DEATH DODGED

John Howard gets results:

Two Australian men on death row in Vietnam for drug trafficking have escaped execution.The Vietnamese President said he had granted the pair clemency after lobbying from the Prime Minister, John Howard.

Speaking of the death penalty, please take this Bulletin survey.

UPDATE. In earlier Left-friendly Howard news:

Paul Keating had left office in 1996 with Arabs accounting for 7.7 per cent of our immigration intake. Howard lifted their share to a record 10.5 per cent in 2004-05.

Posted by Tim B. on 02/17/2006 at 10:42 PM
    1. Paul Keating had left office in 1996 with Arabs accounting for 7.7 per cent of our immigration intake. Howard lifted their share to a record 10.5 per cent in 2004-05.

      Geez, I hope they’re Arab Christians.

      Posted by Oafish and Infantile on 2006 02 17 at 11:00 PM • permalink

 

    1. Is this 10.5% literate enough to read and react to cartoons?

      Posted by perfectsense on 2006 02 17 at 11:04 PM • permalink

 

    1. But wait, isn’t Howard supposed to be some kind of ur-racist?

      Posted by Achillea on 2006 02 17 at 11:31 PM • permalink

 

    1. If thats so Howard should be bloody well ashamed.

      Posted by dee on 2006 02 18 at 12:08 AM • permalink

 

    1. Do Muslim nations have jury duty? How do they define truths in a law system?

      Is this law system based on the Islamic principles overseas?

      Such laws from their religon are wanting to be introduced into british law, for example, I read recently they want to be able to marry more than one woman. So how do we define truth?

      Posted by 1.618 on 2006 02 18 at 12:10 AM • permalink

 

    1. #3 yes indeedy – this evil. xenophobic, callous PM has not only lifted the non-european migration rate, but also accepted record numbers of refugees.  the jooooos made him take more arabs & asians

      Posted by KK on 2006 02 18 at 12:10 AM • permalink

 

    1. Geez, I hope they’re Arab Christians.

      Disproportionally, they are. From what I gather, our Arab immigration is mainly Lebanese, and up until recently, was predominantly non-Islamic.

      Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 18 at 12:22 AM • permalink

 

    1. Any one of any tribe who wants to practise polygamy has to be forty cents short of a dollar anyway.
      Having trodden the marital path a few times , I can state it is hard enough to put up with ONE person at a time, let alone of mob of ‘em.
      Maybe it explains a lot about muslims.

      Posted by waussie on 2006 02 18 at 12:25 AM • permalink

 

    1. And for everyone who gets excited about the increase by 40% of people professing to be Muslims, I’d like to point out that Hinduism increased by 42% and Buddhism increased by 80% in the same period.

      Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 18 at 12:27 AM • permalink

 

    1. Oh, and “inadequately described” was up by 36%.

      Hail the Church of the Inadequately described!

      Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 18 at 12:28 AM • permalink

 

    1. Golden Ratio (#5),

      Under Sharia, there are a prescribed number of witnesses (two Muslim men, or one Muslim man and two Muslim women).  If the number is not met, the defendant must take an oath swearing that they did not commit the crime.  But if you’re not a Muslim, you can’t take the oath.

      And, yes, it is the procedure followed in many Islamic countries, e.g. http://www.arab.net/saudi/sa_shariabiz.htm

      Posted by 2dogs on 2006 02 18 at 12:34 AM • permalink

 

    1. So when’s this survey going to be published? Did anyone else just lose faith in opinion polling after realising that the results are going to be skewed by a hundred odd Tim Blair readers?

      PS: Save the smackheads, kill the terrorists.

      Posted by AussieJim on 2006 02 18 at 12:50 AM • permalink

 

    1. #12
      PS: Save the smackheads, kill the terrorists.

      Let’s do both!

      —Nora

      Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 18 at 01:07 AM • permalink

 

    1. “Europe stayed out of Iraq, but it is the epicentre of the West’s grassroots backlash against Muslim immigration.”

      “Europe” stayed out of Iraq? Such an ignorant statement. And notice the reflexive casting of the “backlash” being due to “Iraq”, iow Bush and America.

      Posted by theoclitus on 2006 02 18 at 01:07 AM • permalink

 

    1. Er I should clarify,

      Let the smackheads get the penalty they deserve (which happens to be death in Indonesia) and kill the terrorists as well.

      —Nora

      Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 18 at 01:09 AM • permalink

 

    1. I took the survey (voted no of course) and here is my comment;

      civilised countries look at what is behind crime and work in the framework of Kholberg’s stages of moral development. Uncivilised countries work on a very childish ‘deterrence’ policy. Unless you addres the underlying causes of crime not even the most brutal torture will prevent it.

      Posted by Narnian1 on 2006 02 18 at 01:25 AM • permalink

 

    1. Narnia -some people right now believe that it only we had TALKED to the Japanese
      they would have stopped taking over South East Asia,said sorry and gone home…
      Truly a staggeringly stupid belief but many confirmed ideologically hard line people honestly believe it.
      Not only that but they are PROUD to believe in it…..Sl o/t
      News today “The Socialist Youth Organization in Australia wants to sell hundreds of FLAG BURNING kits to universities next week…
      Needless to say not derived from ABC sources.

      Posted by crash on 2006 02 18 at 01:49 AM • permalink

 

    1. I took the surey and voted yes, but of course in each questions there weren’t exactly the types of response u would like to actually give, so had to choose the closest one that applied…  i do believe in “what goes around, comes around” sometimes, but of course its a much more complicated question than that…

      and in terms of howard letting more people in from arab backgrounds, i have to say its a nice thought to be able to excpet people in terms of their needs and individual merits…  but i think its time to stop being so egalitarian and look which groups we are letting in, what level of assimilation to aussie culture they are attempting to make, and what level of trouble are they causing, and then let this information feed back into the approval system for future immigrantion approvals….

      i don’t live in NSW where these lebanese problems seem to be particularly accute, but then there are subsets of the lebanese with christians and muslims and one might be more troublesome than the other, etc…

      but in general, i think its fair to say we shouldn’t unilaterally ban people from certain communities or backgrounds on a whim, but if we find no attempt to contribute to Australia and its culture or learn the language or they preach hate etc, people from these sorts of groups/nationalities etc are going to have a tougher time getting their relatives and other members of their former homeland to be allowed to come out here…  or the checks will be a bit more stringent….  sort of like a bit of a good behaviour bond…

      Posted by casanova on 2006 02 18 at 01:58 AM • permalink

 

    1. In other Fairfax reporting:

      After John Howard’s overseas interference, as Mai Cong Thanh and Nguyen Van Chinh returned to their cells, to eat rice and cockroaches for the rest of their lives in prison, their only comment was “Not Happy John”.

      Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 02 18 at 02:04 AM • permalink

 

    1. Not a bad survey, but I qualified mine with the death penalty being used only for the most extreme of the major crimes.

      Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 18 at 03:05 AM • permalink

 

    1. It is ridiculous that PC people have foist a notion of non-discriminatory immigration policy on us. Discrimination is good.

      Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 18 at 03:16 AM • permalink

 

    1. All this talk of Death and Mussies makes me wonder………

      ….If the geniuses who flew the planes into the World Trade Centre changed the name on the planes to “Virgin Airlines”

      ….If there are only virgins in paradise why would that excite you? It’s like going to an art gallery…you can look but….

      …..If it’s martyr time to die for the cause and paradise awaits…why’d they get so pissed off when their leaders get blown away?

      Do suicide bombers have a Bombmitzvah and are they circumspect 8 days after birth?

      Do Mussies wish people long life after a bereavement, like we do…if so…why?

      Is a Mussie Kamikaze pilot allowed to watch cartoons on a practise flight?

      Posted by Mike 101 on 2006 02 18 at 03:31 AM • permalink

 

    1. Casanova

      The lebanese Christian community in Sydney is larger than the lebanese muslim community – but you never hear from them. They are too busy working, running small businesses and raising families. The lebanese gangs you hear of (the Telopea St Boys etc) are exclusively Muslim, extremely violent, and deeply involved in heroin and methamphetamine trades. TO my knowledge, there are no Lebanese Christian criminal gangs – of course there are certainly Lebanese Christian criminals, hoons and idiots. Just the usual level in any group.

      The present crop of problems originated in the late 80s (thanks, Hawkie, you bastard!!), when about 12,000 young Lebanese Shiite males were let in. They came from the southern Bekaa, mostly. Yup. Hisballah to the core, and deeply involved in the heroin smuggling trade, they brought ALL the contacts to Saudi money and Wahabism, and heroin importation from the ME soared after they came in.

      Islam, to those bastards, is a mental disease, infecting mental defectives. The Lebanese Christians normally marry between clans, the lebanese muslims mary within them, there is a lot of inbreeding at 1st cousin level. Do that for a thousand years or so and you get some real problems – like parts of Tasmania only more so. They re-activated the sort of persecution the Maronites came out here to escape, and which (after a millennia of being dhimmis) they are congenitally unable to organise together to fight effectively.

      So Christian Arabs (Maronites, Melkites, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Copts etc) integrate perfectly well in to Australian society except for the ‘background noise’ level of the usual level of criminality one finds with any ethnic group.

      But wahabist islam is NOT an ethnicity, but a politico-religious conquest ideology. Like Nazi ideology, only worse.

      The answer? Bring in every Arab Christian we can find, these are smart people who work hard and integrate well. But do NOT let in Arab muslims. Not one. They are the one inflicting horrible persecutiuon on Arab Christians right now, so screw them.

      And nobody can make any accusation of racism on that basis. Won’t stop the lefties of course, but they will whine no matter what anyway.

      South-east Asian muslims are also very different to Arab ones, they tend to be pretty quiet people who just want to get along. Just avoid radicalised groups, vet the mad mullahs (kick out the radicals) and monitor the mosques.

      MarkL
      Canberra

      Posted by MarkL on 2006 02 18 at 03:49 AM • permalink

 

    1. Narnia -some people right now believe that it only we had TALKED to the Japanese

      What? I thought we were talking about individuals who commit crimes, not a war strategy!

      Posted by Narnian1 on 2006 02 18 at 04:23 AM • permalink

 

    1. #17 Crash – “News today “The Socialist Youth Organization in Australia wants to sell hundreds of FLAG BURNING kits to universities next week…”

      Am struggling to find more information about this – I assume it’s to coincide with the first full week back for uni students, but has there been any information on where/when any mass flag burning would be carried out?

      Have a number of people who would like to have a little “talk” with those burning our flag.

      Posted by Mr Brightside on 2006 02 18 at 04:34 AM • permalink

 

    1. sounds like a plan MarkL

      Posted by casanova on 2006 02 18 at 05:02 AM • permalink

 

    1. #25. … have a little “talk”… or bring along some other flags – oh, lets say the Aboriginal Flag*? – to spice things up a bit?

      *Oh, in honour of Mardi Gras, perhaps a Rainbow Gay flag?

      Posted by Brett_McS on 2006 02 18 at 05:13 AM • permalink

 

    1. Narnian1,

      It’s called the “death penalty”, not the “death deterrent”. (Clue in the name).

      Posted by Stone Cold on 2006 02 18 at 05:15 AM • permalink

 

    1. I voted no to the death penalty. To rationally decide to kill someone is so cold, evil even. A murder in the heat of the moment for selfish reasons is less objectionable to me than a rational decision to end a persons life for even the best of reasons.

      Posted by HF22 on 2006 02 18 at 06:46 AM • permalink

 

    1. Stone Cold it may be the “Death Penalty” but if Beckham takes it he’ll miss…

      Posted by Mike 101 on 2006 02 18 at 06:48 AM • permalink

 

    1. Can’t wait to hear what Bob Brown and Kerry Nettle have to say

      It’ll be interesting to see the results of the poll. Unfortunately, on occasion, people are wrongly convicted, and the death penalty, as it stands, can’t be reversed. (By that I mean, once you’re dead, you’re dead. Not like in that Arnie move “The Sixth Day”.) Also, it does seem somewhat barbaric (however, if someone I loved was in a nightclub in Kuta on Oct 12 2002, maybe I’d change my mind).

      I can’t help but feel sorry for drug traffickers (after all, they don’t force people to OD), but I certainly have no sympathy for the Bali bombers, or that crazy Iraqi bloke currently on trial.

      Posted by Humblogger (the Younger) on 2006 02 18 at 06:51 AM • permalink

 

    1. #10 Quentin,
      At the last census, there was a bit of a campaign to list your religion as ‘Vulcan’, or was it ‘Klingon’.  Can’t quite remember…..anyway, I wonder how many of the “inadequately described” really belonged in the j”uvenile joker” category

      Posted by entropy on 2006 02 18 at 07:49 AM • permalink

 

    1. #32. Entropy,
      It was to list your religion as Jedi.

      Unfortunately the government’s sense of humour didn’t go so far as to take it seriously.

      Posted by Humblogger (the Younger) on 2006 02 18 at 07:56 AM • permalink

 

    1. I take it back, they did take it seriously:

      If your belief system is “Jedi” then answer as such on the census form. But if you would normally answer Anglican or Jewish or Buddhist or something else to the question “what is your religion?” and for the census you answer “Jedi” then this may impact on social services provision if enough people do the same.

      Posted by Humblogger (the Younger) on 2006 02 18 at 08:04 AM • permalink

 

    1. To my knowledge, there are no Lebanese Christian criminal gangs

      Of course there are. Only, they’re called lawyers 🙂

      Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 02 18 at 10:02 AM • permalink

 

    1. I took the survey and voted “no”. Too many people who are convicted of capital crimes are later found to be innocent (I think I read somewhere that 6% (or so) of executed felons are innocent – someone will correct me if my memory is wrong :-). Hard labour for life in a tough prison setting would be my replacement for the death penalty. None of this pansy-@ss softly-softly treatment that we give serious offenders in Oz. At least if you don’t execute them and they’re found to be innocent later you can let them out. It’s for the sake of the wrongly-convicted that I oppose the death penalty; I don’t give a flying f**k about the ones who really are guilty. A related link:

      Here

      In other news – from 7.7% to 10.5%? WTF?! Obviously it isn’t just the Muslims who are freaking insane. I am constantly embarrassed by the stupidity of our elected officials (although you think I’d be used to it by now). I am now officially suspicious of anyone who professes to be Islamic. Given that their leaders seem to say one thing to the West and one thing to their congregations, I’d be banning all of them from gaining admittance to Australia until the whole “War on Terror” ends. Call me racist/bigoted/arrogant, but if you do it my way then at least the next generation of Australians won’t be calling me infidel and executing victims of rape for adultery.

      Posted by Mr Snuffalupagus on 2006 02 19 at 10:24 AM • permalink

 

    1. Crash, just reading thru the thread and got to your comment on flag burning. Did you hear ABC Brisbane 612 this am (18/2/) and that nitwit from Resistance about the flag burning kits?

      Posted by kae on 2006 02 19 at 10:51 PM • permalink

 

    1. #18 Casanove

      Cronulla riots protest = feedback!

      Posted by kae on 2006 02 19 at 10:53 PM • permalink

 

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