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POVERTY HISTORY MADE
Local charities were banned at Live 8 concerts:
Organizers have said local fundraising could “dilute the focus” of the concerts, which includes encouraging the world’s G8 leaders to eliminate the debt currently owed by African countries.
And in other history-making poverty news:
Live 8 performers are playing for free, but local organisers plan to shower the celebrities with a Hugo Boss duffel bag loaded with high-fashion trinkets valued at about $4,000.
They’ll also be able to add to their goodie bags with big-ticket items including Hugo Boss suits, valued at $1,000 to $1,310 each; XM satellite radios and subscriptions, $655; Gibson guitars, $2,600; Bertolucci watches, valued between $2,000 and $7,900; and other items.
In all, a celebrity could walk away with a bag of gifts worth as much as $15,700. “We want this to be a thank-you to the celebrities who are giving up their time and energies,” said Nicole Cashman, whose firm was tapped by Larry Magid’s Electric Factory Concerts to put the bags together.
That came from the ABC? Wow, someone really pissed them off, you’d expect them to be fawning over Bono. Still, Bill Gates has turned up at one of them, conservative governments support it, only a matter of seeing who had the most to lose I guess.
And really this sort of crap is to be expected, these people are only ever in it for themselves.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 03 at 12:07 AM • permalinkIt’s almost enough to make a guy grow cynical.
Posted by Mike Jericho on 2005 07 03 at 12:46 AM • permalinkNo wonder Geldof didn’t want anyone selling tickets on eBay. How could he cover his overhead?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 03 at 01:50 AM • permalink1. This is a useless exercise by aging rockstars with big egos and small brains.
2. Liberals/socialists/leftist have good intentions. Conservatives and libertarians have good results. So Live 8 makes the organizers and participants “feel” good, but makes no permanent, long term, lasting influence on Africa, or anywhere else.
3. Africa needs 3 things:
a. Faith in God (10 Commandments, monogamy, no prostitution, no promiscuous sex, 2 parent families, helping hand to your neighbor, etc.)
b. Free markets (free trade, free flow of capital, etc.)
c. Free legal-political syste (a rule of law, property rights, representative democracy)That will solve its problems.
4. Here is a MUST READ - satire with a lot of truth:
(a) Export Rock and Rap to Solve Africa’s Problems
(b) Africa’s Relief Aid Tied to Cannibalism
June 12 and June 14, 2005 posts. You can read the posts at his blog which you can link to from his name in the name field. I have removed the redundant url. NOTE: if you are reading this site at your place of work, dtlc’s website is NOT WORK SAFE. Andrea Harris, Administrator.
Excellent, God, another reason for them to kill each other. Hell, they already do.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 03 at 02:25 AM • permalinkdtlc, I’ve told you before not to use the comments for free advertizing. If you want to advertize on Tim’s site, pay for a goddamn blogad.
Update: and I’ve told you before, warn people that your blog is NOT WORK SAFE. Some people read this site at work. Have some respect.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 07 03 at 02:25 AM • permalinkAfrica has been a basket case for at least 150 years. Even Charles Dickens lampooned Africa-do-gooders, in the character of Mrs Jellyby in Bleak House (1853)—
But no, they knew nothing whatever about Mrs. Jellyby. “In-deed! Mrs. Jellyby,” said Mr. Kenge, standing with his back to the fire and casting his eyes over the dusty hearth-rug as if it were Mrs Jellyby’s biography, “is a lady of very remarkable strength of character who devotes herself entirely to the public. She has devoted herself to an extensive variety of public subjects at various times and is at present (until something else attracts her) devoted to the subject of Africa, with a view to the general cultivation of the coffee berry—AND the natives…”
...
She was a pretty, very diminutive, plump woman of from forty to fifty, with handsome eyes, though they had a curious habit of seeming to look a long way off. As if—I am
quoting Richard again—they could see nothing nearer than Africa!...
“You find me, my dears,” said Mrs. Jellyby, snuffing the two great office candles in tin candlesticks, which made the room taste strongly of hot tallow (the fire had gone out, and there was nothing in the grate but ashes, a bundle of wood, and a poker), “you find me, my dears, as usual, very busy; but that you will excuse. The African project at present employs my whole time. It involves me in correspondence with public bodies and with private individuals anxious for the welfare of their species all over the country. I am happy to say it is advancing. We hope by this time next year to have from a hundred and fifty to two hundred healthy families cultivating coffee and educating the natives of Borrioboola-Gha, on the left bank of the Niger.”
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 07 03 at 03:16 AM • permalinkThere’s a very interesting letter in Mark Steyn’s Mailbox from someone who works for a charity which delivers food aid and provides education in an unnamed West African country.
As I write, one of our volunteers is in that country trying to secure the release of a vehicle we sent over - a 14-year-old SUV we picked up for about $1500Cdn. We need it to deliver food and supplies to our school in a rural village. Anyway, the customs officials want about $8000 to release it, even though we have a letter from that country’s Canadian consulate stating we are a charity and the truck is for charitable use.
Doubtless these tariffs will increase as a result of Live8.
If Bob’n'Bono and friends are so sure they know how to fix Africa’s problems, they deserve a chance to do it themselves. Here’s my suggestion: each one of them takes an African nation on a long-term lease, say ten to fifteen years. All the country’s debts are cleared as of the start of the lease, but from that point on they aren’t entitled to another cent of foriegn aid. Bob’s Band would be permitted only to a) use the funds they can reclaim from the Swiss bank accounts of the assorted crooks and thugs in the government and bureaucracy, or b) dig into their own pockets. They can still record and tour if they want, but progress reports would have to be submitted annually to the UN (where else?). At the end of the lease they walk away with no claims to compensation or redress for loss of income and refusing any honours said populace, undoubtedly grateful, might wish to shower upon them. Sound fair?
Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2005 07 03 at 05:59 AM • permalinkThe ABC’s take on criticism of Live 8:
‘Musician Peter Gabriel stepped in with a separate, smaller gig for African performers and Johannesburg was added to the list of venues but that has not been enough to prevent Geldof’s detractors from accusing him of “cultural apartheid”.’
‘Cultural apartheid’ - from Geldof’s detractors. That’s criticism, ABC-style.
A few motherhood statements, and then:
’ “I don’t believe it will do any good,” said 18-year-old Nir Livneh in the London crowd. “It won’t stop poverty in Africa.” ’ ... ‘Edward Romoki, yelling over a booming hip-hop act, said: “Maybe a concert like this can put Africa in the news and change things.” ’ ... ‘16-year-old Hugo Viollier sat on the grass drinking beer with friends. “I came because it’s free and not very far from where I live,” he said. “I didn’t even know it had anything to do with Africa until you told me but that’s a good thing.” ‘
ABC turns to beer-drinking 16 year old child ignorant of an aging left-inspired hypocrite’s guilt festival and calls it criticism.
Like most people I want to do everything I can to persuade the G8 leaders to make huge commitments to the relief of poverty and increased aid to the third world. It’s crazy that America gives such a paltry percentage of its GNP to the starving nations.
~ David Gilmour ~“Oh, and by the way, which one’s pink?”, indeed.
With Roger Waters no less. Doing Money no less. Comfortably Numb and Wish You Were Here were nice additions though.
I’m of the opinion that to be a brilliant musician, you have to be a clueless lefty. There are exceptions of course (Hendrix in the early years, at least, was a clueless right winger), but for the most part it holds true.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 03 at 08:00 AM • permalinkYep, I’ve long accepted the fact that nearly all of my artistic heroes are politically ignorant, out of touch loons.
Posted by James Waterton on 2005 07 03 at 09:24 AM • permalink“Faith in God (10 Commandments, monogamy, no prostitution, no promiscuous sex, 2 parent families, helping hand to your neighbor, etc.)”
Um, none of those things requires faith in a god (well, except the first three commandments, which are inapplicable to humans anyway.) I’m an atheistically-leaning agnostic, and I’m faithful to my wife, don’t steal, lend a hand when needed, etc etc etc.
Religiosity is not a prerequisite to morality. Check the statistics on the number of Christians and atheists in prison compared to the general population.
ilibcc—On that abc link Mandela says if the G8 countries don’t do( as he says) then they are committing a crime against humanity.!!!!!!!
Well now we’ve come full circle again- the leaders of g8 countries,especially Bush and Blair- should be hauled into the International courts and prosecuted.
Nelson is very old and no doubt affected by his imprisonment but for someone who pushes forgiveness in safrica he’s getting a might ornery.This is why I inspect my charities very closely. Musicians may donate their performances, but are the equipment, venue, utilities, security, etc. also donated? What about costs for moving everything around? Were all those luxury items in those goodie bags donated? Enquiring minds and careful pockets want to know.
Do i really need a Gstring strummer to “raise my awareness about Africa”?
Or is this another round of mental masturbation similar to that constantly emmited by university academics?
How can these guys feel oh so good about giving away other folks money?
Why don’t they just open their over inflated wallets themselves to satify their over inflated egos.
Soon we’ll have bouts of
Beer drinking for Africa
Fasting for Africa
Sex marathons for Africa
Perhaps it’s a delayed guilt trip for stealing all that pop music from American Black blues artists.Dave S. — Finding Jaysus in stir looks good on your parole application. Skews the curve.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 07 03 at 01:04 PM • permalinkMore on Bono
That isn’t work safe by the way.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 03 at 01:14 PM • permalinkOh, it’s named that because of the G8? And here I was wondering why I’d never heard about Live Aids 2-7…
More bashing of Bono et al. here.
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2005 07 03 at 01:44 PM • permalinkBono Brand Replica Cross is pure genius.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 03 at 01:56 PM • permalinkCopy and paste this as timblair.net screws up links with Querystrings
http://www.edthesock.com/index.php?name=News&file=print&sid=87Rob Read, I’ve known about the Irish tax exemptions for artists since I was a teenager, and that’s quite some time ago. A lot of writers and such moved to Ireland for just that reason.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 07 03 at 04:07 PM • permalinkSorry Andrea,
I just can’t beleive the audacity of them! Lobbying to spend taxpayers money on debt relief when they don’t pay any themselves!
I just want to keep reminding people, and hope the news of popstar hypocrisy spreads. Posturing wankers the lot of them.
Live 8 is like calling a petrol tanker to a fire!
Oh and compassion is soo yesterday (for an idea of what Live 8 will achieve V what lowering trade barriers with Africa would do)!
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2005/07/compassion-is-soo-yesterday.html
Well, I can choose not to spend my money just like I’ve chosen not to watch this thing on tv. As well, these people do tend to give a lot to charity themselves. Of course simply throwing money at a problem isn’t enough, especially when it comes to Africa, and you are right that the problems in Africa aren’t caused by other countries simply being wealthier. Unfortunately it’s easier to posture and make a lot of speeches when it comes to places like most of Africa, because otherwise they’d have to face the fact that there really isn’t a whole lot the wealthy nations of the world can do for the people there that doesn’t involve surgical air strikes, and that would only remove the current crop of thugs and thieves. Most of Africa’s internal problems can only be solved by Africans, and as long as there are rich white people across the sea willing to take the blame for something they didn’t do Africa will continue to be fucked up.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 07 03 at 05:14 PM • permalinkYou know they never seemed to be able to mention all the curruption and bad governance of people like Mugabe. Instead it was bash the G8s. I guess “white man’s burden” is the new policy of the left.
Posted by Andrew Ian Dodge on 2005 07 03 at 07:37 PM • permalink“Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries” -Douglas Casey
Posted by Tommy Shanks on 2005 07 03 at 07:54 PM • permalinkThose Gibsons will probably have some sort of a commemorative motif or plate affixed as well, and be worth more than list price straight up; in time, they will be cllectable, and worth a bundle. If Saddam had’ve had a celebrity shredder, I could have put up with his appalling taste in soft furnishings.
Just to clear up a couple of mistaken points made in this discussion:
Bono, U2, and other artists in Ireland do not pay “no income tax” - Irish artists enjoy tax breaks on their publishing income, but pay tax on “concert tours and CD sales” (whihc, from what I understandd, are often the most profitable sources for large acts). See http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=3949
It is simply not true that “they never seemed to be able to mention all the curruption [sic] and bad governance of people like Mugabe.” See Bono on MSNBC’s Meet The Press last week:
“This is the number-one problem facing Africa, corruption; not natural calamity, not the AIDS virus. This is the number-one issue and there’s no way around it.” (see the transcript at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8332675/)
There’s a lot of pretty unpleasant cynicism on display in many of the comments here - more power to you folks, but you may as well get your facts straight!
Bono does seem to have a better grasp on the issues than he used to. I also noticed a distinct lack of Bush bashing. I think Geldof, who’s been relatively even handed about Bush, warned alot of knuckleheads to watch their mouths.
That said, Bono and Geldof still seem to be unable to realise that violence is the only method by which the people of Africa can be freed from the tyrannical ruling despots.
I also noticed a distinct lack of Bush bashing. I think Geldof, who’s been relatively even handed about Bush, warned alot of knuckleheads to watch their mouths.
It was either Bono or Geldof who flat out said it’s Bush who has done more for Africa than any other US president yet. I hope they are able to accomplish some good, but while the crooks have the reigns in Africa no amount of aid or debt relief will solve the problem.
For those of us wanting more unpleasant cynicism, there are some great articles in today’s Australian:
Stars’ net worth won’t save Africa
OVER the past 40 years, the West has given $US450 billion in aid to Africa. The result? Africans are now poorer, on average, than they were 40 years ago. Child mortality has gone up, not down. Life expectancy is shorter. African politicians and bureaucrats export money back to Western economies almost as fast as the West hands it to them, reinvesting 40 per cent of the continent’s wealth overseas - a large portion of it in Swiss bank accounts.Oh Lord, this will mean more Mercs for jerks
Of the pound stg. 14million Swaziland gets in foreign aid, pound stg. 9million goes on the king’s balls, picnics, parties - and cars. Yet 70 per cent of Swazis languish in absolute poverty and four out of 10 have HIV/AIDS.Forgive us for being cynical, but we’ve seen it all before.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 07 04 at 12:33 AM • permalinkI guess I don’t see the point of being cynical about an event like this - is it really that clever to point out that events like this won’t save people in and of themselves, or that corruption is a huge problem that must be addressed for any aid/debt cancellation to make much difference. Not only are these facts basic common sense, but they’ve been part of the discussion surrounding Live 8 pretty much from the begining.
It seems to me that Live 8 is about raising the awareness of the broader public in the West. Sure, many of the subtleties of the problem get lost in the painful on-stage banter, but what do you expect - it’s a rock concert! More to the point, these are rock stars - why any reasonable person would expect them to have a fully-realised plan for ending poverty is beyond me. I suspect that no one on this forum could claim to have such a plan, and it hasn’t stopped us from joining the debate.
Yes, corruption is a huge problem; yes, financial assistance given without some measures to ensure it gets into the right hands is counter-productive. But those are problems that the G8 leaders are in a position to address (or at least attempt to address). Live 8 was about demonstrating that there is significant public support for that effort.
Now if you want cynicism, let’s talk about that god-awful performance from Duran Duran…
The good thing about democracy is that we don’t all have to agree. I tried to watch Live 8 but the artists couldn’t seem to just play, they had to talk. I don’t agree with many of their comments and find them almost imbecilic. That said, more power to Bob Geldof and others for bringing attention to a part of the world that needs it.
I don’t have the answers for Africa and I suspect that nobody does presently. It is a whole bunch of problems and we have to tackle them one at a time. Having the will to tackle them is a start. The present policy of the world at large seems to be to hope that they all kill each other which is one solution but I trust not the “final” one.
Bono is not only talking with some sense, but also prasing Bush… when did I fall into a mirror universe where the world has gone all wrong?
If this is what he’s saying, why isn’t it the biggest thrust of the entire thing, holding Africa accountable? Because it doesn’t sit well with their ultra lefty mates? Shouldn’t we all be focused on treating the problem and not the damn symtoms?
It’s a somewhat conservative world right now, we’re waiting for someone in the position with the balls to say “this is what we need to do to really help Africa, now lets go do it”.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 04 at 02:01 AM • permalinkScuffs, I apologise for being a tad flippant in my earlier post. My view is that aid does not improve income levels. Indeed, this recent study shows that aid actually reduces annual GPD growth per capita. It also concludes that aid to countries with better governance does not appear to work either.
East Germany is an interesting case. In spite of over US$1 trillion of ‘aid’ from the West, the East German economy is still a mess. Additionally, the most successful Asian economies in the last 50 years have not relied on aid, rather they appear to owe their success to free trade, free markets and small government with (relatively) low levels of corruption.
In my opinion, the only option to reduce third world poverty would be a sort of neo-colonialism where security, democracy, free markets, and efforts to reduce corruption would be imposed by foreign military intervention (which needless to say, would be extrememly unpalatable to everyone).
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 07 04 at 02:07 AM • permalinkBruce Anderson gets tough on Live8 and Geldof in The Times:
P. J. O’Rourke said that American actresses’ political views fall into three categories: silly, very silly and Shirley MacLaine. For pop stars, it is silly, very silly and Bob Geldof. He must be disappointed that some other group has already taken the name Simple Minds.
Ouch.
Posted by Villeurbanne on 2005 07 04 at 02:16 AM • permalinkThis is the most effective (in both cost and result) form of aid that could be donated to Africa, and what’s more it would be directed to the very same palaces and Maybachs where all the current cash aid winds up. I’ll kick in a green beer voucher to get a campaign going- who else is in? Zimbabwe seems like a wonderful place to start.
There’s an old Chinese proverb:
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
That sums up the reasons for my cynicism with perpetual aid going into Africa. It’s a form of international welfare, and all it does is to maintain the poverty of Africans, and the lavish lifestyles of their leadership.
My cynicism with Live8 is from the naive approach to solving the problems in Africa. In effect, they are saying “We’re too lazy to do anything but write checks!”, and “Well, only the G8 can solve this problem!” Other commenters have posted at length on this. I can only say phooey on both.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 04 at 02:30 AM • permalinkNo apology necessary, ArtVandelay - i realise i may have hijacked what had been a relatively flippant conversation.
The points you make about aid are interesting, and while i don’t entirely agree, i think it’s a conversation that must be had.
I think, though, that it’s a false dichotomy that sets up Live 8/Geldof/Bono etc. as blindly pro-aid vs the realistic, anti-aid Right. Live 8 is about getting the issue on the table (something that I think it has arguably done very well). The debate about what steps would be most effective can now be engaged, with the knowledge that a significant number of Western citizens are happy for their governments to contribute generously to a workable solution.
Thanks, scuffs. The problem, though, is the same old one—in all the enthusiasm to “do something” the do-gooders aim straight for the safest target: Daddy Corporatebucks. Focusing on the G8 conference as the should-be savior of the Third World just gives people another excuse to say “look, the rich white man is ignoring the plight of Africa!” and they think they’ve accomplished something by uttering this tired old saw. As for “raising awareness,” if awareness was raised any higher it would be orbiting Pluto. The only people who are unaware of the vast problems in Africa are either dead or so stupid they might as well be.
It’s not entirely Bono’s fault his more sensible observations haven’t been noticed as much. For one thing, it’s difficult to go into detail about political corruption and free trade markets while you’re on a stage at a rock concert—“end poverty now!” is short and to the point, sort of like “hello, Cleveland!” Also, he has to depend on our old friends the mainstream press to get his statements out, and are you really surprised that they haven’t brought too much notice to his positive statements about the Great Satan Bush? And if the U2 fan list I belong to is any indication, the bulk of U2’s fans aren’t interested in hearing such things from him either.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 07 04 at 02:46 AM • permalinkIt’s done a bang-up job of raising the profile of has-beens and superannuated hippies, to a lesser extent awareness of AIDS in Afghanistan (according to some of the idiots present when interviewed), also keeping a sub-standard factory and its exploited employees going in China knocking out ugly, tacky and polluting plastic wrist bands and filled the export order books at Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz (armoured divisions) for the next few months. A partial success is always better than none at all, isn’t it?
Thanks for the very polite debate Scuffs, it doesn’t happen often around here.
To get the flippancy back on track, JeffS’ quote reminded me of another:
Give a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 07 04 at 03:03 AM • permalinkin all the enthusiasm to “do something” the do-gooders aim straight for the safest target: Daddy Corporatebucks. Focusing on the G8 conference as the should-be savior of the Third World just gives people another excuse to say “look, the rich white man is ignoring the plight of Africa!” and they think they’ve accomplished something by uttering this tired old saw.
Andrea, are you arguing that the eight richest nations in the world are not in a position to do anything to help the Third World? I’m totally open to “teach a man to fish” arguments, but they carry with them a committment to do something, and as i’ve said, i don’t think that Live 8 is so much about coming up with a specific plan, as it is endorsing the search for that plan.
As for the need to raise awareness, Habib puts it quite well i think:
It’s done a bang-up job of raising the profile of has-beens and superannuated hippies, to a lesser extent awareness of AIDS in Afghanistan (according to some of the idiots present when interviewed)
Clearly there are still people out there who are not aware of this issue, and while we can argue about whether Live 8 has been effective in alerting those people, it seems pretty clear that the target audience is not the politically-aware blog commenters of society.
perhaps what we really need is an
“AUDITORS FOR AFRICA”
concert?
Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2005 07 04 at 03:12 AM • permalinkYes, scuffs, thanks for the meaningful points and valid questions. Open and intelligent debate is welcome here, in spite of what others might say.
The debate about what steps would be most effective can now be engaged, with the knowledge that a significant number of Western citizens are happy for their governments to contribute generously to a workable solution.
Perhaps I’m just nitpicking here, but it’s important to point out that this is not a new problem. Africa has been on the international radar screen for a long time, and has been hotly debated before (e.g., Sudan, Zimbabwe, Ruwanda, and Biafra, to name but a few of the hot spots from that continent).
If we add in the need for relevant debate, I agree. By relevant, I mean all options are on the table, not just further years of debate in the United Nations. This has festered long enough.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 04 at 03:23 AM • permalinkThe UN is probably the worst blockage for Africa’s revival there is in our age, here’s an organization that rewards Africa’s despots.
Live 8 should have had Mugabe’s picture on the screen with some laser guided love aimed at his head. If the MSM fails then drag the people out and show them yourself, not even the MSM can ignore that.
They got the people out, but didn’t show them anything. Too many people sit there blaming rich white people, oblivious of the major problem of corrupt black people.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 04 at 03:49 AM • permalinkCorrupt AND crazy, don’t forget crazy; some of these fruitcups are certifiable, Bob o’ the Benz being a prime example. Mix in some half-baked marxist twaddle thanks to Ruskie subversion for forty years and you’ve got the makings of some terminal regimes and systems of government. I think they’re beyond repair, and need replacement.
It seems to me that Live 8 is about raising the awareness of the broader public in the West.
That’s really part of the problem though. The people who end up having their awareness about the plight of Africa raised generally fall into two groups: spiteful far-lefties who make Bono look like Heinrich Himmler and who now have “official permission” to use Africa as the newest club to bash white people in general and conservatives in particular with; and clueless ignorants of all ideological persuasions whose awareness of Africa will drop back to zero the minute that Live 8 disappears from the TV news.
In other words, IMHO the number of sensible and useful people influenced by these concerts is fairly miniscule. Hence the frequent charge that this whole thing is nothing but ego masturbation for most of the artists involved.
And if anyone really thinks the G8 nations will change their African policy one whit due to these concerts, I have some beachfront property in Mali to sell them.
We don’t want to overwhelm them with new information, Habib, too much and they’ll go into shock.
And yes, most countries need a complete purge of their systems, I’d suggest redoing borders as well, cut down on the civil wars over who has control if you don’t have two tribes who hate each other in the one place.
That said, an enforced peace under threat of having your country turned to glass for the next, say, 30 years might be required as well. They’ll be less likely to slaughter each other when the time is up as they’ll have something meaningful to lose by then.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 04 at 05:31 AM • permalinkRe, #64: I agree; I’m more interested in seeing a non-UN debate, with a limit of, say, 60 days. We have all the facts, we don’t need any more studies, all we need do is select a course of action and execute it.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 04 at 05:32 AM • permalinkStep One:
You only get a vote in the UN if you have won the approval of your population via democratic elections - otherwise why have votes in the UN?
Step Two:
Actually do something about transgressors. Put whole countries into “administration” the same way we do with disfunctional local councils.
Are we into the realms of fantasy yet?In the odd circumstances where actual food aid has made it onto the ground, it has usually made any civil disturbance worse. It frees up combatants from the need to grow food and tend lifestock, it provides a means of trade to purchase ordnance and can be used as a weapon when witheld. It’s going to take a re-alignment of borders accompanied by dissolution of existing “governments” (goombahs is a closer description) and appointment of administrators to bring these dumps into the current century- Halliburton could handle the job, IMHO.
(Bwaahaahaaa- the game is afoot!)
#70.
Step 0:
You only get debt relief and zero tarrifs if you:
A) Hold democratic elections.
b) Allow proper regional government (one government per demos).
c) Protect Individual (REAL) Rights.
d) Have a clean(ish) outside audit of government.
e) Remove and Prosecute corrupt officials.
f) Return countries mineral wealth to it’s citizens (does NOT mean state ownership!).
g) Balance the budget (low/no M3).
h) They agree NEVER to borrow off the backs of their citizens again, only offer bonds backed by state owned land.Habib,
and don’t forget, the trucks that take the food in are “retained” by the faction with the most guns and then used to ethnically cleanse those without the guns.
Posted by Young and Free on 2005 07 04 at 06:59 AM • permalinkIn 1989 Graham Hancock wrote Lords of Poverty, a book in which he exposed the scandal that was then and is today, international aid. He wrote—
Although it is the subject of a pious literature, and is credited with saintly and humanitarian motives, foreign aid often keeps strange and brutal company. In Mexico and Zaire, in the Philippines and Haiti, thieves and murderers, psychopaths and cheats have all been amongst its bedfellows. Elsewhere it has consistently bestowed its favours upon the big battalions. Big corporations big and wasteful projects, big, ambitious, absurd development plans, big ideas, and big bureaucracies have all flourished thanks to aid’s bounty. Meanwhile local-level initiatives, relevant and realistic strategies, and the energy and enterprise of the poor in the Third World have been ignored….
To continue with the charade seems to me to be absurd. Garnered and justified in the name of the destitute and the vulnerable, aid’s main function in the past half-century has been to create and then entrench a powerful new class of rich and privileged people. In that notorious club of parasites and hangers-on made up of the United Nations, the World Bank, and the bilateral agencies, it is aid—and nothing else—that has provided hundreds of thousands of ‘jobs for the boys’ and that has permitted record-breaking standards to be set in self-serving behaviour, arrogance, paternalism, moral cowardice, and mendacity. At the same time, in the developing countries, aid has perpetuated the rule of incompetent and venal men whose leadership would otherwise be utterly non-viable; it has allowed governments characterised by historic ignorance, avarice, and irresponsibility to thrive; last but not least, it has condoned—and in some cases facilitated—the most consistent and grievous abuses of human rights that have occurred anywhere in the world since the dark ages.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 07 04 at 07:05 AM • permalinkAnd another: The Development Set by Ross Coggins (c), 1976:
Excuse me, friends, I must catch my jet
I’m off to join the Development Set;
My bags are packed, and I’ve had all my shots
I have traveller’s checks and pills for the trots!The Development Set is bright and noble
Our thoughts are deep and our vision global;
Although we move with the better classes
Our thoughts are always with the masses.
In Sheraton Hotels in scattered nations
We damn multi-national corporations;
injustice seems easy to protest
In such seething hotbeds of social rest.
We discuss malnutrition over steaks
And plan hunger talks during coffee breaks.
Whether Asian floods or African drought,
We face each issue with open mouth.
We bring in consultants whose circumlocution
Raises difficulties for every solution—
Thus guaranteeing continued good eating
By showing the need for another meeting.The language of the Development Set
Stretches the English alphabet;
We use swell words like “epigenetic”
“Micro”, “macro”, and “logarithmetic”It pleasures us to be esoteric—
It’s so intellectually atmospheric!
And although establishments may be unmoved,
Our vocabularies are much improved.
When the talk gets deep and you’re feeling numb,
You can keep your shame to a minimum:
To show that you, too, are intelligent
Smugly ask, “Is it really development?”
Or say, “That’s fine in practice, but don’t you see:
It doesn’t work out in theory!”
A few may find this incomprehensible,
But most will admire you as deep and sensible.
Development set homes are extremely chic,
Full of carvings, curios, and draped with batik.
Eye-level photographs subtly assure
That your host is at home with the great and the poor.
Enough of these verses - on with the mission!
Our task is as broad as the human condition!
Just pray god the biblical promise is true:
The poor ye shall always have with you.Posted by walterplinge on 2005 07 04 at 07:13 AM • permalink‘Raising awareness’ - what an utterly stupid expression.
It seems like every twenty years or so the west must be reminded of the depradations of the world’s most hideous corners and the devils who lurk within them, as if it were our fault - and new generations of bright-eyed young westerners (some of whom are commenting in good faith right here) are rudely awakened - this time, and last, by noisy entertainers - to the idea that the salvation of the world is in their hands.
No, it’s not.
The only future in your hands, western Y/Z generations - is your own.
Africa can rot.
And the way it is going, probably should.
Until it saves itself.
This thread started with common sense - a reference to Alan Kohler’s comments; and shortly after, someone referring to Mrs Jellyby in Dickens.
Fundraising is fine for the local church where the funds go to the old lady down the road who lost her husband after the war.
It’s not fine where the money funds corrupt depots.
Odd that western musicians can’t see the difference.
But that’s probably because their eyes are not on solving poverty but in bringing down western capitalism.
Using African poverty as an ambit claim.
Have you read this thread all the way down?
Poverty and desperation breed extremism, when the Middle East finally gets democracy and stability, where do you think the Bin Ladens will go for fresh meat to strap bombs on to? Not to mention what would happen if a despot somehow got his hands on one of Russia’s old nukes and decided to wipe out one of his enemies. This is for all our sakes.
“Africa can rot” indeed.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 04 at 07:56 AM • permalinkMost terrorists are from the educated middle classes, addled by rhetoric- even in the West. The Baader-Meinhoff gang were all spoilt, rich arseholes, not downtrodden Turks from the VW plant in Berlin. The desperate poor can’t afford a pointy stick, let alone flying lessons for 767s. The huddled masses rising up against the rich oppressors is a marxist fantasy (or more accurately, wet dream).
That’s right, Habib. But most terrorist funding comes from despots, corrupt officials, and dictators. Not to mention safehavens for operations and training bases, plus a front to obtain supplies and weapons, or just to launder funds.
Take out a dictator, and you deny a terrorist group the financial and logistical support it needs to remain effective.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 07 04 at 09:14 AM • permalinkAnother cynic here. There is nothing more to be gained by trying to raise western nations’ awareness of the plight of Africans. African governments and movements need to help African countries. The sediment has been repeated a few times here, however if western money was the answer, then there would have been great improvements already. ...and they are not there to be seen.
Sure, removing debt, and removing trade barriers is important for African countries to have a go. Bob seems to be savy on this and that anti-bush grand standing would be counter-productive.
Just why does the concert have to be the usual left-wing view that the existence of rich countries/people/companies/whatever is some sort of injustice that should automatic incur guilt. Sheeesh!
Please, please bring on the south park conservatives.
They’ve already used people with Down’s Syndrome, what’s to stop them using a staving African on the promise of food? How’s he to know the clothes he just got are filled with explosives? If they don’t have food they probably don’t get CNN or FOX News either.
And as Jeff points out, it’s another source of funding and someplace to hide out. Take away their hiding spots and they can only run, should keep them busy until we catch up to them.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 04 at 10:42 AM • permalinkI didn’t say G8 countries couldn’t do anything, scuffs. I said that they (or rather, their pockets and that of the big corporations) were the safest targets for the Live 8 organizers to aim for. How much has been said by Live 8 performers or presenters about thugs like Robert Mugabe and how he and his henchmen have dragged one of Africa’s most fertile countries into near-famine, or how slavery still ravages the continent (and how it’s mainly Muslims who are the traffickers), or how the detritus from various offshoots of Marxism are ruining the place, or how certain aspects of many African cultures make the implementation of more practical political structures difficult? I haven’t watched the thing, but I am guessing very little, because all of the above means admitting that Africans are just as responsible for the mess they are in as their “former colonial masters,” and we know how well that goes down among the aid set.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 07 04 at 12:40 PM • permalinkAs I mentioned in my initial post, Andrea, Bono has seemed quite willing to talk about the political problems in Africa (see the Meet The Press transcript). If Robert Mugabe wasn’t at the centre of the discourse at the Live 8 events, I would say again that I think this was a very specificallly targeted event. I’m not sure that Western public opinion is going to go any way at all towards righting the issues that you mention (I’m sure we can both agree on that point), and Western public opinion is what these concerts were all about. There are certainly other things that can and should be done, byt Africans themselves and many others, but the only “political capital” that Western rock stars might be said to have is with their Western audience - why condemn them for using the one significant tool at their disposal?
Because they let the myth continue, Scuffs. Nothing we do is going to help Africa long term until the majority of the corruption is removed by force.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 07 05 at 12:53 AM • permalink
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ABSOLUTE FULL MARKS to A.B.C.‘s Alan Kohler this morning on business Insiders.
He started all guns firing in a BLISTERING critique of Live 8.
AT LAST the abc giving a politically disinterested and hands off opinion from a common sense perspective.
He said “Africans are being openly LOOTED by the elite”.
A small percentage of Africans are rich to the tune of trillions of dollars.Most Africans live on $3 a day.
In one country alone government ministers received $1500 dollars Monthly for fuel for their Mercedes Benz’.
“THE ONLY WAY OUT (Africa) IS TO HAVE A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY WITH PROPERTY RIGHTS AND TACKLING CORRUPTION”.
CONGRATULATIONS ALAN KOHLER WHO DESERVES A BRAVERY AWARD FOR TELLING THE TRUTH ON abc.