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PLANET DESTROYED TO SAVE PLANET
An interview with George Monbiot:
MONBIOT: It is becoming morally unacceptable now to fly to go on holiday. The carbon emissions per passenger mile are roughly the same from a plane as they are in a car, but while in a car you might travel 10,000 miles in a year, in a plane you travel 10,000 miles in a day. So individually, by taking a flight, you are doing more damage than you could possibly do by any other means, and your luxury is depriving other people of their necessities.
NEWSWEEK: Have you given up flying?
MONBIOT: The only reason for which I will fly is to campaign on climate change.
UPDATE. Also in Newsweek, but making more sense: Richard S. Lindzen.
Only 10,000 miles driven per year?
Fucking piker!
The average commute back and forth to work here in Atlanta will chew up that much milage.
Now count in going back and forth to the store for beer and pizza and porn and you can easily double that figure.
Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2007 04 09 at 01:09 PM • permalink#4
Moonbat is a typical Leftist “zero-sum-game” economist. Truly, it’s Gospel to them.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 04 09 at 01:44 PM • permalinkMonbiot = Moon bat, only in fwench, right?
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 04 09 at 02:11 PM • permalinkI guess that means you folks in Oz aren’t allowed to leave home. Ever. Or are the environazis going to permit ferry service between Sydney and Wellington, or maybe a monthly tugboat to Bali?
Personally I would be happy never to fly again; for our trip to Salt Lake City this coming July summer I even looked into railroad schedules. Unfortunately it is not only slower (36 hours as opposed to 3) it is a lot of more expensive, and Amtrak’s on-time
record is pretty poor. So we’ll be taking to the skies again - Delta, since their departure lounge at O’Hare does not have CNN blasting its wares at captive travelers.Posted by Sonetka's Mom on 2007 04 09 at 02:21 PM • permalinkMaybe we can arrange for Georgie to travel entirely by Greek cruise ships…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 04 09 at 03:03 PM • permalinkThat’s my governator, my liberal in conservative’s clothing, there on the cover. I’m so proud.
Moonbat’s not the only one advocating for the world-wide collapse of the tourist industry. Some
homegrown ‘biots concur:The first question is simply this: is it sustainable to regularly travel long distances, by plane or otherwise? If we want to care for the environment can we continue to holiday in the same way with a clear conscience?
“No,” says Associate Professor Stephen Wearing from the school of leisure, sport and tourism at the University of Technology, Sydney.
“The real ecotourist stays at home,” he says. “It’s the postmodern dilemma, isn’t it, because the amount of impact you have in just travelling to your destination is huge in terms of carbon emissions - and obviously the market’s cottoned on to that because you’ve got the carbon emission extra fee payments for airline tickets.”
Snip
A number of airlines and travel companies now offer offset options. One of these is Intrepid Travel, which on January 1 introduced compulsory offset fees of between $25 and $206 with its flights. (Intrepid offsets through Origin Energy. People wishing to check the company’s offset options can visit its website at http://www.origin.com.au.)
I’d be interested in knowing how this policy has impacted Intrepid’s bottom line.
And then there’s this gem from another of the newsweak GW storiesAn African Revolution:
But keep reading: a burgeoning green revolution is already helping Africans adapt, enriching barren soil, training farmers and providing them with hardy hybrid seeds, and working with the private sector to help farmers enter the marketplace. And these programs are more effective and cheaper than previous efforts.
Ethiopia has doubled its grain-food production in the last 12 years and may double it again. Last year Malawi, whose neighbors suffered food shortages, harvested twice the maize of the previous year. The explanation? National policies based on good science, providing farmers with fertilizer to overcome the lack of nitrogen and phosphorous in their soils and specially bred seeds that are higher yield and more pest- and drought-resistant.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Policies we conservatives have been trying to advance in the third world for decades (centuries, millennia) are now attributed to the nascent “green revolution” and as such are finally worthy of note and deserving of praise. We should thank Gaia that the greens came up with this whole “teach a man to plant” strategy. Wonder how they ever thought of it.
To newsweak’s credit (I guess), they give the ever sensible Richard Lindzen a voice.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 04 09 at 03:09 PM • permalinkIn other Gorebull Warmenizing news:
An entire 4-game series between the Cleveland Indians and the Seattle Mariners has now been snowed out. The Indians now have to go to Milwaukee (where the stadium has a roof on it) to play their next series.
#15 Kyda Sylvester
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Policies we conservatives have been trying to advance in the third world for decades (centuries, millennia) are now attributed to the nascent “green revolution” and as such are finally worthy of note and deserving of praise.
And notice how the Greenies’ howls of protest over genetically-engineered grain, the dreaded “frankenfoods!”, has disappeared in a puff of self-congratulatory smoke.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 04 09 at 03:57 PM • permalinkYou can tell ol’ George is no economist.
No, he’s an effing communist, where he expects us to throw money at his priorities….all the while living in the lap of his luxury.
Screw him!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 04 09 at 04:09 PM • permalink“by taking a flight, you are doing more damage than you could possibly do by any other means” ... “The only reason for which I will fly is to campaign on climate change.”
Jeezus Christ on a Crutch! The mind boggles.
“Too stupid to live” really should be a valid diagnosis.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut on 2007 04 09 at 05:15 PM • permalinkIs it okay if I fly from Toronto to Geothermia for green vacations?
Posted by andycanuck on 2007 04 09 at 05:37 PM • permalink...I was disappointed to hear about [Al Gore’s] personal energy use. At the same time, I think he has contributed as much to this issue as all other environmental campaigners put together.
That’s it: My next automobile will be a Hummer H1, with a Chevy Tahoe mounted on the roof. But I’ll put a Fight global warming sticker on the bumper, so that my own personal “environmental campaign” can buy me Monbiot’s approval.
#6 rhhardin;
I was always partial to the Aeronca 7AC. Cars on interstates pass you.
Cheyenne pass, headed east early one frosty morning. Watching a black smoke-belching VW bug slowly pass me, going in the same direction on Interstate 80 east of Rawlings.
Took 3 1/2 days to fly from Pope Valley, CA to Beck’s Grove, NY. No lights or radio on the 1946 7AC; the only electrics were the magnetos on the engine.
Sure did beat driving.
I vote for a compromise: fly out to where Monbiot is, then fit him with a pair of concrete shoes and introduce him to the East River. That will save the planet the massive amounts of C02 that he would obviously produce by breathing and flying everywhere to talk about global warming. As a bonus, his carcass will feed thousands of deprived marine and bacterial life.
Posted by Tungsten Monk on 2007 04 09 at 07:08 PM • permalinkIt is exceedingly frustrating to me the level of ignorance about climate change we are seeing from the average Hawaiian. Seems to me I have little choice but to go there again.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2007 04 09 at 07:08 PM • permalinkClassic quotes -
MONBIOT: “The only reason for which I will fly is to campaign on climate change.”
An American Major in Vietnam to journalist Peter Arnett: “It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.”
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2007 04 09 at 07:11 PM • permalinkHey Tim,
Did you catch this one?
Solomons Quake Destroys Delicate Marine Ecosystem!
Gaia is suicidal, I tell you. Upset at all the… climate. Just can’t take it anymore.
e. nough—don’t forget the charcoal grille on the tailgate. You don’t have to keep it lit while driving, but it’s a hoot to watch…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 04 09 at 08:12 PM • permalinkThe only reason for which I will fly is to campaign on climate change.
Well now let’s see: He doesn’t fly for any other business. Well that’s some sacrifice considering his business is
crapping on aboutcampaigning on climate change - and a lucrative racket it is too.But what about the holidays you may ask: Well that’s OK too because there are important GW conferences every year in Switzerland, Brazil, Japan, and who knows, maybe even Vegas.
So you see if you set yourself up right, this GW thing really is a win-win situation.
Ethiopia has doubled its grain-food production in the last 12 years and may double it again.
Which puts the beginning of the period in question back to 1995, when the first elected government took over after decades of Marxist rule.
Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2007 04 09 at 09:09 PM • permalinkWhat about leisure travel?
It is becoming morally unacceptable now to fly to go on holiday.Ah, good to see morals in a scientific debate.
Wait, what debate? Monbiot says so, so we must concur - join the “Logan’s Run” queue people, we must all die at age 30 and be harvested for our carbon. Recycle me now.
“The only reason for which I will fly is to campaign on climate change.”
Whoa .... Isn’t that a bit like fucking for virginity??
Posted by Jack from Montreal on 2007 04 09 at 09:29 PM • permalinkIt is becoming morally unacceptable now to fly to go on holiday. The carbon emissions per passenger mile are roughly the same from a plane as they are in a car, but while in a car you might travel 10,000 miles in a year, in a plane you travel 10,000 miles in a day.
Ya know, that may just settle my vacation plans. Fly out to Arizona, then drive out the southwest looking at the remains of a culture destroyed by climate change.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 04 09 at 09:31 PM • permalinkKey phrase here: “Per passenger mile.”
One person goes on holiday in a car, drives 250 miles each way. That’s 500 passenger miles, for one person.
A planeload of people - 200? - flies 10,000 miles. That’s fifty passenger miles per person. One hundred per person for round trip.
This dumbass didn’t even try to do the math. Flight is a MORE efficient form of transportation, not less.
But hey, what do I know? I’m just a logical RWDB who can add, subtract and divide.
I live under an airport approach corridor. Giant planes filled with rich human nougat slide overhead every few minutes. The older planes make a hellish racket, but they’re fewer than they used to be. (The noisiest plane EVER was a Soviet jet that delivered St. Gorbachev unto our land; when it took off the vibrations from the engines set off car alarms for a nine-mile radius, and to this day members of the Plasterer’s Union celebrate the visit with a yearly parade.)
Today I watched three giant planes soar over, each loaded with hundreds of people, and the planes were almost whisper quiet. I could sit outside and talk on the phone while they passed. I know this is just useless anecdotal speculation, but if the planes are quieter, something tells me that they might be more efficient as well.
Many of the jets are cargo planes, incidentally – FedEx and UPS, their bellies no doubt laden with goodies from Amazon. I’m tempted to order something by Monbiot just for the pleasure of having it delivered by the big silver shame-tube. And then send him a taunting letter, which of course would require transportation by similar means. Hell, if everyone outside of Britain sends him something to be autographed, we could bump his carbon footprint up to nine yards square.
All the lefty talking points, wrapped up in an add for his GW themed book. Hes well worth putting on the same podium as Al Gore.
“NEWSWEEK: Where do you come up with this 90 percent figure?
George Monbiot: It’s not an exact science.”
PACO Translation; Im pulling this out my arse…“What will happen if we don’t achieve that?
Hurricane Katrina was a glimpse of a possible future..”
PACO Translation; Thank christ a once in a generation storm, aided by shoddy earthworks, lets me talk about somewhere other than Bangladesh, after all they are just “brown” anyway…“But how much would all of this cost, and who would pay for it?
My rough estimate is about a 50 percent increase in energy costs..”
PACO Translation; Every single thing on earth takes energy to produce, transport, and dispose of, the multiplication factor on adding 50% tax to every stage will be phenominal, I am well off enough that it shouldnt force me to penupy but boy are you plebs screwed..“Don’t you think suggesting we virtually eliminate air travel is unrealistic? What’s the alternative?
There are lots of ways of engaging with people that don’t require business travel. For instance, a video link..”
PACO Translation; This will be perfect for everyone except me…“How optimistic are you that the world will take you seriously?
It’s pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.”
PACO Translation; Honks large red clown nose, shuffles accross the room and gets into a improbably small clown car, when it fails to start he lifts the hood. Dwarf clown creampies him in the face…..Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 04 09 at 10:37 PM • permalinkI pledge that the only reason for which I will fly is to deprive other people of their necessities.
Posted by alien kiwi on 2007 04 09 at 10:39 PM • permalinkmargos ...It is exceedingly frustrating to me the level of ignorance about climate change we are seeing from the average Hawaiian. Seems to me I have little choice but to go there again.
I agree Margos, we must go there again and find out for ourselves this terrible destruction. Pack your cosy and sunscreen and bring your grass skirt and while your there pack in your party dress.
Shocking this climate change!
I’m just five hours off the plane that flew me from Las Vegas, where it was warm, to Cincinnati, where it is freakin’ cold. As usual, it was a three and a half hour exercise in life as a sardine. If an obtuse, pretentious prick like Monbiot can do it, so can I. Too bad about all the necessities I stole from other people by indulging in my so-called luxury.
Speaking of Las Vegas, I wish I could send every moonbat in the world there for just one week. The World Capitol of Self Indulgence would either seduce them into a saner, more joyful response to life, or it kill them by apoplexy. Either result works for me.
My smugmeter is set on high - I’ve been walking to work - OK it’s only 800 metres from my front door to my workplace and yes my car is sadly very sick…..otherwise I would drive (for that extra few minutes at home) butI my carbon footprint is now down from Size 10 wide fitting to Size 8 and reducing with each breathless step
Posted by aussiemagpie on 2007 04 09 at 11:41 PM • permalink#48 - Lileks
I grew up living all over the place and developed a life long interest in aircraft. My father (a diplomat) and I used to trundle out to Moscow airport just to watch the TU-114s come in to land. They featured four engines with counter rotating propellers and, joy of joy for a kid, would deploy a parachute on landing to slow them down.
Later on we lived in Burma and every so often we’d go to the airport just to see the TU-154 land and take off. It was the noisiest thing imaginable. A lot of Russian planes would have to leave their landing gear down for quite a while after taking off in order for them to cool down enough so as not to start a fire in the wheel bay.
Posted by Jack Lacton on 2007 04 09 at 11:47 PM • permalinkCheck Phat Phil Adams latest :
He is talking about the environment and suddenly it is ‘DA JOOOOOOOS’:
“It is Bush who pushes this barrow, which has always included blind support for Israel. According to American evangelicals the existence of the Jewish state is a precondition for the Second Coming, and an opportunistic Israel isn’t going to say no to the backing of millions in the US. “
WTF?????????!!!!!!!!
NEWSWEEK: Where do you come up with this 90 percent figure?
George Monbiot: It’s not an exact science. But the probability suggests that if you have more than 450 parts per million of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, you are likely to have 2 degrees of climate change.Two lousy degrees? And for this every developed country has to reduce its carbon output by 90%? Well sorry George, I’m not buying it. Leave me to deal with the terrifying consequences of two degrees of warming, but leave my carbon footprint alone. Two degrees. Are you serious?
#63 - Jack:
Sounds like typical Soviet practicality; I’m surprised they didn’t impregnate the parachute cloth with gunpowder to save the workers the trouble of repacking it. Because they’d only screw it up, being drunk, and then it wouldn’t work. Better to ignite it.
Personally, I think the TUs were an offshoot of a bizarre Russian anti-constipation device. There’s no good reason they had to be that loud and that rumbly.
You know, we could all enjoy some greener travel miles if we just flew in zeppelins. Of course, the global warming would probably ignite the hydrogen. Damn that Bush!
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 04 10 at 12:41 AM • permalink#62 1.618
That trip to Hawaii - like a convention thingie? Two powerpoint presentations and an inspirational talk by Bryce Courtenay over a week and 2 weeks of swimming, partying, etc? I’m in!
Last time we were there in Waikiki we had brekkie on the beach outside the hotel on our last morning (champagne brekkie - bubbly with Macca’s)
Great memories
Posted by aussiemagpie on 2007 04 10 at 12:42 AM • permalinkJack
And then there is the AN-72 “Coaler”. After a few of the early production aircraft had engines blow-up in mid-flight, the pilots’ pre-takeoff procedures required running the engines at full power for one minute. If the engines did not explode, then it was safe to fly.Cheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2007 04 10 at 12:47 AM • permalinkNoisiest thing I’ve ever encountered (besides demented hippies with bullhorns, and Motorhead), was an Ilyushin 52*- a soviet knock-off of the dreadful and loud Vickers VC10. Polish airline LOT used to operate them, and you could hear the fuckers 10 miles out over Moreton Bay, shrieking like a banshee with its tits caught in a mangle. The only other things I’ve heard come close to that racket was a Caravelle from the ‘50s which used to wheeze its way to Noumea a couple of times a week, somehow never falling into a watery grave when its 4 million hour airframe disintergrated, and a Nimrod on a round-the world tour before decomissioning; these were based on the gravity-agreeing Comet, and which appeared to be powered by pulse jets salvaged from captured V1 missiles.
Jet turbine engines have progressed a tad since these howling kero-siphons.
*A few Pacific air cargo operators use an Ilyushin knock-off of a C130, the IL76, which has the added benefit of a bomb-aimers glazed nose, just the thing for lining up where to have a vodka-fueled slash out the central gun ports so you spray German tourists lolling on the beach below. I also was present for the first arrival of an Antonov freighter into Australia, carrying a section of the coal loader at Hay Point- bigger than a C5 Galaxy, and apparently made out of crushed beer cans. The crew had also spent the trip creating the raw materials for another aircraft, and were so advanced in this project they could barely stand.
From the article by Richard Lindzen:
Enron was a leading lobbyist for Kyoto because it had hoped to capitalize on emissions trading.
Heh! That ought to twist a whole bunch of panties into knots!
And I like the last paragraph:
Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His research has always been funded exclusively by the U.S. government. He receives no funding from any energy companies.
What is MSNBC doing, being so open? It’s unnatural, I tells ya!
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 04 10 at 12:53 AM • permalinkI wonder how many frequent liar miles Monidiot has racked up?
Posted by eeniemeenie on 2007 04 10 at 12:57 AM • permalink2 degrees of climate change?
“The year 2006 was sixth warmest on record, exceeded by 1998, 2005, 2003, 2002 and 2004.”
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/
Its still cooler than it was in 1998.Except for the dip in 1999,2000,2001 the temperature has flat-lined.
Its stopped getting warmer!!!
19980.546
19990.296
20000.27
20010.409
20020.464
20030.473
20040.447
20050.482
20060.42
And most of that “increase” has been in urban areas.And, 2006 is still only .4C over:
1878, 1939 - 1944, 1958, 1969
18780.023
19380.009
1939-0.001
19400.018
19410.077
1942-0.031
1943-0.028
19440.12
1958-0.01
1969-0.01Besides, more sunlight has reached the earth recently:
“The NASA study also sheds light on the puzzling observations by other scientists that the amount of sunlight reaching Earth’s surface, which had been steadily declining in recent decades, suddenly started to rebound around 1990.”
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NasaNews/2007/2007031524529.html
Sorry, for soem reason the space after the year in each column disappeared.
Sort of spoils the argument if you can’t read it:
1998 0.546
1999 0.296
2000 0.27
2001 0.409
2002 0.464
2003 0.473
2004 0.447
2005 0.482
2006 0.42And most of that “increase” has been in urban areas.
And, 2006 is still only .4C over:
1878, 1939 - 1944, 1958, 1969
1878 0.023
1938 0.009
1939 -0.001
1940 0.018
1941 0.077
1942 -0.031
1943 -0.028
1944 0.12
1958 -0.01
1969 -0.01O/T Just heard on the radio
For all Rugby league fans - Andrew Johns has retired because of his neck injury
Posted by aussiemagpie on 2007 04 10 at 01:10 AM • permalink#80 kae,
At which point, they’ll make even more ridiculous catastophic predictions, that will be taken just as seriously. Dr. Paul Erhlich being a perfect example: if there ever was an academic who should have absolutely ZERO credibility…
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 04 10 at 01:40 AM • permalinkI couldn’t help noticing the quote from fellow moonbat, Yvonne Ridley (of Islamic convert fame), on an earlier post ‘Fixation on Preaching’
“I’ve visited over 20 different countries in the last three years and Australia is the most shocking in terms of deterioration.”
20 countries in 3 years?
Wow. No eco-warrior, she.
Posted by pommygranate on 2007 04 10 at 02:34 AM • permalink#78 The logical explanation regarding increases in temperatures in urban areas is found in the CBC documentary “Doomsday Called Off”, essentially having everything to do with the landscape change to structures and asphalt.
Not sure if it has been linked to on Tim’s site before but is weill worth a view.Posted by Hank Reardon on 2007 04 10 at 07:08 AM • permalink#73 - Low bypass engines of three-four decades ago were screamers. I was in Adelaide airport in the late 50s when a 707 took off - it scared the bejeebers out of me - and I had just flown over from Port Lincoln in a DC3, which wasn’t exactly quiet in the cabin.
A few weeks ago an F-18 was doing vertical climbs over Albert Park just before the GP started - little or no bypass in a military engine. Amazing - the year before you could hear that in my suburb 15km out. I thought that if you’re in Iraq or Afghanistan on the wrong side and hear that - you’re all ready dead.
Posted by walterplinge on 2007 04 10 at 07:09 AM • permalinkDriving to Manhattan:
614 miles (google maps)
Flying:
501 miles (nwa.com)Passenger Car:
3,527 BTU/Passenger-Mile
Domestic Airliner:
3,297 BTU/Passenger-MileTotal Energy Consumption Passenger Car:
2165578 BTU
Total Energy Domestic Airliner:
1651797 BTUEnergy Savings by flying: 24%
Cost analysis—
Passanger Car: Fuel $135 + Parking $50 + Toll $30 + Time $304 (Median Personal Income/2080Hrs*20hrs travel time)=
$519Air: Ticket $180 + Gas $9 (to/from airport) Parking $24 + Cab/Bus $40 + Time $128(Median Personal Income/2080Hrs*8hrs travel time)=
$381Of course, this assumes a much lower income than for me personally, and for an individual travelling alone, I’d expect the BTU/passenger-mile to be a little higher for a passanger car (though not much, I doubt the average passengers in a car are much more than 1).
Mmmm. Let’s see how George is getting on with that “don’t fly unless you’re against it” campaign…
According to my back of the envelope sums, I’ve flown about 55,000 miles this year so far.
I’d say that most of those miles have been on planes that haven’t had a seat to spare. I hardly ever fly out of Hong Kong with an empty seat visible.
Cathay Pacific, the carrier with which I fly the most, announced record profits for 2006, despite rises in oil prices (see here).
Hong Kong International Airport saw passenger and cargo throughput grow 9.1 per cent and 5.2 per cent over 2005, to 44.45 million passengers and 3.58 million tonnes, respectively. Aircraft movements increased 6.4 per cent, to 280,490 (see here).
Keep up the good work, George. No matter what these bastards say, I think you’re one helluva fella. Actually, I don’t think that at all. Fuck you.
Somebody really needs to keep track of Mr. Monbiot’s travels from this day forward. I have little doubt that he’ll be prove to be a liar on this point, as well. It will be like those people who promised to leave the country if John Kerry lost the election but didn’t. Monbiot won’t stick to his pledge either. I’m sure, though, when confronted about why he’s just flown from Point A to Point B, he’ll have some ready-made excuse about why it was necesary. Just this one time.
#64 Adamski quoted: ‘and an opportunistic Israel isn’t going to say no to the backing of millions in the US.’
The one sane bit in the Adam brain-mass has been his long friendship and respect for many Jews he knows.
But even this is wavering, as the ‘Jewboy neocons’ arouse his lefty contempt and he sees himself out of step with most of his pro-Arab radical crowd.Now it’s ‘opportunistic’ for Israel to want just to stay in existence. How devilishly cunning of The Jew!
As usual, this debate ignores the conservative beliefs about a literal Messiah within Judaism, as well as the threat of the Hidden 12th Mahdi of the Shi-ite Iranians.
It’s blame Bush and evangelicals all the way, as usual…
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