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MAYBE SHE THINKS “SEPTEMBER 11” REFERS TO THE NUMBER KILLED
What the hell is it with Nobel Prize winners?
“I always hated Tony Blair, from the beginning,” she said. “Many of us hated Tony Blair, I think he has been a disaster for Britain and we have suffered him for many years. I said it when he was elected, ‘this man is a little showman who is going to cause us problems’ and he did.
They do like to hate.
She is a moron for thinking that what the IRA did with a campaign of bombings which largely caused minor inconveniences at best, and the odd casualty at worst, is comparable to a literal declaration fo war between a country and a terrorist organisation.
Most of the deaths were to fellow countrymen and most were due to power struggles.
You’ve heard of the
Peter Principle?Well, Nobel is now the Peter Prize.
I suspect that The Australian of the Year is becoming some sort of corollary to the Peter Principle and Peter Prize.
I could never get what was the big deal about her. Ooh, she was a “woman writing!” So? And she wrote one of the most deranged science fiction series I’d ever encountered. That’s pretty good for a genre where weirdness is king. Oh excuse me, non-gender-specific humanoid ruler.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 10 23 at 11:00 PM • permalinkNobbled Prize?
First Gore
Now Lessing.
Lessing has a good name to describe the lessing of Nobel Prize value.Posted by stackja1945 on 2007 10 23 at 11:00 PM • permalinkSeptember 11th - Not as bad as when I stubbed my toe and forgot to put rubbish out.
Good to see Kool-Aid have released a clear version.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 23 at 11:04 PM • permalinkHere’s my favorite quote:
“Some Americans will think I’m crazy. Many people died, two prominent buildings fell, but it was neither as terrible nor as extraordinary as they think. They’re a very naive people, or they pretend to be,” she said of the Americans.
Gosh no, Doris, I can’t imagine any American thinking you crazy. And just so you guys know, I only pretend to be.
At the risk of sounding poorly read, I don’t think I’ve heard of her.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 10 23 at 11:05 PM • permalinkOf course 11 September was terrible. I was only 23 blocks away at the time, though thankfully not directly affected.
I admire Doris Lessing and like her writing but agree that this was a stupid thing to say.
Maybe she was genuinely taken out of context and simply wanted to draw attention to a long, drawn-out reign of terror compared to one day in September 2001?
Not that there may not be more, but I was in Northern Ireland staying with relatives when the IRA was in its heyday, and it could be quite terrifying at times.
I also don’t forget that the IRA “accidentally” killed two young Australian men in a Belgium public square.
What’s more, I despise a Gerry Adams a lot more than I can dislike a Doris Lessing.
Lessing seems to have found reason to like her Nobel prize, an interesting change of mind.
Well, who said lefties had to be consistent?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 10 23 at 11:36 PM • permalinkLet’s not over-react. She’s right, “things are not that terrible”. I’ll just re-interpret her words;
“I and my beliefs are terrible, but if one goes back over the history of leftist writing, what I happen to say to Americans and the world isn’t that terrible,”
“rational people will know I’m crazy. Many dreadful books were written, but that was neither as terrible nor as extraordinary as they think. They’re a very naive people, or they pretend to be,” she said of the Americans.
“Do you know what people forget? That Noam Chomsky has also been writing much worse treason, bile and drivel.”
Noam Chomsky went to Pakistan in the days just prior to our sending in forces against AQ and Talib in Afghanistan.
He went to Pakistan and gave lectures, radio interviews and news paper interviews proclaiming that it was the secret American agenda to cause at least 3 million deaths in Afghanistan by starvation.
Chomsky went to Pakistan expressly to motivate the citizenry there to take up arms against his own countrymen in a foreign field of battle.
And yet he still lives.
We have become that weak, stupid and feeble.
From Lessing’s Wikipedia entry:
Her novel The Golden Notebook is considered a feminist classic by some scholars, but notably not by the author herself, who later wrote that its theme of mental breakdowns as a means of healing and freeing one’s self from illusions had been overlooked by critics.
Okay, I’m starting to understand why she was chosen.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 10 23 at 11:57 PM • permalinkDoris is one of those Nobel Lit winners whose writing is denser than congealed porridge. I read The Golden Notebook when I was about 25 and mostly persevered with it because several women friends kept saying, ‘Oh, great feminist story, good on you!’ Eventually all of them - ALL of them - confessed that they’d either never read it or tried and given up.
Doris, like Patrick White, goes on that special shelf in my library, from which books are only taken to be donated to the Save The Children Fund annual book sale.Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 23 at 11:57 PM • permalinkWow, serendipity! Well timed, Kyda.
Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 23 at 11:58 PM • permalinkWhat’s she ever done for literature? Why wasn’t PACO recognised for the genius he is?
Am I deluded, or is the whole world a conspiracy against truth and niceness?
Posted by Hero Schema on 2007 10 24 at 12:03 AM • permalinkOT- inflation figures released- eight year low- the ABC’s ignoring this and running with the interest rate rise scare propaganda they had all prepared in the expectation of a rise.
morons
Posted by eeniemeenie on 2007 10 24 at 12:08 AM • permalinkChrisPer, when you say ‘have her’... no, forget I ever mentioned it.
Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 24 at 12:14 AM • permalinkLessing needs a lesson in political reality.
Posted by The Best Infidel on 2007 10 24 at 12:23 AM • permalink5. kae
Oh, that old hag broke the glass ceiling on The Peter Principle, and she’s not just the exception who proves the rule. The MacArthur “Genius Grant” is a notorious indicator of mediocrity. Most winners take their half-million and go on into obscurity. It’s like a curse… well, except for the fact that those bastions of mediocrity who win are made rich.
#35
those bastions of mediocrity are made rich
mediocre basturds
***
Tim, have you got enough moolah for a
stubbierehoboam, methuselah, salmanazar, balthazar or nebuchadnezzar yet?And how did the Brits reaspond to the minor annoyance of the IRA? Had something to do with troops… deploying troops…
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 10 24 at 12:39 AM • permalinkThis is the same Doris Lessing who wrote the unspeakably awful Canopus: In Argo books, right?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 10 24 at 01:13 AM • permalinkRichard: yup. They came out when I was still a huge scifi fan and I almost made the mistake of reading them. Fortunately I always skim books before I take them out of the library…
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 10 24 at 01:16 AM • permalinkShe also failed to note that 9/11 was also the attempted murder of 100,000 people (not including Flight 93’s potential target).
Posted by andycanuck on 2007 10 24 at 01:32 AM • permalinkOh my, Doris Lessing, another drunken old hag who once wrote a book is pontificating about things she knows nothing about.
Will these loudmouthed mummers, authors and artistes ever just shut up?
As if anyone gives a rat’s arse what they think.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 10 24 at 01:40 AM • permalinkWay back in school we had core requirements, one of which was a number of fine arts courses - we could take electives. So this being Southern California in the ‘70’s, there was a course in science fiction which I happily signed up for. I figured Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, those guys. Maybe Andre Norton. Lem seemed a safe bet. Knew it would be too much to hope for Keith Laumer.
Huh. Dopey me. Among the books assigned was one by Lessing, and one by William Burroughs. I am still not convinced they were bona fide SF, but they were literary as hell. And excruciating, too.
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 10 24 at 01:49 AM • permalink#3 Peter M.
You may like to read up on the IRA campaign.
To suggest that it was NOT a state of war between a government and a terroist organisation is grossly incorrect.
To suggest that it was minor inconvenience and the odd casualty is disrespectful to the thousands who died.
Doris Lessing was most unfortunate in her choice of words when she said 9/11 was not that terrible, but her point is valid.
Posted by Steve at the pub on 2007 10 24 at 02:34 AM • permalinkBTW, the IRA campaign against the UK could not have been sustained without the financing from the USA via public donations.
The money was used to bomb McDonald’s restaurants, youth bands (when playing), cabinet meetings, assassination of WW2 war heroes, ambushes of military parades, etc etc etc.
Posted by Steve at the pub on 2007 10 24 at 02:36 AM • permalink47 - And as I recall, Mister Give Peace A Chance Imagine No Religion I Wonder If You Can John Lennon was a donor of funds to the IRA.
Good old John. If he was around today he’d be running a mobile kitchen for the Taliban.Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 24 at 02:58 AM • permalinkLessing’s statement is nasty and unnecessary for a writer of her stature. There’s no need to rank one tragedy over the other. The IRA caused grief to many over years and 9/11 was a one-day tragedy with much, much more to come.
She probably just said that because of all the group-think anti-Americanism around.
Posted by carpefraise on 2007 10 24 at 03:56 AM • permalinkLessing says the 9/11 attacks weren’t as bad as IRA terrorism because “the IRA attacked with bombs against our Government.”
Is it possible she doesn’t know AA Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, or that al Qaeda also apparently intended to crash UA Flight 93 into the US Capitol?
Posted by Serenity Now on 2007 10 24 at 04:28 AM • permalinkMohammad Atta and his band of shaved testicles brothers were simply flying those planes to another location where they could air their grievances about The Great Satan. It is due to the failure of the US education system that they weren’t experienced enough, and crashed into those tall buildings. September 11th was a bad accident, not a terrorist attack.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 10 24 at 04:36 AM • permalinkYeah, yeah, I see her point. But for someone crediting with being a note worthy author, I’d expect clearer sentence structure.
She said, Nearly 3,000 people were killed in the Sept 11 attacks of 2001. More than 3,500 died and thousands more were injured in more than 30 years of violence in Northern Ireland. So, I suppose she’s saying that NY suffered tragedy for a short period, while Northern Ireland suffered for decades. OK. No problem there.
But to go on to suggest that the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers wasn’t terrible and extraordinary is a statement I’d expect from the muslim community, not a Nobel Prize winner. Do you suppose she’d feel that way if she or a member of her family had been on say, the 88th floor of either tower that day? I bet not.#50, 52, 54 - Spot on.
Both tragedies, both requiring a well thought through political, diplomatic and military response.
Both September 11 and the multi-generational IRA conflict in Ireland were tragedies - massive amount of innocent people killed. The sooner Doris and other “intellectuals” can realise this, the sooner our mass media will stop thinking that reporting these sentiments as having any merit at all.
Just in case anyone is in any doubt about what is going on in the USA (what with the HLF mistrial and all) there is a very interesting speech here, by none other than the daughter of Nasser’s intelligence chief (in the 1950s) in Gaza, Ms. Nonie Darwish.
Here’s an extract:Moslem clergy are constantly looking for the ideal Muslim State and cannot find it. They have failed miserably in stabilizing their society. Instead of being a source of comfort, stability and wisdom, they have become a source of hate, rage and subversion. To them, the solution is always an intifada, uprising, a coup d’etat, an assassination or violence on the streets. They have no respect for the legitimacy of any government and no government is Muslim enough for them; not even Saudi Arabia.
In this dynamic only tyrannical governments can survive. Leaders who want peace, modernity and reforms are assassinated, like Sadat. Every Muslim country is suffering from underground radical Muslim groups who are trying to overturn the government and the constitution, in their pursuit for the perfect Muslim state. That is why the Muslim world is in a constant turmoil, stagnation and conflict. Islamo-fascism is the end result.
America is very concerned since all of this is spilling to the rest of the world. In 1998 the same attitude was expressed by a Muslim leader who asked Muslims in America not to assimilate and said we are here to make the Koran the law of the land in America. What Arab leaders are suffering from is now moving to America and if that will continue our freedoms will erode. Islamo-fascist unrest, turmoil, destructive mentality and hatred of order and the rule of law is now here.Arab governments have access to build mosques in the West, but give Americans no access to build churches or synagogues in Muslim countries. They finance Muslim and Middle East studies departments on American Universities—but there is not one University in any of the 52 Muslim countries that have a Christian or Judaism Studies Department. They freely preach Islam all around the world, but imprison and kill Christian missionaries.
60 - If you replaced ‘Muslim’ with ‘Soviet’ it would all still make sense. Funny, that.
Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2007 10 24 at 09:03 AM • permalinkLessing feels that way about 9/11 because it happened to Americans, those “little Eichmans,” and “tunnel rats” that commute into Manhattan to work and support their families. Are we really surprised at her comments? Given the predominance of leftists in the arts, I expect nothing profound or even decent from them. I will say this about Ms. Lessing: even though her comments show profound ignorance and depravity, there are many liberal-leftists that reside in Manhattan who feel the same way about 9/11 as her.
Posted by Mark Razak on 2007 10 24 at 09:48 AM • permalinkWilliam Faulkner upon receiving word that he had won the Nobel prize for literature.
Paraphrasing here.
That’s very nice and I can use the money. But I’m not leaving Mississippi in the middle of hunting season.
It took the state department to persuade him to receive the prize in person. He delivered one of the most notable acceptance speeches in Nobel history.Obviously, I prefer Faulkner to Lessing.
September 11 was terrible, but if one goes back over the history of the IRA, what happened to the Americans wasn’t that terrible,” she told Spanish newspaper El Pais. “Some Americans will think I’m crazy. Many people died, two prominent buildings fell, but it was neither as terrible nor as extraordinary as they think. They’re a very naive people, or they pretend to be,” she said of the Americans.
I don’t think she’s crazy. I just don’t think she’s as smart as rightwing death beasts. Because unlike her, RWDB’s understand that 9/11 wasn’t merely an act of terrorism. It marked the convergence of three things:
1. a group of people evil enough to commit an act of mass murder
2. a WMD
3. in a major US cityIt’s the #2 that has forced the US’s hand and required us to take drastic measures to change things in the Middle East.
Wait a minute. Doris Lessing won a Nobel Prize. But I understand this and she does not. Does that not mean I’m a hell a lot smaller than a Nobel Prize winner?
Posted by wronwright on 2007 10 24 at 10:42 AM • permalink#64 - no, wronwright, it just means your priorities are screwed up.
Posted by Steve Skubinna on 2007 10 24 at 12:13 PM • permalink“Many people died, two prominent buildings fell, but it was neither as terrible nor as extraordinary as they think. They’re a very naive people, or they pretend to be.”
And yet her best comparison to that single day is Britain’s thirty-year war with the IRA. Why not compare like with like? Perhaps she could choose a single day in that thirty-year war that matches 9/11. Or perhaps she could body-count the last thirty years of war between Islamic fascism and the West.
What a parochial, unsophisticated, grandiose ignoramus.
But then, that’s what they give the Prize for, isn’t it?
#47—BTW, the IRA campaign against the UK could not have been sustained without the financing from the USA via public donations.
Unfortunately, you are quite right. Irish-American pols treated Gerry Adams like a long-lost brother and sent him home with suitcases full of money every time he came over (Bill Clinton even received him at the White House). It was quite frankly disgusting and 9-11 put a stop to it. Chalk it up as one of 9-11’s silver linings.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 10 24 at 02:52 PM • permalink#68 Spot on Kyda. One of my first thoughts after 9-11 was the similarity between the IRA and the al Q.
I thought at the time that people will start to become aware of how terrible the IRA bombers were, and it could well mean the end of support for the IRA.
The IRA campaign was terrorism in its purest form.
The big difference was that the Muslims were more effective terrorists than the Catholics. It took them a few hours to achieve more than the IRA had achieved in 30 years.
That said, it is puerile of Lessing to claim that one terror is more terrible than another.
It is a lazy writer’s ploy to provide a hook for lazy journalists. At age 88, she would well know that a good way to get into the headlines is to claim record body counts.She is a moron for thinking that what the IRA did with a campaign of bombings which largely caused minor inconveniences at best, and the odd casualty at worst, is comparable to a literal declaration fo war between a country and a terrorist organisation.
Peter m (#3): I’d love you to get up in Maggie Thatcher’s face and talk such a load of bullshit. I guess the names of the people who were killed or permanently disabled in the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton would be “minor inconveniences” or “odd casualties” to you. Lady Thatcher might beg to differ; Lord Tebbitt - who was seriously injured, alone with his wife who was permanently disabled - certainly would rip you a new arsehole.
Posted by Craig Ranapia (OtherPundit) on 2007 10 25 at 07:03 AM • permalink
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One can tell from the photo that she’s obviously been into the sauce. Deep.