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OPEN ASHES THREAD
Record your feelings here. Mine are unpublishable. Congratulations, however, to England—a fierce team, magnificently led, and deserving of cricket’s ultimate prize. Well done.
The 5th test was a farce but then Australia played horribly throughout the entire series, Warne carried the team through most of it but it’s a team game for christ sake.
At least that bent finger bastard (I know he has arthritis, but I’ve seen it straighten) umpire can go back to New Zealand, crawl into a hole and never come out. It’s gotten to the point I think we should just let computers take over, apparntly no humans are left that are capable of being cricket umpires.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 09 12 at 01:29 PM • permalinkTim
Thanks very much. Your congratulations are very warmly received. My feelings are unpublishable too and they’ll be unintelligable after the celebrations are done(come on, it’s been 16 years!) It was a hard fought series, it’s been a great one and your boys have been very magnanimous. See you in 2006.
Posted by Pete_London on 2005 09 12 at 01:46 PM • permalinkEngland played some very good cricket indeed. However Australia were the authors of their own downfall by not showing them enough respect. I think if we had played with just a little more thought, we could have still won. In that respect, I think this was a self-inflicted wound so I am actually rather angry with the likes of Buchanan and Ponting for their poor leadership.
Pffftt….Stupid Glenn McGrath and his “We’ll be up 5-0”. Not so cocky now, are you, mate?
I blame Bush, by the way.
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 09 12 at 04:57 PM • permalinkEngland were lucky but good play and confidence creates good luck. Flintoff is brilliant, as is S Jones. They are not a champion side…yet. Their top order is still very flakey. That said, Australia lost their last 5 wickets for 11 runs on the fourth day and England lost their last 5 wickets for something like 210. No team can win if their tail flops as such and then subsequently can’t clean up the opposition tail.
Ponting should go. His decision to try and get Pepe Le Pew out by having Lee bowl short and to the leg side, whilst having the worst fielder in the team, Tait, defending the deep backward square boundary was one of the worst pieces of captaincy I’ve ever seen. Pepe got two outside edges (which were dropped) FFS! Why the hell wouldn;t they continue bowling a good line at him is beyond me.
Australia have not had a good win against a good side with Punter at the helm. The greatest success in recent years was the victory in India where Gilly led the way.
Congratulations to England who utterly deserve their victory. We can console ourselves with the thought that everything that could go wrong for Australia did, and we still came close.
SK Warne is a legend. He alone performed to his reputation and can hold his head up. Gillespie, perhaps injured, carries a large share of the blame for a limp attack. Lee’s waywardness and lack of penetration wasn’t much better. McGrath, when around, was excellent as usual.
Then there is the batting, a product of slumming it with third tier nations for two years. The gap in the work calendar where Zimbabwe was didn’t help either. More time against county sides before the next English series please.
I can’t say we’ll fare any better when the contest returns to Australian soil next year. England has a brace of top-line fast bowlers all of whom will do well here. By then McGrath could well have retired with no obvious successor on the horizon.
In AFL parlance, we’re officially in a rebuilding phase.
Is cricket the game played with mallets, wooden balls, and wickets? The goal of which is to hit the balls through the wickets and be the first player to hit the first stick but not the second.
Well whadya know. I was a decent player in my youth, especially with hitting other players’ balls and sending them flying off into neighbors’ yards. The wooden balls that is.
Little did I know that nations would build a whole sport on it.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 09 12 at 05:25 PM • permalinkYeah, I don’t think we will get far with ‘we wuz robbed’ - probably a fair result. Good for the game, and the interest in both countries next time around will be huge.
I couldn’t believe the lack of preparation - only a handful of warm up matches before and during the series (apart from pointless 2-day games) to get them in the groove. Playing in England is VERY different to playing in Australia - you need to adjust your shots more, so the players really needed to get in a rhythm which they lacked throughout, with the exception of Warne.
Also, an astonishing lack of flexibility - they did nothing to build up the form of any replacement players so they were largely stuck with out-of-form players throughout. Hodge and Macgill were just passengers with no chance to play for a spot.
Also, too arrogant to look at in-form players playing in the counties - eg Symonds, Hussey, Watson, Bichel.
Posted by Flying Giraffe on 2005 09 12 at 05:25 PM • permalinkWell done England for a magnificent series. England were the better team overall. I don’t think Australia passed 400 in any innings . You can’t expect to win a series without that.
That said its not all bad for Oz. We were never thrashed in any game and a bit of luck here or there could have reversed the end scorecard. But that said we were mostly playing catch-up. We never had the initiative.
I think it will be a bit diffferent in Oz when they come out. The ball won’t swing as much which will blunt England’s attack. Of course by then we will probably be without Warne and McGrath with no comparable replacements. A fair bit of rebuilding needed over the next few years.
I think Warney would make a great captain. Inspiring leader, great cricketing brain, never quits.
Over here, he has turned Hampshire from a bunch of no-hoper underachievers to a feared team that has already won something this year and is in line to win the championship. Often inspiring them on to win from bad starts.
Unfortunately, his off-field record will count against him (not that I care but the stiffs in Melbourne will never allow his type) as well as his age.
Anyone for Justin Langer as skipper? Again, will probably need to think of someone under 30. Trouble is, the current team is all about the same age.
My gut feel is that the next Australian captain isn’t even in the team yet, not that I know who.
Posted by Flying Giraffe on 2005 09 12 at 06:25 PM • permalinkI think Michael Clarke is being groomed to be captain sometime in the future, but it might be a little too early right now. At least he’s probably learned what not to do on this tour. Perhaps Gilchrist in the short term? And a bowling coach would be useful, the number of no-balls was criminal. Catching practice wouldn’t be a waste of time, either.
In defence of Bowden’s decision in the 2nd match, it was not entirely conclusive even on slow motion replay, although I tend to believe he probably got it wrong. He’s not particularly well-liked here in NZ either, I don’t think he realises the game’s not about him.
Posted by brucey bonus on 2005 09 12 at 07:49 PM • permalinkThey have earned it. We have been down in tests in the past, however our players’ grit and talent has always resulted in avoiding… a loss. It is a sport, so weather and umpire decisions shall always be a factor.
The scary thing is that the top gun English players are young, and ours are old. Warnie was a key player. In all these years we posessed a truely masterful team, and this test we had our hopes on two bowlers.
Hopefully our young talent can learn to catch and all that. We don’t want the poms to feel it is now their turn at winning.
Have to laugh. The News.com.au web site headline reads Ashes Lost To England. It ishere.
Strictly speaking The Ashes are lost to Australia and won by the English.
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 09 12 at 08:36 PM • permalinkMany lessons to be learnt from this series.
But first it needs to be acknowledged that the better team won the series. They got stronger as it went on, they blossomed as our guys wilted.
As already said, good teams make their own luck and when a team is going well poor decisions are overcome.
Now, the lessons:
1. If you win the toss - bat FFS!.
2. A hungry fighter is a good fighter.
3. Continuing success can breed complacency. (Which is pretty much the same as point 2.)
4. Father Time catches up with all of us.
I think we will see massive changes to our team in the next year or two - not just because of this series but because our blokes are all so old, and starting to show it. Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne, Kasprowicz, Gillespie are all finished or close to. Thats a lot of replacements to find.
Will Clarke measure up when he is not playing in a champion team?
I also don’t find Lee particularly convincing. Watching our other bowlers (McGill excluded) makes you realise how good McGrath and Warne have been.
Buchanan should go.
As well, I don’t think Ponting is a good captain - but he’ll stay for now.
So we may be rebuilding but we are not Pommies - it won’t be 16 years between drinks.Big farty bollocks. And I don’t have an excuse to sit up drinking until 4am during the week any more either. I blame global warming- it allows those filthy Poms to emerge blinking from their winter holes and get a bit fit and practice before a tour starts. Expect a similar outcome from the upcoming Wallaby tour as well, seeing as most of the squad should be playing for this outfit. Bloody Nora, it’s becoming embarassing to be an Australian- if Oddball had’ve won the last election as well, it’d be emigration time.
Yes it is Habib. And don’t call me bloody ;-)
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 09 12 at 09:08 PM • permalinkIf our fielding, batting or bowling had been up to the task, the Ashes would not be staying in England (yes, yes I know the urn stays there, blah, blah, blah).
I am comforted that the Ashes were lost by a small margin and that only a couple of things needed to go right for us to have won another Test or two, as opposed to the Windies tour of OZ in 84-85 where we had no chance at all.
I agree with the comments above - Billy Bowden better sleep with one eye open, and hope the flight back to Un Zud doesn’t have a stop-over in Perth or Sydney.
Would anyone rate any of the umpires more than 5 out of 10? I can’t think of any.
#9,murph.Spot on! Ponting is a great batsman but only a fair-weather Captain.As soon as he came up against a better than average side his captaincy skills were found to be lacking.If he is to be replaced I just hope they don’t fall for Gilchrist.Maybe give Warne a couple of years in the job and let him teach Australia how to win again.
Strong tags, weak tags.
Fielding, batting, and the Ashes go to England.
And Star Trek.
More and more I feel like I know jack shit on this blog. I sure hope I can continue faking it.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 09 12 at 10:30 PM • permalinkWhat might have been if the Ausies had taken any of the 3 catches they dropped off Peitersen in the 5th test? What might have happened if Katich hadn’t been given out LBW (when he clearly wasn’t) in the 4th test? Australia dropped too many catches, bowled too many no-balls (how many wickets were ‘taken’ off no-balls), and batted too poorly to win.
And yet we were competitive in virtually every game. It could easily have ended up 3-1 to us. Any time we had England under pressure (last day at Lords, batting on teh last day of the 2nd test, last day in the 4th test, early on the last day of the 5th test)they showed they were vulnerable.
Massive changes aren’t needed right away, but we have to start introducing guys like Hussey & Hodge, plus a couple of younger bowlers (i’m not sure Tait is the answer)so that there is a natural progression over the next couple of years.
Congratulations to England on playing well,they deserved to win. But they’d better turn up to play again in 18 months or they can kiss the Ashes good-bye again.
Well yeah, sure. Because they’re Ashes, right? And Ashes don’t leave.
When I said they’re going back to England, I mean figuratively speaking. I really think that goes without saying.
(seems fairly sure his complete lack of understanding of just what the hell Ashes are went completely unnoticed)
Posted by wronwright on 2005 09 12 at 11:01 PM • permalinkAgain.
Blah, blah, blah, Ginger, blah, blah, blah.
Now, fishing with dynamite - there’s a real man’s sport.
Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2005 09 12 at 11:06 PM • permalinkThe Man Who Lost The Cricketing Ashes
(to the tune of ‘the man who shot liberty valence’)when ricky ponting goes to bat the umps run and hide…...they hide.
when ricky ponting plays his shots the bowlers step aside.cause the lash of his tongue is the only law that ricky understood.
when it came to shooting off his mouth…..he was mighty good.from out of the west a welshman came cricket ball in his hands…...a man.
the kind of a man that england needs to tame this convict band.cause the lash of his tongue is the only law that ricky understood.
when it came to shooting off his mouth…..he was mighty good.many a bat would face his wrath and many a bat would fall.
the man who lost the cricketing ashes, he lost the cricketing ashes…...he was a loser after all.
wronwright — Wait until we ask you about the charm, spin and strangeness of the tags…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 09 12 at 11:33 PM • permalinkI think that Bush could have done more to help Australia…
Posted by Richard_of_Oz on 2005 09 12 at 11:44 PM • permalinkWhen Glen McGrath is fourth in the batting averages, you’ve got a problem.
Australia in England, 2005 Test Series Averages
But seriously, not one Australian batsman averaging over 45 is an issue.
Also a problem is the apparent conflict of interest for the selectors - they’ve played with most of the current team and were too loyal to players who were way out of form.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 09 13 at 12:00 AM • permalinkCongratulations to the pommy ba… sorry, English friends. They were bloody luck…I mean they played much the b e t t e r c r i c k e t - sorry, fingers seized up there for a second.
And we’ll really enjoy watching the celebrations, which will of course be restrained and sportsmanlike, just like they were after they won the Sniff and Run World Cup by such a large margin. Clive the Creep - sorry - Sir Clive Woodward set the tone then for graceful winning.
Have to finish now, feeling nauseous.Wron, the Ashes are the highest level of cricket that can be played. You can have your one-day events, your 20/20 thingies (whatever they are), but the Ashes are the Grail of real cricketers in England and Australia.
Adjacent the mansion is the oval upon which, it could be argued, the first Ashes cricket match occurred. The history of the Ashes records that when Australia won against England at the Oval in 1882 The London Times announced the death of English cricket and declared that ‘The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Australia’. When an English team was touring Australia shortly after this announcement one of the tour matches was held on the Rupertswood Oval. When Australia won Lady Janet Clarke had one of her servants burn a bail - or some bails - and presented the ashes to the English captain, Ivo Bligh, in a velvet bag. In the 1920s, Bligh’s widow presented them to the MCC who placed them in an urn where they are still kept at Lords as The Ashes.
At the Goona Warra winery and as you enter Sunbury, there are signs declaring it the home of the Ashes.
It’s long been a dream of mine to go to the Test match at the MCG on Boxing Day. *sigh*
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 09 13 at 12:53 AM • permalinkOh, and I forgot to add:
Die, Infidel dogs!
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2005 09 13 at 12:55 AM • permalinkMust admit I’m rather partial to expanding bait; also quite efficient are square hooks, and much better for sashimi, as the first method tends to make the flesh mushy, and taste a bit of cordite. Ever tried going after dangerous chinook with a 30.06?
Next time wronwright give em back their blasted Lakes BEFORE the series ends willya.. you KNOW it gets their dander up!
Congrats Englanders, you played spiffingly and (sniff) deserved to win the (sob) Ashes.
I agree with fulminating Fran kelly who intimated this morning that Warnie and Pieterson were such good friends that it influenced Warnie’s catching ability.
You know how I always agree with her about every little bitty thing.On second thoughts though, what poppycock.What a great series! I wonder who fixed it, the SBS must have friends in very high and influential places, even to the gods of the weather.
But seriously, congratulations to the Poms, especially the bowlers who also showed a lot of grit in their capacity as lower order batsmen. They had a bit of luck in a couple of tests and maybe a bit the other way in another. Good to see they can still produce some players with the capacity to tough it out in a tight spot.#2 Aging Gamer
It’s gotten to the point I think we should just let computers take over
You haven’t played System Shock lately have you…
[/obscure gaming reference]BTW, while I agree with many of the sentiments regarding the umpiring, and England did play very well throughout, I don’t think they “dominated” as much as people think.
In each test, except the 5th, England’s second innings score was crap, while our first innings was crap and our second better. It seemed that they dominated because our first innings was so poor each time, but in the back end of each game we nearly got them because they were struggling to crack 200 in their second dig and we were clocking up 350+ in ours.Are we sure that Bush isn’t to blame?
Check out this spooky comparison…
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 09 13 at 06:00 AM • permalinkNow that Oz has lost the Ashes can the load of whingeing Aussies that fill London now bugger off home?
Posted by Andrew Ian Dodge on 2005 09 13 at 06:41 AM • permalinkThis is a phenomenon I noticed after the Rugby World Cup - winning the event seemed to mean a hell of a lot more to England than losing did to us.
Us: “We lost - bugger - OK what’s on telly tonight?”
Them: triumphal parades, hundreds of thousands of adoring citizens crowding the city to cheer the conquering heroes home.
Might this not have something to do with the relative frequency of sporting triumphs in the two countries?Giving Flintoff the Man of the Series was outrageous. Surely it should have been given to someone who actually changed the face of series and gave the England the win in the face of superior Australian players - someone like Messrs Bowden, Bucknor or Koetzen.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2005 09 13 at 07:31 AM • permalinkRe: #58 Harold. Just heard Geoff Lawson speaking on BBC Radio 5 here in UK talking about him being on a victory parade through Sydney with 400,000 people by the side of the road. That was after regaining the Ashes - don’t know when it was (1980s?). What do you expect when we haven’t won in 18 years? Of course it’s going to be a big celebration!!
I propose a hit squad be immediately despatched to UnZud and find Billy (LOOK AT ME!) Bowden’s place, kick his dog, run over his cat, knock down his chook shed, and spray filthy graffiti on the road outside his house.
The squad then moves to Pakistan and does the same thing to Aleem Dar’s place, (allowing for cultural differences, of course, they might have to kick his goat instead of a dog)Then off to England, where they stuff a week old footy sock in the gaping gob of Geoff Boycott, then kidnap Tony Greig and lock him up in Baxter as an illegal Serf Efrican reffugee until he is an old, old man.
Finally, hit squad returns to Melbourne where they line up the alleged “selectors” in the ACB/ Cricket Australia, and kick each of them firmly in the cods.
Only then will honour be satisfied.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2005 09 13 at 08:33 AM • permalinkI suppose I should add; Well played
Pommy bastardsEngland.We’ll have Freddy if you don’t want him, and Pieterson might get a spot in the seconds.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2005 09 13 at 08:39 AM • permalinkExquisitely put,Pedro but don’t hold back dear fellow,tell it like it is.
...and Harold,you’ve been sprung…and remember all the hoo haa over a certain BOAT RACE? I shiver as I feel American hackles rise here,but, let’s face it.We still cringe when we remember a prime minister in a hideously striped yachting jacket,swigging champagne and er forgot..Eheu, alas! The sole Aussie in the office isn’t much of a cricket fan, thereby sadly diminishing my taunting possibilities. I had to make do with sledging a couple of Kiwis last night, and it just wasn’t the same.
Posted by David Gillies on 2005 09 13 at 10:57 AM • permalink#54, RhikoR, I fully support naming our new cricketing overlord “Shodan”. Even when she does go completely insane and starts killing people, she’ll still be doing a better job then the current umpires.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 09 13 at 01:39 PM • permalinkAndrewf re #61.
Lawson is full of shit - 400,000 crowds to any parade in Sydney/Melbourne for a returning cricket team? No way. I don’t even remember them having a parade. I guess it helps to have one large capital to focus your celebrations on/in. Imagine having a huge parade in Canberra? 400,000 joyous public servants showering our returning heroes with paper clips.
I’ve got no problem with them enjoying the win, I was just making the point that it meant a lot more to them than losing seemed to mean to us.
I think a lot of it boils down to how hungry you are for the win.
I agree we go over the top sometimes - the America’s Cup (which was 23 years ago) and the way our commentators rabbit on at the Olympics.
Also I agree Flintoff was clearly the outstanding player of the series. Warnie was superb with bugger-all support.Look- its just like when you used to play cricket in the back yard with your little brother. Every now and a gain you had to let him win otherwise he’d start sulking and refuse to play anymore. / smug
Well done England! I’m now looking forward to the next Ashes in a way I haven’t done in ages.
Posted by Just passing by on 2005 09 13 at 09:47 PM • permalinkDavid Gillies, please dont be nasty to the Kiwis - I havent met one who wasnt cheering England on (and that goes for Sith Ifricans too). Incidently, what a hilariously funny whine in todays Australian from the dreaded Ramsey about England fans sledging the Aussies. Interesting - you cant play rugby, cant play cricket, but you Skippies are certainly world champion whingers!
Hmmm. It’s not as if they thrashed us. In the end, you could say they won the Ashes by 2 runs - the margin of their narrowest win.
Without those 2 runs, Australia wins the series by 2 tests to 1, and we’re all smiling. And let’s not forget - Kasper was NOT OUT…
So - let’s keep it in perspective. A deserved win for England, but hey, you’re SUPPOSED to win at home. Just because they haven’t for 2 decades, it doesn;t mean this win is particularly remarkable.
And - Australia played badly (by their lofty standards) and still only lost by 2 runs. Not time to slash the wrists just yet.
All that said - to steal from Big Brother - it’s time to go…Matty, Damien, Jason. And I’m unconvinced by Clarke, Katich or, dare I say it, Brett Lee.
As for Billy Bowden, he is after all a kiwi. You have to make allowances.
We shouldn’t kid ourselves by blaming the umpires or the light. Kasper was plumb LBW ages before Australia got close at Edgbaston. Over the series I thought the bad decisions about evened out.
We would have lost at Old Trafford if a day hadn’t been lost to rain. Given England’s final score at the Oval, Australia would have been fairly long odds to get 342 even if they’d had a full day to get them. If no weather interfered, probably 4-1 to England.
I don’t think there’s really any doubt they played better cricket, the way Australia played was simply awful, we’d somehow forgotten to catch a ball… or bowl one, or hit one.
Horrific umpiring is horrofic umpiring however, for me it wasn’t who it gave the advantage to or whatever, the simple fact it existed is enough, in the ASHES no less.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 09 14 at 03:57 AM • permalinkBut did the australian batsmen underperform, or were they overrated and once thy faced a complete attack they couldn’t handle it? I watched Pakistan vs. Australia last time they went out to Oz and Shoaib Aktar would often get a few early wickets, you’d be 150-4 or something like that, and then he’d tire (I might be wrong - my memory’s not perfect). Then without support the aussies creamed the lesser bowlers. Maybe, just maybe, Gilchrist’s not as good as we’ve been led to believe as he never usually has to face top class bowlers when they’re fresh? And the England players on the whole did seem more hungry. Why? Better captain? Better coaching and support? Better team spirit - do the other aussie players actually like Matt Hayden coz no-one else in world cricket does!
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Stinking Pome’s. They got lucky this time.