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LANE HANGS IN THERE
Sunday Age editor Peter Fray is still deciding whether to accept columnist Terry Lane’s resignation. Fray is slow to accept a lot of things. Meanwhile, the Age yesterday finally got around to yanking Lane’s column.
UPDATE. Andrew Bolt adds Terry Lane to the list.
UPDATE II. Lane survives:
Longstanding columnist Terry Lane will continue to be published by The Sunday Age despite being duped by a hoax internet video of an American claiming he had killed innocent women and children in Iraq.
The newspaper’s editor, Peter Fray, said yesterday he would review fact-checking procedures after Lane admitted that he had not checked the video of a man calling himself Jesse Macbeth, whose fakery, Fray said, “would have been found within 15 seconds”.
Fray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
“Terry Lane has been a great servant of The Sunday Age and journalism over many years. His column last week was a low point for him and the paper. I have decided against accepting Terry’s offer to resign,” he said.
“He has been mortified by the week’s events and humiliated in public. I am confident he will check and double-check and triple-check his sources in the future.
“He has learned his lesson, as has this paper.”
Pathetic.
UPDATE III. Earlier reactions from Questions and Answers and New Sisyphus.
UPDATE IV. An earlier News Ltd report:
“It’s one almighty stuff-up,” Sunday Age editor Peter Fray said yesterday.
“I mean, there’s no other way of looking at it.
“Myself and Terry are embarrassed by the mistake.”
FLASHBACK. The Age Jim Schembri attacks blog commenters:
You seem totally oblivious to the possibility that I might feel “kind of serious” about the heaving torrents of professional and personal abuse you have been running about me on your blog for over a month.
These cascades of abuse and personal insults have flourished unfettered and unedited. They promote lies about me and my work and are crammed with inaccuracies because the principles of fact-checking, verification and accountability that usually accompany a journalist’s work have not been applied.
Those commenters accused by Schembri should apply for work at the Age. They evidently qualify.
“He has been mortified by the week’s events and humiliated in public. I am confident he will check and double-check and triple-check his sources in the future.
Yeah, but will he check and double-check and triple-check his biases in the future? The least he can do is volunteer to do time in the “Dunk the Columnist” tank at the next Wing-Nut Blogfest.
I am so glad that he stayed. I have been trying to get someone to publish a story about a world record forteen foot bear with two hikers in its stomach shot in Alaska.
Do we have his email address?
Why didn’t Lane just quit? This bullshit of offering a resignation knowing full well that he wouldn’t be called to act on it is hardly the act of contrition Lane thinks it is.
Be a real man and clear out your own desk without being told to. Let’s face facts Tezza, who the hell is going to believe any word you speak or write?The Age just shot its reputation all to hell. Lane gets caught and can’t worm his way out so he fakes a resignation knowing the Age’s kindred spirits are just like him.
What a fraud.
Maybe Age readers might get a clue about the rest of the paper and read something else.Posted by Gary from Jersey on 2006 08 02 at 02:32 PM • permalinkLane gets caught and can’t worm his way out so he fakes a resignation knowing the Age’s kindred spirits are just like him.
The other possibility/probability being that it was scripted like this right from the moment they realised their little anti-war dreamboat was just another lefty liar. Something along the lines of “OK Terry, you offer a heartfelt apology and we will wring our hands for a while to show how dedicated we are to the truth (we’ll leave the article up as long as possible… accidentally of course…teh heh..)and then we’ll graciously refuse to accept your resignation…simple.”
And I love this comment
Fray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
So basically the problem was that Lane got his information from the internet - not that he had believed a wildly unbelievable story simply because, as he said, he “wanted to believe it.”?It really will be interesting to see
howif Media Watch handles this one.Gee, an ultra-left loon told a pack of lies and got away with it?
How unusual.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2006 08 02 at 05:24 PM • permalinkIt’s not his fault. The internet lied to him! And then it stole his wallet and snuck off in the middle of the night.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 08 02 at 05:58 PM • permalinkWaiting for mediawatch to be all over this in?
/crickets
Or a brief mention of the case followed by a long “Lane offered his apology and resignation” followed by a long suck job on his ethics.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 08 02 at 06:25 PM • permalinkOdd how all these mistakes favor only one side, isn’t it?
Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2006 08 02 at 06:29 PM • permalinkof course, Lane could demonstrate his genuine contrition by quitting…
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 08 02 at 06:40 PM • permalinkFray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
Should we laugh, or cry?Fray must be a New Luddite.
It’s like saying “We must check all pigeon post, public bar, telephone, radio or TV information”.
Besides, the internet has instant Google searching, which the others don’t.The Age (including its Sunday edition) has stooped to a new low.
It’s not enough that the staff hate working there and that staff morale is at an all time low. Or that they have lost their best journalists to other papers or early retirement. Or that Editor-in-Chief Andrew Jaspan is the most hated man in the publishing world. Fairfax needs to take a hell of a big look at The Age.
Considering Jaspan is head hunting the journos at The Australian and nobody will bite—he ought to take a look at his own hated arse and ask why.
Speaking of Media Watch I sent a post to their Message Board about Lane’s article 2 days ago. They have yet to post it. Protecting their political mates yet again me thinks.
I heard that Peter Fray has asked Terry to cover the following stories:
1. The secreting of saltpeter in solidiers’ food
2. The return of Baghdad Betty.
3. Cooking an egg using a mobile phone.
4. Terry Lane’s resignation.
Once again, we prove the theory that it is simply not possible to shame a lefty. They are incapable of taking responsibility for their own conduct and accepting the consequences.
Henceforth, I move that the craven scrivener in question be referred to solely as Terry “Macbeth” Lane in all correspondence, so that future online searches for the toad will all bring forth his iniquity.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 08 02 at 08:05 PM • permalink#33 and 34 - you both get my vote. If the man’s ethics were in order, he would have walked in to the editor’s office, handed him his resignation and gone straight to clear out his desk.
Please excuse me while I cleanse myself of my former and obviously out-of-date admiration for Terry Macbeth Lane.Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 08 02 at 08:18 PM • permalinkStay tuned for Terry’s mea culpapiece in next Sunday’s Age. Drawing from he Jason Blair and Howard Raines school of journalism we’ll read that, “yes dear readers, I should have checked my facts…so, so sorry about that. But hey, what I wrote doesn’t diminish the fact that (1) America is evil; (2)George Bush is a war criminal;and (3) although I fell hook line and sinker for Jesse McBeth, that’s what American soldiers are doing in Iraq.” Terry won’t let a little matter of journalistic laziness and mindless anti-Americanism outweigh his overwhelming sense of moral superiority.
BTW, Andrew Bolt could use a bit of fact-checking - or at least a sub-editor:
“Let’s add up those who have been found out.
* Dan Rather was forced to resign last year as the news anchor of America’s CBS network after relying on plainly bogus documents - and exposed as bogus within hours by bloggers - to “prove” President George W. Bush had dodged his military duty. ANOTHER media lie about the war on terror. Another 16 people dead, this time thanks to Newsweek.
” Plus at least two other bad spell-checks… Andrew will soon be as bad as the New York Times… don’t tell Media Watch, they will rip him for the spelling.I remember MediaWatch taking Mark Steyn to task on whether he was fooled by what they though was a hoax (which it wasn’t). That rather minor issue had two runs on Mediawatch:1 August, 2005 and 12 December, 2005.
Lets see if a real sucker, Terry “Macbeth” Lane (thanks Richard), for an obvious hoax gets the critical examiation he deserves.
Off-topic, but for those interested: The Wizard of Oz about Mr Howard from the UK Daily Mail.
Hate to say “TOLD YA SO”:
From my #53 in previous Lane post: “Lane has done the ““honourable”” thing knowing that his bosses will most likely not accept his resignation. Why should they? If they let go every dishonest reporter on the payroll, they’’d be without a staff. Besides, they reward the Lane distortion of news, it’’s that drives their reporters.”From #61 in previous Lane Post from Paco who is usually completely right but is only partially right here:“Don’’t think so,Stats.
A more likely scenario is that they accept his resignation, but still use him for guest appearances on the opinion page. Sort of like semi retirement, but still good money.”Fray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
Must be bedtime, I would’ve sworn that read “a system of flogging” the first time I read it…and I thought it a bit archaic but certainly a policy idea way past its time!
anagallis - cor blimey, fair makes one blush, doesn’t it?
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 08 02 at 08:57 PM • permalink#20 But Madison, unfortunately, but predictably, they have trotted out the “fake but true” line.
At the end of the article, “Lane told the Crikey website on Tuesday he could have relied on facts and figures from Amnesty International to make his case”.
“The substance of my article was undeniably correct, I just referenced the wrong sources” - Terry “Macbeth” Lane, Sunday Age, 6 August 2006
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 08 02 at 09:12 PM • permalinkThe Terry Lane scandal is turning into a real scandal now. Obviously the truth is of little concern to The Age - closing ranks behind leftwing writers being their primary concern.
Even Media Watch will be unable to avoid covering this. It will be interesting to study their choice of words and the “tsk,tsk, Terry’s a naughty boy but we forgive him” approach.
It will also be fascinating to see whether they answer the damning editorial about ABC bias in Wednesday’s The Australian. Interesting times ahead folks.
#48: The warped lunatic leftoids like Merlin will soon give up the “forgiveness” line and soon re-attack the US, the US military, Australia - without forgivenes- for faults as real as “plastic turkeys”, with a viciousness that knows no bounds, and will invoke, if they must, Jesus (in whom they have no belief) to justify the barbaric acts of the Muslies againt their fellow countrymen. These leftoids are adept at putting themselves on a high moral plane to achieve their ends.
I’m giving myself a Brownie Point for calling this one a couple of days ago…
Lane’s diatribe has a completely disingenuous tone to me.
1. I have been caught propogating an outrageous lie
2. The fall on the sword strategy is always best in these circumstances
3. Woe is me. I have offered my resignation showing what an honest fellow I really am
4. Peeps out from under covers. Have they fallen for it yet?
5. Yep.
6. Business as usual…There are new cases of torture at Guantanamo Bay…dum de dum…<taps away on keyboard>...<whistles happily>...Posted by Jack Lacton on 2006 08 02 at 09:24 PM • permalinkYou can’t even get fired in this town no more!
Newsflash: French students take to the streets demanding Fairfax employment contracts.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 08 02 at 09:26 PM • permalinkTotal scum eh…
This is just proof that this rag has degenerated from employing serious journalists to just paying rank liars, hypocrites and propagandists…. if you can hold your job after this, you can obviously print or make up anything you want, just make it a little less obvious so you don’t get caught out, but never fear having to face any consequences…
This is the paper for ant lowenstein…
O/T Muslim fun day cancelled…
BRITAIN’S biggest theme park has called off the country’s first National Muslim Fun Day because of lack of interest, the park said.
Muslim Fun Day Cancelled?
Couldn’t sell enough tickets for the mobile crane ride?“He has learned his lesson, as has this paper.”
Ohhh Right!!! So we’ll never be subject to their journo’s writing garbage because they wanted to believe it. I for one look forward to the unquestionable objective and balanced reports going forward.
Anybody here able to put me onto a good bridge salesman??Posted by Hank Reardon on 2006 08 02 at 10:37 PM • permalinkTotally o/t, but ...
Remember Alton Towers’ “Muslim Fun Day” and how we laughed about Muslim non-fun-ness? Well, we were right. It’s been cancelled due to lack of interest.
Another “told you so” here, alongside Jack Lacton (#52)
I had a feeling this sorry excuse for a journalist wouldn’t depart, regardless of the circumstances.
To those commenters on the earlier thread who were promoting the lines; “honourable man. . . .forgive him. . . . . did the decent thing . . . . . .” etc, I hope the truth is not too bitter a pill.
You were fooled by experts in fooling people.Bloody “Age”.
A travesty and a joke, and a shameful shadow of what was once a great newspaper.Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 08 02 at 11:02 PM • permalink#60 - Pedro
It is certainly not the great paper that it used to be.
Calling it a joke is probably going to cause a delegation of clowns and comedians to complain about the comparison.
Posted by Jack Lacton on 2006 08 02 at 11:25 PM • permalinkI forgot to point out that Lane’s actions fall neatly into my aphorism on the Left:
Why spend time researching when I could spend time forming opinions?
Posted by Jack Lacton on 2006 08 02 at 11:46 PM • permalinkstats, re #43.
I didn’t say so at the time, but I didn’t believe you. I was totally wrong, and the Sunday Age is just exactly as mendacious as you said it was. I just couldn’t believe they’d sink that low. Low yes, but surely not that low.
It’s not just the matter of bias, it’s a matter of professionalism. The only possible reason for not accepting a journalist’s resignation under these circumstances is because he was being fired, and not merely allowed to resign.
So yes, brag away. You did indeed Tell Me So, and No, I thought you had to be exaggerating. Next time, I’ll know better.
Well Lane was only applying the same standards set by that other Fairfax star,McGeough.He happily reported the “fact” that Iyad Allawi,the Iraqi Prime Minister,was in the habit of personally executing prisoners.McGeough claimed that Allawi had shot six prisoners at the Al-Amariyah security centre in Baghdad.Of course no evidence of any kind was ever produced to substantiate this claim but McGeough’s word was good enough for the patriots at Fairfax to run the story on the front pages of their scabby newspapers.
It sounded like bullshit off the bat. Refer to comment 2 in previous Lane thread. We hear apologies all the time from sportsmen, drunken actors, and the like and they all weasel out of apologising by saying something like, “I would like to apologise if my behaviour caused offence,” like it’s someone else’s fault for being offended.
Here is a prediction: Media Watch will not mention either the Lane or the BTW affairs. Their reason, if asked, will be that these issues have already been sufficientlt aired and dealt with, old news etc etc!!
Posted by Consuela Potez on 2006 08 03 at 12:44 AM • permalinkI can see no reason for Media Watch to concern themselves with this issue, while there continue to be typos in the Launceston Examiner and lax journalistic standards amongst morning TV weather presenters.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 08 03 at 01:02 AM • permalinkOne would imagine that after the week’s uproar over Terry Lane’s vicious and unfounded slandering of the US Army, The Age would by now have applied its correction policy as published p2 of The Age every day:
“It is the policy of The Age to correct all significant errors as soon as possible. The Age is committed to presenting information fairly and accurately.”
Maybe the news piece in The Age today on Lane could qualify as an informal correction. But turn to The Age website, and the Lane comment piece’s headline is there. But when clicked, it reads:
“Sorry your page was not found ...
We could not find the page you requested. This is often because older content has been removed from our site. In most cases you can still find the item via our archive service, News Store, where you can buy articles for a small fee.”
Note: no correction let alone an apology.
I went to archives, paid my ‘small fee’ of $2.20 at 3.30pm Thurs 3/8 (for the second time in two days), and there in all its glory is the Lane piece, again with no explanation or correction.
Yesterday pm (Wed 2/8) I wrote to Crikey complaining about The Age’s unprofessionalism on corrections (to that point The Age had been totally silent on Lane). Crikey today published a dozen letters on many subjects but chose not to publish mine—the Left closing ranks after all this embarrassment, perhaps?
Lane at least has grovelled. The Age per se
continues to show its contempt for both professional standards and its own correction policy.Excuse me for going off-topic folks, but
BREAKING NEWS
our Tim is now Number 2 lefty baiter in the world!
Margaret Thatcher holds the top spot.Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 08 03 at 01:46 AM • permalink#64 I do not think either the left or right have a monopoly on this - take a quick look at the creationist/ID garbage from the christian right.
OK, it’s a human characteristic. Aside from the observed fact that the politically left leaning segment of Western civilization in general (and the Age specifically) have it honed to a fine art, I mean.
What’s your point, Skeptic?
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 08 03 at 01:46 AM • permalink#70- At least the loons of the fundie right don’t portray themselves as oracles of the real truth, as unimpeachable defenders of democracy and the only true representatives of all that is worthy in the fourth estate.
Lane is an odious, duplicitous, reactionary dribble of pus- the “management” who didn’t accept his pathetic resignation let alone have security kick his skinny arse the length of the copyroom and empty the contents of his desk drawer on his pointy head as he was hurled physically out the back door, the festering boil from which he oozed.
Habib
Dont hold back, let us know what you really think of “MacBeth” Lane?
Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 08 03 at 02:21 AM • permalinkCan’t say I’ve ever had the pleasure of listening to his inane gibberish. Going by the description, I’m surprised he’s not a regular on the 7.30 Report- there’s no vacancy on Lateline, as that spot’s amply filled by Secret Squirrel.
Link didn’t work, Achillea. So, does the young infidel lady get to have her wedding at Alton Towers or not?
Posted by Harry Eagar on 2006 08 03 at 03:00 AM • permalinkI’m not sure what’s the point.
If someone did an analytical survey comparing the veracity of the content of blogs (you know, like, that the cat picture is truly a cat and not a, errr, dog) with the truthfulness of stories from the mainstream media, well, who do you think would win?
An honest assessment would be appreciated. Perhaps some neutral academic could began a thesis about the topic.
After my family suffered a terrible tragedy last year, I stopped reading blogs for a bit. When I went back all I could see was petty and mean trivia. Adults saying stuff they (hopefully) wouldn’t say to someone else if they met them in person. I have been as guilty of that as anyone and I regret it.
The impact that blogs have had on the MSM deserves examination. Who enjoys wading through the tripe that is Sam and the City?
I was amused to read this when I signed up five minutes ago:
“By registering at this site you agree not to post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or that violate any laws. We will permanently ban all users who do so.”
Tee hee, tee hee. Is that meant to be satire?
I look forward to The AGE publish on their front page a full apology to the US Army for slandering it.
Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 08 03 at 04:38 AM • permalinkDarlene
The difference between a hugely resourced and largely staffed and apparently well edited newspaper and the average blog should be much greater than it often is.
I look at a blog and I am getting one persons view of a particular story or event. I dont expect anything else.
However when (for example) I watch the ABC, which I have no choice but to fund, and see events I was directly involved in (detention riots) reported with the ABC acting as an advocate for the rioters I get a little jaded.
With most blogs you get what you expect, you can make fun of those you disagree with, and ignore others. With large media organs they are supposed to try to be impartial (barring editorial or opinion pieces), this doesnt happen.Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 08 03 at 05:28 AM • permalinkSunday Age editor Peter Fray apparently doesn’t know whether to to say “Me” or “I” in the sentence
“Myself and Terry are embarrassed by the mistake.”
and attempts to avoid the issue by using “Myself.”
If you have trouble with this, a simple trick is to imagine doing whatever it is all by yourself, so if you thought you’d say“Me and Terry are embarrassed by the mistake.”
then you leave Terry out of it, (imagining him to be absolutely shameless,) which would give you the sentence “Me am embarrassed by the mistake,” which no one would ever say, although people say “Me and X are” all the time.
So what Mr. Fray meant to say was “Terry and I are embarrassed by the mistake.”
Amazing that you can be appointed editor of a largish Melbourne paper without knowing that.
Posted by James Fulford on 2006 08 03 at 05:35 AM • permalink#22,24, TimT, I caught BTN and was gobsmacked. I got some of it on tape, but the transcript is here.
My favourite pearler:
Israel has now agreed to allow humanitarian aid to be flown in, and is working with the UN to allow civilians to leave southern Lebanon. It’s also halted bombing in Southern Lebanon for two days after world reaction to an attack, which destroyed a building where 60 people were sheltering.
Israel has also had deaths, injuries and damage to homes and buildings. Hezbollah reportedly says it wants to destroy the state of Israel and has been firing rockets across the border, mainly into the city of Haifa.
The bit about Hezbo “reportedly” wanting to destroy Israel was voiced over a clip of Nasrallah.
I was shocked and awed at the show, I tell you!
At least my child won’t be watching it - whenever it comes on I start ranting at the telly and foaming at the mouth. Kid can’t change the channel quick enough!
So much for ABCKids!
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 08 03 at 06:13 AM • permalinkDarlene: gee, you see, awfully bitter. It sounds like your tragedy, for which, of course, you have my condolences, has left you with a darker view of things than you used to have. I don’t know about “blogs,” but Tim’s website is as it has always been—and it’s a lot less infected by “petty and mean trivia” since I’ve eliminated most of the trolls.
The statement you refer to at sign-up is a bit of standard boilerplate that comes with the Expression Engine software that this blog runs on. I may go in there and remove it some day, as it is so bland, and besides I can’t stand the mealy-mouthed word “hurtful.” For a more characteristic comment policy you should read the site FAQ.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 08 03 at 06:31 AM • permalinkTerry Lane, we are told, is a highly respected journalist. He has made quite a comfortable living (with generous superannuation) for over 30 years at taxpayers’ expense using the vast resources of the ABC to preach to a captive audience (he trained as a Baptist minister). This exposure has resulted in a high public profile which he has used to sell books and newspaper articles.
Any comparison with Christian fundamentalists, blog commenters (like me) etc. is fatuous. We’re not paid.
Anyway I’m glad that he has learned his lesson (at the age of about 66).
How can a highly respected journalist live that long and learn nothing?Habib, I think I love you.
Western Resistance has the dirt on the Muslim Fun Day(tm), and I’ve just emailed my own bleat to Behind The Nooz.
And to bring it back on topic, Terry “Macbeth” Lane should help with the google rankings for this story.
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2006 08 03 at 06:48 AM • permalinkMaybe the Age could do with a chap like this as their editor- Shady wouldn’t have had a chance to quit, he would’ve been fired for his lack of accuracy, lake of evidence and scaremongering; I’d bet that Lane’s even got a shabby seersucker suit and a boater as well.
But the Macbeth video is a lie that bespeaks the truth!!!!
Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 08 03 at 07:19 AM • permalinkI Love this line at the time of Peter Fray’s appointment as Sunday Age editor:
“He is passionate about The Age and its importance to Melbourne and Victoria as the state’s quality paper and joins a very talented team. ” - Don Churchill, MD of Fairfax Victoria.
The team is so talented and the paper has such quality that it uses zero fact-checking.Had to throw in another fact checking problem, Fisk.
Qana
“On Wednesday, Human Rights Watch questioned the death toll in the Qana attack. The international group listed the names of 28 known dead from the attack and said that 13 others were missing and might still be buried under the rubble. The discrepancy was attributed to an assumption that only nine of the people who took shelter in the basement of the building survived, but it emerged that at least 22 escaped, the group said.”Fisk reports on Counterpunch 31st
Israel Kills 34 Kids in Qana
“In all, there were 56 corpses brought to the Tyre government hospital and other surgeries, and 34 of them were children.”He knows because, detodos-paratodos
“I went straight to the government hospital in Tyre, where many of the wounded—and there weren’t many, because most of them died—had been taken and where they were counting the number of children.
When I arrived there, there were a number of, maybe 20, 30 children, the corpses of children, lined up outside the government hospital, hair matted, still in their night clothes”Lying bastard, he obviously didn’t go to the hospital.
He also claims
And there was no doubt of the missile which killed all those children yesterday. It came from the United States, and upon a fragment of it was written: “For use on MK-84 Guided Bomb BSU-37-B”.Remarkable,
And in an interview with Amy Goodman on detodos-paratodos
“It’s a guided weapon. We know that because the computer codes have been found on the bomb fragments.”Any one know what a computer code on a bomb fragment would look like?
How co
Sorry O/T but how nauseating is this???
ACT Chief Minister has nominated Terry Hicks as Australian Father of the Year!!!
Terry Hicks nominated for dad of year
So we have one clown think Hicks should be Australian of the Year, and another Idiot thinking his dad is Father of the Year!!!!
What fools!!!!
#98,
Oh Habib, behave yourself!. Apparently there’s a statement about that kind of thing.Posted by Daniel San on 2006 08 03 at 08:00 AM • permalinkAny one know what a computer code on a bomb fragment would look like?
He may be referring to a barcode or just a part number. Modern (ie, not the barbarians Fisk ass-kisses) militaries need to track their ammunition, so I’d imagine they use that kind of technology.
Wasn’t Fisk the fellow how “found” missile parts in a Baghdad market that “proved” the US was firing on Iraqi civilians? Didn’t it turn out that it was from a HARM that locked onto a mobile SAM launcher Saddam’s forces had parked in the middle of that market?
If so, it appears Fisk is making it a habit to turn Arab war crimes (hiding among civilians) against the civilized world.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 08 03 at 08:02 AM • permalinkFray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
Does that translate into a further loosening of standards… the internet is obviously unreliable. ‘Flagging’ is a polite way of saying ‘waiver of responsibility’ isn’t it?
Posted by stahlblume on 2006 08 03 at 08:26 AM • permalinkCindy and David- Parents of the Year!
Vote now! You know you want to.
And they wonder why a man drinks.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 08 03 at 09:07 AM • permalink“He has learned his lesson, as has this paper.”
Keep this for future reference, just in case….
Posted by Bashir Gemayel on 2006 08 03 at 11:44 AM • permalinkO/T Further proof that some fruit cakes just never know when to stick a sock in it…
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian-backed militant group Hezbollah.
and
He urged Muslim states to “isolate” the United States and Britain, accusing them of supporting Israel’s military offensive and saying they should be expelled from the U.N. Security Council.”
This last bit of demented ramblings reminds me of an episode of Yes Prime Minister when some shady African Leader threatened that he would have Britain expelled from the Commonwealth if they didn’t turn a blind eye to some shady corrupt deals…
This guy’s minders just have to get this sorry sack of shite back on his meds or its all gonna end in tears….
Let’s see…...... A few hundred thousand well armed Allied troops on Iran’s eastern and western borders. Half the US fleet to the South. No help to the north and they tell a nuclear armed and thoroughly pissed off Isreal that they want to destroy them.
Makes sense to me. President A…whatever must be in the need for some virgins.#70 Skeptic
ID garbage from the Christian rightWhy drag Intelligent Design into this? It doesn’t seem to be the issue here.
Also, why call the mere hypothesis that there may be a Creator, “garbage”? Is it because you know the entire history of the origin of the universe, and have absolute proof that everything in it has occurred by accident?
The universe is a big place. I trust you’ve explored every corner of it to determine that there’s no evidence for God anywhere at all, and therefore human life is just a pathetic accident. Why are you here? Does your existence have no meaning at all? That would seem to be a sad thing.
#120, Here you have a situation where a leftoid journalist is caught in an outright lie and the editor rewards him for it. So, I ask you, what response can a leftie have? None, you say, but you are wrong. Everyone who has observed the leftie trolls here(ADDamo, deleft, PB2, LLL, et al) knows exactly what they will do; change the subject, of course,to themselves, if possible, present an irrelevant observation or argument, or just make noise to create confusion. And now we have “Skeptic”, just another disguise for one of the usual idiots. You ask a very good question of “Skeptic”: Why are you here? Does your existence have no meaning at all?
# 121 I’m sorry, its early down here—what was the question again?
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 08 03 at 03:53 PM • permalinkIranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel.
But of course we’ll have to await tortured translation of “destroy.” As we got with “wiping the map.”
The only thing I would add is that mahv shodan is in fact an intransitive verb construction. Shodan is to become. An mard khoshhal shodeh is “that man became happy.” It is not a transitive verb. That is why mahv shodan is better translated “vanish,” also an intransitive verb. The transitive is mahv kardan, to “wipe out” or “eliminate.”
Re Terry Hicks, Father of the Year, the other night the ABC’s main TV news bulletin devoted at least 5 minutes to a report on a dance company’s ballet about David Hicks.
Perhaps we can expect a musical soon. In The Terrorist from Oz, Hugh Jackman plays David, the shy country boy who goes on to win fame and success as a leading jihadist,receiving Osama’s blessing, before dying after a long,cruel and unfair imprisonment in the infamous Guantanamo hellhole, at the hands of the evil villains, Howard and Bush. Should be good for a Tony.
Cuba cancels Carni`val due to Papa being under the weather.
Muslim Day cancelled.
Mahmoud says destroy Israel and $200/barrel oil.
Yale tells Juan Cole to stick it.
What is this world coming to?
The ACT Minister makes me totally sick in my stomach. The stupid ACT and NT should not even exist at all. Worthless entities run by people that make charlatans look honest.
Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 08 03 at 07:44 PM • permalinkA bit of a Fruedian slip form the leaders of a terrorist group I think.
“Mr Bidu said the fighters from his movement would not travel to Lebanon “because we don’t want to face Israel from the front; we prefer to do it from behind”.”
I bet they do….
http://tinyurl.com/rvawpPosted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 08 03 at 08:21 PM • permalinkIf Terry “Macbeth” Lane is quick enough, the Age could run this story tomorrow…
Fray said he would consider introducing a system of flagging in journalists’ copy those instances where material was sourced solely from the internet.
And what if instead the material came from a left leaning person? Or memos? Or faxes?
It’s irrelevant what the source is, every source should be double checked, especially if the allegation is incendiary. Not only should Lane’s resignation be accepted, the editor and chief editor should be booted too.
The Age will not get beyond this debacle. It’s reputatble will be similar to that of Dan Rather.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 08 03 at 10:01 PM • permalinkTerry Hicks, Father of the Year
Where’s Lucius Junius Brutus when you need him?
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2006 08 03 at 10:32 PM • permalinkWe’ll all be taking The Age really seriously when they demand the resignation of a politician for lying from now on.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 08 03 at 11:17 PM • permalinkEyesight’s not too good, is that swatt or twat?
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2006 08 03 at 11:49 PM • permalink#127. Even his political supporters think Stanhope is an odd fish. I worked as a contactor in the ACT Public Service last year and was amazed at the difficulties people - quite senior people - had in dealing with Stanhope and his office, seems that he was always either in a rage or having a sulk. “Immature” is a word that comes to mind, as a result of which he seems to be very easy to wind up, responding to even the mildest criticism with a tantrum, usually involving silly threats or foolish promises.
If the opposition weren’t so hopeless, they’d be looking for more opportunities to drag Stannie’s chain and provoke his hissie fits, which are amusing from a distance.
As a Chief Minister he is quite incompetent, but then its hard for anyone to manage effectively our playschool jurisdiction!!
Posted by Consuela Potez on 2006 08 04 at 12:09 AM • permalink#73
Aside from the observed fact that the politically left leaning segment of Western civilization in general
I think you’re confusing opinion with fact. But remember the Dirty Harry line ...
#74
At least the loons of the fundie right don’t portray themselves as oracles of the real truth
Are you serious? Their ‘real’ truth is the bible. They believe - as religious fundies of ALL persuasions - that they and they alone have the truth.
#120
Why drag Intelligent Design into this? It doesn’t seem to be the issue here.
I see it as an example that no side, left or right, has a monopoly on stupidity and forming opinions without supporting evidence. Can’t you read?
ID/creationism is junk science. It’s anti-science. Like homeopathy or iridology. If people want to believe in something without any evidence then that is their right. Fine. But don’t try and claim it as science. As for your commentThe universe is a big place. I trust you’ve explored every corner of it to determine that there’s no evidence for God anywhere at all, and therefore human life is just a pathetic accident. Why are you here? Does your existence have no meaning at all? That would seem to be a sad thing.
Yes, it is a very big place. We know that from science, not religion.
No but the simple fact is there is no evidence for a god or gods. I have also not scoured the whole universe for signs the FSM but I doubt it’s out there.
Pathetic accident is your line not mine. I prefer Dawkins’ description blind watchmaker
As for your last 2 questions, and despite what you believe, I do not think it a sad thing. What I find sad is people believing in something for which there is no evidence. The sort of thing that leads to some fundies to strap explosives to their body and kill innocent people because they believe they possess the absolute truth.I think you’re confusing opinion with fact. But remember the Dirty Harry line ...
Perhaps, Skeptic, although there’s anecdotal evidence in my favor.
However, you clearly are confusing opinion with fact. Unless, of course that you have hard, or even anecdotal, evidence that creationism and/or ID is “garbage”, and is not merely your opinion in the form of an assertion.
For myself, I am thinking “Pot, kettle, black”.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 08 04 at 01:09 AM • permalinkForgot to point this out, Skeptic:
ID/creationism is junk science. It’s anti-science.
I could accept an argument that ID is “junk science”, although I might not embrace said argument. However, creationism is pure religion—it pre-dates the concept of science (ever hear of the Book Of Genesis?).
Being scientific generally requires having an open mind. You clearly don’t. This is why I was thinking “Pot, kettle, black”.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 08 04 at 01:14 AM • permalinkTRJ
Perhaps I should have capitalised it or been more specific - I am of course referring to creation science
And plenty of people have anecdotal evidence for , hmm, let’s see
psychic phenomena
ufos
bigfoot etcBeing scientific generally requires having an open mind
Agreed but not so open that your brains fall out.
Perhaps I should have capitalised it or been more specific - I am of course referring to creation science
Of course. This explains everything. You made a typo….or was that a Freudian slip?
And plenty of people have anecdotal evidence for , hmm, let’s see
Atheism
********
None of which has to do with Terry Lane being a openly biased member of the MSM. You jumped in with your own pet peeve as an example of people forming opinions without research…..since religion (which is what ID and “creation science” is all about), by definition, is a matter of faith.
Which is why I classify your example as “very stupid”, and an excellent thread diversion.
In fact, Terry Lane is part of the anecdotal evidence I mentioned earlier. Anecdotal evidence, also by definition, is informal, and not validated. That’s why I qualified my statement. (I didn’t mistype
“creationism”“anecdotal”, by the way.)And Terry Lane is why I said “observed fact” that “...the politically left leaning segment of Western civilization in general (and the Age specifically) have it [baseless opinions] honed to a fine art…”. Which I stand by considering the major error he committed.
So I’m guessing your point was just to be contrarian, and hijack the thread. In short, you have nothing intelligent to contribute to this thread.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 08 04 at 02:01 AM • permalinkCreationism is a common shorthand for creation science - I’m sorry if this confused you, it was not my intent. It was neither a typo or a “Freudian slip”.
Atheism is a philosophy traditionally defined as disbelief in the existence of God. So yes, there is no evidence that there is NOT a god. You cannot prove a negative. My intention, as stated twice now, was not to hijack this thread - you’ve done a pretty good job of it yourself - but .. I cannot be bothered typing it for a third time, you can read it yourself.since religion (which is what ID and “creation science” is all about), by definition, is a matter of faith
LOL. Yes religion is a matter of faith but creation science, and that includes it’s bastard child ID, attempts to claim the mantle of science. It fails on all counts.
O/T (But because this has a lot of subscribers), just on the news, security guard found not guilty of murder.
A security guard, bashed and robbed outside a south-west Sydney hotel, shot and killed her attacker after the struggle was over and he was trying to escape, a court has been told.
She has been found not guilty.
Good.
Excellent news, kae.
Charges should never have been laid. Justice done.Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2006 08 04 at 04:34 AM • permalinkSkeptic: stay on topic. The proper place for discussing what you want to discuss is on your own blog. You can get one for free you know.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 08 04 at 07:02 AM • permalinkAs predicted (#120), when faced with clear, irrefutable evidence of the vicious bias of the left media, what do leftoid trolls such as Skeptic do? Why, change the subject to themselves and their “superior” knowledge thrown to us from their high moral perch. Fact is Skeptic knows almost nothing about science and less about religion. Hey, Skeptic, a little test, easy questions: What is the name of Feynman’s theoretical addition to Quantum Theory: What is the Feynman integral; from what Italian mathematician did Einstein learn the math methodology he needed to develop his General Theory of Gravitation; what is the name of this methodology; what are the conditions for a function to be a probabilty; what is a “sigma-field”? (Quick, to Google!) How many rightous men did the Lord require to spare Sodom; what number is required for a minion and why: Who is God? (I’m sure you can answer the last.)
Thats “minyan” ya goyische putz! (kidding, stats, love your work)
All it takes to form a “minion” is to swear allegiance to his Rovian majesty.
(btw Feynman’s latest book of letters/essays is riveting :” “Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the Beaten Track: The Letters of Richard P. Feynman”.)
Posted by MentalFloss on 2006 08 04 at 03:41 PM • permalink#147, Thanks for the corrections. I exhibited my own ignorance. I know you know the answers to the questions, but here are brief answers (please check me): 1. Feynman’ addition is QED, Theory of Quantum Electrodynamis; His integral is the integral over all possible paths of a quantum level “particle”;Italian Mathematician was Civita (sp?) Levi and the methodololgy was tensor calculus (Einstein, Feynman, Levi were all Jews, or Zionists, as the Muslies would call them); for a funtion to be a probability its domain must be a sigma field, its range the closed positive unit interval, it’s value for the entire domain must be 1, the value of the function for the disjoint union of sets in the domain is the sum of the probabilites of the individual sets, a sigma field is a collection of sets with certain properties too long to list here since too much space already taken, 10 rightous men, 10 because of the Lord’s specification for survival of Sodom, don’t know answer to last.
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Geesh.
When in doubt, lower your standards.