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JUST LET YOURSELF BE ROBBED
Our dear old friend Lindsay Beyerstein reveals her Democrat defence strategy:
If you’re already getting burglarized, do you really want to add to your problems by confronting a desperate criminal with your own loaded weapon?
I would say I’ll be adding to his problems, not mine.
Posted by Mr. Bingley on 2007 03 14 at 09:54 AM • permalinkI’m just noting that strung-out junkies at gunpoint are at least as likely to do something stupid as your average person.
In my home, if they’re at gunpoint, and do something stupid, then they’re down with a hole in them. My bigger worry is cleaning their blood off my new carpet.
The cardinal rule of self-defense: if you pull a weapon, any weapon, use it. Waving a pistol around like a fan is worse than not having one. The intruder will know you won’t fire….and take it from you.
Seriously. Beyerstein has a point, but it’s ass backwards. If you don’t want a weapon in your home for self defense, don’t get one, and take other measures. If you do want or have one, expect to shoot someone. It’s that simple.
Weapons are not amulets that ward off criminals (which is what Beyerstein seems to think), they are a tool which must be used properly.
But Beyerstein is too clueless to realize this. And she prefers to roll over when attacked. I hope would-be burglars don’t read her posts, and realize that they just found some easy meat.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 09:57 AM • permalinkTwit. According to her I don’t need a gun, I just need insurance. Has anyone ever heard of this Resurrection Insurance she seems to allude to?
I’m with TRJS, if you own a weapon learn how to use it properly and be prepared to use it when necessary. I too subscribe to the old adage that the only reason you point a firearm at someone is when you intend to kill them.
And remember, ALWAYS double-tap on the objective.The cardinal rule of self-defense: if you pull a weapon, any weapon, use it. Waving a pistol around like a fan is worse than not having one. The intruder will know you won’t fire….and take it from you.
1. Shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is murder in nearly every jurisdiction, even if he has just broken into your house. You usually don’t have a duty to retreat, but you are obliged not to act as judge and executioner. Most unarmed burglars when confronted with a weapon will back off and try to flee.
2. Unless you’re extremely close to the intruder, the odds of his taking the weapon from you are small—except in the movies. Don’t let him get that close.
3. If you’re “Waving a pistol around like a fan” you’re a menace to yourself and others and shouldn’t own one.
Posted by Bruce Rheinstein on 2007 03 14 at 10:13 AM • permalinkIf you’re already getting burglarized, do you really want to add to your problems by confronting a desperate criminal with your own loaded weapon?
... God, sometimes I just can’t stand the left.
I wonder how this author would feel about the saying, “If you’re going to be raped, just lie back and enjoy it.” Don’t fight back! You might make the rapist angry and he’ll kill you instead of just assaulting you.
#6 Bruce 1. Shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is murder in nearly every jurisdiction, even if he has just broken into your house. You usually don’t have a duty to retreat, but you are obliged not to act as judge and executioner. Most unarmed burglars when confronted with a weapon will back off and try to flee.
I thank God I don’t live where ever it is that you live. If Mr Numbnutz Home Intruder makes the conscious decision to break into my home, I am completely within my rights to defend my home, whether he is armed or not. And I won’t hesitate to do so. This individual accepted this risk the moment he broke inside my home. There is no such thing as duty to retreat when it comes to home defense where I come from.
Fortunately where I live the law allows you to assume someone who has forcibly broken into your home is not there to sell magazine subscriptions. Chasing them *out* of your home and gunning them down in the street is still considered a social faux pas and frowned on.
I took a very good handgun class which (in addition to target drills) went over the legal aspects. An attackers intent, ability, opportunity and what a Reasonable and Prudent Person (tm)would think if on the receiving end made up the burden of proof. Self-defense is not murder.
Posted by bad cat robot on 2007 03 14 at 10:36 AM • permalinkIf you’re already getting burglarized, do you really want to add to your problems by confronting a desperate criminal with your own loaded weapon?
Obviously Ms. Beyerstein hasn’t considered the possibility that the burglar (already proven to be violent by his propensity to break into occupied homes) might be looking at his third strike (life in prison) and might just kill you to avoid being identified. I’d rather explain myself to the police than be lying dead on the floor.
Or as the old saying goes, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” If someone breaks into my house, I presume they’re not there to sell Girl Scout cookies, and I’ll give them one fair warning (rack a shell into the chamber) before I kill them.
Period.
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 03 14 at 10:49 AM • permalink“I was in fear of of my life, Constable”
“I want to co-operate, Detective, but I was in fear of my life, and I don’t think I should say anything until I speak with a lawyer”
“I was in fear of my life, Your Honour”
Case dismissed.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 03 14 at 10:51 AM • permalinkIf you’re already getting burglarized, do you really want to add to your problems by confronting a desperate criminal with your own loaded weapon?
Is this a trick question?Mr. Rheinstein, I don’t know where you live, but pretty much everywhere here in the good ol’ U.S. of A., that scenario isn’t murder. It is called self-defense.
1) I have no idea if the burglar is armed with any sort of weapon, and I’m not going to wait or ask politely to find out.
2) I do have a right to protect me & mine—even unto including “stuff.” I have worked for it and for someone to just come in and take it is no different than him coming in and stealing my labor.#15 “gun free Australia”
Bwahahahahahaha.
Sorry Olrence, nothing personal, just back from Queensland :-)
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 03 14 at 10:59 AM • permalinkThe law does vary according to jurisdiction. In England right now you have no right to defend yourself with a gun, no matter what.
This is a poor idea (he said with understatement).
In normal parts of the world if someone breaks into your house you can use deadly force to stop him. If the cops find him slumped over dead halfway through the broken window there will be more of an investigation, a lot more questions.
If you invite someone in your house, then get into an argument with him and end up shooting him - which occurs more often than you’d think - then there will be a big investigation and possible jail time.There is really no way of telling what the intentions are of someone who breaks into your house while you are at home. Most burglars prefer empty houses, to avoid confrontations with the resident. If a burglar enters an occupied home, all bets are off. Does the burglar intend harm to you or your family members? Is he there just to steal, or would he rape, murder or otherwise terrorize people in the home? Do you really want to depend upon the goodwill of someone who breaks into your home?
Posted by Mystery Meat on 2007 03 14 at 11:11 AM • permalinkLindsey is what’s known as free rider. She lives in relative safety because many would not act as she recommends. I’ve captured a burglar with my shotgun, stopped a beatdown outside my house with a baseball bat, and run over a bicycle thief with my truck, but that’s just how we roll in east Dallas.
Bruce,
Texas Bob is right. I don’t know where you live, but don’t break into a house in Texas unless you’re willing to risk being shot.Aim true and make sure the Bozo’s dead. If he lives, he’ll sue!
Posted by nofixedabode on 2007 03 14 at 11:30 AM • permalinkOlrence and Pedro,
How’s that gun thing working in OZ?? Stopped all the gun crime yet?
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 03 14 at 11:46 AM • permalinkIn the great gun grab after Port Arthur, Queensland was found to be one of the states that strangely did not seem to wish to comply with the new law that all “weapons of mass destruction” such as self loading pea rifles and 50 year old pump shotguns be surrendered to the police and compensated with a nominal sum of dollars.
The main reason appeared to be that unlike most of the other states, Queenslanders were not required to register their firearms by type and serial number, and consequently those who felt that this was not the greatest law ever passed through Parliament, respectfully declined to surrender their firearms and started digging holes in the back paddock.
There comes a time when stupid laws are ignored by law abiding citizens.Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 03 14 at 11:47 AM • permalinkNaturally, Old Tanker, the Men of No Appearance and other assorted criminals are totally disarmed and the number of reported incidents of armed robbery etc. has been drastically reduced since the implementation of restricted ownership of guns. A total success, and a model for the rest of the world.
Somebody forgot to tell the criminals, however.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2007 03 14 at 11:59 AM • permalink“If you’re really getting raped, do you really want to add to your problems by annoying a desperate criminal with your own protestations?”
Ol’ Lindsay probably thinks those old ladies in Queens who got mugged must have done something to deserve it.
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2007 03 14 at 12:13 PM • permalink#30
Exactly - if you live here in Britain you can add a new last line to #17:
“But Bubba, I was in fear of my life! No Bubba, don’t! AAARRGGHH!”
Graphic, but with an element of truthiness.
Posted by Don Charleone on 2007 03 14 at 12:35 PM • permalinkThe point made above about risk is exactly right. British criminals have almost no disincentive to rob houses, even if someone’s at home.
I was burgled a few weeks ago while out of the country. They may have noticed that my lights hadn’t come on for a while, or they may have just decided to chance it anyway. Let’s face it, why wouldn’t they?
Best case scenario they get some good stuff. My particular visitor only got some change and a couple of expired credit cards, since my door was dead-locked and they had to exit back out through the window.
Worst-case scenario they get beaten up, do some community service, and sue the now-imprisoned householder for their injuries.
Posted by Don Charleone on 2007 03 14 at 12:41 PM • permalinkAmerican Rifleman magazine has a monthly page of incidents where armed citizens have squelched robbery, rape and mayhem.
Many are burglaries, and in most cases the perp is captured and turns out to be on drugs and/or parole.
Lindsay The Forgetful might mis-place her gun, but I have practiced getting mine in pitch darkness, and I never fail to find it first try.
Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2007 03 14 at 12:48 PM • permalink“Keeping a gun at home to protect against robbers seems like an especially silly idea in a big city where the police can arrive at the scene in less time than it takes to open your gun safe, load your gun, and confront the burglar.
Either her arthritis keeps her from opening her gun safe in less than 20 minutes or she lives inside the local police precinct.
“Texas Bob is right. I don’t know where you live, but don’t break into a house in Texas unless you’re willing to risk being shot.”
Same thing in California. At least it’s the same thing at my house.
Posted by Dave Surls on 2007 03 14 at 12:54 PM • permalink1. Shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is murder in nearly every jurisdiction, even if he has just broken into your house. You usually don’t have a duty to retreat, but you are obliged not to act as judge and executioner. Most unarmed burglars when confronted with a weapon will back off and try to flee.
What jurisdictions are you talking about? What country?
Most US States have what is called the “Castle Doctrine” - as in a person’s home is his/her castle and may be defended. Here in FL we’ve moved to a “Stand Your Ground Doctrine” - which basically means that even outside the home, a citizen is under no obligation to attempt to retreat before using lethal force in self-defense. Now if we could only get Louisiana’s civilized liquor laws, it would be paradise.
#42, Adjustment of the Rheinstein (#6) Reality Rules
Rule 1. Shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is murder in nearly every jurisdiction, even if he has just broken into your house. You usually don’t have a duty to retreat, but you are obliged not to act as judge and executioner.Rule 2. Unless you’re extremely close to the intruder, the odds of his taking the weapon from you are small…. Don’t let him get that close.
Rule 3. To Keep him from getting that(?) close, ignore Rule 1 and execute the Bastard.
Things to Do in London When You’re Defenceless
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2007 03 14 at 02:07 PM • permalink“Here in FL we’ve moved to a “Stand Your Ground Doctrine” - which basically means that even outside the home, a citizen is under no obligation to attempt to retreat before using lethal force in self-defense.”
Maybe that’s why FL is the only state to have its own special Fark tag.
“Now if we could only get Louisiana’s civilized liquor laws, it would be paradise.”
As a reader of Fark, I’m all for this too. Especially since I don’t live there.
Seriously, though, I can see requiring people to at least try to de-escalate before resorting to lethal force. For me, yelling “HANDS UP! I GOT A GUN!” counts. It doesn’t take much time or effort to yell it, and if the guy does anything other than put his hands up or run like hell (including turning to see where I’m at), they get to eat lead. Like better folks than me have said, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Posted by Tatterdemalian on 2007 03 14 at 02:25 PM • permalink#47 Tatterdemalian;
“Here in FL we’ve moved to a “Stand Your Ground Doctrine” - which basically means that even outside the home, a citizen is under no obligation to attempt to retreat before using lethal force in self-defense.”
Maybe that’s why FL is the only state to have its own special Fark tag.”
Which implies what, other than a chance for some Fark-ish humor?
The fact that Florida’s violent crime rates dropped, and faster than the rest of the country, after they adopted their current CCW permit system doesn’t seem like a bad thing.
Seriously, though, I can see requiring people to at least try to de-escalate before resorting to lethal force. For me, yelling “HANDS UP! I GOT A GUN!” counts. It doesn’t take much time or effort to yell it,
Which is pretty much what you get, repeatedly, as part of the curriculum of CCW permit classes in those states that allow them.
Beats believing anything you learn from tv and the movies.
I agree that “12 is better than 6”, but expect to be financially ruined in the legal aftermath, particularly after the civil suit later brought against you by the “innocent” ex-criminal’s “bereaved” family. Even so, beats being dead.
I just found out that in Roanoke, Virginia some moron named Christian Trejbal published a “Sunshine” article last weekend that had a database of every concealed carry holder here.
Go to Misha’s site for the full info. I’m boiling. Thank heavens I haven’t gone for mine yet.
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 03 14 at 02:51 PM • permalinkKeeping a gun at home to protect against robbers seems like an especially silly idea in a big city where the police can arrive at the scene in less time than it takes to open your gun safe, load your gun, and confront the burglar.
So, in Lindsay’s big city, the police arrive just as you’re hanging up from your 911 call? What city is this, because that is a flat-out amazing response time. I should think that most people who need to protect themselves from B&E don’t sleep with their guns locked in the gun safe. Silly twat.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 03 14 at 02:57 PM • permalinkBeyerstein lives in Los Angeles, in the Jack Bauer universe.
Posted by Jim Treacher on 2007 03 14 at 03:13 PM • permalinkThings to Do in London When You’re Defenceless…
Just lie back and think of England Dear!Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2007 03 14 at 03:25 PM • permalinkThis Lindsey However’s idea of “the best photo” of the war” seems off too.
Michael Yon’s is betterApologies to The Eagles,
Long Distance Dedication to L. Beaverstein.
To the tune of “Victim of Love”
“I heard about you and that man
There’s just one thing I don’t understand
Your situation is dire and you show him your ire
How come he’s still got his gun in his hand?Victim of crime, I see a bleeding heart
You got your stories to tell
Victim of crime, its such an easy part
And you know how to play it so well”Posted by joe bagadonuts on 2007 03 14 at 03:36 PM • permalinkI can retrieve a loaded gun in my home faster than I can speed-dial 911, let alone wait for the po-po to arrive.
Sounds like the philosopher needs some practice with emperical results.
Posted by Ernst Blofeld on 2007 03 14 at 03:49 PM • permalinkNear-instantaneous police response is guaranteed if you move next to a donut shop.
Posted by Crispytoast on 2007 03 14 at 03:54 PM • permalink#50 Elizabeth,
The IDIOT in Roanoke likened it to having a public sex offender registry. Never mind that sex offenders are CONVICTED F@#ING FELONS…..
The paper took the online database down. Some people complained that they had to move several times already because of violent former spouses (also why they have the gun) and now they would have to move again. Christian was, of course, unapologetic….go figure….
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 03 14 at 03:59 PM • permalinkFound it, the Roanoke IDIOT I wonder if his address is public?
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 03 14 at 04:09 PM • permalinkHey, criminals! Want to make money fast? Follow these easy steps!
1. Find out where Lindsay Beyerstein lives.
2. Kick her door down, rush in and tie her up. **No resistance, guaranteed!**
3. Take whatever you would like. She’s probably got lots of cool stuff.
4. PROFIT!However, if like most asshole lefties she lives in a secure high-rise with armed doormen, you’ll need to wait until she leaves her apartment and settle for her wallet.
Old Tanker: Yeah, I know. I hope there’s a class action suit against the moron and the paper. I read the comments; at least two women have had to pack up and run again to get away from abusive ex’s. Made me livid at the callousness of dear Christian, because I have had personal experience.
I had my ex threaten to kill me in front of witnesses; he even tried to start something when I was sitting in a courtroom with armed deputies watching him. When his lawyer pushed him away and told him to sit down I told the lawyer, “I have a gun. I will protect myself.” Not a threat, just statements of fact.
Later that same year we had to be in the same place at the same time; the idiot showed up wearing a bullet-proof vest. Which proved to me that he was nothing but a cowardly bully, and he hasn’t bothered me since.
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 03 14 at 04:13 PM • permalinkWhy do I want a gun? Well, living in the Police State of Brackistan it’s a no-brainer that any crooks will be let off with nary a slap on the wrist.
One of my neighbours was recently sconned by a couple of druggies while out sitting on his front porch.
He heard a noise, stuck his head around the corner and was clocked with a shovel. He ended up in hospital, and then had a heart attack.
He’s still in hospital.
And the druggies? Well, the cops caught them, and let them go a few hours later.
They live around the corner from me, and while I’m not surprised, I’m seriously pissed off.
As I said* to my nextdoor neighbour when he complained about it, “why on earth would the police do something like charge them? They’d get a judge who will just bleat on about how the poor druggies are suffering from substance abuse and let them off anyway. There is so much red tape to get through, so much paperwork, when we all know they’re going to walk that it’s not worth the time and effort to even attempt to jail them.”
And how much did they steal?
$50.
A man is in hospital for fifty farking dollars, while those that put him there wander my streets at will.
Yeah, the gun buyback was a great idea.
*Polite paraphrase. I wasn’t very happy that day.Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 03 14 at 04:26 PM • permalinkAs for the idiot posting the list of those with a CCW in the name of the public’s “right to know”, whatever happened to John Q Public’s “right to privacy”?
Or is that just a stupid question?
Posted by Nilknarf Arbed on 2007 03 14 at 04:29 PM • permalinkwhatever happened to John Q Public’s “right to privacy”?
Funny thing the U.S. Constitution, the right to privacy isn’t in it….just “implied” which means only implied when it suits a lefty.
The right to bear arms however is black and white, which means it’s inconvenient for lefties…......
Posted by Old Tanker on 2007 03 14 at 04:58 PM • permalinkThe house breaker didn’t ask my permission before breaking into my house, so I’m not gonna ask his permission to shoot him.
Escalation of force here means first round is #9 and rock salt mix. Each round after that is #00.
And in regards to yelling something at the idjit before firing? All that does is make the target jumpy.
Some wag hereabouts was giving away stickers for the front door that said “Gun Free Home”.
Almost none of them appeared on “Gun Free” homes, but a few turned up on well-armed homes, LOL.
Posted by Harry Bergeron on 2007 03 14 at 05:06 PM • permalink1. Shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is murder in nearly every jurisdiction, even if he has just broken into your house.
Bruce, other people have addressed this, but that’s generally not the case in the USA; there are exceptions, I believe, but only exceptions. I’m not sure where you live, but if it’s in the USA, better check again.
You usually don’t have a duty to retreat, but you are obliged not to act as judge and executioner.
Huh? I thought shooting a burglar was murder. And where does this “duty to retreat” come from? Do you live in France?
Most unarmed burglars when confronted with a weapon will back off and try to flee.
I agree that this is possible. But I will not bet my life on it, which is pretty much what you are suggesting here. Should you care to live in my home as a full time guard, at no expense to me, I’ll consider that approach.
Until then, the only warning an intruder gets from me is the sound of a round being chambered into my shotgun. If said intruder gets stupid (i.e., fails to run like hell or does not fall on the floor in abject terror), that’s his or her problem.
And that’s within the laws of the state I live in.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 05:08 PM • permalinkThings to Do in London When You’re Defenceless…
1. Bend over and put your head between your knees.
2. Kiss your ass goodbye.
And, I sincerely hope Mr. Trejbal gets many, many visits from interesting people. Perhaps signs could be put up around Roanoke giving his address and that he doesn’t believe in CCW?
Also, I see no reason not to put online anything interesting that can be learned about him, since he apparently thinks such is okay. Wonder if he has had any tickets or civil cases or brushes with the law in his past?
Posted by JorgXMcKie on 2007 03 14 at 05:13 PM • permalinkOz Gun Buyback:
NSW was pretty non-compliant to, registration had only been introduced a few years before and most people had the sense to leave a few things “of the list”.
The good thing is I don’t think another Gunbuyback will work here. Following the 1996 Buyback the Handgun Buyback in 2002 nearly stalled, it ended up getting extended twice by significant time spans.
The reason was that owners coordinated fairly well so that they would only hand in during the last week. With one week to run on the first deadline the Police had only collected 10% of what they expected to. Not wishing to find out whether they were up against mass civil disobedience or just tardiness the Government extended the deadline. This happened twice.
So, with a bit more organisation, coordination and solidarity it would seem possible to stall any Gun Buyback almost indefinitely.
This illustrates my precise problem with the left. They lecture the rest of us on security policy and standing up against the elites, yet when push comes to shove against tyrants and criminals they cave.
That leads to an interesting thought experiment - I wonder what Lindsey would do if she could identify the burglar as a Republican. (I know, that latter notion is pretty preposterous.)
Oops, I forgot to comment on this one as well:
3. If you’re “Waving a pistol around like a fan” you’re a menace to yourself and others and shouldn’t own one.
The full context of what I said was:
Waving a pistol around like a fan is worse than not having one.
I certainly implied that weapon wavers shouldn’t own a weapon, and I clearly said so in the next paragraph:
Seriously. Beyerstein has a point, but it’s ass backwards. If you don’t want a weapon in your home for self defense, don’t get one, and take other measures. If you do want or have one, expect to shoot someone. It’s that simple.
FWIW, I agree with your statement, such as it is.
(Yes, I’m being pendatic, but if you are going to cherry pick, I’m going to be pendatic.)
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 06:08 PM • permalinkPW, if Lindsey identified her intruder as a Republican, she’d blame Bush…..after surrendering all her valuables.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 06:09 PM • permalinkAs for the idiot posting the list of those with a CCW in the name of the public’s “right to know”, whatever happened to John Q Public’s “right to privacy”?
Doesn’t apply to people doing things not approved by the Anointed.
Posted by Rob Crawford on 2007 03 14 at 06:09 PM • permalinkI think it’s worth pointing out that the widely shared fantasy of confronting an armed intruder with one’s own firearm is rarely realized. Most burglaries occur when occupants are away.
And yet ... when criminals know you’re not armed—and the only way they know that is if the law says so, and you’re a law-abiding citizen—then the odds of a “hot” burglary rise sharply.
There would be less violence as more homeowners armed. So, arguments for arming the populace should make sense even to liberals.
That is, if liberals were genuinely concerned about violence, rather than about aggregating state power.
Posted by Rittenhouse on 2007 03 14 at 06:18 PM • permalink#21 Mystery Meat:
Most burglars prefer empty houses, to avoid confrontations with the resident.
Sadly this is no longer so in my area. The drug-crazed punks that do most of the robberies prefer occupied houses in daylight.
Aged friends who live in expensive real estate on the klongs behind Surface Paradise, were recently robbed at 2 pm. Dad was noisily mowing the front lawn while Mum was upstairs ironing.
The coppers explained that this was the new trend because the thugs could expect unarmed residents, unlocked doors, and alarms turned off during daylight hours.
Most of these canal properties have fortress-like defences to the street, but have open lawns down to the canal shore at the back of the house. Guess where the robbers come in.‘an especially silly idea in a big city where the police can arrive at the scene in less time than it takes to open your gun safe, load your gun, and confront the burglar.’
I live in Balmain, Sydney, Australia. Some time ago a neighbour arrived home during the day and realised that here house was being burgled. Living just down the road from the local police station she ran there and informed the duty officer that the burglars were still in the house. She went back to stand outside her house. Twenty minutes later the burglards emerged with her valuables. 45 minutes later the police arrived. They only had to travel 600 metres. Lindsay and I sure live in different worlds.
Once I used my handgun to stop a robbery I walked in on. They saw me and walked toward me.
I didn’t say a word. I just thumbed back the hammer on my revolver.
You can’t imagine how loud that sounded.
Both robbers immediately sat down and put their hands on their heads, again without a word from me. They knew the drill.
I don’t really believe in jawin’. If they are where they should not be, they know it. It’s not my job to talk to them nicely.
#82 - I’m with you. Swedish Netball Team ever break into my bedroom, they’re copping a loaded weapon. After a cigarette and about 15 mins, they’ll cop it again. Rough justice.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 03 14 at 08:00 PM • permalinkFor those actually interested in what a total waste of time, effort and money the 1996 Australian gun buy-back scheme was, please see HERE, where the Sporting Shooter’s Association has recentl;y addressed the issue. The SSAA said in 96 that it would not work for logical and valid reasons, and has assisted in long term studies since which prove the point beyond doubt.
Of course, the point is intuitive in any case, criminals did not obey the new law. Who’d have thought that criminals would act in such a manner? I mean… like… well… criminals.
To our US cousins, get hold of the Australian Institute of Criminology report linked at the SSAA site and read it. It will provide you with very useful ammunition the next time someone in your jurisdiction comes up with this sort of stupidity.
BTW, it is still perfectly possible to own decent firearms in Australia, although the bureacratic impediments to doing so are annoying. You see, the people who drafted the legislation did not know firearms very well, so lever actions are still perfectly legal, so are .50 cal rifles (bolt action) and all forms of bolt action guns.
An unfortunate side effect of the 1996 Act has been a BIG expansion in the black market for guns, especially pistols like Glocks and Browning 9mm.
Still, a mate in New Zealand has it better. Each household can legally and openly own one still, and only full-blooded semi auto rifles WITH a pistol grip rate as Class A firearms! SMG do too, as do MG, of course.
Might move….
MarkL
CanberraHowever, if like most asshole lefties she lives in a secure high-rise with armed doormen, you’ll need to wait until she leaves her apartment and settle for her wallet.
Shades of Rosie O’Donnell. She, a
full-throatedloud-mouthed advocate for banning individual ownership of firearms (2nd Amendment be damned), hired armed security guards to “protect her children”. She denied hypocrisy because the guns were not allowed in her home and used only to guard the “perimeter”. So, in Rosieland, personal fire power is okay as long as it’s hired and confined to the “perimeter” (and of course, you know, she’s a celebrity and has needs beyond those of mere mortals, needs demanding special consideration). But the poor guy with a family to protect in East LA who can’t shell out for a hired gun and, in any event, doesn’t even have a “perimeter” is SOL. This lefty elitist attitude has become a cliche.The most interesting people, I thought, in MM’s Roger & Me were the gun shop owners. They advised people who wanted protection against home invasion to get a pump shotgun. No great skill required to hit your target and the sound of the pump alone is enough to make most intruders turn tail. Sounded like good advice to me.
That’s quite a story, Elizabeth. Smug, self-righteous little pansy accurately sums up Mr. Trejbal, I think.
Posted by Kyda Sylvester on 2007 03 14 at 08:23 PM • permalink“If you’re already getting burglarized, do you really want to add to your problems by confronting a desperate criminal with your own loaded weapon? “
Yes.
My intention is to add to his problems.
Posted by Michael Lonie on 2007 03 14 at 09:04 PM • permalinkMost burglaries occur when occupants are away.
Most, yes. I’m one of the exceptions. It was a early morning burglarly. Fortunately, the jerk spooked when I woke up (I heard a noise, and made one as well), and bugged out, so I never laid eyes on him.
I have reason to believe he cased my house through a “friend”, and likely knew I was armed. So give him high marks for balls and reaction.
And what did the character risk his life for? A cheap CD player, a palmtop computer, my wallet, and a VCR. I killed the credit cards, wrote off the cash, and had the losses covered by my home owner’s insurance. I even got my wallet back, contents (less cash) intact; the character dumped it, and the finder called me.
So I hear where Beyerstein is coming from. I just don’t care to support a criminal class.
And I think I was very lucky; the house I was in had no air conditioning, and I had left a window open for air (yes, very stupid of me, but the area was very quiet, crime wise, and I was young and ignorant).
The window had a solid screen metal mesh on it, which had been cut in a nice, clean, straight line, very quietly, along two sides, and folded back. The sort of cut a very good knife would make.
I don’t care to see if I get lucky a second time.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 09:36 PM • permalink#95 Kyda, Rosie O’Donnell could talk an intruder to death.
Talk? Her mere presence causes heart attacks.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 14 at 09:37 PM • permalinkMarkL #92. In fact what John “I hate guns” Howard’s 1996 laws were designed to do was harass shooters with pettifogging regulations designed to discourage honest people from owning firearms. Shooters in this country are treated worse than pedophiles with their personal details on the national police database, “crimtrac”. Think about that for a moment: Which other group of law-abiding citizens are recorded into a database alongside criminals?
And let’s not forget it was at his insistence that self defence is not considered a valid reason to own a firearm. He is an avowed centralist and conservative in name only.
Read the articles here for a run-down on the effects of Australia’s gun laws.
They are already asking whether KSM made these confessions ‘under duress’.
Gawd, I hope so.
Posted by Vanguard of the Commentariat on 2007 03 14 at 10:14 PM • permalinkO/T, but relevant in terms of self-help remedies.
The front page of the Qld daily rag the Courier Mail is running the front page story of a former porn king currently serving time for assault and torture attended a Liberal lunch where JWH was speaking.
The assault and torture he was convicted of occured after his house was robbed. He then tracked down the culprits, tied them up, took them back to his house, gave them a mild kicking and then dropped them off to the nearest police station where they duly confessed to the B&E. Naturally the outcome was that they walked and he is doing time.
I’m not saying that I’m unhappy about him being in the can - he’s not a nice person - nor do I agree with this, but all Australian readers should know that no matter how morally right you feel, the law does not look kindly on self help remedies.
Posted by anonymous guest on 2007 03 14 at 10:16 PM • permalinkLindsay: “Or, maybe you’ll panic and shoot them.”
Not really expecting it to be the result of panic so much as planned action.
Posted by Ernst Blofeld on 2007 03 14 at 10:17 PM • permalink#3, I think you’re spot on.
At the risk of being the lone voice of dissent on this post (particularly risky as a relatively new poster), I don’t have a gun precisely because I’m broadly not willing to shoot an intruder. It’s just a personal choice, not something that I think makes me a better person. It’s also based on an assessment that I live in a high rise apartment in the city with a doorman, have hatred levels from ex-girlfriends roughly below the murder level, and own nothing worth stealing. If I got a stalker or moved to a rough neighborhood, that calculation would probably change.
On the other hand, I think that Bayerstein is kidding herself if she believes the cops will turn up on time and save her. If you don’t own a gun, you take the chance that the intruder you have might be willing to do serious violence to you, and that’s your fate. I’m willing to take that chance, but I don’t hold it against anyone who is willing to shoot to protect themselves or their family.
Keeping a gun at home to protect against robbers seems like an especially silly idea in a big city where the police can arrive at the scene in less time than it takes to open your gun safe, load your gun, and confront the burglar.
Lindsay, dearie, the gun safe is where you keep your guns when you’re not home.
MarkL #92
BTW, it is still perfectly possible to own decent firearms in Australia, although the bureacratic impediments to doing so are annoying. You see, the people who drafted the legislation did not know firearms very well, so lever actions are still perfectly legal, so are .50 cal rifles (bolt action) and all forms of bolt action guns.
Mark, the laws differ State by State (so much for uniform gun laws!).
You have NO chance here in WA of getting a .50 cal licensed (unless it’s a blackpowder).
As for shooting intruders, the attitude here goes something like this:
To shoot an intruder, you must be in fear that your life (or that of your loved ones) is in immediate danger. Therefore, if you have time to retrieve, assemble, load and use a firearm, your life (or that of your yada yada) was obviously NOT in immediate danger; therefore, you are guilty as sin and going to meet a very friendly man named Bubba. If your firearm was NOT locked away, disassembled, with the ammo locked away separately, you are obviously a dangerous psychopath and criminal to boot; therefore, you will be fined, lose your licence and firearms ... and get to meet a veryfriendly man named Bubba. Similarly, if you have a knife, baton (oops, sorry, illegal here), cricket bat etc. beside your bed “just in case”—and you use it—bingo! You have broken the law by being armed ... which is a no-no. (As an aside, I got told by a copper at a random breath test to take a screwdriver out of my car (it was holding open a broken air vent) and leave it at home, and if he saw me with it in the car again, he’d have me up on weapons charges.)
Official police advice in the case of home invasion/burglary is to run away and leave everything to the nice burglars.
Of course, Mz. Lindsay Beyerstein is spot on.
In my experience, meth addicts breaking into your home at 3am, proclaiming they are “spawned from the ass of a jackal to undertake satans work” are some of the most rational beings on the planet. My advice is offer them a cup of chamomile tea. Ask them some “root cause” questions. And if all else fails, hug them.
Kumbaya, my Lord! Kumbaya…
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 03 15 at 12:12 AM • permalink#111, Behemoth, not at all, you made a reasoned choice with a decent risk analysis, and with suitable alternative strategies.
Not everyone is willing or able to commit violent acts, even in self-defense. This is not a bad thing, if you make the decision in advance and with knowledge of the possible consequences.
Lindsay does neither, and her post encourages people to be equally scatter brained.
Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2007 03 15 at 12:28 AM • permalink#113 BIWOZ
Glad I am presently in Canberra, then. I am thinking of getting a .50, but the price is kinda high. A friend who is a barrister said that (in ACT and NSW) should one ever have to use a firearm for self-defence inside ones own home, then:
1. You were unable to sleep and so had arisen from your bed earlier to clean your rifle/shottie/arquebus/whatever. THAT is the only reason you had it out with the bolt handy… and the ammo was a mere one key away. The magazine? You were cleaning that too.2. Leave NO survivors - pity, they will not be able to appear in court clad in a suit with a sob storey about their sad, sad lives and what a beastly brute you were for not letting then rape your wife and slit your throat.
3. Oh, lookie, that all had sharp pointies with their fingerprints on them too, as they were holding the sharp pointies. I picked them up to move them away in case they were only wounded, that would be why my fingerprints (if any) were on them.
Should you not be able to reach your gun safe in time, collect DECORATIONS.
Fijian or Papua-New Guinean war clubs makes such a nice decoration for one’s bed-head, or on a wall shelf. A sword (family heirloom of course) looks cool on the wall of your bedroom.
Scatter some others about the house - see? No weapons at all, just decor.
Just know how to use them. Practise with them. You know the house, the layout, and the range is close. That tips the odds in your favour.
And BEFORE the police arrive, call your damned lawyer, and say NOTHING without him being there.
That was his advice for people in states such as WA. His other one (which I would never do: no need!) was to go and buy a black market 9mm Browning or Glock, learn how to use it, clean it inside routinely so as to have no fingerprints inside it, load the ammo wearing gloves etc: shoot the buggers with it and make damned sure that it has THEIR fingerprints on it. Then call the police, say they came, say that it was like I was standing outside my own body watching it all (the automata defence) we fought, I got the gun, it went off, he died, that is all I remember, where is my lawyer? And then shut the hell up until he gets there.
None of this is hard, you just have to know how the system works.
An old friend (dead now) said that the simplest thing to do was to top ‘em and bury the bastards deep, many miles away. He had a very large property in NSW, easy for him to say, I suppose!
MarkL
canberraYour a nice bloke, Habib. You’d probably just take out his knees.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2007 03 15 at 02:31 AM • permalinkI lived - albeit briefly - in Rockingham, Western Australia, back in the 1970s. Our next door neighbours consisted of a family of violent criminals who demonstrated to me one night how this could ironically work as a serious deterrent to crime.
When my family moved in, next door’s head of household was in jail and the police were often seen talking to the mother or one of her three drug dealing and standover merchant sons (who for some reason though all in their late teens or early twenties still lived at home).
Shortly after the father got out of jail and returned to the brood, there was a commotion late one night. Doors were banging, people were yelling, and I thought there was some kind of family bloodletting taking place. Listening from my bed I heard the mother screaming, “There’s the cunt! Get him! Stab him in the guts! Again!”
Next day I heard someone had rather foolishly tried to rob the place. While the sons cornered the guy on the roof, the father had gone for the biggest knife he could find and went up after him. It was like fox hunting but more brutal.
Said robber was stabbed several times but got away; God knows how. Sheer terror I suspect. There was a long trail of blood on the footpath so the guy was clearly hurt.
The police were never called and the neighbourhood never experienced a burglery for all the time I was there.
Re Gun Buyback
There was a joke going around here in Queensland when weapon surrender was on that you couldn’t buy 6inch pvc storm water pipe for quids. Seems the hardware stores had run short due to gun owners buying up lengths & end caps to make underground storage possible.
I sold off my S&W .357 Magnum because I thought pistol shooters would get the worst of it. Didn’t quite turn out as bad but the whole business was a cock -up. I met a number of people who refused to surrender their weapons and they stayed where they always kept them, alongside the bed in case of intruders.
I wonder if statistics show a sizable decrease in murders since gun control. There seems to be constant reports of stabbing deaths in the media so I guess it won’t be long before knives are banned. Should I learn how to eat with chopsticks and buy pre sliced everything?
Ever wonder how Liberals can be both proponents of evolution and the worst examples of survival of the fittest?
Of course, if they were created by a benevolent god, that would be baffling too.
Posted by CrankyNeocon on 2007 03 15 at 08:14 AM • permalink#124, small dogs in fact, Staffies. A pair of rescue hounds; given the usual response from Staffies to exposure to hostile humans, I wouldn’t be relying on the lazy sods for personal defence.
However, I saw on the WA pet thingo, a staffy kept coming back on some arsehole who had invaded a place, and the WA cops had to remove the bugger from the perpitrator’s body.
I love staffys.
“And in regards to yelling something at the idjit before firing? All that does is make the target jumpy.”
It also grants you legal protections you wouldn’t normally have when you shoot an unarmed / lightly armed man, or a man with his back turned to you. Which, in turn, means the difference between a successful self-defense argument in court, and spending time in the clink for defending yourself (great way to gain “NRA cred,” but not worth being Bubba’s butt-buddy, to me at any rate).
The day I can’t hit a man-sized target, even if it’s hopping around like a CS-tard, is the day I need to hire a bodyguard to shoot my guns for me, before I shoot myself in the foot.
Posted by Tatterdemalian on 2007 03 15 at 01:39 PM • permalink#129, Tatter:
The object is to defend with as little muss and fuss and possible.
As to what’s said and what was not said and by whom and at what point in the engagement, the dead idjit aint gonna be a real good witness.
He’s in my house. He’s as armed as I make him out to be before I call the cops.
I do find it rather hilarious that everyone wants to play lawyer whenever this issue comes up.
Beyerstein:
“It might make sense be armed if you were someone who couldn’t call the cops (e.g., a drug dealer), or if you kept your entire lifesavings in uninsured jewels in a candy dish on the kitchen table. But does anyone really want to risk physical violence to protect their consumer electronics? That’s what insurance is for.”
This sort of smug disdain for other peoples’ honestly-gained values is simply outrageous. “Consumer electronics”, huh? Nevermind that the money that people spend on things that they want from life represents the very time of their life devoted to acquiring these things. In any case, it’s all disposable to Beyerstein.
Take a good look at this photograph. That guitar has been in my family since 1966: my father played it all the time I was growing up, to include the years that he spent teaching me how to play. He used to tell me that it would be mine someday “after you see that pine box dropping into the ground with my body in it”. I’ve owned a lot of guitars in my own adult years, but my father died in 2003 and this one is mine, now, just like he said.
I can’t tell you what that thing is worth to me in terms of family history: it’s priceless. Nonetheless, the vintage market at large is telling me that its value is running at about fifteen thousand dollars, today. (It’s a 1962 Gibson ES-355 in Cherry Red, with real PAF pickups and manufactured without stereo output or Varitone.)
Already, I could hear the likes of Beyerstein moaning, “Well if it’s so valuable, then why don’t you keep it in a safe or something?” The reason is because it’s a practical value: I actually play the thing every day when I’m home. I actually have seven guitars in this place, and that ES-335 of my Dad’s is very special even without accounting for the collectible value. It feels and sounds terrific and it’s not intended to be an investment or museum piece: it’s meant to be played. So it hangs on the wall or sits on a guitar-stand right at the corner of my desk where I can take it in hand on the merest whim. This is because it’s mine and that’s how I want it.
It’s pretty bloody easy for someone like Beyerstein to sit around and crack snide about other peoples’ treasures and “insurance”. When the context includes the matter of intruders doing manifest harm to innocent people, it’s an unconscionable outrage.
My position is obvious:
If it ever came to the choice between that guitar and an intruder intent on taking it, I’ve got 147-grain Hydra-Shoks that say he’s right-now dead on the right-now spot.
No choice.
Posted by Billy Beck on 2007 03 15 at 04:00 PM • permalink#128- they’re only small in stature- about 18” tall, but about the same width. One’s 40 lbs, the other near 50, and they had a visible inch of muscle on either side of their jaws- the buggers can crack macadamia nuts with one bite. I sure wouldn’t want one to latch onto me. They can also jump to head height from a prone position. They love everyone, but I think if some turd broke in and was menacing us it’d be a different story. But then he’d have to dodge a couple of 30.06 rounds before the hounds got a chance to chomp on him.
Well I’m sure as hell not going to confront the criminal with an UNloaded weapon! Actually pistol whipping someone to death takes way too much energy, and you keep finding teeth scattered in your carpet for months.
Posted by Shaky Barnes on 2007 03 15 at 07:48 PM • permalinkBTW- anyone looking for the ideal round (besides shotgun) for home invadey types, I can highly reccomend the Glaser Safety Slug- can’t buy them legally in Australia unless you’re in law enforcement, but I believe they’re openly available in the US. We used to have them as issue rounds, especially for house raids- they won’t normally travel through an ordinary house wall, so if some idiot lets a round off and misses it won’t hit a friendly. when it does hit anything organic at close range, it’s time to get out the hose- #12 birdshot suspended in liquid teflon, in a polycarb case. Leave a bigger hole than OO buckshot, with the kinetic power and accuracy of a .357 or .44/.45 load.
Messy.
If you can be arsed you can make your own hydraulic rounds as well- drill out the projectile (or buy hollowpoints), then fill the resevoir with mercury (heavy grade motor oil, about 90wt can be used at a pinch), then solder over the end. The bullet fractures on impact, so you don’t need to be terribly accurate- often handy when in a position of stress. Still, there’s not much that beats a short barrelled shotgun for close range defence. It shits me that pump actions were the ones chosen to be banned- you could have progessive loads, from birdshot to deershot to solids all in the one magazine, which would prove your reasonable nature.
Far be it from me to reccommend anything illegal or naughty, but a sawnoff 20 gauge is probably the best home defence weapon, and the choice of many of Australia’s premier hoons, thugs and crims. Mind you, one of these would be a hoot if a tad bulky.Habib: “nice ES.”
Thank you, sir. I think so, too.
“There’s nothing else that sounds like those old open body Gibsons (except maybe a like Gretsch). They really crank if you hook them up to a big old valve amp and wind up the volume.”
My Dad paid $395 for that 355 in ‘66, when it was four years old. (I’ve a photograph of the Gibson shipping ledger showing me the date when that axe left the Kalamazoo factory.) At the time, he was an Air Force staff sargent with five kids. He saved his pennies for a long time for that guitar. When he set out to buy it, he wanted to make sure of it, so he played everything in that class that he could find in the Atlanta area. He almost went with a Gretsch Tennessean. It was a very close call, but he never regretted the 355. He played it for thirty-seven years and never looked back.
These days, I play it through a Marshall 4210, which is a fifty-watt tube combo with a single Celestion 12” speaker. I play it louder than ever before in its whole life. (The Ol’ Man would never have stood for this.) When it’s really rolling at stage-level, the guitar pumps air out of its F-holes. I can feel it breathing under my right forearm resting on the body: it would blow out a candle.
It’s a luv, alright.
Posted by Billy Beck on 2007 03 15 at 09:33 PM • permalinkIt’d really sound nice through a 100W Marshall head and 4x12 Celestion box- I’ve got one of the old Hiwatt 100W amps with a 4x12 box, had it for nearly thirty years and I’ve never had to replace a thing on it. Neighbours detest it. I’ve got an open body 12 string Rick I bought in 1979, which sounds wonderful, and I just bought a Spicocaster from the US which is a nice bit of timber, but could do with humbuckers. My awful band is on the verge of reforming, to annoy pissheads at whatever pub is silly enough to book us.
”...a 100W Marshall head and 4x12 Celestion box.”
I’ve owned gear like that. Then; I got old. Now, I don’t have to haul that stuff around anymore. These days, the 4210 is my “big rig”: I set it on deck and let the audio guys do their thing. (Mic it, and run me a mix in my wedge.) In the practice studio, I run a Fender Blues Jr.: fifteen watts in a box with a ten-inch speaker that weighs like a bowling-ball and sounds marvelous.
I’m all the way over back-breaking gear. Been at this way too long for that.
Good luck with your awful band. The whole point is to get out there and have a good time, so do it every chance you get, man.
Posted by Billy Beck on 2007 03 15 at 10:06 PM • permalink“I do find it rather hilarious that everyone wants to play lawyer whenever this issue comes up.”
It pays to think ahead. When you’re getting perp-walked to PMITA prison for what shouldn’t have even been a crime, it’s a little too late to come up with a self-defense technique that includes legal defense.
Posted by Tatterdemalian on 2007 03 16 at 02:05 AM • permalinkWe’ll just see what Mr Charlton Heston has to say about this question.
Posted by Hump B Bare on 2007 03 16 at 03:28 AM • permalinkHere’s a good one a friend sent me a while back.
Question:
You’re walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your hand is a .357 Magnum and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?Democrat Answer:
Well, that’s not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he’d be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.
Republican Answer:
Shoot the son of a bitch! Then take your family to a baseball game, eat some hot dogs with apple pie, sing the national anthem and enjoy one more day of freedom.Posted by Hank Reardon on 2007 03 16 at 11:01 AM • permalinkHank: You forgot the Southern Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
(Sounds of reloading).
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
(Son). Nice grouping, Dad! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips™?
Elizabeth
Imperial KeeperPosted by Elizabeth Imperial Keeper on 2007 03 16 at 12:18 PM • permalink#142, Tatter:
Our differences may well spawn from our respective environments.
For example, the county that I live in has a DA that refused to bring charges against a civilian that shot and killed a man in a bank parking lot. The reason he shot and killed him was due to his suspicion that the man was a bank robber.
The reason the DA refused to bring charges is because the man, was in fact, a bank robber.
Even though the county where I live has the slogan “Come on Vactation, Leave on Probation”, the locals are real big on self defense and give no ground to the moronites that infest our state legislature on that issue.
#3
The cardinal rule of self-defense: if you pull a weapon, any weapon, use it.
That’s funny. A Google search for that ‘cardinal rule’ resulted in exactly one hit - to this page.
Others have already dismissed your argument, but whose “cardinal rule” is it anyway? Yours? Err…You don’t actually know what the heck you are talking about, do you?
Waving a pistol around like a fan is worse than not having one.
You are quite right. I far prefer these ‘cardinal rules’ and have tremendous respect for their original author, the late Col. Jeff Cooper. Rule II - Never let the muzzle cross anything you do not want destroyed - nicely addresses your concern. Shooting someone, simply to prove that you aren’t kidding around may leave you emotionally devastated, totally financially impoverished, and very likely, physically imprisoned getting cozy with Bubba.
The intruder will know you won’t fire….and take it from you.
Wait Let me guess… And then he’ll shove it up your ass and pull the fuckin’ trigger till it goes click? You’ve been watching too much Big Lebowski and not enough firearms training.
Two words: Reactionary gap. If you have your firearm pointed at an intruder but do not need (or are not lawfully justified) to shoot him, create one. If later required, a bullet can cover quite a bit of distance given the proper motivation.
Weapons are not amulets that ward off criminals (which is what Beyerstein seems to think), they are a tool which must be used properly.
Excellent advice. Proper use requires proper training and knowledge. I respectfully suggest you acquire more of both.
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Hell yes! I definitely don’t want to add getting buggerised to my list of problems.