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LANGUAGE USED
A language-based assault repels Iranian would-be kidnappers:
When Iranian Revolutionary Guards captured the British sailors and Royal Marines in March, it was not exactly their first attempt.
It turns out that Iranian forces made an earlier concerted attempt to seize a boarding party from the Royal Australian Navy.
The Australians, though, to quote one military source, “were having none of it”.
The BBC has been told the Australians re-boarded the vessel they had just searched, aimed their machine guns at the approaching Iranians and warned them to back off, using what was said to be “highly colourful language”.
The Iranians withdrew, and the Australians were reportedly lifted off the ship by one of their own helicopters.
The language used is believed to have been unmoderated. Media Watch is investigating.
In light of this dreadful humiliation at the hands of sheep fiddlers and kangaroo diddlers, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard have been outfitted with this powerful armament:
“I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you”.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 06 22 at 12:52 AM • permalinkDamn, they’re on to our latest Aussie invention. Behold the devastating effects of the “Colourful language generator”(TM).
I think it has been developed as a joint venture between Metal Storm and some Canadian mob called the Professional Armaments Corp Ontario.
If this story is in fact true, and I have no real reason to doubt it, it is interesting on many levels. First, the fact that the Iranians must have been looking to create an incident for some time. Second, it makes you proud to be an Australian, third it makes you wonder why the UK team folded so meekly and fourth, why the hell didn’t someone make the Iranians stop doing it?
There is also evident a problem in our government not wanting to share examples of how good our Australian forces are. This sort of thing is good for morale and undercuts to lefties at home. There must be lots of stories but we don’t get to hear them. My nephew is in the SAS somewhere in the middle east and we, his family aren’t even allowed to know where. This seems overly officious.
Listen Akmed,what are they saying…..
(all turn ears to the wind to pick up a loud hailer)
Attention Iranians,this is the RAN,we are an equal employer,this patrol is commanded by a female officer,we enjoy a beer,we belive in free speach,we will not grovel to your demands,in our country we have a seperation of church and state,our female officer has ordered us to fire in the direction of you genitals if you come any closer.
These people are the spawn of the devil Akmed..BACK…BACK TO BASE I TELL YOU…
I suspect some Iranian women took a beating that night.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 01:23 AM • permalinkIt’s Dillinger Downunda!
You get more with a colorful word and a few mateys with submachine guns than you get with a colorful word…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2007 06 22 at 01:23 AM • permalinkHeaven help us that our defence force personnel are in the naughty chair for using bad words.
oooommmm aaaaaahhh!
#8 Allan,
There must be lots of stories but we don’t get to hear them. My nephew is in the SAS somewhere in the middle east and we, his family aren’t even allowed to know where. This seems overly officious.
I do hope you are joking.
I’m reminded of a WWII story I saved (original source unknown):
An Australian tank was crippled by heavy German fire and the German field commander in excellent English called on the crew to surrender saying: “Australian, you have fought bravely but you are defeated. Give yourselves up and you will be treated well. What do you say”
There was a moment’s silence and then an Australian voice was heard yelling from inside the tank: “well, youse can go get fucked for a start.”
It took several minutes to source a translation of the vernacular before the Germans fired.
#8 well, if he’s doing covert operations in Iran or Syria (or even near the border of these countries), I can understand them not wanting you to know…
Posted by daddy dave on 2007 06 22 at 01:44 AM • permalink#16
Heaven help us that our defence force personnel are in the naughty chair for using bad words.
You’re quite right. I remember when a US Marine was facing a huge backlash (possibly court martial?) as the treasonous American media was attacking the military for “insensitivity” after he sang a hilarious song about Hadji Girl.
God forbid soldiers should blow off some steam.
It’s no different in Australia, where ADFA recruits serving their country, are forbidden from doing anything involving alcohol, sex or pranks, which ordinary University students serving only themself, would be absolutely expected to do.
#16 - Kae - while it may seem overly officous and insensitive to loved ones, the SOP for SASR is to give away nothing. They despise publicity. The Aura of mystery is a very important part of their tool box. The places they go and the things thy get up to often are best left undisclosed because it would divulge important information on their roles, capabilities, methods, identities etc.
Some may think it the stuff of fiction but for partners of SASR operators the 3 am call and the loved one disapearing for a month or more and then coming home and saying nothing about where they’ve been is part of life.
I wasn’t in the SASR but know a few chaps Very occaisonally I have been watching the SBS news and seen a face in a crowd and realised that somebody won’t be very happy about that and personally suprised at where they are.
Allan. Your relative is currently staging from the Tarin Kowt area in Oruzgan Province, Afghanistan. Right now he’s probably on patrol about 15 km’s to the north in an opium filled valley, looking for Taliban to shoot at.
He’d be enjoying the experience too. The last time they were in Afghani territory, SF elements were stunned at the willingness of people to kill themselves at the end of their weapons. The term ‘turkey shoot’ have been used to describe some aspects of their last deployment, although you won’t see that in any official debriefing document.
The term ‘turkey slap’ OTOH can be used to describe the pussers actions re: Iranian dinghy operators.‘They reacted, I’m told, incredibly quickly, whereas the Brits were caught at their most vulnerable moments, climbing down off the ship and into their boats,’ the BBC’s Frank Gardner reported. ‘The point of this story is not that the Aussies were fantastically brave and the Brits were a bunch of cowards - although I’m sure some people will interpret it (that way).’
Not questioning the bravery of the bootnecks, just their competence.
It’s about bloody time that something like this happened and it says a lot both about our courageous troops and the maniacal Iranians.
If all it takes to scare them is ‘fuck off’ then I am happy. I am very proud of the Australian troops - they always do a splendid job wherever they are in the world and everyone should be thankful for their efforts.
Also, they should fucken swear. After all, this is an army, not a fucking dinner table party. If MediaWatch or other stupid self-hating precious lefties are offended then they can go fuck themselves. They don’t seem to mind yelling expletives towards our national leaders at all the marches they attend.
All of the US, British and Australian soldiers should be educated in Patton-style vocabulary and colourful images - this can inspire troops very much and it will certainly be good to adopt the same in schools across the nation.
Posted by The Best Infidel on 2007 06 22 at 02:05 AM • permalinkAt least they stopped at colorful language - had they broken out the rude gestures, there’s no telling how terribly the poor Iranians’ feelings would have been bruised.
Posted by Blue State Sil on 2007 06 22 at 02:32 AM • permalinkGary Kimberly,RAAF Caribou Pilot,35 Squadron
South Vietnam,1965-1966This tale is funny, sad and yet not so sad. I guess it depends on your sence of humour, but it sure was funny the way my loadmaster described it. I’m not sure now whether it was Luong Son or Ban Tri, but we had to air drop a live cow in a crate to this particular camp. Anyway we arrived over the drop zone in our Caribou and i made my run in, At the appropiate moment i ordered Execute, Execute and the loadmaster let go the load. Out went the crate and the loadmaster reported that the parachute worked perfectly. The only trouble was, this particular crate must have been badly put together for although the crate came down buy parachute, the floor kept going with the cow still standing on it, According to the loadmaster it was the funniest thing he had ever seen. there was the cow standing on a small woodern floor like a surfboard, hurtling through the air with its nostrils flared, ears flapping in the wind and its tail streaming out behind it. He claims the cow actually enjoyed it and swears he could see it grinning.
The sad part of course is that the cow would have hit the ground and been killed, But it is perhaps not so sad because the cow was going to be slaughtered for beef anyway. At least it died happy, the South Vietnamese got their steaks. Nevertheless, you may be assured that this type of incident did not happen again.There has been some discussion as to whether this incident happened. I spent a little time in the Puss, and still have a few or three younger mates still in…. believe me it did happen.
Apropos #32, I understand rude gestures were, in fact, involved. Personnel have been counselled, and appropriately decorated already.Cheers
RodCI have often thought that if all the world’s diplomats were Australian, we would all be so much better off. For a start there wouldn’t be so much confusion between spades and fucking shovels.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 06 22 at 03:19 AM • permalinkFucken hilarious story, sparrow. I loved it!
I must have missed something, but I presume a “Pusser” is slang for Aussie naval personnel. Derivation, please.
Posted by eagle bomber on 2007 06 22 at 03:32 AM • permalink#33 - They never ate steak so tender again.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 06 22 at 03:43 AM • permalinkAl Pinches,Canberra Bomber Navigator,Vietnam 1970-1971
After we bombed a target, the forward air controller(FAC) would fly in to have a close look at what the results were and give a bomb damage assessment(BDA) 2 Squadron RAAF had the highest BDA in Vietnam. John Bennett was bombing for a Vietnamese FAC in the delta country and the target was bunkers along the side of what John described as the widest canal in Vietnam. Anyhow he missed the bunkers and the whole stick landed in the middle of the canal. There was a pause and the Vietnamese FAC came up on the radio ” Ah Magpie, Ah you kill many VC fish”.
I heard a story about a squadron from Richmond who were used to deploy some feed in a flood emergency about 30 or so years ago.
The farmer went up with the plane and told the loady where to drop the bales of feed.
In one particular paddock there were three beasts and he said “Put one in there, that’s my prize bull, we’ll have to look after him.”
The loady got it right on target.
Ground steak.There was also this incident between US/Iraqi border patrol and Iranian intruders
Showdown on Iraq/Iran borderTalking of Bovine bombings - I believe that this is a true story - The Russians rescued the crew from a sunken Japanese fishing boat who claimed that their boat had been sunk by a cow. They were held for some time on suspicion of spying. They were eventually released when the Russians discovered it was true. Apparently a Ruskie transport plane crew had been cattle duffing on an island and flying cattle back to their base. Apparently on one run, one of the cows started to kick up a stink. The crew was concerned that the aircraft would be damaged so put down the ramp and the cow exited aircraft mid-air. The poor sodding Japs were on the end of the bovine flight path.
Downrange, I worked with a reserve USAF officer, an Iranian whose family immigrated to the US when he was a boy. Great guy, smart as a whip with a decent sense of humor. He still goes back to Tehran once every year or so to visit family. The stories he’d tell us about the real Iranian military and about the technical capabilities of your average Iranian were simply hilarious. Leave it to say that Iran won’t be too much of a bother when the time arrives to kick their squawking yaps shut.
#41 IT
For a start there wouldn’t be so much confusion between spades and fucking shovels.
Am I missing some subtle humour here? They’re the same thing. A spade is for digging and a shovel has a broader blade for shoveling.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 04:39 AM • permalink#63 Fucking PIMF and all that. They’re not the same thing.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 04:44 AM • permalink#62 - Well, the subtlest thing about me is the diamante studded, pink, lurex tuxedo I wear to funerals, so it is possible that something has been lost in transaltion.
I was making jest of the plain speaking term - “He calls a spade a spade.” Actually, sir, he calls a spade “a fucking shovel”. It’s an old joke which I have right royally mangled.
Not to worry, in 15 minutes I’ll be up to my gizzards in amber nectar.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 06 22 at 04:49 AM • permalinkRe Pusser -pertaining to or part of the Navy
Derived from the Purser (Pusser) -the ship’s officer who provided stuff, and hence appeared to own everything, including the Royal Navy itself…. hence “pussers”.
Certainly not an Oz term by origin, but widely used nonetheless. In my experience, more so by the RAN than the RN itself, from whom many of our traditions derive.
A common inhouse nickname for the RN is the ‘andrew’ which I always felt was their most common vernacular.The term “andrew” was never , and is not, used within the RAN, in my long experience.
One learns a lot of very obscure info in a long time at sea.
Cheers
RodC#66 OK, haven’t heard that one. The only joke I know about spades:
“We’ll need a spade for this job.”
“You racist bastard!”
I’ll get my coat…Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 04:57 AM • permalink#65, 69. I know where you’re coming from, but on this most serious topic, I’d like to point out that shovels can have flat blades, just as spades do, or pointed blades, depending on the application. A pointed blade is great for material like coal or gravel, however it’s not so useful for sand or dirt on a flat surface. Anyway, have to stop - I’ve exceeded my daily pedantry allowance.
#69 No matter how enemy bodies are disposed of, someone, somewhere on the left will complain.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 05:25 AM • permalinkRegarding the HMS Cornwall incident from March of this year…
The mainstream media and even the blogosphere has bought this hook, line and sinker.
But there are two colossal problems.
A) The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree their bilateral boundary, and they never have done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too. This published boundary is a fake with no legal force.
B) Accepting the British coordinates for the position of both HMS Cornwall and the incident, both were closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land. Go on, print out the map and measure it. Which underlines the point that the British produced border is not a reliable one.
#72 Hello Huckabee. Still having trouble with that nasty link function?
The border is in fact a legal internationally recognized boundary, just not by Iran. The same Iran who does not recognize UN mandates nor any other international tribunal decisions? The fact that Iran refuses to recognize this boundary, in no way negates its legality.
If you’re going to play the role of Iranian defense council, you’re going to need to rethink your game.Almost no time to post, need to rush off.
#72 If the Iran/Iraq maritime boundary is invalid I wonder why Iran gave a new position on the Iran side for the incident after the Brits informed them that their original position was on the Iraq side.
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 05:44 AM • permalink#73 egg_ I’ll look into it. I’m willing to be corrected, lest I dig my own grave arf arf
Oh fuck I’m late
Posted by flying pigs over mecca on 2007 06 22 at 05:45 AM • permalinkHuckabee,
I see you cut and pasted your points straight from the eccentric former ambassador Craig Murray
You really ought to give credit, or people migh tsuspect you of thinking for yourself.
#87. If Nancy Pelosi is of the Left then Fox News is ‘Fair and Balanced’! Especially not after having been elected on the basis of opposition to the war, only to have voted for $100 Billion to keep prosecuting the carnage, which by the way has claimed the lives of 14 US troops over a 48 hour period this week.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that Pelosi is consorting with the Syrians. How that amounts to support I’m not so sure.
The Bush and co. support for the tyrannical regimes of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, well now that is an interesting question…
Texas Bob, his linking woes would have never happened if someone had given instructions like:
Please use the “Links” button to insert links to other websites.
Click on the button.
All you have to do is fill in the boxes that will pop up, the first box with the url, and the second box with the word you wish to use as the link.
This is really sad. I must apologize for getting him started again, I just couldn’t resist. I imagined his hands trembling with delight after he’d read #87. He just seemed so down after his plagiarizing scandal hit the press. Thought he needed a little pick-me up.
I am not proud of my petty antagonizing
#61
The urban myth may have grown from IIRC a Russian (light comedy) movie about that time that featured one of the crew of a military transport plane who smuggled a cow, that he’d become emotionally attached to, onboard against the CO’s wishes: can’t recall if anything unfortunate happened to the cow or the title of the movie.Anyone have a better recollection?
#99.
That is, if you’re talking about the ones responsible for the actual killings in Iraq.
Oh TB! You really need to keep up with your guvmint’s propaganda bureau…its Al Qaeda man!
The Shia fundamentalist government of Iran is funding the rabidly anti-Shia, Takfiri terrorist of AQ…As for killings,heh, even if Iran were funding their Sunni enemies, they really would have to have worked miracles to kill more the the Coalition of Evil.
#104. egg_, and I mean this in the most gentle and honest way, if you’ve the time to watch old Russian movies from IIRC AND still have to comment here, you’ve got way too much time on your hands. Ever think about becoming an American? The US Army* recruits strapping young furriengers, such as yourself, for service with Uncle Sugar AND as a quick-step towards citizenship. Just think, you’ll being running with America’s best, earning college money and learning a whole new National Anthem!
*Recruiting comments not endorsed by the US DoD, and may have nothing to do with any so-called recruitment bonus Texas Bob may or may not be seeking
#106 Would it help you if I typed slower? Used simpler words? Or perhaps drew you some cartoons?
Take a few deep breaths (of AIR this time), relax a moment, and actually think about what you type BEFORE you type it. Even consider READING what you type BEFORE you hit that little button, lower left corner marked Submit. I’m still holding on to the hope that your reasoning is clouded by emotion, and that you’re typing these things from a distraught state. I hold the others at bay while you regain your senses. You can do it! I’m here for ya buddy!
#106 Oh yes, and to help you with your search for corroborating evidence, here’s a source for your death figures:
Link Thingy That Gives Poor Hucky The FitsGive a shout if you need furhter help.
#106:
… would have to have worked miracles to kill more the the Coalition of Evil.
WTF!!! So who the hell are the good guys then, Huckabee?
Oh, I get it. Dar al-Islam – those nations and peoples under submission to Islamic law are the good guys. Dar al-Harb – all those not yet under the control of Islam and therefore nominally at war with the Islamo-fascists are, of course, the Evil Infidels.
Is that a fuse wire sticking out of your sandshoe there, mate?
he British government was advised against publicly criticising a report estimating that 655,000 Iraqis had died due to the war, the BBC has learnt.
Iraqi Health Ministry figures put the toll at less than 10% of the total in the survey, published in the Lancet.
But the Ministry of Defence’s chief scientific adviser said the survey’s methods were “close to best practice” and the study design was “robust”.
Another expert agreed the method was “tried and tested”.
Was that the lancet story TB?
#119 When did George Washington blow up fellow Americans?
And the Iraqis are working with the US to rid….
OH! You meant THOSE Iraqis. I see. The ones valiantly blowing up fellow Iraqi men, women and children to gloriously push the infidel coalition from its borders.
Seems like a bad idea.
But it’s working.
You and your’s are the target audience Huck, and you’re doing their bidding like a good little sheep.#123 I’ve tried to stop. I just CAN’T!
Like a dog returns to its vomit, there go I.It’s like crack. Only with words. And no pipe. And without the funky house.
OK, so it’s not exactly like crack, but you get the idea.
I just can’t help watching this bozo keep coming back for more. He’s like some crazed lab rat that won’t stop pushing the shock buzzer with its nose. It’s mesmerizing in a train wreck-y sort of way.
Dose the deliberate blowing up of women and kids in markets part of the heroic liberation, Huckhead,
I’m sorry but the stupid 1400 year old argument over who should have taken over Mohummads cult that is killing the majority of Iraqis..I don’t understand how that is part off the Heroic struggle.
Look if you just say what you really think and that is you hate America i would say “no worries, thats you opinion” but don’t hide behind this poor occupied Iraqis line.
#119: Suckerbee, my question was rhetorical. I answered it for you in the very next sentence.
The Iraqi people are not fighting a foreign occupation, unless you are talking about the small but vicious band of al-Qaeda foreigners loosely allied to a waning Sunni insurgency - hardly an “occupation”. Or perhaps you refer to the malevolent influence of your friends, the Iranians? All those groups are working to destabilize the legitimate Iraqi government and to cower those nations willing to support the Iraqi people in their quest to establish a free and independent Iraq.
I know I am late to the party, but I just had to add my own cheers. I love the Aussie troops!
Posted by Momma Fish on 2007 06 22 at 11:04 AM • permalinkWeakness=defeat.
Reminds me of the story about the US Embassy takeover in Iran. Seems the “students” attacked the Russian embassy first, but the soldiers there were no instructed in the kindler, gentler methods of repelling invaders and thus shot them in the face, killing them instantly, as they scaled the wall.
The remaining “students” immediately went for Plan B, attacking the US embassy. The rest is history.
Did you get her that Jaguar you promised her? (You know, when she was six months old, playing in the crib, and you thought she wasn’t paying attention?)
I can see I’m going to have to keep checking over my shoulder for you when I’m talking to Packypus Paco.
I really need to know the answer to the question I asked you on the other thread though Paco.
You can’t get good staff these days, can you Paco? Here is the question:
Packypus is very cool Paco.
But shouldn’t I be fearful that I’ll never be able to make her clean her room, in case a bunch of Greenpeace or PETA representatives turn up and protest the ruination of the habitat of the extremely rare Packypus?
Yesterday it was Nazi ad hominems, today it’s 3-year-old Fisk/Pilger/Mikey Moore talking points. Damn, Huck’s a real winner.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2007 06 22 at 12:06 PM • permalink#163: “You can’t get good staff these days, can you Paco?”
Looks in direction of MarkL, presently trying to disentangle his legs from an inept yo-yo exhibition, and Andy Canuck, snoozing peacefully under the newspaper
No, Ash. No, you can’t.
As to your original question: you need to install a trap door on the front stoop so that, once they’ve identified themselves as PETA reps, you simply push a button and they drop into a cellar, where they are sucked up into a vaccuum tube, whisked away, and dumped into the exercise yard of the nearest pit bull breeder. That way, they’ll never get close enough for an inspection.
Paco
Minor design quibble: not a pit bull breeder exercise yard, rather a porcine production facility. Less cleanup required after pest disposal.Cheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2007 06 22 at 02:14 PM • permalinkPit Bulls were America’s dog in WWI, like the Bulldog was for the British. The traditional American Pit Bulls guarded the neighborhood without any class pretensions, against strangers committing funny business. HSUS used them for a fundraising crisis in the 80s and suddenly they were the enemy, at least on TV and the papers.
Most of the Pit Bulls I meet these days are Dalmation mixes, at least according to the odd owner you find taking them for a walk. Someday they’ll get their good name back from the news yahoos. I think they’re still used as therapy dogs because of their stable temperament and strength, by the way.
A nice and lengthy discussion of the whole narrative is in Vicki Hearne’s _Bandit : Dossier of a Dangerous Dog._ I’ve snipped a lot out of the book over the years, for instance this on searching for these dangerous dogs described in the newspapers in person
Let’s hope the Brits paid attention and learned something from that. Hats off to you!
Posted by rightwingprof on 2007 06 22 at 03:57 PM • permalinkWow! I just had one of those crazy deja vu moments… wasn’t there some sponge-brain using a Cuban revolutionary as a nic some months ago trying the same argument?
Was that the same guy who seemed to believe that the Gaza Strip is in Iraq or something like that? Who was that guy, anyway? I can’t come up with his handle…I don’t think it was Leftie Latte Lover, or was it?
BTW, Hucksterbee’s claim that Nancy Pelosi isn’t a lefty was pretty hilarious. If so, that must mean the “real” lefties can’t be a terribly smart bunch since they keep voting for her in large numbers.
At any rate, I wonder if that means all those folks at the Daily Kos aren’t on the Left either, given that Nancy Pelosi was a well-received contributor there prior to the mid-terms elections.
I guess Hucksterbee’s definition of “the Left” is similarly…unconventional as Lataan’s definition of “racism”.
#6 Damn, Paco, why did you let that photo out of your Montreal operation? Now the gig is up. It will always be now known as Pan American Canadian Organsiation.
This kind of notoriety is just so un-Canadian.
Posted by Wimpy Canadian on 2007 06 22 at 07:38 PM • permalink#120.
According to historian Harry Ward, the Revolutionary War was also a vicious civil war, in which partisans on both sides brutalized those on the opposing side. “Wide sections of territory,” he asserts, “became virtual wastelands as a result of the military appropriation of livestock and provisions, the looting and destruction of homes, and the flight of civilians.”[3] Soldiers as well as non-military profiteers not only looted but also murdered and sometimes tortured their victims.
Ward, H. M. (2002). Between the Lines: Banditti of the American Revolution. Westport, CT: Praeger,
#131. Coalition
forces remained the target of the majority of attacks (68%),...
“unless you are talking about the small but vicious band of al-Qaeda foreigners loosely allied to a waning Sunni insurgency”
So Al Qaeda foreigners are a small band and yet they compose the bulk of a resistance that is estimated by the director of the intelligence services built by the occupiers, General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwani, to number 40,000 hardcore fighters and 160,000 ‘part-timers’?
“All those groups are working to destabilize the legitimate Iraqi government”
No, all these groups; The General Command of the Armed Forces, Resistance and Liberation in Iraq (mostly former Ba’athists); Popular Resistance for the Liberation of Iraq (secular Sunni outfit); Iraqi Resistance and Liberation Command (secular nationalist, anti-Ba’ath); Al ‘Awdah (former security personnel of the Ba’ath); Harakat Ra’s al-‘Afa (Ba’athist, linked to tribes in Ramadi and Fallujah); Nasserites, (a small bunch of non-Ba’ath pan-Arab nationalists); Thuwwar al-‘Aral-Kata’ib al-Anbar al-Musallahuh (anti-Saddam nationalists); General Secretariat for the Liberation of Democratic Iraq (leftist nationslists); Higher Command of the Mujahideen in Iraq (both religious and nationalist); Munazzamat al-Rayat al-Aswad (religious nationalist); Unification Front for the Liberation of Iraq (anti-Saddam and anti-Baath); National Front for the Liberation of Iraq (incorporates both former Republican Guards and Islamists); Jaish Ansar al-Sunnah (one of the largest groups in Iraq, incorporating both Kurdish and Sunni Arab Islamists); Mujahideen al ta’ifa al-Mansoura (Salafist, includes non-Iraqis); Kata’ib al Mujahideen fi al-Jama’ah al-Salafiyah fi al-‘Arak (Salafists, with some connections to former Afghan groups); Jihad Brigades/Cells (Islamist guerillas); Armed Islamic Movement of the Al Qaeda Organization, Fallujah Branch (a little known group with some amount of support in the city); Jaish Muhammad (apparently one of the largest Islamist groups); Islamic Army of Iraq (Salafist); Jaish al Mahdi (you know these guys already, and they do sometimes operate in the north where there are Shi’ites living), are fighting to overthrow an
illegitimate government put in place by an illegal occupation.181. “illegitimate government put in place”
Correction. ‘illegitimate Govt’ that was voted in by its own people in a well run voting process…
“by an illegal occupation. “Correction. there at the behest of the Govt of the country that was installed at the behest of the voters…
Any further questions?
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2007 06 22 at 11:57 PM • permalinkHey, if I gin up a couple of dozen names for groups does that mean there’s a few thousand of me? Huckleberry will believe just about anything, won’t she/he/it? Well, sheeeeeiiitttt. I see it also dragged up that idiot Lancet (non-peer reviewed) guesstimate of killed Iraqis. Really, paco should be selling tons of stuff to someone so easily duped. (Not that PACO, INC would dupe anyone, of course.)
Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2007 06 23 at 12:05 AM • permalink#182.
Correction. ‘illegitimate Govt’ that was voted in by its own people in a well run voting process…
You mean the voting process that was distinguished by allegations of ballot fixing , the ‘irregularities’ and the exclusion of thousands of voters? The voting process that saw a situation where,
“I mean, we’ve got a situation in Mosul, for example, where American troops, we now discover because the Iraqi employees of the election organization have deserted en masse, it’s American soldiers who will be transporting the ballot boxes around when they are full of votes. This is really very far from ideal, and if it were happening in any other country—I mean, one could mention Ukraine, for example—there would be a wild chorus of international protest.”
And where even the interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi ” admitted on Tuesday that “pockets” of Iraq won’t be able to vote on January 30 because of poor security. I suspect the pockets amount to about 3 million persons.”
However those are mostly secondary points. The main one is that the government that issued from the elections is illegitimate, because the whole process was the result of an illegal invasion and occupation.
Huckabee: You seem to know all the players.
Please tell us why these particular Muslims are quite happy exterminating other Muslims. Is it to propogate an environment of blame against the Coalition of the Swilling, or just because the blower-upper Muslims like violence, killing, and blowing stuff up.
Iraq is the corner-stone in the eventual stake in the heart of radical Islam. Your insane mission has failed. Now fuck off! (using some colourful vernacular)
What makes a government legitimate? The democratic election of that government by the people it rules, which is how the present government of Iraq came to rule? Not according to Huck. Since the alternative is rule by force by a dictatorship, either a secular one ike the bloodyhanded Ba’athists, or a religious one like the bloodyhanded Al-Qaedists, one presumes that seizure of power by force is what Huck considers gives legitimacy to a government.
America is trying to foster halfway decent, consensual government in Iraq in the hopes of providing an alternative to the choice between bloodyhanded secular tyrants and bloodyhanded religious tyrants. This attempt is what Huck considers evil.
On the Lancet article, not even antiwar outfits like Iraq Body Count bought such a high figure, ten times what they had counted or more. The Lancet figure has the problem that nowhere near that number of bodies have ever been seen in Iraq, not since Saddam was overthrown anyway. That number is closer to his work than even the indiscriminate murdering of Al Qaeda, the Ba’athist “freedom fighters” Huck so admires, or the Shi’a militias. It’s pure fiction.
In the Revolutionary War the closest thing to today’s terror attacks came from the Indian raids incited by the British. The 1777 Campaign in New York is instructive on this matter.
On Nancy Pelosi’s leftism, she has been a great admirer of Harry Bridges, the Aussie union boss of the ILWU, who was a lifelong Communist and was a member of the Central Committee of the CPUSA, at Moscow’s orders. He toed the Moscow line his whole life, including defending the treaty between Hitler and Stalin that set off WWII. Of course, when Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back before Stalin could do it to him, Bridges turned his opinion on a dime and became a rabid advocate of intervention in WWII, which he and his union had opposed up until then on Moscow’s orders. Nancy still thinks he’s the greatest thing to grace the Labor Movement in all its history.
Pelosi’s favorite StalinistYes Pelosi’s a leftist. She loves Commies, advocates socialism at home, advocates the defeat of America in the war against the Jihadi terrorists, and plays footsie with the enemies of America abroad. Yep, a classical lefty.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2007 06 23 at 01:06 AM • permalink“Hey, if I gin up a couple of dozen names for groups does that mean there’s a few thousand of me? Huckleberry will believe just about anything, won’t she/he/it? Well, sheeeeeiiitttt”
Actually, I find its the RWDBloggers who believe just about anything, as long as it comes from the White House, Pentagon or Fux News.
I mean, 40,000 hardcore insurgents and 160,000 ‘part timers’ would seem to indicate groups other than Al Qaeda at work (like for instance Muqtada Al-Sadr’s organisation!, especially given that in mid-2004, Brigadier General Custer (oh yes), director of intelligence for CENTCOM, said that there was little evidence of ‘Al Qaeda’ operating in Iraq.
As for the Lancet survey, well you obviously forgot to read your cue cards,...
“The British government was advised against publicly criticising a report estimating that 655,000 Iraqis had died due to the war, the BBC has learnt.
Iraqi Health Ministry figures put the toll at less than 10% of the total in the survey, published in the Lancet.
But the Ministry of Defence’s chief scientific adviser said the survey’s methods were “close to best practice” and the study design was “robust”.
Another expert agreed the method was “tried and tested”.”
181 Huckabee
What those groups have in common is one thing. None of them can muster enough votes at the ballot box in order to get what they want.
They are the screaming 2 year olds in a room full of adults conducting serious business.
What possible solution do you see happening if the Eeeevil occuping forces were to leave now?
The different parties will send each other flowers?Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 06 23 at 01:11 AM • permalinkPlease tell us why these particular Muslims are quite happy exterminating other Muslims.
Coalition forces remained the target of the majority of attacks (68%),...
I don’t think mose Iraqi resistance groups enjoy killing their fellow Iraqi’s, these guys however seem to get a real buzz out of it…
“The men of the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment’s Alpha and Charlie companies are resting and playing cards in the shade of a staircase, and talk turns to killing.
“I enjoy killing Iraqis,” says Staff Sgt. William Deaton, 30, who had killed a hostile fighter the night before.”
Iraq is the corner-stone in the eventual stake in the heart of radical Islam. Your insane mission has failed.
Actually, the US led invasion of Iraq has provided Islamisist terrorists with a nation-wide recruiting and training ground. Well done! Mission Accomplished, even?
Huckabee, At what stage was iraq ever a functioning civil society? Seriously answer that question?
Should a nation be held hostage to a dictatorship (and not a plesant one at that) because it wont instantly become a fully functioning democracy afterwards?
How then is ANY thuggish regime to be overturned? Or is it perfectly acceptable for you that “brown” people live in terror of their dictators as long as we get oil cheap from them?
As long as its only brown people eh mate??
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 06 23 at 01:35 AM • permalink#186. “...one presumes that seizure of power by force is what Huck considers gives legitimacy to a government.”
No, that is what you consider gives legitimacy to a government, as that is exactly what the US did when it invaded Iraq.
“America is trying to foster halfway decent, consensual government in Iraq in the hopes of providing an alternative to the choice between bloodyhanded secular tyrants and bloodyhanded religious tyrants. This attempt is what Huck considers evil.”
I wouldn’t think it evil if it were at all true.
The Lancet survey: “It’s pure fiction.”
Not according to the Ministry of Defence’s chief scientific adviser.
Pelosi:
“...advocates socialism at home, advocates the defeat of America in the war against the Jihadi terrorists,...”.
Could you give me an example of Pelosi advocating socialism at home? Could you also tell me how she advocates the defeat or America in the war against the people of Iraq by voting to fund it with another $100 Billion?
# 188.
“What possible solution do you see happening if the Eeeevil occuping forces were to leave now? The different parties will send each other flowers?”
Luckily that’s not something I’ll be responsible for, having opposed the invasion in the first place. I could speculate though, I’d say that given the majority of armed attacks are aimed at Coalition forces and that a majority of Iraqi’s want the US and co to leave, then a dramatic decline in violent death would be one likely result.
#192 Yet again you get your issues confused Huck. The US never selected the Iraq Government, they were elected by the people. You seem to consider a government to be legitimate if they’re prepared to use force. Shit, no wonder you guys on the Left seem to think the Howard Government is evil, they don’t drag people away like you dream of.
Iraq is currently torn between religious tyrants and secular tyrants, and none of them are afraid to kill people to achieve their aims. That is what America is trying to avoid.
The Lancet survey was greatly flawed in its methodology. I know this, because I used their methods to find out whether all the cats in Australia are starving. I asked my three cats if they were hungry, they all seemed to say yes, and so every cat in Australia is starving. Please send aid.
#195 So you don’t think that even though you live in a country that is part of the Coalition of the Willing, that all citizens of that country have a responsibility to make sure that [stealing Lefty line] the nasty occupiers fix what they broke? [/stealing Lefty line]
The majority of attacks are aimed at civilians, not at armed forces. Got any proof that the majority of Iraqis want the Coalition of the Willing to leave? And if you think the Coalition leaving would result in a dramatic decline in violent death, you’re more deluded than I thought.
#190.
How then is ANY thuggish regime to be overturned?
Remember the Berlin wall and what followed in Eastern Europe?
Or is it perfectly acceptable for you that “brown” people live in terror of their dictators as long as we get oil cheap from them?
Not to me, but I think it is to the US and their friends in Saudi Arabia etc.
Yep, brown people mole…Yep
Huckabee
“Remember the Berlin wall and what followed in Eastern Europe?”Yes I do, and to compare the 2 is farcical in the extreme. The wall wqas brought down because a nation wanted to be re-united and could see a happy, secular, democracy just over the wall. They saw they were living oppressed, squallid and unfree and took action. That re-united a society, which flawed by Hitlers rule, was still a state of laws and a functioning civil service.
Iraq hasnt had a functioning government beyond dictatorship since the Poms left. There has been no rule of law beyond patronage and corruption. They look over their border and they see a theocracy or other failed or failing states.
What reasons do you give for the invasion of Iraq that couldnt have been achieved by the US normalising relations with Saddams regime, and resuming trade with him?
Your little photo montage is a fairly silly one to spring here, YOUR “minutemen” turned an urban centre into an armed base from which to launch attacks. Surely your not advocating using civillians as a shield is now a legitimate tactic?
BTW there tends to be a fairly big difference between what is a benevolent dictatorship (unjust and offensive as it is) and a dictatorship which rules by terror such as Saddams.
I would love to see the middle east become a functioning, rule of law society rather than a collection of unrepresentative regimes. How would you make it happen Huck? How would you overthrow the house of Saud and put in place a benevolent, rule of law government without causing unrest?
Or should it never be tried?Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 06 23 at 03:01 AM • permalink“However those are mostly secondary points. The main one is that the government that issued from the elections is illegitimate, because the whole process was the result of an illegal invasion and occupation.”
Wouldn’t that ‘logic’ make almost every vote in Europe since the end of WW2 invalid?
After all many of those countries came to terms with or surenderred to the Germans.
As noted above, your ‘logic’ doesn’t hold up you can make an arse of yourself as much as you like on the subject, but the facts are established, the Iraqi people voted on the subject. its over.
Whine like a puppy, the grown ups have moved on.
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2007 06 23 at 03:39 AM • permalink#204: Frollickingmole, Huck would overthrow the house of Saud by strength of a terrorism-led radicalized uprising and then install a Caliphate under Sharia Law.
From my reading of Huckabee’s posts we are hearing the voice of not merely a sympathizer or an apologist for terrorists, but an unashamed and ambitious Islamist.
splice
About my reading of him as well, just wanted to see if hed come out and state as much. Bit of a tool though and I was getting a bit bored with him.
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 06 23 at 04:08 AM • permalinknot merely a sympathizer or an apologist for terrorists, but an unashamed and ambitious Islamist
I disagree. I think Huck just a useless idiot who confuses being contrarian with intelligence. I’d call him a troll but he isn’t very good at it - remember when Huck said:
like I said a useless idiot.
Posted by Col. Milquetoast on 2007 06 23 at 04:36 AM • permalinkSpeaking of useful idiots.
“The voice of Princess Fiona in the animated Shrek films may have inadvertently offended Peruvians who suffered decades of violence from a Maoist guerilla insurgency by touring the country with a bag emblazoned with one of Mao Zedong’s favourite political slogans.”
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2007 06 23 at 05:46 AM • permalinkI realize I’m probably just slow on the clue catch but, for the life of me, I just can not feature how folk still believe there is any value in attempting to debate with someone who has no attachment to either a common reality or to any functional form of integrity or honor.
Once someone makes the decision to allow themselves to step over the line and take up the cause of the enemy during a war, what possible value could there be in even attempting to discuss issues?
Huckster’s many, many formatting mistakes fixed—at least the ones that were messing up the page. If you can’t figure out how to use the formatting code properly, then don’t use it.
I can’t do anything about his boring fixation on the same tired arguments we’ve heard from ten thousand other trolls. You may as well give up now, Huckie: you’re not convincing anyone of anything but your own idiocy.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 06 23 at 06:55 AM • permalinkI think our friend Huckabee is a cyber jihadi, waging war with a tool (computer) he’s not all that familiar with. It’s an approved al-Qaeda tactic (although I don’t think Huck has risen to those exalted ranks yet) to sow doubt and discord, and Hucklebee is dreadfully earnest in his task. Not well informed, however, since he’s using the same, tired old rhetoric that was debunked years ago.
You’re a tool, hucklebee. And not a very useful one, at that.
Oh, and here’s some more up-to-date news for you, huck. You should get out more.
Huck would overthrow the house of Saud by strength of a terrorism-led radicalized uprising and then install a Caliphate under Sharia Law.
I’m actually not sure just what ol’ Huckster would do. On the one hand he whines like a banshee about the US deposing a tyrant like Saddam, and then he turns on a dime and yammers on and on about the United States’ having diplomatic relations (gawd, how brutal!) to the also-not-very-nice Sauds.
Of course, the three or so times one of us has put him on the spot and asked just what he would do, he’s invariably gone for the juvenile cop-out of “I’m against everything which means I don’t have to make any useful suggestions”. Lame. In fact, more lame than any other wannabe-troll we’ve had here in the past few years.
Okay, so that one time he apparently advocated for the East Germany “solution” - wait a few decades until the regime hopefully falls over on its own and let’s not concern ourselves too much with what happens in the meantime. Wow, that’s that famed lefty compassion at work right there. As somebody born in East Germany, I only have a few words for you, Huckster - fuck you and the sanctimonious horse you rode in on. You don’t understand anything.
I can only surmise that your outlook on the world is much like that of a five-year old, i.e. “if I close my eyes, it’s not happening”. And we RWDB’s are the ones you think are deliberately ignoring what happens in the world. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so depressing to find out that idiots like you really do exist.
Huckabee’s standard on when a regime should be overturned:
Remember the Berlin wall and what followed in Eastern Europe?
IOW, when either its sponsors or the regime itself gives up or collapses under its own weight.
Huckabee, you are a disgusting ghoul.
Posted by Patrick Chester on 2007 06 23 at 05:12 PM • permalink#204.
Yes I do, and to compare the 2 is farcical in the extreme. The wall wqas brought down because a nation wanted to be re-united and could see a happy, secular, democracy just over the wall. They saw they were living oppressed, squallid and unfree and took action.
Why is that farcical? I’m sure many Iraqi’s could see ‘happy’, secular, ‘democracies’ on their TV’s and aspired to the same rather than suffer under Saddam’s rule.
Iraq hasnt had a functioning government beyond dictatorship since the Poms left.
The Poms imposed a Hashemite monarchy on Iraq when they carved the state out of the Ottoman Empire. The also dropped White Phosphorus bombs on Kurds who were demanding their independence. Perhaps Saddam learn’t something from them?
What reasons do you give for the invasion of Iraq that couldnt have been achieved by the US normalising relations with Saddams regime, and resuming trade with him?
Opening up Iraq’s formerly nationalised Oil industry to privatisation by Western corporations. Oh, and the establishment of permanent military bases with which to ensure control of those oil reserves and to more effectively police the MidEast. Don’t you read the news?
Surely your not advocating using civillians as a shield is now a legitimate tactic?
US airstrikes have made that tactic redundant, the US will simply bomb the the entire area regardless of whether civilans are present or not.
BTW there tends to be a fairly big difference between what is a benevolent dictatorship (unjust and offensive as it is) and a dictatorship which rules by terror such as Saddams.
So, dictatorship is okay? We’ll have to agree to disagree then. However your acceptance of dictatorship renders your question regarding how to democratize the MidEast somewhat puzzling. I mean, why would you care?
#220.
And so far, it’s working, with dozens of terrorists killed. It bears watching. But sadly, if the successes pile up, it won’t be long until the story’s pushed even further back in the nation’s newspapers.
That’s funny, I just saw a mention on it on prime time TV news here. Dozens of terrorist killed eh?
#222.
kay, so that one time he apparently advocated for the East Germany “solution” - wait a few decades until the regime hopefully falls over on its own and let’s not concern ourselves too much with what happens in the meantime. Wow, that’s that famed lefty compassion at work right there. As somebody born in East Germany, I only have a few words for you, Huckster - fuck you and the sanctimonious horse you rode in on. You don’t understand anything.
I’m sorry, I thought it was a mass movement of People Power that brought down Stalinism in Eastern Europe. You don’t give your former fellow compatriots much credit. That’s a shame, i though they were very brave and a sterling example of how to achieve regime change without airstrikes and massacres.
And Andy? Take this Protester Ambulation Constrainment Orb back to the damn lab. The yo-yo disguise sucks and would not fool the dumbest leftard, it doesn’t have the range promised and does not break the legs of anyone let along an entire parade of lefty protesters. For which I am grateful.
It has to be ready for the next G8 summit and they’ve got a ways to go.
MarkL
Minionmeister to the VRWCChuckhuckafuck is a complex entity. Lacking a moral compass. I sense a large dose of public servant in him/her. By that I mean the animal is well read and has a questioning retentive mind. A Bob Brown on steroids. But like many/most public servants of this ilk it has been a long lonely non rewarding journey in the one man boat with a single paddle against a strong current. Poor old prick gets his jollies these days playing ping pong on Blair’s blog as the medium allows him the chance to show his broad knowledge of facts but lacking that moral crunch of choosing between right and wrong. Ignore him as Geoff says and he will go away. He is revelling in the luck of being so popular. This blog may be his only source of joy in life.
Well I’ve just taken that away. Now he’ll have to go back to looking up teenage pr0n or whatever it is such people do.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2007 06 24 at 09:35 AM • permalinkMehaul: widely read? Grasp of facts? He’s swallowed whole every anti-Western screed, speech, insinuation and conspiracy theory available but he has no actual cohesive worldview, no conceptual framework, and so in any sense the word “fact” cannot be applied because he cannot distinguish facts, lacking as he does any systematic basis for sorting data.
Yes, he memorised a whole bunch of word-strings, but it’s no more meaningful than the natterings of an especially well-trained parrot.
#236 Wreckage. You’re right I should have put ‘’ around the word facts. Your description of him fits several I know in the wine retail industry. They have a bank of a few hundred wine words which they rattle off amongst a mix of slurps and grunts. Their skill lies in not mixing the words so each wine has its own unique band of verbage.
A few see through it, others think they are geniuses.
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