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Hamas culture minister Attallah Abu al-Sibbah vows to crush the bellydancing menace:
“Bellydancing is naked women. This is not Islamic. The Egyptians come here and do it. And there are a lot of Russian bellydancers in Egypt and they come here too,” said Mr Sibbah, 58, an Islamic scholar who joined the cabinet of the Hamas government installed last week.
How come we’ve not heard of this before?
“People do it indoors, in secret. There’s lots of it,” he said.
And this is a problem ... why?
“If the phenomenon of bellydancing spreads our people might react against it by killing people.”
Left-wing nutcase conspiracy theorists like to claim that Israel “created” Hamas. If this is a “false flag” operation to make the Palestinian Arabs looks like bloodthirsty idiots, they could not have done a better job.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 04 06 at 01:25 PM • permalinkIf the phenomenon of wiffle-ball spreads our people might react against it by killing people.
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 04 06 at 01:31 PM • permalink“If the phenomenon of bellydancing spreads our people might react against it by killing people.”
The local Bible thumpers occasionally throw a fit over the strip club a few miles from where I live. They’ve filed court cases, ran candidates for office, pressured elected officials…
But never killed anyone over it, or even threatened to do so.
Yet I suspect there are quite a few people who would call them ignorant fundamentalists intent on establishing a theocracy, while excusing the Paleos as “victims”.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 04 06 at 01:32 PM • permalinkBack in the day when I still had the figure for it, I did a little belly dancing (terrific exercise, lots of fun and, oh ladies, what marvelous things it does to the waistline). In fact, I think I still have the whole outfit buried somewhere. Perhaps I should dig it out and wear it to a NASCAR event.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 04 06 at 02:12 PM • permalinkYou can see their point. Bellydancing in the home. think of the children…
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2006 04 06 at 04:05 PM • permalink“If the bonding of carbon atoms and/or the Krebs Cycle spreads, our people might react against it by killing people!”
Presumably a belly-dancer with a tattoo of the Prophet on her stomach is out of the question?
Posted by Bill Spencer on 2006 04 06 at 04:09 PM • permalinkJorgXMcKie:
Depends, Bill, where’s his beard?
UOL! (Ululate Out Loud)
Posted by Bill Spencer on 2006 04 06 at 04:20 PM • permalinkNow that there’s an Indonesian edition of Playboy, should we be expecting some killing closer to home?
There’s moral corruption. The blue films Israel sends us are quite corrupting. We have to resist them.”
Just had to be the Joooos. Apparently while not busy making blue movies Jews, well at least American ones, are converting to Christianity (particularly going after the Anglican church it seems) in order to control Bush, America and of course the media. Or so says Abu Tir, no 2 Hamas ticket.If they are interested in cleaning up the corrupt mess left by Arafat it is hard to see how they will have the time with all these conspiracies to sort out.
“We’re not the Taliban. We love Jesus. We love Moses,” he said, before summoning a Christian worker at the ministry to demonstrate his good intentions”
Yeh, as long as there isn’t any Jew in them. Woops they were Jews. He wouldn’t be lying?
I think they all want to become killing machines like Terminator Arnold Schwarzenegger. Whereas Arnold graduated to become a T-850, the Palestinians started as a T-0.01 model and have regressed to a T-0.0 model. Way too much was left out except the killing bit. They certainly lack the subtlety of the Terminator machines.
Well, I don’t have a Fatwa belly dancing tummy, that’s for sure!
What the scholar fails to appreciate it is middle eastern culture and a fantastic form of expression without repression.
Belly dancing should be embraced, it’s sad how the evil religion denounces this cultural practice, it must be that the western women are dancing this fantastic dance.
In fact, sun exposure is good for you, unlike being covered up all the time as potentially women who cover up all the time may have rickets.
So the scholars really should get an education in medicine and then tell the truth because they might get sued or they could sue the religion like they try to do to the west all the time. lol
Yet further evidence that Palestinians are the stupidest people on earth.
Posted by perfectsense on 2006 04 06 at 07:23 PM • permalinkI wonder if the chicken dance would be acceptable? Time to ask an imam.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 04 06 at 08:11 PM • permalinkBack in the day when I still had the figure for it, I did a little belly dancing (terrific exercise, lots of fun and, oh ladies, what marvelous things it does to the waistline). In fact, I think I still have the whole outfit buried somewhere. Perhaps I should dig it out and wear it to a NASCAR event.
Sounds a great idea Kyda but if your figure is any good there may be killings. Deaths in the crush as all those blokes try and get a better look.
If the phenomenon of the sun rising in the morning persists, their people might respond to it by killing people…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 04 06 at 08:34 PM • permalinkKyda—Heck, by the chicken-fried-steak and dumplings in gravy crowd’s standards, you might STILL have the figure.
And I like chicken-fried-steak.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 04 06 at 08:36 PM • permalink# 25 “Belly dancing should be embraced.”
I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, the last time I embraced belly dancing they threw me out of the restaraunt.
Morroccan Roll!
Sax & Violins!Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 06 at 08:40 PM • permalinkKilling leads to dancing, and dancing leads to killing… We need to end the cycle of dancing and killing.
Posted by Stone Cold on 2006 04 06 at 08:49 PM • permalinkWhile there is no doubt in my mind that Hamas has shown consistently that they are killers and evil. I also have to say that, from this distance, they appear to be trying to get their heads around actually governing Palestine. This is something that will be extremely difficult for them due to the corruption and anarchy that prevailed for so long.
Like all “revolutionaries” they are finding out that peace and security and the rule of law are not optional if you want economic and social progress. They are also finding out that if you kill those who disagree with you, many of the people you need will go. The jury is out on whether they will succeed or even if they want to but a good start is to say “we are not Taliban”.
“People do it indoors, in secret. There’s lots of it,” he said.
How about sex, O mighty and wise leader of Hamas? People do it indoors, in secret, and there’s lots of it. Where will you get your next generation of ‘Splodie Palies?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 04 06 at 08:58 PM • permalinkOne would hope that in such a situation the Israelis would exercise restraint by not bursting into spontaneous renditions of Hava Nagila.
Posted by Stone Cold on 2006 04 06 at 09:11 PM • permalinkThere could be a Nobel Peace Prize in it for Hamas if they can learn to respond to dancing ala those dodgy rap videos of the 80s where gangs take turns to show off their moves.
Only question is, what dance can Hamas respond with?
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 04 06 at 09:49 PM • permalinkIm a little more concrned about the men dancing together over there. It tends to scream “repressed sexuality” with no place to go.
Maybe if they watched “boxing Helena” (crap, dont watch it will kill your brain)about the limbless lady they could solve all their problems at once.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 04 06 at 10:04 PM • permalinkHey! I found a sculptural representation of the Proph (puce be upon him)...mind you, a little imagination is required.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 06 at 10:44 PM • permalinkDance of Death - Splodeydope does “The Bus Stop”.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 04 06 at 11:46 PM • permalinkYou now, it’s really easy to make fun of people who will kill bellydancers, but I don’t think you’re all being entirely fair. Within the Palo culture, at least the Hamas part of it, death for belly dancing clearly is an appropriate reaction, and who are we to judge? Why, my wife and I like to watch television and mock the people on those home decorating shows for their incredibly bad taste. Is that so different?
Anyway, the thing is, you have to realize that what seems absurdly obvious within our own linear western logical construct—bellydancing is less bad than killing people—does not necessarily have the same moral resonance among all peoples.
Here’s a story, a bird-related story as it would happen, that may illustrate the point.
Me and a photog were in Israel for the Millenium. There was nothing doing on New Year’s Eve in Jerusalem, which closes early and wasn’t observing the big Christian whoopdick. So after watching some nuns at Gethsemane sing sweetly at the setting sun, we bagged out of Jerusalem and headed down to Bethlehem. The Palos had a big show planned, and thousands of them were packed into Manger Square. We got up on the roof of the PA municipal building, where all the foreign press and Palestinian big shots were for the best view of the big stage, rock-like music acts, 2-story high video screen, etc. The photog looked over the side at the 20,000 Arabs packed in down below, and said “That’s what you call a real cluster fuck!” The AP photog next to him said, “Yeah, only around here we call it a goat fuck.”
Around midnight, the Palos planned to release 2000 doves as a symbol of peace. They also planned a massive fireworks display. But there were a couple of problems.
Doves sleep at night. So PA cops in blue camouflage were shining big lights on the dove crates, shaking them. Startled doves were bobbing their heads and looking anxiously around, but showed no interest in exiting the crates. So the cops reached in and started grabbing handfuls of dove, which they flung out over the square. This worked. Soon there were hundreds of doves circling above the square.
And that’s when the fireworks started. We had a great view. Best fireworks I’ve ever seen. Not the most elaborate, but they were pretty much at eye level directly in front of our faces where we were on the roof, and with all these panicked doves cutting and dodging the starbursts, it was like the Battle of Britain out there. I looked over the side of the building, and saw some Arabs down below tracking individual doves with bottle rockets.
By this time the doves had assessed the situation, decided they wanted to get back into their crates, and started heading for us. That got ugly quick. It was like that Hitchcock movie, “The Birds.” We were all dodging pigeons. I’m told it made for good footage on CNN and the networks, because their setups were right next to the dove crates, and the on-camera talent was getting bird-pelted and there were feathers everywhere. Then it was over, and we needed to get out of there to file, and the photog and I nearly got crushed because with the fireworks over, all 20,000 of those Palestinians in the Square decided to exit throug the same three small alleys at exactly the same time. I lost sight of my photog pal, an Armenian who blended in with the crowd.
“This is very bad,” I said to Andre, a Russian photog who was with us. “My feet are not on the ground right now.”
“It is important not to panic,” said Andre, who was nearly beaten to death as a Russian conscript and knows what he’s talking about. But within minutes, all three of us were miraculously spat out by the crowd into the same empty spot in one of the alleys, and were able to bolt clear.
So how does this relate to killing bellydancers? Well, it really doesn’t. I just like telling that story. And I guess what we know from history is that if you think releasing doves into a fireworks display will work as a symbol of peace, then it probably isn’t much of a leap to killing bellydancers as an expression of morality.Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 07 at 12:14 AM • permalinkHang on, in my racist Eurocentric NASCAR way I thought belly dancing originated in Arab countries. I mean, whenever James Bond encounters one, its always in the “Casbah” or something. So now, the one decent contribution to the world from their culture is now our fault and yet another thing that incites them to kill?
Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 04 07 at 12:17 AM • permalinkRobert Heinlein wrote in Glory Road “Some people disparage the female form divne. Sex is too good for them. They should have been born oysters.”
Every time some Muslim twit says something and you think “None of them could say something stupider than that,” another one comes along and proves you wrong about that.
They say they are not the Taliban. Oh really? How can you tell? So far the main difference seems to be that Hamas speaks Arabic and the Taliban spoke Pushtun. Hamas hasn’t gotten around to destroying any Christian sanctuaries yet as the Taliban did the Bamiyan Statues. Give them time.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 04 07 at 12:29 AM • permalinkI was taken to see a famous belly dancer by some Turkish friends. She was about 40 years old, hair dyed red, and she knelt in the middle of the room and moved her belly in fascinating and amazing ways. The audience was totally rapt. Apparently the very good BDs are usually in their 40s or older, it takes a long time to perfect the art.
Wouldnt have missed it.
It comes from the harem, what could be more Islamic than harems?
It has occurred to me that we suffer as a result of the RoP because, basically, they are just plain stupid. Only one of lesser intelligence could utter crap like this.
The sooner we nuke them all the better.
Posted by Karl Fidel Adams-Kingston on 2006 04 07 at 01:16 AM • permalink#54 Strangely, I enjoyed reading that story.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 04 07 at 01:25 AM • permalinkThose doves and fireworks sum up the Middle East situation better than anything I have ever read.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 04 07 at 01:33 AM • permalinkThis is what it sounds like,
When doves explode…(ark! ark! ark!,
ark! ark! ark!)Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 04 07 at 02:31 AM • permalinkBelly dancing makes you want to kill?
Instead of living off European and American aid, what until Palestinians start paying taxes to involuntarily support idiots like Hamas. Paying taxes will make you want to kill someone.
Posted by perfectsense on 2006 04 07 at 02:53 AM • permalinkI really like good belly dancing. I learned as a young man that a good belly dancer was FAR more erotic than your run-of-the-mill stripper, without the need for nudity. Isn’t that what art is all about? Evoking emotion without vulgarity? I return to my earlier “bigoted” statement: All muslims are terrorists. And yes LLL, it is a “black and white, no shades of grey” issue, as simple as that. Thats the world I live in. You live in it too, you just haven’t figured it out yet.
Australia
Act I
You soon may be the last best hope for sanity. The left, with their media minions in the U.S. are pushing the tipping point ever so close to; One. Hounding GWB from office in disgrace…OR Two. A hostile reaction from the right to the point of America’s second and by far the more devastating of the two, Civil War.
Distortions, omissions, the commissions of conjuring of news and headlines, the constant barrage to the dulled masses are in fact working.
Bush, GOP Approval Ratings Hit New Lows
“These numbers are scary. We’ve lost every advantage we’ve ever had,” GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio said. “The good news is Democrats don’t have much of a plan. The bad news is they may not need one.”
There is more at stake than the careers of GOP lawmakers. A Democratic-led Congress could bury the last vestiges of Bush’s legislative agenda and subject the administration to high-profile investigations of the Iraq war, the CIA leak case, warrantless eavesdropping and other matters.
APThe best way of combating the belly dancing menace is to export the current plague besetting the West, gross obesity.
There is nothing more certain to put an end to this evil pastime than to have grossly overweight rolls and rolls of wobbling pulsurating flesh spill out several metres from the anterior bodyline, making men run in desperation to that other Western disease, fermented goat’s urine (alcohol) to drown the images of such Satanic waves of engulfing bestiality adipose tissue ad nauseum and ad vomitim.
Australia (trying to close bold tags, let us hope it works)
Act II
Reaction to the court papers alleging President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney directed a leak campaign against critics of the Iraqi war…
“In light of today’s shocking revelation, President Bush must fully disclose his participation in the selective leaking of classified information. The American people must know the truth.” - Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada.
—————————-“One of the constants in the Bush administration’s miserable record on Iraq has been manipulation of intelligence precisely for political purposes. That has caused our intelligence - which used to be accepted without questions around the world - to be viewed with skepticism by the international community.” - House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California.
——————————-“If the president of the United States is authorizing leaks of classified material in order to destroy people who oppose his point of view, or go after them, then something is really unbelievably wrong with their standards, as well as the lack of accountability in this administration.” - Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.
———————————“If the disclosure is true, it’s breathtaking. The president is the leaker-in-chief.” - Rep. Jane Harman of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
———————————-Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said, “It’s time for the White House to ... just step forward and honestly state what they knew, when they knew it and what they did about it.”
———————————-New York Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer demanded an explanation from Bush and Cheney.
“The president has said he’d fire anyone who leaked this kind of information. But it now seems that he authorized leaks just like this in the first place. The American people deserve the truth,” he told reporters.
Australia
Act III
The less publicized side….
The Bush-hating side of the blogosphere is buzzing about the latest Plame-related news—that Scooter Libby is said to have told the grand jury that he was authorized by President Bush, via Vice President Cheney, to leak “certain information” that was contained in the National Intelligence Estimate. That information was not about Valerie Plame. Nonetheless, Andrew Sullivan thinks that President Bush is “nailed.” Tom Maguire thinks that Sullivan “can’t read.”
Andy McCarthy points out that there’s no reason to believe that the “certain information” in question was even classified. According to McCarthy, “Almost certainly, what Libby was permitted to do was preview for certain reporters some of the highlights of what was shortly going to be made public in the NIE. That is, NOT disclose the classified information, but talk about what was going to be in the public domain.”
JOHN adds; I’ll repeat what I wrote this morning, for the sake of those lame liberals who keep emailing us to ask why we aren’t talking about this “blockbuster” story.
This is the same “scandal” the press tried to sell a few months ago. I wrote about it here. The Sun article (unlike some other press accounts) explains clearly what was going on. Intelligence insiders like Joe Wilson were leaking a combination of falsehoods and minority views to the press in order to challenge the administration’s decision to go to war with Iraq. This was deeply unfair.
Australia
Act IV
In October 2002, the intelligence agencies presented to the administration their “consensus estimate” with regard to Iraq’s WMD programs. The consensus of all of the agencies (CIA, DIA, etc.) was, with a “high level of confidence”:
Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.
We are not detecting portions of these weapons programs.
Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles.
Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons grade fissile material.
————————————-The Bush administration naturally relied on the consensus of the intelligence agencies in making decisions about Iraq and in describing the dangers of Saddam’s regime to the American people. This is why the “Bush lied” theme is so foolish.
In the summer of 2003, as noted above, the administration was besieged with leaks from liberals in the CIA and elsewhere, as well as op-eds by the likes of Joe Wilson, that misrepresented the state of the intelligence prior to the Iraq war. In order to deal with these false claims, the administration declassified the 2002 intelligence estimate. (It didn’t help; the estimate remains a closely guarded secret among most MSM types.) The “leak” that you’re reading about in headlines today was simply the permission given to Scooter Libby to describe the contents of the consensus intelligence estimate a few days before it was officially declassified [I think it would be more accurate to say, before it was made public]. So in the MSM, the liberals’ false leaks are noble, while the administration’s declassification of the report that shows them to be false, in response, is a scandal!
Apologize for the terribly long off topic, but from where I sit….and NO I am not, in the halls of power, just an average person who sees the smoldering, the anger, the seething….
If this is the case in many places across this land….YOU, Australia are going to be the anointed leader of this war of civilization.
El Cid, why have you gone off topic?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 04 07 at 06:55 AM • permalinkWell I’m sorry you’re depressed, but stay on topic. I don’t let trolls do it, why should I let anyone else?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 04 07 at 07:14 AM • permalinkAnyone who goes off topic will be forced to watch bellydancers!
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 04 07 at 07:38 AM • permalinkActually bellydancing originated in Pharaonic Egypt - or so my dance teacher tells us. If you look at some of those ancient Egyptian wall carvings you see some of the ladies in poses which still exist in the dance today.
And by the way, #75, one of the pleasures of this kind of dance is that women of all shapes can learn to excel at it - you don’t have to be a Hollywood anorexic. Maybe that’s why the Islamoloonies hate it - because it’s OK to look like an actual woman instead of an underfed teenage boy, and we know how they feel about actual women.
Posted by Sonetka's Mom on 2006 04 07 at 08:08 AM • permalinkThis is a great topic. A lint-free, SearEmilyP-less, non-media topic about wiggling women in suggestive attire…
No, wait…. its a topic about murdering those wonderfully wiggly hip shakers. This topic sucks!
To the Administrator: Please start a new topic devoted strictly to the joy of belly dancing sans murder.
Thanks You.Geoff ... re olive branches to beat the bellydancers, that’s a great idea, but olive branches weren’t part of the Palo conceptualization of Peace on Earth, for some reason. Just doves and explosions. It was truly beautiful, poignant, and as another contributor noted on this page, nails the whole mess over there. Addendum re getting spat out into the alley alive and unsquashed, it was like a Christmas miracle right there in Bethlehem. Except the true Christmas miracle had happened a week earlier in the same crowded alley, when we got stuck in a throng of Pals and narrowly avoided being run over by Yasser Arafat’s motorcade. It was a sort of Running of the Bulls at Pamplona scenario, only with Land Cruisers, Mercedes and burly shouting shoving guys with AKs. I love the Holy Land. That place is out of control. Totally Biblical. Next time one of these threads gets on the Great Final Battle between Good and Evil, I’ll tell you about Armageddon and the Angel of Death. But I can’t do it now because I’m probably already pushing it and might get spanked by Andrea.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 07 at 09:00 AM • permalinkNext time one of these threads gets on the Great Final Battle between Good and Evil, I’ll tell you about Armageddon and the Angel of Death. But I can’t do it now because I’m probably already pushing it and might get spanked by Andrea.
As long as you’ll manage to draw an analogy between your story and Andrea’s battle against trolldom you’ll be fine. :) That doves-and-fireworks story made for a great read, thank you for posting that.
I for one oppose crushing bellydancing.
Wouldn’t mind giving it a good squeeze, tho.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 04 07 at 10:06 AM • permalinkMaybe they’ll make Marge Simpson the Minister Responsible for Belly-Dancing; she seemed to go pretty nuts over Homer and a fully-clad dancer.
And the PA does have schools, with the finest of translated German 1930’s history textbooks. Still, maybe Senator Osama Mama Murray (Douchebag; CA) can see about getting the Taliban to setup its world-famous daycare centres in the PA to help out Hamas?
Posted by andycanuck on 2006 04 07 at 10:07 AM • permalinkEliot Ness 15
Maybe if they could just train their goats to bellydance the world might just be a little bit safer…
After my evil, nefarious, and very very secretive Operation Shub-Niggurath pays off, and my ungulate legions take over, their goats will be teaching THEM to dance! And I? I will be the pied pan-piper of Pan-palestinian Goatistan!! NYAHAHAhahaHAHAHA!!!
Unfortunately at the present rate of mutation and selection, it’ll be 2026 before enough of the goats are pregnant enough to issue forth the numbers we need. Doesn’t worry me, though. The prospect of a viable human civilization emerging in that region, by that time, is vanishingly small. Hell, my goats are already smarter AND better looking than any of the muftis or clerics on the West Bank, ... but belly dancing ... well, that will take some time ...
Gotta go now, there’s a shoggoth outbreak in the south paddock.Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 04 07 at 10:24 AM • permalinkCrittendon 54
“Yeah, only around here we call it a goat fuck.”
That does it! I’m making a list. And in the coming Era of Shub-Niggurath, there will be ... repercussions!
Marshall D 75
that other Western disease, fermented goat’s urine (alcohol)
SHshshshshSH! Don’t you be publishing my recipes now!
Mr Ness 79
No wonder goats are nervous creatures in Muslim countries.
They’re NOT “nervous”! They’re just cranky! And who wouldn’t be?
Texas Bob 83
Jeremy Sear posing as the “sacrificial lamb” at one of Stoop Dave’s Annual Frolicking Goat Dance and Sausage Stuffing Fiesta
Yeah, it’s not for the squeamish, which is why we usually don’t let ol’ Wriggly Wrongway attend.
Still, as far as Non-anomynous Leftie is concerned, a Faustian bargain is a Faustian bargain; we’ve got his chin, and we’re NOT giving it back!Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 04 07 at 10:54 AM • permalinkYou know, you just can’t get a good goat kebab west of Gaza.
I submit to Andrea, Dark Mistress of Blair Castle, and acknowledge her supremacy in all matters, but will try to sneak this one in. If the threatened slaughter of bellydancers is not a skirmish in the Great Final Battle Between Good and Evil, I don’t know what is. Oddly, its another bird-related story. I don’t know what’s up with this bird thing. Never noticed until Leunig revealed his duck thing. I’m not crazy about birds. Not since I found out they are descended from T-rex and velociraptors.
Anyway, we had been up on the Golan Heights, subject of peace talks between the Syrians and the Israelis at that time. We dropped down off the Golan in the late afternoon, hoping to make Megiddo before sunset.
Megiddo is historic Armageddon. When John of Patmos was hallucinating in his cave, he needed to put the Final Battle somewhere. Tel Megiddo is a layer cake of 16 ancient cities. That’s how many times Armageddon has been destroyed. So it was a pretty safe bet, or at least would have some verissimilitude among his Near Eastern readers.
We got there after closing time, but flashed our Israeli press IDs and the guy opened the gate for us. Up on the old rock pile, which is quite high. The setting sun had set the sky afire, brilliant reds and pinks and oranges and purples. Across the valley at some distance, there was Nazareth sitting on its hilltop. A little north, another hilltop town, I forget the name, the one where Josephus got scooped up by Vespasian. Overhead, a flight of large birds was heading east, silhouetted black against fiery sky. Their vee formation shifted, broke up and reformed as an Aleph, the ancient A symbol. I said to my photog pal, “Look. A for Armageddon.”
Garo, of Armenian descent, said, no, those were cranes, the Armenian national bird, and they were heaeded toward Armenia. That was A for Armenia.
I don’t know if we have an Armos logged in. I love Armenians and all things Armenian and have seen their Sacred Mountain in the dawn. But they do tend to be like that. Its always about Armenia. End of the World, and its about Armenia.
Anyway, it all looked good up there on top of Tel Megiddo, but Garo started griping that there weren’t any people in the picture. He needed people to make a good picture. And I didn’t have anyone to quote. Not so good.
Then, in the corner of my eye, I spotted a dark figure. At a distance of a couple of hundred yards, a black caped, splindly legged figure, flowing black hair, was bounding over the ancient stones.
“Look, Garo,” I said. “It’s the Angel of Death. Let’s go get him!”
He had disappeared among the piles of tumbledown pillers and blocks, but we scoured the place, and soon enough came spotted him settling into in a little nest of stone. As we approached, he took the form of a bearded, heavily tattooed carpark attendant from Albuquerque. He told us he had read the Bible 12 times cover to cover, and was up to speed on Armageddon. He had saved up his money for this trip just to be here for the Millennium. This was where it all started and this was where it all would end, here in the Holy Land.
It was Dec. 29, 1999, and I said, so is this thing about to happen? ...You know, the Great Final Battle Between Good and Evil?
“The Great Final Battle Between Good and Evil is going on all around us. It has been going on for some time. You just can’t see it,” he said.
Garo and I exchanged glances. But that was 1999. A lot has happened since then, and I have since become more receptive to his point of view.
Footnote: the Israeli papers a day or two later reported this guy had been picked up by the Israeli cops, who did not want any loose nutcases precipitating the End Time.Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 07 at 12:35 PM • permalinkyou just can’t get a good goat kebab west of Gaza.
East of Gaza, either. Know why? Goats taste baaa-had. They’ve been selectively bred for gnasty flavor since 1997. If you like, you can blame Wronwright. Without his careless handling of the Tardis keys, I’d never have had access to 1997 ... let alone THIS many goats!
Nyahaha-and-so-forth…Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 04 07 at 02:07 PM • permalinkWhen in Turkey I was told that belly-dancing was acceptable only in Istanbul, Beirut and cairo ... cities way off the Islamist map ... BabylonX3, so to speak.
On a desert sufari just outside of Dubai city our dinner under the stars was entertained by a light-skinned belly dancer. After her performance I asked if she was from Istanbul. No, she said. Russia. She told me there was a belly dancing academy in her country that trained girls before they left for the middle-east.
I asked my guide the story and he said that the belly dancer was only there for the tourists. Arab women wouldn’t expose themselves like that he said.
Posted by Geoffrey MG on 2006 04 07 at 02:38 PM • permalinkAnd as for Muslim paranoia—easy to watch if you live in a Moslem country—check out Spengler’s latest essay, “Cat and mouse with Muslim paranoia” at Asia Times.
Posted by Geoffrey MG on 2006 04 07 at 02:41 PM • permalinkDamn your eyes. This is what comes from all this playing of God. Hopefully they still have some pure non-genetically jiggered strains of pre-97 goats somewhere out there in Derkaderkastan, because I have a hankering for a good goat shawerma.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 07 at 02:42 PM • permalinkWhen belly dancing is outlawed only outlaws will have belly dancers.
#104 Jotapata, critt, or Tel Jafat, as it is known today, is the town you are thinking of.
I lived in the Ramot Menashe for a couple years mid-70’s and spent a lot of time in those hills. Megiddo, it’s not just “a place”, though.
Megiddo assumes a prominent role largely owing to its strategic location astride the Megiddo Pass (Wadi Ara). The modern road follows the ancient one, actually.
Also, the best goat I ever ate was an end of Ramadan feast in Wadi Ara in the middle of an olive orchard with some Israeli Arabs I knew.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 07 at 04:56 PM • permalinkOh, and the best shwarma and felafel is (or was) to be found in Afullah. (IMHO)
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 07 at 04:59 PM • permalinkI defer to your superior flossing. Thanks re Jotapata ... for anyone who hasn’t read it, “The Jewish War” by Josephus is a great read. You can skip the two or so centuries of who was screwing who in Jewish nobility and go straight to the war. Josephus’ artful dodge in the cave at Jotapata and his visionary gambit at Vespasian’s feet are worthy of Flashman.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 07 at 05:20 PM • permalinkWronwright, I think Stoop has been getting into the Sumerian mead too often. He’s clearly got the DTs.
I have to say that the war Josephus was part of has to be one of the stupidest wars ever waged in history, and that is saying something. A country the size of Rhode Island revolted against the Roman Empire at the height of its power. Riiight. Some of the Jewish rebels matched the present Iranian mullahs for insanity. The Zealots during the siege of Jerusalem believed that the Lord would manifest Himself to save His Chosen People when the last extremity was reached, and thus bring them victory. To bring this glorious event on more quickly, they burned the food stores of the defenders.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 04 08 at 12:15 AM • permalink# 114 Stupid? Stupid?????
When Emperor Caligula declared himself a god and ordered his statues to be set up at every temple. The Jews refused, alone in the whole Empire, THE WHOLE EMPIRE, Lonie, to worship him.
They had done the same thing in 168 BCE when the Seleucid fuckwit Antiochus Epiphanes tried it—and kicked Greek ass from Dan to Beersheba.
The Sicarii and other Zealots were nutters, and at the end, ruined the effort at freedom, I don’t dispute that.
But from 66 CE, after routing the Roman garrison stationed in Jerusalem Rome, decimating Legio XII Fulminata (they lost their Eagle, man, something that hadn’t happend since the Teutoberger Wald), they tied up two more legions (X Fretensis, Legio X) and hundreds of thousands of auxilliarys for another seven years before the fall of Masada.
That took serious cojones, mate, and I am trying to maintain my composure as I write this. But I can’t…fuck you, and anyone else who chooses to roll over and die when their already 3000 years of tradition, way of life and choice of worship is challenged.
Ring a bell, mate? Maybe not—but it bloody well should.
Estimates of the death toll from that war range from 600,000 to 1,300,000 Jews: there was “no room for crosses and no crosses for the bodies”. Over 100,000 died during the siege of Jerusalem alone, and almost 100,000 were taken to Rome as slaves.
The Romans hunted down and slaughtered entire clans, such as descendants of the House of David. On one occasion, Titus condemned 2,500 Jews to fight with wild beasts in the amphitheater of Caesarea in celebration of his brother Domitian’s birthday.
Coins were struck. The coins inscribed Ivdaea Capta (Judea Captured) were issued throughout the Empire in order to demonstrate the futility of possible future rebellions. Judea was represented by a crying woman.
Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, as there is “no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own God”.
But Rome’s “Jewish Problem” was not over…vis the Kitos Wars 115-117, and vis particularly Simon Bar Kochba. That war took the Romans completely by surprise, actually restored a Sovereign Jewish state for two and a half year.
Hadrian had to recall his general Sextus Julius Severus from Britain (something for which I am sure the remnants of Boadicea’s Iceni were grateful), and troops were brought from as far as the Danube. The size of the Roman army amassed against the rebels was larger than that commanded by Titus Flavius sixty years earlier, but Roman losses were so heavy that the generals’ report to the Roman Senate omitted the customary formula “I and my army are well”.
The West can take a lesson from these “Stupid” people, as you call them, Mr. Lonie.
They’re still here, mate. Where the fuck is everyone else, eh?
Answer me that.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 08 at 06:31 AM • permalinkHey MentalFloss, as you describe the ‘Roman-Jewish Wars’ that’s exactly the three-part doucumentary I’d love to watch. Surely fundable by SBS or ABC?
Posted by Geoffrey MG on 2006 04 08 at 07:17 AM • permalinkSBS? ABC? What, you think this is some “Lord of the Rings” bullshit? You think Jackson and his Kiwi crowd could do this epic justice?
Besides, this is no “trilogy”, Geoffrey—this war is still going on—and the side you choose is up to you.
I am on the side that allows belly dancing.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 08 at 07:46 AM • permalinkABC and SBS would fund it alright Geoffrey MG (like the name by the way - but don’t press it)
But it would be all about the poor Roman refugees suffering under brutal occupation until finally achieving their legitimate national aspirations through the courageous and self-sacrificing leadership of Caligula.
</b> A few years ago I stopped in to the Excalibur in Las Vegas. Of course, kids aren’t allowed on the gaming floor, so kid’s entertainment was provided: a bellydancer!
Posted by nofixedabode on 2006 04 08 at 11:07 AM • permalink1. Those Roman Emperors, towards the end—actually, anyone after Augustus—were dress rehearsals for the End Times. Plus, they put most modern serial killers to shame!
2. When I was in Greece, up in country, no tourists, we had some tasty goat. Very spicy, ta-a-ay-sty goat! What, you never had Jamaican food, neither?
3. We used to go to this Middle East restaurant (BYOB) and feast and watch the belly dancers. Someone complained there was gender inequality at some point, I suppose, because that was the explanation upon a return visit, which is why amongst the females, there were 2 male bellydancers. Man, that was just…odd.
My husband had goat in a Mexican cafe in Roswell NM. He said it was outstanding.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2006 04 08 at 02:02 PM • permalink# 122 ushie,
1. You are quite right. The later Julians—after Augustus—and the Flavians were (except for maybe Claudius and Aurelius) totally rabid.
Oh, and yes, again, the Jews screwed themselves. After all that work getting the Greeks out, we get this chump Yochanan Hyrcanus (check the name—Greek influence going right to the top)—the Hasmoneans (Cohens, by the way, no rights to kingship) are becoming Hellenized after their ancestors had given their lives to throw off the yoke of hellenism.
Then, this twerp Yochanan Hyrcanus does a terrible anti-Jewish type thingy. As part of his effort to expand the borders of Israel, he forcibly converts the newly conquered peoples. This is something Judaism has never done before nor since—Jews discourage converts rather than the other way around.
One of the peoples that are forcibly converted at this time is the Idumeans (Arabs). To say this error costs the Jews dearly is an understatement.
So, the last two Hasmonean rulers are two brothers Hyrcanus and Aristobolus, both of whom are totally Hellenized. Hyrcanus is the weaker of the two but he has a strong advisor by the name of Antipater, a descendant of Idumean converts to Judaism (who just happens to have a baby boy named Herod).
The brothers are fighting with each other as to who should be king. The obvious answer is neither. But tell that to morally corrupt, power hungry men. They hit on the idea of asking Rome to mediate in their dispute.
Inviting the Romans in is not like inviting a multi-national peace-keeping force or international mediation team. We’re talking about people with an incredible energy to conquer and gain all the territory they can.
The year is 63 BCE and the great Roman general Pompeii is cleaning up the last of the Greek Empire. He is more than happy to oblige and move his armies into Israel.
Still, Pompeii didn’t get where he was by bein’ stupid. He actually asks around, studies a little local history, takes a quick look inside the Temple and says “I’m havin’ none of this, boys, let ‘em have a king, we’ll still get the taxes through Damascus”.
2. Ah! ushie, you are so right. I-ri-ate Goat Roti when I lived in Toronto, loved it, mon!3. That’s just sick—sick and wrong!
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 04 08 at 03:52 PM • permalinkTotally self-serving, but can I just comment on how pleased I am to have started an argument over 1st century troubles You-Know-Where, coicident with a debate on where to get the best goat kebab? Have to say I’ve been out-classed in the Roman/Hebrew history department and must step to the side. However, will say the shawerma hole-in-the-wall on the northwest corner of the square in Bethlehem is hard to top. Place would appear to have been in continuous operation since the time of Christ and they know their business.
Posted by crittenden on 2006 04 09 at 12:46 AM • permalink
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