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KERRY NOT AS DUMB AS WE THOUGHT
The Boston Globe reports:
During last year’s presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.
But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago.
It was a similar deal with Bush and Gore.
UPDATE: Jim Treacher in comments: “B-b-but … he stole the election! Pretzel! Internets! WMDS!!!”
UPDATE II:
I do not have a link, but I read some time ago, that Bush has a higher IQ than either Gore or Kerry.
But how hard can that be?
I think Bush is obviously smarter than his critics give him credit for. In fact I would think that it is obvious that their love of their own intellect has blinded them to their own stupidity.
Otherwise why are they so wrong so often?
Nwab, I can assure you that merely making it into an Ivy League university (let alone passing or excelling in your grades) is considered to be an extraordinarliy high achievement. Yes, even “C” students at such institutions can look forward to a WEALTH of career opportinities when they graduate. And with good reason - universities such as these produce VERY, VERY GOOD, employable people.
Posted by Richard_of_Oz on 2005 06 07 at 08:01 AM • permalinkSo what are you implying nwab, that even though the similarity in marks four decades ago IMPLIES that they both have similar intellectual capacity, something happened to turn one of them into chimpy bushitlerburton who is incapable of a reasoned argument, while the other went on to become the thousandth reincarnation of buddha?
Just questioning whether the revelation about these blokes’ grades really tells us anything at all.
I’m sure you’re able to point us to your defense of GWB when only his Yale grades were known and everyone piled on with “his C average PROVES that he’s OBVIOUSLY a moron!”
Otherwise I may be tempted to conclude that your (fairly common sense) statement that 30-year old grades don’t matter that much is predicated on the revelation that Kerry was no better.
Richard of Oz — What it shows us is, Kerry got decent grades at college. Bush learned.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 06 07 at 09:35 AM • permalinkDamn. I saw this story first thing when I woke up, and thought, “Gotta send this to Tim!” Came here to get his e-mail addy, and it’s the first post.
nwab - you’re a riot. Classic lefty goalpost-moving at its most outrageous.
“Bush is stupid.”
“Actually, he went to Yale, and did as well as that nuanced intellectual, John Kerry.”
“OK, sure, he may have been smart once, but he got dumb.”
Beautiful.
Dave S. — It’s the “Plan 9” progressives: “Your stupid brains! Stupid! Stupid!”
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 06 07 at 09:56 AM • permalinkB-b-but… he stole the election! Pretzel! Internets! WMDS!!!
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2005 06 07 at 10:17 AM • permalinkHmmm.
Actually I think Bush does the “rube” schtick on purpose. He got that from Reagan, who played the dupe to perfection, and then cut the legs out from under people all the time.
My only beef is that Kerry released his records ONLY to the Boston Globe and ONLY to the guy who helped write his extremely flattering biography.
Does this strike anyone else as extremely odd?
Posted by memomachine on 2005 06 07 at 10:19 AM • permalinkWord to the wise (as you claim to be) Mr. or Miss nwab: annoying mosquitos eventually get swatted. You have so far contributed nothing here in the past few days but sniping and “hmmms?” and genteel implications that you are oh-so-much-smarter than the drooling rubes here who pound their stone keyboards with their nail-studded clubs, and it’s become quite tired.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 06 07 at 10:47 AM • permalinkEd read Kerry’s own statements over at Captain’s Quarters
Not as dumb as we thought? No, he’s dumber.
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2005 06 07 at 10:48 AM • permalinkAw, Andrea, every village needs its idiot. I’ll admit he/she/it has been off his/her/its game lately, but there’s still some entertainment value there. Can we keep watching him/her/it make a fool of him/her/itself for a little while longer? Maybe until the inevitable table-pounding meltdown?
C’mon, nwab, I’m pulling for you. Kick your game up a notch.
#11 nwab: “Murph, my marks would’ve got me into either - it’s just that Sydney was closer.”
nwab, At just which University in Sydney did you study, then? Not, perchance, the University of Woolloomoloo? And not, maybe, at its famous Philosophy Department? That would explain all.
Still remember the Departmental Drinking Song?
"I think the fact is if you’re on the right most people will think you’re mad, bad and stupid.”
No, most people do not (otherwise you’d Ozzies would be ruled by Cap’n Pancreatis)! Only those people who’ve had an easy life handed to them and think themselves as elite and above the “common people” think that way. But as anyone watching the EU referendums knows, they make a big splash with the media, but not with the people.
"C” students run the world. Much to the consternation of the “... my marks would’ve got me into either...” crowd.
(BTW- “would’ve got me” seems an awkward construction. This is “A” level work in Oz?)
Posted by nofixedabode on 2005 06 07 at 12:51 PM • permalinkI wonder if either of them have changed at all in four decades…
Sure. One of them became the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. And the other—not.
Posted by wronwright on 2005 06 07 at 01:15 PM • permalinkCheck out Kerry’s college photo:
http://www.instapundit.com/
mmmbwahahaha!!PW, there’s no need to draw any conclusion about my opinion of Bush. I have never written anything at all about the man’s intelligence, either in defense of him or in criticism. To be honest, I don’t think either of them are all that bright - what politicians are? - and being an Aussie I couldn’t give a shiny shite either way.
Again, I am only having a dig at Blair’s post. As some others have agreed, it doesn’t mean much at all. Like his post on MediaWatch it is pretty weak - below par, you might say (yep, I usually enjoy his work).
DaveS, I never said “Bush is stupid” (class rightist putting words into people’s mouths - is this a fabled “strawman”?). I reckon he - like John Howard - is probably a pretty smart bloke. Pragmatism in a role with such authority is surely grounded in wisdom. And I’m glad you liked my tongue-in-cheek reply to Murph’s idiotic, “you wouldn’t last two seconds at Yale”.
Tempo, wrong department. And there was no song, mate. (Do Australian uni departments even have a drinking song? Sounds very Yanky to me.) Though I did have a bumper sticker that read “Engineers have bigger erections”.
If you have nothing to say on the matter, why comment at all nwab? You are rapidly becoming this blogs resident dickhead pedant, a post left vacant by the long gone but unmourned Mork.
Not a person whose shoes you really want to fill.
Posted by Quentin George on 2005 06 07 at 05:11 PM • permalinkActually I think Bush does the “rube” schtick on purpose
True. And who’re the bigger morons? Bush or the thousands of leftists twitswho fall for his moron routine?
nwab, sniping and sneering are the hallmarks of a troll. All you’ve done so far is live down to your title of “
villageuseful idiot”. If you don’t like ad hominem attacks and profanities, cease your sniping. You get back what you give out.Back OT, a short recap for you:
One of the classic leftist memes during the recent US elections was “Bush is a moron!” The Euroweenies really went for that one, as well. And Kerry, of course, was much smarter. Google it, if you dare. Try the Democratic Underground as well.
The MSM went out of their way to support this meme, largely by harping on Bush’s speeches and speech patterns. Nary a word of criticism for Kerry. Don’t believe me? Check out Tim’s link to the Boston Globe.
And now this! Kerry had the same grades as Bush. All this posturing and insulting by the lefties was a friggin’ sham, including Kerry. Yet the Rethuglicans didn’t attack Kerry personally, unlike the DNC, who repeatedly attacked Bush personally.
So when Kerry comes clean on his having average grades, digs by anyone are in order. Don’t like that? Getcher your blog.
FYI, my own grades in college were average as well. It’s not what you get for test scores that counts, it’s how well you learned your lessons.
As for engineer bumper stickers, I prefer “Civil Engineers Do It In The Dirt”, myself.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 06 07 at 05:39 PM • permalinkDrinking songs are Yankish? I’ve never heard one drinking song and I’ve been a Yank for, like, ever.
Posted by Matt Moore on 2005 06 07 at 06:41 PM • permalinkHow about:
Dear Mr Blair,
You can do no wrong. Every word you compose is a stroke of unsurpassed brilliance. I uncritically and mindlessly adore every word. I will defend you against scurrilous and extremely hurtful comments by hurling anonymous abuse in a childish internet vernacular.
Your willing servant,
Underscore
President, Blogger Worship SocietyJeffS, Tim Blair’s blog is about</I> sniping and sneering. It’s just that you lot don’t like it when someone does it to him.</I>
In other words, “sniping and sneering” at Tim is the main reason you’re posting here? Wow, that’s sad. We’re at least sniping at people who get lots of MSM love; you’re just sniping at an outspoken blogger.
One almost gets the idea you’re just seeking attention.
Mind you, I do see some value in challenging those readers who uncritically embrace Blair’s mutterings
I take it that it has never occured to you that “those readers” just might be forming their opinions based on more than just Blair’s writings?
Your assumption that the people posting here need to be exposed to more lefty points of view in order to get a balanced picture of the world almost makes me giggle.
That picture of Lurch Kerry reminds me of this
Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2005 06 07 at 08:18 PM • permalinkI was talking specifically about your contrary views posted here, not any random sample. I’m sure you enjoyed being contrary yet again through a willful misreading of my statement though.
If you’d like to make the case that your opinions shouldn’t be classified as broadly leftish, feel free to try, but I think you’ll find that a difficult task.
So, nwab. If you are such the Aussie intellectual how come you spell defence the Yank way?
Posted by Happy John on 2005 06 07 at 08:24 PM • permalinkAnd in light of your remarks summarized in this comment of mine (#33, permalinks seem to be broken by the URL forwarding), I think I’m actually being charitable in calling your opinions “leftish”.
nwab, I suspect your problem is that you see the readers of this blog as one big monolithic entity that needs to be preached to. Maybe a reminder is in order that the conservative side is the “big tent” party nowadays, not the progressives. Case in point:
I disagree with the WSJ about immigration, I disagree with most National Review Online writers on at least one subject (Kathryn Lopez on stem cells, Derbyshire on homosexuality etc.), I disagree with Tim on the Corby Case, and so on. And to throw in a reasonable lefty, I disagree with Mickey Kaus on all kinds of subjects. Yet I continue to enjoy reading all of them, and you know why? All of them know how to present arguments and make their case in a civil way, which is fine with me even if I ultimately disagree with their conclusions.
Now let’s contrast that with your approach, the entirety of which seems to be to look for the angle that allows you to complain how disappointing Tim is, how he covers the wrong subjects, etc. And you even seem to think that this is supposed to be persuasive. It’s not. You’re just (as has been pointed out countless times) being mindless contrarian, and extremely boring and predictable as a result. It’s nice that your grades would have got your into Yale and all, but you’re still presenting yourself as a stereotypical halfwit troll here. Hence my suspicion that you’re mostly in it for the attention (and what do I know, maybe you get off on being verbally berated...takes all kinds, after all).
As I’ve asked before...is that approach really what passes for constructive criticism in your circles?
To be blunt (warning, severe lack of nuance): People like you are the reason that people like us make fun of people like you.
nwab: the difference is I’m paraphrasing your actual comments. You invented mine based on your (rather silly) assumptions.
Happy John, I suspect it’s not a local. Along with your point, I don’t think there’s an Aussie between 15 and 75 who isn’t familiar with the Monty Python “Bruce” sketch set at the fictitious University of Woolloomooloo.
Anyway, I’m shutting up now. I think I’ve only encouraged the twerp. Hecklers can be fun, but they usually run out of material real fast. That’s why they’re only hecklers. We need a sign: Do Not Feed
As James Taranto notes in the WSJ Best of the Web Today page Kerry has alaways been completely unintelliglble in his public utterances. Yet the Democrats and their supporters put out the spin that Kerry’s twisted syntax was evidence of depth and nuance because he was an intellectual powerhouse. They said that George Bush was a moron and at best an average student. The clear implication was that unlike George Bush, Kerry’s academic record was brilliant Now it turns out that Kerry too was average and another plank in the left’s boring attack on George Bush has collapsed. None of us on the Right think that the grade averages of Kerry and Bush really mean anything. What we are laughing at is the obvious discomfort that will be sufferred by the Anti-Bushites who were trying to argue that somehow George Bush’s grades at Yale were of any relevance.
These people of course forget that Winstion Churchill failed his way through Harrow and only just scraped into Sandhurst.I don’t think there’s an Aussie between 15 and 75 who isn’t familiar with the Monty Python “Bruce” sketch set at the fictitious University of Woolloomooloo.
There are plenty - they just inhabit an alternate humourless leftoid universe where Monty Python is a patriarchical homophobic construct designed to oppress minorities.
I don’t trust the Boston Globe.
Those records should be released to the public.
Posted by Evil Pundit on 2005 06 07 at 09:29 PM • permalinkDoes anyone remember Brylcream?
Isn’t that a picture of Oscar Wilde?
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2005 06 07 at 09:37 PM • permalinked:I think Bush does the “rube” schtick on purpose. He got that from Reagan
On at least one occasion, a journalist was allowed into The [I fergit] Room, where he found Reagan reading in front of his desk, which was chock full of beefy tomes. Reagan specifically asked the reporter to not report anything about the books or even their existence. And I think we know why.
nwab: Sorry. I am disassembling.
You’re taking something apart? Did you mean dissembling ?
Whatever. Back to the topic…
Michael Medved, who went to Yale at the “same” time as his more famous comrades, was a bit more critical of Kerry and laudatory of Bush. He claimed on his show today that for Bush’s last two years, the grading scheme at Yale changed, (going to a “pass” “high pass” “honors” or something), and that the conversion to numbers for the comparison were somewhat unfair.
Oh, someone find a transcript, I can’t remember it exactly. Certainly Kerry should get little credit for doing moderately well in Fr*nch, for pierre’s sake.
ISTR that W’s only “D” was in Astrophysics; so he and I have much in common, I think. :) Also interesting that Kerry did poorly in history and poli sci. Hmm.
Also, while W went on to Hahvahd, the admissions guy there now reports that he remembers not letting Kerry into H. Law due to Kerry’s other-than-honorable discharge, which would have meant that he couldn’t sit on the bar anyway. Or something.
*****
Kerry Picture Fictional Character Similarity Contest
(zeppenwolf currently in the lead!)Lurch is ok, but I say it looks more like Gussie Finknottle.
Posted by zeppenwolf on 2005 06 07 at 10:35 PM • permalinkIt’s moving…
It’s alive!
IT’S ALIIIIIVE!!!!
Posted by Richard_of_Oz on 2005 06 07 at 11:37 PM • permalinkDidn’t that picture appear during the credits at the end of Animal House? I’m trying to think of the caption ...
Posted by Mister Falcon on 2005 06 08 at 12:41 AM • permalinknwab, might it be that I do disagree with Tim (and other posters on this blog) on some subjects, and you’ve simply not seen it? Or perhaps I didn’t put enough bile into my comments to meet your own exacting standards?
In any case, if you are posting your snipes and sneers here in some attempt to convince us that Tim Blair is but sniping and sneering, you should be a better sniper and sneerer than he is. As it is, you are pathetic. It’s like watching a mouse trying to hump an elephant.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 06 08 at 01:04 AM • permalinkDamn you, Tim Blair! DAMN YOU!!! You BASTARD! You ambushed me with that picture of John Kerry at a younger age!! My eyes!! My EYES!!!
[psst, nwab! Hey, does this count for criticism of Tim? I’d hate to disappoint you!]
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 06 08 at 01:07 AM • permalinkI’m trying to decide if he looks more like Richard Kiel or Fred Gwynne. Maybe he should have gone into show business. The photos of him throughout the campaign prove he could have been a great comedian.
Then there’s this guy, who doesn’t look much brighter. Was it really a coincidence that he was picked up in Massachusetts?
"I like the smell of my hair treatment; the pleasing odor is half the point.”
Posted by papertiger on 2005 06 08 at 02:19 AM • permalinkThe more I look at this intelligence thing, the more I’m convinced it’s a furphy.
Research in cognitive science tells us that people learn things in much the same way and at much the the same rate. What matters is how much you know about a certain subject, how much you are willing to know and how best to apply what you know.
Most of the Left-derived dumb arse stuff is not about ‘intelligence’ at all but more about these:
(1) You don’t look smart = You don’t have my ‘style’
(2) You don’t sound smart = You don’t agree with me
(3) You don’t live in my part of town = You are perceived as a socio-economic inferior
It comes down to one ironically vulgar attitude - snobbery - and of the kind typical of insecure arrivistes.
Ed said and others commented on, “Actually I think Bush does the “rube” schtick on purpose.”
Both Bush and Kerry have similar backgrounds: born with silver spoons in their mouths—privileged and wealthy. The Bushes moved to Texas while the Kerrys stayed in their east coast enclave. Bush reivented himself as a slow country boy while remaining as sharp as a tack in private. I’ve read that few can best him in argument about anything.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 06 08 at 04:55 AM • permalinkYou’re forgetting the most salient facts . . . Bush played rugby, while Kerry played soccer.
"People like you are the reason that people like us make fun of people like you."
Priceless!
Posted by nofixedabode on 2005 06 08 at 12:30 PM • permalinkDave S. -
Do you mean the classic, “Now, I’m just a poor country lawyer . . . “ routine? I just love that one.
Americans tend to love the Everyman crushing the Elite. (Even if the Everyman is just as privileged as the Elite, and the Elite is just as, shall we say, “average,” as the Everyman. It’s all in the delivery.)
Hey, Dave, doncha know? Anyone even remotely associated with the jackbooted right wing corporate neo-con plastic facists are but mere sheeple, baaing their way to the slaughterhouse. The hive mind is but an unanticipated side effect of Master Karl Rove’s mind control beams from the Hubble Telescope.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2005 06 08 at 01:37 PM • permalink’scurrilous’ There’s a word that doesn’t get used nearly often enough.
nwab, a quick suggestion. Perhaps you should concentrate on the arguments themselves and their merits (or lack thereof) instead of assuming stereotypes about the people making them. Will you always get the same courtesy in return? Nope. But, there you are.
Getting back to the topic of Tim’s post, I got about the same grades as Bush and Kerry in college, and now I’ve achieved the coveted position of pedant here. Funny, the turns in the road of life.
Looking at that picture ... do you have the word ‘doofus’ Down Under?
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