007.

    Posted by Geoffrey MG on 2007 02 05 at 04:06 PM • permalink

  43. They must be really pissed that their big bucks advertising campaign started the weekend following the announcement of charges against him.

    I suspect the media hype surrounding Hicks will end up being their worst enemy once the details of the charges are publicised and any naive supporters amongst the masses realise Hicks isn’t the clean-cut Aussie boy his propagandist are portraying him as.

    Posted by tdw77 on 2007 02 05 at 04:19 PM • permalink

  44. Sue Bradford wonders about Mohammed Dawood’s vitamin D deficiency.
    Perhaps she should worry about the same medical condition for:
    - burqua wearing Muslim women
    - hundreds of thousands of prisoners in jails all over the globe incarcerated under the same conditions as Dawood
    - underground miners
    - computer geeks trapped in front of their screens all day

    Or, as suspected, she’s practicing typical “selective compassion” where Dawood is singled out as the poster boy of choice for a bit of Bush hating. Yeah. That’s it….

    Posted by Bonmot on 2007 02 05 at 05:23 PM • permalink

  45. Honestly, trial for what? Being part of an enemy army? He is that, and the war continues and his side continues to fight. He should be held for the duration or shot as a spy, if he was found out of uniform.

    Posted by moptop on 2007 02 05 at 06:35 PM • permalink

  46. Poor Dave, he is getting better medical care than an Aussie on Medicare gets.

    Posted by Harry Buttle on 2007 02 05 at 06:44 PM • permalink

  47. It has been scientifically proven (the debate is over people) that sleeping on unsuitable pillows can cause a host of disorders such as sleep apnoea, REM sleep interruption and dream disruption. This can lead to drowziness, tetchiness and irritabilty. Additionally, the powers of concentration are diminished.

    I demand that Mr Downer provide proof that Mr Hicks has been provided non allergenic posturepedic pillows in sufficent quantity. Also, a minimum of one guard must be provided on a full time basis to provide a ‘turn down’ and pillow fluffing service.

    If the government needs help fulfilling this basic human right then I can recommend the good people at Pillows And Covers On-line, for all your prisoner needs.

    Posted by Penguin on 2007 02 05 at 07:02 PM • permalink

  48. (#22) Dylan Kissane:

    *applause*

    Outstanding.

    Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 02 05 at 07:55 PM • permalink

  49. #16 fightdemback

    Yes, Hicks is an idiot. Potentially a very dangerous idiot at one point in time. Irrespective of who he is and what he is alleged to have done, the right to a fair and prompt trial still applies. Surely most conservatives can concede that point.

    Sigh. ‘David Hicks’ no longer exists, Mohammad Dawood does in his place.

    Mohammad Dawood freely and of hos own volition became a member of the Taliban, a group of theocratic fascist murderers.

    He was found bearing arms but in no army, bearing no sigil, uniform or identifying mark, and responsible to no chain of command.

    At best he is a theonazi bandit. At worst he is a traitor and unrecognised combatant.

    If a bandit, he should have been, and still should be, shot out of hand.

    As an unrecognised combatant international precedent, law and convention is crystal clear. He was required to have been shot out of hand.
    Check the Hague Conventions.

    MarkL
    Canberra

    Posted by MarkL on 2007 02 05 at 08:10 PM • permalink

  50. Dylan Kissane (#22)

    A standing ovation, is yours.

    Posted by El Cid on 2007 02 05 at 08:36 PM • permalink

  51. # 11 and others, Sue Bradford was not kidding, even though her hilarious vitamin-deprived-Hicks piece could have been penned for Viz magazine.

    She may however be a common or garden nutcase who writes long letters to Margo Kingston (scroll down).

    Posted by ilibcc on 2007 02 05 at 08:53 PM • permalink

  52. Dark side, Mohamamed Dawood takes over the place of David Hicks…

    All we need now is a death star and his son to go off to try to bring him back to the light.

    Posted by Matthew Lawrence on 2007 02 05 at 09:12 PM • permalink

  53. Has Sue Bradford made a similar demand for Corporal Gilad Shalit?  A but he’s not an Aussie, is he?  But then is Dawood still an Aussie citizen, who claimed British citizenship (unsuccessfully) and enlisted in the forces of enemies of Oz?

    If he’s an unlawful combatant he can be held for the duration of the war.  If he’s a criminal perhaps he should be extradited for trial where he committed his crimes, Afghanistan.  They would probably know the best way to treat one of the foreigners who helped keep the Talliban’s tyranny fastened down on the Afghans.

    Posted by Michael Lonie on 2007 02 05 at 09:43 PM • permalink

  54. Now who could be this very deep young teenager (on the right) snapped on a visit to Oxford in 1971?

    With his arm innocently around what looks to me suspiciously like a girl.

    Posted by geoff on 2007 02 05 at 09:55 PM • permalink

  55. Could it be the same young man at about the same age pictured here (circled) leaning on a   pink Chrysler Imperial?
    Ahh. The carefree innocence of youth. How could he be guilty of anything?

    Posted by geoff on 2007 02 05 at 10:05 PM • permalink

  56. Jeez, where’s our humanity?  First I hear Mohammad Dawood has been denied use of a hairbrush, now there are questions of possible vitamin denial.  So cruel is this, I’m sure he’d have preferred to be put against a wall and shot, as allowed by the Geneva Convention.

    Posted by Olrence on 2007 02 05 at 11:42 PM • permalink

  57. [url=“http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/12/1055220706614.html>In 2003 a 14-year-old girl</a>, an Australian citizen, was tried as an adult in Vietnam and jailed for drug trafficking.  She remained in custody for several months before being charged.  No reasonable person would suggest she committed this crime of her own volition.

    Where were these people then?

    For the last <a href=“http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Aussie-businessman-in-legal-row-in-China/2007/02/05/1170523986275.html”]six months[/url], an Australian citizen, charged with no crime, has been forbidden from leaving China.  He never will be charged because he’s involved in a civil, not criminal case with a state-owned company. 

    Where’s the campaign to bring back Miles Ellery?

    Posted by monaro on 2007 02 06 at 02:58 AM • permalink

  58. Bonmot (#44) suggests that Sue Bradford should be more concerned about vitamin D deficiency in burqua wearing Muslim women.

    An so comes this story from, where else, Bradford:

    Young children in Bradford are being given free vitamin D after research showed a rise in the number of cases of the bone disorder rickets in the city… ...Paediatricians found that deficiency rates were higher among children of south Asian families, particularly girls.

    Many Muslim women are at higher risk because Islamic dress codes prevent the skin absorbing ultra violet light at high enough levels.

    Anyway, I thought Hicksie and his mates were in ‘open cages.’  Get the story straight!

    Posted by monaro on 2007 02 06 at 03:19 AM • permalink

  59. Bonmot (#44) suggests that Sue Bradford should be more concerned about vitamin D deficiency in burqua wearing Muslim women.

    An so comes this story from, where else, Bradford:

    Young children in Bradford are being given free vitamin D after research showed a rise in the number of cases of the bone disorder rickets in the city… ...Paediatricians

    found that deficiency rates were higher among children of south Asian families, particularly girls.

    Many Muslim women are at higher risk because Islamic dress codes prevent the skin absorbing ultra violet light at high enough levels.

    Anyway, I thought Hicksie and his mates were in ‘open cages.’  Get the story straight!

    Posted by monaro on 2007 02 06 at 04:04 AM • permalink

  60. The pro David Hicks vids at YouTube outnumber the critical ones.

    Here are a couple of the latter:

    David Hicks - Your Teddy Bear
    David Hicks is a Dangerous Man

    I hope the US do it right and don’t stuff up his trial.  Many of my enlightened work colleagues are now feeling sorry for Hicks ... the same ones that were lapping up Latham 2 years ago ... can’t wait for them to start worshiping Rudd ... I think the Hick’s cheer squad is really out there to discredit Prime Minister Howard.  Because Hicks has Afghanistan and US (imprisonment) written all over him, the illogical conclusion is the PM.

    Posted by Stevo on 2007 02 06 at 06:40 AM • permalink

  61. #41 - frankly mate, I’d be really disappointed if Dawood went to water after 5 years in the slammer.  If someone really believes in their principles, if they hold strong convictions or faith, then they should be able to hold out indefinitely.

    How many Australian POW’s went over to the Japs or the Germans during WWII?  Not many.  They were tough enough to hold off all the blandishments of better treatment, or the threats of brutal punishment and to stay true to their cause.  Their conviction and faith led many to attempt escape, which led to further punishment, confinement or death.

    Think of the US POWS in Vietnam like McCain who stuck it out for years.  Strong people will hold true.

    I don’t believe the bastard can ever be “rehabilitated” as he comes from stock that never gives up the fight.  He might be fighting for the wrong cause, but I doubt he will ever give up that fight.

    Stupid lefties who would piss their pants at the sight of Sgt Shultz will never understand that point.

    Which is why we have to shoot the silly bugger.  Or lock him up until he’s too feeble to be any threat.  Anyone who would go overseas and fight for the KLA and then go to Afghanistan for more action is clearly a tough nut.  I’ll give him that.  I don’t think he is a pussy.  Trouble is, this new campaign makes him out to be one.

    Big mistake.  He ain’t no pussy.

    Posted by mr creosote on 2007 02 06 at 08:08 AM • permalink

  62. Crikey reader Sue Bradford and anyone else interested in her point might note that under the Corrections Bill 2006 currently before the ACT parliament guarantees prisoners only 1 hour per day in the open air and 1 hour for exercise. This Bill was raked over by ‘human rights’ lawyers by lawyers in the Stanhope government’s Human Rights Division and probably by the Human Rights Commission.

    The more general point here is that the conditions at Gitmo may not be too different from our own standards (and one can bet that they are better than those in the prisons of most other nations).

    Posted by ujamaa on 2007 02 07 at 02:04 AM • permalink

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