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DENIER DISSED
Poor Frederick Toben. He’s travelled all the way to Tehran for a conference of like-minded Holocaust deniers, only for the New York Times to get his name wrong:
Toben Feredrick, from Australia, said Mr. Ahmadinejad has opened an issue “which is morally and intellectually crippling the Western society.”
“People are imprisoned in Germany for denying the Holocaust,” he added.
People were also executed in Germany for causing the Holocaust, Mr. Toben Feredrick. Sadly, Leunig McHeil—not a Holocaust denier, but nonetheless admired in Tehran—was unable to attend this cosy conference.
(Via Tom R.)
Dr Toben, who likes to argue that Auschwitz had no gas chambers, has brought his own model of the death camp to the conference.
Dr. Toben’s model has me convinced .
Dammit, paco. I just got back from DW this Sunday. Now I wanna go back.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 12 12 at 11:21 AM • permalinkI’m not familiar with the reporter, Pia Akerman, whose article in The Australian is behind the first link, but I have to say I like her style: “Dr Toben hopes to meet Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, for whom denying the Holocaust is a favourite hobby, comparing the former traffic light specialist in diplomatic stature to the Queen.” Hilarious!
But-but I thought it was affluent nations that weren’t having enough babies?!? (Head goes *pop*)
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 11:29 AM • permalinkArgh! My comment belongs on the previous post!
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 11:32 AM • permalinkYou have got to be kidding. I’ve only made one pilgrimage to Disney World, back when my eldest was about five years old, but it’s the kind of thing memories of which still leave me shaking like a malaria victim. I’m glad you enjoyed your experience, though.
The secret, Paco, is to go off-season. During the summer you can’t move because of the crowds, the temperature is pushing 100F with 100% humidity, and the lines are miles long. I’ll probably be forced to go again during the summer, but it won’t be enjoyable.
Off season, though—the weather that’s “frigid” for the locals is 50-60F, the crowds are thin enough you can get around the parks quickly, and the lines are so short you can almost walk right onto whatever ride you want.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 12 12 at 11:54 AM • permalinkNobody goes to Disney World during the summer. It’s too crowded.
Posted by Brian O'Connell on 2006 12 12 at 12:11 PM • permalink#9 Rob: I think you’re right, and that was our strategy, too, but it turned out that the week we went (unbeknownst to us) was also the week Florida Power & Light had arranged for dicounted tickets for their employees, so it was pretty crowded. I don’t know who was keeping the electricity flowing that week; looked like every FP&L employee from VP’s to linemen to secretaries were there.
#7 Andrea
Argh! My comment belongs on the previous post!
Even the Admin makes that goof. Wow! Thank you so much, I don’t feel so lame anymore.
;^)
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2006 12 12 at 12:34 PM • permalink#7 Andrea Harris, Administrator -
Argh! My comment belongs on the previous post!
(yes, that’s twice now. Operation Gaslight is going smoothly. now I’ll post a sensible comment as Miranda Divide. maybe an admission of being completely wrong. her head will swoon and she’ll confine herself to bed rest for weeks. then I’ll install my puppet as the new administrator. then we’ll see some real banning that not even Athingamajig could deny. where’s my book? yes, paco first, then underscore)Posted by wronwright on 2006 12 12 at 01:20 PM • permalink(Puts red “priority” checkmark next to wronwright’s name on List.)
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 01:26 PM • permalink** Top Secret **
Banning List—Work in Progress:
1. paco—> note, transport with Iowahawk (wiggles index finers in wriggly motion) toJuneauAnchorageNomePoint Barrow, Alaska2. 1.618—> she’s got to go with paco, all packed up with her sparklie dust. Maybe she can cover paco and IH with sparklie dust for good luck before they go out to hunt a caribou for supper.
3. Underscore—> he will regret his statements of non-support!
4. Margo Kingston—> send certified letter officially informing her of decision to preemptively ban her from Tim Blair’s site, get video footage of reaction. Transport to Point Barrow, Alaska with latest line of Victoria Secret baby doll nities.
5. Howard Dean—> Tell him he’s on probational banning, notwithstanding the fact that he never registered. Tell him that could change if we hear another AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR at a Democratic Party function.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 12 12 at 01:55 PM • permalinkAndrea wrote:
Argh! My comment belongs on the previous post!
Sad thing is, these two posts are related. Just different motivations for genocide.
Posted by Patrick Chester on 2006 12 12 at 02:41 PM • permalinkBoy, those Iranians better look out when the Democrats take over in January.
#4 paco -
I’m not familiar with the reporter, Pia Akerman, whose article in The Australian is behind the first link, but I have to say I like her style:pssst paco - its Piers Ackerman and he’s a he. Worth knowing as he would fit right in here.
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 12 12 at 05:29 PM • permalinkAccording to world’s greatest blog Dear Leader has been to the Iran recently…(see comments)
Songun blog is a most excellent source of true information, but I cannot confirm the status of that one.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 12 12 at 06:18 PM • permalinkKKK’s David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews
Fox NewsWell of course not David. The Jews were gagged by strips of white robes, everyone knows that…just ask..Mahmoud Ahmadinejad OR you can ask, your buddy Senator Robert (Kleagle) Byrd, (Dem. West Virginia)
Besides, there were so few killed…I mean, come on, huh?
I think freedom of speech is not absolute, but that people should be allowed to debate the Holocaust. It bugs me that after 2000 years, people are pressured into denying the historical role of the Jewish people in the death of Jesus Christ - recall the pressure put on Mel Gibson to remove that connection from his gore-fest, The Passion.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 12 at 06:52 PM • permalink# 34 - margos maid. Thanks for the link to the dear leader lover site. Did anyone check out down the page at the pic and this brilliant bit of paedophile brilliance -
HEY, AMERICANS, YOU SHOULD LEARN A LOT FROM OUR NORWEGIAN FRIENDS WHO ARE HAVING REALLY GOOD TIME WITH NORTH KOREAN YOUNG SCHOOL BOYS.
Posted by surfmaster on 2006 12 12 at 07:29 PM • permalinkHey cool, i worked out the italics thingy….........
Posted by surfmaster on 2006 12 12 at 07:30 PM • permalinkwell i’m convinced- if such sterling chaps as toben and Amadhimmlerjad say the holocaust didn’t happen then they should be given the benefit of the doubt.
did they let dave ‘obergruppenfuhrer’ irving out for the big shindig?
just leaves the small question of how europe managed to mislay six million people.
Have they checked behind the sofa?
Posted by eeniemeenie on 2006 12 12 at 07:35 PM • permalink#34 Rebecca - I wish I was that good.
Having looked carefully at these blogs and particularly the sites they link to - often using information from official north korean sources, I believe that they are genuine, and are in fact, the most bizarre artefacts on the internet.
If someone has set them up as a parody, then I dips me lid to them.
Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 12 12 at 07:54 PM • permalinkAndrea—If you want, I’ll put you in the Cabal’s address book to receive the monthly ShitList updates. Hint: Pelosi, Hastert, Frist, Ahmedinajad, Al-Sadr, and 95 entries for the initials WW…
Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 12 12 at 09:21 PM • permalinkI think freedom of speech is not absolute, but that people should be allowed to debate the Holocaust. It bugs me that after 2000 years, people are pressured into denying the historical role of the Jewish people in the death of Jesus Christ - recall the pressure put on Mel Gibson to remove that connection from his gore-fest, The Passion.
What the fuck does one thing have to do with the other? There is nothing to fucking “debate” about the Holocaust—what, whether it was “good” or not that 6 million Jews were killed because of the “historical role of the Jewish people in the death of Jesus Christ”? Whether it really happened at all?
I mean really, what the fuck is there to debate? Are Christians supposed to treat the Crucifixion as a gang slaying of their leader and go out for revenge? Is that it? Is that your problem? Are you so ignorant that you don’t know that the Nazis rejected Christianity in favor of their distorted pagan fantasies, so your little diatribe about Jews and their “role” in Jesus’ death meant fuck-all?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 09:38 PM • permalinkThese iranians are out and out fucktards, this link says it all?link
Posted by surfmaster on 2006 12 12 at 10:06 PM • permalink#43 - Hey, calm down. You’ll bust something. I meant what I said. I don’t think that there should be many taboo subjects - that is, ones that can’t be debated. I think the Holocaust can be debated, and Germany has admitted and apologised for its mass psychosis. And will continue to do so for generations.
I repeat that it bugs me that - and there was a lot of publicity about this at the time - that Gibson had to take out references to jewish people in the movie. To water down a 2000 year historical truth. It seems like an appalling double standard to me. That a 50 year old truth has to be admitted, but a 2000 year truth has to be danced around.
.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 12 at 10:12 PM • permalinkI’m all for letting people debate the Holocaust.
Because as soon as the words are out of their mouth, you can play, “Pin the tail on the nutjob”.
It’s a much faster method for sorting the loonies from the normal people than engaging in hours of useless conversation.
Posted by mr creosote on 2006 12 12 at 10:31 PM • permalinkI agree with another commenter who said all topics should be free to be debated. But those who hold onto idiotic positions should be subjected to ridicule and scorn.
Posted by wronwright on 2006 12 12 at 10:32 PM • permalinkAlthough it confounds me that anyone could believe the Holcaust never happened (I recall the parents of Jewish friends having numbers on their arms, guess according to Holocaust deniers, they did the tatts themselves!), I dont agree with jailing Holocaust deniers.
Let them present their models and give their speeches. Extreme beliefs that do not take reality into account invariably end up by embarrassing themselves.
History proves that words and ideas are much more dangerous than knives and guns… In their political careers, Hitler, Stalin and Mao may have physically killed one or two people, but the overwhelming majority of the tens of millions that died did so becoz people internalised their philosophies and prejudices and acted on them…
Loonies with guns may be able to kill a few people at a postal facility or in a school shooting, and we regulate guns, but millions can die becoz people are swayed to believe an ideal and we say well lets just tolerate/accept any horsesh!t… I’m not as detached as many here… Not a big Volatire fan…
I’m also not a relativist who is so choked by indecision that i can’t tell a good argument/debate from a potentially rank/destructive one and so fall back on the view that everyone has the right to say what they want and just switch of the tv or something if you don’t want to hear/see something… The million or so that died in Rwanda weren’t killed by a couple of fruit loop ring leaders, but were goaded into it via listening to propaganda that went out over the radio in a coodinated orgy of mass slaughter….
In which case i support, and would be quite prepared to step in and ban some topics that are beyond question wrong, and that have demonstrably led to violence in the past… These sort of scum can out themselves as they often do becoz of their over inflated ego’s that all the rest of us are dupes and they no the REAL truth, then they can be come down on like a ton of friggin’ bricks and use this experience to reflect on their world views!!!!
boxofmatches: do you even know what “debate” means? Hint: it does NOT mean “discuss” or “mention.”
As for your bringing up the Passion of the Christ in your attempt to give some sort of propriety to your bizarre arguments, I say this: considering Gibson’s rather checkered history re: anti-semitism, I’m beginning to think that it was rather a good thing that he was asked to tone down any scenes in his film that may have looked to be reviving the old “Jews killed Christ!” slander. And as no Christian is supposed to believe that it was all the Jews’ fault anyway, I don’t know why you would object to such scenes, if they did exist, being removed or altered.
Oh and by the way, thanks for the patronizing “calm down little lady” bullshit. It really endears me to commenters when they pull that one out of their hats.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 10:54 PM • permalink#50 - Where did I say “Little lady”? I’m searching. And would you rather I get hot and bothered and respond with cursing of my own?
In Schindler’s List, did the producers make up some nation that was doing the brutalising? They didn’t, nor should they. I think it is clear double standards.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 12 at 11:10 PM • permalinkBoxomatches - I don’t hear of any jew denying the crucifixion. But they have an interest in playing it down due to what they’ve copped for centuries. If some nazi admits the holocaust took place, no one is going to go out and massacre nazis. But if jews are portrayed as being responsible, there are a lot of anti-semetics who will simply use it as an excuse to reinforce their hatred and we all know what that leads to. If they could admit it without the consequences they have had to endure in the last couple of thousand years, that would be ideal. But we all know that’s not going to happen. If playing down but not denying the 2000 year old truth helps them to avoid 50 year old truths from happening on more frequent basis, then I think that’s fair enough.
#51 - EvilK - well put, I can see what you say.
Although, sometimes, putting ideas underground increases their power and allure. I’ll give an example, it is probably not apt. Someone will tell me if it isn’t. An acqaintance recently excitedly told me of his part of a huge rally in London in the past. The issue was a shop openly selling ultra right wing stuff - real ugly nazi stuff. The rally marched to the shop, smashed it and they put “the nazis out of business”. And this guy was telling me what a great job they had done. Apart from the fact that the irony of the act escaped this guy, I wondered if the expulsion of the shop only added fuel to the fire.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 12 at 11:48 PM • permalinkOh for God’s sake, another stupid one in the mix. For the ten billionth time, there was no “2000 year old” truth to “play down.” Jews did not kill Jesus, EVERYONE did. ROMANS. PHARISEES. GREEKS. SINNERS. This is the “plot,” if you will, of the “Jesus story.” There is no excuse for not knowing this even if you believe the Bible to be a lot of made-up stuff and the Jesus story to be a bunch of fantastical hoo-hah. It’s not exactly a secret; references on the internet abound, and surely some of you have had to learn how to research a thing or two.
Anyway, when it comes to the notion of Holocaust “debate.” That is a weasel term that uses the willful ignorance of the populace on what a “debate” constitutes, which you, boxofdampmatches, have so ably demonstrated. These so-called “debaters” have nothing new or insightful to say about the Holocaust—instead they claim that it either didn’t happen, or that the figures of the numbers of the dead were “lies.” This is worse than actually killing Jews, by the way—it’s claiming they never existed in the first place. All those homes and businesses and destroyed villages? What homes and businesses and destroyed villages? All those people in safe countries whose extended families in Europe vanished into nothingness? You never had those extended families, stop lying. And so on and so forth. The fact that anyone will give the filth that spouts this sewage the time of day says volumes about the degeneration of our society. As far as I am concerned Holocaust-denier-coddlers are worse than Holocaust deniers, because everytime the denier gets slapped down by the truth the coddlers are their mealymouthing “But—but—you must let them have their freedom of speech! There could be something to what they say!” Go to hell.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 11:48 PM • permalinkAnd excuse me if I can’t squeeze a real tear out for the poor proprietor of the Nazicrap store. Anyone who sets up a shop like that is doing it to deliberately provoke. You reap what you sow.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 12 at 11:51 PM • permalinkNow what the fuck are you talking about?
What the hell, did everyone take their Stupid pill and their Obtuse pill together today?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 13 at 12:13 AM • permalink#58 - I meant to say - I give UP. You are right.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 13 at 12:26 AM • permalinkWhat Andrea said.
Don’t be so stupid. What is there to debate about the Holocaust? (1) it happened or it didn’t? (2) not quite so many Jews were murdered as has generally been reported?
Fuck’s sake, there’s no debate whatsoever. The other side of the “debate” is denial.
Start your own blog, boxof, if you wish to propagate arguments that I, and others, find deeply offensive. That’s freedom of speech for you.
#61 - I thought that I was on topic. Sorry I hurt your feelings, petal.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 13 at 12:34 AM • permalink#54 Apologies Andrea. You are indeed correct. What I meant was that jews tend to be wholly blamed for the crucifixion like they are accused of making matzah with christian blood. Such portrayal is false. However, in the case of the jews, such portrayal leads to very real consequences for them especially more than any other group and thus they rightly should seek to defend their portrayal as such even if through some censorship.
ThePirateKing and boxofmatches, separate but same:
1. Feckless
a. Lacking purpose or vitality; feeble or ineffective.
b. Careless and irresponsible.2. Gormless
-Lacking intelligence and vitality; dull.“I thought I was on topic.” On topic perhaps, but you missed the ‘thinking’ bit by a certain margin. And your excuse for ostentatious coyness is?
Cheers
Posted by J.M. Heinrichs on 2006 12 13 at 01:11 AM • permalinkboxofmatches
Before I start, I’m an atheist.
Ok.
To say that it’s legitmate to instigate and engage in what amounts to a false debate (ie the outcome is predetermined) about the nature and effects of the Holocaust because of the Jews’ alleged collective role in the death of Christ is the most stupid fucking thing I have heard in a long time.
Send me your bank account details so I can buy you a one way ticket to Tehran. You. Fucking. Idiot.
‘To say that it’s legitmate to instigate and engage in what amounts to a false debate (ie the outcome is predetermined) about the nature and effects of the Holocaust because of the Jews’ alleged collective role in the death of Christ is the most stupid fucking thing I have heard in a long time.’
That sentance doesn’t even make sense, Pal. Try harder.
Posted by boxofmatches on 2006 12 13 at 03:09 AM • permalinkThe last paragraph of the Australian article:
In August, Tehran staged an international contest of cartoons on the Holocaust, in a typical overreaction to the publication in Danish papers last September of controversial caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.
Surely the typical overreaction was to burn some embassies, and saw a few heads off. Holding a cartoon contest seemed rather atypical to me…
When some fool denies the holocaust, he shouldn’t be jailed. He should be ridiculed. Freedom of speech should be taken more seriously in Europe
My proposal is that any holocaust denier who gets TV time should be countered by an equal time of concentration camp footage. Piles and piles of corpses accompanied by dead silence.
I find the european approach to free speech scary, especially when you ask if any other speech needs to be banned. They always seem to think of more.
Posted by Col. Milquetoast on 2006 12 13 at 06:36 AM • permalinkHey! I just came in at the end here, but I’d like to join murph in saying a big ‘get fucked’ to boxofmatchespirateking.
A nice combination of patronising carelessness and deliberate moral equivalence, we haven’t seen in a while. But wait! The Russian judge has only given 2/10!
Posted by Stop Continental Drift! on 2006 12 13 at 07:33 AM • permalinkboxofmatches isn’t the same guy as PirateKing. He’s commented normally here before. His problem seems to be an ignorance that’s all too common these days about the Holocaust and Judeo-Christian history in general, not malice.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2006 12 13 at 11:42 AM • permalinkGiven that Jesus was found guilty of a Roman crime, tried and sentenced by Roman authorities, and then executed in a purely Roman manner (ie crucifixion - the Roman punishment for insurrectionists - under Jewish law, a blasphemer would be stoned), I find it very difficult to get the “Jews did it!” argument, as it seems to have been entirely developed during Christianity’s history purely to absolve mainstream Romans of any guilt.
Being of Italian descent, let me say we did it, and we’d do it again!
Mwahahahaha!
Posted by Quentin George on 2006 12 14 at 05:45 AM • permalink
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This Fere-dick arsehole could do with a damn good thrashing, just like the load of scum he is consorting with over there…
Why do we have to let this prick back in, let him stay over with his sh!t-for-brains mates….