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PRESS RELEASE PUBLISHED
Australian Muslim commentator Irfan Yusuf claims:
Yesterday’s Daily Telegraph included an opinion piece titled “Hizb ut-Tahrir wants a Caliph”, supposedly written—and seemingly submitted to the Tele—by media spokesman for the Australian branch of Hizb ut-Tahrir, Wassim Doureihi.
I’ve just spoken to Wassim. He wrote it.
In fact, Doureihi confirmed to Crikey yesterday afternoon that neither he nor anyone else from his organisation submitted anything to the Tele.
Wassim tells me the press release was sent to the Telegraph.
So where did the Tele’s Opinion Editor Tim Blair source this article?
From the press release that was sent to the Telegraph.
Doureihi sees the article as surprisingly similar in content to a recent Hizb ut-Tahrir press release placed on their website.
The very same press release was sent to the Telegraph. All I did was put Wassim’s name on it and remove some self-quoting intro lines - which, seeing as he wrote the thing, seemed fair enough. People are now alert to Hizb ut-Tahrir’s beliefs, expressed in their own words. It was a press release; publicity is usually the aim.
If The Australian thinks Media Watch is suspect for dealing with alleged jihadists, the Tele must be equally as suspect for reproducing articles by Islamists.
No. Media Watch used uncredited Muslim Village researchers to attack the Telegraph and this site. All I did was publish a press release.
But more fundamental than this, what on earth was Tim Blair thinking when he decided to reprint (and almost plagiarise) a press release as an article without seeking the author’s permission?
I was thinking this: here’s a press release from Hizb ut-Tahrir. This is what they believe. Let’s publish it. (As for Irfan’s accusation of almost plagiarism ... the piece ran under the author’s name.)
UPDATE. Further criticism from Margo Kingston:
Since he started his blog years ago with the romantic sales pitch of going out on his own, Blair has had well paid editing and writing hobs with The Bulletin, and now News Limited, where he’s the paper’s opinion editor.
No such “romantic sales pitch” was ever made. I have never had a “hob”. I am not the opinion editor at a publication called News Limited.
Ever read anything on his blog critiquing Packer or Murdoch?
Search my blog(s). Suggested terms may include “chulov”, “adams”, and “rundle”, among others connected to Murdoch and Packer publications.
Blair is a part of the power establishment . Role - attack dog.
Kingston once was a part of the power establishment. Now she lives with her mother on the Gold Coast.
Tim Dunlop began his online writing on Webdiary, where he became a highly valued contributor. He moved to America and began his own blog, Road to Surfdom, which gained a respected reputation for factual accuracy and well argued pieces against invading Iraq. Lo and behold, just after Fairfax had forced me out News Limited offered Tim a blog on their sites.
What will Tim do? (See the discussion at Road to Surfdom here.) I know what I did when Fairfax unilaterally pulled a piece of mine. And when Fairfax ordered me to delete the archives of then Webdiary columnist Antony Loewenstein.
Defying Margo’s pressure, Dunlop hasn’t quit.
For more on the Tim Blair style, see this Media Watch transcript. And this follow up piece.
What Margo describes as a “follow up piece” appeared years prior to the previously-mentioned item.
Imagine a Media Watch which didn’t criticise the ABC. It would be meaningless, yes? Well so is Tim Blair when it comes to media and political commentary.
Yet Margo knows where to go for online information:
I got the news from Tim Blair’s site ...
UPDATE III. KK has further details on that secret press release.
UPDATE IV. More from Irfan:
Proper and professional opinion editors print opinion pieces which are submitted to them by the authors or which they commission the authors to write. If an opinion editor wishes to reproduce something on his/her page from another source, s/he will obtain permission from the author.
1. The piece wasn’t “from another source”. 2. Press releases carry a certain amount of implied permission to publish ... an amount somewhere around the 100% level.
There are proper and professional opinion editors. And then there is Tim Blair. According to Blair, it’s enough that the Press Release somehow managed to end up in the possession of the Tele.
It didn’t “somehow manage” to end up in the Telegraph’s possession. It was sent by Hizb ut-Tahrir.
That gives Blair the trigger to publish it as an opinion piece without seeking any permission from the supposed author or the organisation.
Correct.
So next time any lobby group or company issues a press release and it ends up at the Tele’s offices in Surry Hills, they shouldn’t be surprised if their media contact becomes the author of an article edited and published without their permission.
Exactly right. Be warned, press release writers! Your press release may be published by the press!
I’ve had some disagreements with Tom Switzer, opinion editor at The Australian over the past few months. But Switzer is a true professional. He won’t take a press release or blog entry, edit it and then print it as an op-ed piece. If he wants to use excerpts from an outside source for his “Cut and Paste” section, he will obtain permission from the source.
Tom Switzer runs pieces by me in “Cut and Paste” all the time. First I know of this is when I read the Australian. No permission is requested or required.
I’ve had a Korean newspaper in Melbourne ask me permission to reproduce a piece I wrote for The Age. I’ve had the editor of an Anglican parish newsletter in Queensland seeking my permission to reproduce an article that first appeared in the Courier-Mail.
Well, of course. I do the same when sourcing material originally published elsewhere. Irfan is now talking about something other than press releases.
Given that Blair never even bothered to contact anyone from HT, the question arises: How did he reach the conclusion that Wassim Doureihi wrote the press release?
Because he wrote it. His name was on it. And he’s subsequently confirmed he was the author.
Anyway, Tim. Let’s presume that you did the correct and proper thing. If I get my Christian mate to write a press release on his views on the management of a certain Christian denomination and send it to the Tele, will you edit the article and run it without first getting his permission?
I might, if it’s interesting. What world does Irfan inhabit that requires permission to publish a press release? Ol’ Irfy also points out that Hizb ut-Tahrir has re-published the article:
Just for the record, this article is an edited version of the HT press release issued yesterday 11/07/07. It was included in Daily Telegraph (DT) as an opinion piece (with DT editing) without the prior permission of Wassim Doureihi or representatives from HT.
Hizb ut-Tahrir ran the piece without seeking permission.
UPDATE V. Irfan supporter Paul is almost as stupid as Irfan himself:
In respectavle real-world journalism, people tend to obtain permission before using the (presumably copyrighted) words of others.
The word they use to describe it is “ethnics”.
UPDATE VI. Irfan changes his story. Now the “real issue” is the Telegraph’s indulgence of “Islamist groups”:
I’m glad Blair posted the HT piece. It showed the hypocrisy of the DT in accusing Media Watch and the ABC of using ‘jihadist’ sources whilst themselves happily indulging Islamist groups like HT. This was the real issue which Blair hasn’t dealt with on his blog or elsewhere.
I dealt with this in the initial item posted. See above.
UPDATE VII. Now one of Irfan’s pals, published in Irf’s moderated comments, claims I’m a “chronic racist” and cocaine fiend who can “only get a job in a cheap 2nd rate newspaper”. My, my. A lawyer let that through?
Yes, but it was almost plagiarism because you needed to do to make it actual plagiarism was to change two words. Take out Wassim Doureihi and put in Tim Blair and, simple as that, it would have been plagiarism.
Posted by tim maguire on 2007 07 13 at 10:18 AM • permalinkThe July 11 statement on their website makes interesting reading.
“Hizb ut-Tahrir continues to resolutely oppose all forms of tyranny and dictatorship exclusively through intellectual and political means, and in fact considers the recourse to violence as a means to achieve its objectives a violation of Islamic law.”
Fantastic!
“Hizb ut-Tahrir is now being targeted in the West for three primary reasons: 1. the party continues to courageously expose the crimes of Western governments to a global audience; 2. the party unrelentingly challenges the West’s neo-liberal interventionist policies in the Muslim world; and 3. the party works tirelessly to present Islam as an ideological alternative to Western secular capitalism as a model of governance in the Muslim world.”
So what does all that mean, along with their objection to the “illegal state of Israel”?
Secular capitalism is about as good as it gets, freedomwise, so what precisely are they offering, assuming they are fair dinkum about opposing tyranny and rejecting violence?
It’s those damn neo-liberals behind it all! I knew it!
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 07 13 at 10:23 AM • permalinkAs neat and tidy an explanation as I’ve ever seen, Tim. One can almost visualize you as the teacher at the head of the classroom, painstakingly writing on the board for the benefit of Irfan Ysuf (in dunce turban, slippered feet coiled around the rungs of the high stool on which he’s perched), “1+1=2”.
As KK mentioned, isn’t the point of a press release to get it, you know, printed? And why in the bloody hell would you write something in a press release that you didn’t want published verbatim? Thats asinine. Here you have the opportunity to write out exactly what you want some journo to print if he’s having a bad day and wants to fill column, and you go and give TMI?
That right there is a textbook example of putting on golf spikes and kicking yourself in the nuts.
#4 Rafe
Secular capitalism is about as good as it gets, freedomwise, so what precisely are they offering (...) ?
Submission to a band of former desert nomads who worship an iron meteorite in the middle of the Arabian wasteland. And we get to keep our heads on our shoulders.
Seems fair.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 10:46 AM • permalink#8 Amos
I sometimes despair of prevailing against these Islamic supermen, how can we defeat their ape-like stupidity and desire to die?
The question of the age… because attempting to reason with them has failed to deter them, primarily because Reason, being a decadent Western concept, is haraam.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 10:50 AM • permalinkApparently Wassim was ahead of the pack; that press release wasn’t scheduled for release until after the Caliphate is formed.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 07 13 at 10:52 AM • permalinkas mentioned in the previous thread, the object of any press release is to get free ink/air. otherwise why send them to the media? any corporation or government flack who had the bulk of a press release quoted verbatim would be delighted. bad tim, bad, bad tim for giving wassim doureihi the platform he asked for by sending his release to the tele. either irfan yusuf is dim beyond belief, or there are subtle fatwas relating to muslim extremist press releases that are beyond the ken of us infidels
Maybe it escaped.
LOL!
I assume Paco Industries PR staffers have taken precautions to prevent a similar occurence?
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 10:53 AM • permalink#1 Spiny: “Is Irfan Yusuf really that stupid, or is he putting out intentional misinformation?”
Both.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 07 13 at 11:00 AM • permalinkThe really pathetic thing is, the more I read about crap like this, the more I’m convinced I got better instruction from Mrs. Griggs in my high school journalism class that just about any “journalist” gets in “journalism” school today.
There are, obviously, some exceptions. Tim, I don’t remember you in Mrs. Griggs’ class - you must have come through after I graduated and left home. What made you decide to move to Australia? ;-p
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 07 13 at 11:05 AM • permalinkIs “almost plagiarism” sort of like “a little bit pregnant”?
Posted by miriams ideas on 2007 07 13 at 11:09 AM • permalinkFurther criticism from Margo Kingston:
Oh, brother…
Further sniveling from the fact-challenged Margok, Queen of Invincible Ignorance.
Irfan knows he’s lying, but I suspect Margok, on the other hand, really is that dense.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 11:19 AM • permalinkoh & just for the record, irf is uglier than a bucket full of cane toads eeeeeewwwwww
I see Margot has freed her mind again.
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it’s yours. If it doesn’t, it never was.
What are the odds on “never was”?
Posted by Some0Seppo on 2007 07 13 at 11:20 AM • permalinkI read Irfan Yusuf’s statement three times. Afterwards I thought “what an ass he made of himself”.
Someone needs to sit down with him an explain the meaning of words like “plagiarism”, “press release”, “foot in one’s mouth”, etc.
Posted by wronwright on 2007 07 13 at 11:22 AM • permalink#28
I see Margot has freed her mind again.
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it’s yours. If it doesn’t, it never was.
What are the odds on “never was”?
Like a feral dog wandering the neighborhood, digging through garbage cans (dust bins?) for its supper, defying all attempts to capture it.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 11:24 AM • permalink#34 Stevo
Why?
Don’t tell Andrea, but I think SandiM spilled the italics jar. Hopefully she won’t notice…
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 11:28 AM • permalinknote the muslim village take on where the news release was sent - all accredited media
SandiM,
Andrea? Notice? nooooooooooooooooo. Of course not.
(wronwright steps back far far away from SandiM)
Posted by wronwright on 2007 07 13 at 11:48 AM • permalinkMargo -
Blair is a part of the power establishment . Role - attack dog.
Power establishment = Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.
A paid attack dog at that. Paid, Margo. Tim gets paid. Cash money. Expense account. Luxurious office.
And how does Rupert get Tim to do his attack dogging?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
(Please note, my original comment had over 1,000 dollar signs, but for some reason it broke the page. Since Tim Blair has his own attack dog who patrols these grounds, I “reconsidered” my idea of listing 1,000 dollar signs. I blame the power establishment.)
Posted by wronwright on 2007 07 13 at 12:08 PM • permalinkHaha. MV exonerates Tim Blair.
Oh and check out the mustCTV recommended at MV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2aX-9j6H8Blair is a part of the power establishment .
My, you’ve arrived!
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2007 07 13 at 12:13 PM • permalinkGood God, man, don’t you understand the sanctity of the private messages put out by PR practitioners?
Good to see Margo making a comeback. Now if she could just learn to construct a sentence, and take a logical thought to its conclusion…
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 13 at 12:21 PM • permalink#50 Margos Maid
Now if she could just learn to construct a sentence, and take a logical thought to its conclusion…
That would be a clear mark of the End Times.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 12:27 PM • permalinkRE: plans for a new caliphate
“Critics of Hizb ut-Tahrir are desperately seeking to suppress debate.”
What’s to debate? Muslims in Turkey, Syria, Egypt etc. are foreign invaders, colonialists and imperialists who have been wrongfully occupying Christian and Jewish land for centuries, and eventually we’re going to drive you out and retake control of those lands, just as we did in Spain.
There’s nothing to discuss. Just pack up and leave…or get driven out the hard way.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 07 13 at 12:28 PM • permalink#27 KK
Irfan definitely has the look of a sniveler.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 07 13 at 12:36 PM • permalinkRole - attack dog.
I thought Tim was an Evil Minion, First Class. Did he get demoted because of that duck being on the loose?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 07 13 at 12:36 PM • permalink... irf is uglier than a bucket full of cane toads ...
KK, as they say back on the rez, that boy fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
Posted by David Crawford on 2007 07 13 at 12:55 PM • permalinkOh no!
Somebody tipped over the italics jar again.Mac users may use the nearest exit, as usual.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 07 13 at 01:04 PM • permalinkOT
Anger really can trigger a heart attack. But then, so can getting sick, being too hot, being too cold, air pollution, lack of sleep, grief, overeating, natural disasters, exercise and sex.
Well, fuck me. All this medical stuff and this is what is found!?
Hey people, running can get you places quicker than walking, driving can get you places quicker than running, trains and boat get you there even quicker…and wow, you should see what they built in the last century…PLANES, THEY FLY!
Sex to Earthquakes: What Causes Heart Attacks
OH and how are my fellow and LADY attack dogs today. It is wonderful to be part of a pack.
Thanks for the kennel TIM.
Re: Road to Surfdom
“He moved to America and began his own blog, Road to Surfdom, which gained a respected reputation for factual accuracy…”
LOL.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 07 13 at 01:23 PM • permalink#29 Wronwright said, “Someone needs to sit down with him an explain the meaning of words like ‘plagiarism’, ‘press release’, ‘foot in one’s mouth’, etc.”
I was thinking more along the lines of sitting down with him, rolling up multiple hard copies of the press release, and just smacking the shit out of him.
Hmmmm.
Sir! Sir!!
How dare you publish a press release!
And don’t publish this comment!
And most certainly don’t publish this comment using my name!
Otherwise I’ll have to falsely accuse you of plagarism!
Which is probably not quite as painful of being falsely accused of barratry, which I’ve heard is very painful for men over 35.
Posted by memomachine on 2007 07 13 at 02:01 PM • permalink#65: Yes, El Cid, you’re right. I’ve got better ways of getting exercise than that.
Meantime, check out this asshole. Sort of an Islamic blithe boy.
#69: I believe the use of a brick is a legitimate mode of free expression in this case.
Almost as odious as his wallowing in the death of Daniel Pearl, is the weasely preamble in which he lamely attempts to disassociate himself from terrorism. The only upside to bastards like this is that they ultimately help us to whittle down our options. This is also the kind of thing that’s getting me very excited about the guerilla cyber-warfare being fought by Rusty Shackleford at the Jawa Report against internet jihadists.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Dear Mr. Blair,
I hereby submit, via the comment functionality of your blog’s comment section, this blog comment to your blog. Please note: You are henceforth not authorized to show this blog comment, as submitted via the comment functionality of your blog’s comment section, on your blog.
Regards.
Maybe it wasn’t a press “release”. Maybe it escaped.
Will the Hizbies beheader it?
Posted by Jeffersonian on 2007 07 13 at 04:24 PM • permalinkThink context people. Magrot obviously thinks that the press release was only put out to be read by Hizb ut-Tahrir disciples. By allowing kafirs to read it, our favourite Tim Tam has taken it out of context.
Which makes it plagarism in Magrot’s eyes. It probably should have had non-kafirs only plastered boldly across the top.
What Magrot is saying is the stupidest bloody argument I have heard since I told the youngster to clean his room.
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 07 13 at 05:48 PM • permalinkA writing instruction site offers this advice for press release writers:
“Imagine that you were a columnist who picked up your story and wanted to print it. Write your release as if it were going to go directly to print. ” emphasis in original.
Mr Yusuf seems to have difficulty grasping the basic concept here.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 07 13 at 06:13 PM • permalinkI think this Margo’s comment speaks volumes on her spelling and financial competencies.
“Margo: Oh no!!! I’ll get it fixed. and I was proof reader! Typical. I don’t understand what you mean by PayPal.”
Posted by Hank Reardon on 2007 07 13 at 06:21 PM • permalinkirf is uglier than a bucket full of cane toads ...KK, as they say back on the rez, that boy fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
Leo Bloom expressed it so eloquently when trying to hurt Max Bialystock’S feelings—
FATFATFATFATFATFATFATFATFAT!
Posted by walterplinge on 2007 07 13 at 06:52 PM • permalink#82 Margo as proof reader? Holy moly.
My parnets went to Nerang and all I got was this luosy t-shit
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 13 at 07:40 PM • permalinkI see retirement has done nothing for Margo’s addled mind. I hope her mum keeps the medicine cabinet locked.
BTW, I don’t think she was actually sacked from Fairfax (can a left be sacked from Fairfax?). I think she walked out during some overwrought workplace politics episode. Perhaps they asked her to use a spell-checker.
Welcome back Margo, you’re just in time to add 5 points to John Howard’s poll ratings before the election. Keep on publishing!
Q: When is a press release not a press release?
A: When it’s written by a Muslim and printed by an infidel.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 07 13 at 08:36 PM • permalinkHornets. Hornets!
Anyway, Tim, I haven’t even read the first update yet, but let me say this:
From my experience of being involved in various different kinds of organiztions and causes at different times, the whole point of producing a Press Releaseis for the press to reprint it, in its entirety if possible.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 07 13 at 08:55 PM • permalinkFor those of us who lived through the whole Cold War, the striking similarity of rhetoric and nonsequiturs in HT press releases reminds us nostalgically of Communist Party agitprop.
Same ideas, different god.Unnoted is the same deep hatred of capitalism’s tendency to real progress, usury and ‘interference’ wherever it can make a buck -say in Saudi Arabia and the whole M-E - which STILL needs Western expertise to produce its oil wealth.
HT manages to forget the recent Western interventions that saved the lives of Muslim Boisnians, Kurds and Kosovans. The Ummah did nothing comparable!
Up the KKKaliphate! Up the Khyber!
#1 Spiny, no Irfan is not stupid. He is simply and deliberately lying. For his cause is not served by truth but by repetition of lies - a la Goebbels.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 07 13 at 09:09 PM • permalink#10 - Hey, it’s you again Spiny :-)
In fact, the very concept of rational explanation of phenomena is verbotten in Islam. To even attempt to reason cause and effect is to question Allah’s perfect design.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 07 13 at 09:14 PM • permalinkI bet Irfan is really upset every week when they pick up his trash without seeking permission.
Not to mention the ongoing travesty of his sewage being seized by local utilities, who do not ask first when he flushes his toliet.
Frankly, Tim, I’d be a little worried he might sue you for excerpting his complaints in order to respond to them. I’m not even sure you’re allowed to read them!
Howard obsessive disorder has become a serious illness inflicting many Australians, including some quite prominent ones. Left untreated, it can cause premature ageing, obesity and loss of mental faculties as clearly seen in patients Margo Kingston and Phillip Adams. It can also manifest itself with Tourettes like outbursts of irrational hate-filled bile, as exhibited by patients Paul Keating and Mark Latham.
Psychiatrists from the ABC and Fairfax mental hospitals believe a complete cure is possible if John Howard is defeated at the next election. But others say the illness is incurable, citing patient Adams’, who in the past suffered the very similar Menzies obsessive disorder and then the disturbing Whitlam obsessive disorder, in which Adams and others inflicted became convinced that Whitlam was a god.
Other psychiatrists believe Howard obsessive disorder masks a deeper mental illness, citing patient Keating’s long untreated megalomania as the root cause of his recent obsessive behaviour.
Cheer up Tim.
Scene: management meeting of Hizb ut-Tahrir(Lakemba Branch)
Mahmoud: Well, that’s settled the use of the goat for this week at least. Be nice to her Khalid, she has such a sweet disposition. OK, what’s next on the agenda?
Fatoush: The impending caliphate!
All: Ulululullululululululu
Mahmoud: Haha, soon all the world will tremble at our plans, the Kafir will kneel at our feet, the…..
Fatoush: Erm, big M, it seems they know about it already, Tim Blair at the Telegraph printed our press release
Mahmoud: Whaaaaaat? Who is responsible for this outrage?
All: (point fingers) It Wassim!
Mahmoud: Wassim, is this true?
Wasim: Well, yes, you said Wassim, write press release, I let Tim Blair use it, he is press no? Haha soon the kafir will tremble at…
Mahmoud: Silence! You imbecile!
Wassim: But we are jihadists big M
Mahmoud: (sighs) Yes, I know, we want the world to fear us but first we must make them think that we are nice people who simply like kebabs and strong coffee.
Wasim: But,
Mahmoud: Fool! You, prepare the dunce turban! Wassim you will stand in that corner until I tell you to leave.
Wasim: But he is press, write a press release you said.
Mahmoud: Enough! Now, how do we deal with this?
Fatoush: I’ve got it, accuse Blair of being in league with jihadists because he printed it, sort of like getting ‘girls germs’ you know.
Mahmod: Hmmm, yes, that might work. I’ve got something better than that, our trojan horse, a woman who can pass through the middle east and not be asked where her burkha is, a woman so devoid of logic and spelling she is the one to muddy the waters enough to solve our problems.
All: no, no, surely not
Mahmoud: yes a beast most foul, if I can only lure her from her mothers’ eco cabin,
Fatoush: no, not
Mahmoud: yes, Margo Kingston.
I dunno. Irfan is clearly bravely struggling against the heinous cultural imperialist practice of imbuing words and phrases with well-defined meanings, rather than whatever meaning Irfan, inshallah, chooses a word to have.
Never give in*, Irfan!
*“Never give in” is in Irfanese. In this context, it means “Buy a damn dictionary” in Anglo-Cultural-Imperialist.Posted by Crispytoast on 2007 07 13 at 09:30 PM • permalink“Maybe it wasn’t a press “release”. Maybe it escaped.”
Ah, whimsy. Is there anything it can’t do?Posted by carpefraise on 2007 07 13 at 09:34 PM • permalink#28 Please don’t make me laugh so hard - it hurts.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 07 13 at 09:34 PM • permalinkIrfan should learn a good lesson here:
HT shamefully exposed their press release out in the front yard like some cat meat on a plate. Now, if the cat takes the meat, we cannot blame the cat!Posted by fankytomato on 2007 07 13 at 10:15 PM • permalink#96 Barrie. You’re slightly off with that use of ‘usury’.
/smartarse
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 13 at 10:52 PM • permalinkIrf the Smurf just keeps on digging.
Irf, question: that law practice on commercial dispute resolution you run; does it do any business? Fair dinkum, mate, if I was a client I’d be on the horn this morning asking for my money back.
And for Allah’s sake, go easy on the roti canai or whatever it is you skarf down for breakfast every day. You’ll have a bloody moon orbiting you soon. Isn’t there a fatwa (no pun intended) about overeating?*
*Okay, you got me. Pun was intended…
Found this on MV:
The accusation by the dailytelegraph editor David Penberthy Are False
WE DONT HAVE NO PRO SUICIDE BOMBERS members In here
Glad that’s sorted out.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 13 at 10:59 PM • permalink#110 kae
Unnoted is the same deep hatred of capitalism’s tendency to real progress, usury and ‘interference’ wherever it can make a buck -say in Saudi Arabia and the whole M-E - which STILL needs Western expertise to produce its oil wealth.
I don’t think he meant to say that a feature of capitalism is charging exorbitant rates of interest.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 13 at 11:02 PM • permalinkRadius
I used usury to describe charging too much interest, however it means/meant charging any interest on the lending of money. Someone corrected me.
Usury means charging money for lending money. It’s only recently been used to describe charging more than the legal rate (whatever THAT is).Also on MV:
i cant imagine anyone being pro suicide bombings… was anyone ever pro kamakazzi jets by the Japanese?
Fuck, these guys are idiots. How can anyone make so many mistakes in one sentence? ‘Kamakazzi’ alone has three spelling mistakes.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 13 at 11:08 PM • permalink#116 kae. Usury has meant excessive interest for hundreds of years. (I blame the Jews.) Anyway, I fear this disagreement is disrupting an otherwise gay thread.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 13 at 11:18 PM • permalinkI’m not gay.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Anyway, how can the Jews possibly manage to take over the world without charging interest? Bloody hell, what’s it coming to?
What? You mean they already control the world? Well, who can I complain to, there’s a few things that need taking care of!
Yusef is naturally endowed with a god-given right as a member of the supreme race of islam, which is dedicated to non-violently supplanting all other races of this world in the name of anti-racism and justice, to use any word with any meaning to just mean whatever he means. These corrupt, outdated, western notions of definition, fact or even truth have no bearing on the matter.
Posted by stahlblume on 2007 07 13 at 11:29 PM • permalinkOh Yusuf - that’s not the half of it.
As someone who works ‘for the dark side’ as PR people are sometimes regarded, it’s an absolute gift if a journalist uses half a media release, let alone a full media release as a stand alone column piece.
And yes it has happened to me several times, including a media release published word for word under my by-line.
You’re fooling no one my dear
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 07 13 at 11:37 PM • permalinkAnd furthermore Yusuf - when I worked as a print journalist it was understood by everyone in the newsroom from the managing editor down to the lowliest cadet that any media release sent in to a publication was fair game for anything from ridicule to consideration as a serious news/feature/opinion piece.
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 07 13 at 11:41 PM • permalinki cant imagine anyone being pro suicide bombings… was anyone ever pro kamakazzi jets by the Japanese?
Um, considering they were tactics accepted and promoted by the Japanese government and military? Yes, I’d imagine some people were “pro-kamakazzi”.
Posted by Quentin George on 2007 07 13 at 11:51 PM • permalinkA few months ago, it was noted at this site that Ant Loewenstein published something that was not completely idiotic.
Now it emerges that he was a central figure in the collapse of Margolia…Hmmm
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 13 at 11:54 PM • permalinkIf you are one of the handful of Irfan’s blog readers (noting he personally has many blogs which all link to each other) you may have seen this bit, permanently on the right hand side:
Endorsement from Tim Blair, Opinion Editor, Daily Telegraph
I spent much of the weekend going through your blog. I mean, f#cking hell. Put yourself in my f*cking shoes, mate. Why the f+ck should I run your stuff? Why should I do you any favours when you write that f^cking bullsh!t on your blog?
(Conversation with Mr Blair.)
I wonder whether Irfan, sought Tim’s permission to print this “endorsement”?
I’m sure Tim would be only to happy to give such permission, but I’m also sure Irfan has edited it. No doubt Tim was a lot more colourful.
#129 I didn’t know that Tim stutters when trying to say ‘fuck’. Luckily all it takes for 1.618 to get the idea is a beckoning finger.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 14 at 12:12 AM • permalink#129
I would visit his site Dan, but I guess all those calls for the islamic community to look out for extremists and put the interests of Australians first must get repetitive after a while.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 14 at 12:32 AM • permalinkOkay folks, quiz time.
Let’s imagine that you are a self-styled spokesperson for the muslim faith in Australia. Then let’s pretend that an islamic doctor from Brisbane has been charged with providing support to a terrorist organisation. Experts are saying it is a matter of time before we see terrorism in the name of Allah on Australian soil.
This is a serious situation, not just because one of your number is threatening innocent people with murder, but because it has the potential to fundamentally undermine the trust of fellow Australians towards people of your faith. What is the best course of action?:
a) Seek to regain the trust of fellow Australians by denouncing terrorism in all its forms, and chastise fellow muslims for not doing enough to root out violent extremists;
b) Seek to regain the trust of fellow Australians by explaining that while this man is innocent until proven otherwise, this behaviour is not typical of Muslim Australians and gently reminding fellow Australian muslims that it is their duty to speak out against violence;
c) Seek to regain the trust of fellow Australians by pointing out that the opinion editor of the Daily Telegraph published a press release and what’s more, is somewhat uncouth.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 14 at 12:59 AM • permalinkIt’s them poor picked on marginalised little mossies again. I don’t know why they stay in this awful country, why don’t they just pack up and go back to their little heaven on Earths in the Middle East or where ever it is?
We could all [willingly] put in for a one way ticket just to show them we care.WE DONT HAVE NO PRO SUICIDE BOMBERS members In here
No, they’re all amateurs and I might add to Nora’s comment re getting press releases published under her own name, there have been times her press releases have been published word for word under the name of the journalist whose desk it happened to fall upon.
And frankly neither of us cared about the ‘plagiarism’ because it still got the words out there and our clients were served (damned capitalism again).
—Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 07 14 at 02:30 AM • permalink#149 I have come to grips with the fact I may never reach the level of fame of you people, but I have achieved more than 10,000 at salad dodger!
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 14 at 03:51 AM • permalink#129 Dan Lewis:
I don’t think I’ve seen Tim use expletives on his blog. Was the “conversation” quoted from a phone call?I refrain from using profanity, not completely though, because I have dropped the odd expletive here and there on this blog. It’s a matter of timing.
I took my cue many moons ago from my CO who was very well spoken and eloquent when addressing his troops. Only once did I hear him utter the “F” word to the Regiment, because of some pretty poor behaviour by some of the soldiers. At that point, most people then knew he was serious.
About press releases, the very act of sending it out is you want an audience to read your message, the larger the audience the better. It is then in the public domain. There’s an art in writing them. Do it poorly, they get thrown in the bin.
#152 Stevo
I took my cue many moons ago from my CO who was very well spoken and eloquent when addressing his troops. Only once did I hear him utter the “F” word to the Regiment, because of some pretty poor behaviour by some of the soldiers. At that point, most people then knew he was serious.
Possibly the best reason to never swear in front of children. They day you do - they know you really mean business…
#152 Strangely, pretty much the only time I swear is on this blog.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 14 at 05:05 AM • permalink#152
I don’t think I’ve seen Tim use expletives on his blog. Was the “conversation” quoted from a phone call?
See Irfan’s side of the story here. I strongly suspect there’s another side…
Read the comments on that post as well, it seems others have very little time for the guy. Irfan tried it on me once, when an “anonymous” post appeared on his blog threatening to post my home address and telephone number after I’d had a go at hypocrite, Antony Loewenstein.
Noting that all comments to Irfan’s blog are pre-moderated, it was obvious that (best case) Irfan approved of the threat or (worst case) actually posted it himself (anonymously).
It was astonishing behaviour for a lawyer (Irfan) who is constantly threatening to sue people.
My attitude, after this and his disgraceful outburst at the Mark Steyn lecture, was that if Irfan represented the best and brightest the so-called “moderate Islamic community” had to offer, there is a problem.
JF Beck had a write-up about the whole sorry affair.
An insight into commenter paul ... I forgive his spelling mistake “respectavle” for respectable ... v is next to b on the keyboard ... we all do it, but adding an n to ethics is not. I make the same mistake often, typing a similar word to the one I want. The similar word is usually one that I always think of.
Now about respectavle journalists ... hmmm ...
#142. Yeah, good point. “Professional” implies that you’ve done something many, many times and are really good at it. Self terminating ‘splodey people don’t get to have a second and third crack at improving their initial performance.
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 07 14 at 06:33 AM • permalinkI just posted a couple of comments at Irf’s - awaiting moderation. The second one reads:
P.S. Perhaps you and Wassim also need to google up “What is a media release”. Then ask yourself, why did Wassim post his article “for immediate release” on the risala website AND send it to media outlets. Not perhaps to get published? Attract media and public attention? Which is the precisely the purpose of a media/press release?
Like I said, you’re not looking good here Irf.
saint
D@B#160
Like I said, you’re not looking good here Irf.
Now that’s just cruel. :p
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 14 at 07:31 AM • permalink122 Islam is not a race. It’s a choice.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 07 14 at 07:37 AM • permalinkFor comparative purposes only
Scene 1 - Kevin Rudd’s office
Staffer: “Kevin, I’ve been collecting responses all morning to the press release that we posted on the web site regarding the transfer of Mr Feng Hong from the Director of Special Responsibility in the People’s Department of Tractor Awareness to First Assistant Deputy Minister of the State Ministry for Rice Paper Quality Assurance”.
Rudd: “Ah yes, Mr Hong, a very important Chinese bureaucrat. A man to watch.”
Staffer: “Well, yes. Perhaps. I’ve taken calls from 192 media outlets this morning seeking permission to use the press release. Where shall we start?”
Rudd: “The ABC. Let’s be alphabetical”.
Staffer: “If we do it alphabetically, we need to start with ‘The Aardvark’, which is a student magazine published by the Tooronga Zoo squirrel appreciation society.”
Rudd: “Never heard of them. But they have my permission to use my name.”
Staffer: “But what about the press release?”
Rudd: “No, all they can use from the release is my name. I expect a big, bold headline on the front cover saying ‘KEVIN RUDD’. They shouldn’t need to write anymore than that.”
Staffer: “You do realise those people are nuts?”
Rudd: “Yes, that’s why I’m only letting them use my name. If they use any more than that, they’ll mix up Mr Hong with Mr Fong Heng of the Ministry of Summary Justice. Mr Heng is not a man to trifle with. If we annoy him, I’ll have Shung Quong from the Administrative Mandate for the Manipulation of Foreign Powers and Round-eyed Devils on my back again and I’ll have to apologise for the second time this week.”
New staffer: “Why do we have to apologise to the Chinese all the time?”
Rudd: “Who is this fool?”
(Shoulders shrugged by everyone else in office).
Rudd: “Because when I made a speech in Mandarin last week, I failed to conjugate a verb in the second last paragraph. Quong threatened to ban our exports of Badger testicles unless I apologised.”
New staffer: “Grovel abjectly you mean.”
Rudd: “In China, getting down on your hands and knees and licking the carpet is not refered to as groveling. You obviously know nothing about relations with a foreign power, especially one as ancient and special as China.”
New staffer: “But we don’t export any badgers testicles. We don’t even have badgers in Australia.”
Rudd: “Silence! Who questions my unmatched knowledge of the relationship between China and Australia! Who dares to -”
Staffer: “Kevin, if we could get back to the business at hand. The ABC. Tony Jones rang and wants to quote part of the press release.”
Rudd: “He gave me a good interview last night. He can quote the whole thing if he wants.”
New staffer: “You mean he gave you a soft interview, as always.”
Rudd: “Silence! Who dares to question my enormous powers of debate? You again? One more word out of you, and you’ll be dealing with the Murdoch press”.
New staffer: “I’m doing that already. I’ve been helping take phone calls all morning regarding this press release. I took one from a guy named Blair. How much of the release can he use?”
Rudd: “Blair! The Devil Incarnate? He can have none of it! He can’t even use my name! If he prints my name, sue him!”
Staffer: “But he’s already published parts of it on his blog. He took the bit from the release about you being invited to attend the next meeting of the Popular Regional And Territorial Stars and pointed out that it stands for PRATS. He thinks the Chinese reckon you are the biggest PRAT in this part of the world.”
Rudd: “Contact Blair immediately and demand the removal of all quotes from my press release immediately! I did not give him my permissions to publish anything.”
Staffer: “OK, let’s move on. The Ballarat Advertiser wants to know what they can use.”
Rudd: “Paragraph one only.”
Staffer: “The Coonamble Times?”
Rudd: “Paragraphs one and two and the first line from paragraph three”.
Staffer: The Dubbo Crier?”
Rudd: “Nothing for them.”
Staffer: “The Adelaide Advertiser?”
Rudd: “Any six words from paragraph 5. They don’t necessarily have to be in order”.
Staffer: “The Illawarra Mercury?”
Rudd: “They gave me a bad run over climate change. Bloody coal miners. They can use the word ‘Special’ until they stop complaining that my policies will put half the regional workforce on the dole”.
New staffer: “That’s a good choice. You are very special Mr Rudd.”
Rudd: “Why thank you. Now, can we move onto Defence policy. I want to review troop movements to Iraq and -”
Staffer: “Sorry to butt in, but we have 188 more requests from media outlets to review. Since we started, we’ve also had 19 more calls come in. You need to go through every request and specifically approve what every journalist can use.”
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 07 14 at 08:11 AM • permalink....continued
Rudd: “You know, I don’t know why the media don’t give me more kudos for working so hard. I work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week at this job. That’s 122 hours a week.”
New staffer: “No it’s not, it’s 112 hours a week. I’ve done a time and motion study and found that you spend 102 of those hours approving press releases. We can dramatically improve your productivity by -”
Rudd: “Silence! I am the only one around here that has a say in productivity policy! I have all the answers to making Australia a more productive nation! The answer is ‘education’!”
New staffer: “If that’s the answer, what was the question?”
Rudd: “From now on, you are only to address me in Mandarin. You upstart! Where did you come from?”
New staffer: “The same place all your new recruits come from - the ABC. Now, what do I do about Blair? He’s refusing to take down your press release. Said something about it being in the ‘public domain’, whatever that is. Now, if I was back a the ABC, the Journalist and Print Operators union would simply order the blog to be destroyed and that would be that. The shocktroops from the lesbian cadres would snuff it out in seconds. But how do we deal with the private sector? He also told me to ‘suck my nuts’. What do I do about that?”
Staffer: “Better not join the squirrel appreciation society”.
Rudd: “We’ll have to enact legislation when we are in government to control this kind of thing. You - put out a press release to that effect.”
Several hours later….
Staffer: “Kevin, the ‘Aardvark’ has put your name on the front cover. Here it is - right on top of a picture of a grey squirrel”.
Posted by mr creosote on 2007 07 14 at 08:11 AM • permalink164 I could not agree more strongly, yet Yusef & his ilk contend that it is a race… in which case are they not only forced into being foolishly wrong by the constrictions of their primitive ideology, but also that if he truly believes in the tenets of his religion, he stands behind the idea of it being supreme over all others & finally through the actions of its adherents, wiping all others off the face of the earth. In racial terms he speaks of, that is a racial supremecist view ending with genocide.
The point I was trying to make, though I probably wasn’t too clear, is that whichever side of the argument you look at it from, facts, meanings & definitions really mean little to people such as Yusef. The arguments always seem to be chocka with corrupted logic and hypocritical projection, no matter what their subject is. And the careful choice of words, the wordgames & double meanings that they employ so often shows a cynical awareness on their part that they are doing it.
Posted by stahlblume on 2007 07 14 at 08:40 AM • permalink#164 arrowhead ripper
Islam is not a race. It’s a choice.
Yeah. The last thing Ash wants to hear when she gives birth: “congratulations, it’s a muslim.”
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 07 14 at 09:08 AM • permalink#164, #169 Indeed Irf insists this.
My guess is he is playing with a definition of ‘race’ in anti-discrimination law (which applies to employment only) and my guess is that behind this (apart from a personal vendetta against Tim) is a desire to get some religious vilification laws up in NSW with the same definition - i.e. defacto blasphemy laws. This was hinted at MW as well during the ABC Media Watch carry-on.
Here are Irf’s comments at my blog:
Actually, for many people, being Muslim is an essential part of their ethnic identity. For instance, in the Malaysia, being Malay and being Muslim go hand-in-hand. Hence when Malays leave the Islamic faith, they lose the privileges that legally accrue to Malays.
Also, in Bosnia, there are three ethnic groups - Serbs, Croats and Muslims.
To claim that Islam is a religion and therefore Muslims can be vilified for being Muslims is a cop-out. If someone wants to criticise or even lampoon Islam, they can be my guest. In this post-religion age, all religious can be attacked. But to vilify certain people because of some presumed cultural trait arising from their deemed cultural Islam is racism pure and simple.
To me that means he also supports the insitutionalised racism and lack of religious freedom in Malaysia - one is actually BORN a Muslim in Malaysia if you are native Malay. And you CAN’T leave Islam in Malaysia whether you were born into it or converted.
There was always no victim in Press Release Published-gate, and therefore no reason for anyone to give a shit.
On the other hand, the Irf has published false accusations about Tim, failed to change his mind when the facts became available to him, failed to apologise for his errors, and now looks like a pillock.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 14 at 10:59 AM • permalink#172 - so what irf the serf is saying is that:
He supports the institutionalised racism of Malaysia that does not allow any ethnic Malay to convert to a religion of their choice?
He support the destruction of churches and other non-Islamic places of worship.
He supports honour killings, beheading and other brutal violence in the name of Islam.
Irf the serf, needs turfing out if that’s his attitude.
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2007 07 14 at 05:59 PM • permalink#175 - That’s how I read it too. I asked Irf on my blog to clarify but he didn’t. And I suspect ‘vilify’ can mean any criticism (when taken in a Keysar like context)
Irf is Aussie born so you can’t turf him out anyway (and I for one am not in favour of even revoking citizenship for foreign born Aussie citizens). Besides which, in this day of technology and globalisation “turfing someone out” doesn’t really stop the infection from spreading. It is also easier in countries like ours to expose and counter such nonsense. And if Aussie Muslims themselves can’t flush out the extremists in their midst for fear of not-another-death-threat (or, if you have been reading Muslim Village, because only “scholars” can determine whether dingbats like the Hizb are OK or not…don’t let the layperson think for themselves), there are significantly more non-Muslims amongst us who will do it for them. :-)
169, 172. I did not realize Mr Yusuf was calling Islam a race. You don’t think he means a race to the bottom?
So “ethnics” is most apt!
OTOH I just asked the imam (TM) what happens to people who see Islam as a choice and say, “No, thanks.” And he said: ” ‘Whosoever changes his Deen [faith], then kill him.’ This only apply to the males. A female renegade will not be killed, rather kept imprisoned until she accepts Islam.”
Hm.. so I guess Muslimism is a decidedly less voluntary choice than say being a Scientologist.Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 07 14 at 07:30 PM • permalinkFrom Update VII: “Someone with his degree of chronic racist hate and in-bred stupidity can only get a job in a cheap 2nd rate paper that I use to wipe my arse with when I run out of toilet paper.”
G’wan, Samer! I bet you don’t even use toilet paper; you probably just walk around with a hole cut in the seat of your britches. Or maybe you use corn cobs. In fact, I bet you prefer corn cobs.
#172 yes it’s a Malay protection racket. So Yusef claims Malay is a separate race now, moslem is also a race through association… so assumedly all moslems are therefore Malay? :) If there is such a tie, when you lose Malay citizenship, you also cease to be a moslem…
Someone should forcibly convert Yusef to the race of train-spotters by slipping a steam engine spotting sheet into his papers… there’s no going back from the race of train-spotters either. He’d be a half-breed for ever, spurned & outcast.
Posted by stahlblume on 2007 07 14 at 10:40 PM • permalinkI understand there has been some disquiet in Werribee about Tim Blair’s alleged use of coarse language over the phone to poor Irfan.
However, the Mayor of Werribee says there are no plans to cancel Tim’s coming home parade scheduled for later this year.
“The kids have been stockpiling rocks and half bricks for months now,” the Mayor commented. “Let’s just say that this cunt won’t get out of it that easily.”
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 07 14 at 10:44 PM • permalinkTim might be guilty of a lot of things, I’m pretty sure stupidity isn’t up there.
As for the drug accusation, I’m sure that’s a lie. Ad hominem. I guess he ran out of things to argue before this started. You’re very wrong, Irfan.I doubt Irfan is any kind of legal expert.
Fat and ugly are only skin deep, Irf, but stupid goes right to the bone.If hypothetically, Tim were a recovering cocaine addict and correct, and Irf were squeaky-clean and wrong, then for the purposes of the argument Tim would still be right and Irf wrong.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is why an ad-hominem attack is a logical fallacy. It is a pathetic failure to score, but it sounds good enough to fool idiots into thinking they’re winning.
#185
That, ladies and gentlemen, is why an ad-hominem attack is a logical fallacy
Sorry. I disagree.
If someone is a complete fuckwit, and I call them a fuckwit, providing numerous examples to back my allegation, I am correct. I win.
This whole “ad-hominem” thing is in my experience, largely a leftist concept whereby I am not allowed to call them fuckwits, even when a blindman can see that they are.
181. I have it on good authority that not only does Samer prefer corn cobs, Allah insists on them. It is written in the Korn.
Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2007 07 15 at 06:20 AM • permalink#185 When did logic enter into Samer’s argument?
Agreed ad hominen is a logical fallacy but it doesn’t mean it’s a wrong thing to do.
But then you have to be able to distinguish right from wrong, truth from falsehood.
In this case, Samer calling Tim a “chronic racist” etc is not just a logical fallacy, it is also false. Which means Samer is a liar.
Is calling Samer a liar ad hominen? Perhaps. But nevertheless true. :-)
I’m with Dan #186 on this.
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Is Irfan Yusuf really that stupid, or is he putting out intentional misinformation?
Irfan Yusuf, professional liar.