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FLAG TO FLY - POSSIBLY
No Australian flag for Bondi Beach (but it looks pretty good in Alabama and Florida). The stupid council that opposed flying the flag—citing racism concerns—is now pondering a reversal of that decision:
First they feared inciting racial violence, then they said it was the cost and possible damage fitting a flag pole would cause to a heritage building.
But after a day of public pillory from critics, including Prime Minister John Howard and Premier Morris Iemma, Waverley Council conceded defeat yesterday.
It will now consider overturning its controversial decision to ban flying the Australian flag at Bondi Pavilion.
More on this from Malcolm Turnbull.
UPDATE. The flag also flies in New Jersey. Get with the program, Waverley Council!
Flying the Austrailian flag at Bondi Beach is a big mistake. It is a symbol of oppression for the downtrodden everywhere. This is yet another insult to islam, which is worse than insult to injury. Is Australia prepared to deal with the consequences? How about a compromise? I think a green flag with a crescent on it would be just about right.
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2006 01 02 at 01:01 PM • permalinkIs it an acceptable compromise to the city council to paint it on a woman’s butt and have her wave it out a window?
Posted by andycanuck on 2006 01 02 at 01:22 PM • permalinkSpeaking of flags, what happened to the ass-flag on the PETA protester?
Posted by Some0Seppo on 2006 01 02 at 02:19 PM • permalinkSeppo, just go to the main page. It’s still there, unseemly as it is. NOT the Aussie flag, that is, nor the ass, but the impolite combination of the two.
Why do such people misuse free speech so? I find the Bondi Beach council decision much more offensive, though. Same for my US representative’s (Wilson- R- NM) favor for a “flag-burning” ban.
I see American flags everywhere. People fly them on their cars, hang them from the front porches, every car dealership flies one, and don’t even mention the flag colors on jeans, handbags, sneakers, hats, etc. Americans love their flag.
I suggest Australians start doing the same thing. If some people there don’t like it, buy some bunting and put that up too.
#12 RebeccaH. Absolutely agree. Believe it or not, but there are more Australian flags being flown now than used to be the case, when we followed the “English Model” of little or no “overt patriotism”. However, when Paul Keating (PM prior to Howard) starting making noises about changing the flag design (to get rid of the imperialist union jack) there was a sudden outbreak of Australian flags, particularly on private houses. That was a signal to the pollies “don’t mess with the flag”, and the idea of changing it hasn’t been raised again.
The “sudden outburst” turned out to be an enduring phenomenon and the use of the flag is steadily increasing. A few people in our street fly flags. As I said, this would have been absolutely unheard of 20 years ago.
Before 9/11, outside of the 4th of July and Memorial Day, you almost never saw the US flag flying anywhere other than schools, post offices, and the like. After 9/11, well over half the houses in my neighborhood were flying them and, though that number has declined a little, you still find them nearly everywhere.
When i arrived in Australia 20 years ago, folks had no problem indentifying themselves as AUSTRALIAN.
What a breath of fresh air compared to the stench of the self hating Brits!
The Brits who laughed at the unsophistication of Australians ,whilst they themselves were being led onto the road of perdition by the moral corruption of extreme multiculturism and PC of the enlightened progressive libs.
Well, it seems that this noxious virus has finally arrived down under and cannot be sent packing like a visiting cricket team.
The banning of the Flag is a first step in the commiting of national suicide led by people who prefer political correctness to honesty and pride in their country.
They should be sacked before they cause further damage.
let Australia heed the fact that Britain has become a Kafakesque world where truth is unimportant, victim are aggressors.truth is a burden, and a form of cultural marxism has kidnapped the moral high ground . let not this folly invade Australia, it is even more dangerous than the islamist extremism with wish it allies itself and seeks to destroy the moral principles we still hold dear.
more at Melaniephillips.com on the state to which the Brits have sunk.
Difficult to muse over this issue!Glad to see you have all caught up with my post from the New Years Brieflets thread.
Now, is ‘Labor Councillor George Newhouse’ mentioned in the article the same person so often depicted on ABC/SBS and in the Fairfax press launching yet another diatribe at the Howard government over its immigration/refugee policies? If he is, why is he never lablled as such during these diatribes?
Also, check the SMH coverage of this matter - they paint it as Malcolm Turnbull chasing publicity while the council were only concerned about costs of a heritage study if they chose to instal the flagpoles.
And, personally, I am in favour of seeing a new flag for Australia. One that is immediately recognizable to all and demonstrably ours. Remember the Barmy Army singing “get your shit stars off our flag”?
I reckon the Eureka flag is the go, bugger the BLF. I also think the Kiwis ought to adopt the silver fern as their flag.No one has picked up that Republican Malcolm Turnbull presented two different flags to fly for this one nation ... am I being too Arthur Tunstall like in saying one country, one flag? ... we’re not, like some Aboriginal spokesman would like to see, two separate nations ... the flag should be uniting us all ... it has a history and tradition that’s still relevant today ... not unless you’re a cultural cringer about our interesting past ...
Bret
agreed let time and distance protect us!How has unfettered multiculturism,pluralism and PC established itself as the replacement for christian moral beliefs in western countries?
i believe the first steps were in the laying down a bedrock of Guilt and shame in the minds of young people.
Instead of focusing on the achievements of western society, the educators glanced over such subjects and concentrated on the evils perpetrated by imperialism colonisation etc.
At the same time the excesses of communist and leftist totalitarian regimes were distorted into a utopian existence.
nowhere is this more evident that in the left’s glorification of the Stalinist regime. Walter Duranty and the NYT is a prime example of this distortion.
Having established Guilt and ashemedness in one’s own country in the minds of young people, it is extremely easy for the neo marxists to work this for their political agendas and persuade their disciples that they must make ammends by villifying and destroying their own society.
It is this mindset installed in so many of our students by university activists that has created a doppelganger world in which roles are inverted to suit the doctrines.
Only by teaching young people to be proud of their heritage and countering the revisionism can we reverse the process.
Universities have been poisoning young western minds for the last two generations. Yhere is a long way to go to redress this.I’m glad they’ve attacked our flag and our right to fly our flag. Now I can fly it in defiance. Once I would have been embarrassed wave the flag – too jingoistic. Now I’ve got it stuck on my car, motor bike helmet, wherever, because I know the left and the enemies of my country hate it so. Fuck em. Australians worth the name wont be cowed.
#17, Harold
I like the Australian flag and would be perfectly happy if it stays the same in perpetuity. But if it ever should be changed then my vote would be for almost anything but the Eureka flag.
First, it’s been taken up by both communists and neo-nazis (same thing really). I don’t care to fellow-travel with them on anything of such symbolic importance. Or anything at all really.
Second, see this article by Stephen Copeman.
Snippet: “If anything, Eureka symbolises the path our early Australians chose NOT to take. Many immigrants to Australia had experienced the violence of Europe and other continents as they struggled towards democracy. By shunning the violent route to democracy as exemplified in Eureka, Australians laid the foundations for the peaceful democratic reform upon which our system has continued to evolve. Eureka is indeed a unique event - it is a unique example of violent insurrection that Australians have since rejected.”
Yeah, but at least it isn’t another damn tricolor with vertical stripes.
Posted by John Nowak on 2006 01 02 at 09:52 PM • permalink#18 Brett, yes that was the flag I was talking about.
Janice, I just like the design and think it is a good one for Oz. I don’t think the fact that scumbags have tried to claim it as their own should stop others from having it - nor should the fact that a few drunk miners used it in a riot. Drunken Aussie yobbos used the current one in a riot recently.
But if you have a better alternative (I don’t consider the current flag to be one) I’d be happy to consider it.#30 Janice:
Hear, hear ... the current flag represents our heritage, and is also a symbol of our beliefs and hopes ... by the time the majority of people want to change it, it may need to incorporate the crescent moon and star ... or a welfare cheque ... I’m getting too cynical so I’m outta here ...#17 personally, I am in favour of seeing a new flag for Australia. One that is immediately recognizable to all and demonstrably ours. Remember the Barmy Army singing “get your shit stars off our flag”?
I reckon the Eureka flag is the go, bugger the BLF. I also think the Kiwis ought to adopt the silver fern as their flag.
Sorry to adopt a sarcastic tone among friends but come on Harold, the Pommie cricket fans do a bit of sledging (cos their team’s crap and they know it) and you’re wounded?
The flag as it currently stands is already ‘immediately recognizable to all and demonstrably ours’. And, BTW, the use of ‘z’ instead of ‘s’ is American English.
/sarc off
Seriously, I don’t believe our flag should be changed, especially at this point in history. The irony is Turnbull would change it in an instant as soon as he made us into a republic.
#23 Mr Magoo - She isn’t even Australian… strong Pommy accent.
Actually she is Australian, she became an Australian citizen in 1983. It’s not about where you were born but what you do when you get here. There are only 2 options in my book - love it or leave it. I agree that imported lefties are a pain but we have plenty of fully home-grown moonbats of our own.
Plus, Main was born in Dundee, Scotland so that’s not a ‘strong Pommy accent’ you’re hearing. Then again, it’s hard not to be distracted by her sere aged ex-distance runner looks and Greenie lack of make-up/ironed clothes. Plus checkout the waverly council website for the official pic of Newhouse. It looks like it should have the caption ‘Sensitive White Male seeks same’.
-- Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 01 02 at 10:13 PM • permalinkNick, I used the Pommy cricket fans as an example of how our flag is demonstrably not ours. And it is hardly immediately recognizable to all as ours - look at how similar it is to the NZ flag as well as a number of other commonwealth nations’ flags.
Did I say I was wounded by the pommies’ words? Hardly, I thoroughly enjoyed all their songs when they were here, and we beat them in that series as well.
And terribly sorry about not spelling recognizable to your liking, appalling insensitivity I know.
Not sure what the sarc stuff was about.No one has picked up that Republican Malcolm Turnbull presented two different flags to fly for this one nation ...
Once upon a time, Turnbull wanted a different Aussie flag. Like any good businessman (or an extremely good politician) he has changed his opinion.
Ausflag (home to the annoying “Harold Scruby") have disowned him. http://www.ausflag.com.au/
Hmmm,
Given ‘Uncle Tom’ (or should that be Uncle Tarquin going by his photo) Newhouse’s previous efforts, I’m surprised that he wasn’t falling over himself to have an Aboriginal flag:
Sydney eastern Suburbs-based Councillor George Newhouse today said he looked forward to his constituents receiving material from ANTaR – Australians for Native Title and Reconciliation – next year.
“It is our hope that providing information to our ratepayers will contribute to better understanding and reconciliation” said Clr Newhouse
I had to snigger at this though:
For information about ANTaR’s work contact Hilary Blackman 0413 334 632 and http://www.antar.org.au.
Sorry, just being oafish and infantile.
#36 Harold, I agree, the Aust and NZ flags are lamentably similar and cause a deal of confusion even among people who should know better. But I’m with #30 Janice that if it had to change, it should be anything but the Eureka flag. If it had to change, I could go for removing the Union Flag and increasing the size of, and centring the Southern Cross. That seems like a logical progression. But most of the alternatives offered from time to time just look juvenile, and I’m afraid I feel the same way about the Eureka flag.
BTW, I only picked on the ‘z’ spelling to needle you about using American English at the same time as complaining our flag wasn’t Aussie enough. No injury intended.
The sarc thing is joke pseudo-HTML as in:
sarc on/ sarcastic remark /sarc off
I don’t think we can use the proper pointy brackets cos it upsets the real HTML.
-- Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 01 02 at 10:58 PM • permalink#34, Nick, she may now be an australian citizen, but her very actions show that she is still a prisoner of her UK lefty upbringing, kowtowing to the Islamofascists hatred of the flag. Time to come out from underneath your PC carapace, Moira, and grow some Aussie pride (sorry about the mixed metaphor).
Harold, why should we change our flag to suit you or some pommy cricket fan or the kiwis or the fuckin lebmos or anyone else? Its ours, we’re keeping it, go fuck yourself. Clear?
As for it being mistaken for the UK flag – only if you’re pig ignorant. Anyway, I’ll bet they’ll abandon it out of dhimmitude soon enough. In the future the jack in the corner of our flag will be the only thing to remind that once great culture what it threw away.Hey larrikin, as I have said several times - its just my opinion about a national flag. Last time I checked I was still allowed to have and express an opinion.
I didn’t say you had to change it, I just stated what I’d prefer.
For now, to continue the spirit in which you entered this conversation, why don’t you go and fuck yourself. Clear dickhead?Piers Akerman weighs in on the flag issue:
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17714729-5001032,00.htmlNumerous letters in today’s Daily Telegraph slagging off Waverley Dhimmi Council and suggesting they fly a yellow or white flag instead.
I have just written suggesting they hoist a parking officer instead.
At least our flag is recognisable.
National flags seem to fall into several categories:
1. Those bunches of stripes, usually three, going either vertical or horizontal. Could be Ireland, Croatia, Holland, Russia, any Scandinavian country, Thailand… or any where. All look the same. Totally confusing.
2. Those with some local symbol that doesn’t mean much to the rest of the world, usually set against a garish background. The Torres Strait Islands example above. Also lots of African and Pacific examples - Kenya: shield and spears on red, black and green.
3 Boring Communist hammers, sickles and stars. Thankfully not many left now. Principal examples: China, Vietnam.
4. Distinct and instantly recognisable: UK, USA, Australia, Japan.
Yike, the change the flag/don’t change the flag debate is possibly the only question which really polarises people regardless of their political leanings. Maybe the weather’s too hot at the moment to get into it.
-- Nick
Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 01 02 at 11:39 PM • permalinkTo be fair to the council moonbats, there is good evidence that the presence of your own country’s flag can provoke murderous racist violence among people who are otherwise completely tolerant and moderate and peaceful and not at all in thrall to a totalitarian death cult. And thanks to the British Labour party’s capitulation to assorted separatists, the Union Jack is already on its way out in favour of the Cross of St George, so the argument that we have a foreign flag on our own flag is getting thinner. I’m glad the Union Jack sits there as a reminder of what Britain could have been with a decent climate and a bit of backbone shown towards its internal enemies.
Posted by Jim Geones on 2006 01 02 at 11:49 PM • permalinkThe funniest thing about this issue is how Malcolm Turnbull has used it to make himself look good (not that there is anything wrong with that!).
1. He expected the council to reject the proposal, and used a local liberal councillor as the proposer to demonstrate that it was not a fascist right wing death beast proposal.
2. Enlisting the support of an indigenous councillor by proposing that an aboriginal flag be also flown.
3. making it clear that he was the backer;
4 including a partial fianancial contribution, but still requiring some minor contribution form the council, to give them a partial, fallback excuse if their real reason doesn’t look good (which also coincidently doesn’t look good), then stepping in to say he will pay the full cost like santa claus.Results:
a) lefty wankers propped because they hate Turnbull and are naturally dhimmi anyway.
b) Monarchist voters wary of Turnbull now think more kindly towards him, who has previously been identified with the republican movement.
c) patriotic voters also think more kindly towards Mr Turnbull, even though he is a filthy rich bastard (perhaps he has recently learnt lessons from how Packer has been treated).
d) the labor councillors in labor dominant Waverely Council have taken a severe hit on their re-election chances, ensuring the local liberal party branch are now happy with the outcome of the acrimonious preselection debate prior to the last election.Long term result: Watch out Costello!
bugger got 1 and 2 mixed up:
should have read:
1. He expected the council to reject the proposal, and used a local liberal councillor as the proposer;
2. Enlisting the support of an indigenous councillor by proposing that an aboriginal flag be also flown to demonstrate that it was not a fascist right wing death beast proposal.Here’s an ode I used to recite many years ago ... still haven’t forgotten it ... anyone else remember it?
Australia, Australia
Land of the waratah and ... dahlia
If yer lands in gaol I’ll bail yer
Australia
Two arms, two hands
Two steely bands
Beneath the Southern Cross I stands
A product of me native lands
A sprig of wattle in me hand
A voice within me cries alound
Australia
You f***** bloody beauty
So up the old red rooster
And more piss!First off, sack the council. Put up the largest Aussie flag and fly it with pride.
Keep the Aboriginal flag for ceremonies connected with their culture. Two flags depict a country divided. One flag for all Australians. And the one we have tells our history. It is a beautiful flag.
And tell Mr turnbull, thanks but no thanks, one flag is ample.It should be obvious why Dominic Wy Kanak an Aboriginal councillor supported the motion. Before he gets too much praise though, it’s worth pointing out he is a deatshit Greens serial pest that has cost Council (on which he serves) hundreds of thousands in legals.
#50/51 Entropy, your analysis is very clever. Turnbull does however give plenty of flags to schools etc, so some (though perhaps not all) of your cynicism might be misplaced. Regardless, there is no question Waverley Council are completely munted. I am reminded of this every time I have to feed a parking meter on the beach over five bucks at 9:30 at night, whilst the streets are filthy and poorly lit. What do Waverley Council actually do with all that money?
As for voting local councils out, does everybody remember the last council election? People were upset and annoyed at compulsorily having to vote for a series of people they’d never heard of, in a political system they were unfamiliar with. Something about wards or other. Can’t remember exactly.
#55, 57 ok, yeah - I forgot you guys are upside down and everything is back-to-front. when viewed from the southern hemisphere the light moves accross the surface of the moon from left to right, whereas viewed from the northern hemisphere it moves from right to left. (no, I didn’t make that up). carry on, everybody
#58 Harold:
The good old days ... we usually recited it (my version, not the chalkies) with a cold can in one hand, a picture of the Queen looking down at us and the flag flying not too far away ... if the American readers find this a bit too uncouth, remember the melody of The Star Spangled Banner is taken from an old drinking song according to the The Straight Dope website ... also got the book More of the Straight Dope here ... enlightening ...I went to school with Malcolm Turnbull, and to Uni with Tony Abbot.
There are only 3 contenders in the foreseeable future for the post of Liberal Leadership and embryonic PM in the post-Howard era : Abbot, Costello (no laughs please), and Turnbull.Abbot’s more human than he used to be, but despite his carefully-cultivated image as Toecutter, lacks the wile of the truly guileful politician. He’s not a natural, he has to work at it (with some success).
Costello I don’t know about, but I expect him to be Howard’s immediate successor.
Turnbull, even at age 15, was a scarily competent Public Speaker. It was obvious then that he was going to be a top polly, Cabinet or PM, one day. he had the background, he had the talent, and his experiences as merchant banker et al since then have honed his instinctive political nous far keener than most realise. He is to debating what Bradman is to cricket, one of the few true talents to come along every century.
My prediction: Costello till he loses his first election, perhaps an interregnum under Abbot in opposition, then Turnbull. And his run will be as long and successful as Howard’s.
Malcolm Turnbull is no dill, being successful academically (Rhodes Scholar), a successful businessman and now a politician ... I’ve probably left a few things out ... but many people would remember him as head of the Australian Republican Movement, and he wouldn’t endeared himself to many conservative voters at the time, although the split for or against wasn’t purely along political lines ... I really look forward to having such a high achiever in high office ... but my big concern is that he has the support of a decent parliamentary party behind him ... the Liberal Party and also the Labor Party tend to wax & wane on having a decent team of politicians to run things, etc ... will he hang around in opposition, if he has to, to achieve the office of, say Prime Minister?
Despite me labelling him as the Republican Malcolm Turnbull, because I still know him that way, I believe he’s a talent worth watching and waiting for ...I was one of the people who emailed Waverley Council to express my disgust at their decision. Here is the reply I received:
Dear D...,
We are not being cowards, because we can resist the fury from various right-wing groups in our society.
Unfortunately the minority groups in question are Anglo-Australian yobbos and Leb-Australian yobbos, and I am glad they are still in a minority. The issue is not about appeasement, it is the protection of all who come to Bondi from the actions of the yobbo minority.
Unlike the false claim by the Telegraph, Council is not ashamed of flying the flag. In fact I told the reporter that Council already flies the national and
aboriginal flags at Council Chambers, but this was conveniently omitted. And also the Bondi Beach surf clubs fly the national flagThe question is why do we need more. Especially when we have the responsibility of helping to ensure the safety of all visitors after the flag was used as
a symbol at the Cronulla riots by both sides. I’m sure if you put yourself in our shoes you would try to take steps to reduce the chance of provoking racial violence at Bondi Beach.I told the reporter the issue could be reconsidered after the heat died down, again this was conveniently omitted.
I’m sure you can see the pattern - it’s in the Telegraph’s interest to generate fury
over the issue because it sells more papers.The other issues that came into the decision were the heritage of the Pavilion and the cost of installing flagpoles and having someone run the flags up and down everyday.
Another very important consideration is that Malcolm Turnbull MP wished to generate
publicity for himself by appealing to jingoism - a common ploy of the right wing to divert attention from the other nasty policies they are pushing, such as curtailing personal freedoms, abusing refugees, removing workplace rights, and reducing the taxes of the rich at the expense of the non-rich.I’m sure you would be interested to know that, in a recent survey done on cultural diversity by the SMH, Waverley was found to be one of the most tolerant council areas, but the council area that Malcolm Turnbull comes from is one of the least tolerant.
I hope this gives you another perspective on the situation.
Thanks, George Copeland, Waverley councillor.
#68 what a despicable toad is George Copeland to maintain that flying our national flag is tantamount to provoking racial violence. [Thunderous indignation] a plague be upon him and the scrofulous councilors of Waverley who support him – they have discredited themselves, their rate payers and this country.
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It’s funny that Islamic bodies are worried about the nonsense practised by lunar leftists - supposedly in their name. Dolts on the Waverley Council might learn a thing or two from the guys at the Islamic Friendship Association about good sense and respect for country.