<< UNQUALIFIED COLUMN APPOINTED TO SUPREME COURT ~ MAIN ~ COLOURS LOWERED >>
OSAMA LIES
He’s been given a few answers over the years—some from Osama bin Laden himself—but when it comes to Islamist terrorism, Robert Fisk (here interviewed by the ABC’s Tony Jones) still thinks we need to ask why:
TONY JONES: Jihadist extremism has spawned countless suicide terrorists from New York to London, from Baghdad to Bali. How do you stop them without generating a general conflict between Islam and the West?
ROBERT FISK: I mean, after the crimes against humanity of September 11th, 2001, we were discouraged from saying, “Why? Why did this happen?” We knew who did it—in this case, 19 Arabs flying aeroplanes. How did they do it? Planes, box-cutters, tall buildings. But the moment you asked why—in other words, the motive for the crime, which is something any ordinary policeman asks of any crime—you were told merely to ask the question why it was to be pro-terrorist to support the enemies of democracy, etc. But I think we do have to ask the question why, and we have to say, “What has happened in the Middle East to produce an environment from which these people can come?” We are not condoning what they do, the wickedness of bombing innocent people, but we do need to ask, “What’s wrong in the Middle East?” and that means dealing with injustices that exist there—injustices which the Australian Government, the British Government, the American Government could deal with or try to deal with if they wish. But I think we’re spending far too much time on, you know, mainframe computers, listening to telephones, legislation, than we should be in dealing with actual human problems that exist on the ground. You’ve just brought up the British. Let’s look at the British in Iraq in 1917. We invaded. We announced in a document, which I have hanging on my library wall, “We come here,” we said to the Iraqi people in 1917, “not as conquerors, but as liberators to free you from generations of tyranny.” Sound familiar? We then had an insurrection in 1920, we bombarded Fallujah, similar to the Americans. We surrounded Najaf, we demanded the surrender of Shi’ite clerics, we said there would be civil war if the British Army left and, indeed, British intelligence in 1920 said that terrorists were crossing the border from Syria. Now, we can go on repeating history endlessly, just as we are now. This is fingerprint parallel history. But at the end of the day, we’ve got to say, “Hang on a second. There are problems here. How do we deal with them?” And unless we deal with them, we are not going to be safe. By “we”, I mean the West, us.
Er, OK. It’s all about injustices dating back to 1917. But watch Fisk twitch when Jones—as he has done before, to his eternal credit—raises the matter of a more recent conflict:
TONY JONES: In one of his rambling justifications for these kind of terrorist acts, Osama bin Laden pointed the finger and said Australians were targeted in Bali because they intervened in East Timor.
ROBERT FISK: Yes. I think the East Timor thing is a lie by Osama bin Laden—I don’t think that’s what it is about.
Read the whole interview, in which Fisk is cranked up to maximum babble mode.
UPDATE. James Paterson: “The almighty Fisk thinks Osama is misrepresenting the aims of his own terrorist organisation in its bombing attacks? Where is the incentive?”
And on Saturday night, as the bombs were going off in Bali, Robert Fisk was delivering the Edward Said Memorial Lecture at Adelaide University.
That’s about as far as I got.
This fascination that Lateline has with the views of Robert Fisk is really quite peculiar. What, exactly, are his analytic achievements so far that he should be so privileged? Surely there are many other reporters who have covered these areas with a good deal more success and consequent credibility? I recall, in particular, that the Australian used to regularly run articles by one Nicholas Rothwell, who was transparently fair and often insightful. I wonder what he’s doing these days, and I wonder if he has ever been approached for comment.
Ah guinsPen, there are US troops in Afganistan…
If you are going to be a moonbat, please state your case clearly so we can shoot you down with irrefutable logic.
—Nora
PS, you’re lucky that it’s me you’re talking to and not Nick. He’s run out patience.
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 10 04 at 09:21 PM • permalinkEr, Nora, guinspen was being sarcastic. He comments here all the time; he’s not a moonbat, he’s a normal person.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 10 04 at 09:27 PM • permalinkI’m sorry, I forgot to put my sense of humour in this morning.
A thousand apologies guinspen, it’s too early in the morning to try that subtlety business with me.
Andrea, any chance of the /irony tags in this year’s budget for dense people like me?
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 10 04 at 09:35 PM • permalinkHow dare that infidel criticize OBL, accusing him of lying! Someone call CAIR. It is obvious that this racist Mr. Fisk needs to be beaten by a Muslim crowd to teach him some manners. Are you with me guinsPen?
Posted by andycanuck on 2005 10 04 at 09:37 PM • permalinkThis is very OT, but the ABC has interviewed the Bahktiari family (again.) This time they are blaming someone entirely different for their troubles: the cheers squad at Margoville?
“I don’t blame the Australian Government for all this. I would like to blame those who said they were helping us but they were not.”
That’s you, Marilyn. Surprised they weren’t more grateful.
Apart from his other problems, Fisk is, quite simply, a liar. He claims that Bush said the war on terror will “never end”. I know the speech Fisk is talking about, and it’s one of the bravest things Bush has done in the public argument about Iraq. Bush dared to say what any sane adult knows: there is never going to be a final day of victory in this kind of war. Yes, it will end, but there isn’t going to be a ‘VT’ day, with OBL signing an instrument of surrender on board an aircraft carrier, with delirious Marines kissing nurses in Times Square, lindy-hopping and jitterbugging, etc. This is not saying that it will ‘never end’. Fisk is a liar.
“By “we”, I mean the West, us.”
Or in particular, me! I did it! I Robert Fisk! That’s why I can’t stop talking about it. I did it and I’m sorry. Look, I know I made criminals out of the entire religion of Islam just so I could get my rocks off and invade.
I’m over that now and I would like all the armies to go back to where they were. I’ll put the World Trade Centre back up. Don’t worry, if I could do the other, I can do this. I will now comply with UN resolution 1442, I realise I should have done so in the first place. Its just that I was so pissed at W. Why does that man make me so mad? Oh no, could it be???
Fisk would have had his question answered if only he had watched INSIGHT on SBSTV last night.M/s Brockie had assembled a studio full of well fed,allegedly educated,middle class Indonesians with a sprinkling of Vietnamese and Malasians.We were advised that almost all of the participants were followers of Allah.The concensus reached was that Australians who supported their elected Governments foreign policy were probably only White Supremacist Racists and deserved exactly what they got.M/s Brockie seemed happy to encourage the team to make whatever vile accusations they felt like and at no time challenged even the most outrageous lies.The program apart from reinforcing the conclusion that SBS is happy to aid and abet any group of Australian-haters was that the myth of the existence of “moderate Muslims” is just that,a myth.
#1
Fisk’s inability to focus on anything except Iraq,
So is this a payola thing, a la Galloway, or just non-commercial idiocy?Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2005 10 04 at 11:49 PM • permalinkLets see, OBL stating his motivations, that are in accordance with the Koran, observed reality and actual practice on the ground v Robert Fisks ‘informed’ opinion.
Whilst I am tempted to come down on Fisks side here (in the hope that some Balinese kiddies will beat the piss out of him), I have to lean towards OBLs stated opinion being a more accurate expression of OBLs opinion.
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2005 10 04 at 11:56 PM • permalinkFisk is right when he says that the problem is injustice in the middle east. We should address this issue firstly by sonsoring a UN resolution that Sharia law is a crime against humanity, and then by taking appropriate action, including dissolution of the Islamic Death Cult as a promoter of crimes against humanity.
Robert Fisk is the consumate Idiotarian. John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Paul Krugman, even Michael Moore are mere pretenders to his crown. Small wonder that LGF named their Award for wanton public stupidity after him.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 10 05 at 12:31 AM • permalinkThe following two letters appeared in papers this morning.
From the SMH:
Rather than spouting platitudes and wasting taxpayers’ money on fridge magnets and expensive, ineffective advertising campaigns, why doesn’t the Government concentrate its efforts on improving our intelligence and counterintelligence services in order to hunt down and bring to justice the perpetrators of these heinous acts in Bali?
Two senior members of Jemaah Islamiah, Azahari Husin and Noordin Mohammed Top, are well known to the authorities, but we seem to have made no progress in seeking them out and destroying them.
Ray O’Brien Seven Hills
From the Australian:
TWO senior members of Jemaah Islamiah, Azahari Husin and Noordin Top, are well known to the authorities, but we seem to have made no progress in seeking them out and destroying them. It’s time for us as a nation to remove the kid gloves and send in the pest exterminators.
Ray O’Brien Seven Hills, NSW
Jonny,
Can we assume that the forthright Ray O’Brien submitted identical letters to both publications, but some of the words “lost their way” en route to the SMH pressroom?
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 10 05 at 01:06 AM • permalinkOsama Lied!
People Died!Spiny Norman, if you read the whole thing together he’s saying its time to stop pussy footing around and get the job done. The SMH editorialises the letter into a scathing attack on the Howard government, but the Australian only prints the second paragraph of the letter, in which the real point is made.
Jonny,
Ah! They both “trimmed” his letter “for length”, eh? Maybe Ray increased his likelihood of being published by intentionally giving both editors something to “chew on”...
/never had a LTTE published, but knows someone who’s had several.Posted by Spiny Norman on 2005 10 05 at 01:34 AM • permalinkEr, OK. It’s all about injustices dating back to 1917. But watch Fisk twitch when Jones—as he has done before, to his eternal credit—raises the matter of a more recent conflict:
He did more than twitch. If you watched the interview, he did his best to talk over Jones when, with horror, he saw this point coming. The small matter of East Timor causes major brain implosions in the likes of Fisk and Pilger (who had a meltdown during another Lateline interview).
Tony should have followed up by asking Fisk whether the Americans have managed to overcome the impenetrable defences around Baghdad airport yet - one of Fisk’s high points in journalism.
Posted by Mr Hackenbacker on 2005 10 05 at 01:37 AM • permalinkThis whole “questioning why” phenomenon—which was never discouraged, censored or in any way oppressed before or after 9/11—has just been made so much clearer to me by Mr. Fisk, so perhaps I owe him some tiny bit of gratitude.
In investigating a crime, the police will ask why it occurred, yes, but not to excuse the crime when the criminal is known, but rather to establish a motive and thus identify and convict a suspect. These bloody leftists again want to use methods for fighting crime to excuse and encourage it.
If someone from the ROP decides to blow themselves and many unfortunate innocents up, who the fuck cares why they did it? They’re dead; the best we can hope to do is prevent others from following in their footsteps.
It’s just another example of leftists following the Soviet playbook: accuse the enemy of doing exactly what they would do, given the chance. Assholes.
I know I’m preaching to the choir, er, you’re on the same page as me, but I had to vent. Thx.
Posted by dnewlander on 2005 10 05 at 01:45 AM • permalinkSpiny Norman, to get a letter published in the Sydney morning herald:
1. Choose any Howard Policy you dissaprove of - alternatively you could choose a peice of anti-semitic propaganda you picked from a Palestinian, Russian or Egyptian internet site or it could just be an anti-semitic thought you had while you were brushing your teeth this morning.
2. Label this policy as racist and authoritarian. If you have chosen the alternative, now claim the jews control “politics and the media in <insert country of choice>”.
3. Claim that this policy is a result of a zionist conspiracy. If you have chosen the alternative, claiming a zionist conspiracy at this point should also work.Julia Irwin, member for Fowler (ALP) knows why;
“terrorists do not hate us for what we are; they hate us for what we are doing in their home countries. When we can appreciate that, we will be a lot closer to solving problems in Iraq and reducing the risk of terrorist attacks against Australians. But this cowardly government wants to hide behind another lie—the lie that Islamic fundamentalism is the root of terrorism.”
Its all lies lies lies eh Julie?
question for the left.
if your politics are so great why?? not get people with more nuanced “marketing” “comminication” and “soft” skills to run your promotional events.
you know people other than mass murderers ?
Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2005 10 05 at 02:38 AM • permalinkOk Fiskie baby we’ll accept for the moment that you actually know better than Osama Bin Laden why Osama Bin Laden does things but can you help us out in a few other things?
You say it’s all about oil, and how some pompous Brits in cockatoo feather hats carved up Mesopotamia in 1917. Ok so how come Christian churches are getting bombed in Poso in Sulawesi? How come Buddhist monks are being decapitated in southern Thailand? How come Catholic farmers are being murdered in their fields in the Philippines?
Call me stupid Bobby old boy but I don’t see the connection, well actually I do but it don’t involve oil or Brits, can ya help me out here?
Posted by Harry Flashman on 2005 10 05 at 02:56 AM • permalink“And yet, one thing is certain. Americans cannot count on the majority of journalists, college and university professors and the political elite class to educate the public on the religious motivation of the Muslim jihadists.”
Read the whole article.Speaking of misfits and contrasts.
Tonight’s ABC TV news managed to mention that there was a new USA campaign against insurgents, then follow it immediately with a cut to a statement by someone in Arab headgear that the USA forces were indiscriminately striking civilian areas.
Now, apart from the well known fact that the insurgents use civilian areas to hide in and thereby co-opt human shields, this report (does not deserve the word report) completely ignores the recent history of many attacks carried out against insurgent positions in the border area near Syria. They have been numerous over the last few months, and quite successful, as outlined in a presentation by Bill Roggio.
It was quite a contrast then, to see on the 7.30 Report that, despite her best efforts, Maxine could not extract the desired gloom and doom from her Newcastle reporter. Every time Maxine said something like “And they must be devastated” the reporter (bless her and Newcastle’s resilient people) gave a matter-of-fact recount of the actions and reactions of some of the victims of the latest Bali attacks.
I hope someone has it on tape (for checking), and that the transcript is full and accurate. It will be a good read. I also hope that the reporter (good word this time) keeps her job. She is doing it very well.Well Really calling Sheik Osama a “liar”, it is rather ‘insensitive’ as that ARSEHOLE Andrew Jaspan might say!
WOW! What a night for whacky TV Tuesday night was!
There was Insight on SBS at 7:30 where Jenny Brockie gathered up a whole bunch of virtuous brown people to make insulting generalisations about wicked white people…it’s okay when they do it! Jenny just supplied the fuel for the fire.
Then we had ‘Africa: America’s New Oil Target’ on at 8:30 on SBS. A German schlockumentary about George w’s, Dick Cheney’s and Halliburton’s evil designs on African oil resources…nobody else is interested in Africa’s oil apparently.
Then on the ABC at 9:30, there was Evan Williams’ sympathetic treatment of a gang of Cambodian thugs, recently deported by the United States, thugs who use words like “Nigger” (remembering of course, that it’s alright when they do it!) who were kicked out of the U.S. just because they were repeatedly convicted of serious crime and served several stints behind bars until those awful Americans had enough of them.
Then we had the marvelous Mr. Fisk and his charming cherry-pick of history. Like I said what a night!“Sure, we shouldn’t really negotiate with killers, Price said on Monday, but “things have progressed so far beyond that”.
two old ladies i knew used this type of reasoning. every saturday they went to the RSL for dinner.
“Why do you dine there” i asked,“the veggies are boiled white, the meat overcooked and the sweets made with sickly artificial cream”
” We know the food is not good, but they give you extremely large portions don’t they?”
So i guess if you kill enough innocent people you reach the state where the left will endorse you and negotiate.THe first time the Brits invaded Iraq was in the spring of 1991. Mr Fisk’s command of history has its slippery bits: in the fall of 1914, the Brits invaded the Ottoman Empire from the south, via Basra Province. After the debacle at the Siege of Kut, they continued the advance, taking Baghdad in March 1917. For more:
Mesopotamian CampaignCheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2005 10 07 at 12:14 AM • permalink
Page 1 of 1 pages
Members:
Login | Register
| Member List
HA! I just did a blog on the exact same thing here, although I went to a bit more detail.
The interview was amazing for Fisk’s inability to focus on anything except Iraq, as if it is the source of all the Islamic world’s problems.