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ARROGANT AND ABRASIVE
The Indian cricket team yesterday threatened to suspend its tour of Australia following a sequence of disputed decisions by neutral umpires, the charging (and three-match ban) of Indian spinner Harbhajan Singh over abuse of an Australian player, Indian demands that West Indian umpire Steve Bucknor not stand in the next Test and a senior Indian player smearing Australia as “a team that cheats and lies quite blatantly”. All of which leads Peter Roebuck to conclude:
Ricky Ponting must be sacked as captain of the Australian cricket team.
Why, precisely, Roebuck doesn’t say, offering only broad swipes: Ponting is “arrogant and abrasive”, he’s shown insufficient respect for his “accomplished and widely admired opponents”, and “has not provided the leadership expected”. Oh, and there’s this: his team has a “narrow and self-obsessed viewpoint”. (There’s a line guaranteed to sting a professional sports outfit.) According to Roebuck, the “worst aspect” of the Australian performance was ... :
... their conduct at the end. When the last catch was taken they formed into a huddle and started jumping up and down like teenagers at a rave. It was not euphoria. It was ecstasy ... Not one player so much as thought about shaking hands with the defeated and departing.
How unseemly. Roebuck also wants Matthew Hayden and Adam Gilchrist sacked and reckons Michael Clarke “cannot be promoted to the vice-captaincy of his country” because:
In the first innings he offered no shot to a straight ball and in the second he remained at the crease after giving an easy catch to slip.
About Harbhajan Singh - unlike Ponting, Hayden, Gilchrist and Clarke, actually suspended by the International Cricket Council - Roebuck is a little more forgiving:
Harbhajan Singh can be an irritating young man but he is head of a family and responsible for raising nine people.
Makes all the difference, then. Why wasn’t the ICC made aware of this? Besides, he’s only guilty of responding to Australian taunts:
Australian fieldsmen fire insults from the corners of their mouths, an intemperate Sikh warrior overreacts and his rudeness is seized upon.
Curse those intemperate Sikh warrior genes! They’ll get you in trouble every time. By the way, the SMH ran this on the front page. It’ll be interesting to see how the Australians deal with reporters from that paper ... especially as, claims Roebuck, Ponting has turned them “into a pack of wild dogs”.
Perhaps they’ll “overreact”.
UPDATE. Thoughtful pieces from Gideon Haigh and Greg Baum, who notes that the media “forgot themselves at Indian captain Anil Kumble’s press conference and applauded him for sticking it to Australia.”
UPDATE II. This should liven things up:
The International Cricket Council has confirmed that umpire Steve Bucknor will stand in the third Australia v India Test at Perth from 16 January.
UPDATE III. ICC caves: Steve Bucknor dumped, Brad Hogg charged, Harbhajan Singh likely to play.
Jeez, emotions are running high. Just imagine if we were discussing something important.
For the aptly named Wacko, it is BB77 who alleges Queenslanders are racists. (See #201.)
Harold, you reckon my opinions are invalid due to a lack of knowledge but refuse to enlighten me. Now you say i have a comprehension problem. You then piss off without commenting on whether or not you agree with BB77’s claim that Symonds must have been teased because he grew up in Qld and that this is somehow connected to Singh’s suspension – you know, in comment #201, the one you referred me to.
In #209 closet racist BB77 says, “First, Symonds is of English/West Indian origin. One look at him makes that obvious.” Well, it ain’t quite so obvious; I just rang six different people; all at least vaguely aware of the “monkey” sledge. None of them knows Symonds is English/West Indian; two think he’s part Aboriginal; and one guessed Samoan.
JF The defence you have mounted here in not knowing about Symonds ancestry is basically “others were also ignorant of this ” . Googling ain’t hard if you had any doubt.
Mounting a defence of yourself on the basis that others around you are also dopes on this matter is hardly one I would even try with Judge Judy .
#8 the defence that was mounted by JF was in direct correlation to the statement “just one look at him makes that obvious” by BB77
JF was simply saying that many people dont know just by looking at him what his ancestory is. I certainly didnt and I dont care about his ancestory enough to bother looking it up on the internet.
Beck,
Calling someone of african / black descent a monkey is racist. ie porch monkey ie lazy black man just sits on the porch instead of working ie well known racist taunt of african blacks - it is widespread throughout soccer (football) and has been used in cricket before.
Singh did so before (ie before this game) and was cautioned. He agreed not to do so again. HE KNEW IT WAS RACIST ABUSE OF SYMONDS. The Indian public the taunted Symonds repeatedly with this.
How would you like 20,000 pretending to be monkeys and bellowing out monkey chants at you?
Singh gets sledged (ie not abused, just verbal battery), and calls Symonds, clearly if you can lip read, a big monkey. He later gets Ponting’s wicket and rolls twice on the ground like a monkey would.
From this, we can safely say this FUCKWIT is a racist shit who deliberately resorts to racist retorts and even when facing an ICC probe, performs the actions of a monkey to aggravate the situation. He deserves to be rubbed out of the game.
Tendulkar, I will say again, is the cause of this uproar for lying about what Singh has said, and calling on his Board to suspend the tour. What a little tosser.
Sacrificial Buck and Hogg on the ICC altar of Harbhajan Singh.
Posted by stackja1945 on 2008 01 08 at 05:16 AM • permalinkWacko, I started commenting in this thread at #180. Here are the points I’ve made so far:
1) Singh’s alleged monkey sledge is no big deal and certainly didn’t warrant a three match suspension;
2) The whole Australian team has a bit of an attitude problem going all the way back to Ian Chappell
3) Singh’s suspension can’t be justified on the basis of Symonds assumed childhood teasing in Qld;
4) Officials over-reacted to the monkey sledge at least in part because Australians are assumed to be racist.
That pretty much covers it.
Andrew Symonds’ English/West Indian heritage has no bearing on my opinions, so I’m certainly not trying to defend my ignorance; there’s no need to. My point is that most Australian’s couldn’t give a stuff about Symonds heritage, all they know and care about is that he’s a bloody good cricketer.
And now they’re replacing Bucknor with Bowden. Bucknor at 75% is better than Bowden at 110%. Where have all the good umpires gone? Is bureaucratic constipation stopping the good ones being identified and brought to the top where they can do their thing?
Maybe the ICC is becoming more like the UN in that it’s where you’re from, not how good you are that determines how you’re promoted.
Come on Mentalfloss, except for one gently ungentlemanly comment about women commenting on cricket, all I’ve said is that calling someone of African descent ‘monkey’ is clearly intended to suggest they are ape-like, which is the most basic of racism. Harbajhan has a record of making that comment to Symonds, knows it is racially offensive and why, has made it to no white Australian player. and has now made it again so deserves his punishment under cricket’s anti-racism rules. Straightforward. Meanwhile, your friend Beck has shown himself to know nothing about cricket, nothing about the issue, nothing about Australia, and nothing about Symonds - even saying he was aboriginal.
So tell me, in simple language, why that makes me unworthy of comment on Beck’s stupidity? Beck may be brilliant in other areas, but this is one area in which he - and probably you - should have done some study before going to your keyboard.
As a neutral party, I can only say that I tried hard to not feel sorry for the frequently unlovely Indians and the ludicrous decisions that went against them on the first and final days - but I can’t.
If this had happened to Australia when they were trying to save a match, there’d be a large crowd with torches and pitchforks outside the umpire’s hotel.
I don’t support Roebuck’s hyperbole about getting shot of Gilchrist and Haydn, but I do think Ponting needs relieving of the captaincy until he finds out what the meaning of “the spirit of cricket” is. Now granted he’s from Tasmania, a land not noted for producing diplomats, but I’ve met quite a few Aussies who cannot disagree that Ponting’s Australia have crossed a line in sportsmanship and competition which should not be crossed.
Australia IS the best Test Cricket nation in the world without sledging the oppostion, claiming non-catches as catches, intimidating the umpires with massive appealing every other ball. Every other nation wishes they had a Ponting, a Gilchrist, a Haydn, a Symonds and a Lee in their side.
Australia did achieve a 16 Test match winning streak but at what cost? Not even half their fans can look at them in the eye to congratulate them.
Oh please Beck, no one in the world who knows anything about cricket thinks Symonds is aboriginal. And no, it is not racist to suggest, as I did, that you could tell by looking at him; it is common sense. An Italian looks different from a Fin, a West Indian looks different from an Indian. It’s not racist to realise that. And I didn’t say all Queenslanders are racist. However, that state has had a reputation for being a little more on the redneck side than the rest of the country. Again, anyone who knows Australia would find that a totally unremarkable statement. (Only a few years ago they managed to put a whole bunch of One Nation candidates into state parliament, which would be a bit of a clue to most people.) I’m sure you’re a wise and loveable chap on most subjects, but you’re totally out of your depth when it comes to cricket.
Peter M is exactly right about Tendulkar - very disappointing that someone of his standing should try to influence his board to end the tour. He was clearly out of earshot and shouldn’t have got involved.
John a is exactly wrong. Australia has put up with far worse, and we never react by burning effigies and chanting outside hotels. Give me one example of that ever happening.
We have lost series at home to the West Indies through a single, vital umpiring decision that replays proved were wrong, lost the Ashes on a decision replays proved was wrong, and put up with ludicrous home town umpiring on the sub continent for years, but never rioted or went crazy. Not once. We just put our heads down and beat the buggers next time.
Finally, the tour will go ahead because the Indian TV companies will not allow the Indian board to forgo the coverage they’ve paid for. Simple economics. The ICC should have realised that and told the Indians to shut up and get on with it.
Jeez, I never thought I would start picking on some of the RWDB commentariat here, but if you are going to sledge the Injuns, at least be aware of the fact that Injuns don’t have family names per se and if you are shitcanning someone called Chappati Singh, then call him by the name he is usually known, i.e. “Chappati”, not “Singh” (‘lion’, a multipurpose surname that is about the 300th most common in England).
This applies to Harbahjan Singh, the knobheaded sledging tanty thrower as well. (and, no, I don’t give a rat’s arse how it is spelt either).
He is “Harbahjan”, supply your own adjectives, bonus points for including racist or animal references.
BCCI are blackmailers, pure and simple, and are now laughing like loons at how easily the snivelling wretches in the ICC folded. Look for more of the same in years to come.
Pedro pissed off? You bet, not that anyone other than the dog gives a monkey’s.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 06:10 AM • permalinkThe ‘Deep North’ cliche regarding Queensland was invented by leftist morons, of course - the same ones who thought Bjelke-Petersen’s righteous malice against Gough Whitlam couldn’t really hurt Gough, what with him being so much more educated than Joh. How’d that work out? Speaking for all Queenslanders, we leave race riots to the sophisticates of suburban Sydney. Many of whom, by the way, ridiculed Artie Beetson when he captained his State to Origin victory in 1980. That was nearly 30 years ago.
Simonds looks comical on the field and the Indians - black people themselves - have had a go at him as a result. Big deal. It seems Andie and his tosser Captain - “Punter” - couldn’t take what they so enthusiastically give. I’ve got no sympathy for either of them or for alleged men - unworthy of the name - who comment on their opponents’ wives and families from the macho inner sanctum of little Punter’s slips cordon. I’ve always thought machismo in Australian cricket, of the Ian Chappell and Steve Waugh variety, was essentially compensatory behaviour, meant - at some unconscious level - to offset the fact that cricket is a) wrist-slashingly boring crap; and b) basically, a ladies’ game.
As for the ICC, its latest capitulation means that India now effectively runs world cricket and will Al Sharpton any and all concessions out of the world governing body when and if it suits them.
quote]However, that state has had a reputation for being a little more on the redneck side than the rest of the country.
I think this is taking it a little too far, BB77. As a fellow Australian I had no idea this was the case before you enlightened me.
For the record, I strongly support Singh’s suspension and it baffles me that some otherwise sensible people cannot distinguish between sledging and racism.
peter m, you are perfectly entitled to see a “monkey” sledge as a big deal. I don’t. I can’t see that a mentally tough international sportsman is going to be thrown off his game by something said by the opposition. If Singh did call Symonds a monkey I don’t think anyone is going to lose any sleep over it.
I suppose though that the suspension and attendant uproar is going to work wonders in getting Indian cricket crowds to behave appropriately in the future. I mean, look at the outstanding results already. Regardless, what’s said on the field should stay on the field. Either that or mike all players and suspend anyone who says anything untoward.
BB77 writes: “Meanwhile, your friend Beck has shown himself to know nothing about cricket, nothing about the issue, nothing about Australia, and nothing about Symonds - even saying he was aboriginal.”
Please, BB77 tell me how my ignorance of Symonds’ background invalidates my opinions. Your statement of fact that Symonds is readily recognized as English/West Indian is, on the other hand, racist nonsense – I’ve now asked 11 people about Symonds and not one of them picked him as English/West Indian (my 22 year-old daughter nominated Pacific Islander). Could you perhaps point out some of the more obvious distinguishing characteristics for me.
CL more than adequately covers your Queenslander smear so there’s no point in addressing that.
#22 - I fully agree with and am equally surprised that so many people can’t tell the difference between sledging and racial taunting.
I’m also surprised you were unaware of Queensland’s reputation. As I said earlier, it’s only a few years ago that the biggest bunch of wackos ever to stand for election won a big bunch of state seats in Qld for Pauline Hansen’s “One Nation’ party. (Their election, by the way, was the best thing that ever happened for the rest of Australia - it showed everybody just how dumb that lot were, without having to experience having them in our state parliaments.)
As for #21 boosting Joh, my God - that bloke gave the term ‘Right Wing’ such a bad name that it took a generation to make the rest of us feel clean again. Sure, he gave Gough a bad time, but he also stopped Howard being PM ten years earlier than when he eventually got the gig. He was corrupt and an idiot and would have ended up in jail if there hadn’t been a rigged jury.
Dan - you can blame Pauline for that bit of discriminatory generlisation against Qld.
BB - the vision where he says monkey has Tendulkar standing right beside him looking at him. Sorry, but Sachin is mud as far as I am concerned.
People say that it was 5 Aust versus 2 Indians. They all gave evidence, but Proctor found “beyond reasonable doubt” he said it. Says a lot for his impression of the veracity of the evidence of Harbhajan and Sachin.
Well now, the Indians have got their umpire out of the way, got an appeal “pending”, meaning H Singh can play if it isn’t heard before Perth, and got their pet sri lankan match ref appointed who stuck the boot into Hair.
I can see where this is all leading ....
And I didn’t say all Queenslanders are racist. However…
At that point I stopped reading and began wondering what faggot state you’re from, twinkle toes.Today’s been jolly good fun, especially watching the Indian PR machine spinning like an ungoverned turbine trying to get out from under the whole sorry monkey business.
My personal favourite was the “It’s cultural” defense, which should make any octogenarian German expatriots living in Brazil, pining for the good old days, feel a little better.It is also pretty obvious from some of the bullshit being spouted that some loquacious commenters have never held a cricket bat or bowled a ball, and certainly have never taken the option of donning black trousers and a white shirt at any level, much less at first class or international.
They saw a game on TV once or twice, and listed to Tony and Ian, so that makes up for any basic knowledge of the game, of course. After all, Tone and Chappeli are professionals.
The BCCI are blackmailers, and the ICC are their bitches.
Forever.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 06:42 AM • permalinkGod Beck, you are a worry.
The point is, Australian Aboriginals are distinct, proud, and clearly recognisable race. Symonds looks nothing like an aboriginal. Yes, you might, just might, mistake Symonds for a Pacific Islander, but it would be only for a moment - physically very different. Tell me, can you tell the difference between someone from Japan and someone from China? Most people can, they’re very different, but you probably can’t.
There’s nothing racist about recognising racial differences, just as there’s nothing sexist about recognising differences between men and women.
The point, and I’m amazed you haven’t picked it up yet, is that Symonds did not complain, did not whinge, did play on and did continue to compete strongly. THE LAWS OF THE COMPETITION MADE IT COMPULSORY FOR PONTING TO TELL THE UMPIRES THAT A RACIST COMMENT AFTER IT HAD BEEN MADE - AND IT WAS HAYDEN THAT TOLD HIM THE COMMENT HAD BEEN MADE, NOT SYMONDS.HAD HE NOT DONE SO, HE WOULD HAVE SUBJECT TO A PENALTY HIMSELF IF WORD GOT OUT, WHICH IT WOULD.
Okay, got that? Good.
Now go to #24 where I explain how Qld has long had a reputation for redneckness, as exemplified by the election of a bunch of hard core One Nation racists less than a decade ago.
Anything else you need explained, feel free to ask.
Just imagine if it had been an Australian player racially taunting an Indian player. Would of probably sparked off WW3 at this point.
Posted by Aging Gamer on 2008 01 08 at 06:47 AM • permalinkSorry Peter m, but my viewing of the footage makes it look like most of the conversation happens halfway up the pitch, ten yards away from Tendulkar. Maybe you have a better link. I’d prefer to think Tendulkar has missed the key part of the conversation and is merely mistaken, rather than lying to protect his team mate.
#22, 24, yes I am fully aware of Pauline Hanson and the history of the One Nation party in QLD. Yet I’ve never seen any evidence nor heard that Queensland is perceived by other Australians as slightly more redneck. Unless you can provide evidence, I do believe it is a presumption that you are making. Especially in light of recent and very public racist incidents in other states.
J F Beck: please clarify: do you tolerate racist behaviour in sport, or do you believe this was not intended as a racist remark?
Symonds should take a leaf out of Big Artie’s book - existentially authored in the Deep North - and man the hell up:
The game today is certainly tough and physical. The players are bigger, stronger, faster and fitter, but with all due respect, the game I played was brutal. We were more often recognised as boxers due to the scars on our head and face. There was the traditional softening up period – it was almost a law of the jungle or survival of the fittest type mentality – and if you were to shy away, they’d only belt you more.
Racism has never been an issue for me, although my first fight at school when I was five was over racism. There was never a lot of name-calling throughout my career and my philosophy was that if people resorted to this you had their measure and those making the threats were scared themselves. There were Pommies, Greeks and Italians who played the game and I guess there was a bit of the “wog” thing, but people laughed it off. People’ve become too thin-skinned these days. They’ve lost the ability to laugh at themselves.
Sorry Dan J, either you’re from Qld yourself, or you’re very young. Down here, in Victoria, we’ve always marveled at how the equator seems to play such an important role in these things - the further south you go in north America, the more redneck they get; the further north you go in Australia, ditto.
Seriously, you’ve never heard that?
Do a quick survey at work tomorrow of everyone over 40 and ask them which Australian state has a reputation for being slightly more redneck. See how you go. God, it may only be people like me who remember Joh and Russ Hinz who think that way.
#30
That’s why it’s been such a hoot.
All the delicate, politically correct regulations to protect the teams from the sub continent from evil racist Australians have had unintended consequences.
All players should have the decency and honour not to resort to racist slurs, however as BB 77
has pointed out, those rules don’t allow any CDF.
#36
Ah, Victoria.
If you need any money or food parcels, just holler.#37 I’d like Symonds on my side in a pub fight too. Provided the nitwit hadn’t taken off his Mammy Face, he’d have all concerned on the floor laughing before you could say Tripitaka.
God, it may only be people like me who remember Joh and Russ Hinz who think that way.
If you remembered the Colossus of Roads at all, you pretentious dunce, you might actually know how to spell his name. Ask anyone with a more literate and deep knowledge of history and you might find that Bob Askin and Neville Wran lived and reigned south of the Tweed.
Pauline Hanson? Pfft. She wasn’t exactly an original. Again, hayseed Sydney-siders got there first.
Dan J, while I’m not exactly an anti-racism campaigner I am anti-racist. I do not find comments passed between players on the cricket ground a worry, however. For one thing, where is the line to be drawn? Without detailed knowledge of every player’s circumstances it’s impossible to know what an individual player might find offensive, with a seemingly innocent remark proving quite hurtful.
As far as I’m concerned professional sportsmen and women can say whatever they want to each other on the field. It’s just not something that concerns me. It does worry me, however, that situations like this one will encourage people that they are doing the right thing by appealing to a higher authority to intervene on their behalf. You know, so and so was mean to me, please help me. Better yet, let’s call in the lawyers.
Ah yes. Biz as usual at the ICC. Not only have they capitluated, they’ve bent over-grabbed their ankles and told the BCCI to be rough with them.
As for that child abusing prick Roebuck, he can get fucked. I’d buy the cunt a one-way ticket back to England but I don’t want the stupid fuck anywhere near me.
His swipe at Hayden for making the crucifix upon reaching 100 was truly disgusting. He was basically saying that Hayden was using his religion to racially bully international opposition because he doesn’t do it when scoring a 1st class century. That fact that Hayden might consider Test centuries reason to give thanks, over and above 1st class centuries was not even considered.
Hayden should sue him.
As for the comment about Singh being a Seikh warrior: it’s obvious that Roebuck wants to be fucked by him.
I am looking forward to the weekend papers, when Traceeeee will rant that this is all a conspiracy to distract Australians from Chinese ships dredging Melbourne for steel.
Or whatever.
Posted by mr creosote on 2008 01 08 at 08:01 AM • permalinkThanks CL
I should clarify my position here.
On the basis of personal experience and anecdotes from trusted sources, I think Symonds, Ponting and Hayden ARE arrogant.
However, to single them out for opprobrium whilst ignoring the indiscretions of Indian players just shits me.
Also, I fucking-well resent having cricket, with the blessing the ICC, systematically ruined by these bastards who use racism and victimhood to get their way.
Wow this thread has got to be the most heated I have ever read on this site. Time for my 2 cents:
I am currently and have in the past lived in Far North Queensland and I can concur with BB about the redneck factor. I have come across far more up here than I have ever in the rest of Australia and I have been around a bit. Don’t get me wrong - I like the people up here they are genuine and down to earth but every now and then you come across a couple…......
I cannot agree on the one nation ticket though - I knew Len Harris personally through the gold mine we both worked at and spent many an hour drinking at his “tavern” and found him to be very agreeable and never heard a comment or opinion from him that could be considered to be what you consider to be one nationist for want of a better phrase.
I completely agree with the comment about cotnrasting the reaction of Australian and Indian fans to misfortune. Sure we get steamed up when things dont go our way or if there are some dodgy umpiring and the like but we suck it up and try harder next time once we have had our whinge. I remember suffering through the Border years watching us getting flogged but we always stepped back into the ring regardless. Certainly you don’t see the burning of effigies and calling for execution behaviour. Also I noticed when watching matches in India the response from the crowd to a brilliant stroke/century/wicket by an opposing player is met with almost silence. However if something happens that goes there way it distorts the speakers on your television. Not a good sign in my book.
Ok flame away.
Really, this is the biggest non-story since the world’s fair that wasn’t.
Yup, Murph, that just about explains my take on the subject as well. The bigger and sadder story is the astonishing ease with which the Sub-Continent is successfully race-hustling the ICC. It’s all very Islamist as modus operandi. We’ve seen such international contretemps before, of course (1932–33, 1981 etc), but it’s no exaggeration to say that part of the sub-continent’s clout with the ICC these days derives from the ever-present threat of rioting and violence.
Harbahjan the “Sikh warrior” (according to Spanky the Bum Bandit)
Bwaaahhhahahahah!
I know some real warriors who would chew that knobhead up for morning tea and spit out the gristly bits.
BCCI = blackmailers (successful, too). Where’s all the TV heroes who have been moaning about “fair go”?
Wouldn’t be worried about their pay packet in front of their principles, would they?Say it ain’t so, Mr Chappeli, Mr Greig.
Once again, Richie Benaud shows the oafs who work around him what true class is all about with his measured and insightful public comments.
A bit like JWH in many ways, and probably looking at the same future in retirement after supporting the Australian captain and the team in the face of all the poo flinging idiots from the sports media, particularly Fairfax. (Why am I not surprised)?
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 08:18 AM • permalinkMy goodness, why can’t cricketers just have a good bench clearing brawl to sort these things out?
Posted by dean martin on 2008 01 08 at 08:29 AM • permalinkYour link at #51 is a dud, JF.
Bit like the statement about the current cricket “non event”.
But I forgive you, because you have armed me with many good arguments about the banning of DDT. Stick with your area of expertise, you retain my respect.
(Not that you should give a rat’s arse about that anyway)
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 08:32 AM • permalinkWithout detailed knowledge of every player’s circumstances it’s impossible to know what an individual player might find offensive, with a seemingly innocent remark proving quite hurtful.
That is indeed a grey area. However, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Andrew Symonds did tell Harbahjan before-hand that he considered the remarks racist, and with reasonable grounds. This is clear-cut.
As far as I’m concerned professional sportsmen and women can say whatever they want to each other on the field.
You’ve given me a lot of room to move here. I think we need to consider very carefully what the consequences would be if society took your lead and openly condoned outright racial abuse on the field.
Thanks for the link, Murph.
I wasn’t game to go near a Fairfax site without an escort in case I threw this pearl white marvel of technology in the nearby river.
As it stands, I am amazed.
Lots of Sydney’s inner city latte sipper addresses, as well.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 09:39 AM • permalinkJeez, JF, Stop digging.
There is no other sport in the world where opponents stand single digit metres from each other for days on end and are given the opportunity to think up a good sledge every five minutes.
“Sledging” was born with the game of cricket, and it is done for a reason. Doesn’t matter whether you (or I) agree with it or not, it will continue at every level from the beach to the international arena.
What some people don’t seem to understand is that there are limits and boundaries on what is an acceptable sledge, and what is over the top.
When you play the game, you learn from an early age just what is acceptable, and you also learn not to fall in a tearful heap because somebody at second slip says you hold a bat like a girl.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 09:56 AM • permalinkPedro, what a load of crap. If any sport lends itself to sledging it’s gridiron: the players are out there trying to knock the crap out of each other and have plenty of free time in which to think of stuff to say but it’s not a big problem (as far as I know, anyway). Is there no gridiron sledging or are players just sucking it up and getting on with the game? (When I as in high school the coach told us not to say stupid stuff to the opposition because it would more likely motivate rather than dispirit.)
..cont.
the only difference is that it’s not considered a problem in those sports because it’s only in cricket where certain players from certain countries go on like precious little prize-fucking-pork-chops and go sooking to the administrators. And it’s only in cricket where the sport’s governing body has debased itself by kow-towing to imbecilic retards and professional victims.
Oh lordy, I just can’t seem to think of a single incident of sledging in American football.
Probably because I watched about ten minutes of it TV sometime in the mid ‘80’s for the first and only time, and I really, really don’t know anything about the game.
Therefore I can’t and don’t comment on the amount of sledging, racism, bone crunching heroics, tactics, coaches, players, opponents etc etc.
I’m Ignorant.
Posted by Pedro the Ignorant on 2008 01 08 at 10:33 AM • permalinkmurph, you know, this is a lot like primary school. You remember how there was always at least one kid in every class who was continually crying to the teacher about how so and so had said something mean to him. These appeals always feel on deaf ears; if the teacher had heard anything there was no need to tell her, she’d act unprompted. But did you notice that the teacher eventually got tired of the little squealer and became less and less likely to hear the naughty things said to him? Maybe she thought the little bastard was getting what was coming to him.
Really, all concerned need to pull their heads in, start acting like professionals and get on with it. Either that or find another line of work.
It is never okay to call a black man a monkey.
Never.
A white man claiming that using the term is not racist would be rightly scorned, the Indians should not get away with it just because they aren’t white.
Posted by cyclosarin on 2008 01 08 at 11:17 AM • permalinkMeanwhile, a racism hearing against Australian spinner Brad Hogg will also go ahead, after the Indians alleged he called captain Anil Kumble a “bastard” in Sydney
LMAO - how long before just bowling one of the precious princesses out will be considered racist? They should consider playing woman’s cricket instead.
#63 murph
#60 They sledge in baseball, water-polo, rugby league, ice hockey, rugby union etc etc etc….
When I played organized baseball “sledging” was called “ragging” or just plain “chatter”. It has always been part of the game—a tradition, even. In adult amateur or semi-pro leagues it can be brutal… and often hilarious.
Posted by Spiny Norman on 2008 01 08 at 02:28 PM • permalinkAm I the only person on the planet to not realise that Symonds is “black”?
I thought he was just reasonably well tanned from standing out in the middle of a paddock all day.
Yes, he’s got dreads - but so does my sister. Yes, he is a nice colour, but the rest of my family, which is of celtic ancestory, goes darker after about 5 minutes in the sun.
As for the zinc cream, if that is part of his mental preparation for a game, I can understand why he would never stop wearing it.
I’d like to hear some of the sledging that goes on when India plays Pakistan. That would be a hoot.
Posted by mr creosote on 2008 01 08 at 03:51 PM • permalinkICC shafts Bucknor.
Easy, knowing how much they back their umpires since Darryl Hair.
Next? I predict Proctor [and so Ponting] will be undermined for following the ICC’s own rulings properly -Harbhajan will be cleared on appeal and the whole behaviour tribunal system will collapse.
Why? they don’t trust their umpires and they won’t accept the word of players from only one side. [ie. Aussie players are all liars]And the BCCI says the tour is still on ‘for the present’ but ‘the baseless accusations’ must be removed. [Another clear threat]
Result- potential cricket chaos.
Ian Chappell talks sense about getting past the pathetic nationalist make-up of the ICC - but exactly HOW?I’m afraid J F Beck is proving himself a paleo-conservative on this issue, about which he knows nothing - proven by accepting the view of mates that Symonds is aboriginal - and his ignorance about all the background to Sydney.
‘Queenslanders are racists by nature’ is simply appalling prejudice and unworthy stuff.
Why do you defend him, MentalFloss?.The saddest thing is that the ICC, made up of mostly non-whites and ex-colonials, are handling a racist issue very badly.
I predict Proctor [and so Ponting’s whole team] will be shafted next in the same way Bucknor was.
The ICC have problems will anyone obeying their own directives. Who do they actually trust now umpires and players aren’t?Ian Chappell talks sense about getting past the pathetic nationalist make-up of the ICC - but exactly HOW?
How about getting some Americans and Canadians to run the ICC? They don’t have a vested interest. If the sub-continent whinges that they’re white, then how about Japanese, Koreans, Thais, South Americans and Africans from non-cricketing countries?
What has happened in this blog is that a lot of people who normally recognise reverse racism for what it is have now let their bizarre bias against the Australian cricket team blur their normally clear visioin. Most of you can see it’s hypocrisy when muslims can say and do what they like, but westerners are attacked for even a hint of negativity about Islam. Yet now a blatant bit of racism and grandstanding by the Indian team is all deemed to be the ‘white’ team’s fault. It’s odd. A few people here need to step back and take a good look at themselves.
#80 Let me set the record straight for you, Barrie (and BB7 and Harold).
I was not defending anyone.
I was attacking those whose very first response to another’s comment is ad hominem abusive—I repeat, their first response.
I’m just not used to it happening here, in this place (except to trolls whose first post is often inviting of such disdain).
Once the parties are well and truly engaged, I suppose all bets are off and let the epithets fall where they may—but a person should be given the courtesy of a reasonable response before the gloves come off.
That’s all, really.
I love cricket—loved it since I first watched it 15 years ago. I read every book, memoir, or article on cricket I can get my hands on.
I even played that very odd form of the game—indoor cricket—for a while until my thumbs broke one too many times (I was ‘keeper) and I gave it up so as not to waste forty-five years of guitar playing.
My views on the matter here under discussion were made early on in the thread and are no longer germane to the issue.
Posted by MentalFloss on 2008 01 08 at 06:54 PM • permalinkBrad Hogg charged with offence under ICC’s Code of Conduct
Hogg is accused of making an offensive remark to India captain Anil Kumble and vice-captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni during India’s second innings on Sunday.
[..]The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”.
Ridiculous tit for tat from India…
#63
“They sledge in baseball, water-polo, rugby league, ice hockey, rugby union etc etc etc….”
I got called a “Skippy Bastard” by an Indian opponent in an on-line Scrabble game last week. Does that count as sledging?
Posted by spot_the_dog on 2008 01 08 at 08:11 PM • permalinkWay back at #206 J.F.Beck is whinging that people with whom he works call him a “seppo” and regard him as stupid then at #212 J.F. decides that Andrew Symonds is an Aboriginal because the people with whom he works confirmed his own erroneous opinion.I have no idea how long J.F.has worked with these jokers but it obviously hasn’t been long enough for him to wake up to the fact that when Australians see someone determined to make a complete fool of themselves they sometimes think it amusing to help.It’s not only good fun but reinforces their opinion that the victim is indeed a fool.Whatever you do J.F. do not agree to purchase the Harbour Bridge from these people.
This will take a long long time to be resolved I fear. At the heart of this issue is the powerful hand of the BCCI and the crushed testicles of the ICC…
The underlying issues are not being dealt with.
.... and as for India being Holier than Thou! Hmmmm!
Flaming heck! You go away to make love, come back 15 hours later and all hell has broken out. Couple of commentators seem to be as confused as a blind lezzo at a tuna cannery.
These are the facts: India are a nation of panty waisted, dummy spitting, lip dropping toddlers who couldn’t beat the Dapto U12’s. Australia are, were and always will be the greatest cricketing nation on earth. Forever and ever, no returns, infinity plus one. End of fucking lesson.
Posted by Infidel Tiger on 2008 01 08 at 09:05 PM • permalinkA couple of thoughts from a cricket-loving Englishman.
i) we (the English) would give our right-eye for a captain of the quality of Ricky Ponting
ii) we would forgive any manner of gloating, excessive sportsmanship or sledging if we could produce a team as good as Australia. Hell, Collingwood, Flintoff and Vaughny could be cross-dressers and flashers if they could bat like Gilly and Haydo.
iii) the match referee insisted that all racist comments be reported. Ponting had no choice.
iv) the Aussie cricket team are appalling sledgers and bad sportsmen. so what. you win every Test you play. and you still winge about your team (only 30% of SNH readers disagreed with Roebuck to my utter astonishment). some people are never pleased.
v) you also just voted out of office a guy who has presided over an economy that is the envy of the planet. because it is, err, ‘time for a change’.
strange country indeed.
Posted by pommygranate on 2008 01 09 at 02:21 AM • permalinkdeanosumo - here’s your man Harbhajan, the epitomy of fairness and good sportsmanship.
Are you a troll or just a cricket dickhead? Over to you blue leader
Posted by Whale Spinor on 2008 01 09 at 10:45 AM • permalink#91: every elephant jockey on the planet, from Calcutta to White Plains, NY, has been, in between effigy burning sessions, flooding message boards and tilting internet polls.
So obvious, murph. I was amazed that a smart guy like Gideon Haigh seemed to think the papers’ polls were kosher, and reflected Aussie opinion… very naive.
‘I’d like to hear some of the sledging that goes on when India plays Pakistan. That would be a hoot’.
Doesn’t happen, mr creosote. They are all pure sportsmen, whose countries get along fine despite their ‘cultural differences’.Besides, they speak different languages and so can get away with any unpleasant jibes. [sarcasm]
Besides, saying anything against Mr Tendulkar could lead to a another shooting war..
murph
sadly many of my Aussie friends out here are undecided on the issue. it is quite impossible for me to understand why every Aussie is not 100% behind one of the most successful captains of all time.
have Aussies gone queasy on winning? or is it just against non-white nations?
Posted by pommygranate on 2008 01 09 at 08:11 PM • permalinkAustralians are odd. No matter what our cricket team does, there’ll always be 50% of cricket followers who think our bowlers are rubbish, the bats are over-rated, we’re only winning because everyone else is crap, and we’re just very, very lucky. after almost 20 years of non-stop winning, this stuff comes out all the time. And if we keep winning despite being such rubbish, well then the team’s behavior is terrible. Maybe it’s tall poppy syndrome, maybe it’s this thing of supporting the underdog, or maybe they’re just all idiots - I don’t get it. In a couple of decades, people will say to us, “Gee, you watched guys like Warne, Gillchrist, Pontng and McGrath” It’ll be like the Bradman thing. Maybe then we’ll begin to appreciate what we’ve got.
Final example. When we added Australia A to the one day series here one year, so Australia played Australia A, who did everyone cheer for? Yep. Says it all, really.
I don’t watch cricket but seeing the news footage of the bad umpire decisions - I can understand why the Indian team got upset. As for the partisan gamemanship, well, it happens yeah? It happens all the time, like in soccer where a player will roll around the grass faking pure agony to grab the referee’s attention. Its pussy sports. But this isn’t high school games - its the million dollar game, so you can understand the pressure to win at any cost. So why not cut thru the crap, and use a third umpire with access to cameras to make the final call?
Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2008 01 10 at 10:24 AM • permalink
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Strewth! Much like Dean Jones double hundred at Madras in ‘86 this thread has decided to shit its pants and vomit everywhere.