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Robert Spencer rounds up the latest on those Prophet-rocking cartoons:
These cartoons are much less offensive than what is routinely printed in every American newspaper about presidents, presidential candidates, and other pols. Yet strange as it may seem to Western non-Muslims, the rage over them seems to grow with each passing day — until the global scale of the response to it has now involved ambassadors from many countries, the United Nations, international boycotts, and the threatening of utterly innocent businesspeople and embassy personnel.
Hit the link for more. Brian Tiemann has additional thoughts.
Muslim cartoon rage. It would be comical, except it has turned into a diplomatic incident involving several counties. How long will it take before we get fatwas and murders and whatever the outraged and offended can justify in the name of religion.
They seem like spoilt school kids, carrying on like pork chops. Yes RebeccaH, I also had some Danish salami last tonight. Too mild. However, I love pork crackling ... mmmm ...
John Stuart Mill, ‘On Liberty’
“But the peculiar evil of silencing an expression of opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.”
Here in Oregon, the noble mission to erase words continues apace - spurred on by Leftist Controllists. “Savage”, used to honor the Indians’ dedication to defense of their lives, beliefs, and ways, has been forcibly removed from the “Enterprise Savages” which denoted the school’s teams. This took 8 years of bullying of the students, who never did vote to not keep the term, finally agreeing to use it [“Savage”] only as an adjetive. Then it simply disappeared altogether. Now the teams are called the “Outlaws”, a great improvement, either honoring outlaws or disparaging the school.
Likewise the State has decreed that the term “squaw” should disappear from the public land. But who would name something “Squaw Butte”, for example, in an attempt to dishonor Indian women?
What happens is that American Indians are being erased from history in the glorious vendetta toward thought and speech control waged by anti-free thought bigots, who in their zealous control need really couldn’t care less about rights, respect, survival, and so on.
It’s maddening. Does that count for anything? No, because there is “good” outrage/offendedness, and “bad” outrage/offendedness, blah, blah, blah. Probably, the only way out of this is to fight the war on free thought, and us, vigorously using free thought itself - maybe even savagely? uptalk apology.
I think we can made amends by making a Muslim version of Brokeback Mountain, only this time the movie will end with a brick wall collapsing on the lovers.
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2006 02 02 at 02:19 PM • permalinkWhat a weapon. We could make these islamonazi societies come unglued, unhinged, and apart at the seams, just by throwing the right images and words at them often enough and widely enough. Beamed into their homes, their TVs & radios. Leaflets. Internet, hacking all their Websites. Imagine the things that civilization could do. And just keep going and laying it on thicker and meaner all the time.
Really, it would be more humanitarian than bombing, if it comes to it.
Something odd (to me at least) occurred last night at 11.30 pm Brisbane time. I was watching BBC World on sat TV and they announced the next news programme would be about the cartoon furore.
Lees Dousett appeared momentarily and in matter of seconds the programme disappeared and up came Earth Report as a substitute. I have checked their website listing for 2nd Feb and cannot find any reference to Earth Report at that time.
Makes me wonder whether it was too much of a hot potato and suddenly dropped or just a zone switch.
#9 ForNow
I like the idea.
In a way the various Euro-Papers reprinting the pics in support of the Danes is demonstrating the effectiveness of such a tactic.
Hopefully this raucus wont just fade into the corner only to flare up in another form in the future.
Lets bring this conflict to a boil…or create a fulcrum…or get the camels nose under the tent…or (insert metaphor here).
Barbarians are meant to be tamed (or destroyed). We cant do that by endlessly celebrating diversity for diversity’s sake.
Spag;
I saw the Beeb’s story on the matter here in the U.S. (Minnesota) at 10 pm local (some 19 hours ago).
The editing work was artful in the way of camera angles, page turns and fuzz-outs, that they could plausibly tell Muslims they didnt broadcast the pics, while bieng able to argue at the same time to Western critic types that they didnt chicken out either.
I doubt they can win with either side, but like I say it was a nice effort on their part.
It can all be explained by one fact. Muslims are intellectual and emotional two-year-olds. SInce when do adults kowtow to infants having a tantrum? And what happens when they do? The shrieking and chest-beating and object-hurling only escalate. All the West needs to do is stop listening. But of course the MSM won’t stop, because a) they fundamentally sympathize with the two-year-olds as victims of abuse by Western and Jewish “parents”, b) perpetual tantrums make for perpetual “news.”
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 02 02 at 06:56 PM • permalinkInteresting contrast over at opinionjournal.com under banner of “rumble strippings”. Looks like the US has an answer to our delightful Mr Leunig. This amputee cartoon is clearly a disgrace but JCS does wrote in protest no more.
Posted by the nailgun on 2006 02 02 at 07:46 PM • permalinkThomas:
“I doubt they can win with either side”
True. But at least the BBC won’t have to worry about one side melting down into paroxyms of violent revenge because it was ‘insulted.’
Guess which side that will be?
This whole uproar is especially annoying since anyone who dares to complain about things like ‘Piss Christ’ is dismissed as an intolerant, thin-skinned crank.
This would be hilarious, if the despotic regimes in the Middle East didn’t engage in continuous cartoon mockery in their print media.
A small example.
All RWDB blogs should band together, and invite reader submission of cartoons, and publish them the length and breadth of the internet. Imagine the monkey-howls coming from the Islamofreaks then!
On a more serious note, is this likely to be a wake-up call for the MSM, that essential freedom of the press is under attack, or will they continue to ignore the issue?
It was only a matter of time before this happened…
BEIRUT (AFP) - The leader of the Lebanese fundamentalist Shiite movement Hezbollah claimed that if Muslims had executed British novelist Salman Rushdie others would not dare to insult Islam.
And this great sentence towards the bottom:
An Iranian charitable foundation has offered a 2.8 million dollar bounty for Rushdie’s head.
A charitable foundation? From Dictionary.com:
# Generous in giving money or other help to the needy.
# Mild or tolerant in judging others; lenient.Why can’t these people be called what they are?
It sort of looks to me like a “tipping point” of sorts, or at least a wake-up call for a host of interested parties - MSM, moderate Moslems, EU/UN axis and other enabling lefties.
I mean, it’s just cartoons for chrissakes! Kids’ stuff. And so the over-reaction will get a lot more attention. Hopefully followed by some soul-searching and clear-thinking. (The optimist in me thinks that. The pessimist in me reminds the optimist that I’ve thought something similar several times already, but have been disappointed.)
As for the Danes (I lived among them for a couple of years, so I know at least a little about their mindset), I think the editors’ intention was not so much to get Moslems to react or to effect change, but rather to assert their own closely held rights to free-speech (Danes take this right more seriously than most Europeans). In short, they did it because the could.
And these are the People Jimmy Cahatah wants to give a chance to show that they can live in peace. Give Hamas a chance, declares Jimmyass. Of course, he’s not the one who needs to take a chance. It’s the Israelis who must take the chance with their children’s lives. Tell me Jimmy, would you pur forth your kids in the gamble?
The Dutch are getting into the taunting MO mode - check this OUT
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 02 at 09:43 PM • permalink#17,
Two more examples: cartoons from the Arab World, and a cartoon from ‘Al-Quds’.I see some armed paleo’s tried to kidnap someone from a hotel overnight, but instead of getting the Dane of Frenchperson they were after, they got got themselves a German instead (serves them right i suppose), which after they realised their mistake they palmed him off at some police station…
The fools couldn’t even get that right….
Good to see the police acted so promptly to take these losers into custody as well….
By the way, in a moment of purely rational thought. This furore over the cartoons is not directly comparable. The Danes printed pictures of Mohammed, who although he isn’t the entity Allah, he is obviously a very religious figure in Muslim culture. They haven’t drawn mocking pictures of Christ as he is also considered a prophet in their religion and so that would probably be forbidden.
Of course, they have drawn mocking secular cartoons of Israel, the Jews and the West. But to be fair we have drawn mocking equivalents of Osama and Saddam and probably arabs in general, which would be about the equivalent of them drawing pictures of the US/Bush/Sharon/Israel etc… While not necessarily liking it, they probably don’t propose Jihad over those sorts of cartoons…
I know some here are comparing it to offences caused by displays of art showing a crucifix dipped in urine etc, which obviously is a religious desecration to many, but was this
artcrap created by a Muslim, or one of our own gutless, loathsome leeches probably living off some government handout within the US or Australia?I don’t know who exactly it was who thought it ok to offend so many while exercising their “rights” and “freedoms”????
I don’t know who exactly it was who thought it ok to offend so many while exercising their “rights” and “freedoms”????
Anyone who takes freedom seriously. Really, being offended does not trump others’ rights. Google “heckler’s veto”.
What you’re really doing is giving Muslims a patronizing pat on the head and saying, “well, we shouldn’t get you kids all worked up like that.” The rest of us expect them to act like grown-ups.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 02 at 10:45 PM • permalinkI can not understand why ,when these mad mullahs carry on in western nations and try to act like little despots,they are not simply marched to the nearest exit and sent on their way back to their own delightful countries.
To see them demonstrating en masse is to see something so totally unbalanced and quite insane.
They belong to the Middle East and no where else.That last line of my post was meant to refer to “who was the person who thought it ok to go and dunk a crucifix in urine???” it had nothing to do with the paleos or muslims… i must say i get pretty peeved when people go and desecrate mine and others religious beliefs willy nilly… it in fact had nothing to do with the current muslim issue…
if u have a look at my post just above, u can see i have no sympathy with most of the (over)reaction of the islamic world to this latest issue and their constant rantings and threats, and so was handing out no pats on the head to anyone…
i was merely rationally pointing out that there can be a difference between how people react to offensive cartoons about their political leaders, countries, nationalities etc and how they accept art, pictures, stories etc grossly insulting their religion… many in the West can get pretty steamed at artists insensitivity to their deeply held religious beliefs in the name of “freedom of expression” especially when it is taken to the extent of involving bodily waste…
but as with many people who talk down our countries, undermine our national pride, support radical causes, try to force their minority opinions on the majority, they are our own people working against us, americans, australians, brits, not foreigners as u would expect… the person who dunked the crucifix in urine was probably not a muslim, but some anglo artist on state welfare….
It’s interesting to see the ABC and SBS downplaying the frothing madness of the followers of the religion of peace.
Rather than reporting that any depiction of mohammed is strictly forbidden (and that this is why the Islamofacists have gone insane), they’ve been implying that they’re only mad about the cartoon of mohammed with a bomb in his turban.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 02 02 at 11:09 PM • permalinkIts racism from the PC brigade. They refuse to hold “brown” people to the same standard as “whites”.
Post that accusation on a few lefty boards and watch heads explode, its fun*
* I wouldnt condone trolling leftys, nope, not me, (anyway you cant prove nuttin)Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 02 at 11:18 PM • permalink28. ABC last night did mention that representations of Mohammed are forbidden. I’ve not seen the news today, so that’s probably changed.
27.Casanova, I know what you’re saying about muslims not representing our religious beliefs in their mockery, but I don’t think that’s the point of all of this. They have the freedom to take the piss out of judaism and christianity and everything else if they so choose, and no doubt we’d just shrug and laugh it off if it’s funny.
The muslims in general have a well-documented tendency to go off tap at the slightest provocation (real or imagined), and this is the problem.
It’s Allah’s way or the highway. There is no middle ground, which is why this cartoon situation is so important.
We supposedly have the freedom to say what we like within reason, but 12 relatively innocuous drawings really shouldn’t be an excuse for world war 3.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 02 at 11:30 PM • permalinkThe above is exactly the sort of thing i wouldnt condone….
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 02 at 11:40 PM • permalinkNilk, i know, they over react way to much and think they have the right to tell everyone all over the world to live by their tenets of the RoP or else, if they depicted Jesus doing something sick, we wouldn’t like it, but coz we are more culturally evolved, we wouldn’t start surrounding embassies, shooting off guns and threatening to kick people out or kinap them… and thats a good thing, u don’t have to believe in any religion in a free country, but u don’t have to go out of your way to grossly offend many people’s beliefs to make a marginal point about freedom of speech…
just for the sake of accuracy i was making the point as many had raised it about the crucifix, that it was one of our own who likes to grossly offend many people… i’m certainly not defending this muslim over reaction either…. just making a point that secular and religious insults can cause people of different nationalities to react in different ways…. the biggest problem isn’t the over reaction of the muslims, that can be expected, its the sell-out by our own intelligentsia who treat issues differently depending on whose getting upset and can’t hold a consistent line on these things or stand up for OUR rights… our own people undermining us is what gets me steamed….
#30, as best as I can recall, there was no mention today that representations of mohammed are forbidden.
Maybe someone higher-up did some ‘editing’ overnight?
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 02 02 at 11:48 PM • permalinkCasanova, I might be sympathetic to the idea that we ought to restrain ourselves out of courtesy to Muslims’ beliefs provided they do likelwise to us. But we have freedom of speech in the West (at any rate as long as the PC ghouls don’t get at us). Christians complained about Srranno’s Piss Christ, an obscenity posing as art, but they did not threaten him with murder. If we are to put up with death threats from Muslims and curtail our freedoms as a result we will be voluntarily assuming the stance of second class citizens.
This reminded me of an incident in the life of Nelson. He was at a soiree and picked up a fireplace poker. He said that it did not matter in what direction he put it down, but that if Bonaparte said it must be put down pointing in this direction, it was instantly necessary to put it down pointing in some other direction.
If Muslims say that we must not print pictures of Muhammed under threat of death, it is instantly necessary that we do print such pictures. In fact Jyllands-Post originally published the pictures to test out this matter, whether or not Muslims could accept Western freedom of speech. What they proved was that Muslims cannot. It’s time they do.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 02 02 at 11:54 PM • permalinkIts not enough of a difference we share to keep going, i agree with what people are saying here and have no time for threats to peoples safety and well being… and if they don’t like the danes/norwegians/frogs being in the gaza strip, then maybe they don’t want to take all that european aid money either???
i was just for the sake of accuracy pointing out religious insults are more likely to get people upset on both sides, than secular insults (although i’d like to punch leunig in the face for his insult to the Anzacs)... and that there was a slight difference in that respect (religious/secular) about the cartoons against Israel/the West in that arab newspaper and these current ones against mohammed… anyway, i made the point about that, and the guy who likes to insult christians here in the West who i’d probably also like to kick in the bollocks (hopefully not infringing on his freedom of artistic expression), its been discussed, maybe it added to the debate, filled it out a bit more, maybe it didn’t…
at the risk of me being labeled some bleeding heart, paleo-loving lefty which i ain’t… :o)
One commenter today asked “what are they going to do, kill us deader?”
There are signs here and there that rank and file Muslims, particularly those living in Europe, are getting justifiably nervous about the backlash to the backlash. There are lots of calls for calm from both sides now.
I don’t like to see anyone’s religion demeaned, but, hey, as long as Muslims are willing to condone the practice of strapping on explosives with the intent of killing and maiming innocent bystanders all in the name of Allah, I’d say their prophet is fair game.
And anyway, I have to question a religion that bestows its highest heavenly reward on those murderers and counts as its highest heavenly reward the opportunity to screw 72 perpetual virgins for eternity.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 02 03 at 01:46 AM • permalinkYes… the RoP is not exactly my cup of tea… but it takes all sorts i suppose…
Although the more u think about some aspects of it, it doesn’t seem all bad… :o)
Still the females seem to miss out on some of the fun…. both here and in the afterlife… but they do have those snazzy swimming suits to enjoy… :o)
@Room 237- You bastard! I just spent the last 5 minutes waiting for the last of the Pepsi to drain out of my nose.
Posted by Just passing by on 2006 02 03 at 02:35 AM • permalinkMeanwhile, socialist front group RWB’s take a bold stand for freedom of speech.
The journalist group Reporters Without Borders called for moderation and dialogue. “The political and religious authorities in the Islamic states and the press in the Arab world should calm tempers,” the group said in a statement. But it may come far too late.
Yeah.
Danish Muslim leaders are distributing a report to Muslims in other countries on the offensive cartoons, now with 15 cartoons pictured, not 12. The Danish Muslims cannot answer where the three additional ones came from.
Read here. Scroll down to the last two paragraphs. The source document can be found here but it’s in Arabic. Anyone here read Arabic?
Isn’t this an attempt to encite violence? I thought there are laws against this sort of thing.
43/45 Stevo, those 3 extra pictures were apparently added by muslims to whip up more outrage. I’m too lazy to link, but a quick search over at JihadWatch would turn up all the links to that one.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 03 at 05:17 AM • permalinkCasanova, gotcha.
ABC news tonight showed a newspaper with the cartoons. There wasn’t a lot of detail in the film, obviously. Also showed footage of muslims in Indonesia storming the Danish embassy. I think it was in Jakarta. Luckily nobody got hurt, but I am shocked that there were no arrests.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 03 at 05:19 AM • permalinkCasanova - look at the cartoons in question and tell me they’re HATEFUL.
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 03 at 06:03 AM • permalink#54.Stveo, those pictures are the ones added to by Danish muslims according to <a >Brussels Journal.</a>
The original 12 are quite obvious caricatures and not offensive in my opinion, and the 3 added are most definitely designed to provoke a strong reaction.
I’ve been following this since September, and those 3 were definitely not part of the original. I doubt that any respectable newspaper would print them in the first place. Even the Aged wouldn’t print them, I think.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 03 at 06:27 AM • permalinkSorry about the tags. Brussels Journal here.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 03 at 06:30 AM • permalinkDe nada, Stevo. I’ve been a bit fluffy of late myself.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 02 03 at 06:58 AM • permalinkFor a good source of articles related to topics like this, try one of my favourite sites, Butterflies and Wheels.
It’s getting late, got cricket tomorrow, good night.Clear incitement to murder here - http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13501917,00.html. Marchers in London with placards saying “Massacre those who insult islam” and so forth.
How helpful of them to show so clearly what is at stake.
Will they be arrested? Ha ha
Joe Peden
Likewise the State has decreed that the term “squaw” should disappear from the public land. But who would name something “Squaw Butte”, for example, in an attempt to dishonor Indian women?
This might be an urban myth, and I’m sorry to not remember what state this supposedly took place in, but supposedly the state government of one eastern state was doing exactly this type of revision to its own maps, and the boss of that state’s Bureau of Maps and Cartography (or whatever they called it) systematically renamed “Squaw Lake,” “Squaw Hill,” and every other “Squaw Geographical Feature” to “Politically Correct Lake,” etc. He got fired for it, which is how the story got into the papers. I’d google it up properly, if I weren’t so lazy and inefficient.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 03 at 12:35 PM • permalinkKaboom 17
This would be hilarious, if the despotic regimes in the Middle East didn’t engage in continuous cartoon mockery in their print media.
It’s hilarious anyway. Some day down the road, when the dust has settled and the histories start getting written about the Third World War, some bright spark is going to devote a chapter, or hopefully a whole volume, to the rioting and insurrectioning and massacre-ing that arose over ... cartoons. That turban-bomb-prophet cartoon will one day be as famous as ... oh I dunno, as James Montgomery Flagg’s WWI-era Uncle Sam posters. Only funnier, and more prophetic.
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 03 at 01:02 PM • permalinkAlso Kaboom 17
On a more serious note, is this likely to be a wake-up call for the MSM, that essential freedom of the press is under attack, or will they continue to ignore the issue?
Paging Mr Toles ... paging Mr Rall ... paging Mr Leunig ... that’s odd, where’d everybody go?
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 03 at 01:04 PM • permalinkAbu Qa’Qa 62
Mo’ need more KY Jelly for your goat?
Hey!
Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 03 at 01:19 PM • permalink
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“The threatening of utterly innocent people and embassy personnel”. Let us recognise this for what it is. The insane rage of a barbaric people crying in the name of the “Religion of Peace”. And as usual the spineless leftoids of the world crawl on their stomachs before the would-be Caliphs, betraying their countrymen, the ideals of freedom they so hypocritally acclaim, to kiss the feet that will soon be pressed down against their necks, holding them fast for the be-headers. Soon one of them will whine “First they came for the cartoonists, and I said nothing, then they came for ....”