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ELECTRIC SHOCK

Reason’s Shikha Dalmia reports:

According to Art Spinella, the uber-auto analyst and President of CNW Marketing Research, hybrid sales every month this year have been down compared to the same time last year. Even sales of the Toyota Prius – the darling of the greens – have dropped significantly.

This is bad news for the environment, right? Wrong! Read the whole thing.

UPDATE. Much informed debate in comments. Do click.

Posted by Tim B. on 07/20/2006 at 12:34 AM
  1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Does anyone have Brokaw’s number?

    Posted by saltydog on 2006 07 20 at 12:48 AM • permalink

  2. Stupid!  Its because of global warming that the hybrid sales are down.  People want air conditioning to beat the heat!

    Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 07 20 at 12:48 AM • permalink

  3. What’s an uber-auto and where can I buy one? It sounds cool!

    Posted by blandwagon on 2006 07 20 at 12:51 AM • permalink

  4. For instance, the dust-to-dust energy cost of the bunny-sized Honda Civic hybrid is $3.238 per mile. This is quite a bit more than the $1.949 per mile that the elephantine Hummer costs.

    Hey, you can’t put a price on smug self-satisfaction.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 07 20 at 12:53 AM • permalink

  5. But how can this be, when Newsweek says that this is greening of America--they wouldn’t just manufacture a story out of whole cloth, that they wished to be true would they? Why, they’d risk their whole reputation being flushed down the tubes, like a Koran down a Gitmo toilet!

    Err...wait a second…

    Posted by Ed Driscoll on 2006 07 20 at 12:56 AM • permalink

  6. Awaiting Mother Gaia™ worshiping, Kyoto preaching enviro-nuts to begin their indignant and self-righteous exclamations of outrage over this article in 5, 4, 3, 2, ...

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 20 at 01:05 AM • permalink

  7. If consumers were offered a choice between an old-fashioned carburetted car versus the much more expensive and complex fuel-injected model, the “total cost per mile” would be even lower. A 1974 Chevy Nova, for example, is probably more “economical” in that regard than anything currently on offer, including the Hummer. Does that mean we should all go back to what is basically 1950s technology? Hey, a lot less energy would go into the manufacture of such vehicles.

    The idea that a ridiculous ego-mobile like the Hummer is more “economical” in the long run than a Civic Hybrid and therefore gas-electric hybrids ought to be abandoned is short-sighted, because they are assuming that technology is static and will not advance. 25 years ago, electronic fuel injection and computer engine management was considered foolishly expensive gadgetry that would not only not improve the cars, but were just another way to rip off the car-buying public. (I still hear such claims from a couple of people I know, but they also think they’re being watched by the FBI...) Hybrid technology, and its costs, could very well improve to the point where most new vehicles will use it within a decade or two.

    I personally have no desire to buy one at present because they are not enough of an improvement to justify the additional costs, but that does not mean I never will.

    One last observation: while your typical Hybrid driver is a clueless left-wing dipshit, I’ve never met anyone who drove a Hummer that wasn’t an overbearing asshole.

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 01:17 AM • permalink

  8. There are some astonishing numbers in this report. Perhaps too amazing. The critical numbers here are the lifetimes of the vehicles. Do Hummers really last for 300,000 miles? And is a Prius going to be trashed after 100,000 miles? If these numbers are wrong, the comparison between models falls over.

    Still, even if it is in the right ballpark, it confirms what an engineer told me years ago - that a car will consume more energy in its manufacture and disposal than it ever will in fuel, during its lifetime.

    Car fuel economy has reached a point where improvement will result in diminishing returns. This new technology needs to get cheaper to be worthwhile. Either that or fuel prices have to double again.

    Posted by zscore on 2006 07 20 at 01:36 AM • permalink

  9. One last observation: while your typical Hybrid driver is a clueless left-wing dipshit, I’ve never met anyone who drove a Hummer that wasn’t an overbearing asshole.

    No argument, Spiny, if you modify as follows:

    “I’ve never met anyone who drove a non-military Hummer...”

    ;-)

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 20 at 01:39 AM • permalink

  10. The_Real_JeffS

    “I’ve never met anyone who drove a non-military Hummer...”

    ;-)

    Quite true, which is why I always (try to) refer to the military version as a Humvee.

    ;^)

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 01:47 AM • permalink

  11. :-D

    Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 07 20 at 01:52 AM • permalink

  12. Much as one would like to beieve this report, which I saw a couple of weeks back, Spinella’s report contains life cycle and product use assumptions that are shaky at best.

    Posted by Jack Lacton on 2006 07 20 at 02:13 AM • permalink

  13. I’d be interested to see how diesel powered cars (e.g. Volkswagen TDI) fare in this type of cost analysis.  You can get the fuel efficiency (my dad consistiently got 40+ MPG, even reaching 45 regularly out of commuting with one for several years) minus the sanctimony and the gutlessness (which, as I got to see for myself this weekend at the Utah Grand Prix, the Audi R10 will attest to.)

    Posted by Vexorg on 2006 07 20 at 02:27 AM • permalink

  14. "Even sales of the Toyota Prius – the darling of the greens – have dropped significantly.”

    Tim, you misspelled “Pious”

    Posted by DocMike on 2006 07 20 at 02:30 AM • permalink

  15. Got to agree with Spiny Norman then.  Including high research costs on new technology compared with civilian trucks, not to mention assuming that a Hummer will last three times as long as a Toyota, is kinda silly.

    Oh, and I also agree with him on the characterisation of Prius drivers and Hummer drivers - especially so in Australia where they are both much more expensive than in the US.

    Posted by attilathepun on 2006 07 20 at 02:47 AM • permalink

  16. The same kinda logic applies to solar cells - the production and disposal of the rare-earth elements required is something rarely taken into consideration.

    Although - the <a href ="http://www.originenergy.com.au/environment/template.php?pageid=1257">Sliver Cell</a> technology from the Australian National University looks somewhat promising - much more efficient use of materials.

    (btw hi everyone!!!! my first post to this blog :)

    Posted by the-invigilator on 2006 07 20 at 02:53 AM • permalink

  17. From the Weekly Standard article:
    Hybrids, which typically claim to get 32 to 60 miles per gallon, ended up delivering an average of 19 miles per gallon less than their EPA ratings under real-world driving conditions…

    You mean greenies lie?

    Posted by perfectsense on 2006 07 20 at 03:14 AM • permalink

  18. Any debate on cars and fuel must be deferred to JC

    Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2006 07 20 at 03:18 AM • permalink

  19. I’ve often wondered what would happen when two or more Priusses (Priae?) are involved in a collision.

    See, normal car’s batteries are dangerous and cause arcing in an accident - who knows how much more dangerous 100 volt battery packs would be in this situation.

    Remember, these are hybrids, so there are petrol tanks which can leak and go

    Kaboom

    Posted by Kaboom on 2006 07 20 at 03:26 AM • permalink

  20. Like all of these types of studies the actual results will depend on various assumptions and need to rely on an assessment of technology at a point in time. Like Zscore i thought the 100,000 miles versus 300,000 assumption looked a bit doubtful, but i’m no expert on this.

    Regardless, the overall point that you have to look beyond the fuel consumption of a vehicle and into its manufacture, lifespan and disposal to properly assess its environmental impact is sound and, even if hummers aren’t environmental saviours, the research would suggest that, at the very least, the difference in energy consumption between hybrids and larger non-hybrids is considerably less than the hybrid lobby woud like to have us believe and should reduce peoples’ ability to feel morally superior for owning one.

    If you read the report (which i scanned quickly) you will see that the authors acknowledge that technological change and changes in oil prices will increase the energy efficiency of newer hybrids relative to others. Looking at the correspondence in the report is also predictable. Seems like every second person wanted to know their funding sources!

    and even if the assumptions might be rubbery - boy am i going to have fun at my next dinner party with this one.

    Posted by Francis H on 2006 07 20 at 03:34 AM • permalink

  21. perfectsense

    Hybrids, which typically claim to get 32 to 60 miles per gallon, ended up delivering an average of 19 miles per gallon less than their EPA ratings under real-world driving conditions...

    You mean greenies lie?

    Or the EPA is just wrong.

    However, 32 - 19 = 14 miles per gallon.

    Huh? If a Hybrid only got 14 miles to the gallon, it be pretty big news, wouldn’t you say?

    I know a guy in Crestline, CA who drives a Honda Insight 2-seater and commutes up and down the mountain 5 days a week. He gets a consistant 55 miles to the gallon (EPA-estimated 58 mpg highway, IIRC). A little less, but nothing scandalous.

    I think there must be a flaw in the way the EPA (a US government agency) estimates fuel economy. I’ve always been a bit of a “lead-foot” but have always gotten better fuel mileage than the “EPA highway estimate”. Go figure.

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 03:52 AM • permalink

  22. (btw hi everyone!!!! my first post to this blog :)

    Hi, invigilator!

    Hey, there’s a neat button above the reply box ("Link") that lets you post a linky-doo without having to type in all that HTML stuff. Just be careful if you use those other boxes like “Bold” and “Ital” - always preview in case you goof and end up bolderizing the entire page.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 07 20 at 03:54 AM • permalink

  23. Actually, that’d be “ = 13 miles per gallon”

    *preview is my friend...*

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 03:55 AM • permalink

  24. Just be careful if you use those other boxes like “Bold” and “Ital” - always preview in case you goof and end up bolderizing the entire page.

    ... and get to hear from Mistress Andrea.

    ::whip-crack::

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 03:56 AM • permalink

  25. Well, shaky methodology or not, the Prius still gets worse mileage than an ‘80s Honda CRX HF, and has a giant battery that’s going to be a joy to dispose of.

    Whatever. Hybrids seem like belt’n’suspenders to me.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 07 20 at 03:57 AM • permalink

  26. The 100,000 mile life of the prius prolly has something to do with the life of the batteries.
    Anyway, Mrs Entropy regulary drove one for work, as the good public service health professional she is.  She quite liked it, even though it was a bit unnerving starting off from the lights, quite unlike the corolla sx I got for her (a go kart in sheep’s clothing, I tells ya). 
    But the premium for the prius over an ordinary 4 cylinder car completely negates its possible economy benefits, which in mrs Entropy’s observation, wasn’t that flash anyway (although the qld govt. was picking up the fuel bill, so why drive carefully?).

    Posted by entropy on 2006 07 20 at 04:00 AM • permalink

  27. I caught public transport today. Once again I ahve been convinced of the all important need for soft, quiet air conditioned cars that are heavy enough to push their way thru an intersection crowded with pesky pedestrians.

    Posted by william°­ on 2006 07 20 at 04:09 AM • permalink

  28. an ‘80s Honda CRX HF

    After all these years, Honda still hasn’t convinced American suburbia to embrace the 2-seat commuter car. Discontinued after only 320 sold thus far in 2006, the Insight has now bitten the dust, just like the old CRX… (remember the 600/900 mini-cars of 35 years ago?)

    Apparently a replacement is in the works, bless their hearts…

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 04:09 AM • permalink

  29. I caught public transport today.

    You have my sympathies. When I lived in San Diego, I resorted to public transport once when my car needed a new water pump. Unfortunately, there was no direct route from my home to my work: after transfering from the trolley to a bus, and then to another bus, it took more than 2 hours to go only 11 miles.

    I did that exactly twice before riding a bike until my car was fixed.

    Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 07 20 at 04:18 AM • permalink

  30. Kaboom (quite an appropriate name for this question, BTW!):

    I’ve often wondered what would happen when two or more Priusses (Priae?) are involved in a collision.

    See, normal car’s batteries are dangerous and cause arcing in an accident - who knows how much more dangerous 100 volt battery packs would be in this situation.

    The Newhouse News Service had an article in 2005 titled, “Hybrids Raise Safety Issues for Rescue Crews” that explains some of their dangers. This is how it begins:

    The driver loses control of the car, which careens off the road and flips several times. The driver is trapped inside. But just as rescue personnel are about to slice through the wreckage with the metal-cutting “jaws of life,” they notice the vehicle is a hybrid.

    They pause, wondering if it’s safe to cut into a battery-powered vehicle packing hundreds of volts of electrical current.

    As more and more fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles hit the roads, it is a question emergency crews are confronting with growing frequency.

    Depending on the hybrid model, voltage in the vehicles’ electrical systems can deliver up to 650 volts, enough to cause a serious electrical jolt.

    "It could kill you,” says David Schimmel of the New Jersey State First Aid Council.

    Schimmel, the council’s director of mobilization and disaster services and its lead extrication instructor, says hybrid vehicles are “absolutely” on the radar screen of emergency first responders.

    “We have extrication training and it’s part of that,” he says. “It should be part of any training program."

    Maybe these are the proverbial killer cars that Monty Python warned us about!
    Posted by Ed Driscoll on 2006 07 20 at 04:20 AM • permalink

  31. Environmentalists unite! Buy a Hummer and save the Planet!

    Posted by Bonmot on 2006 07 20 at 04:40 AM • permalink

  32. Bottom line: Prius is a petrol-driven car that costs 30% more than other petrol driven cars.

    In the country the petrol engine runs full time resulting in fuel economy no better than a regular car (probably worse given the weight of the battery pack).  Result: hybrids are uneconomical in Australia and the US where long distance driving is the norm. OK for the UK and Japan where 100kms is a ‘take a packed lunch’ drive.

    Posted by walterplinge on 2006 07 20 at 05:29 AM • permalink

  33. o/t ABC’S P.EM. programme reveals that a demented Brisvegas Theatre Company has decided that “Muslim’s know more about Shakespeare than we do” and is presenting “the moody dame” (Lady Mcbeth??)as a Muslim.
    Good news -a Church of England school in U.K. has refused its students permission to sing the John (I am bigger than God)Lennon song “Imagine” in their school concert becuz it says “and no religion too”.
    Acourse the journo was spitting chips at what he termed “political correctness”.?????
    Ah revenge is sweet.
    And an American golfer/amateur musician was given the finger for appearing at the Cavern in Liverpool and spurning Beatles songs for a Burb Dylan “knocking on heaven’s door”.

    Posted by crash on 2006 07 20 at 05:31 AM • permalink

  34. That was no ordinary American golfer, crash, it was John Daly.

    Posted by slammer on 2006 07 20 at 05:43 AM • permalink

  35. I’ve often speculated that the energy cost of creating and assembling the materials making up a hybrid car would far outweigh that of a conventional car - and go an awful long way towards redressing the total emissions balance in favour of the car powered solely by a regular old internal combustion engine. However, I didn’t factor in the reduced lifespan of the hybrid. This study is very timely and deserves wide circulation.

    Posted by James Waterton on 2006 07 20 at 05:54 AM • permalink

  36. Or mayhap it was a brrooody Dane? Hamlet not Lady MacBeth?
    At noon ABC spent ten minutes(at least)on interviewing a prospective Euro politician -Holland I think was the country...who wants to start a PAEDOPHILE PARTY.
    The ABC interviewer treated him very respectfully,asking him serious questions about whether he thought it was o.k. to have sex with children of twelve or five “yes if it was CONSENSUAL!!!!”
    Dang -I used up all the exclamations..
    Not ONE word did our intrepid ABC presenter say about the moral abhorrence or legal barriers our society would consider normal -against such a shocking plan or political"platform".Your money was used in the making of that programme folks by your public broadcaster.I would have thought even the ABC would not have stooped to such degeneracy but given the degeneracy of their staff -oh wait…

    Posted by crash on 2006 07 20 at 05:56 AM • permalink

  37. Start a protest (or Priutest)!

    GM is ending production of the Hummer H1 (the civilian version of the military Humvee) in favor of the smaller, wankier H2 and H3.

    Posted by arrowhead ripper on 2006 07 20 at 05:59 AM • permalink

  38. #29.
    In Melbourne the method of public transport favored by smug inner-metro public servant types is electric trams, which crawl through the narrow inner streets, usually followed by a long line of frustrated motorists from the outer suburbs.
    Like Prius drivers, tram riders are exporting their pollution, in this case to the Latrobe Valley, a low socioeconomic area where the hugh lignite burning power plants are located.

    Posted by chrisgo on 2006 07 20 at 06:02 AM • permalink

  39. ...the biggest reason why a Hummer’s energy use is so low is that it shares many components with other vehicles and therefore its design and development energy costs are spread across many cars.

    It is not possible to do this with a specialty product like hybrid.

    Well, that’s a bizarre thing to say. Of course it’s possible to do that with a hybrid: If every car GM made but the Hummer were a hybrid, then the Hummer would be the specialty product with incompatible parts. Sure, you’d have to get there first, but in the middle of an article about amortization you’d think that might be considered. If you’re taking the long view, take the long view.

    He’s probably right that hybrids use parts which (standardized or not) are simply more expensive to make, but when somebody throws in an argument as facile as the above, it’s reasonable to take a closer look at the rest.

    The fun thing here is that a standard left-wing refutation would be to accuse him of being funded by the auto-makers in an attempt to “discredit” hybrids, on account of them losing money on the things. But that’s not a hidden agenda. It’s the point.

    Posted by P. Froward on 2006 07 20 at 07:34 AM • permalink

  40. "One of the most perverse things about U.S. consumers buying hybrids is that while this might reduce air pollution in their own cities, they increase pollution – and energy consumption—in Japan and other Asian countries where these cars are predominantly manufactured. “In effect, they are exporting pollution and energy consumption,” “

    But they get to sleep smugly at night so thats all that matters right?

    ‘Toyota Prius is to real car on highway; As tent is to real house in high wind...’

    Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 20 at 07:39 AM • permalink

  41. As others have pointed out, some of the assumptions in the article seems a little over-enthused. A GM product lasting 300,000 miles? Puh-lease. Most of the little bolnde pixies who drive these things put no more than 30 miles a day on them going to the hair salon, anyway.

    But with a slight modification, I think we can all whole-heartedly endorse the slogan at the end:

    Now here’s a catchy slogan for the next Save the Earth campaign: Have you given a Hummer today?
    Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 07 20 at 07:50 AM • permalink

  42. It’ll be interesting to see what effect Subaru’s foray into the Hybrid Hype will have: The theory behind the B9SC sports car is that of a diesel locomotive; a small engine, running at constant speed, turns a generator, which then drives an electric motor, with no large bank of batteries involved.  Should be a lot lower “dust-to-dust” than any other hybrid, and no collision/electrocution factor.

    OTOH, I’d be just as happy with a SMART roadster as a “commuter car”....

    Posted by Challeron on 2006 07 20 at 07:51 AM • permalink

  43. Isn’t a hummer what Kenny gave Howard Stern?

    hint - scroll all the way down

    Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 07 20 at 07:55 AM • permalink

  44. The whole problem with the ‘commuter car’ concept for the States is that no one (with the exception of pasty-skinned concerned urban dwellers, and they won’t buy it either because they don’t friggin’ need a car anyway)wants to have a car that is useless beyond getting to work. If it can’t also hold your wife, kid, labradork, and two sets of golf clubs than why am I going to spend thousands on it?

    Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 07 20 at 08:01 AM • permalink

  45. #39 I think their phrasing is clumsy but i read their statement as emphasising that specialty products can’t spread development and design costs - something that is self-evident. Hybrids are only used as an example of a current specialty car.  As you say it may be in the future that hybrids are the majority model in that case hummers would be the speciality - their point would still hold with regard to specialty vehicles.

    Isn’t the main point anyway that, at the time of the research, the hybrid is the specialty car and that development and design energy costs in the hybrid cars built and sold to date is higher than conventional cars (granting them their other assumptions).

    Reading the report suggests the authors acknowledge that technical change etc could alter their figures but they wouldn’t attempt to predict future trends.

    Posted by Francis H on 2006 07 20 at 08:21 AM • permalink

  46. I never thought hybrids could be any better(if not worse) than normal cars in country driving...over hill and dale at constant speeds lugging the weight of an electric motor and batteries cant be more efficient than the equivalent gas buggy...in the city is a different matter...but they can can drive the hybrids in the country and get supurb mileage by “pulse and glide” ... run the car up to 60 and slowly go down to 40… the elctrics never get charged up and you save that way..

    Posted by embutler on 2006 07 20 at 08:30 AM • permalink

  47. "Still, even if it is in the right ballpark, it confirms what an engineer told me years ago - that a car will consume more energy in its manufacture and disposal than it ever will in fuel, during its lifetime.”

    So by recycling a 30 year old series Land Rover I found in a barn, I am way ahead of the sanctimonious shits in Prius’s, not to mention “carbon neutral” Algore?  Man, I am loving this thread.

    Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 07 20 at 09:41 AM • permalink

  48. The Toyota Prissy — A self-righteous sneer with bumpers.

    Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 07 20 at 10:07 AM • permalink

  49. So a Prius driver is a “sanctimonious shit” driving a “self-righteous sneer with bumpers”? Can we tone down the rhetoric a bit? Statements like the above only inform readers of your emotional immaturity, and add nothing else to the discussion.

    I can see the gears turning in many heads now - “Is Dave in Chicago ‘one of us’ or one of those lefty shits?  Hmmmm, his unwillingness to childishly mock hybrid owners is troubling.  And he has failed to extoll the virtues of owning a wheeled ‘extender’, like an SUV or sports car.  That settles it, he must be a lefty moonbat.”

    Posted by Dave in Chicago on 2006 07 20 at 10:22 AM • permalink

  50. You need a bloody big hammer to crack a Queensland nut, but not much more than a steady squeeze to pop a peanut.

    So… get the right vehicle for the right reasons.

    A prime mover to do some hauling; a three-differential, short wheel base off-roader to check the fire trails; a roomy family sedan to run the kids to school on the way to work; a three cylinder bubble to pick up the dry-cleaning and a CabCharge for nanna.

    What is the problem!!!

    Posted by splice on 2006 07 20 at 10:22 AM • permalink

  51. I think that if you compare a Hummer to a similar product by the same manufacturer with a long history, the Chevy Suburban, there is little reason to doubt at least 250,000 mile lifetime. For the original owner anyway. And the Hummers, like the Suburban, are much less likely to be junked early due to an accident.

    I can’t say anything about the life of a Pious though.

    Posted by moptop on 2006 07 20 at 10:27 AM • permalink

  52. No, I don’t think so, dave in chicago; i just mock those who assume that the car that they think best must be the car that everyone else drives. Here are my two vehicles, a passat and a minivan. i get 30 mpg around town with the pissant, and i can haul most of the contents of my house in the minivan. buy what works for you.

    Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 07 20 at 10:34 AM • permalink

  53. #49 Dave in Chicago:

    Can we tone down the rhetoric a bit?

    Well, at least we haven’t started accusing anybody of being a Cubs fan; that would qualify as hate speech.

    (Note to international readers: Chicago White Sox vs. “Chicago” Cubs=stupid sports team rivalry.)

    Posted by Rob C. on 2006 07 20 at 10:46 AM • permalink

  54. OT

    By the way, for those of us who’ve ever had dreams of Michelle Malkin jumping on a trampoline, go visit her blog :)

    Posted by Dave in Chicago on 2006 07 20 at 10:51 AM • permalink

  55. By the way, for those of us who’ve ever had dreams of Michelle Malkin jumping on a trampoline

    Are you inferring that some of us haven’t?

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 07 20 at 11:15 AM • permalink

  56. #55 - #54 is inferring, not implying.

    Posted by Dan in MD on 2006 07 20 at 12:05 PM • permalink

  57. #52 Mr Bingley, I notice you’ve labelled the jpeg of your wife’s car as “milfmobile.jpg”.

    Whoever said romance was dead hadn’t met you, you big smoothie!

    Keep the passion alive, my friend!  ;-)

    Posted by ekb87 on 2006 07 20 at 01:26 PM • permalink

  58. Hehehe, that was for the car photo contest Iowahawk had a few weeks ago.

    After I got out of the Intensive Care Unit I’m told she didn’t mind too much.

    Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2006 07 20 at 01:57 PM • permalink

  59. By the way, for those of us who’ve ever had dreams of Michelle Malkin jumping on a trampoline

    Are you inferring that some of us haven’t?

    Hm.  I never have.

    Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 07 20 at 02:30 PM • permalink

  60. I know a guy in Crestline, CA who drives a Honda Insight 2-seater and commutes up and down the mountain 5 days a week. He gets a consistant 55 miles to the gallon (EPA-estimated 58 mpg highway, IIRC). A little less, but nothing scandalous.

    I checked out the Honda Insight last time I went car-shopping.  It was basically a kite posing as a car.  Even if I could fit in one, you couldn’t pay me enough to risk my life out on the roads in it.

    I know a couple of people who have Priuses (Prii?) and love them.  Sturdier than the Insight, but still way too small.  Even the Ford Escape hybrid was a bit cramped.  My Toyota Highlander hybrid, on the other hand, I adore.  It’s roomy, it’s quiet, and it handles better than any car I’ve ever driven (and I’ve driven a lot of different ones).  It can go practically anywhere, including some very rough off-road areas I’ve taken it through.  It also gets about 30MPG, which isn’t the 32 EPA estimate, but none of that ‘14MPG less’ silliness.

    Do I recommend a hybrid (Civic, Highlander, Insight, Prius, whatever) for everyone?  No.  Am I a ‘Kyoto-preaching lefty enviro-nut’ or ‘sanctimonious shit’ who thinks she’s better than everyone else because I drive one?  No, again.  I drive what I drive because it’s perfect for me and having a car I genuinely enjoy driving is worth the extra money I spent.  YMMV—literally.

    Posted by Achillea on 2006 07 20 at 02:42 PM • permalink

  61. Rob C—Ever see the parking lot at a Cubs home game?  Looks like a Tokyo traffic jam.

    Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 07 20 at 08:17 PM • permalink

  62. Well OK I over-generalized with the sanctimonious shit crack.  But its an if the shoe fits thing, so don’t be so thin skinned.  The point is, as Achillea has said better than I can, is drive what’s perfect for you.  Don’t tell me what to drive.  When it becomes cheaper to drive (fill in the blank technology) vehicles, by golly that’s what we’ll do!  And not a minute sooner. 

    Also, I can’t figure out why the left hates SUVs so much (other than the elitist aspect).  They loathe oil, so you would think they would love something (like SUVs) that made oil go away faster.  But linear thinking was never their strong suit.

    Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2006 07 20 at 08:35 PM • permalink

  63. #59—RebeccaH, that makes two of us…

    Posted by KC on 2006 07 20 at 09:16 PM • permalink

  64. #54 - OK, Dave, that was The Best Video Clip Ever.

    Posted by Dave S. on 2006 07 20 at 10:23 PM • permalink

  65. So if driving a Pious makes one a ‘sanctimonious shit’ (no arguement here, ever see Curb Your Enthusiasm?), what does my VK Commodore with alloy wheels make me?

    The world is much simpler to understand if you just put everyone into groups and give them labels.  Then you never have to consider the individual.

    Its that whole bit about anything is reasonable in pursuit of the ‘revolution’.  Or as the romans used to say: Exitus acta probat.

    Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 21 at 01:07 AM • permalink

  66. I’d never had fant- er, dreams about Michelle Malkin on a trampoline. But that’s all changed now! Thanks, Dave.

    Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2006 07 21 at 01:34 AM • permalink

  67. #59 and #63, C’mon ladies, dont be so conservative…

    Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 21 at 02:15 AM • permalink

  68. #60—Achillea: My husband just bought an Escape hybrid; he says he’s going to claim it as cover for my Tahoe’s sins of emission.

    Posted by Celaeno on 2006 07 21 at 02:39 AM • permalink

  69. 4WD (SUV) sales defy market trend

    Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 07 21 at 03:51 AM • permalink

  70. I want an atomic powered Hummer with caterpiller tracks, cant wait for it to come out.

    Posted by phillip on 2006 07 21 at 08:25 AM • permalink

  71. I usually keep cars for quite a long time.  (I think my personal record was a family ‘51 Chevy pickup that I kept until 1983.) We had a very nice ‘90 Chevy Beretta that we kept for 13 years at 10,000 miles/yr average, then gave toa brother--m-law (he turned 16) who put on another 25,000 so who then gave it to his older brother and the dickhead blew out the tranny running it at 6000RPM on the Interstate *on the way frickin’ home!! It’s redlined at 6200, as I remember.  Other than that, it was still a decent car.  If you keep them up, I see no reason why a current GM should not last 300,000 miles, or 15+ years or whatever.

    I keep trying to find out how expensive it is to replace (well, and to make) those huge batteries in hybrids.  What does that do to the re-sale value, if you try to re-sell it shortly before the battery is due for replacement.  How much does it take to dispose, properly, of the damn thing?

    Where do we put the used batteries?  They won’t even let me throw out used camera batteries in my town.  Do you get to just set the Prius battery by the curb? Just wonderin’.

    Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2006 07 21 at 12:43 PM • permalink

  72. #68 -

    Now see, that’s real carbon-trading.

    Posted by Achillea on 2006 07 21 at 01:04 PM • permalink

  73. #71 Just goes to prove its how you drive it, not how far.  The clock stopped on my Holden at about 300,000km, thats only 200,000 miles (give or take), this was about 5 years ago now so its getting up there, but I still cant see a rice burner lasting that long on our roads. 

    Here in WOZ a national highway is a two lane road partially covered in sand that gets washed out every two or three years, the roads are not kind to cars.  Oh and normal gas is only 91 octane, you have to flog the motor to get anywhere too.

    Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 22 at 12:12 AM • permalink

  74. To the point of Prius sales—I don’t believe the “declining sales” assertion is true, sorry my Auto News stack is at the office, but there was a table recently showing the sales v. last year. But inasmuch as sales are NOT much higher, that is because and only because of supply limitation, as Toyota has chosen to divert its limited hybrid resources to rolling out the hybrid Camry.

    The Prius remains a huge sellout hit, demand is strong and unmet, and they are universally presold and never to be found sitting on a lot. (Technically they average 4 days in inventory, which is unheard-of, but you can’t actually find one sitting on the lot. Average US Big 3 models run about 80 - 90 days, which sux.) The Hybrid Civic also sees strong demand, always presold, limited only by production.

    What the market shows is that people interested in conservation and hybrids are buying the small cars—NOT the slightly-better-MPG SUVs or the slightly-more-hp-for-an-extra-$7000 Accord. The same crowd is going ape-sh*t over the new economy Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit, BTW.

    Posted by loikll on 2006 07 22 at 12:26 AM • permalink

  75. If its all the same, I’ll stick to a cast iron block and a Holley carburetor, might not be so green, but she be quicker than any hybrid Ive ever seen…

    Posted by The_Wizard_of_WOZ on 2006 07 22 at 01:23 AM • permalink

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