<< KNOWLEDGE ABUSED ~ MAIN ~ ASYLUM SOUGHT >>
CORBY LATEST
The Australian reports:
Schapelle Corby is likely to spend at least the next five years in an Indonesian jail cell even if the Howard Government strikes a deal with Jakarta for her to be sent home, after the Gold Coast student was sentenced to 20 years in prison for drug-smuggling yesterday.
Many are distressed and furious over Corby’s sentence. From Cindy Wockner, whose coverage of the trial has been excellent:
Australians angered by the 20-year sentence handed down to Schapelle Corby by an Indonesian court yesterday have threatened to boycott our nearest neighbour.
Radio callers urged Australians to destroy Bali’s economy by turning it into a “ghost town”.
“Certainly never go to Bali again – I certainly won’t and I’ll be encouraging my friends and family not to,” one of many callers told Brisbane radio 973FM ...
From the front of the gallery, Corby’s parents and sister realised before her what the chief judge was saying and erupted with abuse and emotion. Caught in the middle, Corby swayed between distress, tears and hot anger.
Her mother Rosleigh Rose screamed at the judges: “You took the word of a liar, these judges will never sleep – Schapelle you will go home, we will bring you home.”
Indonesians outside court clapped the guilty verdict, prompting an outburst from Corby’s sister Mercedes.
I believe Corby is innocent. It seems likely to me that even if her defence had produced someone who admitted placing the drugs in her luggage, that evidence would have been rejected due to a failure to fingerprint Corby’s luggage after her arrest. It also seems unlikely that someone would instantly confess to ownership of the drugs, as Corby is alleged to have done, the moment the drugs were discovered. The remarkable coincidence of a baggage handler-assisted cocaine haul at Sydney airport on the same day Corby flew to Bali points to the possibility of her being ensnared in a drug delivery debacle.
Blog opinion is divided. Several on the right believe Corby to be guilty, while others think her innocent, as you’ll read in this comments thread. On the left, some support a Bali boycott, while others reject a boycott. Also from the left: “In the end, a good and respectful relationship between Australian and Indonesia is much more important than the fate of Schapelle Corby.”
That opinion isn’t shared here, where spelling lessons are required.
Where is Corby’s record of drug running or drug related offences?
Where are the records of large withdrawals or deposits from her bank accounts?
where is the forensic evidence of her Hydroponic setup in Tugun?
Where are the results of such enquiries which would be required as evidence to support such a massive jail sentence in OZ?
Corby has been found guilty of IMPORTING class A drugs into Bali.
the implication is that she did this KNOWINGLY.
There is no proof to support that judgement.
the verdict and sentence are an outrage.
Bombs have today exploded in a Christian market area of Sulawesi and killed at least 20 people. Will the perpetrators be caught and given light sentences of a year or too a la bashir?
Corby was a white christian woman and one can only wonder what sentence she would have received if she had “reverted” to Islam during her six months stay in Jail.I don’t know if Corby is innocent or guilty. What is obvious is the crazy disparity in sentencing betweeen this case and the plotters of the Bali bombing. I don’t want to tell the Australian Government how to handle this matter and I’m all for good relations with Indonesia, but this disparity seems a gross insult to Australia, to say the least.
Posted by Susan Norton on 2005 05 28 at 01:50 AM • permalinkAnd another thing , I’m seriously pissed off at JH for making that statement about “respect” for Indonesian law.
If that was a “political” statement, now is Not the time to make it.
Wonder what he would have said had this happened in Saudi Arabia and an Australian evangelist, sentenced to 100 lashes for smuggling Bibles into the Kingdom?Look, I don’t want to sound harsh, butNevermind the disclaimer, what kind of idiots are Australians?
Look, I don’t care what kind of vacation deals you can get, what kind of idiots put themselves in the jurisdiction of the police of a Freedom House 4-or-worse-civil-liberties rated country for pleasure? Why is there enough of a tourist trade for a boycott to be any sort of threat in the first place? Are the beaches in northern Australia that lousy?
Look, this sort of thing should not be a suprise. Sure, the Indonesians should be yelled at. But could you people please grow some sense before taking your next vacation to the land of the butchers of East Timor?
Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2005 05 28 at 02:17 AM • permalinkWhether she is guilty or not, emotional hysteria and bringing up a totally unrelated scenario (Bibles are not drugs, davo) and other tactics certainly isn’t helping the situation.
It might be that the best course of action, at least to prevent future incidents of this kind, is for people to avoid going on “cheap” holiday to third world countries. They aren’t theme parks, and if you get into trouble (whether you are innocent or guilty) in a foreign country there is often very little your own country’s government can do to help you. But I see too many people treating visits to “fun, exotic” lands like Mexico, Thailand, what-have-you, as if they are going off on a jaunt to Disney World. Some end up surprised when what we might consider a minor offense lands them for several years in prison.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 02:18 AM • permalinkEr, Lunatic, great minds think alike and all that, though I was trying to be nice myself. And Americans can be just as stupid as anyone else—like the college kids going to Cancun to drink themselves silly—I never understood that; I won’t get drunk in my own home town, why would I do that in a foreign country?
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 02:21 AM • permalinkAre the beaches in northern Australia that lousy?
they are Croc infested and full of deadly box jellyfish and of course they have no surf whatsoever.
The Balinese have always been presented as a tolerant Hindu enclave in an Islamic nation.
when i visited in the late seventies, it was certainly true.Susan Norton, what disparity are you talking about?
The disparity of her receiving 20 years whilst the Bali bombers got the Death Sentence? or the disparity of other drug smugglers getting LIFE or the Death Sentence for the same offence whilst she only gets 20 years?
The only disparity I see is she was treated more leniently compared to other people faced with the same offence and the same evidence.
With exception to the people blaming Howard (or in Davo’s case, complaining he’s playing politics, when in actual fact he just wants the nutcase Aussies demanding blood to calm the hell down) and the media who only want to sour relations because of a conservative government, it’s become apparant this thing has NOTHING to do with party politics, left and right are meaningless here.
The media has put so much spin on this case for their own ends, I’m surprised anyone can tell up from down.
Davo, no one would care about the idiot smuggling bibles.
Lastly the head judge was a Christian, to my knowledge the other judges were Hindu and Muslim.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 28 at 03:24 AM • permalinkbalinese = nice friendly relaxed people, only slightly ruined by the big bucks of the tourist trade & islamic outsiders
javanese = cruel, corrupt oppressors of a vast range of other peoples across the indonesian archipelago, cynical exploiters of religious differences, and butchers of east timor & west papua
Davo et al the prosecution alleged that SC was in possession of dope (true) and that 4 credible witnesses gave sworn evidence that she tried to block inspection of her luggage and that she identified the dope as being marijuana.
SC said that it was planted yet she had no evidence to support her allegation, that was the totallity of her case - in fact, she presented no case. Tearful outbursts are not a legal argument.
On the basis of the evidence presented there is no judge that would find her innocent, unless that judge was corrupt. By making unsubstantiated insinuations of corruption SC’s ‘minder’ Bakir made sure that the judges would act without prejudice.
Perhaps the ‘blame’ for the outcome should be laid at the feet of…...Corby, and friends.
Go to the SMH’s montage of photos and have a look at the sheer size of the bag.
i. How could you not notice when picking the board bag up, it dwarfs the weight of the board itself. Both myself and friends do a fair bit of travelling, particularly in Asia. Whilst we have extra baggage allowances from FF programmes, we all know exactly, how much our bags weigh, we have to.
ii. The size of the bag of drugs and its ‘fit’ as regards both the board and the bag itself look like whoever packed the bag had the time to make the package very similar in size and shape to both the board and the bag.
iii. Who goes to the trouble, effort and time of sending (if true) a large and valuable stash by baggage handler to baggage handler and doesn’t remove it at the other end?
It may not have been SC, though Im certain a family member knows something.
It is without doubt that Schapelle Corby would be found guilty of importation in Australia, upon the evidence presented by the prosecution.
Despite the media slant - and for a good example of this, read the first paragraph and the last paragraph of this ABC News report - I wonder what Tom Percy QC actually said? I accept that in Australia Schapelle Corby would get less of a stripey suntan, but found not guilty???
The most telling point is that which was not raised - the undertaking of a lie-detector test.
Surely, if her defence team was hell-bent upon raising nonsense like third-hand hearsay “evidence” from a remanded suspected criminal, surely they would have explored the possibility of raising equally inadmissible evidence by way of a lie-detector test?
Corby had innumerable medical and psychological tests, I’m sure that a switched on lawyer could have arranged for a polygraph test.
I wonder why not?
Whilst we can speculate on any number of scenarios plausible or not the fact remains, she did not present the court with a reasonable case of defense against the charges and the case made by the prosecution.
The prosecution did a good job in presenting their case and were abused by Corby family for doing so.
The judges made a judgement based on the facts put before them (and only those facts) and were abused by Corby family for doing so.
So where is the (alleged) miscarriage of justice?
“In the end, a good and respectful relationship between Australian and Indonesia is much more important than the fate of Schapelle Corby.”
What about the fate of 5 Aussies? 10? 100? 1000? where does the left draw the line on that one?
Or equally what if it was them? would they do 20 years in an Indonesian prison to assure good relations with Indonesia?
Posted by Harry Buttle on 2005 05 28 at 04:28 AM • permalinkGravelly are you short,overweight,balding and thirty four or what?Do you think you would be more or less noticeable at the airport.
The mastermind behind the Bali bombing gets three and a half years and the perps will almost certainly not be executed.They and he were allowed to shout in court and certainly weren’t requred to be demure and respectful.Nic,
I too have noticed the shape and ‘fit’ of the bag containing the drugs is similar to size and shape of the boogie board bag.
To me this is an indication that the bag was made to fit the boogie board bag and was not placed there oportunistically as some want to suggest.
To those you buy into the baggage handler defence (I don’t) I ask this, you are a baggage handler involved in smuggling drugs interstate.
Why would you pre-package your drugs in such a manner that you require a bag of the exact same dimensions to hide it in? After all how many boogie board bags are you expected to see going to the destination you want?
Wouldn’t it be much better to package it in such a way that it could fit into a number of different sized bags?
After all whilst you are waiting for an apporpriate bag to show up, you are very vunerable to detection.
It is without doubt that Schapelle Corby would be found guilty of importation in Australia…
Nonsense Kaboom. The judge’s remarks about how proud he was to be an immoveable obscurantist would have seen the case abandoned and the good beak himself thrown off the bench. The unrecorded hearsay evidence of a knuckle-headed narc would have been torn to shreds by any barrister.
Corby had innumerable medical and psychological tests, I’m sure that a switched on lawyer could have arranged for a polygraph test.
Quite the opposite. The polygraph is the junkiest of junk ‘science’. That is why they are not used in any jurisdiction that has more then passing respect for evidentiary principles. They are just a modern day ‘boogyman’ used to scare kiddies and the gullible.
Read about this pseudo-scientific quackery here then download The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
Posted by walterplinge on 2005 05 28 at 06:02 AM • permalinkHere be dragons ...
Many young Australians lead charmed lives but not far north the political and economic realities are very different.
Their Honours would not know much about Rumpole’s ‘Golden Thread’.
Due process and the rules of evidence don’t grow on palm trees. They’re part of our common law inheritance and something that those who glibly cry ‘oppression’ should be more aware of - and grateful for.
#24 Nic White:
Good post regarding the media circus bit, I was thinking of writing something along the same lines but you beat me too it.
But Aging Gamer, I wouldn’t be so sure that the media circus has NOTHING to do with party politics. I think the left are making a big thing of it, with sneaky and snide remarks that implicate John Howard somehow. It’s like it’s a Howard conspiracy. Just like Tampa.
And Nic, I don’t agree with Australia sending QCs over after Corby has been sentenced. I think it sets a precedent. Will we expect the Bali 9 to expect such representation? Or any other Aussie caught in a foreign land in a sticky predicament? Not good.
Lastly, I’m embarrassed at the Bogan bleatings that implore Corby’s innocence with plenty of emotion but without logic. They paint Aussies as ignorant and selfish. Unfortunately, many Aussies are.
BTW, I don’t know if Corby was knowingly involved in taking the drugs to Bali or not. I’ve said so to Habib in a few emails to him, and to several others. But now, I’m tending to think the innocent eyed beauty might know a bit more than you and I know ... Stevo.Nic
Can you post a link to the photos. I have seen them on TV, but can’t find them on the SMH website. Excellent post, btw.
Kaboom #17:
Have a read of Tim Lindsey’s article in the SMH.I have noticed a distinct change in the media, particularly in the print media, in the last 2 weeks against Corby. For months, it was an almost universal she is innocent, but recently some columnists have dared to suggest the opposite. Just as long as you ignore the TV news and Today Tonight/Ray Martin and stick to the Internet it is not too bad.
C.L. - I would not describe the unrecorded evidence of a knuckle-headed narc as “hearsay” - it seems to me that this is what is known as “direct” evidence, recorded or not.
Indeed, no effort was apparently made to impugn the evidence of not one but four knuckle-headed narcs, apart from the defendant shreiking “You’re lying! You’re lying!”.
Now, if some corruption could have been proven against these narcs, like the “corrupt baggage handlers”, then the outcome may well have been different.
Walterplinge, I have absolutely no faith in the polygraph, but as a smoke and mirrors tactic, why was it not utilised?
I’m sure it was suggested….
By the way, walterplinge, the best story I ever heard about a lie-detector (and it may well be urban myth!) were the police who placed a metal collander on the suspect’s head (with a few wires attached), and pointed to the office photocopier saying “That’s a lie-detector, you know!”
Of course, the photocopier was full of A4 portrait and landscape, already printed with “LIE” and “TRUTH”, and the walloper at the machine just had to print from whatever cartridge he chose.
After a couple of minutes of this torture, the suspect willingly gave a full confession, on video.
Lie-detectors do come in handy.
Can’t Get Enough Of That Wonderful Stuff!
(Justice in backward Islamic countries)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4582311.stmBut Aging Gamer, I wouldn’t be so sure that the media circus has NOTHING to do with party politics. I think the left are making a big thing of it, with sneaky and snide remarks that implicate John Howard somehow. It’s like it’s a Howard conspiracy. Just like Tampa.
One of the exceptions I noted, though the ones attacking Howard have missed the bigger target, all of Australia. Seems the ABC has picked up on it though, hell they’re probably the ones that planned it, beating on the nest so they can talk about how awful the bees are. Of course this is all a side effect of the Corby case, what I’m saying is party politics don’t really enter into whether or not she’s guilty, everyone has a different opinion it seems regardless of political views.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 28 at 08:11 AM • permalinkAfter a long and drunken day, involving a lengthy lunch and expensive wine, several lawyers, including a former Principal Legal Officer for customs matters, now at the bar, a couple of unaligned solicitors and other people with no real allignment either way, all concluded that the verdict was safe, an appeal would be foolish and a conviction would be recorded under Australian Federal Court jurisdiction, in front of a jury.
Ancillary to this was a statement (hearsay) from one who spoke to an AFP BCI person, who said Schapelle Corby had been a subject of interest for five years.
I think the Australian media is going to look like complete tits at the end of this; the circus created is a disgrace, the complicity of the Commonwealth no less.I have no idea if she’s innocent or guilty, but if Indonesia’s justice system is so unreliable that no one feels confidence in its verdict and foreigners genuinely have to fear getting framed and put away like this in an unfair proceeding, then staying away isn’t a boycott, it’s just common bloody sense. You want tourists, you have to show the tourists that they don’t have to fear getting taken for a ride by the judicial system.
#40 Aging Gamer:
Agree about the latter part of your comment. What I was saying is that the media coverage was political, in that some of it refers back to John Howard. I remember listening to a tape of Corby’s cousin on ABC wireless on Friday where she wanted to know what John Howard was going to do about the case. IMO, the Commonwealth Government should not be involved with this. The Government should be involved with what they call affairs of state, things that involve the country like employment, defence, industry, etc. Getting involved in the Corby case is a distraction and something that could harm relations between our countries.
Kindest regards ... StevoMalaysia has hanged around 350 people in the last 25 years. Most went to the gallows for drug trafficking. Three of them have been Australians. Many here will remember Barlow and Chambers. How many remember the third? Click on link above to see how well you remember.
Singapore has hanged about 400 people since 1991, most for drug trafficking. Of 174 executions reported in the press between 1993 and 2003, 93 were foreign nationals, from places like Malaysia, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand, The Philippines, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (with The Netherlands as the outlier). Who knows the name of the Australian currently facing death by hanging in Singapore on drug trafficking charges? Click here for answer.
Indonesia has 54 people on death row; 31 of whom have been convicted of drug charges. Two Thai nationals were killed by a firing squad in November 2004, after they were found guilty of smuggling heroin into Indonesia over 10 years ago. A 65 year old Indian man was also killed in 2004 for drug charges after his appeal for clemency was denied. Seven others with drug charges have had their last appeals for mercy denied and are now scheduled for execution.
In Thailand, Thaksin Shinawatra’s all out war on drugs left 2,274 dead in “extrajudicial executions” in a three-month period in 2003.
The message seems pretty clear. These governments are not mucking around.
The vast majority killed in the four countries above have been locals and migrant workers from other parts of Asia. On top of these “legal” killings, numerous other locals who have made a stand on human rights or social justice have also been killed. In Thailand, 16 community activists (often involved in trying to save land for local villages from developers) have been killed since Thaksin came into power in 1991. A well known human rights advocate in Indonesia, Munir, was killed by arsenic last year on a flight from Jakarta to The Netherlands. Remember Marsinah, a young female trade unionist raped and killed in Indonesia in 1993?
I could go on and on. The point is that the Indonesian and Thai states have killed thousands of locals over the last few decades (and longer, of course). But in response, many citizens within those countries have been brave enough to stand up to that.
Which is why I think CL’s comment on another thread that “there’s not a thing we can usefully learn from [Indonesians]” demeaned those efforts. Rather than slagging off Indonesians (or indeed the Indonesian state), it would seem more useful to me that we now offer support to those who are really doing the tough and sometimes dangerous work to reform corrupt systems from the inside.
Calls for boycotts are understandable in the heat of the moment, but they amount to no more than individual foot stamping. And what’s more, they’re the easy way out. It’s much harder to actually affect change. Rather than boycott Bali (what did the woman earning AUD50 a month cleaning your hotel room ever do to deserve losing her job over this?), how about putting in some effort to support independent human right lawyers in Indonesia who are trying to develop a transparent legal system?
Most people reading this are broadly speaking conservative (I really don’t care about the distinctions over this term), and if conservatism has at its heart a respect for individual rights, then it is surely our political task to ensure they are protected in the fairest and most transparent way possible (which was what I understood from some of CL’s comments on the other Corby thread, and with which I totally agree).
I’m sure there are people who can put this better than I can, but I hope you get the point.
Hanyu: it seems that considering the usual fate of people suspected of trafficking drugs in Asia, Corby’s sentence is remarkably light. If she really does get out of prison after five years, it may indeed be that Indonesian officials did think that she was innocent, or at least unwitting (it does seem strange that a person with a modicum of sense would try to bring a pillow-sized bag of marijuana through customs), but that their own draconian anti-drug laws didn’t permit them to simply let her go. So perhaps they will do the only thing they can, and quietly whittle down her sentence as much as possible. This is where backing off by the media would help, but we all know that this isn’t going to happen, and that is too bad.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 11:17 AM • permalinkI have come to these conclusions after reading the blog post that Habib linked to, by the way.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 11:19 AM • permalinkI didn’t follow this case. But I followed this one, of a British nurse in Malaysia, and it was a complete joke.
They sentenced him to death.
Posted by harry hutton on 2005 05 28 at 11:43 AM • permalinkAndrea 52#
I think the two main reasons for Corby’s relatively light sentence are she doesn’t have a criminal record and that she was only smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana (4.1kg of marijuana certainly doesn’t go as far as 4.1kg of heroin).
I have only been able to find one other person who has been sentenced to death for smuggling marijuana, an Indonesian named Kiagus Zainal Abidin - disturbingly for Corby he was initially sentenced to 18 years by the District Court, but this was changed to a death sentence on appeal to South Sumatra High Court, but he had in his possession 58.7 kilograms of marijuana.
So 20 years seems about right on the mark for Indonesia.
Nic #48: Thanks for the link.
Schapelle? Rosleigh? Mercedes? Why do Australians have such stupid names?
Posted by harry hutton on 2005 05 28 at 01:26 PM • permalinkNames here are indeed getting worse, they aren’t even cool like “Moon Unit”.
Worse yet, you get “variations” which only exist because the parents are incapable of proper written language.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 28 at 01:45 PM • permalink“Why do Australians have such stupid names?”
It appears to be a badge of pride worn exclusively by Bogans here, and it seemed to arise from mis-spellings on birth certificates. You know, Bylinda gives birth to Jaidyn, etc etc.
It’s actually not such a bad thing. Firstly, it identifies them, meaning an easier workload for the police.
Secondly, their punishment is fitting enough, going through a lifetime of hell with the glassy-eyed mouthbreather of officialdom on the other side of the desk asking for the umpteenth time “How do you spell THAT?”
Hanyu’s post #49 puts me in mind of those that condemn Asian countries saying they are corrupt and wont act against the drug trade…and when they do act it is because they are corrupt….
SC is now facing an appeal by the prosecution for life or more and judging by the stuff ups to date by SC & friends I dont like her chances.
I’ve yet to learn the derivation of the name, ‘Schapelle’. The only possiblity I can think of is from famous Aussie cricketer, Ian Chappell. Otherwise known as, ‘Chappelle’. Any better suggestions…?
Apparently, Beyoncé Knowles’ first name came from her mother’s maiden name. Maybe miss Corby’s parents did something similar? I mean more generally, in that it could be a family name.
“Mercedes” is an old Spanish name; there’s nothing wrong with it.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 07:20 PM • permalinknot one post here has asked the obvious question that is why would you take dope to Bali in the first place?? Be like selling ice to the eskimos. And despite asia’s harsh laws on drugs where do the majority of drugs come from, none other than asia. What a joke. The next tidal wave that goes thru that cess pit and some charity knocks on my door for aid I’ll give them my boogie board. Here, ride it out.
not one post here has asked the obvious question that is why would you take dope to Bali in the first place??
Err, that’s because that question is SO obvious that it was asked and discussed about 15 times in the previous thread already, Mr. Smartypants.
Stevo, Jayday Aging Gamer, habib, Nic Rog2, Andrea and Rightsaid, and any others keep up the fight for reason to prevail over emotion.
“After all how many boogie board bags are you expected to see going to the destination you want? “ Exactly This defence just doesn’t cut it. Your comment made me think again about this baggage handlers argument.
First however irritated one might be about with our AFP’s heads comments, he is both an intelligent and competent man. And he is obviously informed.So revisit the baggage handlers in Sydney. What is it they have been doing.
“A ROGUE baggage handler who intercepted drug mules’ bags before Customs could inspect them enabled a Sydney cocaine syndicate to smuggle more than $10million worth of the drug, police claim.
And what is the process needed to stop this practice.
The Australian understands authorities are thrashing out urgent plans to begin screening baggage handlers and X-raying THEIR bags. “
Those of you who have some knowledge, is it that baggage handlers are able to insert their own baggage into the holds of planes. That would of course be a major concern for the authorities. Remember the persons of interest who have worked as baggage handlers. Why hasn’t this problem been addressed before.
$80,000 of drugs. Now while I know that the return is very high on drugs, the idea that they would place them in random bags that have to be quickly identified at the other end has been nailed by those trying to inject reason here.
Think about it, I have acquaintances who have had the misfortune to have some other dipstick depart the airport with their luggage. I have never known anyone who has found something additional in his or her luggage, despite the anecdotal and untested stories we have been fed. It is such a high risk way of doing business for the smugglers. As has been said by others just drive them. This is not a product that is so time critical that it is necessary to adopt such a risky approach. It only makes sense if the baggae belongs to accomplices.
The argument that this is an activity for the internal movement of drugs in Australia. Yet when has it failed before and Joanne citizen has got home to discover 4 kilos in her bag. Never. It clearly isn’t how it is done. As the report says the drugs are inserted in the bags of MULES.
The Indonesians were smart enough to see that is didn’t have legs as a defence. Our AFP knows it doesn’t have legs. Our lawyers are pretty unanimous about that also so, bar Mr Bakir and co. I note that the Perth QC who had offered his services pro bono couldn’t get anyone to call him back. While I doubt that the Indonesian legal team has any questions over them because of the way they were employed, the questions about the useless legal services provided by Mr Bakir’s lawyer have to be looked at. Did he move to keep the QC’s out and if so why?
Sorry, I too was terribly moved by 2 hours of a pretty young women’s face.The information put to us here by reasonable people speaking objectively is very persuasive. She at the very least was used as a mule for some one close to her, at worst an active participant in the importation of drugs into Indonesia.
It is not just that the current hillbilly behaviour is harming Schapelle’s chances, I would suggest it is hardening attitudes in Asia about other Australians our government is trying to assist
Susilo Said:
“Unless complete results of investigation have been made none should conclude that the Bali and Marriott bombings were the work of Jemaah Islamiyah. Security authorities are still striving to find their mastermind,”
So Bashir remains a sort of godfather figure. He should be under a death sentence, and the schools he worked through should be shut down.
I will not be convinced of the integrity of the new Indonesia while they fail to deal with their own bombers.Boogie boards cost money.
Give the word and I’ll have my team over to fetch your girl.
Then we can let the Indonesians handwring, and wonder if a drugged up girl is worth upsetting relations with Australia.
Posted by papertiger on 2005 05 28 at 08:02 PM • permalink“The two top silks, Mark Trowell QC and Tom Percy, QC, now fear the headline-seeking antics of Corby’s legal team could cost the 27-year-old student her life.
The lawyers repeatedly approached Corby’s legal team with offers of help only to be shut out.
Mr Trowell called legal partners at Hoolihan’s Lawyers in Surfers Paradise as part of a Federal Government-sponsored attempt to assist Corby, but his calls went unreturned. “Readers of the Courier Mail (20 April) would have seen this. I hadn’t.
Go visit the save Schapelle site and worry. For one thing they want any baggage handler shipping drugs, not those that might have been blowing $80,000 by putting drugs in Sachapelle’s boogie bag, locked away for life. So they don’t have a problem with a twenty year sentence, just who should be given one.
Of course more money needed.Hanyu #49 and Ros # 70
i) Asia is a conduit to Australia for drugs. Would people be happy with drugs swamping us, coming through ‘unchecked’? As conservatives we also ask that Indonesia help in stopping the flow of illegal immigrants, we can’t have it both ways.
ii) Who creates the demand for grass in Bali? It is Australians themselves who are part of this problem and need to understand that in creating demand, we also bear some responisibility.
As for Australians that can see their way clear to saying that a child injured in the tsunami needing rehabilitation or a poor fisherman who lost everything and needs assistance to make a living for whatever family he has left should be denied our assistance and compassion because of the sentencing of one young woman.
Let’s play the emotion game. Revisit in your minds the old lady being helped by a man as the front started up the main street and then as they disappeared and that nightmare of a wave that appeared to be solid swept away those poor people in their thousands. Our servicemen and women removing thousands of bodies amongst other horrors, the tears they must have shed, 9 Aussies dying when assisting, and my fellow Australians reduce what they did to nothing.
And is it the Indonesian justice system that we are supposed to hate, Indonesians in general or may we limit our venom to Australian baggage handlers. Are the baggage handlers and Indonesian society involved in a conspiracy of opportunity to..? Sorry my synapses just couldn’t come up with a further element for this conspiracy.
#70 Ros:
The baggage handlers, who I term wharfies of the airport, have been involved in drug importations for a long while. Well, some of them have. However, I don’t believe that has anything to do with this Corby case. The people who can police the activities of the baggage handlers and airside workers are Customs. They have considerable power under the Customs Act , which I referred to in an earlier comment. Customs management don’t have the intestinal fortitude to allow their department to search airside workers. The other airport employers create a fuss when Customs want to search airside employees, so it doesn’t happen. Customs management backs down. How do I know ... just say I do.I’ve had another thought: a side issue seems to be outrage over Indonesia’s drug laws (for example: this post by Professor Bunyi[), and I share the belief that harsh penalties for possessing a drug like marijuana—which in its unadulterated form seems to be rather a rather mild substance, though I hear there are more potent versions out there—are rather over the top. I’ve already stated what I think are some of the reasons for these harsh drug laws in these countries here, but I am willing to think that maybe a better solution—for Indonesia’s economy if nothing else—would be for them to simply legalize the drug and start selling it on the open market.
However, this happy solution doesn’t take several things into account: 1) corruption in Indonesia’s government surely is echoed in the business sector there, and simply legalizing a substance doesn’t eliminate crime surrounding dissemination of that substance, especially one that is sure to be regulated and taxed as mind-altering substances like drugs and booze are—after all, Prohibition in my country was repealed decades ago, but there is still plenty of illegal liquor trading going on here and there; 2) Indonesia’s harsh drug laws are probably in response to the urgings of nations like Australia and the US due to our own anti-drug policies: as Nic has pointed out above, where do most of the customers for this stuff come from? Sure, I’ll bet plenty of Balinese smoke grass and do heroin. But the major customer base is the people with the big bucks willing to pay top price to feed their addictions or the addictions of their fellow citizens.
Then again, I am not so sure that blithely legalizing all drugs will solve the problem either. As I said, criminals will simply turn to circumventing the regulations that will spring up around these substances if they are legalized. Even I am not naive enough to think that the governments will not pounce on this new source of tax revenue.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 09:00 PM • permalinkOh, and yeah, what Ros said about the tsunami-charity-regretters. What does that have to do with anything? I guess if any of you start complaining about some Muslim terrorist ranting on how all Australians deserve to die because your government sent troops to Iraq I’ll know to ignore you.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 28 at 09:10 PM • permalinkIf Indonesia legalized pot the rest of Asia would lynch them, it’d have to be a change all over Asia. And I’m beginning to think Bakir wanted to see her found guilty, more donations that way.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 29 at 12:13 AM • permalinkThe Salvation Army lost my support today when their collector for the national door-knock appeal told me that the donations would not be going to tsunami victims in Indonesia. Apparently to the Salvation Army, human suffering is divisible: they will collect for the destitute of Australia but not for the destitute of Indonesia. A fine example of Christian charity.
Salvos lost me ages ago with awful ads (hint: you don’t need to advertise using dickheads) and rather then door knocking around here, they just have this loud obnoxious siren (that drives you mad half the day), demanding you race out of your house and throw money at them.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 29 at 02:43 AM • permalinkI can’t say yes or no on SC’s innocence or guilt. It seems bizarre to me that someone would try to get away with smuggling a load of dope that size into Indonesia - then again, there’s now one former baggage handler who was stupid enough to do a stunt with a camel suit.
Probably I tip slightly towards believing her guilty. Mostly because of the bogans that constitute her nearest and dearest; Mother Corby especially gives me an ugly vibe. That said, I’d bet that she would have walked if she’d been tried in Australia. A half-decent criminal lawyer would have torn the prosection case to pieces - and we’d probably be talking instead about the sloppiness of our own legal system.Posted by SwinishCapitalist on 2005 05 29 at 04:13 AM • permalinkThe Salvation Army lost my support today when their collector for the national door-knock appeal told me that the donations would not be going to tsunami victims in Indonesia. Apparently to the Salvation Army, human suffering is divisible: they will collect for the destitute of Australia but not for the destitute of Indonesia. A fine example of Christian charity.
This was not the result of the Corby trial, they collect for local destitute as a matter of course.
You can always donate to the Indonesian branch of the Salvos.
Oh, and when you say “lost my support today”, does that mean it caused you not to donate to them? Isn’t that hypocritical as well as ill-informed?
Have read all the posts on both threads and studied the links, including opinions from several QC’s (or SC’s in NSW I think) and can’t help but apply Occams Razor. The sheer number of improbabilities that have to be overcome to accept her guilt makes any such finding unlikely in the extreme.
Whereas her explanation of events is elegant in the mathematical sense. It fits with all the known data and circumstances.
The problem for the legals amongst you, such as Habib, is that you find her defence weak. As a legal layman I think; well it would be given there is nothing to defend.
As for the incident at the airport when the drugs were discovered; well this is where I find it hard not to be suspicious of the motives of those claiming her behaviour was strange. I find the reports of her behaviour reasonable. I am always nervous at foreign airports, mainly because I do not like to be around strangers with loaded automatic weapons. Furthermore if she retrieved her bag from the luggage collection and fronted at the customs counter, this may have only taken a few minutes. I think it unlikely that you would then announce to your travelling companions “hey this bag seems heavy and out of shape” and proceed to spill the contents out in the arrivals hall trying to see what was there, before going through customs.
Incidentally Stevo Tom Percy QC is there to defend some of the “Bali 9” (who are going down and rightly so.)Posted by Dean McAskil on 2005 05 29 at 07:53 AM • permalinkPS. We have grabbed our ankles for Indonesia since their disgraceful behaviour in East Timor. In addition we have ponied up for every crisis and disaster they’ve exeprienced since then. And yes I know I’m talking about the Javanese administration and not the Balinese but hey, it’s not my fault they’re part of the archipeligo.
It is my view we should not send one more cent to the damn place, for any reason. F***them all and the horse they rode in on from now on.
Posted by Dean McAskil on 2005 05 29 at 07:59 AM • permalinkFor the last time, this isn’t British Law.
However like here, what the media and everyone says is meaningless unless it’s admissible in court when it comes to verdict.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2005 05 29 at 08:22 AM • permalink#88 Dean, Applying Occam’s Razor, the simplest and therefore most likely explanation, is that either she put the drugs there or someone she knew put them there. Anything else requires a whole lot of unproven and unlikely hypotheses. But that’s Occam’s Razor for you.
On the legal arguments, did you see Peter Faris QC’s analysis on his blog? I appreciate that you are a legal layman, but that analysis sets out just how legal reasoning works. It can seem pretty callous to legal laymen, but that’s what our courts apply every day. Faris’s conclusion is that, on the evidence available and referred to in the media, conviction would be safe in an Australian court.
re #89, of course, if Australia took your advice and the Indonesians got very annoyed, they could cancel our commercial overflight arrangements over their territory. Playing “beggar thy neighbour” is a silly game.
Incidentally Stevo Tom Percy QC is there to defend some of the “Bali 9” (who are going down and rightly so.)
Gee Dean, you seem to be unwilling to universally apply the assumption of innocence which you’ve been on about now for four days. Why’s that Dean? Because Renae Lawrence is a munter and you want to shaft Schappelle Corby?
Even if you believe, or want to believe, she is innocent, wanting something to be so does not make it so. If you cannot prove your case you must defer to the justice system.
I’m with Nic on the size and shape of the bag of dope. And I think Police Commissioner Keelty knows something we don’t for him to be so unsympathetic.
Posted by Big Johnny on 2005 05 29 at 07:52 PM • permalinkEven if you believe, or want to believe, she is innocent, wanting something to be so does not make it so
Exactly!
As I’ve said, I feel very sorry for her and do not believe that the crime, which she’s been convicted of, should EVEN BE a crime. The sentence ityself is an absolute disgrace and the judges are power-crazed thugs.
Despite expressing this very clearly, I’ve been subjected to accusations that I was going to have a couple of celebratory beers with Habib, just so we could gloat about the poor woman (not that we need an excuse).
People like CL, DeanMcAskil and MichaelParkes just need to go have an Uncle Doug - it might cause them to start thinking with their brains again instead of their dicks.
Uncle Doug?
BTW the reference to my opinions being based in some way on a carnal view of the defendents is offensive to me.
In the case of the Bali 9 I’m not arguing that they would be found guilty in a court. It is my opinion that they should be.
Murph, we do agree on the issue of legalisation. I also find it bizarre that narcotics (in the broad definiton) are illegal. In particular weed, which has short term and long term negative health effects, while not the same, but similar in gravity to nicotine and alcohol.
I do not mind if you take drugs. Knock yourself out. What I do mind is that due to the high price caused by prohibition, you break into my house and steal my stuff to pay for it.
Posted by Dean McAskil on 2005 05 29 at 11:01 PM • permalinkHabib: Thanks for the link to the Peter Faris QC site and his take on Schapelle Corby’s being found guilty (as well as other info in similar threads). It helps - I do think that people involved in policing become very cynical, but when you see the worst of people I suppose that you tend not to trust.
For Chrissake, Murph! “Sorry”‘s not going to be enough if you keep it up.
Posted by Andrea Harris, Administrator on 2005 05 30 at 12:39 AM • permalinkWant her out? Here’s how. I’m speaking from experience, so listen up.
1. Shut the hell up for about 3 months.
2. Use that three months to raise, oh, about $50,000 for “bail” pending appeal.
3. Get the hell out of Indonesia and never, and I do mean never, go back.
4. If she’s stupid to set foot in Indonesia again, she deserves whatever happens to her.continuation of #76 ... does anyboady read page 2? ... maybe only Andrea ... well, it didn’t take long for a report into security holes at the airport to be released, and the politicians and departments are blaming someone else, other than themselves, and ducking for cover ... I was going to say on this comment #76 that a journalist should run with it because there was a story there ... a leaked report achieved the same thing a day later! Tim, you better run another Corby update because many Australians have turned feral after culpable media incitement ... you journo colleagues are doing Australia a big disservice ...
Page 1 of 1 pages
Members:
Login | Register
| Member List
C’mon Tim, she’s guilty and should thank her lucky stars she didn’t get life, which is still a possibility if the prosecution is successful in appeal.
If it had been a short overweight balding guy of 34 in her predicament, would the current media frenzy, including that by the pathetically populist ABC, have been so strident?