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SHOCKING STRICTNESS
Britain’s Channel 4 reports a growing Texas-wide Muslim movement:
George W Bush may be backed by Christian fundamentalists but in his home state of Texas, Islam is the latest big draw. The Bible belt is transferring its allegiance to the Qur’an because, for many erstwhile Christians, believe it or not, the church is too liberal.
I’d believe it. As Andrew Bolt noted last week: “The fact is that despite the hysteria over the rise of Pentecostal churches and the election of one senator from the Christian-conservative Family First party, the church elites are as still as furiously of the Left as are the elites of all our cultural institutions. And just as out of touch.” Back to the Channel 4 piece:
Women are also becoming followers of Muhamed. Yasmine (previously Mindy) arranged a marriage for herself and has three children. Islam, she says is ‘the solution to a lot of the prevailing evils: drugs, adultery, fornication …’
Note to Kinky Friedman: kiss this voting bloc goodbye.
David is the only white Muslim in his little town on Route 66. He believes his new religion makes him a better American and, far from undermining liberties, gives the individual more rights. He had an arranged marriage and his wife, who was born a Muslim, was shocked by the strictness with which he insists they live their lives.
Arranged marriages and shocking strictness imposed by your husband. Yay for more individual rights!
There are 400,000 Muslims in Texas alone and Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA. Since 9/11 there have been more converts to Islam than ever.
Americans—conservative Americans—turning to Islam? Cue the global left’s sudden awakening to Islam’s sexism, intolerance, homophobia, and other anti-liberal failings.
Islam, says Eric, ‘is everything I wanted Christianity to be’.
Yeah, except for the part where Jesus Christ is your Lord and savior. Nobody, in or out of the church, is making people take drugs, commit adultery or fornicate, Eric, and you were already free to pray as many times as day as you wished (even during football games). You sound like a control freak. Islam can have you.
I do not believe this crap for a moment. Committed Christians do not abandon Christ for Mohammed, not matter how liberal the organized church becomes. What BS.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 10 07 at 04:43 PM • permalinkDavid is the only white Muslim in his little town on Route 66
I’m pissed because this pus head besmriched our fabled highway. For that alone, he should be sent to Gitmo.
How many of these so-called converts are exhibitionistic nutjobs who’ve been shopping around for religion, and will get tired of Islam sooner or later? Only then they’ll have to leave town, because, while you can drop other religions as easily as changing your pants, you leave Islam at risk of your life.
This article is just leftist garbage. This is why:
The left is slowly waking to the obvious odiousness of islamo-fascism. But they are still in thrall to multi-culturalism and moral relativism, therefore a “christo-fascist” scarecrow is needed to justify their statements about islamo-fascism.
Read such phrases today as “all religious fascism, be it islamic or christian”.
What better way to justify this position than find right wing christians (christo-fascists) converting to islam.
Read the article carefully. How many actual, verifiable, facts are there? This is just propaganda.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 07 at 05:43 PM • permalinkIslam has been popular among a certain segment of the population, especially young black males, for a long time, at least since the 60s. Supposedly the draw is the all-Muslims-are-brothers-regardless-of-race cant, but I am of the opinion that the real reasons the religion is so attractive is the fact that 1) it lacks all that stuff about being humble and turning the other cheek, 2) it’s followers are not, at least in the US, mostly white people, and 3), none of that bummer stuff about Jesus dying for humanity’s sins—according to Muslims Jesus actually pulled a fast one and only made those silly Romans think they were crucifying him. The one major complaint I hear from people who have left the Christian churches of their childhoods is how they didn’t like “being made to feel guilty” about everything. Part of this is simply negligent teaching, but most of this is the insistent blare coming from our own popular culture that we should only be made to have funfunfun! and never have to feel bad about anything. Most of my friends have either become atheists or pagans as a result, but people with less ability to control themselves will seek other supposedly sturdy walls when all else fails them and Islam, like any other cult, holds out the promise of self-control to certain weak minds.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 07 at 06:16 PM • permalinkIt seems like I’ve read a couple articles over the past year about former Christians (almost always women) or nonbelievers becoming Muslim. The article is always very postive and upbeat stressing how good it has been for the convert. The fact of the matter is that I’m a Christian and even if I feel like my church has become to liberal, I am not giving up Christ. If the church fails you, Christ never will. Okay, enough preaching.
I posted above, but this idea about Americans becoming Muslim has really gotten to me lately. We live near an army fort, and I’ve seen half a dozen ladies at the Wal-Mart wearing the full Muslim regalia. I can tell that these women (African-American) are born and bred in the U.S. and I want to just go up and ask them what the heck they are doing. Then there’s hubby walking behind wearing shorts and tennis shoes, all comfortable. It just really rubs me the wrong way. I can see how to some men the idea is appealing, but for the women?
#16 Good points, Andrea. I think the bit his wife, who was born a Muslim, was shocked by the strictness with which he insists they live their lives.
tells us a lot. First, if you are ‘born Moslem’, you can’t hope to escape it without serious problems, since it really is a closed cult. Converts in Christian countries don’t get this point at first, I believe.
Secondly, the radicalising and new aggression of Islam is growing for many reasons, one being that a perceived loss of strength of Western Christianity gives Moslem radicals encouragement.
It was Billy Graham no less, [a ‘fundamentalist’ and so a morally equivalent villain to loathing leftists] who said in my hearing ‘You are not born a Christian in a Christian country, just as you are not a car because you were born in a garage.’
This is a vital difference, a liberal concept in Christianity.Somebody at Chanel 4 can’t multiply.
The population of (yea-ha!) Texas is 22 million, according to the latest estimates. And the Islamic population is estimated at .2%
So that’s 44,000 Muslims, not 400,000.You multiply by .002 not by .02
from:
adherents.com
and
census dataHeck there’s more than forty-four thousand ‘57 Chevy’s in Texas.
Posted by lumberjack on 2006 10 07 at 06:56 PM • permalinkladcraig: I think I can explain the atttraction of the all-covered-up life to female Muslim converts. Many of them come from lifestyles or cultures where women are basically treated like prostitutes that don’t get paid. Life in the lower classes in much of the US is unfortunately shot through with sexual abuse to women like bleu cheese with mold. I’ve read interviews with Hispanic women who converted to Islam who complained that before they were constantly having to be “sexy” and always being harrassed by males, that men were unfaithful, and so on. These women really weren’t all that devout in their church before, though most of them were Catholic. When the women converted and started wearing the sacks it was a way of saying “Back the fuck off.” And in most cases it works.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 07 at 07:08 PM • permalinkconservative Americans—turning to Islam?
In the author’s wet dream, maybe - but not in the real world. (And I’m not even Christian.)
I call BULLSHIT on that one. Real believing Christians don’t give up Jesus because other people aren’t conservative enough. What a load of crap.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2006 10 07 at 07:25 PM • permalink11 paco
#9: Quick O/T congratulations to El Cid for tracking down Texas Bob! Great sleuthing!Very glad to discover that he’s still with us.
paco, I’d like to take complete credit, but the initial email I sent to Texas Bob, I sent on 9/11/06. The miracle was, he may have received the vibes from last nights posts and answered this AM.
I really was stunned and damn near...well check that shaking in my boots before opening the reply...as all there was in the subject line was RE: Texas Bob. I had no fore knowledge of his email.
A higher power prevailed.
I’m thrilled the man is OK AND I gave him extra incentive to make sure he stays that way. In my reply to him, I proudly boasted that the Texas Bob Beer Fund, is now up to, $25 whole U.S. dollars. He’ll be tickled with the 10 cases of Old Milwaukee Light, that money buys. Hey, good stuff ain’t cheap...LOL.
you win a free Detective Paco fedora, badge, and pack of Camels (cigarettes, that is, not an Arab dowry).
So, ummmm, do I still get to keep your gracious gifts?...:).
This sounds like a case for Father Zakaria Boutros.
The population of (yea-ha!) Texas is 22 million, according to the latest estimates. And the Islamic population is estimated at .2%
So that’s 44,000 Muslims, not 400,000.No doubt you’re correct—there cannot be anything remotely like 400,000 moslems in TX, or I’d be seeing some evidence of them. And I live where all the Texas weirdos live.
Posted by Shaky Barnes on 2006 10 07 at 07:43 PM • permalink(Emphasis theirs)
Islam, says Eric, ‘is everything I wanted Christianity to be’. His mother has found it hard to come to terms with her son’s conversion and believes he will return to the Christian faith: ‘Then he will be a dynamic preacher.’
As in, constantly on the run from Muslims who want to kill him for apostasy?
I live in Dearborn, which has a large Muslim population, and I tend to drive around the whole metro area a lot for work, including Detroit.
Since 9/11, I can count on two hands the number of white converts I’ve seen and heard who were obviously Muslim. Certainly I’ve seen more blacks, but nothing that has raised my eyebrows. Conversely, I’ve run into a number of Arab women who are Muslim, but don’t wear a hijab. And an uncountable number of Arab women who do wear the hijab and reeeeeeeeeeal tight pants. :)
If Islam is the fastest growing religion, which I doubt, it’s only because it’s practically non-existent in America 20 years ago. I’m of the belief that anyone who converts to anything was probably an idiot to begin with.
Yes, El Cid, thanks for your efforts and the news about TBob. He’s been on my mind alot lately. Hope his emergency worked out to the good.
10ish years ago he’d have been a Branch Davidian.
And 30ish years ago, he’d have been in Jonestown.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 10 07 at 08:32 PM • permalink#31 SteveGW
If your country is attacked - and continues to be attacked - by people whose explicit ideology is Islam, what sort of person responds by converting to Islam?
Malignant narcissists, sociopaths, and mysogynist control freaks.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 10 07 at 08:40 PM • permalink#33 Norman
Malignant narcissists, sociopaths, and mysogynist control freaks.
And the empathetic multiculturalists:
Consider the case of Jean-Michelle Ajon, the subject of a 2002 article in the women’s fashion magazine Marie Claire. Raised a Catholic in New York City, Ajon had been thinking about converting to Islam during the summer before 9/11. After the attacks, a remark that she overheard while working in Manhattan--"We should bomb everyone, the whole Arab world"--strengthened her resolveIn my experience, a lot (not the majority) of Fundamentalist PaleoCon “Christians” don’t take the “Christ” bit terribly seriously. They’re more into the parts of Leviticus that they approve of, ignoring the inconvenient bits. They don’t like Jews, and have little use for N… people of colour. Gays should be shot on sight, and the wimminfolk kept barefoot, pregnant and happy.
They have a smug, tight little community, where everything and averyone is in their place. Kuche, Kinder, Kirche. To them, Islam has considerable appeal.
I’m not talking about total nutters like the Westboro Baptist Church, I’m talking about a rather larger group that has genuinely Fascist leanings. Oddly enough, most of them are good, honourable people. Just a bit.. Paleolithic. Those who believe Evolution is a Godless Commie Plot to subvert the moral fabric of society, yet if your house was on fire, would be the first to come a-running with a hose and buckets.
The Right has its insane - sorry, “reality-challenged” faction, just as the Left does, and we shouldn’t deny their existence just because we’re embarressed by them. The difference is that on the Left, they’re a sizeable and vocal minority, not marginalised. The Lunatics have taken over the Asylum.
I think it more likely that these crypto-Fascists (GOD I hate Jargon, but it genuinely fits) will gravitate more towards the Left than that the Left will reform. Because a large minority of the Left has become objectively pro-Fascist, as Orwell put it. Just look at the opposition to the Euston manifesto.
All this hooey about Islam being the “fastest growing religion in America (and the world) is utter nonsense. The numbers bandied about are complete fiction: the actual Muslim population of the US was estimated by the Census Bureau to be 1.8 million (as of 2001), and this number is roughly similar to what other government agencies have put out. The Muslim Brotherhood front group, The Council on American-Islamic Relations has spun a rather fantastical fairy tale since then:
In 2002, they claimed that there were 3 million Muslims in the US.
In 2003, they claimed 4 million.
In 2004, they claimed 5 million.
In 2005, they claimed 6 million.
In 2006, they are now claiming “nearly 7 million, more than the ‘supposed’ Jewish population of America”. They are also trying to insist that it is, you guessed it, RACIST! that the “Jewish Lobby” has such an “overwhelming influence” on American Foreign Policy, when they represent a smaller percentage of the US population, than does Islam.
Considering the amount of Mexican and Central American immigration into the US (more than 20 million in the last 20 years, 90% of which is illegal - or “undocumented”, as some prefer), it is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that Roman Catholicism is by far the fastest growing religious group in the country.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 10 07 at 09:01 PM • permalink#32 Kyda,
My brother’s college Rugby team used to sing a song called “Jonestown” (to the tune of Petula Clark’s ‘Downtown’). I can’t recall the whole thing but it began:
When you’re down and you’re broke
and your religion’s a joke
Who can you turn to then? Jim Jones!There was also a verse that began:
Congressman Ryan, on a mission of spying,
Why won’t he drink with Jim? Jim Jones!Anyone else know the song? Help us out.
Well, I’ve spent time in Texas and I’m pretty sure there are more than 400,000 religious maniacs there, adding up all brands.
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 10 07 at 09:16 PM • permalinkThe United States traces its national origin to the declaration by 13 British colonies in 1776 that they were free and independent states.
Now it appears that Texas Islamics would like to free itself and become a Sharia Law State in America
please stand for the new Islamic American anthem.
Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro’ the perilous fight’
O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.
And the rockets red glare, the Terrorists bombs bursting in air with our loved Hezz-bol-air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there and in our Brothers and Sisters Islamic care.
Oh, say, does that Moon-star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the Texan Islamic brave?rolls eyes
The statistical error in overrepresenting the Muslim population in Texas is an understandable mistake, lefties are often confused.
After all it seems that the Democrats are not exactly clear as to what their own Army looks like.
#43: Haw! Glad to see that the Democrats are so broadminded that they’re worrying about Canadian troops. I wonder how they see our enemies; perhaps something like this?
Re #43, yeah, I saw that, 91B30. I guess all uniforms look the same to them, eh?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 07 at 10:15 PM • permalinkBTW, the always excellent Martin Kramer has some interesting thoughts on Islam and Fascism .
#46 Don’t you just love the Lt-Col’s comment about the attack:
"It was certainly co-ordinated – but co-ordinated in a particularly Arab way."
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 07 at 10:43 PM • permalinkThe old ‘What-about-the-Christians?’ trick
(1) handily implies racism without the inconvenience of honest accusation
(2) minimises Islamist outrages by fake equivalence
(3) licenses fashionable contempt for religion, particularly Christianity, while neatly exempting Islam as a ‘culture’ or even more spuriously, a ‘race’.Of course, there is also, SMH-style, ‘The Cone of Silence’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_silenceMuslim taxis refuse to carry guide dogs
Muslim taxi drivers are refusing to transport guide dogs and passengers carrying alcohol.See it’s now introduced to australia, they’re changing it world wide.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/061007/2/10ttm.html?f=mv
Please please mumma mufti halilailfilf let the doo goody doggies have an islamite ride in a taxi?
p.s. so there would be no guide dog association if we were muslim nation, and we’d still be riding square rocks…
It’s amazing the third world mindset diseasing the city of melbourne through migration nut heads old fashion koranic views, however it’s amazing how they respond to our treatment in medicine when they need it or our funding when they’d have nothing it their pissing countries.
Let’s lie to them all the time, and stuff them up culturally this is our new tactic..
Don’;t forget rum a dumb sue the leader for negligence if they are dehydrated and crash into you.
Crickey instead of colonel sanders it will you’ll soon see Sheiks and Halal lamb-ic burgers popping up around America.
They want the names they don’t want to come up with any inventions to change the world.
oh.. sing song time..
1 2 3
islam the dumb dumb religion
islam it’s dumb and it’s literally true,
islam the dumb dumb religion
islam it’s coming to get YOU!This sounds like one of those stories containing a tiny kernel of truth that some European news agency has siezed upon and extrapolated wildly to proffer a gift of schadenfreude to its (probably) anti-American audience. Using this method, it’s quite easy to go from “a small rise in the number of Texan Muslims plus two freaks we found who converted from Christianity to Islam” to “Christians turning to Islam in droves, Texas headed for imminent caliphate status”.
I don’t know who the bigger idiot is - the journo who dreams this rubbish up or the people that believe it.
Posted by James Waterton on 2006 10 07 at 11:15 PM • permalinkI don’t know who the bigger idiot is - the journo who dreams this rubbish up or the people that believe it.
...and I think less and less are willing to believe it. Although for some reason, those who worship the check-out line tabloids will always be with us.
AMERICA’S LATEST ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS — VAMPIRES - Sun
SATAN CAPTURED BY GIs IN IRAQ! — WWN
Demons influencing presidential policy! — WWN
Was Dubya’s granddad a grave robber? BUSH FAMILY STOLE GERONIMO’S SKULL! - says researcher — SUN
...and my personal favorite:
New religion proclaims: God is a flying spaghetti monster! — SUN
Makes as much sense as Islam.
Americans—conservative Americans—turning to Islam?
Probably not. Given that Islam is the religion of choice in the US prison system I’d be betting the bulk of these Texas Muslims are jail-house converts. This is a type who is also into control and violence - Islam suits ‘em down to the ground.
Posted by walterplinge on 2006 10 07 at 11:32 PM • permalink#56...ummmmmm, Hi?
How about Michele Malkin getting “banned” from YouTube? Crikey!
Google buying YouTube? Co-incidence? I think not!
Still, you can see jihadi snuff flicks, recruiting films and his-ball’s propaganda with even signing up.
Just joined her group “Conservative YouTubers”.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 07 at 11:38 PM • permalink"Then he will be a dynamic preacher.”
As opposed to many other Islamics, who are simply dynamite at it.
Posted by MikeTheLibrarian on 2006 10 08 at 12:20 AM • permalink#36 See? Its because of the gravlox with which the “Jewish Lobby” approaches political discussion...who can say “No”?
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 08 at 12:21 AM • permalink# 31 It’s that whole “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” thing.
Of course for many men, ‘if you can’t beat ‘em, don’t marry ‘em” may also hold true.
Posted by carpefraise on 2006 10 08 at 12:26 AM • permalinkIf you’re a Christian man these days you’re a wuss. The Promise Keepers did a little bit of push-back some years ago and how did the feminists howl! Christianity is all turn the other cheek and being humble… almost metrosexual… because Christian churches have tried to make things so attractive that they’ve taken out or de-emphasized at the hard stuff. And quite a lot of the fundamentalists, even if they aren’t doing “Christianity-lite” are heavily into emotional expressions and “victory” and all those good feelings. If God is in your life you’re supposed to get victory over your vices without the hard work. We devalue things that aren’t difficult.
Any surprise this doesn’t appeal to men?
So I can see how the strictness of the Muslim faith would appeal to some people.
And Andrea was right about the appeal of religious dress codes. I have friends who dress very Amish (though they aren’t) and there are all sorts of ways that appeals to me. Having an excuse to not “display” that isn’t “let yourself go and be a slob” is appealing. As is simply having a uniform. I liked my military BDU’s for the same reason that I sometimes wistfully think that a blue jumper and little white cap day in and day out might be nice.
This is the same sort of pap the media used to serve up when referring to leftover Bolsheviks. They would call diehard commies “conservatives”, which while technically correct, was out of context ideologically. It was a ruse which enabled them to apply the word “conservative” to something most normal people rightly considered ghastly. Same deal here, except now the game is to tie the word to “Islamic converts”. Same concept as subliminal advertising, and just before elections!
Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 10 08 at 12:48 AM • permalinkMore pontificating from Perth:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20544757-421,00.html
No wonder I’m not going to my local Anglican Church very often.
#30 Cornelius, “the fastest growing religion” is islamist propaganda. The Arab world is going through a population BOOM.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 08 at 01:18 AM • permalink#31 There were British Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 08 at 01:19 AM • permalink#44 And before the laughter starts, I wouklsd like to
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 08 at 01:28 AM • permalink#44 And before the laughter starts, I would like to quell all jokes about Canadians being wimps. I am not worthy to refer to “our boys” in Afghanistan at the moment.
Also, you can see clearly where the hat badge has been fauxtoshopped.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2006 10 08 at 01:30 AM • permalink"I don’t refuse to take people, but it’s hard for me because my religion tells me I should not go near dogs,” driver Imran said.
I guess that explains why I like dogs so much.
#60
How about Michele Malkin getting “banned” from YouTube? Crikey!Michele Malkin has been banned from YouTube?
I guess that figures. Afterall this is the kind of person who has little trouble being accepted into the YouTube viewer community. And this bloke and this one. And who, under YouTube rules, apparently have the power to
have “banned” videos such as the one made by this this young man.View his video. Then if you can stomach it, take at look at some of the comments it has attracted.
Holy Crap! From where do they dig this BS up? I guess there’s nothing left to say but As-salaam alaykum Yall! What a load of horse dung.
O/T response: Thanks for everyone’s concern, I am both suprised and touched. Sorry to cause yall worry I just had to bolt out of here in a hurry and didn’t have time to explain. I am back in beautiful Iraq and still kicking. So stop your weeping Miranda Divide (although I still refuse to sleep with you).
#34 Cornelius, I wouldn’t call her an ‘empathetic multiculturalist’. I’d call her a farking nufnuf.
With a few more descriptors in there depending on how I woke up that day.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 08 at 04:42 AM • permalinkSeems the muslim cabby refusals are spreading down underNO drunks and no visually impiored
Can i still get in with my pork chops from Coles?
HUZZAH! for Texas Bob and HUZZAH! for El Cid for stalking him through the intermanet.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 08 at 06:26 AM • permalinkDavo (and everyone else who referred to that) I specifically bought the dead tree Sunday Hun because it was front page in huge letters.
Made my day, especially when I commented on it to the girl at the register, and she said she hadn’t seen it. I made a crack about “Well. it’s their religion, so we really must be tolerant” and got a snort from the lady next to me.
She didn’t say anything, but the look spoke volumes.
The editorial was also good. Can’t find it online at the moment, but basically telling those who wish to be cabbies to get over their religious prejudices or find another line of work.
It made my day!
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 10 08 at 06:35 AM • permalink...and besides, since this Eric Bin Laden dipshit claims to live on the former Route 66, then he’s a panhandle bovine boffing newt-brain anyhow. There’s so much lead in the water up there EVERYONE is retarded. The other major religions and churches of the area are Autoaria (the worship of rusty automobile parts sculptures), The Allbright Fellowship of the Holy Maxi-pad Loin-cloth, The Church of Our Lady Milking the Sacred Cow in Knee-deep Water, and The 1st United Quadracostal Pray for a Hill and Some Trees for This Ridiculously Flat Region Chapel and Auction House. The moooslims are in good company.
I really love this line, “Yasmine (previously Mindy) arranged a marriage for herself…”
Yasmindy, how is that different from every other married woman? Every married woman I know of arranged it for herself. Apostate. If she were truly faithful, her father would have arranged her marriage (and gotten a goat or two out of the deal) and she wouldn’t have dared to open her mouth to the press in the first place (which makes me wonder if the reporter was a male. If so, she must be stoned to death before sundown for speaking with a strange man who is not her arranged husband. Whore.)
“David is the only white Muslim in his little town…a white man with his wife and daughter dressed in their hijabs (headscarves) –are stared in the streets and supermarkets of their one-horse town.” David, dress up for the freak-show, expect to be looked at as a freak. Assholes like this THRIVE on the negative attention. David and brood will stroll around in a manner intended to provoke (and don’t even try to tell me he isn’t) and then feign indignation because of their lake of acceptance. Isn’t he the same “white-man” who tearfully apologized to the NAACP for his ancestor’s slave-owning sins?
</rant_off>#81 kilo
While the left either sticks up for Islamofascists or makes excuses for them, the Bush administration is trying to appeal to corrupt ME governments to step away from repression and do something about the monster they have created.
You can’t have it both ways. If the US invaded Saudi Arabia, you would be the first to squeal.
Support for the family dictatorship in Saudi Arabia has been a prevailing theme of U.S. policy for several decades. In 1945, President Franklin D. Roosevelt met with King Abel-Aziz ibn Saud, the founder of the modern Arabian kingdom that now bears his family’s name, and forged the alliance that remains to this day: in return for open access to Saudi oil, the United States would protect the royal family from its enemies, both external and internal.
This policy has remained in force under both Democratic and Republican administrations. For example, in 1981, President Ronald Reagan declared “I will not permit [Saudi Arabia] to be an Iran,” referring to the successful uprising that had ousted the U.S.-backed Shah two years earlier. Under Reagan, American trainers provided direct assistance to Saudi National Guard (SANG) units that crushed a popular uprising.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0520-05.htm
The US supports a repressive Islamic regime in Saudi Arabia.
#82. Your buddies from the communist bloc are in fact propping up most of the rest of the ME
Which ‘communit bloc’ would that be?
Likewise, good to hear from from you, Texas Bob.
Civilians worry when you don’t write to your folks.
Man Management 101.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 10 08 at 07:33 AM • permalinkWhile we are doing war stuff, have a look at our Aussie Diggers doing their thing:
It’s a video, so don’t go there on dialup.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 10 08 at 07:38 AM • permalinkI wonder which Michael Moore talking point kilo will regurgitate next?
We could turn this into a game and take bets on it… how about it kilo? Ever had an original idea?
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2006 10 08 at 09:07 AM • permalinkJust in time for Halloween another troll is released dripping from the vat so he can link to commondreams.org. Hey, trollnoob, no one respects commondreams.org, it’s a clearing house for BDS and commie apologists.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 08 at 09:29 AM • permalinkI don’t stick up for ‘Islamofascists’, the US does; through their support for Islamic regimes in the ME and their fostering of the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
“I don’t stick up for Communists, the US did; through their support of Josef Stalin’s regime from 1941-1945” - kilo’s equally-predictable and moronic grandpa.
You can’t have it both ways. If the US invaded Saudi Arabia, you would be the first to squeal.
Of course kilo can have it both ways, Inurbanus. It’s called “hypocrisy”, and the left thrives on it. Indeed, it’s an essential element in their daily diet, less they wither and die.
President Ronald Reagan declared “I will not permit [Saudi Arabia] to be an Iran,” referring to the successful uprising that had ousted the U.S.-backed Shah two years earlier. Under Reagan, American trainers provided direct assistance to Saudi National Guard (SANG) units that crushed a popular uprising.
[snip]
I don’t stick up for ‘Islamofascists’, the US does; through their support for Islamic regimes in the ME and their fostering of the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
And your point is, kilo? That Regan should have done nothing, and let Saudi Arabia become a theocracy? Or should we have marched into Saudia Arabia and declared it the 51st state? Or let the Soviets stomp all over Afghanistan, and turn it into another member of the USSR? Even Jimmy Carter (God, am I actually agreeing with that cretin?) disapproved of the Soviet invasion. Remember just who the mujahideen were fighting in the first place?
That goes hand-in-hand with Inurbanus’ comment, by the way. You can’t have it both ways.
Yes, I am aware that you are simply providing an example of US support to a corrupt government, at least in the case of Saudia Arabia. Don’t forget that the mujahideen were guerillas against the Soviet backed regime.
I also suggest turning off the selective memory; cherry picking history for your talking points is counterproductive.
At least Ronald Reagan tried to keep the Islamic fanatics at bay, even if it meant supporting a ME dictatorship. Of which there wasn’t much choice back then, anyway, thanks to the Soviet empire backing up other ME dictatorships. As I am sure that you are fully aware of, but carefully ignore (Hypocrisy, thy middle name is kilo).
Of course, that attitude is completely unlike the current generation of lefties who feel that appeasement and cooperation is the key to the future. Like these people who convert to Islam because it “...gives the individual more rights.”
Perhaps you personally don’t stand up and campaign for a Caliphate. But you certaily give implicit support by attacking any attempts to deal with the Islamofacists.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 08 at 09:54 AM • permalink“I don’t stick up for Communists, the US did; through their support of Josef Stalin’s regime from 1941-1945” - kilo’s equally-predictable and moronic grandpa.
BUAWHAHAHAHA!!!!
Good one, Dave. kilo does have a little problem recalling past history lessons, eh?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 08 at 09:56 AM • permalinko/t A friend of the British bombers has said that they had planned to kill the Ashes (Australian and British Cricket teams )players by pumping Sarin gas into the change rooms.
However one of the bombers,Tanweer,a cricket lover objected and a fight broke out over it. source The Australian Newspaper Site..#92 - I know it’s an old design, but the F-111 still looks really cool.
Posted by James Waterton on 2006 10 08 at 10:09 AM • permalinkMmm, Real_Jeff, Saudi Arabis is, for all practical purposes, a theocracy. It’s a Sunni one instead of a Shi’ite one, that’s all. (Thus perhaps it’s slightly less crazy, as Sunni fanaticism seems to be more inwardly focused as opposed to the 12th Mahdi end-of-the-world nonsense the Shi’ites, at least the ones in Iran, are into.) Also it helps that the Saudis are corrupt and decadent—and therefore practical.
It’s not surprising that freshly-created trolls like kilo can’t get into their pointed skulls the fact that our relationship with the Sauds isn’t based on liking or approval of their lifestyle and culture.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 08 at 10:27 AM • permalinkYeah, I know, Dave. All those secret factories in the North American Gulag System™, churning out counterfeit Warsaw Pact weapon systems by the shipload. It boggles the mind what a little motivation, applied to disappeared dissenters, can do.
Lord Karl is ecstatic, I hear......dividends will be very high this year!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 08 at 10:28 AM • permalinkMmm, Real_Jeff, Saudi Arabis is, for all practical purposes, a theocracy.
Touche’, Andrea. However, it was less so back in the Reagan era. At least, it was less openly so, and the Saud family exercised more control. The royal family’s open concessions to the religious elements are a somewhat recent development. But you are, in fact, correct.
But the point remains, we support the Saudis, as unpleasant as they are, because we must. The other choices being letting them run wild (such as Iran does) or having them align with another power (e.g., Iran).
Those other choices may be acceptable to a lunkhead like kilo. They aren’t to me.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 10 08 at 10:36 AM • permalinkTexas Bob, I am also glad you returned. I got so tired of seeing the ladies wringing their hands, airing their fears that something might have happened to you. I told them you were a highly trained soldier, you knew what to do and you have fellow soldiers to cover your ass. I, on the other hand, have MarkL and a few clueless minions to watch my back. Which makes me spend part of my time watching them. And do you think they showed the least bit of concern for my safety? pfffff. And I told them about looking for Stoop Davy Dave and accidently taking the TARDIS to the the Battle of Agincourt and trying to dodge the arrows from the longbows. And do you think they showed the least bit of concern for me? pfffff. And then I said ...
Well anyway, glad to have you back.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 10 08 at 11:29 AM • permalinkHot RWDB on troll action! Fact, logic and consistency battle moral confusion and failed ideology with minute by minute exchanges. See Texas Bob emerge to stake his claim as “comeback poster of the year”! Thrill to the sight of kilo retreating to his dacha under a barrage of finely crafted points. Watch as Miranda gets ignored, only to emerge again unbent and as irrelevent as ever. Cheer all your heroes: TRJ, Mental, kae, salty, Rebecca, paco and many, many more as they battle the forces of stupidity and appeasement in this cyber death match for the heart and soul of civilization!
Call your cable provider to sign up now!
Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 10 08 at 11:31 AM • permalinkMy posts seem always to be thanking someone else for their thoughtfulness but thats the way I am. I do not have an ability or the knowledge to respond in a quick or humourous way to some previous posts. But, rest assured, that nary a word escapes me and this forum is an important part of my life. Wronwright, Andrea et al I tips me hat and absorb all of your clear and, for me, important words.
kilo
I doubt you would get a single objection from anyone of the commenters on this site if the US 3rd Infantry division were to throw their tanks into reverse and back up over the top of Mecca. The ironic thing is that morons like you and your woolly minded twit mates over at commo dreams would be the first to scream blue murder.
Here’s a tip: be serious or don’t bother.
It’s been an occasional pleasure to dip the wick into the blogmire for a short sharp dose of “sexism, intolerance, homophobia, and other anti-liberal” postures on this here blogmire.
If only I had the tabloid blogging knack, like our beloved uberblogger, I too might squander my days and talent playing inane words games like “pot, kettle, black” in the service of perincious agendas and shadowy masters. I’m sure the tips are good.
Posted by Miranda Divide on 2006 10 08 at 04:55 PM • permalink"perincious”? Is that like “delicious” but by the inch?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 08 at 05:03 PM • permalinkSuch a relief to see you back, Texas Bob.
Your very noticeably empty chair ‘round the family table has been a source of worry and concern. When Cousin Cid burst in with the news you were safe, Ma managed to cook up a fresh troll in a jiffy.
You carve, mate...Ah, I see you’ve already started.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 08 at 05:07 PM • permalinkKeep your day job, Miranda, ‘tho it may be hard on the knees…
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 08 at 05:09 PM • permalink#101. Of course i would object to the US invading Saudi Arabia...because it would involve killing tens of thousands of in another futile attempt to bring ‘democracy’ at the point of a bayonet. Just like that other recent and oh so very succesfull example, Iraq.
If you don’t like the way the regime runs its society then don’t support it...to do so otherwise is called hypocrisy...
Btw, no I did not want to see the Soviets stomp all over Afghanistan, but unlike the US I did not want to see it run by a cabal of Islamofascistslike, er Bin Laden.
Of course, that attitude is completely unlike the current generation of lefties who feel that appeasement and cooperation is the key to the future.
Who opposed Saddam in the 1980s when he invaded Iran and was using Western supplied chemicals to gas the Kurds? The Left, that’s who! Certainly not Reagan and the rest of the Right-wing who were backing Saddam to the hilt. Funny how the Right has such a selective memory for history, eh?
#107. Also it helps that the Saudis are corrupt and decadent—and therefore practical.
It’s not surprising that freshly-created trolls like kilo can’t get into their pointed skulls the fact that our relationship with the Sauds isn’t based on liking or approval of their lifestyle and culture.
Hypocrisy anyone..?
Who opposed Saddam in the 1980s when he invaded Iran and was using Western supplied chemicals to gas the Kurds? The Left, that’s who! Certainly not Reagan and the rest of the Right-wing who were backing Saddam to the hilt. Funny how the Right has such a selective memory for history, eh?
Selective memory for history? ... backing Saddam to the hilt? The “left” opposed Saddam? The “West” helped him to murder Kurds? What is it about these people that they just cannot resist the urge to rewrite history? Again and again and ...
#125 Funny how the Right has such a selective memory for history, eh?
My memory’s OK thanks, kilo. The Australian far left Greenies and Dems opposed the Gulf War in 1991, thus supporting Saddam taking over Kuwait’s huge oil reserves, and also threatening the Saudis.
Why? They predicted environmental catastrophe that might even cool the whole earth for decades.
The left here also favoured the USSR and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and opposed the Iraq War in 2003.
Funny that, being anti-Saddam and all..Kilo is so obvioulsy sic begging to be banned that I am going to leave him free to comment. You’ll just have to find something else to brag about to all your little troll friends, ki-ki. (And yeah, my comment was like totally supportive of the Saudis. What can I say, those guys with the camel whips are hawt.)
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 10 08 at 07:23 PM • permalink#103 o/t A friend of the British bombers has said that they had planned to kill the Ashes (Australian and British Cricket teams )players by pumping Sarin gas into the change rooms.
Now, if they had planned only to kill the Aussies, they might have been hailed as loyal Brits! Turned out they won anyway.
Who opposed Saddam in the 1980s when he invaded Iran and was using Western supplied chemicals to gas the Kurds? The Left, that’s who!
Uh-huh. And the moment the US started to pay attention to him, and oppose him, who came to his defense? The Left, that’s who!
And don’t tell me that’s not true. I was in college during the Gulf War, and remember digging up old copies of The Nation decrying the use of gas on Kurds, and remember the reactions of the “progressives” to the information. Shrugs and more whining about “blood for oil” and denunciations of salad shooters.
I’ll never forget sitting in on a meeting of the “Progressive Student Alliance”. They had—true to the political beliefs—elected a fellow from some Third World nation as their president. When he asked them what they would do about someone like Saddam, who only understood the use of force, they looked around the room like someone had just let an incredibly loud and smelly fart.
Then promptly voted funds to pay for a VW bus trip to a “peace” rally.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 10 08 at 08:01 PM • permalinkI’m just waiting for kilo to snap, like our lefty trolls usually do when their Commondreams-quoting shtick miraculously fails to convince anyone that said troll knows what the hell s/he’s talking about.
I’ll put the over/under at ten days...kilo may sound like a mostly mild-mannered gustov_deleft retread for now, but I doubt the staying power will be the same.
Kilo’s right. If it hadn’t been for the fact that the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy brought nuclear power plant development to a halt in the 1970’s and ‘80’s, we wouldn’t have to worry so much about oil. Oh, wait a minute! It wasn’t the VRWC, it was the Environazis, hippies and other sandalistas who did this.
So, no nuclear power and continuing dependence on foreign oil, thanks to the Left. This is called not having your cake and not eating it either.
Hay, kilo! Yeah, you...here’s a few choice Democrits opinions for you to chew on (don’t say I never give you nothin):
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real...”
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force—if necessary—to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998“Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons...”
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 08 at 09:54 PM • permalinkWell, kilo? What happened to them? Some homework for YOU, junior.
Who said the following;
"I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations.”
“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force if necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security”
“I would rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA.”
“I’m an internationalist. I’d like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations.”
And finally,
“ I’ve had one position, one consistent position, that Saddam Hussein was a threat.”
Who said that, kilo???!!!
I’ll give you some hints, these are quotes from one of his good friends:
"You know the one thing that’s wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say.”
“There is no reason for anyone in this country- anyone except a police officer or military person- to buy, to own, to have, to use a handgun. The only way to control handgun use in this country is to prohibit the guns.”
“The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people."
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 10 08 at 10:11 PM • permalink#115, Dave S, your brave Andrea crushesLefties by banningthem...
Now that’s the height of stupidity.
Err, kilo - you’re commenting here.
Must be that “crushing of dissent” we hear about loudly, 24/7, month after month, year after year, from the dissenters. And the irony utterly escapes them.
I never believed a human without a cerebral cortex could operate a computer, but damn if kilo hasn’t pulled it off.
#131. Interesting leap of logic to claim because the Oz Greens opposed Desert Storm they supported Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. But even if they did (which I doubt), compare giving political support to this:
The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52241-2002Dec29?language=printer
And hell yeah I hoped Saddam’s victory against the US. I don’t see Iraq rampaging around the world propping up human rights abusing regimes (er, like Iraq). The sooner the a-bomb using monster that is the US is given a bloody nose the sooner the world’s population can give a sigh of relief.
Interesting leap of logic to claim because the Oz Greens opposed Desert Storm they supported Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait.
Interesting leap of logic on your part to think that opposing the only credible way to get Saddam out of Kuwait wasn’t a case of tacit support for his invasion. Or what would you propose should have been done about it? Too bad you obviously don’t realize just how dumb you sound when you comment here.
Oh, is that bad? Should they have elected someone white?
The point was that they blindly elected somebody on the basis of his racial characteristics, who then turned out not to support their dumb latte-sipping-lefty beliefs all that much. One might even say it was a bit racist of them to assume that any third-worlder simply had to be a supporter of their positions. Lefties unconsciously being racist? Whatta shock.
# 152. Or what would you propose should have been done about it?
Um, let’s see...oh, I know! I guess I wouldn’t have helped him come to power in the first place and then provided him lots of weapons…
Too bad you obviously don’t realize just how dumb you sound when you comment here.
Oh, the irony…
The point was that they blindly elected somebody on the basis of his racial characteristics
How could you possibly know that?
Um, let’s see...oh, I know! I guess I wouldn’t have helped him come to power in the first place and then provided him lots of weapons…
Oh puhleeze, not the “the US was responsible for arming Saddam” nonsense again. Go look it up, the US was the origin for a grand total of 3% (in words: THREE PER CENT) of Iraqi weapons purchases during Saddam’s reign. The biggest part of everything else came from those beacons of peace and prosperity, France and Russia, with a bunch of add-on stuff from Germany, China and others. But do continue to believe in your fact-challenged talking points if that’s what you need to cope with the real world. (Your inability to come up with a credible alternative to invasion based on the situation as it was in 1990 is duly noted, BTW. Colour me unsurprised that you didn’t have anything to offer except a stupidly snarky response.)
Anyway, I’d like to repeat myself, you truly are too dumb to comment here. Go play on Webdiary or Loewenstein’s merry place of idiocy, that’s more your level.
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You ain’t seen nothin’. Wait till we launch the global Jihad. The Left? What left? There won’t be no stinkin’ Left left.
And those middle eastern backsliders better watch their manners (and oil) when we establish the new Caliphate.