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LIBERTY
Thanks to the Howard government, university students will no longer be compelled to join unions. The children, they have been freed! Some folks aren’t happy:
Australian Vice-Chancellors Committee head John Mullarvey branded the changes a “disastrous outcome for the Australian university system because no longer do we look to university education as being holistic — that is, addressing not only the mind but the body and soul”.
Oh, get a job.
UPDATE. Susan Norton speaks for many:
Compulsory student unionism was the most reactionary, oppressive, undemocratic, corrupt and generally disgraceful institution in Australia, supported by a particularly unsavory and contemptible coalition of racketeers, fools, cowards and political fanatics. If reports of its demise are correct, every Australian, and in particular every Australian student, should be celebrating.
Damn straight. In fact, to appease the left, celebrating should be compulsory.
The VCs are just worried that they’ll have to cough up for services themselves.
Posted by Speculative Catholic on 2005 12 09 at 10:22 PM • permalink”... that is, addressing not only the mind but the body and soul.”
Emphasis is mine.
I thought those Australian universities are secular, not religious. What, were these student unions actually forced monastic orders? At a college?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 09 at 10:43 PM • permalinkI am a member of a University sporting facility. I use the gymnasium because it is open to the local community.
We have been told our fees will increase if this wicked legislation passes.
I will just have to console myself with the benefit of poster free telegraph poles, stripped of student communists propaganda that is funded by union fees.It will be worth every extra penny.
I used to help with the campaigning for the student unions in Brisbane (I’m sure master rove would have been proud of my infiltration), only because it was the lesser of two evils. Either labour right tools that although frivolous with the uni cash at least keeps the books in the black (some of the time). Or shoe-less hippies who wanted to give $60,000 to the original inhabitants of the university grounds, and always left the books in the red (not to mention organising stupid protest, and handing out millions of F*&%ing flyers that I’m sure amounted to a pine plantation).
In theory I’m sure student unionism could have worked if it wasn’t so dam corrupt and plagued by stupid hippies thinking that in some way they are going to change the world by not taking showers.
Hey they said communism would work in theory to….
Thank god student unionism is dead at last, although I did enjoy the student sponsored binge drinking that I was provided for my services.
So long Trotsky scum.
Breaking news—it appears that anti-VSU forces have vandalised Senator Fielding’s office and intimidated his staff.
That’s a justification for voluntary student unionism in itself.
Posted by Evil Pundit on 2005 12 09 at 11:06 PM • permalinkI wonder if Australian university lefties won’t try to get some of their funding back with a scam like Ralph Nader’s been using since the ‘70s. The contributions are ‘voluntary’, but no-one tells the students that they volunteered…
I have a mixed opinion about this. Student fees fund a range of activities including bars, sporting facilities and the Liberal and ALP Clubs. While I don’t mind forking out for some things, I object to my money being spent on trips to student conferences like NUS and the women’s collective annual meeting (Fish Week). As I have enrolled to do postgraduate studies next year, I know that as a part-time student I am not going to use any of the services. Student organisations (and they are not always called unions) should be more accountable, but I would be concerned about university life without them. Cripes, I first dipped into the world of publishing by getting involved with the student paper, Semper Floreat.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 09 at 11:44 PM • permalinkDarlene -
Not having to fork out the Student Union fees will leave each Student 600 bucks better off.
They can spend that wherever they want - beer, sport, or going on hippy protests.
The upside? Now it’s only your own money you’re wasting.
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 12 10 at 12:14 AM • permalinkOr shoe-less hippies who wanted to give $60,000 to the original inhabitants of the university grounds, and always left the books in the red (not to mention organising stupid protest, and handing out millions of F*&%ing flyers that I’m sure amounted to a pine plantation).
Yes, funny how that invariably happens. At my university, the one year that the far-left quasi-communist student group* here managed to be the largest faction in our student parliament and thus got to form student government, they managed to run over a €120,000 budget by nearly €80,000.
* As opposed to the 2 or 3 regular-left, quasi-socialist groups, and the 2 regular-left, full-on-green groups that we also have on offer. (Plus the occasional moonbat-left groups that tend to form, only to spontaneously self-destruct a few months later.) We also got two center-right groups (one Christian democrat, one libertarian) - they’re usually pulling in about 15% combined in the student elections, 20% in good years. Sigh.Our union was pretty much run by far left nutcases.
The only exception I can remember is when the on campus Liberal party, and Labor-Right ran on a unity ticket and defeated a Left faction that had splintered ala Monty Python and the Judean People’s Liberation front style.
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 12 10 at 12:25 AM • permalinkOT: Blairistan troll Bryla arrested! See here.
Those charged include Mulhearn, 37, of Sydney, Jim Dowling, 50, of Dayboro near Brisbane, Brian Law, 51, of Cairns, Adele Goldie, 29, of Brisbane, and Sean O’Reilly, 47, of Brisbane.
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 12 10 at 12:37 AM • permalinkI loved the anti-VSU argument that university sporting clubs would wither and die without student union support, especially at rural campuses (the Nats picked that one up and ran with it).
How many country footy clubs and even leagues are falling over for lack of players? Maybe some of these rural uni students can join the local team and mix with the uneducated rural rabble.
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2005 12 10 at 12:46 AM • permalinkMy problem with the rural campus argument that seems to have convinced Barnaby is that in regions poor with non-campus services like cafes or bookshops or sports clubs, there is all the more reason for people to join a student union and pool their resources off their own bat and all the less reason for compulsion. The stridency of the insistence on compulsion is a sure sign some number of people are being ripped off—like older and already working students who don’t need the services or the life experience. That’s even before you consider the stupid and apparently irreformable politics.
I remember being forced to pay 4 weeks of my then part time job wages to the Union at Newcastle in 1978. This was 50% of the cost of my annual textbook requirements, and one hell of a lot of money at that time.
I got nothing out of it. It mostly went (80% plus!) to the Socialist Alliance, ALP and other assorted leftie causes, many in support of the USSR! None of those bastards deigned to have part time jobs, but they all demanded handouts of other student’s money to fund their activist causes.
Certainly they spent none of it on soap.
The sports clubs got very litle of this money, there were ‘higher moral priorities’, nearly all in support of what turned out to be causes supported in the end by the KGB and their ‘useful fools’.I recall the horror they expressed when the Young Liberals on Campus (no, I was not one) requested equal treatment when it came to handouts. ‘No f****** way’ was the politest response the luvvies gave.
We got so pissed off by the blatancy of the ripoff (engineering students were like that) that we used to break up their various wankfests and protests. The rule was to always let the peace activists throw the first bottle or punch. Then we’d get stuck in to the buggers.
SO I celebrating today! The bludgers who have sponged off the students with this vile little ripoff now have to fund their activism themselves.
MarkL
CanberraCompulsory student unionism was the most reactionary, oppressive, undemocratic, corrupt and generally disgraceful institution in Australia, supported by a particularly unsavory and comptable coalition of racketeers, fools, cowards and political fanatics. If reports of its demise are correct, every Australian, and in particular every Australian student, should be celebrating.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 12 10 at 01:26 AM • permalinksorry, that should “contemptable.” Everyone who supported compulsory student unionism was a turd. No ecxeptions.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 12 10 at 01:31 AM • permalinkThis is one of those issues that if compulsory student unionism hadn’t been allowed in the first place in the dim dark past and become entrenched there would be no debate. Imagine if we were starting a university sysem now, does anyone think that a proposal to force students to contribute to a union would get past the first burst of laughter? That is one benefit. Just watch a future labor government try to reintroduce it. I’d say impossible in student unions’ current form.
University unions and sporting clubs won’t die. Sensible ones will increase prices for services they deliver to people who aren’t union members and offer discounts for members. People can do their own cost benefit analysis. Joining the union can then be a matter of what it offers, be it cheaper services, political activity, sport etc - just like in the real world.
And if individual universities find that important services aren’t being delivered, they can decide themselves whether to charge a compulsory admin fee to help fund them - just don’t make someone join a union.
My experience of student unionism was as described by MarkL #22, except withhout the violence.
I went to the same uni as Barnaby Joyce - albeit a bit before his time. There were about 100 of what we called ‘Rads’ who used to spend all the money on the same ridiculous things and hold a protest every couple of months that only they attended. Generally these Rads enrolled in about one unit a semester and consequently were permanent students. They often managed to organise bogus jobs with the union to pay their way and in order to retain power they employed all the tricks an inner city ALP branch would be proud of.
The fees were massive and I don’t recall getting any benefits from them. But I do remember asking why on earth we had to pay them.
Their behaviour during those times resulted in mainstream students making up slogans such as the famous “Land Rights for Gay Whales”, among others.
Also, as others have pointed out here, the VSU debate has been notable for the lack of input from the Civil Liberties wankers defending students’ freedom of association particularly freedom to not be forced to join political bodies.Mospack—You need a union to DRINK? I thought Oz was a free country?
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 12 10 at 02:15 AM • permalinkSo, how does this work in the antipodes?
At my uni, you couldn’t even enrol at the start of each semester unless you had proof that you’d paid your compulsory union fees.
Posted by Art Vandelay on 2005 12 10 at 02:18 AM • permalinkpaco don’t laugh. It’s a “no ticket no start” operation. In my day there was a national body called the Australian Union of Students. You were automatically a member of this as well as the local university union. However there were no general student elections for office bearers of the AUS. To this day it is a mystery to me how they were selected but they were funded handsomely by a compulsory levy on the compulsory constituent union fees.
Control of the purse strings was divided between Maoists and Trotskyists. There was no real argument. The money was always spent on airfares, dope and supporting the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
Same with mine ArtVandelay, and the fees were the equivalent of about 8 weeks board at the college I lived in.
Paco, the fees covered membership of the Australian Student’s Union, our local University student representative body (ours was the SRC) and the Sports Union. The fees were compulsory - you had no choice but to pay. As Art said, you couldn’t even enrol each year without proof that you had already paid your fees.
The unions were always controlled by far left dickheads who emplyed all sorts of devious means to retain power, and the funds were, by and large, pissed up against the wall by these dickheads.
The general student population received bugger-all in return for these compulsory, exorbitant imposts.The only students that lose out are those whose net take from the union fund pool was greater than the average i.e. the leeches. Private enterprises can provide services, students will pay them for the service, middle man is done away with. If reports are correct on-campus food will be cheaper in some instances as you won’t have to union screwing the owners on rent. This is a problem?
(or can be cheaper above, maybe the uni will be the one cutting deals with business owners now instead of the union).
#10 RebeccaH, although you may not have paid into something called a “student union” (except when you walked to it to buy a Coke and a slice of pizza), you probably contributed to something similar: a student fund.
I went to three colleges/universities (yes, three, I have degrees and certifications plastered all over my wall, fat lot of good it does getting respect from Karl). Each school required students to pay into a fee set up for student organizations. At an undergraduate university I attended, we worked on setting up a new organisation for International Students. In order to be approved by the school, we had to write a constitution, submit it to the Student Senate, confer with a special committee set up to vote it up or down, and hold elections. We went through that whole rigamarole but in the end we received maybe $2000 or more in funding and additional funds for International Week, banquets, etc. Real sweet deal.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 12 10 at 02:32 AM • permalinkFinally!
This makes pretty much a 100% result for John Howard. I would not be the least bit surprised to see him retire next March.
I was looking thru some papers and found the SMH “Decision 96” liftout published March 4 1996. Wonderful picture of ‘David’ Howard with ‘Goliath’ Keating’s head on a pike. And then that gutless wonder Keating lacked the cojones to face Howard when Parliament resumed.
#29 that union jockeying was still going on 2 years ago, you couldn’t get your grades if you hadn’t paid their stupid union fees. In the end I managed to get the union to pay mine for me due to my privileged position as I had seen the (lack of) accounting records for the union (again master rove would have been proud indeed)
#29 union or no union there was Plenty of drinking, it was uni. But those privy to the union never seemed to pay for their drinks. Often when they offered to pay thy got twice the amount back in change
So anyway has anyone got a random venue for the VSU celebration party.
I was an office bearer in my student union. It was well known that being in student politics was merely preparation for the bigger game. For those on the left, just about all went on and got preselection at some level of government. From those on the right, I think they are generally running their own businesses, creating rug-rats and paying taxes.
And my long winded point is this: politicians on the left tend to start their careers early, develop good factional skills, but have lived outside of reality for many years before they get into federal politics. Could explain why the ALP is stale, rudderless and two dimensional. The left should look at this as a blessing in disguise. They may have to abandon student unions in favour of a real career. Perhaps with a bit of life success under their belts they will have something to contribute. But I doubt it.
Just in case it’s still not clear to our American cousins, a student union in Australia is/was organised along the lines of a labour union.
To be honest, I have little time for the arts faculty side of universities. I got disillusioned when in a pre-intake interview I was asked about my political leanings.
Thank God for the cadetship.
Then there was the compulsory unionism of the Australian Journalists Union - but Hawkie-Keating took care of that…
See lefties, it’s not all Howard’s fault.
—Nora
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2005 12 10 at 03:10 AM • permalinkYou couldn’t enroll at the university I went to until you had coughed up the $300 for the Union. So my long suffering parents would be hit up for some more money. What me pay for it? I already had two jobs but that money was long gone. Old Italian cars were expensive to keep on the road.
One on my mates wrote for the Student Union funded newspaper. I remember the cops were called in because one guy had spent a large part of newspapers budget buying pot for his cronies.
Last year I went entered Uni after many years in the work force. I love HECS as it allows me to pay off my fees (free Uni is bull%$^#) but then I get these up front fees to pay for left and green propaganda.
As a former farmer with family still in the industry this did not make me very happy.
Tonight I celebrate. High ho the wicked witch is dead!Look, I concede most student unionists are careerists, creeps and drongos. I for a brief moment sat on the Student Council and I am none of those things. However, just because there are dickheads in politics doesn’t mean the whole system should be finished with. As I said, as a postgrad my needs will be much different than as an undergrad (when I only went to lectures when I wanted), but services like student newspapers, bars, sports and stuff are not that bad. I bet most of you used them at some point. Of course, I got pissed at the office Christmas party last night and it could still be the drink talking.
Like Youngy, I am a big fan of HECS and I have always loathed the middle-class whiners who oppose it and who think education should be free.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 10 at 04:53 AM • permalinkOh and yes I was an Arts student too. Want to make something of it?
Perhaps we could sit around deconstructing bridges?
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 10 at 04:54 AM • permalinkStudent councils - HAH - when I returned to Macquarie Uni ~ 1975/6 to finish my bachelors and start postgrad, I was elected president of MUGS - Macquarie University Geological Society. I automatically got a seat on the Earth Science Admin committee as the student representative.
My elevation to this role was greeted with loud acclaim from the geoscientists. It was met with ....... from the rest.
But eliminating student fees is not the solution though it is a start. Sacking the twits in social sciences would be a more productive exercise except we would need to fell a few forests to produce enough paper to fulfill the anti-dismassal regulations.
At uni I was at different times a member of the film club, the chess club, and the writing club. I regularly read the paper (Honi Soit), the magazine (UR) and the yearly publications (Tangent and Hermes were the most prominent), and I got published in UR.
Yeah, I was a lazy bludging arts student and I took full advantage of the extra curricular student life. Will this be damaged by VSU? Yeah, but a lot of the activities of these organisations didn’t really need to be subsidised by the unions; they acted independently.
I also think that student ‘culture’, like a lot of culture in Australia, has become a little dependent upon institutions like CSU - to the extent that other valid forms of income - sponsorship, subscription, etc - can be neglected. There’s an automatic assumption that cash will somehow miraculously appear whenever they want to do something. It’s not too difficult to see that this is not only stupid but detrimental to any culture, be it student culture, national culture, or otherwise.So, I reckon that student life will be temporarily damaged, but I also think that it will bounce back. Ironically, if I went back to Uni now, I’d seriously consider paying the unions - not because of all the bullshit they spout about students needing them, or the political bile they spew - but because I believe strongly in the importance of voluntary associations; and think that they can effect changes for the better. I’d certainly do all that I can to support the services most dear to my heart - the writing clubs and the student publications.
rant on:- my COMPULSORY student union fees were used by the dreadlocked smelly hippie dipshit lefties on my campus to travel to and fund every whacky left-wing protest going.
Daintree forest protests, pro gay and lesbian protests - the list goes on.
Now I’m a conservative voting Christian ok? (quell horror!).
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and a lefty student was forced to fund my agenda?
How would a barefoot mung-bean munching hippie lefty muckwit cope with shelling out a couple of grand for me to use to fund a ‘G.W.Bush mandated compulsory rifle training course’ on campus? Or maybe using the money to fund a ‘pro life’ anti- abortion campaign?
THAT’S what it was like for me on campus. MY MONEY was extorted from me and used to fund things that I consider totally abhorrent.
rant off -
p.s - Darlene? you’re wrong. I cant put it any plainer than that
p.p.s. I’m stoked that V.S.U got up - in case you didnt notice.Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 12 10 at 05:35 AM • permalinkCheck out this article in The Age!
“THE Federal Government has lost its last battle of the year — pushing through its controversial bill to outlaw compulsory student unionism.
Despite last-ditch compromises, Education Minister Brendan Nelson appears to have failed to win the key support of either maverick Nationals Senator Barnaby Joyce or Family First Senator Steve Fielding.
The Government held an 11th-hour party room meeting last night to discuss compromise plans to fund university campus services and sports clubs. But no deal has been reached, meaning the legislation will wait until Parliament resumes in February.”
Now is that piss poor, or what?
Darlene Taylor, you make it obvious that you ARE a creep and drongo, prepared to let others be compelled to pay for your likkle hobbies and to excuse an uttrerly rotten and corrupt system. Piss off.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 12 10 at 06:14 AM • permalinkI work in a University and the money we waste on a day to day basis is astonishing.
We have primary school kids in demountable classrooms with no air conditioning and Stuart MacGill is shitty cause he will now have to buy his own cricket balls. Get fucked Stuart.
We have high school kids huddling 4 at a time round 1 computer and Darp is worried the Hockey girls will have to buy their own skirts. Get fucked Darp.
We send our kids home from school with boxes of chocolate to flog door to door to buy books and Barnaby Joyce is worried about Queer Collectives. Get fucked Barnaby.
Where are these idiots real priorities?
Student unions have been nothing more than a way of extorting money out of poor students to further the political ambitions of a bunch of pricks with their snouts in the trough.
We win. na na na!!
Go Johnny Go!!!!!
No, this man returns, a student union was NOT organised like a labour union. Labour unions can sometimes make a necessary and uneful input into the scheme of things, and offer their members real help. Compulsory student unions were simply rackets. I have spoken to students with an aggregate of hundreds of years of university experience. Plenty could recall bad treatment by university administrations or staff. Not one could recall an instance where a student union had helped them.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 12 10 at 06:19 AM • permalinkI think everyone non-leftist who got a tertiary education should be seeking reparations from the ALP for the brazen theft of so many millions of dollars from students to fund their repugnant youth leagues. As for the university sports and other clubs, rural or otherwise, why should my money be stolen from my pocket for facilities that I never used? If people want to play sport they can hire an oval or a gym. That’s what we have to do for our office sporting contets. And as for the allegedly subsidised food and grog, you got better quality facilities at an equal or better price outside the university grounds. I’m frankly amazed the health inspectors never shut down the on-campus Chinese takeaway, it was a bacterial/viral nirvana.
Yes, if there was any doubt, it’s been erased - John Howard really is our greatest PM in living memory. I look forward to many more deals with Family First just to see the evil face of Barnaby Joyce looking like Kerry O’Brien on election night.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2005 12 10 at 06:43 AM • permalink#17 Quentin - Do you have a link to any of the troll’s posts? I’m not familiar with this specimen.
Posted by HisHineness on 2005 12 10 at 07:07 AM • permalinkVSU was introduced here in WA over ten years ago by the Court government and, surprise surprise, the sky didn’t fall in. Student unions didn’t die, but they were forced to tighten their belts and cater for their market to survive. Labor people like Jenny Macklin, by going way over the top on this issue, are demonstrating how far out of touch they really are.
I have read of students deffering studies wiyh the unis blessing because they were elected to a union post.
So it is apparently possible to go for years as a student funded shit stirrer without actualy completing a degree.
Have I been mislead or is that possible??Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2005 12 10 at 09:27 AM • permalinkSusan Norton: Tim was so good as to link to your comment. Now that’s enough. No more of this. I don’t let leftie trolls use that sort of language here, I’m certainly not going to let you use it.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 10 at 10:21 AM • permalinkOT Finally I’m back in. Seems like Andrea has a way of eliminating posts from Vietnam.
Congratulations to John Howard and all Australians for have the most sensible government on the planet
Posted by Jack from Montreal on 2005 12 10 at 12:15 PM • permalinkGood Riddance.
It was one of the most cowardly structures in Australia - not to mention a violation of Freedom of Association.
Let me tell you a story;
I was in the University of Queensland for a number of years - Commerce/Law.
Our fees in the late 90’s were about $130 a semester (I believe it was one of the cheapest in Australia).
Anyway, you had to pay on time or you lost your $20 ‘discount’ (late fee); and thus it become $150.
As I was like many students, i.e. very short on cash & bone lazy, I often lost my ‘discount’.
Anyway, one year they decided to change this policy and get tough on late payers (this policy was introduced by a very left wing student union, filled no doubt with compassion for the poor); and this change was made with no consultation or notice to the students.
Anyway, when I was late that semester, I had come to expect my usual punishment of losing my $20 ‘discount’.
To my horror, when I went to pay, I discovered that the compulsory student ‘union fee’ discount had jumped from $150 ($20 off with ‘discount’) to a staggering $330 (that is right $200 off with ‘discount’).
I had to pay a $200 late fee, on a $130.00 union fee (I was only a few weeks late). I have never seen a more vexatious and oppressive penalty for simply paying late - I doubt even the Tax office could be so cruel.
I then protested like all hell to my elected representatives (with a staggering 3% of the student vote) - they could not grasp anything wrong with what had occurred, indeed as they said, why didn’t I just pay on time (I have could killed the smug and all too obviously 19 year old ex-private school communist) - ‘Would you justify a $20,000 late fee then?’, I pleaded - to which I received a contorted blank face (as only a confused Arts student can give).
I then went to the Student Union Loan section, I was going to get an emergency loan, apparently I could get up too $500 (as according to them they understood the poverty of students in Howard’s Australia). I made an application. I went in and it all looked in order.
When asked what I was going to use the money for. I said, ‘I don’t actually need the full $500 only $330 for late student fees’. I was expecting her to be happy with this statement. I was wrong.
She said, ‘Sorry, we can’t lend money for Student Fees’.
‘Why? Surely, bills are bills, staying in Uni is a little more important than having the phone disconnected’, I said.
‘It’s the new policy’.
‘What is the reason behind the policy?’
Thinking this was a legitimate response, ‘Policy is the Union Policy’, I essentially repeated the question.
‘You see we can’t lend money to ourselves’.
‘Rubbish, you are lending it to me who inturn pays you and I create a debt. It makes no difference who I spend the money on’.
Anyway this conversation went on for quite a while. I eventually realised that this was pointless arguing with this deep thinker (note Student Unions do NOT attract the best brightest of the workforce) and even if she did get what I was saying, she could not change anything anyway.
I actually really did not have $330 on hand (no Austudy etc).
Needless to say my Student Union directed the University to un-enrol me from 6 subjects. They did. I had essentially been kicked out of Uni by these creepy student let’s play ‘politicians’.
I had to eventually, continue attending lectures I was not enrolled in, not sure what to do and what was to happen. I then had to shamefully borrow the funds off a friend’s parent (humiliating).
They then directed the University to again allow my enrolment.
When I went to re-enrol in my 6 subjects, the Uni then wanted a $200 a subject late enrolment fee, from 6 subjects I had previously enrolled in - $1200 – I had gotten back on the Merry Go Round at full speed (eventually I got around that one).
Student Unionism did teach me some valuable things though:
1.The draconian nature of the left;
2.People will wear almost any ridiculous idea/cause to look fashionable;
3.The most indefensible ideas/causes will be defended;
4.The utter apathy of the ordinary person about politics (remember most people let the fanatics in by not voting).P.S. I never once played sport or joined any clubs.
I DID get hungry and eat at the Uni canteen; which was a great ode to communism – half the quality for twice the cost – seriously this subsidised service was more expensive than service stations (how they still made a loss defies economics and baffles great economic minds to this day).
I DID subsidise college drinking and socialist club members (who had 4 – 5 socialist clubs, who all had identical membership – which abuse was in turn able used to subsidise off campus socialist campaigns by paying for their advertising).
#33, wronwright. Ah. Student fees. Now that I understand. However, I see that American universities do it differently, and for actual services rendered, and certainly our student fund is not as vague or as exorbitant the Australian union fee. I congratulate you all on getting rid of it.
Incidentally, I was an employee of the university until I retired, not a student. Well, okay, I was a student too, but only after working hours. I have a Master of Humanities. How’s that for arty?
“Seems like Andrea has a way of eliminating posts from Vietnam.”
Jack from Montreal, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 10 at 03:22 PM • permalinki saw the abc reporting of the vsu and they only showed people opposed to it…....that weird looking academic wearing a bow tie and claiming ‘rednecked philistines’ and the usual assortment of labour pollies and earnest looking scialist students.
you would think that everyone in australia is in favour of compulsory student unionism.
why didn’t the abc also show comments and opinions from students and people happy with this legislation??......this shows clearly the lefty political bias of the abc.
Andrea,
I have been posting here for more than 2 years. First as jlchydro, then as jlc.
I have spent 18 of the last 24 months in VN and, it seems, as soon as I get there I am cut off. The username changes have been made to try to reestablish a connection.
I’m sure that it’s not you doing this, Andrea, but it has been frustrating.
Now that I’m back in Montreal, all is again well
Merry Christmas to all
Posted by Jack from Montreal on 2005 12 10 at 04:20 PM • permalink#68 I made a complaint to the ABC a few months ago about a one-sided report on VSU on the 7.30 Report. The response showed evidence of some industry, but to my charge that they didn’t speak to pro-VSU students like myself, it said `frankly, we covered the range of opinion’. Presumably of people waving `Stop VSU’ banners which may as well have said, `Hey ABC, over here.’ Part of why the ban on any fee—even the WA and Victorian compromise—is good is that ordinary students feel absolutely helpless before the compulsory consensus. Some good may come of student unions when exposed to reality.
On union caf food, I toured the former Soviet bloc shortly after the fall of the Wall and was pleasantly surprised that every railway station slophouse had better and cheaper food than the Melbourne Uni Union caf. A matter of implementation, I suppose.
Nope, Jack, that had nothing to do with me. Unfortunately, I can’t control the quality of internet access people have in different parts of the world. My minions are not, contrary to popular supposition, everywhere.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 12 10 at 04:54 PM • permalinkGreat! Two kids, just completed degrees, paid fees all the way, used little or no sporting facilities - and now they cancel it? Anyway, it’s good to see that those lefty larvae will have to feed their own factional fracas from now on.
What’s all the fuss about anyway? Sporting facilities should be run by and funded by the uni admin and paid for with a simple supplement to the fee structure.
Nobody would believe that the same bunch of idiots who protest any member of the government appearing on campus could actually run anything - all the hard work is done by paid administrators.The left never cease to amaze me with their ideological blindness.
Why is it when the Government allows increases in HECS fees, which students do not have to pay up front (thereby not presenting a hindrance to enrolment and study) and will improve the ability of the university to provide a decent education suddenly the world is about to end and the poor destined only to work in sweatshops, but when the Government reduces the upfront costs of a university education and making it a lot easier for poorer students to survive university they are a bunch of redneck philistines?
I remember when I actually found out the annual budget of the Student Union at the Uni that I attended until recently and I was absolutely flabbergasted at both the enormity of the numbers and the distinct lack of accountability not to mention my absolute amazement at their ability to run at a significant loss.
I know one S.E.Q. Uni Student Union spent a significant percentage of their accrued corpus (amazing in itself that they had one) on funding anti Pauline Hanson rallies.
The Uni I went to would enrol you but you could not get your results (and various other penalties) if your Union fees where not paid, numerous times I witnessed students reduced to tears over this, and surely anything that makes pretty girls cry is a bad thing? Unless it’s me;)
Good riddance
Thanks to Susan Norton for her rigorous analysis of my contributions to this thread. Don’t think I have been so, ummm, whatever by someone’s level of observation since I attended a forum put on by the Young Liberals and the Socialist Workers which began with the ridiculous line, “America is the most evil nation on earth”. At the event I laughed out loud, which was also my response to Susan’s slurs on my intell….that word about being, like d’oh, smart. If I can clarify my position, I have some sympathy for Joyce’s position regarding resources and regional universities, but I have no sympathy for my hard-earned being used to fun extremist politics. Of course, I have just posted about the issue on my blog.
Thanks to those lovely people who stuck up for me. By the way, it wasn’t a Young Liberal who said that about the US.
Posted by Major Anya on 2005 12 10 at 07:09 PM • permalinkMy minions are not, contrary to popular supposition, everywhere.
Andrea, I can put in a word with Our Dark Master about trading wronwright. I mean, it’s a tossup between that and sending him down to Sandusky for AAA league minioning…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 12 10 at 07:17 PM • permalinkGood one, RM!
Of course, Andrea is just being coy.
Posted by Jack from Montreal on 2005 12 10 at 08:00 PM • permalinkI agree that we should be able to say comments without being lambasted. Darlene and Susan for that matter have been good commenters here.
Please note that I do not include Richard McEnroon. For him you can turn the vitriol up to full.
(Sandusky? I’ll give you Sandusky).
Posted by wronwright on 2005 12 10 at 08:02 PM • permalinkFor once I have to question the government, Barnaby seemed pissed off. Yes they got VSU through and I am happy for them but Fielding may not always back the government, he didn’t over Telstra and WorkChoices. If Barnaby becomes more alienated then he already is then the risk of a more rebellious Senate exists, he’s crossed the floor twice already. Having to rely on Fielding is wrong, he is a member of a party that no one really knows much about. Better to keep Barnaby on side with some sweeteners than to rely on
Assemblies of GodFamily First for support.Looks up the bus schedule to Skokie for wronwright…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 12 10 at 08:59 PM • permalinkOf course, Andrea is just being coy.
No, it’s operational security. Lord Karl has ordered plausible deniability.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 12 11 at 12:24 AM • permalink# 81: Any chance of Bryla’s mugshot?
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2005 12 11 at 01:44 AM • permalinkIn the US we don’t call it unionism, but it is almost altogether mandatory nonetheless. I pay mandatory student fees to support the Women’s Center, LGBT Resources center, the Peace Studies department, and a variety of other allegedly scholarly and nonpartisan organizations. It’s a racket, of course. But a racket dear to one’s professors is not a racket to which one is likely to object too publicly.
I am happy that VSU has been allowed. I objected very strongly to my money being spent on pissups and political rallies rather than improving the lot of the students that they are supposed to represent. Being a part-time student the fee was lower, but I still had to pay it. When you work full time and are studying it’s pretty hard to find the time to use up any of the services that are being provided. And I agree about the quality and cost of the food at the Student Union outlets - bleeeccch.
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What a pleasant surprise coming home and turning on the evening news to hear this!
Did you see the look on buffoon Barnaby’s face??? Priceless!