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TRAPPED IN THE PAST
Writing in the New York Times, Seth Mydans urges that people get over the Vietnam War. Particularly Vietnamese people who fought against communism:
Some old soldiers don’t even fade away. They keep on fighting, trapped in their own past as the world around them changes, ghosts of a long-dead war.
Long dead? Not in the New York Times, it isn’t.
Sheesh, and I thought I was cynical. ...OK, old soldiers, fade away already. Rattling around in yer old wars, getting on everyone’s nerves ...
Here’s another old ... ster who won’t fade away.Posted by crittenden on 2006 11 27 at 11:45 AM • permalink“trapped in their own past as the world around them changes, ghosts of a long-dead war”
That’s the Times, all right. See ourselves as others see us? At the Times? Give me a break.
Posted by John Fembup on 2006 11 27 at 12:15 PM • permalinkJeez, how I hate the NYT.
At my college campus, we have lots of Vietnamese students. They HATE the Communists because they know their relatives suffered when we left and are still suffering now. They protested the use of the Communist flag at commencement and won. They argue with their left-leaning professors. I guess they’re ridiculous old fogeys, too.
Thanks JeffS ... now, I just want to emphasize ...
(fake-out ital)
...ha ha, you thought I was going to do it again!
Posted by crittenden on 2006 11 27 at 12:22 PM • permalinkMore oneness, less categories,
Open hearts, no strategies.
Decisions based upon faith and not fear.
People who live right now and right here.
I want the wisdom that wise men revereI want more
* PRNK gymnastics video accompanies this catchy little collectivist propaganda tune from the Britshit pallid-techno-rock band Faithless.
Old soldiers who actually fought in the war, and believed in the cause, should just shut up. The Vietnam War is the sole and exclusive intellectual property of the New York Times and their fellow travelers in the Lamestream Media, to be invoked only when a Republican administration is to be denounced.
God, I hate the media.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 11 27 at 12:59 PM • permalinkSo, when John Murtha and John Kerry and their cohorts hammer on the Vietnam War as they try to discuss an entirely different war in an entirely different part of the world some thirty years later, that’s okay, but when Mr. Tong protests that he’d like to have his country back please, that’s just an old fogey being a nuisance? It’s a wonder the NYT doesn’t break its collective neck trying to whip from one rationalization to the next.
trapped in their own past as the world around them changes
And I’ll bet not one editor at the NYT noted the irony in that opening paragraph.
Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2006 11 27 at 02:52 PM • permalinkNever ceases to amaze me how the media and anti-war fogeys from the 60s think that the Vietnamese should be grateful for the destruction of South Vietnam.
Since there seems to be a plan from the same types for Iraq to go the same way, I guess in twenty years we’ll be seeing editorials telling Iraqis to “get over the fact their homeland became a brutal theocracy.”
Posted by Quentin George on 2006 11 27 at 03:40 PM • permalink...it’s an excellent example of not removing the mote from your own eye prior to removing the beam in the other fellow’s.
And here I thought it just was Jon Carry’s inner dork shining through.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 11 27 at 03:41 PM • permalinkA drummer’s wagon was parked in the dusty street in the shade of a cottonwood tree. A small woman in a black crinoline dress stood on the dropped tailgate that doubled as a speaker’s platform. In her hand, she held a bottle and was haranguing the locals who had gathered ‘round to see what was what.
“Good morning, friends, good morning! I’m delighted to be here in . . . er, in this lovely village, and I’m delighted that I’ve been given the task of doin’ the Lord’s work by restoring my fellow-man to health, wealth and spiritual well-being.”
The clerk from the feed store noisily swatted a horsefly that had been buzzing around his neck, and a young boy practiced on his pea-shooter, hitting an empty bucket repeatedly.
“That’s right, friends, health, wealth and spiritual well-being can be yours for the low price of one U.S. dollar, in return for which you will receive a bottle of Doc Pelosi’s Swamp Root Remedy! Good for treating quagmires, unequal distribution of wealth, general corruption, foreign entanglements, liver spots and neuralgia. Yours, for only a dollar!”
The clip-clopping of a horse could be heard, as a cowpoke rode slowly down the street. He reined in by the wagon, and tipped his hat to the drummer. “’Mornin’, ma’am. Mind if I have a look-see at that bottle?”
Doc Pelosi frowned; the cowpoke was covered in trail dust, he had a five-day growth of beard, and his eyes were a penetrating gray-blue, with a twinkle of merriment in them. Still, she couldn’t very well refuse his request with all these potential suckers standing around. She tossed the bottle to him.
The cowpoke one-handed the bottle, pulled the cork, and sniffed at the contents loudly. He replaced the cork, tossed the bottle back and smiled mischievously.
“Ma’am, I reckon you know what you’re about, but I’d say the active ingredient in that brew is the same stuff I’ve been plodding through for the last two months herding ten thousand head of cattle up the Goodnight-Loving Trail.”
The yokels guffawed, while Doc Pelosi blushed up to the brim of her little black hat with the ostrich plume. At the sound of unwonted laughter, the curtains at the back of the platform parted, and a tall, gaunt fellow stepped forward. He was wearing a brown velour cut-away coat, striped pants, a silk yellow vest and a plug hat. He said in a low voice, out of the side of his mouth, to Doc Pelosi, “What’s up Nan? Somebody tip off the rubes?”
On getting a gander of the dude, the cowpoke smiled broadly, removed some papers and the makin’s from his vest pocket, and proceeded to roll a cigarette. “Well, howdy! Big John Kerry, ain’t it? You still keepin’ an extra ace up your magic hat?”
Big John furrowed his brow, as he recognized the Paco Kid. He said, “Reporting for duty”, gave an elaborate mock salute, and as he stretched his arm out full length, an elastic spring-loader shot a derringer into his hand. Grinning maliciously, he said, “Got the drop on you, this time, Kid!”.
The Kid smiled even more broadly, struck a match on the saddle horn, and lit his cigarette. From the cloud of smoke, the nervous crowd heard a chuckle. “That’s right, Big John, you’ve got the drop on me. But two can play at that game. You may fire when ready, Bobby.”
Suddenly there was a loud ping!, and Big John grimaced as the derringer flew out of his hand. The lad with the pea-shooter looked triumphantly at the Paco Kid, who tipped his hat to him, in a show of professional courtesy to a fellow marksman.
“Reckon if I was you, Doc, I’d high-tail it back east, and take the dude with you. You see, we handle quagmires and such like our own way out here, so we don’t need any of your snake oil, thank you just the same. And you might want to stay out of Swift Boat Landing; there’s a few fellers there who’ve formed a low opinion of your companion’s manual dexterity with cards.”
I’ve often wondered how the Left managed, in the face of all contrary evidence, to barrack so vociferously for the enemy during the Vietnam War and well…get away with it.
However now that I see the same thing being done during the WOT (esp in Iraq) I’m suddenly not so surprised given all the political/media/moral support they seem to enjoy.
Once again despite the obvious fact that their actions support the enemy.
Once again with the useful idiots.
How I detest them.Yay, Paco the Kid!
But on a less serious note, the Times really does need to go. The CIA can buy up their old overseas offices; goodness knows the Times has the best digs in every town.
And on a most serious note, the real lesson learned from Nam—you desert your allies at the cost of your soul—is the one that the left still can’t understand. Might as well be speaking Esperanto.
I’ve often wondered how the Left managed, in the face of all contrary evidence, to barrack so vociferously for the enemy during the Vietnam War and well…get away with it.
Make no mistake, they haven’t. Yes, it’s true, they haven’t been held accountable for their treasonous acts, not officially. But history has shown an unflattering light on that segment of the baby boomer population (and thankfully, a flattering light on those who served in Vietnam).
Posted by wronwright on 2006 11 27 at 04:42 PM • permalinkIt’s no co-incidence that I see far more mental illness in Vietnam vets compared to WWII vets. Couldn’t be that the VV’s have been told by everyone what a hopeless, pointless war it was they fought and that no one wanted them over there, let alone would wish to thank them for their efforts. No, no.
Fast forward to Iraq. Let’s keep the message up: you’re just a bunch of mindless soldiers doing what no one wants you to do. That’ll give you the pride and self-esteem you need to psychologically handle the ugly side of war.
Mmm, looking forward to the next batch coming home… If any of you blokes are reading this: don’t listen to the lefty nutters! Yours is the most difficult but most important job in history.
Lest we forget, NYT, lest we forget!
Good to see the spirit of Walter Duranty lives on at the Times.
Posted by Urbs in Horto on 2006 11 27 at 05:54 PM • permalinkjesus, what a pack of twats they are. “get over” vietnam, huh? just let it go, dude!
this from the same birdcageliner that trots out groaners about the ‘dark nights of mccarthyism’ every time they’re criticized. can’t let that go, now can we?
Posted by jimmy quest on 2006 11 27 at 06:21 PM • permalinkThe future is now. All of the future lies in “NOW”. If you can afford to go a little faster than light, then there may be a little chance that you would find out what actually happened in the “PAST”, because “YOU” are in the future. Meanwhile, you may enjoy a lot of faiures from the “sonic boom” effect of light, where you go faster than the light you emitted. Think about, also, if you fired a bullet which goes the speed of light, in an opposite direction of the ship which travels in light, what happens ?
So maybe it’s the creation of soliders throughout the centuries which could be the real illusion to humanity, cupped with cultural differences.
I’m married to a Vietnam Vet, and I have to say there’s NO getting over that war. It’s the gorilla in the living room, every day of every year, thanks to the crap dished out to those guys by the people and public institutions that used to stand by servicemen in previous wars. I’m very worried for the people in Iraq now, because the same is happening. Watch your backs, people, because nobody else will.
My sister, let alone the NYT, still hasn’t explained to me how the anti-Vietnam war demos, leading to the downfall of South Vietnam, actually did any good. They think it a victory but ignore the bodies, re-education camps and boat people.
Somehow, their disconnect with reality conveniently absolves them of responsibility.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 11 27 at 08:04 PM • permalinkMake no mistake, they haven’t. Yes, it’s true, they haven’t been held accountable for their treasonous acts, not officially. But history has shown an unflattering light on that segment of the baby boomer population (and thankfully, a flattering light on those who served in Vietnam).
Sorry, I disagree. For a few years I’ve said the phrase “it’ll be another Vietnam” isn’t a prediction, but a threat, and that’s being proven true. If there were any accountability, or even memory, this wouldn’t be possible. But it is. The facts have disappeared; the press won’t tell us about the traitors’ track records, because to do so might set the press’ own goals back.
Hell, there’s a story on NRO today about the odd activities of Ted Kennedy in connection to the Soviet Union. Somehow, his friends and emissaries were able to tell the Soviets the contents of classified memos to and from diplomats. He was feeding them political information, and came close a few times to providing military information.
Kennedy—a murderer, traitor, open drunk and barely functional wasted old man—is feted as a great, admirable man. His errors disappear down the memory hole, and the accomplishments of his staff—the Frank Oz to his bloated Miss Piggy—are treated as world-shaking and history-making.
The traitors seized the means to declare our defeat, and have done so.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 11 27 at 08:47 PM • permalinkWronright I’m afraid that whilst I admire your stolid beliefs I tend to think Rob Crawford is closer to the mark.
What I mean is that even in todays’ world with the internet, the fifth coloumn mounts these repugnant attacks with seeming impunity, oblivious to the damage they reek both past and present.
I seriously believe that our greatest enemy, our most dire threat comes from within and these bastards, they both know it and revel in it.
So we must remain ever stronger in our determination to prevail.
Never say die gents.#21, 81Alpha
Once again despite the obvious fact that their actions support the enemy.
Once again with the useful idiots.Only because we’re not rounding up the snotgobblers and hanging the mouthbreeders.
We’ve let ourselves be socially re-engineered into a people that no longer are able to kill in order to survive.
Every time a soldier utters the blasphemy of “we serve so you can say what you say and do what you do” which actually means, the soldier serves so that others can commit treason and aid the enemy in killing that soldier… everytime a soldier says those words, we move another step down the road to defeat.
What I mean is that even in todays’ world with the internet, the fifth coloumn mounts these repugnant attacks with seeming impunity, oblivious to the damage they reek both past and present.
For some evidence, look at the discovery that the AP has been reporting “stories” sourced solely from someone claiming to be an Iraqi policeman, who isn’t. The AP never bothered to confirm the stories, or the identity of the “source”.
Why the AP isn’t being investigated and punished for false advertisement is a mystery.
OK, it’s not really—the press would retaliate against anyone so disrespectful.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 11 27 at 09:12 PM • permalinkUm, Grimmy, that’s not blasphemy, don’t be stupid. Think before you post, please.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 11 27 at 09:43 PM • permalinkPatricia in Australia recently the Australian/Vietanmese community gathered in thousands to protest S.B.S. (a media organ? set up FOR ethnic communities)-screening daily “news” propaganda direct and UNEDITED from Vietnam.
Protests to SBS were ignored for months before the protest OUTSIDE SBS headquarters by the Vietnamese community.
Under the intense scrutiny of the “non ethnic” media -SBS finally backed down and stopped relaying Communist news.
Ater all the Vietnamese community they are “serving” in Australia are all SOUTH Vietnamese and family or descendents.You realize this is all a prelude to 40 years of listening to lefties blather on about American war crimes in Iraq while telling anyone who served in the (current) Iraqi Army to get over it. Here’s another prediction: They reviled Vietnam vets and belatedly decided they loved them. Right now they go on about supporting the troops, but when the troops come back and say “Why did you pull us out of there?” they’ll start hating them.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 11 27 at 10:06 PM • permalinkRight now they go on about supporting the troops, but when the troops come back and say “Why did you pull us out of there?” they’ll start hating them.
Oh, they hate them now. Always have. They’ve been scared to say it out loud, but lately they sense the wind changing (or think they do). Anybody who’s seen “The Simpsons” or “Family Guy” recently can see it.
#36, mareeS:
Watch your backs, people, because nobody else will.
#46, crittenden:
Right now they go on about supporting the troops, but when the troops come back and say “Why did you pull us out of there?” they’ll start hating them.
As Dave S points out, it’s already that time. It’s just be a different name for the same thing.
But thank you for the good words: they need to be said so that all may hear, and some uderstand. I never thought that the future was going to be bright and sunny, but the leftards are doing their damndest to make it as ugly as possible.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 11 27 at 10:52 PM • permalinkShame on you, Tim. This is shoddy, unfair sampling from the Mydans piece which, as you’d know if you’d read the full article, was about a lunatic former Sth Vietnamese Air Force officer who illegally flew a light plane from Bangkok, over Saigon, and dropped leaflets urging the people to rise and overthrow the communist party. Anyone who thinks Saigon’s people are up for revolution is barking mad; they and the rest of Vietnam’s population are too busy making money.
Seth is one of the best journos working in SEAsia. Pick on someone that deserves it. God you can be a wanker, Blair.
Posted by Bearded Mullah on 2006 11 28 at 02:27 AM • permalinkGod forbid someone should urge the Vietnamese people to overthrow a commie dictatorship.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 11 28 at 03:07 AM • permalink“making money”
Btw, Taiwan’s per capita GDP is $28,000, and Vietnam’s is $3,000 (assuming that the commies aren’t lying about their economy…which is a mighty big assumption).
That’s one of the differences between freedom and communism.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 11 28 at 03:27 AM • permalinkYes, anyone who flies a light aircraft over Saigon - one of the most economically vibrant cities in Asia - scattering leaflets calling for revolution against communism, is stark raving bonkers bananas crazy, and most certainly living in the past.
Communism is as dead in VN as it is in China. The reason per capita income is lower in VN than Taiwan is that they’ve had free markets for a shorter period. Using your lame logic, Dave, I could compare the GDP per capita of communist Cuba ($3,500) with that of capitalist Mongolia ($1,900) and conclude that capitalism was a failure. But I’m not a shit-for-brains so won’t resort to such puerile and selective argumentation. The point is growth and poverty reduction, and both have been spectacular in Vietnam for the past decade. Who wants revolution when the economy’s roaring along at 8-10% p.a?
Posted by Bearded Mullah on 2006 11 28 at 06:10 AM • permalinkWho wants revolution when the economy’s roaring along at 8-10% p.a?
Someone who wants free speech, freedom of religion, freedom to chose their own leaders, etc?
Nah. All that must be “stark raving bonkers bananas crazy”.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 11 28 at 06:42 AM • permalinkOMG he dropped leaflets????? Why, someone could have gotten hurt—a small cute child could have gotten a paper cut!!! He’s mad, I tell you, mad! Lock ‘im up. And never forget, Saigon is one of the most economically vibrant cities in Asia. Wealth is more important than freedom!
This message has been brought to you by Communists Are Cute, Ltd.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 11 28 at 07:14 AM • permalink“Using your lame logic, Dave, I could compare the GDP per capita of communist Cuba ($3,500) with that of capitalist Mongolia ($1,900) and conclude that capitalism was a failure.”
You could, except Mongolia was a commie hellhole until 1990. Yet another glowing example of the “vibrant” economies socialism produces. Compare and contrast commie Mongolia with places like South Korea, Taiwan or Japan where the commies never got a foothold.
“But I’m not a shit-for-brains”
You could probably get odds on that one.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 11 28 at 01:28 PM • permalinkCommunism is as dead in VN as it is in China.
What’s quite alive in both countries is rampant corruption, though. That’s generally what you get when markets and capitalism are allowed into Communist countries without replacing the ruling class - said ruling class turns into ruthless kleptocrats. So, yeah, I think pushing for the downfall of Vietnam’s communists is still wholly appropriate, it’s just the term “revolution” that probably isn’t completely fitting to the situation.
For the left to admit the likes of Mr. Tong have a point, they would have to admit that they have the blood on their hands of the 3,000,000-odd Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians who were murdered by their peace-loving governments after we pulled out.
Neva. Gonna. Happen.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 11 28 at 09:32 PM • permalink“Hey, man, just move on, y’know?”
As long as I can move on over the corpses of commies, I’m willing.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 11 29 at 04:10 AM • permalink#44, Andrea:
With all due respect, you are dead wrong. That term is a shiny example of PC dronism at its most corrosive and sneaky effectiveness.
Every time that gets uttered, the field is surrendered to the traitors and the argument for the hearts and minds on the home font is left unfought.
Please take a moment and think it through.
What is it that is being excused in each and every case?
Expressions of support for the enemy.
Accusations without cause against our own.When I was in uniform, in the late 70’s to mid 80’s, that term was still new enough to be recognized for what it was. A defensive reaction to a constant and unending barrage of rhetorical attacks against our country in general and our military specifically.
Put it into real terms. Say the unsaid parts.
We serve(d) so that our own countrymen can stand for the enemy, speak up for the enemy, side with the enemy, make excuses for the enemy, encourage the enemy in his efforts to kill us and take the enemy’s accusations and propaganda at face value no matter how ridiculous or incredible it may be.
Now, consider your reaction and then reconsider the issue of cultural rot and the weakness that is preventing us from actually fighting this war like our survival depends on success…which it does, btw.
You don’t respond to “cultural rot” by setting everything on fire, Grimmy. I don’t like mealy-mouthed nicey-niceness (which is what the “we’re defending your freedom to protest our defending of you” boils down to) any more than you do, but hanging people for merely being polite in the way they have been brought up isn’t exactly the answer. YOU take some time to think things through before you shoot your mouth off.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 01 at 08:06 AM • permalink
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Because, you know, Viet Nam has been transformed into the workers’ paradise that the Communists promised, in which everyone has plenty to eat and a high standard of living and is free to speak his mind and ....