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TALIBAN FEELINGS HURT

Words fail:

Afghanistan’s Taliban on Saturday demanded Pope Benedict XVI to apologise for remarks linking Islam with violence.

Via TFM. One assumes the Taliban will also demand an apology for this blatant linking of Islam with violence:

A hardline cleric linked to Somalia’s powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to “hunt down” and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam ...

“Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim,” [Sheikh Abubukar Hassan] Malin, a prominent cleric in the Somali capital, told worshippers at a mosque in southern Mogadishu.

UPDATE. The Sword of Islam wants an apology, too:

We want to make it clear that if the pope does not appear on TV and apologize for his comments, we will blow up all of Gaza’s churches.

UPDATE II. The—ahem—Islamic Salafist Boy Scout Battalion joins the list of apology-demanders:

This group threatens to kill all Christians in Iraq if the Pope does not apologize in three days in front of the whole world to Mohammed.

UPDATE III. The New York Times:

He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology, demonstrating that words can also heal.

It’s unclear how many people the Times will kill if their demand isn’t met.

UPDATE IV. David Warren:

The BBC appears to have been quickest off the mark, to send around the world in many languages, including Arabic, Turkish, Farsi, Urdu, and Malay, word that the Pope had insulted the Prophet of Islam, during an address in Bavaria.

He had not, of course.

Read the whole thing. Also recommended: Father Raymond J. de Souza in the National Post. The Pope’s entire speech is here.

UPDATE V. Rod Liddle:

You can bet your life that by the time you read this, some Catholic priest toiling away in a godforsaken, dusty hellhole — Sudan, perhaps, or Turkey — will have been smacked about a bit, or had his church burnt down or been arrested without charge. The Pope should have been aware that Islam always reacts to western allegations that it is not a peaceful religion by mass outbreaks of vituperation, denunciation and acts of jihadic violence.

That this is a paradox seems not to be even remotely recognised by many Muslims.

UPDATE VI. The Pope isn’t backing down.

Posted by Tim B. on 09/17/2006 at 12:10 AM
  1. Actually, I’d just be happy if the New York Times demanded an apology from the cleric.

    Posted by MikeTheLibrarian on 2006 09 17 at 12:15 AM • permalink

  2. This provokes those tears of laughter which threaten to morph into tears of frustration.

    Posted by Dminor on 2006 09 17 at 12:27 AM • permalink

  3. You know, I respected the Taliban a lot more when they just stuck to shooting at me, rather than all this feckless whining. Bah.

    Posted by Major John on 2006 09 17 at 12:30 AM • permalink

  4. If the Taliban don’t apologise, perhaps Keysar Trad can suggest that he was just misunderstood, and “hunt down and kill” has a different meaning in Arabic.

    Either way, the Australian Left will be doing plenty of apologising on behalf of all non-Muslims instead.

    Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 09 17 at 12:31 AM • permalink

  5. I mean, really, what’s next - head tilts and lame power fists?

    Posted by Major John on 2006 09 17 at 12:31 AM • permalink

  6. I am sure the Taliban hasn’t shed a tear over the Pope’s remarks….

    Posted by The Best Infidel on 2006 09 17 at 12:42 AM • permalink

  7. Um… yeah…  I wouldn’t try killing the Pope there guys.  I can pretty much guarantee that this would annoy us enough to kill you.

    Posted by MikeTheLibrarian on 2006 09 17 at 12:44 AM • permalink

  8. Good thing the Pope didn’t give his speech in Victoria.  He’d quickly be up on a charge of ‘vilification and hate speech’, whatever was the ‘offendees’ response.

    Didn’t he know that quoting the opinion of a Medieval White Christian Male is forbidden even if it is accurate?

    Posted by Barrie on 2006 09 17 at 12:52 AM • permalink

  9. If the Pope were to apologise I am sure it would bring us peace in our time.

    Posted by surfmaster on 2006 09 17 at 01:05 AM • permalink

  10. #9
    LOL surfmaster.
    ***

    Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim,

    It defies logic. They definitely work from a murder manual.

    Posted by kae on 2006 09 17 at 01:16 AM • permalink

  11. ‘Afghanistan’s Taliban on Saturday demanded Pope Benedict XVI to apologise for remarks linking Islam with violence.’

    ‘We strongly condemn it,” Mohammad Hanif who regularly speaks to the media on behalf of the extremist insurgent group, said.’

    We’ll have a written apology, on behalf of the Pope, inscribed on the warhead of the next inbound hellfire missile, shit-for-brains.

    Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 09 17 at 01:17 AM • permalink

  12. When was it, exactly, that quoting  the Quran, Islam’s nefarious activities, or its mad mullahs pronouncements of armageddon, became insulting Islam?

    How is it that truth became deadly insult?

    I’m sure that when the history of the world is written in 2100, we will find out.  In the meantime, don’t question, don’t mention Islam, “just ignore us and you will be safe” is the credo to live by, from all accounts.

    Pig’s arse.

    And Barrie at #8 is quite correct - if the Pope had so pontificated in the State of Victoria, he would be liable for hate-thought crimes.

    Thank Allah that the internet is not published in Victoria…..

    Posted by Kaboom on 2006 09 17 at 01:38 AM • permalink

  13. We want to make it clear that if the pope does not appear on TV and apologize for his comments, we will blow up all of Gaza’s churches.

    The Palestinians have blown up everything else.  Why would these particular assholes need an excuse just for churches?

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 09 17 at 01:44 AM • permalink

  14. Wake up world!!!We have a fu&king; muslim problem!!!And Europe, you are the first ones up against the wall! Bombings,seething and gnashing of teeth…setting sh&t on fire and generally being pains in the ass! I AM SICK OF IT! SOrry for the yelling but I AM PISSED!

    Posted by debi L. on 2006 09 17 at 01:48 AM • permalink

  15. Islam and Socialism are totalitarian philosophies. So are most religions come to think of it - Don’t believe in our dogma and you either get killed, jailed, ostracised or classed as a non-person.

    Bhuddism seems the only religion not subject to that intolerance.

    So there is nothing to be surprised at about the lack of condemnation from our lefty commentariat - they are as intolerant of heresy as any mullah or priest.

    Posted by Louis on 2006 09 17 at 01:52 AM • permalink

  16. You couldn’t make this up, as they say.

    Posted by pjw on 2006 09 17 at 01:55 AM • permalink

  17. Islamic Salafist Boy Scout Battalions

    WTF?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?

    If that isn’t a translation mistake, then parody is dead, and we need to hold the wake.

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 09 17 at 02:11 AM • permalink

  18. Fight against such of those…who do not forbid what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. Koran 9:29

    If we constantly have to watch what we say out of fear of offending some muslim somewhere (“horse sneezes, Muslims riot”), aren’t we getting fairly close to “subdued”?

    Posted by bobby B on 2006 09 17 at 02:13 AM • permalink

  19. Tim:

    Please change your “comment” button!

    I make a comment on Islam, and what button do I have to push?

    Submit.”

    Argh.

    .

    Posted by bobby B on 2006 09 17 at 02:15 AM • permalink

  20. When is the West going to have its fill of this crap?  Why are we putting up with these little pissants?  They couldn’t make a goddam phone call without western technology, much less use one to blow anything up.  If we are so bankrupt that we continue to bow down to this shit, we don’t deserve the benefits of the Enlightenment.  If we don’t begin to act with the moral certitude that is ours, we won’t be burdened with those benefits for much longer. 

    I’m no longer fit to be around people.  There are just too many of them that I would like to slap silly.  If it weren’t for folks like you guys….

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 09 17 at 02:17 AM • permalink

  21. I’ve just read the NYtimes update. Now Im seriously pissed!!!What is wrong with these people!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by debi L. on 2006 09 17 at 02:18 AM • permalink

  22. “It’s unclear how many people the Times will kill if their demand isn’t met.”

    The NYT and various other MSM 5th Columnists/Useful Idiots will be the death of us all if they continue to play the same hand.

    Posted by blogstrop on 2006 09 17 at 02:30 AM • permalink

  23. Our Aussie Shiekh:

    Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali, the Mufti of Australia, said the Pope’s statement “did not come across as the way of the prophet Jesus.”

    “It’s not what I expect from a holy person. The church needs to re-examine its thoughts about someone who doesn’t have the qualities or good grasp of Christian character or knowledge.”

    Hmm I guess that’s because the Sheikh doesn’t know Greek nor the meaning of Reform.

    Posted by saint on 2006 09 17 at 02:35 AM • permalink

  24. Why haven’t we heard any western leaders (except the German Chancellor) sticking up for the Pope!!!!???

    Posted by Narnian1 on 2006 09 17 at 02:36 AM • permalink

  25. When is the West going to have its fill of this crap?  Why are we putting up with these little pissants?” 

    Look first to history.

    Remember back when various rogue muslims combined to wreak havoc on American interests, killing hundreds and hundreds of travelers and using their conveyences to go out and kill more?  How long ago was that?

    How about, a little over two hundred years?

    Remember the Barbary War?  Pirates of Islam marauding out to kill Americans and plunder their ships in the Med?  Remember the quote of their ambassador when American ambassador Tommy Jefferson asked why they were targeting us?

    According to Jefferson, their action against the US “was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

    I note that Jefferson argued against it, but the USA decided that the best way to deal with the Islamists then was to pay them their demanded tribute.  We paid them over $1 million per year for fifteen years (big bucks back then) to let our people go.  And now we’re yelling at the Pope to apologize?

    Who was it that said that insanity means doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

    .

    Posted by bobby B on 2006 09 17 at 02:37 AM • permalink

  26. Yawn. More whining, seething and backlashing from the Muzzies.

    I am SO sick of these backward shitheads.

    Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 09 17 at 02:57 AM • permalink

  27. #26
    Perfect. Ditto, ditto, ditto,.........

    Posted by Bonmot on 2006 09 17 at 03:17 AM • permalink

  28. I’m kind of glad he did it. Maybe they will start something and we can finally stop pussyfooting about and blow them back into the stone age. Oh, wait…

    Well it’s about time for this phoney war to end, anyway.

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 03:31 AM • permalink

  29. It seems the pope has apologised:

    http://chasemeladies.blogspot.com/2006/09/heliocentric-is-hardest-word.html

    The commentary on that post is ironic, but the Reuters story it links to is genuine.

    Posted by TimT on 2006 09 17 at 03:48 AM • permalink

  30. I do kind of wonder if the pope isnt looking for a chance to become a Christian martyr?
    He may be considering what it would take to raise Europe from its slumberand deciding that the life of one old man isnt too much to pay.
    I notice that his idea of Martyrdom consists of being killed for what he considers the truth, not strapping on a bomb belt.
    If thats his game then hes a brave dude.

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 17 at 03:51 AM • permalink

  31. I’ve had a bit of a gutful with the sneering ignorance of teh commies over at
    http://www.leftwrites.net/2006/09/16/papal-bull/

    Anyone who wants to join in trying to batter down the incredible ignorance and delusion on display is more than welcome. Just don’t expect to actually succeed.

    MarkL
    Canberra

    Posted by MarkL on 2006 09 17 at 03:57 AM • permalink

  32. #28 That would be bombed forward to the Stone Ages…

    Posted by CB on 2006 09 17 at 03:58 AM • permalink

  33. Just found this email for the Pope over at LGF. Let him know even athiests find his statement worth a mention.

    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 17 at 04:05 AM • permalink

  34. “Fight against such of those…who do not forbid what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. Koran 9:29”

    This incident is a perfect example of the Muslem demand that everyone in the world who is not a Muslim submit to Dhimmitude.

    Wake up!!!! They don’t even try to finesse the issue anymore.

    PS> Has not the Pope’s point now been proven: “You cannot reason with poeple who do not believe in reason”  How about a violent reaction to disprove a claim that you and your beliefs are violent!!!!!!

    Posted by LaVallette on 2006 09 17 at 04:18 AM • permalink

  35. Reading David Warren’s piece on the BBC, is it too late to start a “No Blood For Headlines” campaign?

    Posted by pastrami44 on 2006 09 17 at 04:22 AM • permalink

  36. Twenty-odd years ago, when I was at an Anglican high school, our favourite chant whenever we played sport against the Catholics was “Kill the micks, kill the micks, kill the micks”.  It didn’t matter what the sport was - football, rugby, rowing, cricket, swimming, hockey, debating, chess - you name it, we wanted to kill the micks.  Think several hundred school boys, all in uniform, huddled together and jumping up and down and yelling it out at the top of their lungs - we were pretty open about our disdain for all things Popish. 

    The micks, in their good natured way, would respond with some particularly pathetic chants about “proddy dogs” and such like. 

    Somehow, I doubt the current generation are allowed to use that warcry at any sporting events. 

    The thing is, the Anglicans and Micks could go at it (verbally) hammer and tongs and no one gave a damn.  We had our beliefs, they had their wierd beliefs, and we felt free to heap abuse on them for following an old guy in a skirt. 

    The odd thing is that half of us ended up marrying micks.

    Anyway, religions should be free to insult each other as loudly and horribly as possible, so long as no punches are thrown.  My advice to the hot heads is, “Grow up and get over it”.

    Posted by mr creosote on 2006 09 17 at 04:23 AM • permalink

  37. One of the churches firebombed in Gaza is Anglican.  What the hell did we do?

    Posted by anthony_r on 2006 09 17 at 04:52 AM • permalink

  38. No deaths during Muslim rioting yet? maybe the Pope should have drawn a few cartoons.

    Posted by Howzat on 2006 09 17 at 05:09 AM • permalink

  39. #37

    rebase - simply by being a Christian…...Christian churches all something in common - a cross - common to all Christian faiths.

    To a Muslim that is a graven idol.

    Strange attitude when the Ka’aba is actually a small meteorite.

    Posted by Louis on 2006 09 17 at 05:12 AM • permalink

  40. MarkL - still at it with the lefties I see, well, good luck on that.
    Seriously meant. I saw last week how ready those Seagulls   Magpies Sparrows are to remove a dissenting comment.
    To all who read this far: if you haven’t done so yet, follow the link at Update VI. You will be rewarded.

    (Update VI - good title for a Pope right there! ‘Lemme tell ya somethin’, pilgrims…)

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 09 17 at 05:17 AM • permalink

  41. I’m not Catholic. My family was vaguely Protestant, although I’ve been an atheist since I can remember.

    But I am a proud product, and beneficiary, of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and I hold decent people of faith in the highest regard.

    For the first time in my life I’m looking to the Pope for leadership. His remarks were those of a learned scholar and were made to provide historical context for the most pressing ideologocal issue of our time.

    So just let me say this, with all the conviction a secular humanist can muster: GO POPE! Don’t back down, don’t give in. You stand on the front lines on the Battle for Western Civ.

    May not this incident be the Pope’s most-referenced PR gaffe. Instead, please let it be his finest hour.

    Posted by Roberto on 2006 09 17 at 05:32 AM • permalink

  42. In editio televisium is oriens, Pontifex Benedict XVI ferito sicco procul velico of suus mane ineo in Muslimum dicum ut said velico ut a “sarcina of crybaby snake - lepor lepos” quod suadeo they tractare varius humanus impossible pluma of lentesco quod colonia facultas.

    “Fuck you”  dicit quoque. ” Quare vos non habeo sessio in meus cuspis ‘ass hat’, ” persevero Pontifex Romanum.

    “Tuum amo ut, etiam, vos Abdul? Nos totus teneo quam vos ‘camel-jockeys’ sus , sicco illic in solitudo.”

    “Etiam, illud porro gelu devia nox noctis sicco inter dunes. Vos ‘bunch of faggots’. Nos Catholici vires fornicate per parum puerum, tamen utique nos non rectus bombum in lemma Ut nos es perfectus quod occumbo lemma procul ‘bagel shop’. “

    “Certus , nos tracto nostrum women amo fimus, sive nos no lemma vestio amo pinguis ‘ninjas’ , illic non exsisto a singulus plenus pew obvius universus universitas fornicatias!. EGO vilis anno 2006, quam operor vos “assholes” adepto absentis per is? Ut secui EGO quidam quaedam quedam quidam admire, vere.”

    “Jesus H. Sarcalogos , is effercio est bonus”, secundum pausing bibo penetranter ex a rutilus vas, Suus Sanctissimus tunc propinquus suus editio per, “Ego habe suum ‘Allah’”,vox hic fecit suus cuspis per tractux acer per suus robes procul suus scrotum—dicit: “Pontifex exeunt. ”

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 09 17 at 05:36 AM • permalink

  43. #19 Yes ‘Submit’ is not the right word.

    How about ‘Launch’?

    Posted by Big Jim on 2006 09 17 at 05:38 AM • permalink

  44. The question i’m asking myself is this:
    When we ourselves are regularly insulted and threatened by top Islamic clerics do we say nothing and not even show the slightest outrage.
    And why do our liberals do their outmost to excuse these remarks when they occasionally surface in the MSM.
    Is there no pride and honour left in our culture?

    Posted by davo on 2006 09 17 at 05:39 AM • permalink

  45. So the Pope makes, “remarks linking Islam with violence,” and in response a whole bunch of Islamists threaten violence and/or commit violent acts.  The point is proved.  Laughter and contempt are now the only proper responses to claims that the religion is peaceful.

    Psalm 37: 12-15
    12 The wicked plots against the just, And gnashes at him with his teeth.
    13 The Lord laughs at him, For He sees that his day is coming.
    14 The wicked have drawn the sword And have bent their bow, To cast down the poor and needy, To slay those who are of upright conduct.
    15 Their sword shall enter their own heart, And their bows shall be broken.

    Posted by Janice on 2006 09 17 at 05:39 AM • permalink

  46. #42, Geeze MentalFloss.

    Translation please.

    Posted by Janice on 2006 09 17 at 05:42 AM • permalink

  47. Ah now Mentalfloss, now you’re just showing off.

    Posted by Olrence on 2006 09 17 at 05:42 AM • permalink

  48. 46 and 47 - Update VI!
    But you’re right, MFloss is showing off. He must be posting from Vat City itself if he knows that much Latin.

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 09 17 at 05:53 AM • permalink

  49. When is the Taliban going to apologise to Buddhists for destroying the historic Buddha images of Bameyan?

    Posted by Big Arnie on 2006 09 17 at 05:55 AM • permalink

  50. Perhaps what we are seeing in the Middle East is what results from 500 years of explicit ideological anti-rationalism. (Let the post-modernists amongst us see the path they would have taken us down.) But if that is the case, how are we to react to this? How are we to deal with people who can believe that 2 + 2 may equal 5 if God so wills it? Or if a mullah says that God would be pleased if it were so?

    Perhaps we should reconsider the recommendation to ‘conquer their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.’

    Posted by SteveGW on 2006 09 17 at 05:58 AM • permalink

  51. Soory couldn’t resist, follow link at Update VI for the English.

    I have emailed the Pope and respectfully requested he stand firm.

    If not now, then when? If not him, then who?

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 09 17 at 06:04 AM • permalink

  52. #51,  Read Update VI and all has become plain.  You big show off, dead language scholar, you.  If your mother’s not proud of you I don’t know what it would take.

    Posted by Janice on 2006 09 17 at 06:23 AM • permalink

  53. Me thinks they protest too much

    The Pope Is Right About Islam

    Jim Kouri sierratimes.com

    Posted by stackja1945 on 2006 09 17 at 06:25 AM • permalink

  54. #42: What? No Latin translation for “fuck you”?
    Woulda thought that particular idiom transcended language, culture, and the ages.

    Posted by Wally on 2006 09 17 at 06:29 AM • permalink

  55. Oh, and “Anno 2006” - MMVI, surely ;)

    Posted by Wally on 2006 09 17 at 06:31 AM • permalink

  56. #20

    To do that, we have to drop the multi-culti guilt.

    Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 09 17 at 06:32 AM • permalink

  57. The West needs to rediscover its inner bastard.

    Posted by blogstrop on 2006 09 17 at 06:35 AM • permalink

  58. 57 - The Right is the West’s inner bastard. We just need to get those whining lefties out of the way so we can fix this mess and get on with enjoying this spectacular spring weather.

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 06:43 AM • permalink

  59. #44

    In a more militant mood, how about “shoot” or “fire” or “impale”?

    “Commit” is a little unnerving, I don’t like the sound of being committed. “Publish”?

    “Execute” I like that one. “Behead”?

    Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 09 17 at 06:47 AM • permalink

  60. Chris Judd (Australian Rules Footballer and all-around geopolitical wizard) has the solution to all of the hate:

    What I’d like to see happen is for the CIA or maybe even the United Nations to create the world’s biggest hoax.

    I’d like to see them convince the world that there was a well-armed, well-trained alien invasion on its way to earth - a group of aliens who planned to overtake Earth because they needed a new planet to dump their sewerage and nuclear waste.

    Surely if this story was made believable enough, the Taliban and the United States, and Israel and the Palestinians would all come together to combine forces against the common threat.

    Of what importance would the little Gaza Strip be when we were a chance to lose the whole planet?

    Is it only a coincidence that this is published in the same newspaper that brings us Terry Lane each week?

    Posted by Villeurbanne on 2006 09 17 at 06:48 AM • permalink

  61. #41 Roberto - As a fellow atheist, I couldn’t agree more. 

    GO POPE!

    Posted by Pixy Misa on 2006 09 17 at 06:52 AM • permalink

  62. Aw, c’mon, I know it’s a crappy translation—probably shouldn’t have posted it.

    It takes more than a half an hour’s work to put a polish on something like that. Next time I won’t rush it—look what happens to the MSM when they go to print to quickly…

    T’was a bit of fun, only.

    Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 09 17 at 06:55 AM • permalink

  63. I know when I’m looking for informed, insightful and incisive geopolitical commentary, I go straight to the nearest AFL player.

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 07:01 AM • permalink

  64. I know when I’m looking for informed, insightful and incisive geopolitical commentary, I go straight to the nearest AFL player.
    Keep that up, Ian Deans, and you’ll make taxi drivers everywhere unhappy.

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 09 17 at 07:11 AM • permalink

  65. Hey he’s a great player for us, but please Juddie, keep those sort of thoughts to yourself ok…

    Posted by casanova on 2006 09 17 at 07:14 AM • permalink

  66. #31 MarkL, I just put my 32c worth in.

    Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 09 17 at 07:30 AM • permalink

  67. Hey he’s a great player for us, but please Juddie, keep those sort of thoughts to yourself ok…

    This from someone who believes the ‘Hitler’s Pope’ hoax. Casanova, I thought you’d be open to the possibility that the aliens had already landed and were hiding in the Roman catacombs. And that the Pope knows about it, of course. In fact, that the Pope should have DONE MORE to stop them invading earth!!

    Posted by C.L. on 2006 09 17 at 07:33 AM • permalink

  68. #61 Pixy Misa re GO POPE!:

    I just saw a news report about the Pope’s statement today. Evidently he’s “deeply sorry” and has “nothing but respect” for Islam.

    Disappointing. Not accusing him of dhimmitude necessarily, but I’d be dishonest if I said it never occurred to me.

    But, really, so what. Let the elites of whatever stripe capitulate. Doesn’t mean that millions of individuals, acting in our own best interests, won’t be able to do what’s right.

    So it’s up to us. I for one will not submit to Islam under any circumstances. I trust the rest of you do not do so either.

    Posted by Roberto on 2006 09 17 at 07:39 AM • permalink

  69. Your fairly hardcore about all this ain’t you C.L., you dump shit on other religions all day long and anyone questions your precious popeliness and you lose the plot mate???

    Feel free to think he walked on water, we don’t all have to tow the line…  Thankfully people in Europe fought and died for that right for the rest of us…

    Posted by casanova on 2006 09 17 at 07:41 AM • permalink

  70. And just in case the Sparrows delete my comment (links in the original):

    Comment by Nilk

    September 17, 2006 @ 9:29 pm

    Ed, religion wasn’t an excuse for the Crusades, it was a reason:

      Pope Urban II called upon the knights of Christendom to push back the conquests of Islam at the Council of Clermont in 1095. The response was tremendous. Many thousands of warriors took the vow of the cross and prepared for war. Why did they do it? The answer to that question has been badly misunderstood. In the wake of the Enlightenment, it was usually asserted that Crusaders were merely lacklands and ne’er-do-wells who took advantage of an opportunity to rob and pillage in a faraway land. The Crusaders’ expressed sentiments of piety, self-sacrifice, and love for God were obviously not to be taken seriously. They were only a front for darker designs.

      During the past two decades, computer-assisted charter studies have demolished that contrivance. Scholars have discovered that crusading knights were generally wealthy men with plenty of their own land in Europe. Nevertheless, they willingly gave up everything to undertake the holy mission. Crusading was not cheap. Even wealthy lords could easily impoverish themselves and their families by joining a Crusade. They did so not because they expected material wealth (which many of them had already) but because they hoped to store up treasure where rust and moth could not corrupt. They were keenly aware of their sinfulness and eager to undertake the hardships of the Crusade as a penitential act of charity and love. Europe is littered with thousands of medieval charters attesting to these sentiments, charters in which these men still speak to us today if we will listen. Of course, they were not opposed to capturing booty if it could be had. But the truth is that the Crusades were notoriously bad for plunder. A few people got rich, but the vast majority returned with nothing.

    As for the comments from the Saudi cleric, well, I’m still waiting for that church in Mecca to be built.

    Also, while on the subject of Saudi Arabia, weren’t they going to be next on the list after Kuwait back around 1990 when Saddam was doing his own invading thing? They were happy enough to have the USA hanging around then.

    Islam is not peaceful. Any religion that declares mutilation of women is a Holy Thing is not peaceful.

    And as for our favourite 2.256, of course there’s no compulsion in religion. Because if you don’t convert, you’re a slave or you’re dead. Your choice, fine by us if you want us to decapitate you.

    I personally prefer 4.34 with its guide to domestic harmony:

      004.034
      YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
      PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
      SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    I have seen all sorts of twistings around this, but basically, it tells me that men are better than women, and if a fellow thinks his woman might be thinking of being disobedient, then he is well within his rights to smack her out.

    I don’t believe that that sort of thinking belongs in our civilisation. Sort of makes a mockery out of all those government ads against domestic violence.

    I’m not going to bother with all the calls to murder infidels where you find them that don’t seem to exist in the New Testament.

    Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 09 17 at 07:43 AM • permalink

  71. #64.  re. Taxi drivers.  I’ve long thought that a coalition of taxi drivers and barbers should be running the country.  Ever seen any of either that didn’t have all the answers?

    Posted by Olrence on 2006 09 17 at 07:48 AM • permalink

  72. Final post for the evening, completely off-topic.
    Just as Tim was getting out of Vegas my boss was heading that way for a business conference. Borrowing the comment someone made on the long open thread I said, ‘Remember, boss, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas - except for herpes.’
    Judging by the look on his face I should probably have stuck with ‘Enjoy your trip.’
    Good night, all.

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 09 17 at 07:49 AM • permalink

  73. Hardcore about hammering ignorant yaps like you, Casanova - yes I am.

    Posted by C.L. on 2006 09 17 at 07:51 AM • permalink

  74. Strange attitude when the Ka’aba is actually a small meteorite.

    It’s not. Mo was telling porkies (saw a meteorite, went out to find it, couldn’t, came back with a lump of rock). People who have seen it say its obsidian or marble.

    Posted by phil_b on 2006 09 17 at 07:52 AM • permalink

  75. I’m so hammered C.L., take it easy on me..  And kiss my arse while your at it…

    Posted by casanova on 2006 09 17 at 07:52 AM • permalink

  76. Save the receiver’s inebriated pillow-talk for a more appropriate venue, Casanova.

    Posted by C.L. on 2006 09 17 at 08:16 AM • permalink

  77. #37 And wouldn’t most of the other Christian churches in Gaza be orthodox?

    Posted by entropy on 2006 09 17 at 08:28 AM • permalink

  78. It’s not. Mo was telling porkies (saw a meteorite, went out to find it, couldn’t, came back with a lump of rock). People who have seen it say its obsidian or marble.

    More likely Mo’ couldn’t tell a meteorite from his ass, and had no idea he was bringing back a piece of earthly rock. Or, even more likely, the lump had been there for centuries, worshipped by pagan cults, and Mo’ just co-opted it for his demon cult.

    Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 09 17 at 08:34 AM • permalink

  79. The fact is the Pope has an enormous amount of influence over billions of people who take what he says as the word of God. It is therefore, so important that he stick to his views and stand by his words. He can help in this war against the Islamists.

    Now that Oriana is dead, Benedict needs to speak up.

    Go Benedict. Sock it to Mohammed. On behalf of all 6 year-old girl-children who get raped by dirty old Islamic men in the name of Mohammed (who married Ashya when she was 6 and raped her when she was 8) speak louder Pope Benedict speak louder.

    Posted by daphne on 2006 09 17 at 08:45 AM • permalink

  80. nos tracto nostrum women amo fimus

    fimus? illud verbum non est.

    Posted by SteveGW on 2006 09 17 at 09:00 AM • permalink

  81. Gunmen shoot an elderly nun in Somalia.

    Posted by Nic on 2006 09 17 at 09:02 AM • permalink

  82. Islamists are pitching this whole sale on the idea that any small criticism of Islam is a mortal attack on its very being. Well, there’s the fine print in the warranty right there.

    I doubt it matters very much if it’s you or me or the Pope who dares to speak. It’s all said and done for the followers of Mohamed.

    Forever the master and the slave.

    Posted by splice on 2006 09 17 at 09:33 AM • permalink

  83. Here’s a quick quiz question. Who described Arabs thus?

    “They were a limited, narrow-minded people, whose inert intellects lay fallow in incurious resignation. Their imaginations were vivid, but not creative. There was so little Arab art in Asia that they could almost be said to have had no art, though their classes were liberal patrons, and had encouraged whatever talents in architecture, or ceramics, or other handicraft their neighbours and helots displayed. Nor did they handle great industries: they had no organizations of mind or body. They invented no systems of philosophy, no complex mythologies. ”

    Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 09 17 at 10:00 AM • permalink

  84. Bobbyb: I know you wrote that in jest, but please see definition 3. English has words that can mean more than one thing. I refuse to change one jot of my language’s uses because of these freaks.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 10:04 AM • permalink

  85. Taliban have been offended?
    So sorry gentlemen, if you wish to, discuss this situation, please, we infidels, will be more than accommodating. You know the trail,

    Posted by BJM on 2006 09 17 at 10:06 AM • permalink

  86. Oh yes, and it would help if people like Ron Liddle wouldn’t write statements like “The Pope should have been aware that Islam always reacts to western allegations that it is not a peaceful religion by mass outbreaks of vituperation, denunciation and acts of jihadic violence”—thereby adding to the idea that the Muslim killtards are somehow justified in their outrageous behavior. I’m sure that the Pope is as aware as we all are of just how crazy they are, but we should not walk on eggshells around these people any more, or change our own customs to soothe their sensibilities. If any Western organization is to bear the blame for setting off Crazy Aunt Muzzie, it’s the BBC and the rest of Our Betters in the Media, who have, with their misreporting, added fuel to the fire. The present and future deaths of Christians at the hands of Muslim killtards will be on their heads, not Benedict’s. I hope they’re happy—and as so many of them hate Christians for childhood memories of having to wear itchy Sunday best clothing and being bored at service for an hour, I’m sure they will be.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 10:12 AM • permalink

  87. C.L. and casanova, take your little love spat to email or I’ll ban you. Seriously.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 10:19 AM • permalink

  88. The first public comment Pope Benedict made was about wine.  He had me at the wine comment.  Let’s hope he really is God’s rottwieller.  A backdown would be disastrous.  We want one Western leader with a spine. 

    BTW has Sheik Hilaly put out a Fatwa against attacking Catholics in Australia or is that too much to expect.  Funny how the Muslim’s alway complain that they are targeted unfairly because of the deeds of a few but have no compunction in targeting the whole Catholic Communion because of the Pope.

    Posted by platey mates on 2006 09 17 at 10:20 AM • permalink

  89. #60 - He may have stolen that idea from Alan Moore’s spectacularly stupid ‘graphic novel’ The Watchmen.

    Posted by Crispytoast on 2006 09 17 at 10:29 AM • permalink

  90. #42 MF - fucking brilliant.

    I just didn’t quite get the reherence to Iemma.  Isn’t he some kind of commie OZ politician?

    Posted by jlc on 2006 09 17 at 10:30 AM • permalink

  91. Now this is the moderation shown by those who denounced the Israeli attacks on Lebanon as disproportionate!

    Posted by platey mates on 2006 09 17 at 10:34 AM • permalink

  92. #81 Nic:

    I see the brave warriors of Mo-Baby shot the nun in the back. Because if you don’t sneak up on those nuns, they’ll detonate or something, huh?

    Posted by SoberHT on 2006 09 17 at 10:35 AM • permalink

  93. And Andrea, my experience is that our news media are filled nowadays with junior pantswetter Jimmy Olsens who, being post-60’s kiddies, never spent an itchy minute in church. I think they just hate the Pope because he reeks of moral authority.

    But I could be wrong.

    Posted by SoberHT on 2006 09 17 at 10:38 AM • permalink

  94. Of course, that should be reference.

    Perview is my fiend. TM

    Posted by jlc on 2006 09 17 at 10:39 AM • permalink

  95. I demand an apology from all of Islam for all the people who have been murdered in the name of the Religion of Peace.  I demand an apology for all the insults (including cartoons) that have been heaped on non-muslims by muslims.  I demand an apology for all the lands and property stolen from their rightful owners by the soldiers of the Religion of Peace.  I demand an apology for being called an “infidel”, when I have of course pledged my fidelity to my God and to my country.  I demand an apology on behalf of all the millions forcibly converted from their own religions to Islam at the point of a sword.

    I say Mohammed was a violent, thieving warlord out to consolidate political power with a made-up cult, and that’s how Islam was born.  I say that Islam is a religion of violence, not a religion of peace.  I say it’s time the West stopped trying to accommodate savages.

    There, I’ve insulted Islam and Mohammed.  Come and get me, jihadi trash.  Oh, that’s right, you can’t because I’m just a name on a computer screen.  You’ll have to make do with shooting elderly nuns, burning churches, and doing other things where you yourselves are sure not to get hurt.

    Cowardly bastards.

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 09 17 at 10:50 AM • permalink

  96. Religion of Peace and Tolerance, my ass!  I second RebeccaH up there, you elderly nun-shooting bastards.

    Posted by ushie on 2006 09 17 at 11:11 AM • permalink

  97. “I got your Allah right here,” emphasizing his point by tugging sharply through his robes at his own scrotum.

    “Pope out.”

    LO-effin’-L.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 09 17 at 11:41 AM • permalink

  98. #97 Dave S: and that’s the whole problem with Jim Treacher, right there.

    I DEMAND that he quit being the ne plus ultra of funny!  Especially on his own site!  It OFFENDS me and makes me feel like a jihadist, all humiliated and cranky and murderous and shit.

    Posted by ushie on 2006 09 17 at 11:55 AM • permalink

  99. They keep demanding apologies because our leaders keep offering them. 

    I still remember the time the media accosted Bush with the accusation that fighting in Afghanistan during Ramadan would be immoral.  Bush shot back, Mohammed fought during Ramadan.

    We need more of that, not McCain’s whining about cold interrogation rooms.

    They smell weakness; and, like all sadists, they use our weakness against us.

    Posted by Patricia on 2006 09 17 at 11:59 AM • permalink

  100. Hurrah for Pope Benedict, how very courageous. I hope that he isn’t intimidated by peaceful islam into recanting.

    Posted by JerryS on 2006 09 17 at 12:19 PM • permalink

  101. Boy, I am sick to death of the religion of perpetual outrage.  They really bring out the devil in me.  I would love to bait them again and again and hope our world leaders do so.  They are caricatures of themselves.

    I’m insulted!  It’s blasphemy!  Issue a fatwa!  Apologize OR ELSE!

    Sheesh.  What a bunch of crybabies and losers.

    Posted by Kathy from Austin on 2006 09 17 at 12:49 PM • permalink

  102. #83 - Didn’t know it but Google overcomes such failures these days.

    Very interesting take from a great soldier.

    Posted by Villeurbanne on 2006 09 17 at 01:40 PM • permalink

  103. 1. Islam is a religion of Peace
    2. Death to Infidels.
    3. Repeat after me: Islam is a religion of Peace. Death to Infidels.

    Hmmm… does that seem logical to you?

    Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 09 17 at 02:11 PM • permalink

  104. Rebecca,
    You should start a website called “I Demand An Apology” and list the daily outrages committed against us by them.

    Posted by Patricia on 2006 09 17 at 02:49 PM • permalink

  105. Australia’s Andrew Robb has something to say to your Muslims today. 

    “We live in a world of terrorism where evil acts are being regularly perpetrated in the name of your faith,” Mr Robb said at the Sydney conference.

    “And because it is your faith that is being invoked as justification for these evil acts, it is your problem.

     

    Go, Mr. Robb.  Now, where is my president and his support for this kind of thinking?

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 09 17 at 03:00 PM • permalink

  106. On Harry Shearer’s weekly radio show, he has a regular feature called “Apologies of the Week.” I imagine this one will make it.

    Posted by Jim Treacher on 2006 09 17 at 03:01 PM • permalink

  107. #104,  Good idea, Patricia, but there are already so many good sites (Little Green Footballs, and The Gates of Vienna to name two) that are already keeping a tally and not letting them sweep their offenses under the rug, I couldn’t possibly compete.

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 09 17 at 03:03 PM • permalink

  108. If Islam’s “defenders” are in the service of such a noble cause, why do they have to wear masks?  Why do they sneak around and kidnap defenseless people?  Why do they have to make undercover “snuff” videos? Why do they use car bombs and other chickenshit devices?  I mean seriously, if you believe you are a “freedom fighter” put on a uniform, or if you are a politician, walk out to one of the many microphones the media has on offer 24/7 and stand up for what you believe. Don’t hide in the dark or behind your women and children wearing the same thing they do.  Grow some balls and tell us out in the open what your grievances are, or take the field of battle and fight for them like men.

    Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 09 17 at 03:12 PM • permalink

  109. Hey Islam:  Grow the fuck up.

    Posted by Tex Lovera on 2006 09 17 at 03:21 PM • permalink

  110. There will come a day when Muslims will not be able to answer Islam’s critics with threats of violence.

    When that day comes, are they going to have any response available to them at all?

    I suspect that the answer is no, and that Muslim clerics know it.  So, for the time being, they give the only response they have.

    Posted by 2dogs on 2006 09 17 at 03:35 PM • permalink

  111. #101.

    “I am sick to death of the religion of perpetual outrage.”

    They got it from us—by careful study of the way our own “minorities”, “victims” and even anti-social elements have managed their pieces of power.

    Constant carping has worked very well for these types—with the help of the MSM, it goes without saying.

    Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2006 09 17 at 04:23 PM • permalink

  112. I watched the movie Swordfish last night, haven’t even thought about it for a few years. Has an interesting idea in its premise: for every Western that gets killed, we kill ten Arabs. They blow up a bus, we blow up ten buses. They destroy a church, we destroy Riyadh.

    I’m not saying we should do it - but I wonder what the reaction would be from the Islamonutters?

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 05:43 PM • permalink

  113. I meant Westerner

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 05:45 PM • permalink

  114. Slightly OT: There’s a great little movie out there that speaks perfectly to our current situation- so much so that I’m a bit surprised that it isn’t more of a touchstone in the sane West. That movie is (wait for it) Mars Attacks!

    Most of the movie is a satire of appeasement- the insane lengths people will go to not to take offense. Two classic scenes:

    1) The Martians utterly destroy the Earth’s welcoming delegation. In response, the Earthlings theorize that the doves that we released during the ceremony offended the Martians, and so we try again by inviting them to a joint session of Congress.

    2) Towards the end of the movie, some Martians are chasing some Earthlings while the Martians are saying, through a translation device, “We come in peace!” All the while the Martians are shooting up the place and killing people. (The current news of Muslims demanding that the Pope take back the bit about Muslims being violent or else they’ll be, you know, violent, reminded me of this.)

    If you haven’t seen it, or if you haven’t seen it in a number of years, a rental or download is worth it.

    I have little doubt that the creators of the film would disavow this interpretation. If so, screw them.

    Posted by Brian O'Connell on 2006 09 17 at 05:56 PM • permalink

  115. I just love how they have the shits with the pope for linking violence to islam and yet the first thing they do is threaten the vatican with violence

    Posted by Killaette on 2006 09 17 at 06:00 PM • permalink

  116. To clarify the quote given by the pope, is from the “Orthodox” Christian church (split) The medieval text, if we want to get alittle anal/technical about it. Still the Public relations propaganda education system by the Imans is wonderful example of the violence of Islam and how it cannot be intergrated into west.

    I think the Imans are practising world wide holy war, ( covertly covering it up)it’s like the cartoon dabarkle all over again. They’re unaware of it, of the propaganda.

    As for…..

    With the Pope’s effigy burning in India and Pakistan, and Islamic groups in Somalia and Iraq threatening to kill the Catholic Church’s head, Australian Muslim leaders urged restraint.

    Ameer Ali, chairman of the Muslim Community Reference Group organising committee, said Australian Muslims had a right to feel “disappointed”.

    hmmmmmm.. It must be because of all the funding and ka-fuffle they had at the Jews/Israel protesting with those dodgy plackards. Islam is a great economy, and Islam you hurt a nun, it sums the violence with women.

    Islam the dumb dumb religion.

    Posted by 1.618 on 2006 09 17 at 06:06 PM • permalink

  117. #70

    They should simplify the rules and go straight for the scrourging. I mean, since when did admonishing a woman or sending her to the other bedroom work?

    Posted by Dminor on 2006 09 17 at 06:09 PM • permalink

  118. We could have a pretend we’re sooooooooo sorry post here for the Islamics.

    Let’s have a public holiday and call it the West’s National world wide Sorry Islam day for calling you Islamic rednecks and Jihad jiggers.

    Posted by 1.618 on 2006 09 17 at 06:11 PM • permalink

  119. #70 and your reference to looting and pillaging during the crusades.

    Looting was still quite acceptable amongst European armies during the Napoleonic War - although Wellington usually tried to put a lid on it.  Looting a city after a seige was the reward the footsloggers who had to endure storming the ramparts.

    I’m not sure when looting was phased out by Western Armies, but there are plenty of accounts of it happening in WWII.  The Russians certainly looted all of East Germany, including the factories.  I think it died in the arse around Vietnam - probably because the peasants didn’t have anything worth stealing.  And the troops were reasonably well paid.  You have to remember that in the old days, pay was bad, infrequent and always behind.  The troops would indulge in a bit of looting in order to make up for the bad or short pay.  Napoleon pretty much funded all his conquests by loot.

    Anyway, if looting is so bad, why did Saddam allow his army to totally loot Kuwait?  And that was only 15 years ago.  To say that the Crusades were motivated by loot is to somehow ignore looting in every other war from the time of the sack of Jericho to Kuwait in 1991.

    Of course I forgot the looting that took place in Iraq after the Yanks booted Saddam out.  By the Iraqis of course - not the Yanks.

    Posted by mr creosote on 2006 09 17 at 06:30 PM • permalink

  120. A hardline cleric linked to Somalia’s powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to “hunt down” and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam ...

    Look you Islamist bastards, a lot of people are getting mighty fed up with you assholes. I just hope that there are enough people, with enough balls, to end your bullshit, NOW! Yesterday would be soon enough for me.

    Bring it.

    You friggin cultists need to be fed to mad dogs. Bring it MF’s, bring it.

    Posted by El Cid on 2006 09 17 at 06:35 PM • permalink

  121. El Cid’s comment (#120) is best read with a Samuel L Jackson-type accent.

    Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 09 17 at 06:50 PM • permalink

  122. 121.

    Needs a “great wrath and Fuuuurious anger” thrown in there as well.

    Time to get all old testament on yo’ asses!

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 17 at 07:29 PM • permalink

  123. I watched the movie Swordfish last night,

    That’s funny, watching Swordfish doesn’t leave me thinking about international security issues, mostly I’m just left thinking about Halle Berry abd her two lovely friends.

    Posted by Shaky Barnes on 2006 09 17 at 07:31 PM • permalink

  124. The Pope faulted the Muhammad for exhorting his followers to spread Islam by the sword. The documentation that M. did so is verified by documentation and by the followers of Islam themselves. So where’s the insults, what’s so controversial about it? So yesterday a spokeswoman for the Musharraf diapensation in Pakistan said, (See Wall Street Journal, yesterday.) “Anyone who describes Islam as a religion intolerant encourages violence”. I’d say that wasn’t a very Christian attitude. I’d say, in fact, that it’s a religion of mad dogs and their bitches.

    Posted by stats on 2006 09 17 at 07:35 PM • permalink

  125. The BBC appears to have been quickest off the mark, to send around the world in many languages, including Arabic, Turkish, Farsi, Urdu, and Malay

    I heard the BBC admit that they were the ones spreading this information around the world. The commentator stated that once the information reaches Muslim countries it “takes on a life of it’s own”.

    That admission shows that the BBC knows exactly what it is doing and the likely outcome of it’s actions.

    The BBC and the ABC need to be commercialised NOW!

    Posted by Bonmot on 2006 09 17 at 07:35 PM • permalink

  126. Oriana Fallaci, on viewing the cringing of the Leftist Americans,Italians, et al elites at the fury of the Muslim shits , et al, cried, “Enough merde! I’m outta here!” (WSJ) And so passed from this planet one of its few sane voices, a soul that will be cherished and guarded by Our Savior, even though she often had Words with Him. Rest well, Dear Fallaci, but please persist in helping us despite the idiots that suffocate us.

    Posted by stats on 2006 09 17 at 07:43 PM • permalink

  127. In today’s news—

    Clerics ‘teach secret jihad’

    Islamic clerics in Sydney and Melbourne are using covert tactics to preach martyrdom and jihad to young followers, recruiting them under the guise of classes teaching the Koran.

    Singapore-based terrorism analyst Rohan Gunaratna told The Australian that despite their denials and stronger terror laws, religious leaders in the two cities continued to preach violence to impressionable followers, though they now did it away from their mainstream teachings. He said the clerics’ influence on young believers increased the risk of a terrorist attack in Australia. “We have seen a number of Australian clerics preaching jihad and martyrdom,” Dr Gunaratna said.

    “The most likely form of attack in Australia is a suicide attack for jihad. You will need to make arrests in time.”

    Clive Williams, who runs a terrorism and counter-terrorism program at the Australian Defence Force Academy, said young Muslims were being recruited for jihad through “Koran classes”. “They are doing it differently now,” he said.

    The Australian

    Posted by walterplinge on 2006 09 17 at 07:51 PM • permalink

  128. And if you want so to see a cartoon that will see The Australian’s premises bombed have a look at Bill Leak on the opinion page:

    “Man of peace to see you, Your Holiness”

    Posted by walterplinge on 2006 09 17 at 07:57 PM • permalink

  129. Indeed so, walterplinge.
    And points to Leak for doing it. I wouldn’t have thought he had it in him to be so unfriendly towards Muslims.

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 09 17 at 08:09 PM • permalink

  130. A little off-topic.

    Am I alone in thinking that expecting cultural sensitivity from troops serving in a war zone is expecting a bit too much?

    The videos - and some photographs - have been deplored as culturally insensitive. One shows a serviceman holding a gun to the head of a man in Arab dress while another features a soldier demonstrating his quick-draw prowess.

    What is this? A sensitive new age army?

    Posted by geoff on 2006 09 17 at 08:18 PM • permalink

  131. Maybe leak had had the penny drop. The cartoonist Jihad was a bit close to home, so this gives him the chance to show what he might have liked to say.
    Anyone around able to link to similar cartoons or editorials form their part of the world??

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 17 at 08:18 PM • permalink

  132. geoff

    Heaven forbid that we hurt anyone’s cultural feelings.

    Posted by kae on 2006 09 17 at 08:40 PM • permalink

  133. Not a “love spat”, Andrea. More a case of me objecting to the ‘Islamists are bad and so are we’ rubbish - which , from Casanova, extended to outright historical lies and at least one Explain Yourself interrogation of a Jewish commenter on the other thread.

    Go ahead and ban me as soon and as seriously as you like.

    Posted by C.L. on 2006 09 17 at 09:07 PM • permalink

  134. #130. Soliders mucking round with guns is a breach of discipline. It should be punished with a few hours stoppage of leave or extra work.

    What the Hell is wrong with us that we make it some kind of international incident?

    Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 09 17 at 09:15 PM • permalink

  135. The Pope finds your lack of faith….disturbing

    At one time the Pope was the premire bulwark against militant Islam…would that he was so again.

    If he can’t be, I guess it has fallen to us.

    Posted by trainer on 2006 09 17 at 09:28 PM • permalink

  136. Oriana spelt out the kind of rhetoric the west needs to initiate the mindset we need to defend ourselves form the mindless barbarians who seek to destroy our civilisation. We need desperately to get ANGRY!
    We don’t need headlines such as “Pope says sorry to Muslims” but “Islamic Hordes threaten Pope assasination”
    We don’t need the mediocrity od peacetime apologist leaders such as Chamberlain, Halifax or Jimmy carter. we now need Winston Churchills who will show to islam that the west is in earnest.
    Gen Patton put it this way
    ‘The language of war is not polite. War is hell. It is difficult to make our fine American youth understand that the enemy wants to kill him.’

    Posted by davo on 2006 09 17 at 09:41 PM • permalink

  137. A.N. Wilson in a leader in The Telegraph (UK)—

    The truth is that barbaric attacks happen weekly. No wonder that Benedict favours an urgent dialogue with Muslims on the subject of religious violence rather than the usual touchy-feely exchange of compliments.

    Well he has started a dialogue now albeit not quite in the way that he intended. And it is essential that it continue. A self-abasing apology from the Pope would have postponed that discussion yet again.

    We suspect that Western public opinion is not displeased that Benedict has said the unsayable. Now it is time for other churchmen to tell their Muslim counterparts that, in addition to dishing out criticism, they must learn how to take it.

    Posted by walterplinge on 2006 09 17 at 09:43 PM • permalink

  138. #130 Gosh, soldiers photographed posing with guns.  What’s the world coming to?  (Their mistake was not being David Hicks). For years, the Australian MSM have been slavering for their very own Abu Ghraib, and this is (hopefully) as close as they’re going to get: they’re going to make a meal of it.  One news commentator tut-tutted that the videos showed soldiers ‘fraternizing’ with Iraqis.  Er, isn’t that a good thing?  One of the images appears to show a soldier handing a kiddie a cigarette.  Forget about a court-martial - when the nanny state police get their hands on that poor sod, it’ll be a firing squad and no blindfold.

    Posted by cuckoo on 2006 09 17 at 09:45 PM • permalink

  139. C.L.: well you need to quit rising to his bait. It is clear that casanova is not going to change his tune because of your arguments (or anyone else’s), and in fact is fast approaching troll status. Don’t follow him there. At least don’t do it here.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 09:49 PM • permalink

  140. And the “love spat” I was irritated by was comments 69, 73, 75, and 76. When he said “I’m so hammered” that should have been your signal to ignore him.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 09:51 PM • permalink

  141. I forgot to add: not the reasonable commenting you were doing earlier, that is.

    Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 09 17 at 09:52 PM • permalink

  142. Leaky Bill’s been a bit out of step with mainstream lefty dogma when it comes to the ROP- I’d say he’s been taken off Phatty’s Seasonal Gift Man card list.

    I await some huffing and puffing from Keyster Trad about the Pope’s intolerance, and the failure of JWH etc to criticise the old nazi for his frothing anti-Islamic diatribe, with same being widely reported (approvingly) by the ABC, accompanied by some knowing head-nodding by Red Kezza.

    I can’t wait for the wacky gags by Clarke and Dawe on Thursady night as well, which should go some way towards placating the perpetually indignant (or not, as comedy is probably as evil as music, dancing, idolatory and the female orgasm).

    Fuck you, and the goat you road in on.

    Posted by Habib on 2006 09 17 at 09:57 PM • permalink

  143. 114# I often see Muslims as alien freaks from an evil galaxy, Mars attacks, the Daleks seem to mirror the violent Muslim demeanor.  We know now that in the early years of the twenty first century this world was being watched closely by strange intelligences lower than man’s, and yet as mortal as his own. We know now that as human beings busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinized and studied, and plotted against.
    With infinite complacence people went to and fro over the earth about their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion over this small, spinning fragment of solar driftwood which, by chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark mystery of Time and Space.
    Yet Muslim minds that are lesser than the beasts in the jungle, intellects narrow, sweaty and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.

    Posted by Howzat on 2006 09 17 at 09:59 PM • permalink

  144. #119 If looting is a military tradition, I suppose we should be grateful that the UN peacekeepers only rape children and goats.

    Posted by mr magoo on 2006 09 17 at 10:05 PM • permalink

  145. The way the “Muslim street” explodes at the slightest dissing of the Faith and the Proph mskes you suspect they know the whole thing’s a house of cards and are scared that if some outsider breathes on it too hard it will just fall over.

    Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 09 17 at 10:28 PM • permalink

  146. Heard some Imam-or-other on the radio this morning tut-tutting the violence, but trying to understand: “you must understand, when people are angry, they behave without restraint..”  Yes, we have people like that in the West, too: we call them ‘children’.

    Posted by cuckoo on 2006 09 17 at 10:38 PM • permalink

  147. Am I the only one that thinks we need to have a payback on the media types including BBC? Protest outside their homes, calling them killers and troublemakers?

    THEY are the ones who are causing thsi shit. Can’t blame the headchoppers for acting as their natures dictate - oh wait…

    Posted by ChrisPer on 2006 09 17 at 10:52 PM • permalink

  148. Yes, we have people like that in the West, too: we call them ‘children’.

    The Arab/Muslim mind is childish in the extreme.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 09 17 at 10:57 PM • permalink

  149. “We will complete an investigation,’’ he said.  ``And then, put simply, I will be asking a question why these soldiers should remain in the army.

    Army chief Lieutehant General Peter Leahy

    If he’s already made up his mind what he is going to do, why bother with the investigation?

    Sounds to me like the investigation should be into the Army’s concept of justice for frontline soldiers putting their lives on the line who happen to be involved in a minor breach of discipline at worst.

    Posted by geoff on 2006 09 17 at 11:08 PM • permalink

  150. Not a bad article for a read.

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

    Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 09 17 at 11:36 PM • permalink

  151. #36, the cry was,“Catholic dogs sitting on logs eating gizzards out of frogs!”
    Where’s me spear?

    Posted by waussie on 2006 09 18 at 12:37 AM • permalink

  152. Good to see you can sum up the interchange so objectively Andrea…  :o)

    After you tell us to stop, he comes back and attacks me some more and I’m the one made out to be the troll, thank you for that…  :o)

    The point you make about neither he or I changing each other’s opinion is a valid one…

    Posted by casanova on 2006 09 18 at 12:50 AM • permalink

  153. 146 - Yes, we have people like that in the West, too: we call them ‘children’.

    And if they’re not physically children they are generally charged with an offence. If convicted they are often compelled to undertake anger management training.

    Posted by walterplinge on 2006 09 18 at 01:34 AM • permalink

  154. I am very disappointed about the BBC spreading falsehoods that put people’s lives in danger.

    This is usually the job of the ABC. Were they asleep at the wheel or what?

    Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 09 18 at 02:39 AM • permalink

  155. #127

    To teach the Koran is to preach jihad, violance, misogony, and totalitarian hate.

    Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 09 18 at 10:50 AM • permalink

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